Episode 3 Maintenance Part 2

[@quinndo]

I found that if you do an initial turp/degreaser clean on bike with a roller device like the park tool Cylcone or CM-25 it GREATLY reduces the number of turp baths needed. Since for me the chemical is expensive this helps a ton. So 1) clean on bike with machine and turp ~100ml 2) remove from bike then initial hot water bath to save on turps and heat up chain 3) mineral turps bath while chain still hot until clean (usually only need 2x200ml)

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

thanks quinndo good to hear, if i get a chance i will have to do some testing re methods that still ensure 100% perfect prep but with minimal solvent use. Its on the list.... :)

[@bboiteau]

Hi, do you find that wiping the chain with methylated spirits on cloth after a dusty ride is a good idea even if not planning to rewax? Thinking here of getting that dust off the chain before next ride while keeping the wax that’s still good for many more km. Or would that take a bit of wax off the outer chain and be detrimental to contamination resistance for the next rides before re-wax? Thanks in advance @zerofrictioncycling992

[@michaelhotten752]

I hit the chain with compressed air in between baths. helps to force out some of the gunk.

[@richardggeorge]

1. Degrease Procedure: . I use boiling water to remove my pure food-grade paraffin wax lube outside draped over a tree branch 🌴 and wipe down with a rag (no metho required to "clean a dirty chain"). I throw it straight in the melted wax right away. Too impatient to wait for chain to dry. 2: Cleaning brand new chain: a. Cover new chain in cheap spray-can degreaser, wipe down with clean rag (repeat once) b. Shake in turps (once). Wipe down with clean rag. BTW, I reuse my turps many times as I just dispose of last 10% along with the black gunk at bottom of container once it has settled. c. Shake in methylated spirits (once). Wipe down with clean rag. d. Dunk in melted wax Other points: - The performance of paraffin is great. - Cost me just over $20aud for 5kg. - I've barely used any in 3 years (~1kg max) on 8 bikes: 5 X road, 3 X MTB. - chains last forever! (Re-wax at 300-400km intervals) -

[@olitonottero7620]

Thank you so much for sharing this

[@Jeff.Slavich]

Okay, I'm sold on the immersive wax process. On my current chain (probably less than 500-600 miles) I've been using what I now know as one of the poorer performing wet lubes. Given the relatively low milage, can I convert to the wax process and what would be the best process to clean the chain? I'm guessing several baths in the mineral turps and then what? Is there residue that needs to be cleaned off at that point, or can I then go to the wax, once its dried? Also, what about that mess on the cassette? What would be the best way to clean that so that I don't just muck it up again? Would I remove it and go through the same bath process as the chain? Thanks so much for educating me on this. I never realized I was grinding my chain to a slow death.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey Jeffrey! Have a look at the chain prep guide on zfc website - covers all from new to existing chains to prep either for waxing or top drip lubricant. Re the drivetrain that is easier overall just depending on how messy may just take a bit of cleaning time. You dont have to worry about wax bonding to those parts like we do for inside of the chain, so you can clean drivetrain any ol way you like that simply gets it clean so that newly waxed chain is not contaminated by stuff you dont want it to be that could then be imported into wax pot next re wax and contaminate wax. Chain prep guide here; zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/CHAIN-Prep-FAQ-Guide-V2.pdf

[@Jeff.Slavich]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 much appreciated. I kinda figured you had that one already covered.

[@alastairstedman7840]

I wonder if I get a bit too involved with my lubing and cleaning process. I use emulsion waxes. My favorite is SMOOVE. I would use Silca SS but it's quite expensive. On a new chain I do a full factory strip. Then once a week I will clean my chain using a clip on type cleaner, Hot water and regular dish shop. And then once chain is dry reapply using the warmed up smoove, chain on Big/Big and apply to top of chain ( above chainstay) while pedalling. After one full rep I carry on pedalling but apply to the bottom of the chain (under chainstay) after one full rep I keep pedalling until it looks like the lube has at least worked its way under the rollers throughly. I assist working it in by trying to squeeze the chain between finger and thumb as its going around. Then I let it sit for 5-10mins to set a bit. Once it's set a bit I them do one more repeat of the above application process. And let it dry overnight at minimum or 24h at best. For a once a month / race day deep clean, I do all of the above but prior to the dishsoap wash I apply a solvent (either turps or parrafin) with a toothbrush until the chain is dripping and allow that to sit for about 10 mins before proceeding with my regular routine as stated. Currently my chainrings are at about 36000kms and seem to be OK. Over this 36000kms I am on either my second or third cassette (hard to keep track when you have racing and training wheels.) And I replace chains at 0.5. On my birzman "regular" style drop in checker. I've gone through about 5 chains on this drive train (Ultegra 8000) and I am averaging about 6000km per chain. Rainy seasons less (currently in rainy season now and my current chain I would estimate is at about 0.35 and at 3500km) winter chains in South Africa last alot longer for me. My best winter chain managed 8500km. I think I've been doing pretty OK with my wear and tear I think.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

I would say its ok, but it sure is a lot of time. It might be worth a look at the cost to run modelling on website - whilst lubricants like SS drip / ufo drip cost a lot more, they delivered quite notably lower component wear, and over thousands of kms, component wear is by far the dominant cost in your cost to run vs lubricant. Smoove has very good dust contamination resistance, so if you ride dry road, you are not likely gaining a lot from your fastidious maintenance vs letting smoove do its thing, and just concentrate keeping things externally clean. As smoove has significant penetration issues - you run a risk of always encountering that to some degree which will be worst than build up of any contamination inside chain in that period of time by far - i would be doing that every circa 1500km ish for smoove - not flushing weekly or monthly. on the plus side smoove is a notoriously tough lubricant to dissolve, so you may be not cleaning out too much inside anyway. I would be wary of using soapy water without an alcohol flush rinse as soapy film left behind would not help wax bonding to metal of chain. The lifespan kms are - if we compare to what people (and myself) can get from waxed life - it is still short of course, i get 15k from a dura ace cassette, 30k from a steel ultegra. My last chain rings on road i replaced at 50000km, and i didnt have to - wear measure i should have been fine for one 15k chain through them, then replace, but i really wanted to try some other new chain rings. My wifes last chain i replaced at 0.4% at 23,5000km. Ss drip wont quite match immersive waxing, but one could expect it to be about mid way between immersive wax and what you are doing & attaining - but what you are attaining is good, as smoove is a good product - just not quite like the very best known. SS drip is also MUCH more easily reset, boiling water will do a good job for a periodic maintenance - and it has ZERO penetration issues, and is very clean. Effetto mariposa flower power is the lowest wear drip lubricant tested - it runs blacker, but is very smooth and exceptional contamination resistance, zero penetration issues, is $29.90 a bottle which is more palatable for most - so that one may be worth a ponder... but otherwise, if you are happy - be happy :)

[@alastairstedman7840]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 I have never heard of this effetto mariposa lube. I will have to check it out. Off to Google I go!

[@alastairstedman7840]

That flower power wax really sounds like the real deal. I really want to try that. Its just that I don't see where I can get it in South Africa. The reason I am so intensive with my cleaning is because both Smoove and Squirt tend to run black as they age. And I don't like a black drive train. But the flower power sounds like it penetrates well so it will work well with my cleaning habits as if I strip it all off in a wash it will at least penetrate at my next application. But I might just start immersive waxing. Especially on my race bike. I don't know if this has been asked. But how many times can you use an immersive wax? I'm not a huge fan of removing my chain as I worry about the chains durability with repeat removals master link fragility / chain getting weaker from chain breakers. Super Secret costs 490 for a bottle here in South Africa. Which is a bit much. Hopefully Flower Power can be available in South Africa.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@alastairstedman7840 Yes it is extremely good, however note it does also run black. It is a bit more easy to maintain black as squirt & smoove are notoriously tough cleans once they really set hard on chain rings and cogs and chain plates - Effetto wipes off a lot easier. Im not sure on the worries re chain - firstly you definitely definitely do not use a chain breaker when waxing, you must use master links. Read the Master link FAQ guide on website re single use / multi use links (page 8) - its really a nothingburger concern wise. Have a look at episode 17 video - waxing - concise version to see just how easy that path is in reality. ON balance, if it is not easier than trying to periodically clean a smoove or squirt drivetrain, i will be suprised. So many new waxers often wonder what they worried about after the first couple of re waxes. General recommendations would be to re wax by circa 300km, and circa 30 re waxes per bag - so somewhere between 8000 to 10,000km per bag (dry road riding). For most even fairly avid cyclists, that means about one bag per year - so lubricant cost really isnt crazy for the top waxes, and if you are cutting component wear in half, or more, and component wear is BY FAR the dominant cost to run factor per 10,000km - it is an overall big saving vs cost. Same re top lubricants like SS drip / UFO Drip. Have a bit more of a browse of the information resources on the website, they should help you get the right path for you. some countries absolutely it is hard to get the top options delivered cheaply - however again, component wear, not lubricant cost, is the dominant cost by far IF the expensive option is genuinely saving a lot of wear (which is friction), which they do. Have a look at the cost to run modelling which is broken down by component - it should look pretty clear.

[@davidrowe8747]

Exceptionally helpful set of videos - watching a lengthy video, you get a better sense of what the cleaning steps are (and how any there are, re: wet lube)! I ride in the UK, which is often wet and boggy, and have always used wet lube because, well, the marketing says they are for wet conditions. However, I'm working through your videos and Web site, and have listened to your Marginal Gains podcast episode, and am determined to move towards immersive waxing. Quick question: Based on marketing hyperbole, I purchased a bottle of Squirt, but am not now inclined to use it for outdoors riding. I have a dedicated indoor training bike - considering indoor riding is such a "clean" environment, do you think I'd be right in thinking that I could just use the Squirt for the indoor bike - after cleaning off all the wet lube, of course. ;-)

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Thanks David! And yes if you get a chance to check out the key learnings summary video - i expand more re what one should consider for wet weather riding, as well as a summary in the chain maintenance guide - instructions tab. Absolutely the key point for those who ride in wet weather is how easy is it to reset contamination post such riding. Most lubricant options - the treatment lifespan will last for the duration of the wet ride (if it doesnt as one does do very long and harsh conditions rides they do need to ensure they cover that base first). So it is really post wet riding that is most important because if the contamination is not reset - things just go badly even if next rides are in the sun. (Same as if one put some gritty water through their bearings because they took the seals off. Now abrasive stuff is running in the bearings. That doesnt change if next rides are in the sun. One has to clean and re grease them to reset contamination. Same with chain, but its so much more important as the chain works so much harder, and can take other very expensive parts out with it if not looked after). As yet i just cannot see how any other option is easier, faster and more effective to just reset contamination post harsh riding than immersive waxing. The myth of wet lubes for wet riding and waxing not suitable etc is exactly that. Sure a wet lube can cling on, but so does the abrasive contamination. So what happens after that is one is riding with a lapping compound masquerading as a lubricant, and no way is a solvent flush clean faster, easier, cheaper or more effective than simply putting chain back into a bath of super slippery wax. Squirt is problematic if one rides a lot in harsh conditions as a) it is a tougher clean and b) the initial penetration issues make effective re lube post proper clean a bit of faff, or if you dont faff, you can get an initial high wear jump post clean. However for clean conditions riding like ergo - for sure squirt overall is great - it is fast, pretty long lasting per treatment etc and cleaning maintenance intervals - you dont really have to do them as squirt has good dust resistance protection being a wax drip lube. Just follow the advance application guide for smooth (instructions tab) post cleaning wet lube, that only needs to be done once then just apply as normal.

[@ovidiuschiopu5758]

Thanks for sharing. I have converted to waxing and it's been great. To prepare a new chain I am confused as to what to use to get off the factory grease and not leave a film. In your ZEN GUIDE you refer to Mineral Turps - is that the same as Pure Turpentine? or is Mineral Turps another name for Mineral Spirits in Australia vs North America? I understand that the last step is to wash the chain in Methylated Spirits (99% alcohol). Much appreciated!

[@mekanismen]

I had the exact same question, and according to Wikipedia at least, mineral turps is the Aussie name for what we in NA call mineral spirits.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

hi ovidiu apologies i only just saw this comment! Im trying to get better on comments :) Yes best it to use google re what mineral turpentine is called in your country / take wikipedia info on mineral turps to hardware store and ask what is the equivalent there - or - refer to chain prep guide, best overall these days for many countries is to use UFO drivetrain clean - makes it easy and is actually pretty cheap as its so concentrated.

[@kevinmckinney100]

Hey. Thanks for all the great work you do. You mention using UFO Clean before re-waxing after particularly wet/dirty rides. For me I can't justify the price of the product for what it is so I was wondering if there are cheaper alternatives? What if I used white spirits at this step instead and put it through the boiling water again (or mentholated spirits) at the end. Is there any good reason to use UFO instead of white spirits (or alternative) on an already waxed chain, aside from the environmental concerns? Or would it be best to just stick with the boiling water method in isolation if I don't want to buy UFO? Thanks!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey kevin! either boiling water flush rinse and dry post wet ride and before waxing, and or two pot system like a boss as demonstrated in the waxed life like a boss video. If one doesnt ride in wet that frequently - boiling water is a good easy one. If riding in wet (especially offroad) frequently - then two pot system is a great way to go overall - check that out in that vid (sorry links mean comments often deleted, just search waxed life like a boss and skip to that chapter :))

[@kevinmckinney100]

Great. Thanks for the speedy reply. I'll check that video out next 👍

[@rattila13]

I usually give the chain and the container a wipe between rounds of baths, I want the chemicals to get saturated from hard to remove stuff, not grime I can wipe off with a towel.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

yes true, that is a good recommendation for those playing at home to ensure they do. I get a bit lazy on first few just to rip through first 5 baths super quick, and as i am able to recycle turps on site via an alcohol distiller, my cost of solvent is very low vs what a normal user would pay, so dont need to worry as much - but pre these days i did used to do that indeed, and most playing at home should follow that advice

[@PtWhiteBelt]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 I was going to ask how you recycle your chemicals and now I don't have to 😉

[@gilleek2]

I've used a simple coffee paper filter to filter white spirits (which i believe is the same as turpentine) and it gets a fair bit of the dirt out of it. Do you think its okay to use this semi cleaned product for round 2 or 3 of cleaning before round 4 of fresh white spirits to finish off? I guess the other question would be is there a home mechanic version of an alcohol distiller??

[@PtWhiteBelt]

@@gilleek2 fwiw I've also used (cheap) coffee filters for that purpose. It feels good enough for a new 1st pass.

[@Bultish]

Hey, I saw that you are testing candle wax, are you going to add anything? Guess Oz paraffin and ptfe is a common homemade wax, would be cool to se how it stacks up to the more costly options 👍👍 Thanks for this great service sir!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey josef - yes candle wax test update hopefully this friday. But i wont be doing any blends - DIY wax options are never ending, and test time & resources are just too valuable to spend on never ending DIY blends. I am hoping to test gulf canning wax as well before years end - but re playing with additives, that will be up to the diyers - if you have a good base wax, then you can make a good DIY wax. Also very problematic is that one persons candle wax or cheap hardware store wax will vary a lot from anothers - so user experiences with candle wax varies A LOT. It is not recommended vs just buying a decent base wax. If you have a crap wax, adding friction modifiers is a bit of waste of money / lipstick on a pig. Also note the Oz cycles blend is a bit bonkers. Original blend mspeedwax and UFO wax v1 had 5 grams of PTFE (and the good players have moved away from PTFE). Oz cycle recommends 50 effing grams. Best i can tell this figure was not based on objective testing, but a number pulled out you know where with a thought process of that should safely cover the PTFE base. it is extremely wasteful amount as above a small amount it is extremely diminishing return, hence why it used to be 5 grams - based on the worlds most accurate efficiency testing on a $25,000 FTT test machine. So like, not a number pulled out of where the sun dont shine. Also - personal opinion, and your own moral line to draw - but i have an extremely hard time that this guy still has followers and supported channel - not sure if you knew this about him, but trust me, there are plenty of other channels to get cycling content and information where the creator is not a horrific human being. www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-05/steven-john-leffanue-jailed-over-killing-neighbours-dog/101209462

[@Bultish]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 lots of usefull information sir. Don't put make up on a pig we say here in sweden 😄 And I see the problem with testing if you don't have a fixed value to start with ie consistent wax base. What did you use in the test coming this friday? Oh my lord, I did not know that about him. And as many times before, my moral stance is always trying to not throw away the baby with the bathwater. It has happened with alot of musicians, and even if you try to separate their work from their misdeeds it always get tainted somehow. There is enough content on youtube so it wont be hard to forget about this one channel. Once qgain thank you for the information 👍👍

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@Bultish i just bought some from a candle wax online store in aus - what i bought is actually going pretty well from what i can tell from the running sheet, and its overall pretty clean - but yes this will bring a danger when doing the review as it may prompt X number to go well all i need is candle wax, but.... i can assure..... different cheap waxes from different places will bring very different results, making this an N=1 test indeed, and there is in no way the resources avail to test a variety of DIY waxes. DIY waxing is a subset of a subset - i have to concentrate resources on the what is most value for the most cyclists. And yes it always so disappointing when find out someone you previously like or admired is actually..... :( . but some things just cannot be condoned. If there were no laws and no police, how would such people behave and what would they continue to do. I cannot support people who have done / would do things that are just horrific. Sometimes standing up to bad is difficult. SOmetimes it is as easy as no longer actively supporting - in such cases, i think we can all do the latter!

[@dawn_rider]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Unfortunately I am one of those people using the 'bonkers' Oz Cycle 50g PTFE in 500g wax on a KMC Z8 EPT chain ! . I am also waxing a standard Nickel coated Z8 chain as a comparison. So far I have only done about 1500km on each chain ( 300km re-wax intervals ) . If I had not just read your comment on KMC chains in your waxing-how-to-zen-master-guide I would not have known there was an issue. Your link to the ABC story is useful as well as all your other content 🙂

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@dawn_rider yes i really do think he just pulled that figure out of his you know where to cover the PTFE base and it is very wasteful and unnecessary. And i am personally pretty shocked he still has so much support. what does one have to do? and i think many of his followers know as on some of his vids there have been lots of comments on welcome back from jail etc. So people can overlook what he did just for advice on cycling stuff? I guess that helps explain why people like logan paul can be caught out time and again scamming people via crypto schemes yet have massive support from the masses when release a horrific energy drink. The world confuses me at times :(

[@padude131]

Will a degreaser work as good as mineral spirits to prepare for a wax bath. Degreasers seem to be a cheaper.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Typically degreasers are fine. In aus many degreasers are much more expensive than turps, but this can vary in different countries. The main thing to consider with degreasers is that some MAY cause hydrogen embrittlement so no hours long soaks - first one 15 mins ish then smash through the rest, and secondly that they leave a heavier film so one must ensure a good couple of alcohol baths afterwards (metho / iso / acetone etc depending on what is easy / cost effective to get).

[@kristenflethj3573]

Hi Kerin. Appreciate the content. I find that boiling my ss drip still leaves the chain waxy to the touch. Wonder if contamination has still been reset? Regards, Kristen

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi Kristen! Correct, boiling water will not remove all the wax, it will remove a good bit, and so if it is heavily contaminated post wet ride - this helps reduce the amount of abrasive contamination brought into pot, but it isnt meant as a perfect clean (like what one would do for their race chain, but for training chain, it is perfectly groovy). The test is, post boiling water flush cleans, when drying chain initially with cloth, does the chain feel silky smooth? The answer should be yes. Try this post first couple of solvent flush clean baths on a wet lube chain, and oh man you feel the grit crunching away inside chain. **NOTE this is only post wet rides, it is a waste of time, electricity and water to do post dry rides except as part of periodic maintenance every approx 2000km for a top lubricant like ss drip / ufo drip.

[@kristenflethj3573]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Super. Thanks a bunch for getting back to me!

[@adrianhearne3359]

Thanks for the video - very informative! I'm in the UK, so some of the chemical names are different here. I've just invested in three new chains for three different bikes and I'm thinking of going down this route prior to using them on the bike. I'm also going to invest in an ultrasonic cleaner (250W / 40kHz) with heater - will this power be sufficient? I intend to use the ultra sonic cleaner to clean the cassettes, etc. I'm also investing in a £20 slow cooker. Could I use a heat proof glass container with the wax inside it and place the glass container inside my ultrasonic cleaner - instead of buying/using a slow cooker? So I'm guessing that it goes something like this (for brand new, unused chains only): - Take the new unused chain and take the factory grease off by immersing the chain in white spirit (aka mineral spirits) and giving it several washes (X3/X4?) - Strip the white spirit off the chain by emerging it in methylated spirits (aka denatured alcohol) - Allow the methylated spirits time to evaporate from the chain (?time) or speed up this process using heat(?) - Carry out waxing process - in slow cooker or ultra sonic cleaner - Slowly remove the chain from the slow cooker / ultra sonic cleaner just as the wax is beginning to glaze over as the temperature falls off. - Allow chain to hang-dry. Assuming that I only use the same wax for the same chains, then I'm guessing that I'd be able to use the same wax multiple times? If this is the case, then would you agree that I would have to re-wax after around 300-400 miles of use? I'm not sure whether I've missed anything in the above bullet pointed list? Thanks in advance.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi Adrian! I would a) read the wax zen master guide and any relevant questions in FAQ guide, as well as the ultrasonic guide. You mostly have it correct but unless going for race chains, and ultrasonic is very unnecessary and adds a lot of faffing time. You will do a better swishing in general just in a slow cooker vs relying on ultrasonic, most of which will not be powerful enough for waxing only cleaning. And removing close to set temp is a waste of time and makes a huge mess. And an ultrasonic takes forever to heat up to its max temp (normally 80dg c) - usually one will boil up water surrounding wax container - but again - this is for race prep with a more powerful ultrasonic. Your 250w at least 200w, probably more, will be the heating element, unless it is very expensive, you will be lucky if more than 30w is actual ultrasonic power. This is not enough to distribute the friction modifiers in the wax through the wax, most will settle to the bottom of wax as it heats up. In general you should re wax by circa 300km. They can last 400mile, but doing this all the time leaves more chance for wax to get too thin, more contamination in and pressed through wax to have a shot at chain. Re fresh that layer and keep all parts always sliding on a super slippery coating of wax. This is all the rushed version re what you have above it looks like you have obtained some info from other sources - i would read the zfc guides and you will have everything perfect - but mostly just go slow cooker vs ultrasonic. Ultrasonic is brilliant for race chains and or periodic maintenance for wet lubricant users, not for normal waxers.

[@adrianhearne3359]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Many thanks for your reply, it's very good of you to have taken the time to reply! I've just started reading the Wax Zen Master guide and I note that you're note currently recommending that KMC chains are used for waxing due to them having a coating that repels the wax. Unfortunately, two of the three chains that I've bought are KMC. This is because I wanted to be able to remove the chains easily for re-waxing and KMC are the only supplier who I could find who also sell their own quick links for 10 speed chains (one of my bikes is 11 speed and the other two are 10 speed). The chains haven't arrived as yet - so I guess that I could change them for a pair of Shimano 10 speed chains, but this would mean not having the quick link option (unless I'm mistaken here?). I'm glad that I read your guide - but also a bit disappointed that I'll only be able to wax my 11 speed chain by the looks of things?

[@pirminborer625]

I will try following: 2x rinse with boiling water. Then a methylated spirits bath (faster drying, removing possible oil contamination from wet ride). I wonder if adding some graphite/ptfe in the methylated spirits before waxing could improve waxing intervals. Idea is to first get a coating of the metal with the spirits bath, then wax the chain to fix that coating and fill in gaps to protect from contamination. I feel that wax film gets pushed out relatively quickly of the chain rollers when putting down high watts and in summer. I need to rewax about every 200km with silca super secret... Maybe getting some lubricating filler like micronized ptfe in there will keep a gap between contact surfaces such that a bigger wax film can stay on these, allowing for longer intervals.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey Pirmin! And all good thoughts but..... Most mfg are going away from PTFE now as it is very toxic to mfg, and they have achieved better results with other modifiers. Ie msw new blend is near 3 times as good as the previous all conquering blend, and the new blend removed PTFE. I also need to re wax at about that mark with either msw or hot melt - they do still offer wear protection but simply that many tens of millions of articulations under load by then for a solid lubricant - the coating will be thin, the chain will feel and sound dry. Some trickery may improve a little, but it would be a lot of faffing for possible small extension. Far, far, far easier if finding needing to rewax too often is just either a) top up with silca ss drip to extend time between re waxing, you do not need to clean at all before re waxing with ss drip or ufo drip or b) two chains on rotation. High mileage riders / racers especially - it is great - one chain for mon to fri, one for weekend, re wax both at once on rest day. Yeehaa. Generally speaking sooner or later one will need a new chain, so pre buying one costs no more, and guarantees 2 chains through cassette and super long time before one has to worry about buying new drivetrain parts.

[@ghostroc]

Question - How do you clean the rest of the drivetrain? It's a bit harder to do it "off the bike." 😜 I've just purchased a bottle of UFO Clean and I'm thinking that the only practical way is to spray it onto the drivetrain (with the chain off, of course!) and go hard with a stiff brush. Is that what you'd recommend?

[@davidrowe8747]

You could remove the cassette completely, using a chain whip and cassette remover, and give it a bath and scrub, similar to the recommendations for a chain. Cleaning the front chainring/s would be fairly easy to do on bike.

[@sndr2977]

Doesn't the chain rust when hanged after the boiling water bath? Or you just let them dry quickly and wax within couple of hours? Also, would you apply Tru Tension on top of a hot waxed chain, if there is no possibility to rewax in the field?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi Sndr, if you let hang for a day outside the rollers would probably start to oxidise, but left to hang for some hours - especially inside - no issues. Personally though the recommendation is to dry chain for a couple of mins with a heat gun or hair dryer. This heats the chain up a lot and so water evaporates from deep inside chain. Cold air (ie from air compressor) do a great job drying outside chain, but can miss getting inside. Officially - using both is best as the air compressor helps blast out any remaining stuff inside whilst its still wet, then heat dry -but...... i wouldnt stress - we are getting to the fringes now where one wouldn't track a tangible benefit. The main thing is that we want to prevent a bunch of contamination being brought into wax pot, and its very quick and easy to do a boiling water flush rinse and dry. One day i will try to capture what this looks like post a muddy mtb ride / race or cx race even if the video is poor quality and tack onto end of this one, you can see just how much dirt is flushed out just with boiling water - and chain feels silky smooth in no time again post even full mudder events - then dry and into pot without bringing a lot of contamination in. The job to reset 99% of drip lube chains post such riding is vastly more involved and expensive.

[@raymonds2687]

Is it a bad idea to take a chain with a few hundred kms, clean off wet lube, (bike milk) and apply hot wax melt?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Heavens no, why would that be a bad idea! It is easier to prep a chain for waxing / top lubricant option from new as you will just need 3 x 250ml baths of turps and 2 x 250ml baths of methylated spirits. Once ridden with factory grease, you will just need a bunch more turps baths as the first 5 or more will come out black. This just means one should weigh up cost to properly clean chain, chains remaining lifespan, chain cost. Ie if someone has ridden 1000km on an ultegra chain and its already half worn, is it worth putting 4 litres of turps through it. If one has ridden 1000km on an axs sram red chain that is $150 - then sure, it is worth it as a very long lasting so wear by that time will be minimal, and very expensive chain. For a few hundred km's ridden only, then it is definitely worth cleaning chain ready for immersive waxing - just follow the chain prep guide on zfc website instructions tab zerofrictioncycling.com.au/

[@dh6167]

So with the UFO clean, do you just place the whole chain in the bottle for 30 cleans, then get a new UFO clean bottle? Or do you use say 100ml each chain then dispose after using?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Testing of how many chains to how many ml test is about to commence for UFO clean and silca stripper - but according to their own claims i think it is about 5 chains per 150ml from memory. In theory either approach is fine - i personally though would be tempted to use smaller amount for multiple chains to keep the main amount perfectly uncontaminated, vs the entire amount X contaminated - but obviously the entire amount should take a lot longer to reach a point where it is no longer able to effectively dissolve the FG. However until claims fully tested, it just strikes me personally as a nicer way to go to use a smaller amount kept separate. If you read the chain prep guide - full - on the zfc website, instructions tab - you can see the full Q&A with the creator of UFO clean, and how many chains even a small amount can clean.

[@chrisgraupe7458]

Nice clean and lubed chain, but how address the derailleur and cassette?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey chris! that can depend a bit on what lube using previously, general maintenance etc. ie in the customer workshop days if i was sorting a bike out to get ready for their new waxed chain, cleaning the existing drivetrain might be a 10 minute job or a 1 hour job. some lubricants wipe right off, some you almost need a chisel - others a bit of solvent and stiff brush etc etc. So everyones will vary a lot. the key thing though is you simply want it clean - any which way you like that works for you depending on if you have an easy or tougher job ahead of you. You dont have to worry about wax bonding like you do with chain where the prep is very important - you simply need to clean it. once on waxing, your cleaning life then is mostly over.

[@gabrielwalsh8456]

Hi just wondering if you could recommend the best lube and maintenance regime for me. I'm using just for commuting in London UK, roughly 50 miles a week. 90% road 10% pavement(sidewalk). My priorities are low cost to run and low maintenance. I am currently using muc off wet lube once every month or so and degreasing with muc off chain cleaner. Thanks :)

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi Gabriel, the good news is you can easily beat a muc-off wet lubricant. I dont yet know what is going on with M-O & lubricants, but from a wear rate perspective i havent seen one do anything other than pretty terribly to date. It is an ongoing investigation! If you only ride in the dry, you have a choice of many great lubricants that will deliver you outstanding low wear, and you will be able to ditch your monthly degrease (msw / hot melt / silca ss drip / ufo drip / tru-tension tungsten all weather / silca synergetic / rex black diamond / revolubes / smoove). If you ride in the wet, it is important to remember you will pay the piper one of two ways - reset contamination after so a bit of time, or wipe chain and add more lube and pay in friction and wear. So for those who frequently ride in the wet, the best lubricant is the one you can most easily reset contamination post wet ride. This has immersive waxing as easily number one, next will be ufo drip and ss drip / tt aw as are easily cleaned fairly well basically boiling water swishes - everything else needs a good round of solvent flush cleaning. However, rides in wet need to be fairly short for ufo / ss as not the longest lasting treatment in wet conditions - but sounds like your rides will be within that. They may look expensive per bottle, but are right at the top of cost to run tables due to exceptionally low wear (and are very clean).

[@gabrielwalsh8456]

Thanks very much for your reply. I think I'll go with MSW for now. I might even get a belt drive bike to use in the rain.

[@mgreenberg250]

I have 100mi (160km) on a chain that I have been using with Squirt. Decided not a huge fan of the black gunk and moving to immersive waxing. To prep for wax, can I just put in a boiling water bath, then UFO clean, dry and wax? Chain has only been on dry road rides

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi there! yes if you have UFO DT clean then almost correct - process would be boiling water rinse to try to remove some of the bulk (albeit squirt doesnt dissolve off as well as refined wax drips - it is a more oily wax). Dry. UFO DT clean - 10mins soak, shake, remove. Boiling water baths again to flush and activate DT clean - dry, wax. It wont matter too much at all if this doesnt perfectly reset, squirt is ok to mix with IM waxing. You can also just ride the squirt treatment for approx 300kms so its pretty worn down - wipe excess from outside, and wax - there will only be about a gram of squirt left in chain, and you can re wax over that all fine. It is more multiple applications off squirt where waxing straight over is not as optimal.

[@mgreenberg250]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 appreciate your very thorough response, thanks!

[@mgreenberg250]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you! I also noticed I have some of the black gunk form Squirt in the form of a film on my chainring, cassette, and most noticeably the jockey wheels. How do you suggesting cleaning these while on the bike?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@mgreenberg250 ah anything that removes it ok is fine - might just be a bit of work with a cloth and or brush, or maybe some alcohol / whatever solvent you have - it shouldnt need much of anything if only a little squirt time. You dont need to worry re wax bonding like we do for inside of chain, so just anyway that cleans up is all groovy.

[@jazpaz5688]

Thanks Adam - I hope a video version of the Zen Master Guide is next (or soon!). It is a bit painful watching the many out-of-focus parts of the video tho!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

yes i agree not sure re some that zooming, will hopefully not happen next film day!

[@paulb9769]

I stupidly bought a gey KMC with no zinc coating and between rain washing and boiling water and rinsing it the thing rusted withing a week. I cleaned a new chain with just white spirits do you think that it is paraffin based it is ok to use on its own?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey Paul! you shouldnt need any chain coatings to stop rusting as long as dry chain post rinse and then re wax / re lube - all should be groovy. re cleaning chain finishing with alcohol rinse is best practice as ensures no film from cleaning so wax can bond to clean clear chain metal

[@AdrianWells]

Would you recommend hot water to clean dirty wax off a cassette or would something like turps or ufo clean be better for that?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

i almost never clean wax off cassette as it is mostly wear protective unlike wet lubricant which becomes abrasive. On race bike if i want looking mint before a race - then i usually just brushed off with a small brass brush - takes me about 45 secs. Otherwise boiling water works better and cheaper than turps / ufo clean.

[@olitonottero7620]

16:44 After the hot water swish-cleaning: If you pour the hot water / wax down the drains , will this not solidify and block the drains eventually?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Good question, i guess it is theoretically possible. But one is going to be melting a couple of grams max off a good few hundred mls of water. If one is riding in the wet though and doing every ride and have drains already prone to clogging?? I havent heard of it happening, but in worst cases i couldnt rule it out. I should mention i actually pour mine into a bucket to be emptied outside. I will clarify that when have an appropriate spot to do so.

[@Flip01]

MSW wax is the way to go.👍

[@joecobbo8325]

Hi, just wondering what is the best and cheapest way to recycle the chemicals, thanks.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Great question Joe, i hope for all to be thinking along these lines. At zfc i recycle via alcohol distillers but this would not be viable at all for those at home doing the occasional clean (i will prep circa 3000 chains this year). For those at home - the contaminated turps should be poured into a spare bottle / container. Not very contaminated (ie turps used for final rounds) can be kept in separate bottle to do the initial rounds next clean to save $$ and waste. Same with methylated spirits - dispose bath one finishing round, 2nd bath can be kept for bath one next round. The solvents that need to be disposed - keep in those bottles in a safe place, then do an annual run to your states / councils hazardous liquid waste disposal. In South australia it is held every month - i used to just do an annual run before discovered waxing pre zfc. Now with zfc i recycle via distillers, but normal cyclists needing to use solvents should in most developed countries be able to quickly find their localities services for disposing of household liquid waste not suitable to go into hard rubbish or be poured down the drain or in ones yard. Dont mix chemicals, keep whatever is used separate and labelled what it is so the hazardous liquid waste facility knows what it is and what to do with it.

[@joecobbo8325]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks heaps Adam, I was really poor with my chain maintenance but after finding this channel I really wanted to look after my chain as much as possible, and to do it in a cost effective and environmentally friendly way is great!

[@WowRixter]

How about bathing the chain in Citrus Degreaser or kerosine? Besides Silca, is there a second place option?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Citrus degreasers may cause hydrogen embrittlement / corrosion stress if left to soak. Kerosine is simply not that powerful vs mineral turps, and leaves a lot more film behind, some have had poor experience using kero. Apologies what is the question on second place option?

[@WowRixter]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 I just bought some mineral turps and keen to give it a try. Hopefully it evaporates nicely

[@WowRixter]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 I cannot buy denatured alcohol in Canada, but I did find some bio-ethanol which states it's "100% alcohol blend of ethanol". If I use that as my final clean, should evaporate 100% and not leave any residue?

[@garynoble668]

Adam can you use rubbing alcohol as a wine?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Yes - brilliant. im a lightweight drinker so you would not believe how long a bottle lasts me. One nip and im done for the night. Very economical.

[@pliccut]

All these episodes on the subject of keeping your chain clean… I think it’s way over the top. Clean it the best you can, lube it and get on your bike and ride already. Most of us are riding medium-priced bikes and we’re not professionals readying for the Tour de France.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

alas i respecfully disagree there. There is often easily hundreds of $$ or more to be saved per year by the majority of cyclists running medium level groupsets - the cost of cassettes and chain rings etc even mid tier is very high these days. And...... your chain works SO HARD, and it is completely exposed to the environment, and - simply being on top of a proven top lubricant choice and simple quick and basic maintenance - not a single bit of that prevents one from just getting on their bike already. Those who just run random / meh / poor lubricants - slap more on and wipe chain - they absolutely pay for that literal few mins per week time saving in measurably great friction and wear rates. But being on top of basics like a good lubricant choice and basic maintenance isnt for everyone, and thats obviously also fine. I dont know why one would take exception to those that wish to. It is like criticizing someone for grabbing a healthy snack instead of another donut. The information is simply there for those who wish to know it, and enjoy it. And i have a mountain of tangible objective data from nearly half a million kms of exhaustive testing to prove the difference it makes (if the basic logic of having lubricant become easily abrasive due to being completely exposed, and on a part working so incredibly hard) re wear and costs. It is not minor. The information is much more for the masses than pro's for the TDF. The pro's for the TDF care about saving an easy 3w of friction in the chain. The masses would prefer not to have circa 3w of energy every pedal stroke going directly into faster drivetrain wear.

[@pliccut]

@@zerofrictioncycling992I also believe in taking good care of my bike. I clean my chain with dish soap and water frequently. I’ve had good success with Squirt chain lubricant. I also remove my cassette and clean each cog about every other cleaning to remove any buildup there. I “drop” the chain off the front chainring to clean it too. I respect your knowledge on this subject. I am only “rolling my eyes” because I think you could make your point in one video.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@pliccut Yep if i had any skills in presenting and time to script - i would hope i could do better with practice. Squirt is fine. It is at least a solid choice vs many other big name lubes that are pretty bad. And your maintenance sounds fine - if not hard work and time consuming for higher wear to me vs other options which do not require any cleaning maintenance (or extremely little, very infrequently), are day in day out much cleaner, and lower wear (and so lower running cost). ie i have never had to remove a cassette for cleaning in over a decade, and i can guaranteed mine would still look much cleaner. I also dont need to use any cleaning product (and dish soap is a bit notorious re it can be not awesome for bearings and other bits over time). But if one is happy with their path and the outcome, stay happy. I dont know why more information for great outcomes to others would be triggering to you such that you feel the need to come on and say it is all over the top. I can say for a fact other options are cleaner and lower friction and less time than what is currently floating your boat. I can say for a fact they are lower to notably lower wear, which even on mid tier groupsets adds up to a nice amount of $$ back in ones pocket to buy other fun cycling stuff instead. To me that is just a weird thing to have a go at, and say hey you know why my method of this lube and removing cassettes and dawn soap is better (to me thats over the top).

[@kennith.]

Steam cleaner?

[@bboiteau]

10:09

[@3ATGL]

Too many topics in one video I think. It is better to break them up. Maybe 4 to 5 separate videos.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

thanks 3ATGL for input - i will be playing around with vid lengths a bit depending on topics, as vids will be coming out probably every 2 to 3 weeks, some i dont want to leave kinda hanging mid point - ie the stark difference between wet lube cleaning and wax chain / chain coating cleaning - so tried to power through and cover - part of the length trouble is no doubt my rambling ;) But depending on topic expect to see some variance in length, try and hang in there on the longer ones will try to make sure the bulk of the content is well worth the time to watch. Also first round filmed all on one day so first probs 5 ish vids all from you tube attempt 1, i will get better hopefully with practice and time, and will start to delve into some deeper groovy topics.

[@Fatbutnotflat]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 i suggest a script. Great knowledge!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@Fatbutnotflat i do write myself a script, i just never stick too it!!! ha, it is hard to read a script and look at camera without a teleprompter :) Wait till you see the waxing FAQ video. Fook me. The number of frequently asked questions i receive now from around the world has become pretty epic, hence covering the FAQ's on video is now of a length that it is quite something. I expect it to make news headlines of anti waxer's re "look how complicated and hard it is if the FAQ is 1.5hours long!!" - but...... despite how super easy waxing is....... it sure does generate A LOT of frequently asked questions. Stay tuned for that one to land hahahahaha

[@davidrowe8747]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Maybe an easier (?) interim method would be to either include in the description a breakdown of the sections, with time points, and/or I see some KZbinrs also have markers within the video "scroll bar", that mark where each content section starts and ends. I don't know how complicated the latter would be, but I find either of these very helpful when watching - or re-watching - a video and I want to go to a specific section.

[@olitonottero7620]

@@davidrowe8747 yes those scroll bar / time markers with content description are fantastic,

[@dieserbenutzernameistvielzulan]

puuh. just too much bla bla for me.