Episode 9 Demonstrating Bicycle Chain Contamination

[@86309]

Awesome setup, great protocols. a testament to your repeatability, and consistency efforts !

[@jorgelucascouto]

22:29 contamination in dry lubes 24:02 contamination in wet lubricants 35:28 water contamination

[@manuelluis5456]

How important is this subject ?

[@malayneum]

pls keep these long videos. i always listen them while im jogging or mountainbiking in the woods. its a therapy.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

AH you are just like me! (ah except, of course i dont listen to me on my rides hahahahaha - i listen to lots of other cool peeps)

[@manuelluis5456]

Am I on méth , Sir ? 5:06

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@manuelluis5456 sorry lost me there - whats the query re 5:06?

[@evrimkaya8420]

loved the floating test bench design! makes so much sense.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Thanks Evrim! yes its a nice simple solution and those couplings are made for such situations - bb bearings in oldest test machine are nearing 200,000km old so it definitely is not transferring miss alignment loads, everything just floats on those legs & coupling very nicely

[@robertmcfadyen9156]

I make Steve from ozcycle's formulation . It works brilliantly and the Australian Institute Of Sport have had success with it . I have a group of fellow enthusiast riders also using it . They said that chains now need less attention than when wet lubricants were in use . I use Connex Wippermann chains only as does our riding group .

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Overall i am sure there are zero performance issues as such with Oz cycle one should do well to take note of; > Where did 50 grams of PTFE come from? Original UFO wax used 5 grams. most are moving away from ptfe due to enviromental concerns, and 50 grams is frankly bonkers. > His test of his blend vs mspeedwax is in my opinion deeply flawed to the point of deliberatel flawed - i have document covering the concerns - instructions tab - That oz cycle video. He was very lucky not to be sued by mspeedwax, if i was them, i would have. > He is in my opinion a horrific human being. He did 18 months jail for the horrific week long torture and murder of his neighbours dog - i believe that is the longest animal cruelty sentence in the states history. What line does one draw on a person where they no longer support? Ie where is your line for him to cross that you would simply watch other cycling content - it is not like there are not 100 other channels doing stuff on DIY wax. Does he need to start abusing and murdering children? Or do most people with any morals whatsoever draw a line at the horiffic torture of pets? I know where i draw my line. > The fact he is also friends with the likes of absolute human garbage durian rider who just makes up malicious lies on people / companies etc to get more clicks - tells you more about his level. If you are a supporter of Oz - pls just go to his vids, and unsubscribe / leave ZFC. Supporters of horrific people are not welcome here. Not saying thats you - maybe you just had his blend from before the torture or before aware. but now that you know, you can draw your own line, and if still following him, pls dont follow me.

[@stephenkohler3472]

Thanks for this. That helps me understand the results way better.

[@Coolcmsc]

Fantastic! And please put links in the description where relevant, for example for that excellent podcast!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

ah yes oops, i will try to find a spot soon and go through vids and do that!

[@Coolcmsc]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Well, if you have time along with everything else, that would be really excellent. Your videos are an important addition to ‘the message’. The website is superb and best suited to those like me who have time to read it all and find the little justifications - like the explanation for cycling chains. The videos serve a different and equally important audience. So, thank you!

[@rider65]

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤮🤮🤮

[@Coolcmsc]

@@rider65 Thanks for taking the time 😊

[@ridefast0]

Very interesting. You drop the contamination onto the top of the tension run of the chain, where it is partially knocked out by the chainwheel teeth then it can fall off the bottom. But IRL the contamination also falls on the top side of the lower chain run, where it is pushed into the chain by the lower jockey wheel teeth and the cassette teeth. Have you considered and discounted this difference as unimportant? Might be interesting to see if there is a different effect on the noise increase, at least!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi there! good considerations, but yes overall i did discount as not important. the important part really was application of same contamination, same amount, same method, same intervals. Initial testing to bed in the protocol was already very time consuming as tests across multiple lubricants had to be done repeatedly to check if variance from one test to another was acceptable. And so really when it was clear that the application method as shown was able to clearly assess if contamination was absorbed, penetration and causing higher wear, or not - then that was all ok. I do not think the position of the application (top or bottom span) would make a difference as it is not an immediate path from contamination hitting outside of chain and then being deep inside abrading on the pin and inner link bore causing accelerated elongation wear. What sticks to the outside of the chain needs to be basically pumped in there over multiple rounds of articulation and reticulation - so it is really down to a) is the contamination absorbed on the outside first and b) does it have a pathway to be pumped from outside to inside. Wet lubricants typically do both of those things, wax - being solid or semi solid - has much lower amount sticking, and then a much more difficult path to get from outside to inside chain -both of which is same in real world cycling as the testing. Hope that helps!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

K re upload after first one missed demonstrating dry contamination on wet lube chain. There were a couple of comments on original upload re concerns safety wise of pedal spindle - great to see / hear people worry about such things! Pedal spindle is used to crank trainer up before turning on motor, cold start places much more strain on couplings as wants to got immediately from 0 to 100 cadence. One day will upgrade garmins to set grade to -5% and have trainers humming along before starting (i have this on the dedicated race chain machine) - but - in 5 years and well over 300,000km of testing to date (well over 10,000 hours of test machine running time), i havent yet come close to getting whacked with the spindle. Its pretty easy to miss, and one naturally takes care around spinning motorised equipment. It would take a pretty special effort to get whacked, it is a lot easier to ensure well clear than what it probably looks on video.

[@WesMacaulay]

Ah, brilliant - the setup video. One thing not mentioned - is it always the same chain that gets used? Might be good for consistent data?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

yes every test chain is a new ultegra 11spd. However the chain itself will always be the largest variance in the testing, hence we are looking for larger differences in the results, close results - basically class that as same same as positions could reverse if both re tested.

[@alastairstedman7840]

That wet lube sound after contamination 😭

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

YES!!! and that is why i get VERY annoyed at companies that market wet lubricants for use offroad!!! (muc off / wolf tooth and many many more). wet lubricant and offroad is just a complete mismatch of product type to purpose - one is just making their own grinding paste - hopefully once people think on ZFC info a bit, this will be obvious to them too.

[@Cheruzan]

If you make a 5 minute video about this you'll be a KZbin superstar

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Ha i will never be a you tube superstar but i will be aiming to improve always. I do need to do better re concise that is for sure. Keep reminding me. I will get there :)

[@rider65]

Yeah I mean okay 5 minutes is probably way too short but 37 minutes is way way too long this topic can be covered in 15 minutes. I could tell you I lost interest after the first three minutes and realizing that I had another 34 to go. You have a lot of good information but you've got to streamline it bud 👍 You can edit them down a little bit more you can do some practice videos you could even write a script just to have a basis but try to be a bit more succinct I think you have valuable content but I'm sure there's a lot of people who are only watching an average of 30 seconds to a minute check out your KZbin Analytics and see what the average wash time is that'll be a good gauge

[@mga77]

I love your channel an effort - worth do have a bigger audience to safe life of cassettes, chains end environment :-) To gain more viewers, maybe put some vids with subject: "Test xxx lube failed surviving torture machine" or "Lets talk about waxing and penetration issues" :-) Not everybody spends the time for reading all of your PDFs. Maybe, you can briefly summarize your tests in a 5min. vid for each lube separately. Like NFS, Squirt and so on... Whatever is necessary to reach more people.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Thanks Matthes and yes all good idea's. I dont want to be click baitey so will be careful with titles a bit, and i do have loose plans to try to do some very short to the point vids if i get a chance (next film day i have some in depth topics to cover - testing & bearings) - but will see what i get time to tackle! much to do much to do....;)

[@tbone-ip5fi]

Lovin these videos. You're doing the world a service! Perhaps, thanks to you and a few others, the old oily, wet lubes that used to be omnipresent, will be a thing of the past. There's no just no point in continuing the use of these, but there's a knowledge gap that needs to be bridged.

[@goixiz]

How often do you replace the cogs and chainrings ? and does it alter the test results ?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi Ming - every test. Yes that is expensive. Yes it has been very difficult ensure i have enough parts to keep 3 test machines running all time. but yes it is certainly possible that running worn bits for new chain could affect wear results as mesh would be not great, and this MAY have an impact albeit likely to be small, but also as the test contains a lot of harsh contamination, chains are being run to wear rate limit, and the chain rings are cheap / cassettes cheap - it would be 50/50 at best they would accept a new chain without jumping under load, or encounter and issue at some point during the next test. For some of the top lubricants tested however (msw, hot melt, silca ss, ufo, effetto) - wear to rings / cassette at end of main test has been extremely low, if just doing that - i could have easily re used for another test. But then the suite of single application longevity tests that follow, especially the extreme contamination S.A.L - as the treatment lifespan is being pushed past its limit and everything still being hit with water and abrasive contamination, a lot of wear to everything occurs in the last part of that test = new bits & full reset for next test.

[@goixiz]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you for all the hard work and time dedicated (cost as well).

[@K3MCL]

Keep these coming. they’re brilliant. Another question I have (which I’m sure you’ll have covered somewhere on website) is what is optimum for a race chain post waxing? As in should it be kept and raced as first use or run for a while to get rid of excess wax before the race? Hope that makes sense. I’m asking as I’ve tried both but first use gives me a lot of wax dust and I’m assuming there’s a level of inefficiency in that which isn’t ideal for optimum race conditions

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Thanks kenny! I also need to try to check back on video's comments more often :) Re race chains on mswpeedwax / hot melt - depending on a couple of factors (power / temperature) they will typically hit their fastest zone after 20 to 40 mins of cycling to fully break in the wax (press out excess, polish remaining bonded wax to a super slippery finish). So if you do a 20 to 30 min warm up pre race, then normally its fine to run put race chain on day before race day, and let warm up take care of it. Personally if it is an important race, i have a specific ergo i do the day before that is a really good little leg freshening tune up to ensure great feeling legs on race day (30 min long session), and between that plus race day warm up, race chain is absolutely kicking off pedal stroke one of the race in its optimal low friction zone and in normal road conditions it is going to stay in that zone for at a couple of hundred kms.

[@manuelluis5456]

Mr. Talks too fast shan't come back to my screen no more please !

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

???

[@dawn_rider]

@manuelluis5456 Probably the solution is to change the caption language settings to your language then switch captions on. 1) At the bottom of the video area select the "Gear" symbol. ( Select = left mouse click ). 2) Select "Subtitles / CC" . 3) Select "Auto Translate". 4) Scroll down the list of languages and select the one you want. 5) Select the captions symbol. A red line will appear underneath the captions 'page' symbol when captions are on. Wait a few seconds and read away in your language.

[@rider65]

Way, way too long of video mate. 👍

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

I may not be the channel for you :). I know i can ramble a bit, but... its funny most of the you tube channels i watch are also way longer than mine - i like detail so the tear downs like on munro live, or analysis by PERUN, scam investigations by Coffeezilla and on and on - most are 30 mins to an hour easy, and they are awesome :)