Erie Lackawanna's Cleveland Commuter Train Early 1970s

[@joelbaechle6892]

Great video - thanks for putting it up. I lived in Garrettsville while attending Hiram College, and in February of 1973 shot two reels of B&W film from the cab of the E-8, Cleveland to Youngstown. Also some stills, and various still photos around the Terminal Tower approaches and, and also the interlocking tower at Leavittsburg. I hope I can get them online eventually.

[@DavidJones-dy2ul]

Hope you can get 🎥 the video🎞️ up too! May God Bless your efforts!

[@JayMelrose-sg1uj]

I lived in Poland. Ohio and graduated high school in 1973. About that time, I learned of the Erie-Lackawanna commuter train to Cleveland and used it often on pleasure trips with classmates. I always felt cheated that Amtrak came in 1971 and took away our trains just before I was old enough to experience them! The commuter train on the Erie was a thrilling discovery! I am so glad that I had the opportunity to experience it, and I remember it vividly!

[@Beangoeszoom]

This is great! I'm only 13 and live by Solon. I walk on the tracks a lot trying to imagine what it was like. This is perfect! Thanks for posting this! -Ben

[@jsizemore44]

@gmpullman - I worked this train as a conductor and trainman. My name is John Sizemore. The last time I worked this train was the day before it's last run. I was also a frieght conductor on the Mahoning first sub-division of the EL. Home terminal was Youngstown and sometimes Cleveland. Thanks for posting this, it was great to see an old Conductor "Jerry Miglets" in the video standing at the Aurora Stop.

[@johnlasky6115]

I went to high school in Cleveland in the early 70's and got to see the EL commuter often. It had a loyal customer base. Once I took it to Youngstown to visit some relatives who lived in that area. Someone asked about the catenary towers near Cleveland Union Terminal, these were part of the original CUT line from Collinwood to Linndale which used electric power so steam engines didn't operate underground in the downtown station. In about 1954 with no more steam power the electric lines were removed and the power units were transferred to New York and used between Grand Central Terminal and Harmon. Thanks for posting this video, also enjoyed seeing the old yellow Shaker Rapid Transit cars.

[@gmpullman]

I'm glad it brought back memories for you! I was very fortunate to have been able to ride this train and also photograph it. Thanks for your comments...

[@gmpullman]

@jsizemore44 Thank you for your comments, John. People like you make it all worthwhile! I first rode #28 in 1966 on a Cleve. Press special to NYC. #28 carried three extra coaches and a Pullman. Cars were tied on to #6 at Youngstown. Coming back from Hoboken passengers got off in Akron and bused to Cle. since 28-29 did not run weekends. Great memories! I love that shot of Jerry in the evening sun and the scene in Aurora with mom, dad and the kiddies is timeless! Thanks again.

[@003.55]

gmpullman I

[@DavidJones-dy2ul]

Too bad the EL didn't run the sleeper through to Cleveland Regularly.

[@jakespeed63]

Neat old footage. Wish my pops was alive to see some of this.

[@gmpullman]

Thank you. Yes, I have hundreds of questions I wish I would have asked while my father was alive. Missed opportunity.

[@richkostura5626]

Great video I grew up along Harvard between 93rd and 116th and watched the commuter trains every morning on my way to school during the late 1950's and early 1960's.

[@cehayes74]

After Conrail ended commuter services in Cleveland, some of the equipment winded up here in Chicago on Conrail’s “Valparaiso Commuter Service” until 1980 when they handed over to Amtrak !!!

[@DavidJones-dy2ul]

Yes, I too remember seeing that equipment leaving Chicago's Union Station (CUS) with various (including the EL) equipment. I was riding the vintage N&W passenger cars on the former commuter train inherited from the Wabash. The N&W train was slow and I recall we'd be passed by the Conrail "Valpo" Commuter somewhere between CUS and Cominsky (Sox) Park. It was fun to see the EL equipment as I was born on the same day as the EL, October 17th, 1960. Thanks for remembering the transfer of the EL equipment! David 😷 in Chicago 🇺🇸

[@cehayes74]

@@DavidJones-dy2ul-Man that was a wonderful & beautiful sight to see, you got to see something that many can only dream about !!!

[@jimnkayanderson]

Wow. Thanks for the memories. My grandfather worked for the Erie (and later Erie-Lackawanna) in Corry, PA. As a kid in the sixties he would ride the train from Corry to Youngstown to Cleveland to pick my sister and I up for school vacations. I remember well the trip from Cleveland to Youngstown. Wish someone had some video of the passenger trains that ran from Youngstown to Jamestown, NY through Corry. Trains 3 & 5 were the ones I remember.

[@erielac]

5 & 6

[@leonardhughes7679]

when I used to take that line I'd stand on the platform holding onto the rail so I wouldn't fall off the train.fun times during the mid seventies to 1980 when I graduated from catholic grade school off of fleet and Broadway avenue.

[@meliketrolleys]

Thanks for sharing this - rare shots!! I was in Cleveland in 1965 (played in the orchestra) but I never knew this was there. I was busy riding the Shaker Heights in those days. Great stuff - sorry i missed it.

[@gmpullman]

Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for commenting. I have some film of CTS and Shaker. Hope to get time to post it soon!

[@gmpullman]

Thanks for commenting, Johnny I miss the variety of railroad action you could still see in the 60s & 70s. A trip to Marion was always fun for train watching! Today... not mutch excitement but the new N&W heritage paint schemes should spice things up!

[@TheNorthwestWind]

thanks for sharing dad

[@gmpullman]

You're welcome, son...

[@gmpullman]

I remember the Harvard & Lee crossing with those huge crossing gates. I'm glad this brought back good memories for you. I appreciate the comment and Thank You for watching!

[@retrochad]

Thanks for making this video...This train ran through the woods behind my parents house. I can remember walking along the railroad tracks back when I was a kid and occasionally finding a glass telegraph insulator on the ground. I was born just after the passenger train stopped but I still remember the sound of the freight trains.

[@KennyPeepers]

Cleveland's CT Tower had a General Railway Signal Co. Model 5 interlocking machine with over 400 levers that required four men to work it.

[@Starfield1959]

Great to see this. Wow, so much as changed where all this once ran. If you didn't know any better, you would swear there was never trains in this area of Cleveland. Thanks for the Ride !!

[@gmpullman]

Glad you enjoyed the film! I agree about the disappearing rights-of-way. In Mantua, there is a McDonald's smack-dab in the middle of where the track used to be. Thanks for commenting...

[@brimac70]

This is an awesome video, I lived around that EL line most of my childhood and never got to see those commuter trains. Thanks for another great video!

[@MsTexas73]

I grew up on the southeast side of the city of Cleveland in the 70s and 80s. I am very familiar with the rails that ran parallel to Miles' Rd and crossed East 93rd, East 116th, East 131st, and Lee Rd. I believe further west the tracks curved and headed north somewhere. Were those same tracks used as Commuter rails? I know I used to see freight trains on them, but I don't think I'd ever seen a commuter train. i do wish we still had them.

[@gmpullman]

Yes! Erie had a passenger station at Lee Road. I remember the crossing at Miles had super long crossing gates that stood up like redwood trees! The Wheeling & Lake Erie tracks paralleled the E-L here. Perhaps that is the freight only line you remember? Thanks for commenting!

[@jonnyspeed]

Fantastic video! I grew up in Warren, OH and when I was 3yrs old we moved to Union St. which was only 1 block from the Erie line that the 28 and 29 ran on. I don't remember seeing the commuter train, but just to know that it operated right behind my house is very cool. I am sure I heard the horn for the grade crossing at Austin Ave. and didn't realize what it was. I am working on a new HO EL Layout and this really helps me to see the kind of varried power that they would use. Thanks!

[@1940limited]

It appears that the former "Phoebe Snow" coaches were used for this run after long haul passenger trains were discontinued. I don't know what Erie ran on this train before the merger. That would be interesting. Interesting archival footage. I'm glad someone got out there and documented this relatively unknown operation. I believe 833 was a former Erie unit.

[@robertohlrich369]

Worked at Higbees on weekends during holidays and traveled from Solon.

[@KennyPeepers]

BTW, Cleveland RTA runs rapid transit (like the El) but not commuter trains (like Metra). There was discussion in 1976 of having the state seek federal grants that paid 100% of the subsidy of commuter rail services operated by Conrail IF someone else was willing to run the train. The Cleveland-Aurora (22 miles) part of the E-L commuter was considered for retention by RTA (which started in 1975) but neither ODOT or RTA were interested. Several attempts to revive this line failed to win support.

[@retrochad]

Thanks for this information...It seemed like by the time I was in high school (early 90's) I would no longer hear the sound of the train on this line which ran behind my parents' house but I did not know when it stopped.

[@wsmarshjr]

Great video. Thanks for posting. Really helped me sort out how the Erie joined the tracks into CUT. As for memories, in the 1960s we'd visit my grandmother on E78th street and I'd pester my Dad to take me over to Aetna Road, where the PRR, EL, and N&SS along with W&LE and NYC short line ran in close proximity. I'm guessing that area was just a tad too sketchy when you were filming in the mid-1970s. Too bad. I would have loved to see that E8 clattering through the PRR diamonds at Erie Crossing. Thanks again!

[@thegreenmole6463]

you know 833 is stillbeing uded on excursions

[@gmpullman]

+Green mole frenzy Yes, Thank you. In fact at 3:10 my caption mentions the "Famed 833"I appreciate your comments, Thanks

[@tomfinger4770]

Enjoyable. A nice little documentary on an operation I didn't know much about.

[@gmpullman]

Thanks, Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Beangoeszoom]

Ive been tracing this line as much as i can. Ive followed the tracks all the way from cleveland to garrettsville. I watched this video awhile ago, and now that ive been to all these places in the video its so cool and sad to compare. I hope one day they restore the line for some reason. If you have any more videos please post them!

[@gmpullman]

Hi, Ben I live near Chardon and I followed the old Cleveland and Eastern interurban line in a similar fashion. I can't get over how much has just vaporized- and not just railroads. Steel mills, factories of all sorts, all our industrial heritage. So sad. Thanks for commenting! I really need to get busy posting more. Soon, I hope.

[@jeffreymcfadden9403]

nafta, working as intended.

[@stephaniestephers4586]

Most of the tracks are gone now. It's a bike trail from Mantua to Garrettsville and in Braceville there's a park called Swift Park right by where the tracks used to be but the bridge over the Mahoning river is all gone there.

[@tommythomason6187]

I clicked on this thinking it'd just be boring electric commuter trains. Wow, pleasant surprise! Interesting urban scene, though kind of run down and bad, and prized Erie Lackawanna E8's. I think Wikipedia states EL had 23 E8's.

[@tc228888]

I grew up on the Eastside ......I remember a lot of this as I could not pass up an opportunity to ride the rapid from E55th to downtown and later to the Airport . But where did Erie Lacawanna's right of way go heading east ? NKP and NYC came through Euclid but I do not ever remember seeing any Erie Lackawanna. Also, on a technical note , saw an EMD ( GP) and an Alco (RS MU'd...Often wondered about that ..were they compatible ??..Thx for a great and nostalgic video

[@RelaxingPeacefulMusicChannel]

Very Interesting. I remember going to Geauga Lake and remember seeing that train. My dad used to take it often to go see the ball games at the old Municipal Stadium. Its too bad it went the way of the dodo. The tracks are still there in some spots. Well enough reminiscing. I have a railroad in my basement to work on! :)

[@gmpullman]

Thank You. Amazing just how much track, and the rest of the structures that supported all these railroad lines, has disappeared over just a relatively short time. Every time I visit one of my old *haunts* it seems like all I can think of is what *used* to be there.

[@KennyPeepers]

Conrail started in 1976 and assumed control of duplicate Erie-Lackawanna and Pennsylvania RR lines SE from Cleveland. Conrail abandoned much of the E-L Cle-Youngstown First Sub in 1982 because it favored the former Cle-Alliance PRR. The E-L had a 1.6% grade climb up from Cle, double that of the PRR. And the E-L served the Youngstown District which lost five of six steel mill complexes and 40,000 steel jobs 1977-82. E-L had its HQ in Cle, a big reason why the commuter train survived so long.

[@glennhavinoviski8128]

4:20 and 6:20 - check out the Shaker Rapid PCC cars (now the RTA Green Line). CTS Rapid at 7:18 (now the RTA Red Line).

[@gmpullman]

I used to like riding those old PCCs! Like a page out of history!

[@gmpullman]

Correct! Westbound CTS Rapid cars built by Pullman standard going into the Terminal Tower. Thanks for watching!

[@MIKECNW]

This maybe an obvious question but if the whole rail line vanished how come? I understand Clevand still has commuter service operated by a transit organization like the RTA here in Chicago but why not this line?

[@cvgeeps]

Signs of a better America look how many people were working that railroads were transporting on a daily basis I miss that America.

[@KennyPeepers]

Different era. Cities were dying. Railroads were dying. Transit was dying. And this sole remaining commuter train relied on a lot of infrastructure left from Union Terminal's heyday and depended heavily on Erie-Lackawnna employees who commuted to work In Terminal Tower on free passes. When Conrail, their jobs moved to Philly or were ended.

[@rotaryskratch18]

These tracks are right at the back of where I work, Tendon Manufacturing. We're right next door to a massive Heinen's warehouse, and the Amazon warehouse is directly north of us at Randall Mall. I believe this is the Cleveland-Mahoning Railway, which was built in the 1850s and ran until the 1970s. My theory is that decreased industry, the Ohio Turnpike, numerous other methods of commute available, and the fact it was a single track became its' downfall. There are alternative rail lines just to the north and south. To the west of us (Bedford Hts southeast of Warrensville Ctr and Miles Pkwy), the tracks bend North toward Cleveland, merging with the Cuyahoga Valley Line that comes up from the south alongside the Cuyahoga River, as well as other lines from the north. To the south-east of us is a massive Giant Eagle warehouse near Solon (right on the rail line), which then proceeds toward Reminderville, Aurora, Garrettsville, Warren/Youngstown, Pittsburgh, then through Pennsylvania toward Baltimore. The line is broken up in many places between Solon and Warren, but Google maps set to satellite view allows you to trace the line, even when it seems to disappear (hint: it follows along Rt. 43 to Rt. 82, then along 82 past Garrettsville. Just returned from a day long Sunday journey with a friend, she bought an antique lamp near Kent, then we headed to beautiful downtown Garrettsville for coffee and bagel sandwiches at The Cellar Door, then we followed the line back home towards Cleveland, stopping at various sites of interest and antiquing along the way. In Aurora, there is a Station 13 Historic District building right on a section of the old track. Demming Financial Services and Ol'chefskis BBQ are right there (south of rt 82 on New Hudson Rd.) Continuing down Trails End to Aurora Park, I got out and ventured through the mud and weeds to the track; remnants of utility poles with wires still run alongside, mostly intact! I continued on to an area where they had completely cleared away the overgrowth and even cut down massive trees all along the track as far as I could see! They're probably just ripping up the rails and ties to create recreation paths, but... ...a part of me is hoping there will be a rebuilding of the line to re-connect for the Amazon warehouse and other commercial and industrial businesses! I know it's probably just wishful thinking, but... a guy can dream, right? edit: what d-bags disliked this video? thanks for uploading.

[@robertohlrich369]

Worked at Higbees during holidays in early 60’s. Commuted from Solon.

[@gmpullman]

My mother would drag me along on her shopping errands downtown. I got a ride on the CTS Rapid from Windemere to Terminal Tower out of the deal! For an extra treat I would get a Higbee's Frosted Malted from the little fountain under the escalators in the Budget Basement (the only place in Higbee's we could afford to shop!) Thanks for the memories...

[@DavidJones-dy2ul]

Thanks so much for posting! The Erie Lackawanna and Myself were born on the same day, 17OCT1960, so the EL has a special place in my ❤️ heart! I was wondering what happened to trains #628 and #629 (numbers from my July 1965 Official Guide of the Railways) after the discontinuance of the lake cities in January 1970. Thanks for saving me a lot of research! Fortunately, I'm still around and I'm glad to hear that EL passenger service lasted until at least 1977 on this route.❤️Love the boiler equipped GP-9 substituting for the E8. Also enjoyed the GP-35 / RS-2 combination. Was the GP-35 there for "Pulling Power" (since these units were not equipped with Steam Boilers/Generators) and the RS-2 for Steam Heat (don't know if this RS-2 had a Steam Boiler/Generator or not)? I'm looking forward to modeling the final Westbound Lakes Cities as well as "your" commuter train! Thanks again for posting! David 😷 in Chicago 🇺🇸

[@garysprandel1817]

The GP35/RS2 combo may have been similar to early Chicago RTA where you saw then new RTA F40ph's pulling 20s era Rock Island Caponeliners due to summer temperatures and long daylight hours rendered the need for heat and lighting moot.

[@drum3433]

WOW! Great stuff! Thanks for posting!

[@gmpullman]

I can't deny that! More people working, and getting better pay and benefits, too. These times they are a changin'... Thanks for commenting!

[@gmpullman]

@drum3433 Thank You! So much has changed since then...

[@rodneykantorski736]

Interesting to me at the 4:25 mark, how the dwarf signal goes from a Slow Clear to Stop, and then immediately upgrades to a Restricting. I never recall seeing an arrangement where a home signal does that, when the train is still occupying the interlocking, directly in advance if the signal. 🤔

[@Approach_Medium]

Looks like some catenary poles in there too? I wonder if thats from the NYC station that was there.

[@gmpullman]

@gcalco Thanks Jerry! I'm sure glad I got to see the last vestiges of passenger trains around Cleveland. Mostly early '70's and on so no Alco's sadly. I did see the D&H (ATSF) trio running in fan trip service... Thanks for commenting!

[@AleksHarborBelt]

I thought state line tower, between Illinois and Indiana was the worlds largest with over 60 levers

[@Greatdome99]

6:00: GP35, not SD45. No flared radiators or six-wheel trucks on this one.

[@gmpullman]

In the description I corrected my wrong caption over ten years ago. Thanks for watching!

[@starmanm31]

My Grandfather ran that station in Mantua...

[@gmpullman]

That's really cool, Tim. That whole line was like an entire community in itself. Glad the depot is still there, but a McDonalds across the road? geez!

[@thomasabramson100]

At 0:35 CT tower track board can you PLEASE post a clean image

[@gmpullman]

I'll dig out the original and try to rescan it. I had this 8mm film transferred at Dodd Camera and it is definitely fuzzy. I have an album of CUT stuff here: www.flickr.com/photos/gmpullman/albums/72157695368994204/page1 Might take me a couple days to find the film and set up the scanner. Thanks, Ed

[@thomasabramson100]

@@gmpullman Thank you so much for the info . I still have memories of riding the "Cincinnati Limited" from NY Grand Central through Cleveland think we got there about 2:30 am and the NYC changed engines there

[@PleaseLookAwayNow]

Rapid Transit at 5:23 going opposite direction!

[@richardgerlach5156]

No sun in Cleveland?

[@gmpullman]

Not very often! The steel mills and coke ovens were still going strong :-)

[@brimac70]

@gmpullman as the old saying goes, "you don't know what you've got till it's gone"!

[@fairportrails107]

RIP :(

[@MIKECNW]

Wonder why? it would of been better than clooging up the streets & expressways with more cars, especially if there were enough riders of these lines.

[@maddkraut03]

nice old vid, that was a nice operation that nothing like it will probably never return to ne ohio.