Espresso Anatomy | Flat Flow Espresso Profiles Explained

[@darylfortney8081]

Would love to see you get into roasting and sharing your learning experiences. This is something significant outside of brewing that can really take appreciating espresso to the next level for many people and there are now many reasonable options for getting into it.

[@Sprometheus]

@@darylfortney8081 that’s definitely on the horizon. I’ve spoken with Aillio and should have a new Bullet V2 soon that I can’t wait to get into.

[@darylfortney8081]

@@Sprometheus can’t wait… I been using KL nano7 for awhile now but never got too deep in the profiles still but it is still great fun and of course the roast is always fresh. Have had my eye on Bullet since their launch but really wishing they made a half size one for 500g max at a lower price and ideally with wireless connectivity.

[@AntMelz]

@@Sprometheusthis is amazing, definitely would love roasting videos and even bean processing methods?

[@firedearthpottery2853]

​@@Sprometheus I have an R1V2, live in San Diego and would be happy to show you what I've learned since I got it about 6 months ago. Have to say the coffees been really wonderful once dialed in.

[@JonFairhurst]

Nice video. Yeah, no FOMO here. Since I bought and learned the Kaffelogic Nano 7 and developed my roasting skills, I’m less and less enamored with these obscure methods. (I have no association with Kaffelogic. I’m a happy, paying customer.) The effect of buying a different green bean, roasting variations, and cupping is so fundamental to optimizing different coffee experiences. My wife and I get to select beans and roast to our preferences. It doesn’t hurt that it costs 1/4 to 1/3 the price of roasted beans. I’m not saying that different espresso styles wouldn’t change things up, but it’s never going to make my signature Brazilian honey taste like our optimized Ethiopian dry. That said, I’m looking forward to when the Philos starts shipping in the US. We might just need to recup our beans and tweak the roast profiles to match the new burrs…

[@petercaddy]

I’m with you. I’ve got the Nucleus Link and have been learning to roast from home, it’s a game changer for tuning coffee to your liking.

[@kevinalvarado3724]

Hahahaha, it was my question, thanks for the answer! Right now I have a Lelit Elizabeth (their semi automatic dual boiler), I was thinking of maybe doing the dimmer mod to have some flow control, but since I don't want to get so much data driven (I'm a PhD student in physics, I already do a lot of numbers in my life), I thought that I would maybe get one of the timemore scales that give you the flow rate if I do the mod. That way I wouldn't rely on an app to brew coffee, just try to get the flow steady and shoot for the right weight, all shown in the scale. When I finish my PhD in a few months maybe I'll do it. Again, thanks for the answer!

[@devenpatel3044]

maybe get a flair so you can feel the pressure/flow.

[@grahamwhiting6567]

Enjoyed this, as always with your reflections on coffee. My go to espresso shot is actually very similar to this, but I work off pressure staying flat line, rather than flow. I use my Lelit Bianca paddle to reduce flow as the shot progresses whilst holding a flat or slightly declining 6 to 8 bar. One virtue of this profile is that I can taste and see how a batch of beans are drying over a couple of weeks and adjust grind if I want to, to maintain the shot around 23-28 seconds for an 18g in 40g out espresso.

[@caycaycoffee]

I found watching that flat profile quite satisfying to watch. 😂 interesting tests, thanks for sharing! ❤

[@Tom-sq9co]

SO happy to see the return to “Espresso Anatomy” series.

[@christopherschaefer8279]

Thanks for doing these experiments.

[@ianaguiarsouza]

The BEST series on espresso on YT, hands down

[@gigi9467]

Reinventing the wheel.

[@mabell01]

@@gigi9467 You're obviously a regular coffee drinker. LMAO 😄

[@michaelrossmaessler200]

@@mabell01 That's funny. 🙃

[@keinenplanhatter7324]

For me it sounds like the most robot User do this the most time. Starting with 1-2 Bar and than ramp down on 6-7 Bar. Tank you for your gratis Chanel!

[@cjoysoy]

Great calm vibe❤

[@Sprometheus]

@@cjoysoy thank you my friend!

[@1967davidfitness]

Hi Prometheus, can I ask which lever machine you love most? I have a desire to switch from a Gaggia Classic to a lever, but with a PID if possible. Please keep up making amazing videos, cheers.

[@noyb-yb]

I appreciate your videos. IME, the short story is: my Profitec Pro 500 PID machine is set at =9 bar pressure and I do not touch it. The end. TLDR - there are too many other significant variables that make or break espresso/ristretto, just as you said. The grind size and grinder quality, beans, distribution, dose, water quality and temperature. Add, to a lesser extent, the filter basket types and sizes and lately even the puck screen too. The number of permutations of all of these is so great that playing with the pressure profiles seems to me to be counterproductive in practice even if in theory every little bit may help. Peace.

[@NoyPi6step]

would love to see more of your "Coffee Time - Morning Workflow" :)

[@Sprometheus]

@@NoyPi6step I have more of those coming soon as well. Have some big plans with those kinds of videos coming next year

[@weaverryanj]

The Rao Allongé often comes out like this for me, though usually with a slight drop in flow as pressure peaks out. I don’t bother taking the time to dial it in perfectly to keep the flow flat, because it’s too easy to slip over the boundary into “too coarse” and miss six bar

[@komiteunofficialaccount9224]

Question: If you have the CRM3007L/Turin Legato/Miicoffee Apex, is this what you're having? OPV-less machine with set-and-forget flow control screw. Pressure that can peak at 10+ bars that ramps down to 6-9 bars.

[@marcin.sobocinski]

I do it manually 😄 as I do not have a Decent, but I have manual flow control @ the pump. Basically I do high pressure puck saturation, then preinfusion with

[@propertwb]

Since you use TWW, are you using it full strength? Great video as always.

[@Sprometheus]

@@propertwb yep, i use a full packet on a gallon of distilled water. Originally I tested portions, even mixing blends together. It didn’t seem to make a difference so much in the cup, was hard to replicate perfectly, took up a good amount of time, and haven’t found/or had any scale issues so it seems to be plenty safe to go that route, at least with distilled water.

[@propertwb]

@@Sprometheus Good to know. Thanks so much for the response. Take care.

[@MaSk0r]

In order to have a flat flow the pressure has to change significantly during the espresso shot and not only between 6-9 bars. That's why you had to grind coarse enough and you managed to do it with a flow rate of 3-4g/s which is relatively high. A typical one to two shot with 18gr of ground coffee and 36 gr out would run in around 12 seconds. I am not sure why you didn't try higher pressure on the decent as it can up to 13 bars. Unless you did and it couldn't actually maintain a true flat flow. Leva machines are the closest we can get atm for relatively flat flow due to it's decreasing pressure and really high starting starting pressure (regulating the spring can push the starting pressure well above 13 bar) As for electronically controlled machines available today if the decent can't cut it, only the Strada X might have a chance with pressure profiling and peek pressure of 12 bar.

[@Sprometheus]

@@MaSk0r the pressure definitely changed significantly in my opinion, 1 to 7 and back down. I tried higher pressure peaks, up to 13 and the shots were very punchy and astringent to my palate and didn’t like them. As soon as I went coarser things like the flow and pressure aligned, but the extractions tasted much better. So in short, much like any form of espresso there’s more than one way to do it, but in terms of dialing in a flat flow to taste this seemed to be the best way over a variety of coffees I found.

[@MaSk0r]

​@@Sprometheusfair enough, I didn't get from the video that you tried multiple flat profiles. Only that you got there by changing the grind settings. Maybe you are on to something though as dalla corte first flow rate setting on their mina and zero starts at 3ml/s.

[@ende421]

The Maro Model One can do flow based profiles.

[@ivanprisco2525]

Don't forget direct lever machine.... virtually can do anything. 🙃

[@gregorio5543]

I’ve been playing with flow and pressure on my Gaggia Classic modded gaggiuino. Not gonna lie, I seem to pressure pressure profiles over flow. Flow seems to be more for filter coffee tasting shots. Londinium and spring lever profiles make better coffee imo. If anything were to break on my machine I think I’d get a spring lever over a Decent or anything like it

[@alexwilson27]

So we’re just all gonna ignore “sproducken?”

[@Sprometheus]

@@alexwilson27 ya know, it was early in the video a lot of folks may have not been fully locked in at that point…

[@michaelrossmaessler200]

Coffee, espresso especially is a combination of science and art. Science is the starting point but if your instincts take you a bit off the beaten path go there and see what you get, sometimes it's good. 🙂

[@BorrowedKnowledge]

Thought the title said “Flat Earth Explained”

[@Sprometheus]

@@BorrowedKnowledge I’m really changing gears from espresso to conspiracy theories

[@Lectuz]

Been doing my own for a year now. I start at 9 bar with max flow, then when it reaches 9 bar it moves on to the next step which maintains the flow at 1.6 ml with a 9-bar limit.

[@Sprometheus]

@@Lectuz originally I tried out setting limits for pressure, mostly because over 9 the shots started to taste pretty rough. But it also seemed to use the flow to manage the pressure and it produced some dips in the rate. So with the right grind, peaking around 6-7 bars I found the shots tasting really good, and the flow was flat. All in all I’m sure they’re all multiple ways to achieve it with the software, but I kind went the old fashioned route and just utilized the readout to help me adjust the traditional variables.

[@a3455666]

​@@SprometheusFlow is pressure over resistance; Pressure is flow times resistance. This relation is non-linear because of the pump's characteristic curve. Still, flow and pressure are directly related and an adjustment of one will change the other. I would have preferred some more theory in the video making this clear.

[@fernandog.aguirre2791]

This is way to much for a simple and tasty real cup of coffee. I grew up in between Europe, Argentina and Brazil where coffee is a real thing but simply!!

[@michaelrossmaessler200]

Do French Press, even when it's not perfect it's still very good and easy to do in the morning when one is not quite awake.

[@Isilrrond]

Someone can tell me why “Pony Boy”???

[@PCRoss2469]

First I've heard of it. Just another measurement and focus of measurement to stuff we're already doing I think

[@bobgruner]

👍🥀👕

[@cricocoo]

Interesting and entertaining watch, but no science behind flat flow giving better taste. If there is anything it is a coffee geek taste boost, because the underlying extraction logic has no interest in how the flow curve looks like. If there are double blind experiments showing otherwise, let me know ;)

[@greysuit17]

Never heard of it until now.

[@gigi9467]

No, I’m not buying a decent no matter how much they’re trying to sell it i’ll keep mysynchronica

[@makspyat]

There is Flair 58 that is periodically on sale for way under $500. If flow or pressure profile is relevant to you then you might be consuming your espresso straight, w/o milk. This is the niche where Flair 58 (especially if you are into lighter roasts) or Robot makes a lot of sense. For context, I replaced Profitec Pro 300 after a few years of service with Flair 58 precisely because I was not exactly enjoying the flat profile....

[@Sprometheus]

@@gigi9467 if you’ve got flow control on the Synchronika you’re all set. And my Decent will soon be someone else’s as I plan on selling it soon.

[@ericanderson1753]

@@Sprometheus what machine is next?

[@gigi9467]

@@Sprometheus i dont, ive played with it and it seemed to be another complication and didnt notice a difference to make me get thr accessory personally

[@ZacharyPinder]

@@Sprometheus just a casual bombshell, nbd

[@sympathetic_crustacean]

Can't imagine a 4g/s flow rate. For me, over 2g/s and I find that the flavors in the cup lose their punch.

[@VinegarAndSaltedFries]

Obviously taste is subjective…but ABSOLUTELY NOT worth the effort.

[@VinegarAndSaltedFries]

I don’t even truly believe changing flow rate is worth it tbh because it really adds another variable in with something you ideally want to be able to replicate. For some coffee’s I see the point but for me I don’t necessarily think those are the best coffee’s for Espresso. Preinfusion using Ljne Pressure is wonderful but even that can throw off some things and coffee’s.

[@gregorio5543]

@@VinegarAndSaltedFriesI think it depends on the coffees you use. If you’re a medium/dark drinker there is no reason to play with flow control outside of preinfusion. Flow rates add clarity and sweetness/reduces acidity to lighter roasts. Also pre infusion is always a good idea as it lightly fully saturates the puck and allows for puck integrity when you go to a higher pressure

[@VinegarAndSaltedFries]

@@gregorio5543 yeah you honestly hit the nail on the head although I don’t full agree flow rates = increased clarity and sweetness. I think for some coffee’s that may be true, but that is not an absolute. This coming from a person who absolutely loves Light Roast in a 3 minute on the dot Pour over with his melodrip and OREA, and also loves his Hario Switch with immersion brews and Espresso Roasted Light Roast for his LaMarzocco (previously Profitec). Where I think the biggest disconnect is for me is roasters who say their light roast should be used for espresso when they haven’t changed anything on the roasting end. I’ll be honest the decisions of how the consumer should brew their coffee is essentially made at the roaster level. It’s why great roasters are so difficult to find and why if you find a great local one you should cherish them. Currently as far as Light Roasts go with Espresso I’m enjoying Castillo Tambo from Tim Wendleboe, and just ordered some Leuchtfeuer for next month (as I go through 2 kilo’s of espresso roast a month) Bottom line is if you like experimenting try stuff, it’s fun and worth it. ( I did it for many many years) but the longer i’ve been in this the more you start to appreciate simplicity and a more refined approach. Espresso certainly is interesting. A more modern industrial way to consume something people have used traditionally for 1000 years

[@Sprometheus]

@@VinegarAndSaltedFries haha yeah it’s a lot of fuss for a good shot that doesn’t seem to be massively different from other preparations.