EU Reality Check - A discussion

[@8563robbie]

This should be broadcast on all mainstream tv channels at prime time.

[@jamiewilliams685]

The Bias on display is cataclysmic.

[@marisastefani985]

The true is : people make EU guilt for everything, people say things without know nothing about the past economy, please learn more about.

[@Kalydosos]

@@jamiewilliams685 I don't know what you're watching what I'm watching is a discussion about the EU where the compare made it more than clear the position of the panel perhaps you should visit a British Empire KZbin video.

[@jamiewilliams685]

@@Kalydosos How pathetically predictable. The irony is cataclysmic when one considers the EUs expansionist nature.

[@Kalydosos]

@@jamiewilliams685 So now your bollocks has been exposed, you move from bias? To expansionism not very clever mate! However, you not liking the EU is fine with me still doesn't change the fact that we were all told at the beginning, this was not going to be a balanced discussion. I suggest you follow my previous advice!

[@Skerdy]

I am stopping this at the very beginning to give my thoughts unbaised. I am pro-EU, and I consider myself an *European* Italian. I need clarity from the UK, I need to know the UK is done with the shenanigans... lacking that, and I don't really know *how* you can assure me about that at this point, then I *need* the UK *OUT* of the EU before the elections of the Europarliament in May. It's *not* about punishment, it's about what is good for the future of the Union. Now let's hear what these people have to say.

[@Kalydosos]

Great discussion about the EU and UK I'm making lots of notes.

[@celticlofts]

If the Labour and conservative parties want to leave the EU then countries like Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should have the opportunity to either leave with England or vote for independence and then join the EU. What's happening now is England dragging the rest of the UK (except Wales) out of the EU against their will.

[@thomasoehrling]

Being part of the Euro should not be described as a mistake!

[@jamiewilliams685]

So why is it being propped up by yet more quantitive easing by the EMF ? Deutsche bank is in dire straits, the German economy is stalling as is the French. The Italian banks are in crisis. The Euro has been an unmitigated disaster for Southern Europe.

[@remcovanek2]

Jamie Williams yeah just look how the pound gained and the euro lost ... oh wait.

[@jamiewilliams685]

@@remcovanek2 Only it's not. You do understand fiscal forecasting dont you ?

[@johnmchugh8860]

Read Jamie Williams reply again and again. This is reality. The Euro has been a complete disaster. The euro should have been named the EuroMark. It has benefitted Germany and Germany alone.

[@johnmchugh8860]

The euro has been artificially upheld due to its huge QE programme. Do you not understand economics?The Eu once had 36% share of world gdp. Anatole Kaletsky was right on this. It served Uk well. Unfortunately what he conveniently failed to mention is that this figure has reduced to 15% today. It is widely expected to drop to 10% by 2025. Yes, 10% world share of GDP for the whole of Europe. Which sane person would want to attach the UK economy to a failing diminishing Eu market when we can go global and reach out for the 90% global business outside the Eu and create bi-lateral trade deals to suit UK requirements rather than the Eu27. We need to start looking after ourselves. Sorry but Kaletsky is a fully paid up Eu stooge.

[@thephilosopherofculture4559]

Think for a second about what is actually said here "Europe needs to be fixed by us." Which means that the English consider their system superior to anything in Europe.

[@NickMusselle]

This should be promuglated as a common sense arguement of what brexit means.

[@guitarschoolnorthampton1870]

I genuinely feel pity for those who passionately wish to remain in the EU whilst approaching March 29th. It’s a bit like observing the bereaved struggling with the death of a loved one whilst approaching the day of the funeral and refusing to accept the reality that is fast approaching whilst losing their heads and breaking down into fits of laying blame on everyone, pointing their finger and over analysing instead of accepting that it just is what it is, and that there is no changing what has happened. Soon or later, these individuals have to accept that we all have to move on and that it’s only negative if you allow it to be!

[@kevinwillis6707]

and hows it looking now? those sunlit uplands look a bit shit to me....

[@miroslawturski]

Very good discussions. Thank you very much. Just a few thoghts that came to my mind. As a conservative person (do not confuse with Tory supporter) and a remainer, I am starting to understand why so many people feel so misrepresented by the elites which I reckon is one of the reasons for Brexit vote. Just look at this panel full of liberals. Don't get me wrong, there is important place for liberal representation, in my opinion, but we just lost the correct balance. Where are the conservative views? Part of the problem is that you are either a good progressive liberal or evil far right extremist. That's not only wrong but so very far from reality. Until the, so called, liberal elites realise that they don't really represent all people and don't have a monopoly for being right, we will keep having 'Brexits' all the time.

[@johnmchugh8860]

Correct Miroslaw. Quite frankly I could not believe what I was watching then. It was an echo chamber of similar views and back slapping. A complete propaganda program full of lies with nobody to tell them they are wrong.Quite frankly it was desperate stuff by the liberal elite

[@miroslawturski]

@timmy toolbagzHi Timmy. Do you realy believe the EU is the actual reason for your hardship? Do you believe leaving the block will improve your life? Personally, I haven"t heard any convincing argument for that. Quite contrary, all the signs show that especially hard Brexit would be catastrophic for working people. I reckon you are thinking 'things are so bad they can't possibly go worse'. I am affraid they can. In fact they can go MUCH worse.

[@miroslawturski]

@timmy toolbagz OK, let me quickly address those 6 points. Just briefly as they have been heavily discussed already. Housing crisis Yeah, it's undeniable. It is supply and demand problem, I agree. But blaming it solely on immigration is to much of simplification. Just consider how many empty properties is there kept as foreign investment. The fact that British government is happy to take dirty money has little to do with the EU. Also, you can look at it from the other side. Maybe the problem is not the number of people but lack of the houses. It is well known fact that consecutive governments failed to implement any sensible plan to deal with that. Refugee crisis To say that it has been mishandled by the EU (Germany is mostly to blame) is an understatement. It is probably the biggest problem of the EU now. But so far the UK have hardly taken any refugees. When, or rather if, those in Europe get the passports they will be subject to the same rules as other EU citizens. Despite of some politicians claim, we have full power to manage the right to stay for EU citizens. The government don't enforce it. Hardly EU fault... Access to services Yes, it is a problem in some places. But again, blaming it only on immigrants does not seem right or fair. What about proper management? Whole EU enjoys freedom of movement and you don't see the same issues everywhere. Other countries can manage it fine, so why the UK cannot? Overpopulation Well, it is debatable at best. Fertility rate in the UK is ~1.8 births per woman. Just to sustain the population in the country you need anything above 2.1. There are plethora of demographic problems we are facing like the population getting older. I don't see how Brexit would help with any of that. The EU is power without accountability That's simply not true. The EU institutions ARE democratic. You have EU parliament and EU Council two basic democratic entities. And then EU Commission which is just civil service. In what you wrote I sense a sentiment that we can't get what WE WANT. That's not democracy, but dictatorship. Democracy is sharing power and responsibility with others to reach a compromise for common benefit. In the EU the others are 27 member countries. As a matter of fact Britain have had HUGE influence in the EU and have been fundamental to it. Having our say in the biggest trading block in the world is just invaluable. Turkey I can't believe you brought it up. Are you Nigel's fan by any chance? :-] There is no way for Turkey to become EU member considering its current geopolitical situation. Besides, accession of a new country must be agreed unanimously. Britain could always veto such thing. With Brexit we obviously loose any influence... It seems apparent that your main objection to the EU is freedom of movement. Mind that it works both ways. Not only it gives Europeans access to the UK, but also Britons freedom to live and work in other countries. I appreciate it doesn't apply to most people, but there are a lot of our citizens living in the EU whose lives can be ruined by Brexit. Besides, freedom of movement is not unrestricted. It was just UK's government that allowed uncontrolled flow of people. Other countries like Germany or France somehow managed it better when eastern European countries joined. Summing up, the problems you described are IMHO a result of an incompetence of the governments, which were very happy to use the EU as easy scapegoat. The problem is that after Brexit those problems will not disappear and the politicians will not become more competent. Yet the amount of harm we put on ourselves will be incredible. God help us.

[@miroslawturski]

@timmy toolbagz Yeah. So are you saying we should brexit to have fewer immigrants to have more houses available to us? I don't believe that's what will happen. We will brexit and much fewer people from the EU will come (the numbers have already plummeted), however the overall immigration will not be lower and highly likely higher (lookup the current numbers of non-eu immigration which go up). As the result we'll have fewer well qualifief, hard-working immigrants. No way it will bring us more houses. Who will build them? People from the third world who don't have qualifications? No brother, I don't see how Brexit can help.

[@miroslawturski]

@timmy toolbagz I literally addressed all the six points you provided. Neverming. Good luck to you :-)

[@silberlinie]

The Brexit controversy is settled. Theresa May’s Brexit speech in Belfast Northern Ireland on 5.Feb.2019 was not openly clear, but leaves no doubt. It is clearly indicated by her wording. Brexit will happen, no new Irish boarder. The price the UK is willing to pay, is Northern Ireland.

[@LabRat6619]

Adding so many poor countries to EU trading bloc has been disastrous for the common man. The industrialists love a honeypot of cheap labour flooding into the country to turn the cogs in their factories. But meanwhile our little British men are made unemployed or displaced. On an EU level an open market to Bulgaria, Latvia or Romania is useless for finding work. It is a one way street and I can see why people voted. But on balance it's still better inside the group.

[@Prometheus4096]

UK you have overstayed your welcome in the EU. You were only part of it for the money, but even that wasn't enough. Please leave!

[@claudiavivarelli7571]

Willingly

[@claudiavivarelli7571]

Because you think Junker, Tusk, Merkel, Macron and co are in it out of the kindness of their sweet little hearts.. that’s 😂

[@Prometheus4096]

@@claudiavivarelli7571 I trust them more than Boris Johnson. Also, we have more checks and balances in both the EU and the western countries than the UK has. The UK itself is shattering, it has been mismanaged since the financial crisis with absurd austerity and dismantlement of civil society, and now it has not been managed since the referendum because Brexit has dominated and paralyses everything. The UK is literally a failed state!

[@claudiavivarelli7571]

Alcathous well you’re entitled to your opinion.. just as I’m entitled to mine... I’ve seen how Italy (where I live) has been decimated by being part of the EU .. a disaster.. funny how everyone wants to live in the UK though... despite it being such a failed nation.. I wonder where you’re going to get the 9% from without us .. mmmmmm......🤔

[@Prometheus4096]

@@claudiavivarelli7571 Well, I am convinced by the argument on Mark Blyth on Italy. But Italy is a troubled country in it's own right. Yes, Italy has had some damage from Germany monopolizing the eurozone policy, which is different form being part of the EU. Which is different from the huge benefits the UK has had from the EU.

[@bertnijhof5413]

A pity the British citizen did not profit from the growth in GDP. As a pure neo-liberal, class society all gains went to the masters.

[@kossfan]

So let me get this right, from 1993 Britain had the strongest economy, not only in Europe but of all the G7 countries, because it detached itself from Europe’s biggest single mistake, which was the European Exchange Rate Mechanism. And this pearl of wisdom is from a remoaner.

[@raitisfreimanis]

Isn't it a little too late for a referendum?

[@alangaillard2988]

No balance issues here.

[@TremereTT]

UKIP is not on the fringes... UKIP wants out of the EU, AFD want's out of the EURO! A thing a guy on the panel praised as unique advantage for UK.

[@AnaCostaPatatenra]

Why organise such an interesting panel and then not have enough time assigned to discuss the issues raised? Such a waste of resources... It's just frustrating

[@propanbutan4634]

What do we want? Brexit! When do we want it? Now! Wto rules now! No I'm joking BREXIT is pure madness

[@jintarokensei3308]

Equal representation. Because your gender is more important than your competence.

[@Skerdy]

Jesus, what is Sir Davos doing here?!?!

[@richardphoenix3367]

Most of these commentators are jaundiced in their view

[@VincentRE79]

@Britfire Rise Yes would not be surprised if there was some EU funding of this forum.

[@mrbearbear83]

@@VincentRE79 not surprising, they fund a metric ton of other things in the uk lol

[@NickMusselle]

I agree with 8563robbie

[@thephilosopherofculture4559]

(18 min. in) Why people are dissatisfied with the political systems and are voting for radical parties? Because people feel not represented. It's as simple as that. One always see the same heads in government and parliament. E.g. in France there is huge disappointment with Macron who won by a landslide. They thought they had chosen a new face with fresh ideas who would rid the country of the corrupt fossilised elite. But he turned out to be just like all the others, an orthodox politician who works for that tiny elite. People do not feel represented. Period. Example, the regular elite has been and is totally disinterested in climate change and does NOTHING against it. In my country, the prime minister talks about it and pretends to do his utmost in order to win votes but in reality he has created laws that made green energy initiatives extremely difficult and expensive to do. His duplicity earned him the candidacy for becoming the new European president. Now, how do you think that people in my country look upon this? Trust in politics is almost zero.

[@bicyclemanNL]

Two party system, allowed to lie/not liable for misspending (boris johnson's missing bridge) - Goverments are not properly accountable - Blair for going to war on Iraq with Bush''s so called proof

[@thysbasson1786]

EU Remainer Nonsense - A lovesong to the Superstate

[@toripurgers9769]

18:30 maybe because those systems have mainly worked for the wealthy?

[@bicyclemanNL]

Well, the wealthy are the ones that invest, we will get the odd rags to riches story and some mad scientist discoveries but they won't be huge impacts over decades. Wealthy can move money more easily in a crisis and the poor get homes repossesed

[@marconatrix]

If, as the panel members suggest, the UK did really well out of EU membership, both financially and in terms of getting our way and in fact having a good bit of control, often being a guiding innovative force, given that all of this is true, why then did we never seem to hear very much about it? After all it could be 'spun' as the UK being an important leading member. But what we got instead was the endless tale of how we were supposedly being ripped off and manipulated by all those horrid continentals. Who gained from this constant misrepresentation? Or was it simply a result of existing stereotypes and so on?

[@Beliefish]

I think the problem is your(=UK) deep lack of understanding of EU. This is shown brilliantly at the end of the video when a man asks question about EU army. From EU stand point of view the situation is clear - as long as UK was a part of EU you will veto any sort of EU army, so we never even discust it. Now that you are leaving and you can not bloc formation of EU army we are slowingly establishing an EU army. This was the POWER you had, but never realised it... the same is true for the service sector that you were creating by vetoing anything that was not good for you. Now that you are leaving we will be able to to rip your hearts out and shove it up your arss ;) ps: sorry for my bad english, it is not my first language

[@JoeMarine]

The press prefer sensational news about " bendy bananas" rather than real stories. Over the last 2 years I have researched deeply and all that has been said is true. London is the richest city in Northern Europe and simultaneously the poorest cities as well. This is essentially down to poor internal distribution of wealth. Also look at the investment the EU has made in Liverpool as an example, transformed it into a tourist and cultural hub. I think all we need to do is research on our own as well. It's our country so we must invest a bit of time in understanding the politics.

[@dmcg6074]

The failure of and bias of the british press, pure and simple.

[@anthonyburke3428]

A lot of the blame IMO is down to the British government! The EU got blamed for everything that was unpopular! The British government would go to Brussels and vote in favor of xyz and then go back and blame the EU for forcing them to do it! The British government was not alone in this, but thankfully it seems to be stopping!

[@claudeghendrih762]

marconatrix Robbing people blind , basic picpocketing technique , you need the actual pickpocket generally in the form of a tory MP then a distractor generally in the form of popular press owned by a bunch of billionaires a patsy in the form of the EU and an apathetic gullible and submissive crowd .

[@raphaelnikolaus0486]

Is it only me or is this moderator not good at her job?

[@smi1401]

What a stupid debate,this people have to much free time

[@lhaviland8602]

Everyone except the bald dude's takes have aged like spoiled ham lol.

[@stevelewis2869]

Load of TNUCs

[@rangjungyeshe]

At least they're not starp diputs like you, mate.

[@maay5637]

ASEAN is free movement on goods n investments not free move on people. Good example.

[@thephilosopherofculture4559]

The Europeans cannot believe the arrogance and feeling of superiority that runs in the blood of the real English. And English person cannot accept sense from a Continental. That's all. here is a lot going on that neither the English nor the Continentals understand. Insiders say 'Good riddance' about Brexit but this is never heard publicly. Britain always asked for special treatment, for being allowed to be the odd one out. As a matter of fact, England was never really in the EU, on paper, yes, but never in their minds. Things are different with the Scottish and Irish. They like the EU. Like all European nations, they understand what it means to be dominated by another people. Only the English do not know how that feels. thephilosopherofculture.blogspot.com/search/label/Brexit%20and%20Brexiting

[@nich0030]

Stupidest thing i have ever heard, France have never been "Dominated by another people", i'm talking about annexation here not Occupation neither has Denmark, probably other countries as well.

[@thephilosopherofculture4559]

@@nich0030 If I remember well, France has been dominated by the Nazi's between 1940 and 1944. Denmark between 1940 and 1945.

[@nich0030]

@@thephilosopherofculture4559 apparently you don't understand the differences between Occupation and annexation. Being dominated would be Annexation. Denmark have never been Annexed and neither has France.

[@thephilosopherofculture4559]

@@nich0030 All right, but that is besides the point. If Germany would not have invaded Russia, the situation could and probably would have ended differently and then they would have been annexed. England has fought the Scots for centuries before annexing it. The point is that there is a strong undercurrent in English veins that does not exist elsewhere. And of course there is something to say for it for they have proven to be superior. With their brilliant educational system and military might and strong cultural values in the 19th century the English conquered the world, not the British but the English. However, those days are gone but cultures tend to change only over centuries not decades. When you listen to the arguments in Westminster and on the streets, much of it is about being able to determine one's own course, which sounds fine but my point is that this is a cultural thing. Any bloody continental wants that, too, but knows it is unrealistic. Societies have become interwoven with one another, if not politically, that remains a moot point which you understand better than anyone, but economically and militarily for sure including the British societies (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland). Still, hailing back to the good old days, you hear the hard-line Brexiteers say that "Britain" (they mean England) could go at it alone and even better so. It is this fundamental, this feeling of English superiority that is in the DNA of the English, especially the Eton-Oxford line but it is everywhere, the fisherman, the baker, the busdriver, the banker, the CEO of British Airways, everywhere. Only the young people have lost this sense, I think, but then again I have not heard many young people. The voices in the news are all people over 40 or 50. How old are you? Could you give a critique on these blog posts? thephilosopherofculture.blogspot.com/search/label/On%20being%20English

[@nich0030]

@@thephilosopherofculture4559 I think that you hit the issue right on the head there, its "English" exceptionalism, the idea that they are great solely because they are English. now i think that it isn't really unique to England, i know that even people in Denmark have a bit of that attitude. the thing is while i think that my country of Denmark is great and wonderful i also think that being in the EU has made us even better. and that's the difference i guess. i read you blog and i really enjoyed the read, i didn't agree with all of it but it was well formulated and reasoned. btw i'm 27.

[@nathandavies9861]

When you type echo chamber into a search engine , this video comes up as 'most relevant'

[@jimdandy2024]

Nice comment. A bunch of back slappers.

[@korax1984]

Why is there no one on the panel that are pro-brexit? completely one sided "debate"

[@aacmove]

What on earth would they have to say that is not a lie or platitude? Or wishful thinking.

[@korax1984]

@@aacmove how about anything honest, and it is called a discussion, kind of strange when it s this onesided

[@aacmove]

@@korax1984900 billion move to Europe is honest. Brexiters like to say "we are prepared for hardship as long as we get back control", not so much!

[@gary4034]

as the yellow jackets in France if they view the EU in a positive light?

[@albertlabos8400]

There is a huge elephant in the room they all ignore, shameful.

[@dickmartino9933]

Why would the blameless EU punish it's greatest friend. Oh, reality check.

[@nicholaswoolfenden5254]

I'll ask the obvious then. After May and Merkel need we be at all enthusiastic about more women in politics? I'll be scorned. Fine. But both are as disastrous as each other and Macron. So forget dumb quotas eh?

[@transient_]

Isn't it a bit disingenuous to say those two women, individuals, are representative of all women?

[@TVeldhorst]

So many male politicians have made a mess of things throughout history as well. Lets dismiss all males too then... Or isnt that what you meant? You see, this kind of thinking is useless and quite silly.

[@archieblair8728]

Ah. No. The EU hasn't covered itself in glory.

[@peterroberts5565]

Get out means get out.

[@aj_wuwei]

I like the sophistry being the theme. When you so much want to be the part of the union and see how some countries are treated for their powerless situation, it tells you a different story. It is sad to see that you are so pessimistic about your country and have become dependent on a compromised EU. And that panel..ufff!!! so one sided.

[@nicholaswoolfenden5254]

If only Brexit mob was sophisticated enough for a rational discussion. All I hear is ranting retards. Because Brexit is cooked. Good?!

[@johnmchugh8860]

You call that rational discussion? It was an echo chamber of the worse kind.

[@VaucluseVanguard]

"Think anew, act anew" - more like - "Think the same, act the same". I would not take the views of the economist too seriously. They are so bad at predicting the future as to make them no better than the bloke down the pub. They are pretty good 3-12 months ahead, but no more. The assertion that Britain was "the sick man of Europe" in 1973, which it was, and came good because we joined the EEC/EC/EU is nonsense. We were at rock bottom around 1979 to 1981. It was Thatcherism and the defeat of people like a young Corbyn in Militant and the Scargill unions that turned the UK economy around. I was not a Thatcher fan and never voted Conservative and was even a trade union rep in the same union Corbyn had been an official of. But I can recognise the relative importance of the historical factors. Joining the EU was a minor factor.

[@bicyclemanNL]

Scargil was defeated during Thatcher years as I recall Micael Gove said, we have had enough of experts - so who do we turn to - the bloke down the pub.. NO! Experts do get some things wrong, but you don't hear when it goes right - bit like the bank not telling you you are in credit, but you know the moemnt you are over your credit limit. Experts generally have their finger on the pulse. The LSE is a pretty decent source of information.

[@janelm9813]

They will never let us leave th EU :( what is better , being poor but free or richer and a slave? I prefer freedom, you call them hard right but it is not about race, it is about culture,

[@returingfavour]

Antole, this is the most ridiculous statement on the UK economic performance between 1973 and 2017... To give credit to the membership of the Common Market and not to even mention North Sea oil or Thatcher and economic reforms is plain dishonesty. How was UK economy doing 5 years after joining the single market? Winter of Discontent? It was the destruction of large nationalised enterprises and pro business policies between 1979 until 1990 that have set the UK economy on the right track.

[@dombizkit8410]

This seminar just proves how out of touch these politicians are with society . Why’s this happening with the increase of populism ... hmm why why why? How can this be? I suppose no one would have any idea living in West Kensington , and that’s the problem when it’s those people who “represent” us

[@LabRat6619]

I'm white middle aged with a balding head, living in the far north of England. I'm also a plumber. I voted remain because I did my homework during drinking time.

[@dombizkit8410]

Highlighted reply and concluded the wrong decision ....

[@claudiavivarelli7571]

TO THE FIVE PEOPLE ON THE PANEL..... THERE ARE TWO UNIVERSES OUT THERE.. ONE ON WHICH YOU AND THE LIKES OF YOU LIVE.. and another where the people who work at real jobs live.. over 17 million voted to leave the EU in the U.K., 20 million voted for Salvini in Italy.. ten million in Greece want to leave.. not to mention the yellow jackets in France.. and you sit there theorising about “democracy” and whether women will be voted in in the up and coming EU elections.. and whether you should put the 17 million from the U.K. on the EU’s NAUGHTY STEP......... please wake up and listen to yourselves....😱😱

[@claudiavivarelli7571]

ss well then .. we could add Poland, Spain , Austria, Portugal.. for starters.. I don’t think they’re too happy either.. but.. they can do what they want.. where this panel goes wrong is it self-righteously refuses to accept that the U.K. voted to leave in a once in a lifetime referendum.. in which the promise made by the then PM was to respect the wishes of the people.. (the bottom line of democracy is that if your side loses you have to accept the result). I would have liked it if the British had left without a deal the week after. I have nothing to do with Trump or Putin.. I suspect you’re a troll who gets paid per comment so If you want to have the last word you’re very welcome but I wont be wasting any more of my time in an aimless discourse with a person I know nothing about..

[@Alfadrottning86]

Um, i like the EU, i am not in the political class (well, i am not in the EU lol .. but i still like it) - the EU has been a steadfast fortress for PEACE by intertwining the economies of Europe to make war between the member states always a loss. And it worked .. today, the generation cannot imagine to go to war against another European country ... well, except the British that seem to enjoy the idea of going to war against Europe ... judjing by their jingoist rhetoric

[@jimdandy2024]

@@Alfadrottning86 Incorrect. It was the British that prevented all out intervention in Syria remember? The USA was ready to go and the EU was ready also. But the UK had an emergency parliamentary vote. The result of that halted the USA and also the EU. So much for British "jingoist rhetoric" as you claim. The EU has not kept the peace in Europe. The UN has kept the peace in Europe.

[@Alfadrottning86]

@@jimdandy2024 Hm .. no, it is not "incorrect" .. or rather .. only if you are incapable of other than black vs. white. The UN Security council (not the UN, mind) might contribute to the security of Europe ... too. But the actual mandate to prevent right wing fascism (like in Spain, Germany, Italy prior to ww2) is part of the EC/EU. The methods used are indeed economy. Similar to the nuclear agreement of mutual destruction to ensure peace ... the EU (metaphorically) uses economy. War between any memberstate will INEVITABLY lead to loosing for everyone - hence, the idea of going to war - which is to "win" - cannot occur. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4TIkpesjNihlc0 Here is a lecture about UK and Europe. If you are only interested in the part of identity and justification for the EU .. skip to the last part when he answers audience questions. Just cause the UK vetos intervention in Syria does not make it any more or less jingoist. Here we learned from the "british spirit" when the UK invaded us in world war 2, drove up our harbour and declared martial law and Iceland to be under Allied "protection" - pretty much like they did with other countries they "invaded during the imperialist times". A claim of exceptionalism and superiority ... without ever reflecting on it properly. So in the very BEST case .. you could say that the UN contributes to European peace .. but to say that the EU does not do it (and to be the MAIN force for European peace) is silly - you may want to study the charter of the EC/EU

[@jimdandy2024]

@@Alfadrottning86 Thank you for agreeing that the EU is not responsible for peace in Europe. To tell the truth the EU is the cause of many problems now with European countries swinging more to the hard left and right. During WW 2 Iceland was in a strategic position for Nazi Germany. It could have posed a threat to the UK. If the UK fell, that would mean game over for Europe. You may not like that fact as a weak nation. Sometimes decisions have to be made for the greater good. You fail to mention that we offered protection and you were free to go your own way after hostilities. How jingoistic we British are. Really? We have never posed a threat to Europe. We have only stepped in to protect Europe.

[@fenthedog]

Not all EU countries are happy. Hungary wants out, Norway wants out, The French will soon be out and the germans are sick and tired of their failed project

[@TheLastAngryMan01]

Dave Duvalier Norway isn’t in the EU, and the EU is actually rising in popularity in several member countries due to the mess that is Brexit.

[@fenthedog]

@@TheLastAngryMan01 Its not a mess mate, its called negotiation. We leave with no deal and we win! :)

[@TheLastAngryMan01]

Dave Duvalier The UK’s negotiating team must be led by Baldrick then, given that they’ve conceded on most of their stated red lines so far. What a cunning plan ;) Come to think of it, Rees Mogg etc. have already started to move some of their hedge funds to Dublin. What a resounding vote of confidence in Brexit Britain that is, eh?

[@edwardrussell7168]

But 52% people have voted for Brexit... 48% people have to accept it ... majority is right even if the facts are for a poorer economy?? This is called democracy at its best...

[@imedi]

or the very reason the germans dont have referendums......the masses never have enough information to make these decisions and there is always the danger of them being manipulated by the media and im saying both sides of the media... This will not end well can only hope the damage will not be too great

[@imedi]

@Anglo McWhitey why does it have to be a whine the danger to democracy is when people are shouted down because they disagree with the result... people who voted hitler and mussolini did the same .... At any rate this is a referendum and not an election ... point is brexit will be bad nit just for the uk but if the eu does get destroyed then western europen power is gone

[@edwardrussell7168]

@Anglo McWhitey tnx.. My comment is about the problem of democracy to make decisions! It should be about the values not what the majority says... majority follows their desires not values. Brexit is a massive decision and see how the hypocrisy of people at the top is getting blatantly exposed in front of the world. Is this the way humans should live their life???

[@petegiant]

I would also say it is delusional to think overturning Brexit would not be disastrous to our economy and whole parliamentary system.

[@slapdashdumper]

sorry , this "debate" is a total pro EU advert.........I nearly threw up - twice

[@CustardCream14]

Smug remainers who think they know everything as usual

[@mikelamatria3610]

Brexiter afraid of reality and with an inferiority complex as always.

[@jimdandy2024]

@ss I require you to explain why you believe HT to be inferior and why you believe HT knows nothing. Your comment is meaningless and rather uneducated.

[@jimdandy2024]

@ss I responded with a question. You have failed to answer it.

[@petercolledge2236]

Remainers have nothing to be smug about. We failed on this major issue and we have to face up to that failure. We may think you mistaken but you won the vote.

[@harryking3246]

YOUR PANEL IS A JOKE!!!

[@johnneale864]

This is an unbiased discussion not

[@freakygoblin3068]

There's a thing about being unbiased. It often means you are not dealing with facts. You cannot say black is white just to be unbiased when looking if black is black.

[@johnneale864]

Freaky Goblin I'm talking about the whole panel are remoaners so they all agree with each other's opinion where is the alternative view. So it's a useless platform

[@freakygoblin3068]

@@johnneale864 You mean you want people who lie simply to provide "balance". Personally when looking for information I prefer the truth.That's the problem with sticking with truth and facts. It generally is biased. Unicorns do not exist, it doesn't matter how many people are added to a panel stating they do.

[@johnneale864]

Freaky Goblin just because other people have vision and desire to make a new plan and grow in another direction doesn't mean they are telling lies your clearly an individual who is led by the nose and has blinkers on permanently

[@freakygoblin3068]

@@johnneale864 Well those supporting leaving have had over 2 years to show advantages of leaving and have so far failed to come up with any based in reality. We've had the lies "the EU's punishing us" when the reality is the opposite. It's all about scapegoating the EU and blaming others. "led by the nose and has blinkers on" is a funny phrase pushed by someone who doesn't want the truth. Truth/facts confirmed from multiple sources, not just this one.