Etruscan Hoplite vs. Greek Hoplite! The System Continues

[@BorninPurple]

You'll be happy to know the threshold for mastering hoplomachia wasn't very high, so you're likely doing better than people in the archaic and classical period!

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

@@BorninPurple I think that's definitely debatable as we don't have a lot of good data on that, but it certainly seems that at least the rank and file didn't have a high degree of training in most cases.

[@Panagiotis2123]

I do not think we can be certain about that. My objections are that although we know that in most cases hoplites where just citizens, we cannot deduce only from that whether they had training or not. I mean lack of records about training does not mean that they did not train. Another thing is that since war was commonplace back then I would expect that a good portion of them to have actual combat experience. I agree that as it has already been said that most of them did not have a high degree of training but I am reluctant to say that they had no combat skills/experience at all.

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

@Panagiotis2123 agreed. I don't think we have enough information to know. Certainly some people trained in Hoplomachia, at least if you take Plato's writings as somewhat accurate. Martial dance is also mentioned as a method of training by several authors.

[@BorninPurple]

@@Panagiotis2123 Most historical sources talking about warfare in the archaic and classical period emphasise valour and bravery over skill as a criteria, because it simply wasn't possible for farmers to have the necessary training and experience to fight effectively as soldiers

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

@BorninPurple it's pretty clear from several authors that athletics and martial dance were considered training, however, and this is part of why my interpretation for a skilled duelist is the way it is.

[@gozer87]

Every time I see one of your hoplite videos, it rekindled my desire for a Hellenic kit.

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

@gozer87 glad to hear it! Depending on where you're located I know some reenactment folks but also some people who are more combat based around us.

[@gozer87]

@corrugatedcavalier5266 I'm in the Seattle area.

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

@gozer87 yeah opposite end of the country from us haha. I'm sure there are some appropriate reenactment people around though

[@clementfleury1913]

That's cool! Very nice gear and shield also.

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

@@clementfleury1913 thank you! Glad that you enjoyed it.

[@HansWurst1569]

it always makes me smile when Americans care a lot about European history. Cool!

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

@HansWurst1569 I'm interested in all history to be honest! But yes, many of us enjoy antiquity.

[@HansWurst1569]

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 I mean dressing up in armor and doing sparring in it is going the extra mile. I love that!

[@gage9504]

Awesome duel. Off topic question, where did you get your bascinet helmets you wear in your other videos? Looking at getting into harness fencing and I want a good houndskull bascinet.

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

Thank you! That one is from Tabor Armory. Helmets are one of the trickiest part

[@chrisbolland5634]

Did you see Lindybeige's video on spear fighting? Why are you doing overarm, don't you have way more control and power with an under grip?

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

@chrisbolland5634 nope. Overarm takes a bit of getting used to but has a lot of benefits once one gets used to it. In fact, there is even a study on shield penetration showing that overhand/overarm strikes have significantly more power. Lindy gets quite a bit wrong in that video. Thank you for asking, though!

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

@@chrisbolland5634 I also made a video on the topic kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXaYeJaujqd5hqcsi=g7ccXN60sTkysxmr

[@chrisbolland5634]

@corrugatedcavalier5266 neat! The more you know!

[@hjorturerlend]

Beyond what Corrugated already said, overarm also allows you to do very powerful slide thrusts and the threat of throwing the spear is always there. Also regarding control, a one handed spear has almost no leverage regardless of how you hold it - you *have* to defend with the shield. so it's a bit of a of a "2 times 0 is still 0" situation.

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

@hjorturerlend I agree, and in some of our other videos we throw the spear but here we don't have any sidearm. You can, however, parry and pressure from the overhand grip by turning the point to the ground as I do quite a few times in this video. You just need to be on a stronger part of the spear (mostly meaning closer to your hand) than the other person .