The TOP 10 Reasons Warhammer The Old World Players should try A Song of Ice and Fire

[@macarfs]

I think for me ASOIAF is a game first and a hobby second where as GW main games are a hobby first and a game a distant 2nd. I can't remember the exact figures but something like 70% of GW main line product owners have never actually played a game. There's nothing wrong with this but if you're coming from a board game background or own GW and wish you could get it to the table more I would definitely recommend ASOIAF.

[@imperialminis857]

That's a really crazy stat, but I have definitely seen that myself. I think the GW rulesets can be so dense and unintuitive that they are not very approachable by more casual players. There's no arguing that GW makes some of the finest looking models out there though.

[@trentdarling4416]

Two weeks ago I was shopping online for an Old World Empire army but a friend convinced me to try ASOIAF first. I now have purchased two full armies with extra units of Baratheons and Nights Watch for less than what I was going to spend on my Old World Empire army. I also was able to read the rules, unbox the game and play a full game with a friend quicker than I was able to read the rules for the Empire on the Old World. Best decision I've ever made. For the algorithm!

[@imperialminis857]

It’s almost as if my Top 10 Reasons were all acted out in your life. Amazing! You are a legend, darling.

[@art840412]

Asoiaf is the first wargame I play, and I got a feeling that this is one of the best tabletop wargame out there! Guess I’m lucky 🎉

[@irishtom30]

It's a really fun game, and I've even played with some people who aren't into the books or show at all. Having all the info in front of you and not having to remember too much is a huge strength

[@imperialminis857]

There are a surprising number of players who aren’t into the books or show! They enjoy the game despite not caring about the surrounding lore. That’s a pretty good indication of a strong game system, in my estimation.

[@nachtalb8394]

For the Algorythm!! Cool Video

[@janplonka7143]

Why exactly is less complexity in rules and less modeling a good thing? I personally think those are negatives but I don't think it's a good argument in either direction

[@imperialminis857]

There’s definitely a factor of personal preference in any of these “top 10 reasons”. That said, I would argue that most players would rather bring a free 30 page softcover rulebook to a game than multiple tomes they had to pay for. Less required hobbying on the minis is another matter of personal preference, but is definitely one that is more approachable to newer tabletop hobbyists or those without the time, desire, or resources to assemble minis. That said, there are a bunch of people in the ASOIAF community that customize and kitbash their ASOIAF minis, so the option is still there.

[@joeblogs8049]

Pros: Alternating turns though is great, I've lost patience with 40k ages ago. Don't like the aesthetics of Fantasy/magic. Cons: I don't like character focused games, particularly named characters. Cards as well sounded dubious.

[@imperialminis857]

I couldn’t see myself going back to any game that doesn’t utilize alternating activations. It’s just so much more interactive and you’re not stuck sitting there for 30min while your opponent has their way with you. Although ASOIAF has lots of characters it, those characters really just add additional abilities or stat modifiers to the units they’re in. There isn’t really any hero-on-hero single combat going on, so it still feels very much like an army game thankfully.

[@geertbeekman8680]

i want to play a game and not a game in a game

[@clemred]

It s been a year since i stopped playing Warhammer because of ASOIAF That's the best wargaming decision i made for years

[@imperialminis857]

Glad to have you! 😄

[@theironforest1072]

As a fan and player of both, I would highly recommend not only the game, but this channel.

[@FeliPeltier]

Yep.. I am done with Warhammer Fantasy (or old world) which makes me sad, but ASOIAF is just more fun to play and it’s waaay cheaper.

[@raahhhhhhhh]

Awesome video, have been debating getting into ASOIAF and this might push me over the edge. Only thing is I'm worried about the number of players in my area.

[@imperialminis857]

Fortunately, this game pretty much sells itself when people see it played on the table. If you take a leap and show the game off to some local players, you might be surprised to see the interest grow. There's also a Tabletop Simulator (TTS) mod for this game, if you want to try it there first.

[@marshallbravestarr2117]

Consider to get two small armies at once. Not much is needed to get 2 full 40 point armies. It might not be competitive, but it is the full game experience.

[@andraslibal]

Games Workshop refugees welcome :))) CMON, unlike GW does not make the last release an over-buffed faction and a must get, in fact they work hard on keeping the game balanced and every army usable with yearly updates. Also, a whole unit of 12 infantry or 4 cavalry or 2 monsters, with tray and card and ready to deploy costs around 30 euros, and sometimes if you are looking for sales, less. Miniatures come readily assembled and they have very good details to paint and you will finally paint something else than yet another space marine. The GoT universe is a beautiful medieval universe with spearmen, swordsmen, dragons, giants, elephants, mammoths and direwolves and it is not such a grimdark and gloomy universe. You can actually play a game and enjoy the tactics and combos without needing the manual! the rules are simple and the strategy is complex as it should be. Everything is on the cards. Tournaments are far more friendly than in the Warhammer world. Also, a Song of Ice and Fire is finally something different not the same GW stuff every store has.

[@imperialminis857]

Good points!

[@rampantrambling]

Both games are good, but Song is imo the best modern rank and flank ruleset on the market.

[@RololoTheOneAndOnly]

Switched and its so much fun

[@juggernautmoshe1]

Definitely a great rank and file wargame, Was a really pleasent surprise, as I thought that with the track record of CMON for flashy plastics board games with very simple rules, this game has an ocean of depth to it.

[@daniellogue8365]

Asoiaf is just such a cleaner ruleset, and the political intrigue is done so well

[@RavenShinyThings]

Pretty much most fantasy wargames will be better and cheaper than GW cringe. They ruin there own potential.

[@Shooterpirat]

Man, great video! Was thinking about getting into the old world, but came to asoiaf instead. You really hammer down good points why asoiaf is a great game. And to my taste its much better than oldworld, because of so many reasons. But tactics board, rules and alternating activations are my top 3! Well done, thanks for that. Will show it to whomever it may concern 😅

[@imperialminis857]

Glad you landed on ASOIAF! Thanks for the support.

[@neuro_4385]

What I will say about Warhammer's extensive **granular** list building is how good it is for role-playing a faction of your invention. I prefer the gameplay of ASoIaF by a long shot though. It's so tactical, but is still thematic AND quick to play. Not fun trying to persuade non-wargamer friends to play warhammer on tabletop lol

[@imperialminis857]

ASOIAF is definitely more approachable than Warhammer, and easier to pick up for new players. That said, it is very strategically deep, as you mentioned. It feels like you need to fill out a spreadsheet to put together any army in Warhammer. In ASOIAF, you can just lay out your unit cards on the table, or in your War Council app and you’re good to go.

[@tannermccollum7060]

For the Old world I'm thinking about doing a legacy army that way I have an army and keep it forever. Though I will admit the simplicity of ASOIAF looks fun too!

[@imperialminis857]

That’s a good idea, as long as you can remain disciplined and resist the urge to buy new armies. 😄

[@AdvancedSquadLeader]

The biggest realization I have come to in the past 2-3 years is that more complexity does automatically mean more fun or immersive. I used to be of the opinion that you needed to play very complex games for there to be interesting decision, I was wrong. While the rulebook is not "complete" and there is ambiguous interactions between different mechanics in ASOIAF TMG I feel like it offers (to the average player, maybe not the top 1%) very interesting decisions and compromises you have to make through the game. I think ASOIAF TMG has found a sweet spot of sorts, where picking it up is easy enough, but there is also a lot of interesting decision to make both in list building, terrain placement and actual tactical decisions within each game

[@imperialminis857]

Very well-said!

[@warkatwargaming2358]

Excellent video. I play bother and they they both have their merits but this did some of the stronger comparisons

[@almister]

What do you think of the license being picked up by Knight Models, do you think it will affect the game and what about house of the dragon?

[@imperialminis857]

Knight Models just has the license to the HBO show, not to the books. I don’t know much at all about their GoT game or their previous games unfortunately. The models for their GoT game look gorgeous, but they’re not the same scale as ASOIAF: TMG, so sadly they can’t be used in the CMON game. The upcoming CMON game, ASOIAF: Tactics will have an expansion that deals with the events of “Fire and Blood” (from which the House of the Dragon show is based). The Tactics game is the same scale as ASOIAF: TMG, and CMON has confirmed cross-compatibility, so there’s a good shot that we’ll eventually get a HotD-period expansion to the tabletop minis game using the minis from Tactics. So, not only is CMON developing a new skirmish sized game, but many of the minis for that game will be useable in the tabletop game. Such a brilliant move!

[@brentr926]

Great job, I recently bought Bretonnians out of nostalgia for WHFB, with much of my group. Trouble is I’m so spoiled by ASOIAF that putting together and basing scores of models seems an onerous task, now that the excitement has worn off lol.

[@imperialminis857]

Thanks Brent. Nostalgia is a heck of a drug! I think a lot of folks will encounter the same situation that you have. They'll get hyped to relive some of the feeling of the old WH:FB, but then get smacked with the reality of the task before them.

[@snarkymcsnarkface1863]

My biggest single reason for giving asoiaf a shot is because it is not GW... Started with greyjoy, added Bolton and neutrals. I am now looking at painting up Starks for my brother. It has been a great addition to my primary hobby time along with Battletech and infinity.

[@imperialminis857]

It’s such a great game in its own right and a much better deal than just about anything GW has on offer.

[@harriettubmangaming9792]

I rarely play any games nowadays but when i have the urge for mass battle i almost always play ASOIAF using other models and figures as I have a large collection of retro Prince August fig, the way the game worksis just so clean and fun I doubt any other system will conquer it for me!

[@imperialminis857]

That’s awesome! I’d love to see what those minis look like on the table in a game of ASOIAF. Since the rules and cards for ASOIAF are all free on the developer website, it makes proxying pretty easy, as long as you have the unit tray sizes correct.

[@harriettubmangaming9792]

@@imperialminis857 they work quite well, but are a little small for the official unit trays which I have been using, so sometimes I will put two figures in each slot!

[@Wynnar]

I played ASOIAF for a while but in the end, decided that it's not for me. Too gamey as opposed to others I've played. Meanwhile, the latest fantasy battle, TOW feels like a fresh take on the old game I grew up with.

[@marshallbravestarr2117]

It should be mentioned that playing out of the box means slightly outdated rules. Nothing serious as the rules are just refined from version to version. But when you want to play up to date (e.g. tournament), you will have to print the new versions of the unit- and tactics cards.

[@imperialminis857]

Yes, good point. Some starter boxes’ cards are more outdated than others. But thankfully the War Council app always has the most updated cards on it for reference. And the updated cards are available for download on the CMON ASOIAF for print-and-play.

[@benpiehler4667]

Glad I found this. We just came home with a couple starter packs!

[@imperialminis857]

Awesome! Welcome to ASOIAF!

[@irgilligan]

100%...only then will ToW fans see how profoundly poorly written and archaic the ruleset is. If only they could have gotten competent designers to actually make a game that looks like it was designed in the 2020s

[@WillGodar]

I could never get into Warhammer due to the commitment required to get something to the table and the feel bad moment when I was halfway through building/painting an army and heard that they were considered unplayably bad. Best advice I saw for ASOIAF is to pick the army that looks cool to you. That could be based on playstyle, miniatures, lore, favorite character, whatever. Do that and you'll have a good time. I'm saying this as a Greyjoy player just so you know I didn't happen to stumble onto a super powerful army by accident.

[@imperialminis857]

That’s the best advice there is for picking a faction in ASOIAF: pick whichever faction whose models or lore appeals to you most. Compared to some games, ASOIAF is currently very well balanced, so almost every faction can be competitive in the local scene.

[@radkusmagnus4991]

The game actually kinda saved my interest in the ASOIAF world and lore in general, after the second half of GoT did everything in its power to kill it. Also, I'd say the ruleset is vastly more polished. Units and abilities have clearly defined meaningful purpose. Much unlike the GW's ruleset, which forces you to constantly go through an incongruous list of 15 minuscule buffs and aura effects that in the end don't amount to much. The tactics cards works exactly where stratagems (one of the worst and most unwieldy parts of the 40k ruleset) fail. Thanks for your content.

[@imperialminis857]

I’m glad some of these top tens resonated with your interest in the game, and that’s awesome that this game rekindled your interest in the world of ASOIAF!

[@bernhardeisl7382]

"alternating activations" should be the first and most important point haha Games workshop "I go you go" system is tedious at best.

[@bernhardeisl7382]

Also the app and the cost haha

[@imperialminis857]

Alternating activations is definitely one of the most important points. It’s so common in game design today that it’s hard to fathom why some GW games still use “I go, you go”, except for pride or nostalgia?

[@ianwilborn8239]

This is a great breakdown of ASOIAF and makes me really want to try it.

[@imperialminis857]

Thanks for the feedback! I’m glad to hear the video piqued your interest in ASOIAF.

[@ianwilborn8239]

@@imperialminis857 I’m definitely gonna check out your other videos too!

[@imperialminis857]

@ianwilborn8239 Please do! There are quite a lot of them. There’s a new faction coming out in December as well, the Brotherhood Without Banners, so it’s an exciting time to get into the game.

[@sitrucsimian5450]

Great video.

[@dariostabletopminatures]

Thank you so much for This One!

[@matt3452]

Play both, best 2 games I played

[@333teapot]

I've played both, the biggest difference I found is combat in ASOIAF is much faster, usually being decided in the turn its initiated. Old world is much less lethal, giving time for other units to react and wheel in to provide or deny support

[@dariostabletopminatures]

How do I choose the Factoin I want to play? Army look...watching Battlereports?

[@imperialminis857]

I’d recommend checking out the official game website to see the list of factions. Perhaps look at the available units on an online retailer to see which factions’ unit models you like best. Ultimately, when you’re getting started in the game, I’d advise picking the faction you think looks coolest or whose lore you like best. Once you’ve narrowed it down to a few factions, then maybe watch some battle reports that feature those factions to see which one you think you’d like the playstyle of most. When I started the game, I focused purely on the faction that I liked the most aesthetically (Greyjoy) and went from there. I play several factions now but only play/paint those that I like the look/playstyle/lore of.

[@imperialminis857]

Also, like I mentioned in the video, the official game app, War Council, has all the game’s unit cards, tactics cards, etc bound up into an army builder, so you can see what every single unit does from your phone.

[@dariostabletopminatures]

@@imperialminis857 I will! Thank you!

[@dariostabletopminatures]

@@imperialminis857 Thank you so much for this Advice. Greyjoy looks Amazing. Stark... I love Targeryan, Riders and Dragons. I will keep you updated!

[@dariostabletopminatures]

@@imperialminis857 I got my Targaryan Starter and will play my first 40p GAME TODAY. I am thinking about Selling a Few GW Minis and Armies to get more ASOIAF! GW killed my Deathwatch Army.

[@Brom126]

I Love your tokens! The panicked one is the best!

[@imperialminis857]

That’s my favorite too! Check out this amazing Etsy shop to see where I got the tokens, my tactics board, rulers, and more: www.etsy.com/shop/GianniVincentt

[@House_Forrester]

Man I love your content. I recently got into ASOIAF but frankly I can't think of any other system I'd rather play. I love it so much I decided to buy every faction i could possibly buy. I want to make sure CMON and ASOIAF continues to grow and get bigger over time. I will buy every unit to ensure my I can continue to support ASOIAF and CMON by extension. I will build my local Queensland community as best as I can.

[@imperialminis857]

Thanks, I’m glad you’re enjoying the videos! That’s some serious commendable commitment there. Just be cautious not to bite off too much at once and burn yourself out. I’ve been playing the game for several years now and even I don’t own all the factions. Too each his own, but I feel like if I owned all of them, I might not put as much focus on any one faction, as I’d be jumping around between factions too quickly. Local ASOIAF communities are the life-blood of this game, and being a local champion of the game can be very rewarding if you’re able to grow the game in your area. It’s really a game that sells itself once people see it on the table. I had good success in the past hosting learn-to-play events at local stores, letting people learn the game playing starter box armies. If you have any painted armies yet, those also really help build local interest at these events. Best of luck and thanks for the support!

[@ruthnik]

great video randal "song is great" .. but make lannister great again :(

[@guiguipapa5169]

Lannister are still strong, but require more thought than just pushing guys forwards

[@imperialminis857]

Lannister still has a solid tactics deck, but I think their unit lineup is feeling a little sad right now. Lannister still has a lot of potential, but I think the meta is still shaking out a bit for them. They need to find their new footing.

[@ruthnik]

@@guiguipapa5169 definition of strong "not at the very last spot" - units are just weak and commanders are few that actually cut .. anything

[@ruthnik]

@@imperialminis857the units really are lackluster and not really enjoyable to bring

[@guiguipapa5169]

@@ruthnik they have a very good 4 point unit (Poor Fellows), 5 point unit (Halberdiers), 6 point unit (Crossbowmen) and 8 point unit (Knights of CR). I'm not saying they don't need some love from the devs, but they aren't rubbish.

[@Yecatsminiatures]

Great video Randall. Really well put together and lots of solid points. Keep it up 😊

[@imperialminis857]

Thanks Grant!

[@ElPeggo33]

It’s great that you recommended other games at the start of the video. Really enjoying your channel and ASOIAF TMG

[@imperialminis857]

There are a lot of great games out there in the same sandbox as ASOIAF! I’m glad you’re enjoying the channel. Thanks for the support!

[@PietKargaard]

Played warhammer fantasy together with my son years back after a couple of games our armies have been sitting at the attic mainly due to not enough people to play against and the insane investment needed both money and time wise, we both play ASOIAF now and are not looking back.

[@imperialminis857]

Great to hear that! It sounds like some of the reasons I mentioned in the video apply to your situation.

[@xammit7579]

Have to agree with every of those points!

[@derwolfimschafspelz]

Great vid, keep em coming!

[@jeancouscous]

I actually did the opposite, i sold all the ASOIAF stuff i got to get into the old world. Even as a fan of the ASOIAF universe, the warhammer universe as a wargame appeals to me way more. ASOIAF is a good game, it's well done, but it's too boardgamey for my taste. nothing else beside humans factions visually (2 giants and a 3 dragons is not cutting it), the figures are fine but boring to me.

[@imperialminis857]

Thanks for the comment. Out of curiosity, do you mind identifying the boardgamey elements? Are you mostly referring to the tactics cards? Or also the NCUs/ tactics board?

[@goodbyeproject24]

Kings of war for alls

[@marshallbravestarr2117]

Did you try both? I would like to hear more.

[@liangweihao7932]

Problem is, many of the initial negatives you mention are what many gamers like about Warhammer. The countless hours listbuilding is a hobby in itself, as is the assembling and painting and converting the miniatures. While the tactics board and NCUs is a great game mechanic, it seems silly that there is so much jockeying for off-table tactics, strategies and influence for what is essentially a tiny skirmish of very, very tiny forces. While the scale of Warhammer has also reduced with time (long gone are the huge big blocks of regiments), it is still larger and grander than ASOIAF. ASOIAF still seems to me to be more of a hybrid boardgame/wargame due to its scale and smart but boardgamey mechanics, rather than a true blue wargame. Warhammer, for all its bloat, unwieldiness and lack of refinement, fulfils that role that ASOIAF never could.

[@jeancouscous]

It's well done but it was annoying to me all the gotcha cards and bullshit mechanics that comes to you at each of your actions.

[@sasquachy77]

As long as skavens or orks are not part of the ASOIAF I'm not interested 🤷‍♂

[@marshallbravestarr2117]

Maybe don't think of asoiaf as a hobby but as a game (like Catan) you play because of the good rules. Ignore this comment, if you are playing because of the fluff 👍

[@jeancouscous]

I got many games with good rules that are more fun than ASOIAF personally, also as every miniatures games that are not GW, local scene end up dying, been there done that many many times (warmachine, guildballs...) @@marshallbravestarr2117

[@DickFitzwell0917]

Reason 1- ASOIAF is fun Reason 2-10 It is way cheaper than anything GW!

[@Fart_Boy]

Great video! It's a subject I often think about and i hope this video gets traction

[@imperialminis857]

Thanks!