Epic Warpath VS Legions Imperialis: Which Is The Better 10mm Epic Scale SciFi Miniatures Game?

Two games enter, but only one leaves the battlefield alive. Who will win this epic sci fi miniature game showdown? I’ve picked my favorite. Which is yours?
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The Games:
Epic Warpath by Mantic Games - Live on Kickstarter Here
www.kickstarter.com/projects/...
Legions Imeprialis by Games Workshop
thehorusheresy.com/legions-im...
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Timecodes:
0:00 - Intro
0:20 - Preamble
0:46 - Evaluation Criteria
0:56 - Miniatures
4:53 - Gameplay
6:15 - Lore & Fluff
6:54 - Value for $
9:28 - Company Support
11:43 - Flavor & Fun
13:35 - Wrap Up & Close
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Music by: Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio
Chill Sci Fi Synth Playlist - Europa // Royalty Free Copyright Safe Music
• Chill Sci Fi Synth Pla...
#epicwarpath #manticgames #legionsimperialis #gamesworkshop #miniaturewargaming

[@thehobbyhabit]

What do you all think? Fair comparison? Which would you get?

[@adamevans7619]

Warpath 100%

[@thehobbyhabit]

@@adamevans7619 ... my choice as well. Excited for the game next year!

[@synthicate5030]

Battletech

[@thehobbyhabit]

@@synthicate5030 😂🤓👍 … that one too!

[@davidwasilewski]

Legions. The IP and the terrain tip it for me. Plus the nostalgia of epic!

[@joebaker5581]

I was excited about legion imperialis until I heard no xenos. Mantic heard me cry out through the warp, and said "We got you, bro".

[@thehobbyhabit]

I feel seen. 👍(Looks like the Veermyn (Space Skaven) will unlock tomorrow as a selectable faction for pledges. (excited squeaking noises))

[@OldeWorldHammer]

But crap models

[@bonkstrum9555]

I think votann would be comically small

[@thehobbyhabit]

@@bonkstrum9555 Forge Fathers here will be interesting to see. I think they will work out well. They may fudge the scale a little.

[@josemanuelaguero68]

I would go with Mantic, just based off previous experiences with both companies

[@ghillieguy52]

I was hoping for epic 40k to return but had gotten fed up with GW's business practices by the time of it's announcement, epic warpath came at the perfect time for me. had always heard good things about mantic but watching their interactions with the community throughout the campaign has been awesome.

[@thehobbyhabit]

Welcome to the Mantic fandom. 💜 If you like the sci-if side of things I strongly suggest checking out Deadzone. 👍

[@Phoney72]

Im confident that Warpath will take on some fresh new ideas, like having stock to sell

[@thehobbyhabit]

😂😂🙃 … yeahhhh … If history is a guide probably an initial wave of stock to retail followed by decent levels of stock on Mantic’s site. They aren’t immune to selling stuff out either, but usually fill demand gaps well, and get things back to being available.

[@Phoney72]

@@thehobbyhabit I would understand it more from Mantic, smaller company and all. I'll always love GW and Warhammer but I'm getting tired of a release schedule they aren't able to fulfil.

[@farpointgamingdirect]

GW pushed Epic out the door not long after Mantic announced Eoic Warpath. Mantic blows GW out of the water

[@avantasiaftw]

Haha, funny stuff.

[@leeskolmoski4494]

GW announced legions imperialism long before mantic ever brought this up. I am very much a mantic fanboy here but… we have to tell the truth.

[@cetx]

I'm a big Horus Heresy fan, but I'm backing Warpath for the difference in monetary value, and the inclusion of terrain. And variety is the spice of life, and I think it'll be refreshing to play a different system for my "epic" games.

[@thehobbyhabit]

Well said. 👍 Yes, what a great new entry into 10mm sci-fi.

[@ShawnMM]

I played the old 40K Epic game and loved it but disappointed that the current version is so limited on factions. It also has a major problem of many of the miniatures being out of stock. With Warpath it won't be out to till next year but a core box with the reinforcement box will give me a nice variety of miniatures. I liked how the game looked in the EPIC Warpath demo video. I plan to back it at the Lieutenant level and may raise that with the backerkit later to High Command as it's a good deal.

[@armundojones]

My gaming group barely gave a glance towards Legions Imperialis not a penny spent. I've kicked in for Epic Warpath and quite a few others in the group are giving it serious consideration. If they get GCPS unlocked thats the minis for Mazon Labs 95% forted between them and the Plague.

[@thehobbyhabit]

Heyyyy… good point on Mazon Labs!

[@michaciemniewski9791]

I will play Warpath. More different factions, slicker game (as always). Also those huper heavies are great. Plague Colossus... OMG.

[@yumanoid5753]

What amazed me on the warpath kickstarter is, that mantic droped the funding goals for the additional factions halfway through the campaign. So space rats are in now, thats 5 factions to choose from.

[@thehobbyhabit]

Yes! Just posted a little update video on that. Hah.

[@bobvanpeborgh6312]

As an old Space-marine(epic) player who owned all races/factions (Spacemarines, Chaosmarines, Imperial guards, Eldar, Orcs, Squats and as last Tyrranids and of course the different kind of Titans) I'd like to say that from those days, the "Epic"play-system seemed to have undergone minimal changes in both new games, but although GW has the most experience in that scale incomparison with Mantic, I tend to be more interested in Warpath than in Legions Imperialis, due to the fact that it is like another try-out from GW(since Space-marine was released in the 80's, GW re-worked it later and released it, with new models, but apparently the sales weren't as were expected so it faded away fast. GW also tried again to bring an "Epic-scale" game, this time in the old WH-fantasy realm, but that didn't last long neither; this is the third time they launch a 40K Epic-game); so far they present us the Imperial space marines against one of the Horus traitor forces, but until now, no word about any other factions (like in the original game), Warpath, if their pledges reach the required amount, promises a whole spectrum of factions, which will be sold seperately, something GW is doing lesser and lesser, selling factions in pairs/sets. So right now, I am more interested in buying Warpath than Legions Imperialis...

[@DaneSaysStuff]

I went all in on Epic Warpath. HH was never much interest to me, and the grimdark far future is getting pretty stale at this point. At least with the WPU I feel I have more freedom to tell my own tales. All the same reasons I still love Maelstrom's Edge.

[@thehobbyhabit]

I watched HH Legions Imp with much interest, but knew Mantic was going to do it better, so I waited. I could be wrong, and somehow see GW really invest and support Legions Imp' well, but the continued signs point to "not likely". Feels like they are going to hype it, sell what they can, and move on to what is next. Such a common pattern for anything not called 40K. I'm happy to be surprised and wrong. I wish all the Horus Heresy lovers out there nothing but love and all the support from GW. Just feels like it probably won't deliver. Mantic on the other hand, even if they have some burps and struggles on the road, they will deliver for me in the end. They cannot just rest on IP alone. They are motivated to make good games, and it always shows.

[@andreasell1830]

I understand, i will play both and for me legions had the potential of becoming the game....but gw is missing and saboting

[@benparker1822]

You mentioned BT and CAV. You got my subscription for that.

[@thehobbyhabit]

Gonna bring a little more neutral small scale sci-fi stuff to the channel next. Will of course continue to cover BTech and CAV but news has been kind of slow as of late. Appreciate the sub! 👍🙌

[@benparker1822]

@@thehobbyhabit Always looking for more toys to supplement what I've got.

[@FreeFragUK]

When it comes to Lore GW has an inherent advantage in lieu of its market presence and the many years put into it's own inhouse publishing house. While GW may have released a lot of Lore and story content for their products, that doesn't necessitate that it's all good quality stuff. Admittedly I went off looking into the Lore surrounding Warpath/Firefight and while there are some similarities, I've found it to have a pretty solid and well formulated gaming world. As for product longevity, I think you did a really good job of touching on this. In reality I think GW will probably abandon Legiones within the next 1 - 3 years. In contrast to this, you've already highlighted that Mantic have a good track record for supporting their products. Regarding value, I think you have to consider the monumental disparity in what each company lays out as the expectation for standard tournament/competitive. When you start to consider that disparity, GW's value quickly plummets into the ground. Something which is further devalued when you consider GW's history for supporting products.

[@thehobbyhabit]

Well said. I think philosophically Mantic emphasizes selling games while GW is primarily focused on selling miniatures.

[@FreeFragUK]

@@thehobbyhabit Thank you although I'd argue that GW's sole concern is sales whereas Mantic actually values their community. The behaviour constantly displayed by GW in relation to sales and treatment of the community clearly shows a company that only cares about profit.

[@roguemind5061]

Would have been good to go into more details on the gameplay.

[@thehobbyhabit]

Maybe I can get a little game play compare/contrast video here upcoming. Thanks for the feedback.

[@flindude2681]

Even though I like epic warhammer aka legions imperialis, it seems to pick the most boring era to have epic battles on. its traitor legions with barly any chaos and regular legions. Having aliens and real chaos realy makes it more diverse.

[@thehobbyhabit]

Totally agree. GW missed the boat. Should have been Epic 40K from the get go. Also would have made me happier as they then started passing off so much Horus Heresy Thursdays content from LI instead of AoD.

[@geertbeekman8680]

the infantry from warpath are really nice but the vehicle i have seen are the opposide i only did see vehicles from 2 factions so there could be better ones out. And i dont like kickstarters. Support wise the futher will tell . Is legion better ?? i dont know but for me its the miniatures, so i will go for legion.

[@benparker1822]

It really is too bad that GW will probably not support the game they just released. As someone wanting a Super Robot Wars style mash-up for all my sci-fi and Science Fantasy settings, I actually want a few representative bits of 40k. I have Orks, and some Titans, but I really want a few marines and rhino transports, as well as some Lemon Rust tanks for the Imperium. And, maybe give the game a look to see what I think of the rules, as well. Otherwise, I'll be giving them some stats for a game system I prefer better. So far, that's still BattleTech, with some tweaks for Infantry combat.

[@SciFiPorkChop28]

I do think your lore comparison is true, but also could be a downside.... does a new legion imperialis player want to know how many HH books there are? lol.... the other bit I didn't yet hear you talk about is the faction diversity... yes... HH has some great lore over the last 40 years.. but it's 95% marine vs marine with a bit of Mars and a side tanget about orks.... for me, the variety of Epic Warpath with distinct 4 (to maybe 8?) factions coming is the real draw... I played a LOT of 40K epic and really wanted Legion Imperialis to NOT just be a HH timeframe... I want nids and eldar and orks... and Legion Imperialis doesn't seem like it will do that for me.

[@SciFiPorkChop28]

oh, you mentioned the faction variety... nice... lol

[@thehobbyhabit]

Epic 40K with Eldar would have given me slightly more pause, but still same decision in the end. Gameplay variety and company are just a huge factor here. Thanks for all the comments and chatting with me. 👍🤓

[@Trulli9]

The value aspect, not sure if i wouldnt give gw only a 1.

[@thehobbyhabit]

I'm probably being a little more gracious in some aspects of both of these games. It's hard. I like them both for what they are.

[@captainferrite]

At kickstarter rates I'd give Mantic a 6 for value :P Warpath's gameplay is also more polished version of Epic 40.000 than LI is. Good breakdown otherwise.

[@thehobbyhabit]

I definitely favor the d8, command dice, evolving objectives nature of Warpath. You are right, I’m probably grading LI a little on a curve, but it’s very playable. It goes up to 6? 😂 I realize I didn’t claim my scale ranges. I swear I never manage to cover everything I want in videos either. Ha.

[@rossallan3585]

Well. I don’t want to play an Epic Scale Game. I want to play an Epic Scale Game set in the 40,000 universe. So a pretty one sided issue for me.

[@TetsugakuSan]

The only thing that matters is how many games you can get in locally and how many tournaments there will be. So Legions wins hands down.

[@farpointgamingdirect]

That's inconsequential if you don't play tournaments. Most people are looking for value, and GW doesn't have it

[@thehobbyhabit]

Since Epic Warpath is not such a cost stretch to fund two well fleshed out armies, to me, that means it is de-facto the game that will get the most table time between the two. I'm not completely reliant on my local game community for opponents. If I was, I'd have to re-evaluate, and see if what feels like a thin continued promise for LI would be worth it. I get what you are saying though. Yes. Being able to actually PLAY is a huge factor. Thank you.

[@TetsugakuSan]

@@farpointgamingdirect if you don’t have the money to play the hobby. Get another hobby. Try mountain biking or photography, they both cost me a fortune. This doesn’t.

[@SciFiPorkChop28]

when will Dreadball get MORE love!!! MOAR LOVE!!! lol... okay, the only OTHER issue is the timing.. right.... we are waiting for 2025 for Epic Warpath... while at least Legion Imperalis is techically available if you can find it

[@thehobbyhabit]

Very true. Epic Warpath is still a year away, but for me that is a year to get my table ready. 🤣 Besides, I can wait a year for one of my wargaming crushes, Mantic Games. Worth it!

[@brandubh7046]

LI only gives you Loyalist vs Chaos, no aliens, no nothing else. Also, you rate the gameplay for LI too highly in my opinion. I had the rules, the game wasn't even complete as sold as a starter.

[@Griffonbait]

Interesting video. You are confusing Supply and Demand (S&D) with Company Support (CS). CS is all about the extras/additional accessories to support the base game: new releases, dice, counters/markers, unit cards, etc., along with Errata and FAQs for rules (updates). We are not seeing that with Mantic games so much - it is more a case of, as you say, every "now and then" (approx. @11:35 re: Dreadball). I own all the Mantic skirmish and mass combat games, with multiple armies, and I love the gameplay. Mantic, however, do not have the budget commitment to advertise and create multiples of new products on a weekly basis for their various titles. Games Workshop do, and by doing so, keep up a lot of momentum in product interest - as you have noticed by your CS score. By doing this GW clearly receive a LOT of flak for supply issues. You are discussing a game, Epic Warpath, that isn't even available, and so your suggestion that CS is a 5, is ludicrous, at best it is a 0, because you won't have it available for at least a year, probably longer with Feb being the Chinese New Year. Speculation that it is (or will be) a 5 is wishful thinking. @10:40 +, you bring up, then ignore, the failings of Mantic's supply of its products, e.g. The Walking Dead - they clearly had to restock their products - a problem that you use to degrade GW CS score. Mantic do not own the IP and so have to renew it each time. GW does not suffer such issues and can resupply old games whenever they consider the demand (nostalgia?) high enough to commit to a re-release, e.g. Titanicus, WH Quest, now EPIC. GW also branches into other titles, Aeronautica Imperialis. You can be assured Battlefleet Gothic will make a return, we just do not know when. Legions Imperialis has _demonstrated_ it is being given a lot of CS by the very nature that is already supplying "Wave" 2. Sure, a lot of product items are not available at the moment, but if Mantic had the same demand for their content, they too would be struggling to supply stock. In fact, as an owner of Mantic games, I am often confronted with no stock available for products I want on their online store, and it is not easy to get from FLGSs either. This has been going on for years now. Considering your idea of CS, I would give GW a 3, possibly a 3.5 because of their wave 2 product release. Which will, no doubt, be another sell out. Re: Gameplay, again Epic Warpath is unproven, and at best can be given a 2 based on what we have seen of the basics. No doubt Mantic will update rules concerns/issues, once they become apparent and 10s of thousands start playing the game. I wouldn't give Legions Imperialis a 5 either, it has its own set of problems. I'd give it a 3.5-4, but no higher than 4.5. Thank you for your video - and getting me motivated enough to comment.

[@thehobbyhabit]

Thumbs up. Thanks for your comment and discussion. I can see how you think I'm conflating supply with support. To me, supply is actually the ultimate show of support and commitment to a game, by a company. Of course it involves your examples as well, and I do think initial release supply is just GW being very conservative, as it didn't know what market demand was going to be. That said, GW are super risk adverse and very scattered across systems these days. The result is extremely anemic "support" for most anything that isn't Warcry, Killteam, 40K, or AoS. Dreadball was vibrant and well supported for 9 years, before Overdrive came. Will LI live that long? I'm pretty skeptical. It certainly will not go 9 years and only ask a would be player to invest Dreadball levels of money to stay current. As to a lack of supply for Walking Dead, it was because Mantic wasn't sure if it would be able to maintain the IP license to continue to sell. They stopped production to not leave themselves with a glut of product they couldn't move. Now that they have a new inked deal Walking Dead is roaring back. Lack of variety in factions, how I see GW treat their boxed and non-flagship games, and finally the perceived value for dollar calculation, is why I choose the promise of Warpath over the promise of LI. At the end of the day we are all betting and making a calculation on how much personal enjoyment we can get from any game system. Sometimes all it takes is better looking minis. Sometimes it's a whole multitude of factors. I personally don't see a couple months of release by one game system, and a pending release of another being a year away, a barrier to make those sort of opinion based judgement calls now. One very much can weigh current and future support of LI versus future support in Warpath, right? Based on what I think GW will do, and what they are providing, it's less appealing than Warpath to me. If money and time weren't big factors here I would happily get both. Realize the moment I saw Mantic announce their plans for Epic Warpath, and the nagging hole in my dirty xenos heart that no Eldar would be coming in Epic scale, I pushed heavy pause on what was an initial big wargame lust for LI. I was willing to wait to see what Mantic was going to offer in the recent Kickstarter, and happy I did. Will I be happy in 5 years? 10 years? Based on my experiences with Mantic to date, the odds are strong. Thanks again. 👍

[@Griffonbait]

​@@thehobbyhabit When I talk supply for Walking Dead, I am talking right from the onset. From the end of the KS through to the full Wave releases, Mantic has had supply problems, at least from my perspective. I got everything, every Wave, and noticed the inability to purchase individual releases. The one thing they seemed to have an oversupply of was the first KS box, and I didn't want or need multiple copies of that product. Once whole Waves were sold, the "sold out" problems began. Re: betting and making a calculation on how much personal enjoyment we can get from a game. LI players _know_ now how much enjoyment they get. It is not hypothetical. EW players are non-existent, for the most part, and Mantic want to promote their new product release only in a highly positive way, as expected. Such bias is natural for any new product release. It is easy for us to get caught up in the hype, as you know. LI has no longer got publisher-only hype. People can review the full rules, as they play. They can see the good and the bad during play and look to making adjustments that suit them. There are dozens of reviews of LI across the net in the form of text, podcast, and videos. EW has none of this. I respectfully disagree with you on our ability to assess the current and future support of LI versus future support in Warpath: For LI -> known, it will be several years - at least before the market is mostly saturated. vs. For EW -> unknown, as it depends on the _retail_ _sales_ of a KS that has yet to be released. The retail sales will be evaluated months after the retail releases. So you say that you really wanted Epic WH40K, not LI. I can understand that the LI release has been a _BIG_ downer for you - it is not what you wanted - who wouldn't be sad, hence biased against LI? "Will I be happy in 5 years? 10 years?" If you play it, and like it, then "yes" is the answer. I still enjoy playing my very first, first edition GW game from the 80s. Sure, it doesn't come out all that often, but that doesn't mean I enjoy it any less. Personally, I do not care what others think about the games I have and play. I have them because _I_ _like_ _them_ , not because others do - whether they are supported now or not. I have tons of games for which the publishers don't exist, have stopped production, or left in limbo. Would you like to paly a game of _Tannhäuser_ ? Anyone? What a great FFG game that is! Like you, I am looking forward to EW's actual release. I am interested in hearing what others think about it, but I won't rate the game on what others think. It is their problem, if they don't like it after they purchased it. I prefer to wait and see unrehearsed, unedited gameplay. Let's see the thorns come out and snag players. I can best assess a major purchase given that information. On the other hand, GW games are pretty standardised and, as you identified, have clear rulesets in general. I played alternating player turns for WH40K years before Kill Team, and will continue to do so - as well as standard play. No one is stuck with the rulesets as given. Thanks for the discussion. It is good that we can agree to disagree, don't you think? Cheers.

[@thehobbyhabit]

@@Griffonbait ... Absolutely, and yes, still disagree on few points. Haha. ;) Outside of our subjective disagreements I think there is one pretty big objective sticking point I still have in your argument: People make value calculations off of promise all the time. It's why the whole discipline of marketing exist. Brand loyalty and past experience also play into this in a very large way. I think you over emphasize the importance of a game being launched and in the market for 3 months. Admittedly, I clearly over emphasize my personal past experiences with Mantic. Anyhow, it's all for the love of extra tiny sci fi battles, so at the end of the day we all win. :) Thanks again.

[@Griffonbait]

​@@thehobbyhabit True, and it is not like I haven't played the risk game and been burned by KSs a few times. Mantic have always pulled through on those for sure. So then, we can take your entire argument for Mantic's EW as a biased, valued calculation, because of wishful thinking based on reliable experience of Mantic's other game systems. While LI is a more realistic, but skewed view, based on experience of GW's reputation of their game systems, along your inherent bias for EW because it is cheaper, maybe? Or do you value the Warpath (WP) universe more favourable then the Horus Heresy (HH) universe for other reasons? Personally, I favour the WP universe having come into it playing Deadzone. It is also a newer IP, coming in the 2010s. HH, while looking fun, didn't have the variety WH40K does - one of your own dislikes about LI. It was also a lot more expensive to get into, via Forge World. I haven't purchased the latest HH products at 28-32 mm scale. I really liked Aeronautica Imperialis (AI) though, and got into that, as well as Titanicus, both of which are set at an 8 mm scale. I had a suspicion that once both of these games were out, Epic would naturally follow. Albeit, AI was set in the 40K time period, while Titanicus was in 30K (HH). You can see the seesaw teetering going on here. Which way will it fall? Then the AI book, set in the HH period, came out, and I knew they were intending to create the HH game set in the same scale. It was then just a matter of time. It was only ever going to be Epic scale HH, but I didn't see the obvious. Titanicus would need a WH40K upgrade to all of its miniatures, while AI needed none of that. It was only logical that Epic scale HH was the final product - which then incorporated two same-scaled games that had been good for GW. GW are genius! They produced two great games at 8 mm scale, which stay as individual games, then added that extra layer of infantry/armour gameplay in LI. So now, anyone with the HH 28-32 mm/1:56 scale game with the rulebooks and campaign books, has the chance to play some truly tiny, TRULY EPIC HH gameplay as well, just add scale adjustments for movement, but keep the weapon ranges the same - okay, maybe a little shorter to enhance gameplay, or give attacking units range-based penalties of some sort, or give the targets a range-based bonus to their save. -> This will be the same for EW too - if you own the WP rulebooks! Everyone knows that 6' x 4' tables are unrealistic battlefield sizes. That is just approx. 336' x 224' (75,264 sq.ft.) in the real world @ 1:56 scale - hardly enough space for a couple of tanks to manoeuvre and play pew, pew. @ 1:200 scale , however, the battlefield, in real life, is bigger, at 1200' x 800' (960,000 sq.ft.). These are still tiny-sized distances/areas considering modern tanks can effectively shoot at targets at a distance of up to 3 km (1.86 mi = 118,103", which is 5906" = 492' at 1:200 scale). My arms aren't long enough to play a table that big! Maybe an 8' x 6' table at a stretch. Modern Pistols and rifles, having much shorter ranges can still reliably shoot approx. 20" (almost 2') and 98" (about 8'), respectively, @ 1:200 scale. More if they have advanced optics (scopes). -> Have you considered/looking forward to this style of play, @thehobbyhabit ?

[@SimoneRistori]

As a long time epic fan I went for LI but the rules are a disappointment, using as a base probably the most outdated and worst version of epic they ever made, the rulebook is simply badly written and unclear, the setting is boring and it's just blue vs red. Moreover it's frustrating because you can't even buy it or you have to ridiculously wait for pre-order to open and use a frankly bad website to buy stuff, if anything is available. The only positive thing about LI is that the miniatures are amazing. I think I will just give up on LI, use the miniatures I have to play Epic Armageddon and be done with it. At the same time investing now in a game that is in Kickstarter and will be available next year it's a meh...The rules seems good, figures ok but I find the lack of vehicles disheartening. There are maybe two tanks per faction and epic it's a game where I want to see tanks on the battlefield. All in all both games don't really hit the spot for me. Let's see in a couple of years if it's going to be worth investing on either of them.

[@thehobbyhabit]

(salute) Thank you for sharing your take and experiences. That all really resonates with me to various degrees. Do you play any other 10-15mm scifi?

[@Armand451]

Could not agree more. The LI rules are beyond disappointing.

[@SimoneRistori]

@@thehobbyhabit Epic Armageddon is my ruleset of choice. You can find it free online

[@Belzebub1978]

Damn mantic is the waaaay better company, but i cant help myself and dont like their mini designs from an art perspective not quality wise

[@thehobbyhabit]

Felt that way about their Armada naval game but have always loved their Kings of War and Deadzone/Warpath minis.

[@tenchuu007]

Get some sound deadening foam for your recording room to kill that bathroom echo.

[@thehobbyhabit]

Speaking into a flat panel computer screen. I know. I need to mic up.

[@darthkek1953]

HH and LI, along with WHFB, is "Dadhammer" whereas 40K, Sigmar, and (presumably) Warpath is for "Da Yung Bludz". It's like comparing Slayer to Lil Nas X. (I like Kill Team, sticking to the music analogy, akin to Talking Heads, quality but niche).

[@petermueller5069]

Nope. Because older players tend to leave GW behind or at least try better games. Some even start playing historical games.

[@darthkek1953]

@@petermueller5069 tell me you're salty without saying "I'm salty".

[@Perchpole]

Legions Imperialis isn’t without its problems but Warpath looks like a fairly bland remake. The miniatures are simplistic and the rules don’t appear to do anything new. If you really want an Epic style game that is refreshingly new and elegant, try Full Spectrum Dominance by The Lazy Forger. It’s years ahead of both LI and Warpath.

[@farplaine]

I was thinking LI would get me back into a gw game other than Underworlds, but setting the game in the Horus heresy was a blunder. They did it because they had no faith in the product and probably didn’t want to cannibalise 40k. I’m disappointed with mantic for their continued lack of self confidence. The “EPIC” in the title just screams of trying to call to epic 40k players but mantic games are fun and rules are leaps and bounds better than any trash GW has put out in years. They should have had the faith and confidence to just call it Warpath. KoW has grown far beyond its initial roots as a Fantasy knock off. And Deadzone and the Warpath universe are amazing games and becoming an interesting setting. They won’t ever rival GW but they are better than they seem to think they are by continuing to peek from GWs shadow with stuff like this. All that said I think warpath looks great. Vehicles are too small and they’ve said in the commments that this will be fixed in production so hopefully they will be a bot chunkier. I’ve backed it and I’m looking forward to seeing where it goes. LI is basically dead and GW don’t have any stock. Mantic at least support their games with stock availability. Mad concept.

[@skyhigh388]

I don't like Mantic minis. Sculpts aren't my cup of tea.

[@thehobbyhabit]

I get that. Sometimes they make things I don't find that appealing either.

[@CrushDepth19]

nobody plays either game, so there's little point in choosing

[@Perchpole]

You seriously think Warpath minis are only half a point behind Legions Imperialis minis?! The Warpath vehicles, in particular, look cheap and poorly designed. GW released Epic scale plastics in the 80s which were better than The Warpath offerings!

[@thehobbyhabit]

The Enforcer vehicles shown to date are probably a full 2 points behind. Everything else we have seen on tank/apc side probably only 1 point behind. Mechs and infantry look equivalent to me. Add in the more alien designs and variety of the model range itself ... yes, I do think it is only about .5 behind ... seriously.

[@Perchpole]

@@thehobbyhabit Hmm. Each to their own, but I can’t agree - especially as many of the Warpath offerings are shown as renders. Also we mustn’t let our jaundiced view of GW prices and business practices cloud our judgement. The LI range of minis is beautifully detailed in a way the Warpath stuff cannot hope to match. DropZone Commander isn’t far behind and is also better than Warpath. The only minis that beat GW at that scale are probably Full Spectrum Dominance by Lazy Forger.

[@thehobbyhabit]

@@Perchpole Have four armies worth of Dropzone. Love that game! Seen a lot of good things on FSD, but prints seem to be at 6mm, though I realize that people can push the scale up to 10mm. FSD also seems to not be the game system for me for a few reasons. I think you and I are both judging something (Epic Warpath) that is mostly not even here yet, but I respect your take. When choosing a game I am absolutely weighing much more beyond how good the miniatures are. It's probably because I have so many games now, but I am finding the minis themselves are often not very important in determining things for me. They still have to look good, obviously, but there is much more to consider, and in my eye Warpath and LI are very very close cousins in almost all respects.

[@michaciemniewski9791]

I am a big fan of Striders. Enforcer tanks are too slick for my taste but Asterians/Forge Fathers and Plague/GCPS vehicles are fantastic. Also more factions means You have more visually interesting game in general unless You are a SM fanboy, then well... Different story. But Warpath is not one faction show. I really dig most of the infantry models for Warpath so far. Especially Forge Father and Asterians. I also think Archon does GW-quality casts so Warpath seems to be in very good hands in terms of plastics.

[@Perchpole]

@@michaciemniewski9791 Not a fanboy at all. I am first a model maker/painter - so appreciate design quality and production values. I am genuinely disappointed with Warpath. Not just because of the very basic minis - but also because the rules don't appear to add anything new. (OK, apart from a D8!) IMHO, Mantic have missed an opportunity to do something fresh and new. Instead they are simply overwhelming people with plastic! It is in this context that I am trying to understand why people are so excited about Epic Warpath when they are other, far better, more innovative, epic scale games out there already - Dropzone Commander and Full Spectrum Dominance being just two of them.

[@naczelnyk0073]

Universe without The Emperor is empty. And Mantic universe is double empty. Not to mention a shitty epic logo rip-off

[@thehobbyhabit]

My universes are a multitude, but I am a heretic by nature.

[@spamerling833]

Personally I enjoy the Warpath Lore.

[@markgrehan3726]

I think Warpath looks pretty good but I had hoped they had managed to get out of G.W's shadow by now. They should have released this ages ago when there was no G.W version.

[@paulkertby8186]

Played GW games since the mid/later part of the 80´s. GW always lacks balance and way too complicated rules(and the newest army always the best).. Codex/army books and similair could be years from each other. Mantic has several ways to balance rules and armies, RC, Mantic itself and players. Like KoW has one update/year for all armies and rules. Mantic all the way, especially rule wise.

[@thehobbyhabit]

@@paulkertby8186 ... feel very much the same. I do get that there is an appeal in chasing the meta, always something new coming, but it's just not a hamster wheel I really get on. Would rather lower volume of releases (especially rules) in favor of a more stable playable game.

[@martinjrgensen8234]

Warpath looks as cheap and generically bland as everything else Mantic makes. There might be 5 factions instead of 2, but they contain a paltry amount of units. They just look like generic derivative factions. Completely unoriginal. Mantic can’t write lore that is remotely gripping

[@michaciemniewski9791]

Mantic is really good with classic/generic SF and Fantasy. I really dislike the need for new games to include wierd factions. Like AoS (mostly to TM everything) or Conquest (random mix of historical and fantasy). Mantic's fluff is more realistic, universe in more real (not the wierd all out war for millenia) and their factions are like that too. They do have a very cool armies like Nameless, Matsudan but the core is more like Mutant Chronicles rather than W40k. Human factions and some reasonable aliens + a form of chaos (Plague and rats). This classic approach is a good thing.

[@TetsugakuSan]

100%. The number of units Legions has is far in excess of the total unit count of warpath.

[@michaciemniewski9791]

@@TetsugakuSanquestion is does it give real diversity in choices OR just complexity GW games are know for. Do not forget complexity is not the same as depth. My experience with Kill Team/Deadzone and tOW anf Kings of War over many years says that I can expect Warpath to have depth without unnecessary complexity. I know about legion from friends who plays it so can not tell how deep the rules are but number of units does not mean real options.

[@danm830]

Epic Warpath has 100+ unit types already, and 2 more factions to unlock...

[@michaciemniewski9791]

@@danm830true... !

[@jpr3661]

Warpath looks really cheap. And it's actualy cheapper than LI. LOL

[@marekskyrim]

Warpath is a Kickstarter, it's already dead before arrival. It can never compete with a GW product that is already out. And Mantic Games isn't that reliable with their games outside of KoW...Armada is a failure dropping to .stl files only, they made a dumber version of Dungeon Saga with poor translation in other language than english, Vanguard is basically abandonned and who heard of anything new with Dreadball nowadays ?...basically they're only talking to their english fanbase, mostly in UK, and don't really care about the rest before chasing the dragon in their next new game (and another Kickstarter to gather quick buck from their loyal fanbase). It's funny when people try to compare a Kickstarter still in campaign and a GW product. Of course it's not a fair comparison. Kickstarter projects usually turn out in vaporware once Hype is out and product is delivered (especially wargames). They don't have any real presence on long term in retail shops, let's not even talk about building a gaming community out of it. Since Mantic Games is never going to have a strong presence like GW's dedicated stores to recruit new blood, it will always be subpar and players will always struggle to find someone to play with at their games - in particular those outside of their "main ones" like KoW. It's not even a question of price or rule quality, really.

[@colinmack8655]

You are comparing a company of 29 people to the third largest employer in Nottingham. They are not the same.

[@thehobbyhabit]

I generally understand the larger arc of your opinion. You are right in that in some areas of the globe you do have a higher chance of encountering HH:LI being played in a game store. I think how long and where that can occur is all determined by the local gaming scene. If that is important to you, then yes, obviously the GW title and the currently published game, is where you should go. I raise strong suspicions that being able to encounter HH:LI in a store naturally will probably be fleeting. As to a game being dead on arrival just because it came through Kickstarter, I have not found that experience at all. I play a whole host of Kickstarter boardgames, RPGS, and yes ... miniature games. Why are they still "alive" for me? The company delivered a fully intact well playing game, and I always get two playable factions/armies, at a time. The game is forever "alive" in that state to me, personally, regardless of who is playing it at my local game stores. X-wing, Magic, and 40K are really the local scene, with a dash of Warlord IPs thrown in. It's really my friends and family that play Mantic Games, or ANY game, with me. I think Mantic does a great job of delivering throw back experiences with a modern treatment. I'm probably more in their core target demo' than a competitive or local game store player. I just have so much more faith in Mantic, in delivering a good gaming experience for me, than in GW.

[@spamerling833]

In our area GW isn't played anymore since months our main club. Just sometimes two guys play Kill Team. Casual we play Mantic Games (especially Deadzone and KoW) besides Warlord Games historicals and Corvus Belli games.

[@farplaine]

The classic “this is how it is everywhere and for everyone because it is my personal local experience and belief”

[@petermueller5069]

Lol. The GW Shop where I live doesn't let people play with their armies they bought there. So they come to our gaming club to play and learn about other games.