Episode 9 - With Phil Illy

We had none other than Phil Illy on to discuss autoheterosexuality in females (AKA AAP). Phil is the author of Autoheterosexuality: Attraction to Being the Other Sex.
You can purchase Phil's book here:
www.amazon.com/Autoheterosexual-Attracted-Being-Other-Sex/dp/1544541449/
Follow Phil here:
x.com/autogynephil
And here
www.autoheterosexual.com
We also discuss Audrey Hale near the end. Phil transcribed her relevant diary entries which can be found here:
www.autoheterosexual.com/p/audrey-hales-imaginary-penis

[@tennisboy1314]

Great discussion. Phil’s argument about ETIIs makes a lot of sense.

[@_Laura_Reynolds]

One small correction, EK Sedgwick was openly heterosexual. She was married to a man. She was not only criticized by some gays and lesbians for identifying as a gay man, but also for not being a lesbian.

[@phililly]

Thanks for the background info, I should probably learn more about her life history before talking about her. I think she was AAP though. Here are some of the passages I highlighted from her book Tendencies: “In among the many ways I do identify as a woman, the identification as a gay person is a firmly male one, identification "as" a gay man; and in among its tortuous and alienating paths are knit the relations, for me, of telling and of knowing.” (Sedgwick, 1993, p. 221) “The first time I met Michael Lynch, I thought his whiteframed glasses were the coolest thing I had ever seen. I twas at the MLA convention, in New York, in 1986. My first thought was, "Within two months, every gay man in New York is going to be wearing white glasses." My second thought: "Within a year, every fashion-conscious person in the United States is going to be wearing white glasses." My instant resolve: "I want white glasses first."” (Sedgwick, 1993, p. 264) “Michael's availability to be identified with and loved, in my instant, fetishistic crystallization of him through those white glasses, must have had everything to do with my witness of this moment.” (Sedgwick, 1993, p. 265) “The stubborn magical defiance I have learned (I sometimes feel I have succeeded in learning) in forging a habitable identity as a fat woman is also what has enabled the series of uncanny effects around these white glasses; uncanny effects that have been so formative of my-shall I call it my identification? Dare I, after this half-decade, call it with all a fat woman's defiance, my identity?-as a gay man.” (Sedgwick, 1993, p. 268)

[@_Laura_Reynolds]

@@phililly I agree that she was AAP. I am just pointing out that she is a counter-example to Aaron's claim about autoandrophilic women in previous generations almost invariably becoming butch lesbians. She wanted to be accepted as a queer intellectual. If she could have somehow made herself be attracted to women, she would have had an incentive to do so, but she didn't, so presumably she couldn't. I am not a Sedgwick fan, but I respect the fact that she didn't pretend to be into women when she wasn't in order to gain social acceptance. Not all women are naturally bisexual/sexually fluid. I think that's an important point.

[@DakotaDawn-gx1qk]

@@_Laura_Reynolds 100% agreed. i've never bought into the all women being fluid thing even if more women are bisexual than men.

[@miroirs-jumeaux]

1:25:54 *Heterodorx*