Ep215: Want to Know the Real LDS Attendance Stats?

[@luannwinters9345]

I’m so sorry about you getting shingles. I actually got shingles when I was 24 years old and it was the worst disease I EVER had. Hope you get feeling better soon! 😪

[@cleedix]

I’m 43 and got shingles last summer. I first thought it was back pain, then bed bugs, so by the time I got a shingles diagnosis and a prescription for antivirals I was relieved to know what was going on. I didn’t know you could get it in your face. It was painful enough in my back, I can imagine getting it in my face. I hope you get feeling better soon.

[@ginafrancis4950]

I had a friend where it attacked the left side of face- eye inside his ear and down his neck. The most painful thing ever. Had NOT gotten the vaccine and was 58.

[@OOSPassie]

I had it. In my face. Sooooo painful! Could not work. Zinkointment (i.e. diaper rash ointment) helped a lot to soothe the rash. Made me look like a pierrot clown when I put it on. But stayed in bed anyways. It dried the blisters and stopped them from spreading. Get well!

[@tmaslargo7435]

While sipping my coffee (don't worry, it's half decaf and getting cold, so it's only half bad) , I just added all the wards in my stake.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

🤣 I love this!

[@boysrus61]

Skagway Alaska has 2 sacrament meetings every Sunday for morning workers and evening workers. You can go while docked there for a cruise.

[@joshhall6754]

So sorry for you! I had shingles last month on my mandibular nerve across my face and scalp, age 35. I’ve now met a number of people in my neighborhood who’ve gotten it, sometimes multiple times in their 20s and 30s. So painful, I empathize with you! Wishing you a fast recovery! Thanks for all you guys do!

[@conniejory1698]

Rebecca- my 31 year old son had shingles a couple months ago! I posted on social media something about how he is too young to get it, and learned it’s not unusual at all! 🤷‍♀️ Hope your recovery is quick 🤞🤞🤞

[@MaryKayZolezzi]

I think stress has something to do with it!

[@hollyjohnson2894]

I had shingles for the first time at 13 and then again a couple months ago at 45. This last bout lasted for about 9 weeks and I had it around the right side of my body. The entire right side of my body and my whole torso was in pain. I can't even think about it in my eye!! Sending you love and quick heading!!!

[@rosemariebennett7213]

Heal quickly, Rebecca 🙏 love you

[@pianomanchristopher]

When I was Ward Clerk, the bishop let me in on their secret way of counting attendance, which was to include all family members in the numbers if at least one member from that family was present;)

[@Gideonslc]

That's ridiculous!

[@OOSPassie]

​@@Gideonslcand 4th October the pets as well?

[@Gideonslc]

@OOSPassie why not! I know some couples with herds of dogs and / or cats! 😅😂🤣

[@jpalmer2767]

So what? That was just your ward

[@sheliabryant3997]

@jpalmer2767 Yes; "so what?" When it's completely normal to LIE. About anything. Everything

[@pigz4prez]

I had shingles this past summer at age 35! It was the most painful thing of ever experienced and was across the entire right side of my torso, back and front. It felt like every nerve ending was on fire and my skin was also crawling with ants, with no relief. Luckily it was diagnosed within 72 hours with a visit to urgent care and the anti viral medication started reducing my pain about 48 hours after that. So I know your pain Rebecca, and hope you start feeling better soon!

[@rebeccabibliotheca]

You get it! I’m glad you got the antivirals quick! I did too and I’m thinking that’s what saved me! Although here we are two weeks later and I still keep having various problems. Ha ha! I’m hoping to be fully recovered soon! Glad that you survived!!

[@sheliabryant3997]

12.10.24. Oh, Rebecca. Just watching another you made after this one and sorry to hear that you have advanced to sinus infection. Surely hope YOU can Rest and fully Recuperate. Three kitties here sitting on the balcony rail sending up 🎶🎶🎶 for you. 🌺🌺 And Landen, too.

[@slicgreendueler4884]

I hope you feel better soon, Rebecca!

[@TheSaintelias]

Get better Rebecca. Hope you feel well soon.

[@UmWhaaat]

So sorry you have shingles, Rebecca. Hope you are feeling great again soon!

[@clcole5655]

Thanks!

[@JudyKahraman]

Wishing you a speedy recovery, Rebecca!!! We miss your beautiful, and always smiling, face!!!

[@dorothymilne1258]

I got shingles on my FACE! Scarred to this day, the doctor originally diagnosed a spider bite. Sorry for you, it’s painful and uncomfortable. Old person here. Thanks for soldiering on....🌸

[@rebeccabibliotheca]

Oh my gosh, a spider bite! Ugh! And I’m so sorry there were some permanent effects!

[@claudetterush1086]

I've had shingles. It dropped me to my knees

[@rebeccabibliotheca]

That’s pretty much the most accurate description. I’ve heard so far!

[@willowtree4]

Hope you feel better soon Rebecca. So sorry. Not fun. Hang in there. 💕 Thanks to you though, I’m going to go get my shot. I just turned 50.

[@China-Clay]

I’ve had the shingles shot, and I get autoimmune problems, so really hoping I never get it

[@SharonTaylor-g5l]

I'm in the same boat. Here's to hoping.......

[@alanyoung6572]

A rough stat. My family, a very traditional conservative big mormon family .. half the family has quit going. My wife's family, a traditional big mormon family, are now less than half active. It's the young people, they are not motivated.

[@woodystube1000]

I came from a huge Mormon family on my mom’s side growing up. She had four siblings, all with 4-7 kids. EVERYONE was active LDS when I was growing up. By the time I was in my 30’s, I would estimate only about 20% of that group were active LDS. My observation is that it’s dying out. Reasons are too lengthy to list.

[@TheSaintelias]

So true. I come from a family that goes back to the first 6 months of the church forming. Of the four kids, I am one, only one still believes. The grandkids total 12. 5 believe. The church is shrinking by any data.

[@debbieshrubb1222]

In the UK it's all ages but often for different reasons.

[@robertmalachowski5151]

The Internet is The Mormon Church biggest enemy.Youbg people are very computer savvy and do their research.Does not take long to realise the church is one big con.

[@ThoughtfulRebels]

I agree, the young people are not motivated to go to a place every Sunday and be told in so many tiny ways that they aren’t making the cut. As loving as they are, sadly, the youth hear shame and guilt and “not good enough.” When they complain, they are told, “So, you just want Heavenly Father to tell you how great you’re doing-even if it’s not true?!” *THAT* kind of shaming. Not motivated to feel constantly insufficient. So if they are _not_ hearing *_THE GOOD NEWS OF CHRIST which is that YOU ARE LOVED AND WANTED JUST AS YOU ARE,_** and as young people are also aware of hypocrisy,* they prefer to stay away. Plus-it’s super boring unless you are 100.

[@bassonardo]

Oh, so sorry! I had shingles on the side of my face last year, one nerve zone over from where yours showed up. Very painful, and my doc told me i was lucky it wasn't in the eye zone. It can be dangerous in your eye, follow the doc's directions.

[@tamicox990]

I got shingles last spring in the roof of my mouth. I was away on vacation and originally thought I had just burned the roof of my mouth- but each day it got worse and worse and I was miserable. Luckily it didn’t spread and meds cleared it up pretty quickly

[@rebeccabibliotheca]

Uggg, I hear you! I’m glad you got over it!!

[@andreadiamond7115]

Hope you heal quickly Rebecca.

[@codyironworks307]

The description on the link still says home school and teaching that may explain some of the confusion when folks click on it

[@susiekathryn8570]

Rebecca… I hope you feel better soon! I had shingles on my back in 1989, right before I got married the first time. It was horrible. I feel for you!❤️

[@stevenhenderson9005]

NEWS: The sister missionaries just told me last week that missionaries can now go out on a second mission right after they are done with their first one. What the heck! 😲

[@yoannadavila5539]

😮 😕

[@susanmaughan968]

Dose up with loads of immune vitamins and minerals and eat loads of reeces to keep up your energy. Get well. Slow and steady. Love from ENGLAND 🇬🇧 ❤️

[@laurapaulsen1587]

I told my teenagers about "return and report". They are sharing it with their PIMO friends that still have to go to church.

[@kelseygraham3990]

Don't worry!! My sister got shingles at 20 when she was pregnant and my brother got it over the summer at 31!

[@BunnyWatson-k1w]

In Canada the immigration policy has changed. This has meant many LDS members from Mexico and the African countries coming to Canada. Our attendance numbers at my ward have doubled since 2022. Prior to this in 2022 the attendance rate was 15% of the registered members for the ward. Of course the pew numbers are different in 2024. If you go to Europe the numbers are down. For example in Romania the average attendance for the country is 6% of the rolls for the church. I have heard numbers are down in the U.S. but if the pews are full in states like Utah and Arizona no one notices people missing. My friends tracking this data in the UK show the attendance is around 15% of the registered members. The church has closed five stakes in the last few years and they have combined wards and branches die to low attendance. Australian and New Zealand numbers are also down a bit.

[@mormonishpodcast1036]

My son went to Romania on his mission. They would have six people at church and only one priesthood holder outside the missionaries.

[@kelseygraham3990]

In regards to California, I can report that when you leave or start to question here, it's really easy to find and make friends outside of the church so we just kind of move on and we don't go back even for things like counting if we don't have a family event haha. I only pop in to see what you guys are talking about every once in a while because both mine and my husbands parents are still in and all of his siblings ( I was the last to leave of my siblings and we grew up in Oklahoma, he is from Heber). So I think all of that has a lot to do with reporting from California.

[@BunnyWatson-k1w]

One interesting stat for my stake in 68% of the people on the membership rolls are single adults (over age 31). For a church that says a lot about eternal families, there are a lot of divorced, widowed, and never married single adults.

[@mormonishpodcast1036]

That is a very interesting stat. The number of unmarried in Africa where all the converts are coming must be extremely high too.

[@jpalmer2767]

Unmarried people in the church are not second class members

[@nathanday3608]

Attendance for the Church is taken weekly, and is supposed to be entered into the system weekly. Numbers that are entered are averaged over the quarter for the quarterly report. Its not just the highest week. From my experience in living in multiple states, prior to covid, attendance was 50-55%. Post-covid its 30-35%.

[@Radioposting]

The numbers seem to reflect the 80/20 rule, also known as the Pareto principle, states that 80% of outcomes come from 20% of causes. The principle can be applied to many situations. So, take 20% of the claimed 17 million, and you get the real number. (3.4 million)

[@truthseeker4286]

And the percent of tithe payer/ Temple attending is probably half that at best

[@rachaelnlala]

I had shingles a month ago and I’m only 39! A dental procedure during a stressful time in life triggered facial shingles too! But it was the lower facial nerve of my face, not the optic nerve like Rebecca! Ouch!! Feel better soon!! I was miserable for like 10 days and I still have phantoms pains on the nerve 6 weeks later sometimes!

I know my ward has changed since I left so I used the congregation finder to get the new name and while it will show the result on the map, it won’t give any information about the actual address or what time they meet. You now HAVE to sign up for “someone to go with you”.

[@codyironworks307]

I posted the link to Facebook I want to see if I can get somebody from the local wards to post some numbers

[@boysrus61]

Had shingles at about 58. I had 4 “bites” on my stomach and had no idea what it was. Healed quickly with little trouble. If you had chickenpox as a child, you can get them.

[@ricsimmons2003]

Self reporting in Australia was something like 54k members self identifying

[@kiquito]

I had shingles at the age of 20 while on my mission! What's worse is that It was due to getting Dengue, which I had just gotten over, and my immune system was shot... So it's not just an old person's disease... I'm 50 y.o. and just got my shot again last month. And yeah, my mish was one tragedy/illness after another. I had an inguinal hernia, got stung by a bee on my eyelid, got a kidney stone, etc... all while not getting any healthcare due to being in the boondocks of Guatemala.

[@suthatheplee2777]

FWIW: my experience with church stats…every stat was worse than what was reported. I’d like to see 5-10x more data reported and then see if anything changes. 21% activity rate is probably pretty close to accurate. Higher in US, lower outside U.S. we should find a way to drop off all names over age 95.

[@MyBigBeautifulHeart]

Rebecca, I’ve had shingles multiple times. Are you on acyclovir? Also take l-lysine, it’s preventative. Watch out for nerve pain once the actual rash goes away. I offer you lots of hugs and love!!!💕

[@Washingtontree]

Prednisone is also given along with Acyclovir.

[@AnUnlikelyArkie]

In my area of north central Arkansas, church attendance has gone up from about 40 to 75 people on average. Elders have been baptizing. But the main reason for it is people are moving in from different areas. I don't attend. I ask my husband what the attendance is. Sorry you have the shingles. Recover fast!!!!

[@sockneman]

Wonderful initiative! I have a question: I shared the webpage with some friends online. On the link it said it costs 15 dollars per year after a free trial of 45 days. Is this correct? I guess it's a glitch somehow

[@boysrus61]

I wish I would have known about this report. I was in 2 wards the past 4 months. Could have given you a couple of counts out of Utah. People can go to tools and count the number in the ward. I think military wards overseas are usually Americans if their is a language difference

[@user-mn447]

Our stake rearranged two months ago. The Old Farm Park ward is new

[@nancyevans3590]

The cell phone study you guys cited was actually done by an active member and he studied several denominations. His results for the LDS church matched these pretty well. I think he got 20% attendance for the US. Jana Riess did s column on it I think. Anyway I’m also interested in seeing data on Africa although I think it’s probably not going to happen. Not many people here in the US relatives in Africa. That matters because I suspect a lot of those stats are done by inactive members guest attending for family event.

[@jAAbRON]

Thou almost persuadest me to become a PIMO.

[@Rckcasa4118]

I had a student get shingles- a junior in high school! Yet when the vaccine folk came to get us our shots, I wasn’t allowed the shingle shot since I wasn’t 50. Sigh…. I’m so sorry you’re going through it. Get better soon! ❤

[@claytongardinier5179]

So, if you die, do you automatically go on the inactive role?

[@rebeccabibliotheca]

Great question! No if I die because my name is still on the records, I will be on the records for another 51 years!😂

[@patriotpep]

I'm an investigator in the Gilbert stake that goes to 3 YSA wards every Sunday and notice they are using QR codes to log Attendance Also they merge some of the wards because Of their new policy of extending the YSA age to 36 so now for one of them there's over 400 ppl 😅

[@seph4667]

Please educate us about shingles. PLEASE

[@johnnyscoolstuff8427]

I had it when I was 54 (I’m 65 now) and it was close to my Eye which can be dangerous if not kept in check

[@Gideonslc]

Shingles around your eye is no joke. I know people who have gone blind from it. I hope you do well & heal quickly. I had shingles across my back earlier this year. Just wearing a shirt felt like getting attacked with a cheese grater across the skin. Shingles suck!

[@bruceejames919]

Given the Thailand numbers… So they’re building temples in places to go on vacation?

[@Jrjwoodsman]

No shingles, but I (46 M) had Bells Palsy this summer which is caused by a similar virus. Lots of crazy viral stuff going on this year!

[@MyBigBeautifulHeart]

I added the 10 wards in one of my previous Utah stakes (Bountiful Mueller Park) if R & R reads this there is NOT a 6th ward.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

This is a cool idea.

[@cecildavis963]

It looks like it doesn't work for rural UtaH

[@makanaima]

landon sounds so much like kerry shirts. every time he speaks i just see Kerry’s face.

[@mormonishpodcast1036]

Not sure how to take that! Lol

[@bobicusrex]

Sounds like 3 million members total.

[@mindytaylor7408]

I’ve had shingles 3x! The first time in grad school when I was in my early 20s (and they still won’t let me get the shot until I’m in my 50s!) So not just an “old person’s disease”-you are far from old!

[@GaylaGray-k8g]

I’ve had it too and it sucks.

[@rrrrrrrr290]

As an average member sitting in church how can I get the number to report

[@truthseeker4286]

You could count yourself, or ask the ward clerk

[@susiekathryn8570]

And how do we know it’s an honest count? How do we know the numbers are accurate and the clerk didn’t add numbers?

[@brucebrown3499]

I have experienced in the past. I agree it is hell. The only thing that seemed to clam it was Calamin Lotion

[@Washingtontree]

The antiviral Acyclovir, along with Prednisone is prescribed for shingles. If given ASAP it can clear things up fairly quick.

[@Shazza654]

Where is new Zealand

[@debbieshrubb1222]

😮

[@Homepageturned]

I saw a survey about a year ago which showed churches and attendance with those churches or sects. The LDS church showed as the highest attending membership over other sects. So the other churches or religions must be really suffering? But this is not surprising. We are entering a time of great pride in America and the world which means very humbling times are very close as the world moves away from worshipping God. Then even to the point of mocking God. Prophecy being fulfilled in real time right before our very eyes.

[@lorrainedewaal3838]

FYI…. Shingles happen to the young so it’s not an old age thing. My sis had it at age 12. Get well soon miss Rebecca

[@kbrebes]

Make sure you get up and walk around the house every few hours to avoid a blood clot, Rebecca. Drink your water too.

[@kentthalman4459]

the good old days aren't in the U.S. either.

[@joyce7892]

My son, at age 18, got shingles. My daughter did when she was in her 30's. How do "they" know your shingles would be worse without the vaccine? They said that about the COVID jab. How do "they" know it would be worse if you did not get it? Don't believe it. I have had the 2 part and have not gotten shingles. Shingles runs on my fathers side, so I made a choice to get it 6 years ago. Get well soon!

[@rebeccabibliotheca]

Oh wow, so young for your kids to get it! I’m so sorry! And you’re right about all those questions. It really does seem to be a grey area!

[@claytongardinier5179]

My malware has blocked me from entering this site as unreliable.

[@2LucidDream]

My browser & malware program wouldn't let me go to the site

[@Jeanikins]

@@2LucidDream Me neither.

[@mattwoolley]

Hey Rebecca, do you just love that? 😂

[@Naomi1701]

I like this project but the comment on Africa was really ignorant. Please do better.

I had shingles on my face at 45 and 48. I was told it is extremely rare that you can get shingles more than twice so I’m hoping I’m done. The vax is only 80% effective so it sounds like you are just one of the unlucky ones. :(

[@stephenjackson7797]

He didn't talk to REAL statisticians. Sample size is not a fixed number you can pick and work toward over time. It is based on a short gathering timeframe and upon getting enough in each "pool" of populations to get that pool's statistically significant reading. For him to have gotten a magic sample size number that didn't have these types of provisions on it shows he did not do his just due. I place zero confidence in his evaluations.

[@allenshaw3790]

The incidence of people getting Shingles is much higher among those who got the shot than among those who did not get the jab.

[@rebeccabibliotheca]

That would be interesting to study. My doctor said he had only heard of me and one other person who had gotten it after getting the shot. Supposedly it is supposed to lessen the recovery time and the reaction. There was a person at my work who had to go on disability because of it for over half a year. Yikes!

[@sk8690]

That is simply not true, I’ve just been through every journal paper I can find, and the only drug that seems to increase incidence of shingles is statins. So please stop spreading lies that could cause people to become gravely ill. @mormonish

[@sk8690]

As with all vaccines, it works in two ways. It stops you getting the worst/life-threatening symptoms, and if enough people take it, it can eventually remove it from circulation altogether.

[@btrasbt]

1. You note that you got the shingles shot but still got shingles. 2. You claim that it would've been worse had you not got the shot. How can you prove this? On what logical basis? None. Maybe you wouldn't have even got shingles at all had you NOT recieved the shot. Why didn't you claim this? After all, the shot was supposed to prevent you from getting it but you got it anyways.... Every single year I watch my friends line up for the flu shot, and every single year those getting the shot are predominately the ones that get sick. Strange.

[@cleedix]

I’ve never changed any minds about vaccine research, but I’m a glutton for punishment, so here’s the reasoning (not proof, but at least trying to steelman the argument). When vaccine clinical trials are done, there is a test group and a control group that has a placebo. Then outcomes from the control group are compared to the test group. The results are put into categories depending on severity. I’d imagine the results are that the number of severe cases in the test group were less than the number for the control. To your point, the number of severe cases in the test group was almost certainly not zero, and there were certainly people in both groups with no symptoms. But if there are less people in the test group with severe outcomes than in the control group, it is at least logical to state that without the vaccine it could have been worse. It sounds like you are making a similar claim in your post. I’d be interested to see you write up your results. If you can come up with 20-40 people and then track who has a flu shot and who doesn’t and then compare the number of people who get sick divided by the number in their group (those who got the flu shot or those who didn’t). I would be interested to see how those numbers compare.

[@aminaadamu9342]

When a child has chickenpox, the virus goes and lies dormant in one of the nerves in the child's spine. If something happens down the line, such as stress or reduced immunity, the virus makes itself apparent in the area of skin supplied by that nerve. This causes the particular area skin to form very painful blisters (shingles). If you have never had chickenpox, you can never have shingles, because there will be no virus lying dormant in a nerve in your spine. Shingles can be very debilitating in vulnerable patients, and the vaccine works by reducing the severity and length of the illness. Of course the best way to prevent shingles in later life would be to vaccinate against chicken pox before kids get it. I never had chickenpox, and was vaccinated against it as an adult when I started medical school. I will never get chickenpox and so will never get shingles. I hope this helps explain why Rebecca still had shingles despite the vaccine. And yes, the shingles would have been a lot worse had she not had the vaccine.

[@btrasbt]

@aminaadamu9342 This I am well aware of. However, my point about the logic of her statements still stands. Unfortunately, what I am implying reference to is the rising evidence that many vaccines are actually imparing people's immune systems. KZbin will not let me post any links to these studies, though, and deletes my comments. I sometimes wonder if the use of known immuno disruptors, like some of the organometallic compounds that are being used in these vaccines is causing issues. What I am trying to encourage is the destruction of the modus operandi of faith, and a deeper look into evidence. Having studied physics and chemistry myself, and finding numerous bogus "scientific" studies, I am acutely aware that widely accepted narratives have gross errors embedded within them.

[@Washingtontree]

​@@aminaadamu9342I'm surprised at how many people get shingles and are not prescribed Acyclovir and Prednisone. My son had shingles about 2 years after a BMT. His doctors put him on the 2 drugs ASAP and he had a fairly quick recovery.

[@carolyearsley]

My former father-in -law died from a flu shot.

[@michaelparks5669]

hahaha this is bogus......

[@debbieshrubb1222]

What is bogus?

[@godsoffspring4195]

The real question to me is... other than for church business and logistics, why would anyone want to know the 'real' attendance stats?? Maybe we should reword the question: What is the real number of those with their names in The Book of Life. :>)

[@nordicexile7378]

We are ALL listed in the Book of Life. It's just that some of us have black check-marks next to our names! 🙂

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@nordicexile7378 You might think so. What you are thinking of isn't a book at all.

[@rebeccabibliotheca]

Transparency and consent! Real numbers allow people to understand what’s really going on and address real issues. I visited the ward of a relative in Texas. I got to meet some of my relatives friends and they were all talking about how it seemed like there weren’t very many people left in the ward, but nobody knew where anybody had gone, maybe they had all moved? They really seemed confused. There were only six young women left in the entire YW program. Everyone was just trying to carry on as usual. As a church leader wouldn’t you want to know that 80% of your congregation was not attending.? What could you do differently? How could you help serve the people? How could you encourage more attendance? Without understanding what’s actually happening you can’t make meaningful changes.

[@nordicexile7378]

@@godsoffspring4195 Indeed! The neutrino bombardment we are all subject to (estimates are that "approximately 100 trillion neutrinos pass completely harmlessly through your body every second!" are the spiritual VHS tape of the universe and is the real Book of Life. The question is: is it recording us, or playing us back?!?!

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@rebeccabibliotheca Oh, hi Rebecca! I would think as a church leader, one would automatically know that attendance was lacking in the ward stake or branch. It would show every Sunday and weekly events on a daily basis. He, they or she would know the real attendance automatically. No?? Is the title aimed at church leaders? I think not but I do agree, and as I originally said, other than for church business and logistics, why would anyone want to know the 'real' attendance stats? I'm not a leader nor are most or all of your listeners I assume so the question remains... why would we want to know other than what we see in church every day or to satisfy a curiosity? The key mystery word being "real" attendance. Is somebody hiding something or something?? :>)