Episode 108 | Getting Real with the Enneagram: Four - The Individualist

[@sarahgreenshield1162]

I think part of the reason a 4 can be so perpetually sad is because we need to feel unique, and we can’t feel that without also feeling like we are alone in our struggles. it’s a paradox, and with our constant negative self talk, we don’t understand how we can be simultaneously unique and special, while also not being alone.

[@Seeker0fTruth]

sarah greenshield you are SO RIGHT!!!

[@reginawatson1253]

𝗧𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗜𝘀 𝗜𝘁!!! 💯😩

[@marianachavez]

you know, i feel like we also find a beauty in sadness

[@catrinacute8359]

EXACTLY. ☹️

[@catrinacute8359]

😂 it hit me

[@em5353]

I'm a four and one very four types of envy that I have dealt with (mostly when I was younger, but still in certain instances when I'm unhealthy) is being envious of the hard times and sufferings of others. I know it sounds strange, but I was jealous because I thought that they felt more and grew more and I wanted that.

[@jeskaok1577]

Yesss when somebody has the most devastating testimonies I'd get oddly jealous...... You really have to be careful what you wish for.

[@carelican]

i used to be jealous of people with depression and anxiety because i felt so boring and normal. i am so mad at myself for wishing that on myself because i got what i wished for lmao rip

[@Crystal-pq8hj]

I am so blessed to have found this. I often struggle as a 4 with did God forget me... I felt like my faith was wavering as I have done everything I was guided to do, even leaving my children to Move to an Indian Reservation as I strongly heard God speak to me. I was told I abandoned my children, people judged me, I am hear all alone and hated for my skin color, despite working as a nurse. I would have rather died on the cross honestly. Yet I came a-crossed this video and I just wanted to let your all know how very inspiring and brought some peace to my heart. Thank you.

[@verasmith9544]

As a 4, I really appreciate the people who are willing to sit with me while I wrestle with God. And I am eternally grateful for those who let me sit with them while they wrestle. I'm almost 70 & what I realize is this: wrestling w/God appears ugly & most types aren't willing to share that. So I really do appreciate those who share with me.

[@AimeeAmaris]

"Jealousy/envy magnifies the hole in ME and magnifies the WHOLENESS of them" I felt that. Also, love the biblical perspective of the Enneagram. I didn't know that was possible, ya'll should do this with the MBTI!

[@gracesanity6314]

This is so nourishing for me as a 4. It's a Brill conversation. Thank God for this and for you all. Ireland

[@daringgreatly8473]

There is so much wisdom in this! 4s will be drawn to the dark hurting person and get sucked in.

[@deanjensen2174]

Thanks for the real spiritual perspective of a 4. I am a proud 4w5 artist and fully identify with the series and debrief. What has been problematic for me is finding material that helps in aiding 4 parents raise children. Being the 4w5 parent and its challenges and pitfalls. Its a tough challenge for 4's loving and raising children through their beautifully disruptive natures, besides need to be a good present and considerate husband. Children demand attention and constant interaction, especially when infants, and this I personally have experienced as massive stress. My safe quite place is basically gone, because one has to be responsive to your kids' needs, but it is exceptionally tough to stay out of my dark spaces and spirals with the demands that children bring with them. There really is nowhere to hide.

[@rebeccachastain9152]

Dean Jensen this is where I am as a 4 stay at home mother.

[@deanjensen2174]

I have had huge perspective shifts over the last few weeks around these. Through a Mentor, I have come to start embracing my gift of powerful influence and I am running at time with my kids, letting them into my spaces and allowing what I have to reach them. I have started viewing them as artworks that will contain my best, incisive work and the time I have with them will not be as open to me forever. Its been a huge release for me to give myself permission to be myself with them and in turn to pass on so much abstract and nuance to them that God has given me.

[@Seeker0fTruth]

Dean Jensen Wow super cool! Thanks for sharing!

[@Seeker0fTruth]

Rebecca Chastain - right there too and been spiraling downward for the last 6 months or so...

[@crazyleaf257]

Oh my gosh the part about working out and getting your mind body and soul all in the right place is so good! That’s what I’ve been discovering

[@madisonhartley4555]

one great thing about 4s is their ability to spot inauthenticity ;)

[@blueskygal255]

I was reviewing my values when authenticity popped out and I had never seen that about myself before but it is absolutely true. I can't stand phonies and hypocrites. It put me at odds with my 6 father who courted social superficial approval and labels.

[@deadmanwalking1930]

Unhealthy 4, No idea how to be any other way. The reason I am unhealthy? Society, the state of this world, years and years of never having my view points taken seriously, people thinking I am a fool when I state what is wrong with the world, I am just a silly boy, well I am NOT, I see the world for what it really is and would LOVE for it to be different, to be accepting, to encourage each other, to see NO borders, to see facts and evidence prevail and not society bowing down to money, money and money. To have the rich 1% NOT controlling our governments. When I express this no one gets it, I just feel more and more alienated and frustrated and isolated. I try to reach out to people to find someone like me, again brick wall. The only joys I can have is 1, my loving dog, my wife and cannabis/music.

[@joevex1279]

I’m also a 4 and see what’s wrong with the world , it’s like everyone else is still asleep

[@juliaschmidt4975]

As a 4 I struggle with that as well. It makes me feel sick. During those times I have to be purposeful in avoiding the news, or people who talk about that kind of stuff. I have to go be in nature. This election season has been horrible. I have to go dig into God's word and find his goodness. Hugs!

[@YEDxYED]

All fours are artistic. Art doesn’t just have to be about drawing, writing etc

[@heatheralbano5768]

Can we hear more from the 4s than the 3 on the 4 experience? 🙄

[@blueskygal255]

Yes this is not facilitated properly. The 3 wants all the attention.

[@anitadodd]

I scored 98% 2 and 90% 4. (I haven't taken your test yet) I answered the questions based on what I think makes me happy, but now that I know I am a 4, I don't know how I could have thought any different. I think it is the labels and stereotypes that threw me off like fours have a whispery voice and rebel against the norms. We all do things a little different, but is the core things that I completely identify with, and there are times and circumstances where I do push back against norms.

[@katherinegraffeo5363]

As a 4 we also go to 2 in stress (if maybe that influenced your results at the time?). I notice my 2 side, a desire to “help and over love on others” comes out when I’ve neglected self-care and begin to feel insecure. Something in me is still stirring to “feel noticed and special” but completely disconnected from my authentic self.

[@BreaCMoore]

Thank you for being real people! Love this series, and the sermons on specific enneagrams and parallel bible stories. 💛

[@crazyleaf257]

Amen living in community!! I have been so blessed to grow up in a church where people tell you the truth in love and I’ve had so many people help me to get out of my feelings and into the truth! And I have grown so much! Praise the Lord!

[@vishalinarayanan4340]

Wow. I've been looking for such a good resource on fours for so long- thank you for this.

[@zachmcduffie5808]

Wow, 17 minutes in and I'm already having "aha!" moments. I definitely needed this to understand myself as a four!

[@TimMcGrauc]

At first I was upset that I didn't have a song on Sunday, but now I'm so happy I can listen to it over and over again! I was so nervous it wasn't going to be special and capture my emotions but it was remarkably accurate and inspiring❤ such a blessing!

[@katherinegraffeo5363]

Wowwwwww love love love this so much! Love the energy in the room too ❤️

[@crazyleaf257]

Y’all this is so good! I’ve been talking to my four friends lately and I’ve been able to find that joy that the seven has and to stay positive but I see my friends him who are not yet in that mature place and I see them being brought down by people who are negative and they see it my friend my four friends sees that that kind of thing is unhealthy for him and so I was able to encourage him that he needs to surround himself and to invest in relationships that are positive and that push him to be better andWhen he is secure in himself he can help others

[@YasminsSofa]

Rachel Fagan rr

[@cindylcarpenter-canales5374]

oh wow, I got on my test- highest was 8 and the second highest was a 4. When I got that, it made me question what my answers were, because I don't see myself as very artistic. So, I'm glad you gave that tip at the beginning.

[@devinbrines]

It looks like 4w3's are good listeners

[@KCN007]

So good we lose focus on small talk

[@RandolphTheWhite1]

I really identified with using exercise as a means to stay grounded. I'm pretty sure I would've lost my mind had I not started exercising at a young age. Well, I have lost my mind but it would've happened sooner without exercise

[@Seeker0fTruth]

I need to know how to get to being a healthier 4... I’m really struggling and in the “death spiral”... Suggestions please!!!

[@choco1199]

Try finding a 7 friend🙂💕

[@blueskygal255]

Start focusing on and doing things you enjoy. The work will pull you out. From a 66 year old 4 whose been there and done that.

[@mellodyb4046]

@@blueskygal255 Very true! New to Enneagram, loving the information.

[@blueskygal255]

@shlbs91 - Yes i too had a close friend in h.s. who mirrored my creativity back to me. Yes, I was too "heavy" for her, she dumped me for someone else but years later came back. I was crushed at the time as i was going thru very heavy stuff at home, separated parents, abusive father.

[@saif5337]

@@blueskygal255 thank you for sharing

[@firefly7069]

yeah... surrounded by negative people. love to help them and suffering actually doesnt draw me down too much. but it costs a lot of energy taking care of them. love sevens. but they usually cant take my negativity. Really great series!!!

[@detoxARNP]

I’m a 4w3, married to a 3 and I have 5 kids!!! The kids pull me out of my spiral but it’s very overwhelming at times

[@theseed210]

This is insightful af can’t wait to go back through all the other ones and watch them

[@daveandpamwilkinson3883]

I am a number 4. Thanks PMB, Stephanie and the crew for a helpful message.

[@kayumochi]

The Enneagram has roots that go back centuries and the modern Enneagram was developed and continues to be refined by serious-minded people but in recent years this psychological tool is being used by non-serious people to increase church membership, sell books, create celebrity, make money, etc.

[@ellcally508]

Yup...

[@ElleMcLemore]

Is anyone else a 4, with 6 as their second highest??

[@BO-uc4me]

Yas!

[@bryapilbrow7371]

I thought I was alone!!!

[@belorama8]

Not me I'm a 4 and my 6 is my lowest. 🤷 Everyone's different even if they have the same primary number.

[@ushaani8912]

I love how the pastor, self-confessed "3" keeps hijacking the conversation whenever HE is not comfortable. Such typical behavior for 3's. Always on the on the defensive for what might make them look bad or (more accurately) creeps ever-so-closely to the TRUTH! 3s HATE the truth! Unless it makes them look magnanimous. And it usually doesn't. Vanity is their sin. It manifest in EVERY waking moment. As a 4, I cannot get along with them because I absolutely refuse to cater to it.

[@Oddity00]

Good eye.

[@cy_denl33]

Yeah the pastor really annoys me too, now that you mention it :o

[@shannonluzchris]

Dude!!!!! I felt that too sometimes throughout the episode. After reading the comments now I know it wasn't just me lol. Must be a four thing hahaha

[@chickpea7168]

Haha. I think he just has a lot of insight and understanding in the enneagram. He definitely took the lead, but I appreciated how well he was able to explain things so well and accurately. But I also LOVED hearing from the fours on their experiences, that was really great.

[@awilson8521]

As a 4 married to a 3, and whose best friend is a 3, I couldn't disagree more. I love 3s! They're bold, and get tasks done, and they're typically optimistic. Plus, the 3s in my life love the truth, and seeking truth. Also, vanity is a sin of 4s too 🤣

[@MichaelSmith-jz7xg]

Just a question: do you find that a lot of Fours are naturally immune to antidepressants? I've tried many of them and nothing seems to work...my serotonin is ALWAYS low. Maybe depression is just a fact of life for us that can't easily be treated (unfortunately).

[@detoxARNP]

Michael Smith there are doctors who can help you with healing your body so your neurotransmitters and hormones can normalize

[@lindamaxie]

I am a Four. After suffering off and on with depression for most of my life, I have tried many antidepressants. Long story short, the best thing that worked for me was Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Best to you!

[@CuddleClaw.]

Electromagnetic therapy helped me. I did it 5x per week for 8 weeks. A month after I ended treatment, I felt the depression lift. That in combination of working on “self care” has kept the depressive feelings away, when they wash over me, it only lasts a few minutes to a few days, or if I’m highly stressed, two weeks.

[@Mbalz779]

Try stoicism

[@aCrAzYw]

"Creating worlds"- as a 4, funny because in sims i can be someone from a different point of view.

[@Dartagnan010]

Loved this, but the pastor talks too much! Let the fours explain their experiences as fours, no need to tell it for them!

[@carelican]

when i'm sad, i tend to desire isolation. being away from my friends in quarantine makes me sad. i am confused.

[@liabw05]

Same! The 4 contradiction!

[@crazyleaf257]

When you don’t feel like going to church or reading your Bible or going to small group that’s when you need to! Amen amen amen

[@wordlywise2347]

I am 4W5 with 4 -- 98 percent and 5-- 89 percent. I don't understand myself. What am I who am I I getting too depressed and run in cave

[@MC-mm5wk]

42:40 on the flip side is the gift - it’s the same principle of The Secret. Annoying ppl see the negative in 4s, wonder why 4s wind up seeing it too.

[@John-3_16]

E4 in da house!! Great episode! What Enneagram test are you referring as mentioned on this episode?

[@ushaani8912]

"Andrew you've got lots of sugar" "Oh boy do I" The template for coming out as gay in the church

[@LetsMeetHalfway]

This series is amazing. Thank you for doing these videos! Where/how can I take your test?

[@cantante189]

Which podcast is the one where you talk about same-sex attraction?

[@cantante189]

I want to take your test - is it available somewhere?

[@k.strive46]

type in "free enneagram test" on google

[@Rebecca.Daydream]

You guys keep talking about healthy and unhealthy scores(?) I took the enneagram before finding this series. Is there a specific version of the test that shows these scores???

[@Rebecca.Daydream]

Obviously wrote that comment at the beginning of the video...haha

[@Mimty25]

Where can we take the test? What website?

[@KarenGraceBondoc]

what is the title of the song in the end? Thanks

[@sirakasfaw8350]

What test are you referring to around the 6:30 mark?

[@mambojambostudio]

dude! small world! and I was wondering the same question.

[@goke111]

The enneagram test

[@cantante189]

yes, please@Laci Ehlers

[@paigedicarlo2094]

Which enneagram assessment is continually being referenced here?

[@Saraheyp]

I'm curious as well

[@KarinaCrespin]

Think is the sandal Church website

[@Oreark]

What test do you use?

[@kayumochi]

If there is a more accurate online test than this one, I'd like to know about it. It doesn't cost but a few dollars and I have found the free ones are inaccurate. You get what you pay for: www.enneagraminstitute.com/

[@happymimi16]

43:01 feelings don't lie but thoughts lie

[@Melitta-zx4sf]

elaborate

[@ptmchildofgod8346]

Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” ‭‭You can feel ugly but you’re not ugly.

[@marcsa5866]

It’s so me all the way!!!!!

[@TChanProductions]

28:44 RELATE

[@Omfgwhtavid]

Wait, is this enneagram stuff a religious thing?

[@saif5337]

It’s not it’s being used for a religious thing

[@oliviarose4399]

Why isn't anyone talking about how all the huge enneagram teachers tell us NOT to type our children and how dangerous it is to use the enneagram before your twenties?

[@rosvlinds]

Olivia Rose can you elaborate on this? i've been interested in the enneagram since i was about 14 it really helped me become more self aware and healthy.

[@YIchigoY]

Olivia Rose can you explain please

[@monalletinie143]

Why would it be dangerous?

[@jzaaaa4372]

23:23 fantastic

[@jzaaaa4372]

42:12

[@davidgray5001]

can see, in the first second that these two "4s" start speaking, they're not 4s.

[@xy9231]

I think the woman is a 4, the guy really sounds like a 6 to me. Especially when he was talking about 'tell me who I need to be,' and looking to the bible and feeling affirmed by the list of things that god says he is. That's the existential crisis of the 6, unless I'm misunderstanding the 6. 4s don't like being told what to be, in my experience (as a 4). What about the woman didn't strike you as 4? I resonated with a lot of what she said. Making use of time in the darkness, needing to exercise and 'smooth structure' to get out of the heart and into the body, unconsciously demanding emotional depth and intensity out of people to the point that they might be overwhelmed, etc. These are very 4 traits in my mind.

[@terencejohnson4011]

4s are mostly introverts. However there's extroverts also. Our mbti personality trait makes 4s look very very different.

[@crazyleaf257]

💗💚💜💚💚💚

[@nathanimadiyi3589]

30:26 Me

[@tetramegistus]

these two ain't 4s.

[@thedebriefpodcast]

Do you have enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt in a court of law? 😋😚👨🏻‍⚖️

[@chadbevilacqua2746]

Sorry, but his voice 😫

[@thedebriefpodcast]

What do you mean, friend?

[@thedebriefpodcast]

We did an episode on this topic: sandalschurch.tv/watch/Nik4hg13?pl=3

[@kayumochi]

@@chadbevilacqua2746 What in God's Name are you blathering about?

[@Oddity00]

"And contrary to popular opinion, gender matters" grown alt-rightoids lmao

[@ellcally508]

@Lubricated Dorito It is the consensus for now.