Ethics at Altitude: Lincoln Hall, Greg Child, James Tabor

From original 2007 BMFF Program: Today’s high-altitude expeditions play out their ethical dilemmas in the spotlight of media attention. In the early years of mountaineering, the decisions to attempt - or not to attempt - the rescue of a helpless teammate or stranger were discussed in print months or years later. Now, they’re debated on talk shows within 24 hours of the event. An "Alpinist" editorial deplores the broad public impression that morality stops at a pre-ordained altitude. Others muse that the questionable ethical decisions are mostly products of the “brand name” mountains. It seems that the most negative stories are the most broadly reported and the most positive stories get little press. Our panelists have seen both sides, firsthand.
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[@evab.6240]

These guys are just awesome. Down to earth, realistic, honest, extremely likeable. RIP Lincoln Hall.

[@SouthAfricanLivingAbroadDiary]

What?

[@minshullmisako]

@@SouthAfricanLivingAbroadDiary Yeah, he's gone.

[@amandajstar]

Isn't there also the elephant in the living room that if you're that concerned about surviving and not being left to twist in the wind, DON'T GO UP THE MOUNTAIN?

[@flip3198]

Yes it is. It just doesn't occur to these addicts.

[@DrPommels]

the ethics should be easy.... your first job is get home alive, your second job is to help others where it doesn't prevent your first priority.... the third priority is summiting....

[@PetraKann]

You forgot the Number 1 priority for all humans

[@davecarsley8773]

Exactly. Pretty simple stuff.

[@jamiejohnson8259]

NY and

[@kathyborthwick6738LakotaEmoji]

The independent variable here is : Brain Function not moral turpitude I 🤔 think ?

[@Phoenixhunter157]

I think you stated that very well

[@GS-tg7qg]

1) First of all, thank you for posting the interview, J.T. Now, I have an action list for you. 2) Hall repeatedly said that he has no ill feeling that Sherpas left him. Hall also told that he kicked one Sherpa's wounded leg and pushed one sherpa down. But James kept on asking Hall about "Shaerpas's Bad treatment". Child also repeatedly told Sherpas take care of the Climbers" well. But until Hall revealed one sharpa hitting him, etc. ( see the video) , Tabor kept "asking him and Child FOR BAD sharpas". 3) WILL tabor collect ALL the SHARPAs' names who carried the Oxygen and served 'BISCUITs" on a PLATE for the "climbers" to eat. The climbers were ALL sitting on the CHAIRs the sharpas brought on their back and arranged it on the ground. 3b) reveal all the Sherpas's names and the PHOTOS on KZbin, WHO died while BRINGING the CLIMBERS on their back RESCUEING them? 3c) Of COurse, the PAY to THOSE sharpas" for RESCUEING the CLIMBERS skiiled and unskilled CLIMBERS on the you Tube video? 3d) on and on ... 4) I admire Child very much for openly telling the truth about the motivation for his business. 5) I admire Hall very much for not blaming the Sherpas's community but being honest about his illness and not holding "bad feelings" towards them. 6) It is very KIND that Hall and Child want to honor the Sherpas by saying "nice qualities" of the Shepa COMMUNITY. 7) James Tabor, I gave you an action list earlier: here it is once more a youTube video revealing the names and the photos of ALL the Sharpas who CARRY the 'dining table, chair, tent, Oxygen, etc and the CLIMBERS, when NEEDED on their back and the INCOME they GET to take to their families, to their parents, wives, children, sisters, brothers and to their living cost. 8) My response to Jay B, who commented: You criticized that the Sherpas DID NOT CARRY Hall on their back and wanted me to see another video as a "proof". Now, I have a question for you: Why don't you EXPECT MORE? That is, for the Sherpas to carry the Climbers on the BACK all the way to SUMMIT and then bring them down? WOULDn't be more comfort to the Climbers who give $65K+ to the Companies and COUNT the "PENNIES" the COMPANIES give to Sharpas and "BARGAN" with Sherpas? ( DISCLAIMER for the Current Wage for the Sherpas: Ancient time bargaining wage information. I do not have any Labour fee to the Individual Sherpas in 2020 from the Expedition companies.) After placing the clients on top of Summit, the Sherpas can take the photos and the "CLIENTS" can write in their Blogs with the PROOF of the PHOTO and make a MOVIE about THEM standing on the Summit of Mount Everest?. Finally, I also wanted to climb Everest and picked up a book. In that book, the Author explained the preparations. IN one phase, she expressed "ANGER" that the sherpas wanted 10 rupees more and the Author was fighting for 10 Rupees. ( Today's conversion rate: 73 rupees for a US dollar.) The author was "bargaining with the sherpas" to save dollars. HOW many dollars for the WHOLE trip? What was the budget to summit? That attitude made me 'Throw up" and I put the book down and I thought about the Sherpas and how important their "strength and their back" for me to summit. I imagined myself sitting in the Tent the sherpas put up, making my food, bringing them to me . That is what my mother does to me - cooking and giving me tasty food to eat. My desire to climb mount Everest went away. Nowadays I prefer hiking trials and climbed "Mission Peak" every weekend with my family. I stand on the top, take deep breaths and become proud that I carried my water bottles, Apples and my jacket around my hip. We eat our Apples and bring our left over, the core of apples and empty water bottles around our hips or on our back pack. Take shower, enjoy a nice dinner before retiring in our bed. Every now and then, I watch videos of climbing Mt. Everest and I am thankful to God that we have Halls, Childs and others similar to their character with gratitude in their hearts among us to appreciate what sherpas do for the 'CLIENTS'.

[@Longtack55]

Well said. I despise the expectations of untermenchen who want to be hauled up Mt Everest. It's an elite sport requiring top fitness, strength, experience and health for a small number of QUALIFIED people. Money alone disqualifies you.

[@ericastier1646]

I only read your last paragraph, so i'll react on that. Your right and wrong. I applaude your attitude of how you don't have to go to everest, every mountain is worth a climb. Reinhold Messner favorite moutains isn't in the Himalayas it's the Dolomites near the valley he was born. Your climb to that Mission peak is more worthy than the ego trip of some underserving rich corporate executive jerk planting his corporate sponsors flag at the top and polluting. So you're right on all that. But you're wrong about Sherpas. They're mercenaries they do it 100.0000000000% for the money. They offer a service and are not your friend, being friendly is part of the necessary attitude for a good climb. So don't fancy that sherpas are in any way there to share an adventure, they're earning a living at that is strictly it. No they do not deserve the heroic praise you want to shower on them, when they do heroic things it's because for every sherpa position there are 20 other sherpas competing to get the position who are not selected and do not get paid. They are building a reputation for $$$$. They're making a living they're not doing any benevolent or charitable action, don't be a fool.

[@Ghostshadows306]

@@ericastier1646As far as your take on the Sherpas I agree as it’s the reality. The whole narrative that the Sherpa community are these wonderful people compared to westerners is racist horsesh-t. They are people no different than any others who are shaped by their environment and circumstances.

[@ericastier1646]

@@Ghostshadows306 Bravo my friend, glad people are starting to wake up to the rcist horsesh-t that's been thrown at us by the J media monopoly establishment. History knows that they have followed this tactic in many countries turning people against one another

[@junerockstar9969]

“As climbers, we need to sacrifice our comfort, our safety, and arguably our sanity, as a tithe to the mountain...We need the mountains but the mountains do not need us.” ~ Lincoln Hall RIP Lincoln Hall 😪

[@JustMe-nf1mf]

Broke my heart that cancer took such a good man :o(

[@MrRdh567]

Blaze me if you will, but I think any man or woman who put themselves into this intense amount of danger is selfish when they have kid's at home. Wait until your children are out of the house or don't have kids if this is your cup of tea. I feel the same way about other dangerous pursuits for the love of it...meaning not your job. Sad.

[@AG-iu9lv]

I don't think you should give up what you love to have children. If you're going to do highly dangerous hobbies, though, you need to get life insurance that doesn't exclude that activity, & have a will at minimum but it's better if you have your estate in trust.

[@IhaveaDoghouse]

37:00 so after Lincoln Hall tried to push a sherpa over on the mountain and kicked another sherpa in his injured leg he complains about the sherpas who came up to save him the next day? They wanted him to walk first so he couldn't push any of them to their deaths, he wasn't in a state of mind to be trusted and he proved that. Very weird to say anything ill about what the sherpas did to SAVE HIS LIFE, if not for those same sherpas he was saying are "an exception" he would be dead.

[@DaleRFetz]

Self reliance is the bottom line! Knowing your abilities, strengths and weaknesses and the willingness to allow others to intervene and help. Responsibility is key: maturity of mind and heart. Lincoln Hall's story is miraculous. He overcame death and chose life!!! Supernatural!

[@JustMe-nf1mf]

Thank you very much for sharing this! Maybe even a more relevant conversation today.

[@SuperKathio]

Never pass up an opportunity to be a Good Samaritan. Someday you may need one. ( preaching to myself.)

[@AG-iu9lv]

I am a certified emergency first responder. 100% of those certifications beat into you that you always ensure your own safety and confirm a minimum of two routes of safe egress before rendering aid, because your first responsibility is to avoid becoming another individual in need of assistance. Always put your own mask on before assisting others.

[@danm7671]

How was your trip? I spent $70k, didn't summit, and tried to save someone who didn't belong on the mountain. And I DIED. I love how these guys compare helping someone who is on the street. You enter the DEATH ZONE and expect to be saved and endanger everyone.

[@dianamincher6479]

Dan Mazur was the saviour of Lincoln and he changed the mindset of his companions!

[@toyslucas9237]

Wait you mean you could afford 70 but not 75? If everyone paid an extra 5k they could have a very proper mountain rescue team. Just admit that climbers don't care

[@albertawheat6832]

Andrew Brash saved Lincoln Halls life so, Yes it can be done.

[@amandajstar]

Greg Child is surprising and impressive. Sensible, balanced, wise.

[@patriciablue2739]

I want to hear about every rescue that turns out successfully. I also think others do to. Under those extreme circumstances…heroic.

[@Darwinsmom]

There are three personalities associated with Everest I would have loved to sit down over coffee with: Tenzing Norgay, Sir Edmund Hillary and Lincoln Hall. Prior to my trip to Australia in 2005 I tried to find a presentation or lecture by Lincoln but there were none going on. In lieu of waiting until I cross over myself, I will have to settle for finding and reading their respective books. Rest in peace, gentlemen. Set down your crampons and ice axes and enjoy eternal rest.

[@albertawheat6832]

What about Andrew Brash ?

[@Longtack55]

Russell Brice retired from guiding in 2021. He's a good solid sensible disciplined New Zealander and much respected - as we see here.

[@OziBlokeTimG]

Basically, mountain climbing is dangerous. Bad stuff happens. and people die. Luck also plays a part. There is no certainty. It's an adventure, that's why we're watching this channel. Keep it up guys, loving everyone. Do your best to help if you have an opportunity.

[@donnaransom3770]

At 1:04.47 the question was asked about the competition between expeditions ~ I didn't find their answers very responsive. I'm speaking in particular about the 1996 Adventure Consultants and Mountain Madness expeditions in which 8 persons lost their lives, including both guides, Rob Hall and Scott Fisher, as portrayed in Krakauer's account called "Into Thin Air." I wish they would have responded to that appalling display of bad judgement, which directly resulted from expedition competition.

[@JustMe-nf1mf]

The fact & reality is the assumption it was a result of competition or rivalry is 100% wrong! In fact Scott Fisher asked & Rob Hall gave advice many times as it was Scott's first time leading an everest expedition 🙄

[@albertawheat6832]

@@JustMe-nf1mf Weird how people comment and judge but their conclusion confirms they didn't research the subject.

[@gregkosinski2303]

@@JustMe-nf1mf there was so competition. Fischer was hoping to become commercially successful in the same way Hall had been. The idea to subsidize Krakauer’s trip up the mountain was Fischer’s brainchild, but the powers that be at Outside magazine took the idea to Hall and asked if he could beat the price, which he did. In fairness, they probably also viewed this as the safer option as Hall had a long record of safely guiding clients up Everest.

[@1ifbyland2ifbysea]

Lincoln hall truly made climbing great again with all his rescues

[@jupitorious7925]

Just got to the end, forgot that Rob Hall sadly passed away... a very interesting listen during an evening of warming a hillside hut..

[@ericastier1646]

High altitude mountain climbing is inherently Russian roulette and this is not an overstatement, in this case it is a true statement. It is no different than casino gambling in that aspect (and the addiction) except lives are gambled instead of money. So i see the question of rescueing others at high altitude analogous to do you gamble your own fund to make up for the total loss of another gambler ? It's like a rational question in an already irational situation.

[@gregkosinski2303]

Well said. Aside from rockfall, avalanches, general weather, even the best in the world with tons of summits without oxygen can suddenly succumb to altitude sickness. Üli Steck is arguably the highest level mountaineer of all time, and it appears he may have simply made a misstep. Or been caught by a gust of wind or whatever. The consequences for even minor mistakes are off the charts.

[@KatWoodland]

Your comment is intelligent @Eric Astier AND insightful!

[@jsenear]

I have watched a couple of the interviews with Lincoln Hall. Reading the first comment below mine tells me he died. I am saddened by that.

[@deaddropholiday]

Scott being "just a few miles from safety" is a bit of a myth. Even if they'd staggered to the next depot they were physically shot. Scott's feet were gone. Wilson wasn't far behind and wouldn't leave him anyway. Maybe Bowers could have made a run for Cape Evans. But it was what? 150 - 200 miles away?? With winter closing in they were already enduring temperatures below the lowest point of the thermometer. If by some miracle Bowers made it back the chances of any rescue operation finding Scott alive in those conditions were non-existent. Indeed, the likeliest outcome is the rescue party gets into serious trouble. Scott's fate was sealed weeks earlier when they reached the summit plateau and burned up all their strength man-hauling to the pole in horrendous conditions. At 10,000 feet and exerting themselves beyond the limit they were burning calories at two or three times the rate they'd budgeted. Very soon after they turn for home (way before they arrive at the top of the Beardmore) you begin to hear ominous references about "cold feet" and insatiable hunger. The situation was exacerbated by Evans frightening deterioration (I think it's more likely he faded because he was a big man and burned up his energy reserves that much quicker) and then spending far too long walking at the pace of the slowest member, Oates, when it was obvious to everyone he would never make it back. Scott has gotten a lot of criticism for some of the decisions he made (particularly the decision to man-haul even though Shackleton had almost made it to the pole in similar fashion years earlier). But overall I think it's largely unwarranted. Like many explorers - he just didn't know what he didn't know.

[@shaunhunter5850]

Nice account, interesting perspective too. I have to agree

[@csmtcqueen]

What is this accomplishment if you need sherpas to plan the route, fix the ropes, prepare your meals AND carry your bags???

[@incidentalist]

That's THEIR JOB.......

[@celestinij]

Still plenty challenging. But I do agree, at a certain point it gets ridiculous. People eating 4 star meals at Everest base camp is dumb. Half the point of summiting is roughing it.

[@listrahtes]

Try it and then tell us. Its always funny when people talk about it like its a hike. Yes in a way its not much climbing but even there look at Khumbu. Just crossing the Khumbu can be very challenging and extremely dangerous. Often the most dangerous part. Hillary Step is still a climb be that fixed rope or not. Its an accomplishment were you have to test your absolute limits and can die in a heartbeat without doing anything wrong. Plenty of high level guys have died there with Oxygen on standard route.

[@dianamincher6479]

Nothing wrong with Sherpa help. It feeds the Sherpas and their families and makes the ascent more comfortable for the climbers! It promotes teamwork and cultural assimilation.

[@sunkintree]

@@incidentalist throw money into a toilet, suddenly it's got a job too

[@fantastischfish]

The discussion in which Greg states that expedition participants (eg. Russell Brice’s clients) couldn’t possibly help in a rescue is interesting. Everyone who climbs Everest has to climb Everest for the first time, and most people paying Brice that money are first time climbers. It’s actually reasonable that a first time climber would only be able to get themselves up and down, pushing to the very edge of their own capabilities. Is it immoral for them to be unable to assist others?

[@AG-iu9lv]

It's immoral of them to go in the first place.

[@sandralahaie5569]

I know they hold pre climbs to acclimatize the clients but they should evaluate the climbers as well and if they do not pass the basic talent test they should not be allowed to climb until they get more training..as they risk all the lives of the others who are climbing with them

[@QQ-my2rq]

Most of died on Everest were professional trained experienced climbers

[@mickclarke5741]

Altitude sickness doesn't discriminate between good and bad climbers

[@kellywagner6959]

Just my opinion but I believe in helping others with anything I possibly can because I believe in do unto others as you'd have them do to you. Sadly people should not have to "know" a person to help another human being. God bless 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲

[@ericastier1646]

Now people go to circus maximus (everest) for corporate adventure team binding or to get their picture taken on top, it's a joke and yes they make it to the top while 10 sherpas gladly carry all the oxygen bottles they need to get that fat check. It's all an ego trip for the nasty rich.

[@luciad5988]

Lincoln complaining about his rescuers doesn’t sit right with me. They got him down the damn mountain, rather than leaving him there. He lived on borrowed time from there on. Gratitude would have been more appropriate

[@raquelmerlo779]

Lucia D couldn’t agree more. Also, based on a few documentaries I watched, where his own statement was spoken, he did not collaborate with the rescue and almost took three other lives with him. He kicked, beat and resisted to accept assistance from the sherpas. Whether he was hallucinating or simply “feeling hopeless”, he should be more thankful

[@ceylonin7289]

@@raquelmerlo779 Agree. That´s not what I call a hero

[@rogerpattube]

Lucia D: Saint Scanderbeg has probably said it all but I can't help wonder how one should be grateful for someone assaulting you wit an ice axe. BTW they did leave him there (out of necessity). He was rescued the next day by Mazur and co.

[@madhatter909]

the question he was answering was about attitude of the Europeans and the Sherpas. Even though he had rallied they were not listening to him as an experiened climber

[@madhatter909]

@@raquelmerlo779 he admits this he was oxygen deprived and hallucinating which he didn't know until the sherpa's told him AFTER

[@debwalls9405]

RIP David Sharp. They did leave him to die just so they cld summit that day. :( Not one of them stopped to check him on the spot which may have made a big difference. 9 hours later when they finally gave him oxygen he came round and was able to talk a little. if they had done this on the way up what a difference this would have made.

[@dianamincher6479]

Dead lucky was Lincoln Hall that he was saved!

[@JustMe-nf1mf]

@@dianamincher6479 Yup there were good Canadians with humanity at the right place at the right time!

[@albertawheat6832]

@@JustMe-nf1mf Andrew Brash from Calgary AB.

[@rosalindmartin4469]

Amazing stories. The legacy of determination + strength × more... Masculinisms amaze me still after 78 years🤣 of observing this. A female from birth, I never sought risk... In fact, at 5yrs old I was locked in a barracks portable room as punishment for speaking back to a teacher and i was wondering if I'd ever get home. So I pushed a desk to the windows, climbed atop and looked over the metal frame. "Hmmm, sharp metal to climb thru, I will be scratched and bleed ... hard ground far enough below to hurt my ankle or leg badly and prevent my limping home. ...nope, I will wait awhile." Yet my ex-BF jumped out of planes parachuting. I say "EX" partly because she died instantly driving into another car taking only the other driver's right leg. Go big or go Home... Leading by bleeding. Etc. May stay for a very long time. Ethics has very little to do with these extremes. 🐢🐒

[@JustMe-nf1mf]

There are MANY female adrenaline junkies as well! Fact is for years it's not that they didn't want to but were not permitted ;o)

[@jodylowe8476]

Read Child's material. Easily one of the most impressive resumes out there in the mountains.

[@rocnoir4233]

Don't forget Tim Macartney-Snape

[@spaceman61]

If I paid $50,000+ for this climb and I was on my way up, and I saw someone in need of help I could not go by them, even if everyone else was, I would try to help them even if I could not, I just could not walk by someone dying. If all I could do was try to comfort them and pray with them thats what I would do until I personally had to descend to save my own life.....thats just me, fault or not

[@JustMe-nf1mf]

That's common decent humanity & is in fact helping, unlike the selfish unwilling to forgo their goal :o(

[@alisonwilson9749]

And how much experience do you have at those altitudes? Those who have pretty much all take a different view. Why do you think that is?

[@AG-iu9lv]

@@earthlingandextra watch a video of a person in hypoxia. I don't care who you are, when your brain is starved of oxygen & you are completely burned out physically because you are actively dying, it becomes literally impossible to think like that.

[@gregkosinski2303]

There were climbers who attempted to help him. A couple gave him oxygen to try to revive him, but unfortunately nothing worked.

[@mikehunt9884]

my understanding is that the ppl like lincoln or gau or even beck, that got rescued up high, were somewhat mobile and able to walk or drag themselves, and so this is why ppl put more efforts into rescuing them. Now i don't know much about what happened with that David Sharp guy, aside from what they showed in some documentary.. but apparently he was sitting there in that cave not moving at all..

[@toyslucas9237]

Lincoln got left for dead yet wasn't. alive eniugh to survive overnight and walk himself back only to be FORGOTTEN about again and left in his tent for 12hrs dying

[@mikehunt9884]

@@toyslucas9237 when he was able to move, he got helped, when he couldn't he got left. see how it works?

[@toyslucas9237]

@@mikehunt9884 Yes, I do, but what you just said is the opposite of what happened during the 96" tragedy where 3 sick clients where descending with guides and sherpa's in that whiteout storm. They were very close to Camp 2 and then a female climber passed out along with Beck. The 3rd climber, guide, and 3 sherpa's made it back to the north col in 10 minutes. When they got there, 3 climbers who had JUST returned from the summit climbed BACK UP the mountain to find Beck and Scott. One of those who went up to help was without oxygen all during his summit trip. They only found Scott's dead body and one other living climber who -again- had to be left for dead because of the lazy climbers who couldn't muster the will to eat something, hydrate, grab oxygen and climb 10 mins to find the 2 stranded climbers Beck/Japanese girl.....They were collapsed on flat snow and could've easily been slid down without much help. Instead of dying, Beck woke up 6 hours later blind, frozen and frostbitenn and walked himself back to north col where he was near death and was put in his tent. You would think though that the 20 other climbers who were within 30ft of his tent would tend to him and make sure a plan was made to get him down. Instead Beck laid in his tent with not a single visitor or medical attention for 12hrs despite the 2 dozen healthy and rested climbers all of whom aware that 6 people were dead or missing and were even too lazy to check on Beck and the ones who weren't too lazy simply didn't even know he had made it back. his muffled yelling grabbed the attention of the 20th of 21climbers who were now heading DOWN to base camp otherwise he would've died. the prior night only 2 climbers had the will to go back up and saave their friends one was a Russian climber I mentioned who had no oxygen. It says more about the ones who didn't even try than it does about the one or two who were the MOST tired and at risk of self-harm. Two Sherpas even managed to make it from North col to the second step THREE TIMES during that 36hr period to try and deliver oxygen to stranded climbers.

[@albertawheat6832]

@@toyslucas9237 That was Beck Weathers.

[@hedginbets7356]

@@toyslucas9237 I believe the Russian climber you mention is Boukreev. His actions in going back to help climbers get back from the South Col were heroic but both Krakauer and Beidleman (who for me was the most heroic) pointed out his selfishness in not helping out clients earlier in the day and he gave up on Beck and Namba, too, thinking they were too far gone to survive. No-one comes out guilt-free from the '96 expedition, there were so many mistakes made. I agree with you on the actions of the climbers who hadn't been up that day, and the sherpas at camp 4 who didn't help Boukreev search - I can imagine the fear that the storm produced but even so! The South African team (led by Woodall and O'Dowd) refused to even lend their radios to help contact Hall on the mountain.

[@GS-tg7qg]

My bad: (Please read my comment I posted few minutes ago.) 1) I have the names wrong. The interviewer is Dougald MacDonald. It is not James Tabor. 2) The action list is meant for the interviewer: D. MacDonald not for J.T. Actually, the action list is for whoever made this interview, recorded and posted it on youTube. 3) Please forgive my typoes, spelling errors, etc. 4) I did not make any comments about James Tabor, because my comment is already too long.

[@mikejones9961]

idiot

[@JayB2]

There have been cases where Sherpas have been able to rescue climbers from *28,000* ft (in the Death Zone). who ran out of oxygen & collapsed. Even though they were "unable to walk or stand", the Sherpas tied ropes around them & slid them down the side of the mountain & saved both of them. So you cant tell me its impossible if the person cant walk. video here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWbPlaKEn8l1a8U

[@dianebays5484]

Yes!!!

[@nehemydavis461]

That's why the case you mentioned is a very great achievement. The risks is too high for normal climber (not sherpas). Even for sherpas, it's still a high risk and threat to try to save someone (in the death zone). Yeah it is not impossible, but only some can do that.

[@domesticterrorist483]

That was on the snowy SE ridge where it is possible to drag7slide a body. Even so that took several Sherpas. David Sharp was on the north ridge which is mostly rock, especially down to the camp 2. A very different kettle of fish. It is impossible to carry a grown man at that altitude.

[@AG-iu9lv]

Possible and stupid are not mutually exclusive.

[@davidschneide5422]

A railway to base camp & seasonal helicopter lease would increase efficiency exponentially and make it feasible to remove garbage. The former is a paltry government investment in lieu of the expensive price of admission, and the latter is possible with collaboration amongst guide companies. Sadly, profit margins are more important than safety, convenience, and environmental respect.

[@sportsmediaamerica]

Hall, may he rest in peace, here seems an uncomfortable mix of arrogance and embarrassment. It's probably tough on an ego to have to admit to oneself that you couldn't make it down without someone saving your life. Meanwhile, the general discussion reveals and, to me, reinforces the notion that the community of climbers is made up largely of sociopaths.

[@rogerpattube]

You're a poor judge of people, mistaking his self-deprecating dry humour with "arrogance and embarrassment". BTW, are you a psychiatrist.

[@warshipsatin8764]

you look and sound like a massive tool

[@suziecreamcheese211]

I don’t think you are too far off from the sociopathic part. Mr. Hall however in his defense, may be just a bit embarrassed.

[@dianamincher6479]

Agreed. The western climbers couldn't climb up to the south summit to collect Rob Hall but rather sent 4 very exhausted Sherpas to attempt a rescue. Rob I feel died mainly of hubris and decided to regress into entitled passivity! But he managed to help himself to extra oxygen cached on the summit summit to play out the dramatic final act! All of which took a nearly 12 hour safety window?

[@dianamincher6479]

@@rogerpattube No, but he could have put in some effort. Highly unlikely that 2 Sherpas could have carried Rob Hall on a stretcher. Rob had a psychological block. The distance between the South Coll and the Summit is 1.7 of a mile.

[@MADDLADO1]

Great subject matter

[@amandajstar]

But the question then is whether the man that died that night would have survived if he hadn't spent an hour waiting behind with the other chap. I'm not saying there was much alternative: but time is life in these places, isn't it?

[@leeyarbrough9636]

If climbers is able to walk an help others help them down the mountain , guys helping are putting themselves in harms ways an you do not have time to wait for someone to try help themselves while others wait , another depends on if they are hurt in a walking or breathing issue.

[@Beelzebubba2024]

One thing about everest is that the height of death zone. Just the right height where all the morality goes to waste. Nobody abondoned anyone in the base camp at 8000 mts.

[@johnoconnor6962]

Where are Beck Weathers, Mark Ingliss, Rob Paul and Scott Fischer?.....and a Sherpa?

[@AG-iu9lv]

Well. Beck Weathers and Scott Fischer couldn't possibly be on such a panel together.

[@flowermaze___]

Interesting conversation! Generally the over tourist-ification of landmarks, places and experiences is never a great thing.

[@frankobrien1371]

Difference between David Sharpe and Lincoln Hall is having people around you dedicated to helping each other. He seemed willing to take additional risk using a no frills trip and that required him more self reliant. Not the safest way to climb.

[@JustMe-nf1mf]

True however that does not excuse the attitude of only helping your own & the complete lack of humanity! If someone is dying I could not forgive myself if I was so selfish I refused to sit & touch that person as they left only to pursue a selfish goal of my own. Saying nothing could be done is a lie. Just being there would have been a massive thing :o(

[@frankobrien1371]

@@JustMe-nf1mf I get it but in high altitude mountaineering, there are many factors working against humane approach to someone having a problem over 26,000 ft. If you cannot move yourself, you will die there, just impossible for a rescue and everyone who climbs that high understands this. Most climbers who survive these high mountain climbs surround themselves with dedicated partners with much experience. Everest has become a “destination climb” for anyone in decent shape who has an extra $50k in their pockets. More and more people will die on that mountain till the greed is abated. Doubt that will happen anytime soon.

[@alisonwilson9749]

@@JustMe-nf1mf So you would be happy to sacrifice your own chance of survival to sit by someone who was bound to die? How would your family and friends feel about that?

[@nadagabri5783]

Great vid

[@kieranoconnor4334]

Thank you so much for this.......to quote someone else "This has inspired me NOT to climb mountains"!

[@gingermiller4046]

Continue to challenge nature and sooner or later they lose.

[@1tyorganist44]

That money Poor countries authorities charging for tourism should be used for rescueing.I guess,50% of that money goes to corrupt polititians and local governments and not to a poor and their needs..,Foreiners bring the problems( and money) to this area and it will be solved by the foreiners after all and not by locals for sure.

[@tombeilharz4880]

Thought, Should the expedition companies have an obligation to makes sure climbers have put in the work! You don't send a high school football player to the NFL! Should a person have to climb one mountain before they go onto the next?

[@markprange4386]

Someone might save you, but don't expect it.

[@ohoto3896]

that dude hacking up a lung in the audience needs to show some respect and gtfo of there jesus h christ

[@jedwardswalker]

humans have been in space and to the bottom of the ocean....

[@markmnorcal]

We're dead if we're not climbing.

[@dianamincher6479]

This is the lowdown!

[@nadagabri5783]

The women’s question is asked in a way 2 produce guilt. 🙄. what a …. Love his reply .

[@Mila_Brearey]

To all the arrogant know-it-alls: If you knew even the bare basics about high-altitude climbing and what is actually happening to your body, you would refrain from commenting. Also, the north side's Second Step and the summit ridge knife's edge is something you should learn about mainly from climber's videos. It's also important to watch an entire climb in order to understand that these are men who run 10K daily and climb regularly before joining an expedition to the Himalayas. Most work several jobs, before they can afford the equipment, travel costs, paying the sherpas, etc.

[@dianebays5484]

Couldn't some sherpas have helped David sharp, by attaching him to ropes, and more or less pulling it sliding him down? No, I'm no climber, so I'm a bit ignorant to it. Just very curious.

[@rogerpattube]

Have you found the answer to your question yet.

[@InvertedFreeSolo]

So there's "fixed" (I use that term loosely) ladders that need to be crossed/climbed in order to make your way up Everest. It would be tremendously difficult, if not impossible to get him down the ones the require you to blindly step off a ledge onto a ladder rung. In fact a lot of the "traffic jams" are caused by inexperienced climbers who freeze when it comes to these moves that must be made to descend the mountain. In the event someone needed rescue and could not move under their own power, you would need some sort of really stable, fixed rope and pulley system to get them down, and even then I'm not sure it could work from a logistical standpoint.

[@dianebays5484]

@@InvertedFreeSolo thank you for explaining that!

[@dianebays5484]

@@rogerpattube just now, thank you!

[@nehemydavis461]

It is possible for rescuer team(that climb the mountain for rescue, usually sherpas), but still a very difficult task. I don't really remember the position of david sharp, but it's hard to go through the three step. "Pulling him down" or "tie him and slide him". Looks easy, but the nature is too harsh men. They need to give him oxygen which if they give their own oxygen could be deadly to the rescuer. So, for normal climber/sherpas, with no/little experience of rescue, with no special equipment, it is almost impossible. Even special rescue team are facing high risk.

[@Dee-nonamnamrson8718]

Why is it anybodies business if I want to risk my life on a mountain? Im not risking your life on a mountain. Just don't expect someone to save you, and pay a fee upfront to remove your trash from the mountain if you drop dead.

[@AG-iu9lv]

You're going to hump your own food & gear up & down without Sherpas, then?

[@russelldevaney7001]

If you are a true climber, meaning someone not paying a true climber ti get to a summit, yes you have the responsibility to help others in trouble. If you are a client, you almost certainly have no ability to help anyone, much less yourself, if things go bad. If a client gets into trouble, no one outside of their own team has any responsibility to help them. No one should feel an obligation to save someone who should never have been on the mountain in the first place if they have no connection with them. Money can buy the opportunity for a high altitude summit, it cannot guarantee success or safety. Clients need to understand that completely.

[@russelldevaney7001]

@@earthlingandextra No. In those circumstances, there are those with the ability to help and those without.

[@kd505-s1y]

I am pretty sure MOST REASONABLE, non retarded human beings understand that the money you paid to make the effort to climb doesn’t give you protection and or a free summit pass. And quite honestly, if i am barely able to hold onto my own life, do not judge me for not being able to help others…I’m not DYING for a stranger. Too many others that rely on me

[@AG-iu9lv]

You have no obligation to risk your own safety in order to help others at sea level, much less in the death zone. If you do, in fact, attempt to render aid and in the process become in need of assistance yourself, you've made the situation exponentially worse, especially at high altitude. You've nearly guaranteed the loss of yourself, the person you tried to rescue, and anyone else who attempts to rescue you and/or the original person in distress.

[@russelldevaney7001]

@@AG-iu9lv Of course. However, I have climbed for many years, and twice ended up helping strangers. I never needed such help myself, fortunately, but I would certainly hope that it would be there if I did. And absolutely it was completely understood that you did whatever possible to help your partner. Everest is different, of course, yet many tines in +8000 meter peaks, people have risked their lives to help partners in trouble. It is assumed you will do that. Guided clients are an entirely different thing, they will help no one because they can't even help themselves. They are clients, not climbers.

[@lydiaschildwacht]

Cd

[@vangroover1903]

People forget that a problem at those altitudes is a bit like survival strategies at a school shooting: the lives you don't save might just be the ones that save yours.

[@korosulkalamyr6081]

The real question isn't whether or not Brice tried to help Sharp, he clearly did, it's about when did Brice actually find out Sharp was in trouble? It seems like for whatever reason, word about Sharp's struggle wasn't reported down until after Brice's guides and clients had reached the top (or close to it) - after they would've passed Sharp. Shouldn't Mark Woodward or Sean Hudson have radioed down right when their teams came across Sharp at the rock cave just before the First Step? Perhaps they did, perhaps they didn't. Either way, an attempt to help Sharp should have happened right then. Woodward might have felt Sharp was beyond saving, but he never truly tried to know that for sure. In fairness, it isn't as though any of the other parties on the mountain stopped to help either.

[@toyslucas9237]

This is not a hard problem. Mount Everest is not the only dangerous place on earth. We have lifeguards, police, security guards, hospitals....all are part of society to save and protect people. If hundreds of people happily pay huge sums every season to climb the mountain then there's no reason that each climber can't pay a bit extra to be able to pay to hire 5 or 10 'support climbers' whose job it is to do one thing: be the lifeguards of the mountain. Frankly the fact of the matter is that climbers ARE indignant and uncaring when it comes to saving other climbers. This is not evidenced by climbers passing sick or dying climbers. It's demonstrated by the fact that for decades they have done nothing to raise money and make policy to staff a rescue team of climbers and sherpa's. Hands down if I came to a climber whose life I could save - I would sacrifice the summit and happily risk my own life. Why? There is NO excuse for not at least attempting to save a human beings life solely because someone won't get to stand on a summit. Personally I'm a bit disgusted that climbers value 15 minutes on a cold summit more than the chance to do something truly heroic and challenging....to save someone else's life.

[@AG-iu9lv]

Save a life, don't climb mountains.

[@cherrylow9818]

DONT CLIMB MOUNTAINS

[@DaleRFetz]

And, the Sherpas should not be scheping TVs, fancy foods, and heavy stuff for luxury. This ain't was Everest is....a party! It's so sober that it ought be treated as sacred as it is!!!!

[@bp2352]

David “not so” Sharpe

[@ericdavis3736]

I think if people want to climb the mountains should .there is more people dieing that's climbed before. These guys just don't like that new comers climb and make it to the top. Think these gus don't like the question on how they are leaving the mountian in a mess. The more people there the more trash gets left behind.if they were ask to clean the mountains they wouldn't even bother going.all for there egos. With out Sherpa you wouldn't even be on the mountians.To much ego hear.

[@gardengirl21]

Eric Davis spellcheck

[@incidentalist]

@@gardengirl21 RIGHT!? Tried reading it and barely made out the first "sentence"..... 🤣😂🤣

[@cherrylow9818]

They should take their crap with them. Why should the Sherpas do it?

[@playinragz]

First