(EU4) The Top Ten Overpowered Starts!

[@lordpinochetuttp3819]

Before I watch this video : 10. The Ottomans 9. The Ottoman Empire 8. It was a tough choice, but Ottomans have taken the cake 7. I was thinking the Ottomans 6. Possibly the Ottomans 5. The Ottomans 4. Poland 3. Just kidding, 4 was the Ottomans 2. So is 3. 1. Gee, I wonder who....

[@butteryspirit3336]

LordPinochetUTTP Castille (this is sarcasm)

[@erayt9721]

Lol x)

[@TheLibermania]

why tyrone Maybe to be some different.... Turkey

[@jangofett4547]

Fiji Island is definatly no.1 according to your list

[@girlgarde]

For me, I regard the Ottomans, Muscovy, Poland, France, Castille, the Ming and the Manchu states as the most player friendly nations in the game. Even if their paths to greatness are canon, it's still fun to play as them and crush everything in your path as you end up feeling like God.

[@GatasPolse]

I love how England is both in the most overpowered and the biggest underdogs list.

[@杨军-y9b]

GatasPolse England soldier is a joke.

[@starwars1022]

he he nah, i got a pu under spain, austria, and france as england. They can be really OP

[@Melodeath00]

The new English ideas are solid. 10% Inf CA and 10% Firedmg. Perfect ideas for late-game armies of pure Inf with full backlines of Art, for maximum Fire dmg. It's ofc not as great as nations like Prussia or Poland, but it's still stronger than the vast majority of tags in the game.

[@meandmetoo8436]

That's dumb, when you start with 20K+ you are not an underdog. The strongest underdogs are countries like Venice, Sweden, Tunis or Portugal.

[@AmariFukui]

This is bullshit what kind of top ten overpowered starts list doesn't include Ulm!?

[@jajo9548]

it's probably in the 0.5 spot

[@kingof_prussia]

Nah, its just so overpowered it didn't need mention...

[@rbarnes4076]

LOL.

[@stentbeefclench]

Barney Collington please me laddo ulm is nothing compared to the mighty knights of Rhodes

[@ViolentFEAR]

Born an raised in Ulm. Let me tell you that our rise is on the horizon!

[@GalAnonim321]

I would like to point out, that EU4 is historical grand strategy. Historical

[@Kilaprofi1998]

exactly .. they think this is league of legends or something ofc ottomans will always be stronger then everyone because they were the strongest back then too

[@anhk_yt]

nobody said they shouldn't be strong.

[@eminemishh]

Pimpeczek They need to balance the game but the Ottomans were ridiculously strong back then so they need to be powerful. Plus by mid game there is no strong nations left I want the lucky nations to be buffed.

[@ProtoForte]

The Ottomans lost a lot of battles too especially against Europeans. They only seemed strong because they used to only fight weaker nations in the middle east and north africa. In-game it's pretty apparent too. It's not hard for Poland to beat the Ottomans as that's historically acurate.

[@Kilaprofi1998]

yre lol sure.. ottomans sieged Vienna. And they only lost because austria asked for help and almost every empire came to help them l.also they only lost because of the Sultan in that time he did a fatal mistake. I had ottoman empire 1 year long in german lessons. Also what do you mean by they got beaten by europeans?? Google ottoman empire europe. they conquered whole balkan + many more in europe

[@armageddon3315]

Timurids overpowered? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! 2 events: "Disintegration of the Timurid Empire" and "Ismail's Resurrection of Persia." They make the comet sighted event seem manageable.

[@darkfireslide]

It's rough, and there are a lot of rebels to deal with, but it's still a pretty easy start compared to a lot of OPMs.

[@SoldusJK]

Not really. Disintegration of the Timurid Empire can be avoided by paying 2 years of income (and a crapton of inflation). It's manageable. The ressurrection of Persia only causes unrest for 5 years, so assuming you roll a good general and are prepared to fight the rebels, you're good to go. It happens only once, too. Assuming you keep some money to mercspam and use full cavalry, early game Timurids can easily get rid of the seppies and you're free soon after when the events stop popping up. Don't forget how ridiculously broken steppe hordes are in this patch, too.

[@Natedawg1998]

Russian Guy however, if you're good enough you can form the Mughals in the first 5-10 years which basically solves all your rebel issues and removes the negative timurid events

[@armageddon3315]

SoldusJK The Timurids make a lot of yearly income, but a lot of it is paid in fort maintenance and army maintenance so loan(s) will be taken after this event and +5 inflation is not something minor. 10 unrest for every Persian core which are almost if not all Shiite for 5 years is an almost guaranteed large rebellion.

[@LlameStarcraft]

+Russian Guy Actually Timurids have quite a shitty income, it can't make full states out most of its land. But there are ways around the events, like the Persian one. I think the strat is releasing Persia from tabarestan which means you wont get the unrest events IIRC. Oh and remove most of the forts for income!

[@TheSeventhChild]

Recently started an English game. Pope excommunicated France. I married Castille for an alliance and Trastamara died like 2 months later, putting them in PU under me. That's some OP start right there.

[@sullenskulls9709]

I am currently playing Kongo for the achievement run, and have a serious issue trying to get the Morocco area due to the most OP AI I have ever seen in a game. Portugal has colonized the Caribbean and pretty much all of S.America. Spain has Mexico, and England/France have most of N.America between them. This is pretty common obviously. The issue is..... Portugal is the Holy Roman Emperor, and has England, Spain & France as a PU under them. It's both ridiculous and awesome to see.

[@gekkenhuisje]

*Kneels before the king of Portugal* Mine Kaiser, Emperor, King of the combined nations of Portugal, Spain, France, Duke of the British Isles, Lord of Ulm, Imperator of America, Dictator Extraordinary.

[@dancorps1388]

Sullen Skulls I never thought about it, but Portugal can easily join the HRE diplomatically. they probably right on the edge of the is too big nation though, so taking the right Provence is important.

[@eeeertoo2597]

TheSeventhChild I started an england run First 10 years annex 2 provinces from france and ally an aragon that has a pu over castile In 1450

[@mechman500]

I had an England game in 1.17 which I did pretty good in. I got Portugal in a pu and me and him pretty much control all of the new world except for a part of Canada and the eastern part of North America. My problem with England runs though is that if you take down France then Spain will also take over France and eventually become your enemy. So it ends up becoming Great Britain and Spain both with huge alliances fighting like every 20-30 years. With neither gaining much.

[@archangel1178]

To be honest, the Ottomans aren't overpowered, the game is accurately reflecting the power of the Ottoman Empire at its height. Keep in mind, that from its inception in 1298, the Ottoman Empire wouldn't be defeated in Europe until 1699. That's not to say they didn't suffer tactical defeats, they did, most famously at Lepanto in 1580. But the thing is, even Lepanto was less a major defeat and more a minor setback for them. After all, the Ottomans succeeded in taking Cyprus anyway and they were able to quickly recoup the losses to their Navy, rebuilding the ships they had lost and inflicting further defeats on the Venetians and Genoans. It took the combined might of Venice, Poland-Lithuania, Austria, Hungary, and the Holy Roman Empire to turn back the Ottomans and only after their military and administration had fallen into decay and disorder after years of infighting, rendering their military might a fraction of its full strength. If the Ottomans are presented as an unstoppable juggernaut, it's because they were.

[@crandee1777]

My first country was Byzantium. It went horribly wrong.

[@tyran5550]

Mine was ottomans

[@heindrich1988]

Mostly agree with your list, but in 1.19 Ming is not more op than the Ottomans. The Celestial Empire local autonomy floor doesn't just halve your economy, it's worse than that for your disposable income because you have to pay 100% of costs despite gaining only 50% of income from everything. For example state maintenance, forts, army maintenance etc... Ming is easy mode because of weak neighbours, but once I dealt with my initial challenges as England or the Ottomans, they are much stronger than Ming. However... the 50% autonomy floor will be removed in the Mandate of Heaven DLC, and the new Empire of China mechanics adds more buffs for Ming, so it may very well be the case that Ming will be no1 op in the next patch. It's supposed to be constrained by new penalties for having neighbours that are not tributaries, but I suspect it'll be easy to manage for a human player.

[@mkd2839]

No, in 1.19 Ming is the most overpowered country with the existing Minghals "exploit", which will be nerf or remove by 1.20

[@ThatGuy-yh1pu]

+StardustFromReinmuth But that exploit nerf wont really matter because in the upcoming DLC the 50% base autonomy, the bad parts of the celestial empire government will not only be removed but the government itself will be buffed and the mandate of heaven modifier will only be removed if you lose empire of china, which can only be lost if you lose a war to someone who is using the "claim mandate of heaven" CB,not to mention the things the Empire of China mechanics you will have access to. But maybe the Manchu buffs and their special mechanic can bring Ming to it's knees. Who knows.

[@SoldusJK]

Ming is big enough to be able to blob in many directions without getting AE on the other side. You can expand a bit in korea, then a bit in south asia, then into tibet, and then go korea again ect ect. Distance from Europe puts you away from the big/powerful players in the world stage long enough to outblob them. The autonomy floor is pretty bad, but sheer size makes for it. Your real challenge is overcoming the crapness of the asian units.

[@ThatGuy-yh1pu]

+SoldusJK I wonder how players will control Ming since normal expansion will be discouraged in the Mandate of Heaven expansion. Well at least the 50% base autonomy will be removed.

[@SoldusJK]

Paradox loves their size limitation mechanics... Prussian Monarchy, Merchant Republic, ect. But the players always find a way around. Given, not all of their border states will be tributaries, expansion into horde lands is still possible.

[@vohbovohborian28]

Before watching this: if Ottomans is anything lower than 1, you have no clue what you are talking about.

[@vohbovohborian28]

After watching it: yeah, you're wrong. Then again: you are also wrong about these countries needing a nerf. The game is mostly fine balance wise the way it is, just some AI upgrades are needed.

[@caferustwat]

Vohbo Vohborian And it's based on real history, which means the countries that are 'op' in the game were also 'op' in real life

[@AmariFukui]

Do you count the Minghals in this consideration? Because they really make Ming the #1 here.

[@vohbovohborian28]

You can become Coptic or Catholic, you can even become Emperor of the HRE pretty soon and end up with 40 free vassals...

[@darkfireslide]

The thing about the countries needing a nerf is mostly there for humor. EU4 isn't supposed to be about balance.

[@wickedAberration]

Heh, Timurids is hell when you have to deal with Horde Unity.

[@Munchausenification]

get -2 unrest guy from the start, make heir and king generals, if heir is bad general as well just disinherate him. pick mission for riches of india, at 11 december have two diplomats ready, one for threaten war on Multan the next for declaring war on Delhi straight away. Doing that and most likely Delhi doesnt have allies. Also at game start switch home node to persain trade node. Get 100 % on Delhi and take provinces so he got a hard time to expand. You dont have to keep the mission since it was mostly for a quick easy war on Delhi. Later on you can get a nice mission on Delhi as well, but require them to be under 100 % warscore cost. by doing this you might have to fight persian rebels, but money will be flowing in so mercs is not hard to afford. Also staying a horde for a good long time before coming Mughals is not a bad idea, since the units are the strongest early game. I for myself, wait to 1500 before switching tag. Go kill your rivals first, most likely QQ and Jaunpur, to get nice PP and gear up for invading Ottomans early on. Btw. you should be giving alot of lands to Ardalan after burning it to the ground since adm will be important for getting first idea group. You dont have to do as i do, but after killing persians the first time around there should be some lands you can make to Shia Zealots instead of persian rebels, meaning you are able to go Shia. I do that in order for my first idea group to be religious ideas. Just so after you form the Mughals, you dont have to fabricate claims first. Another note, delete most of your forts, maybe keep the one in Roh and the one in the province of Bukhara since most of them are useless, they dont really protect your lands well enough anyways. I hope this helps a bit.

[@wickedAberration]

Munchausenification Timurids into Persia is the route that seems hardest to maintain. I just did a different run as QQ to finally form Persia.

[@Munchausenification]

Why would you form Persia as Timurds anyway? You just make yourself weaker by doing that. Forgot to mention if you play as a horde where the tribes get 30-50 % of the land you might as well debase currency as well. Meaning you will have money for everything you would like. debasing before razing provinces is also very good, almost so you make money on debasing in the end. More than 20 corruption is where you should stop though, since you want to root out most of it once you can tech up.

[@wickedAberration]

Munchausenification I don't own Rights of Man, can't debase!

[@Yell0wCheese]

takes you 5 years ingame to form the mughals though

[@SherbertHusky]

Dark, have you heard of the Minghals strategy? It's when you culture shift to afgan as Ming and form The Mughals to get rid of the Mandate of Heaven early.

[@ethanwmonster9075]

they are unstoppable but i find ming incredibly boring.

[@ethanwmonster9075]

i hate playing as huge nations i prefer to play as largish european nations with a clear direction anything less than a hundred development and i cannot play it.

[@georgek.9394]

Donald J Pepe my favorite is brandeburg and reform into prussia. ive never reached higher than like 3000 development since fuck the HRE and fuck poland :P

[@SheheenFans]

These are all very good starts. But I'm not sure I would describe them as overpowered. Remember, this isn't some shitty moba, as such, being perfectly balanced isn't something that should be desired. A healthy amount of imbalance makes for more varied playstyles and more interesting obstacles to overcome, imo.

[@darkfireslide]

"Easiest Starts" may have been a more accurate title, in hindsight.

[@SoldusJK]

I wouldn't put Austria, Timurids and Ming as easy, but they are indeed overpowered. Thing is, nobody said "overpowered" or "imbalance" is bad. EU4 is history. History is imbalanced. Some countries are bound to grow, some are not. It's healthy to make the game unique and fun. That said, it still doesn't make them not overpowered; they're still far ahead of the rest in raw power early on and have a good shot of opening that gap further.

[@mackycabangon8945]

SoldusJK Who will replace them?

[@VarietyGamerChannel]

They were OP historically for centuries, so it's fine. This is a game set in history.

[@amocv]

Its simulate(or try) the history. For example Ottoman counquer whole Memluks empire just in about 1 year and this is ingame not even possible. So ottoman is even weaker then in real. Or Spain : they counquer and colonistion in real much more place then in game ever possible...

[@fatihaydogdu2720]

I was getting angry when i see Ottomans at number 2 but then you picked Ming for number one. But don't forget that game starts with "Ottomans are the strongest nation in the game" hint.

[@heavenwatcher100]

Ming is richer but the Ottomans empire is better for expanding. If you want easy casual play and just stick in a corner and become a regional power with supreme economy and technology, then Ming is a better. If you want to expand in all directions and aim for WC, then Ottomans is better. I am Chinese btw, but I kind of agree with you on the ranking. Casual Newbies prefer Ming but better skilled players prefer the Ottos.

[@Weltenbastler2000]

And here is the list for the overall strongest countries: Nr 10 Kebab Nr 9 Winged Hussars or the blue blob (for beginners) Nr 8 TeutonicOrder (can into spacemarines) Nr 7 Coptomans Nr 6 Aztec-invasion Nr 5 Prussia Nr 4 Caddo-invasion Nr 3 Minghals Nr 2 Jan Mayen Nr 1 Ryukyu

[@vinhny2406]

Weltenbastler2000 where is ulm

[@vinhny2406]

ye ;_;

[@Dodovacer]

You clearly forgot Albania and Byzantium :P

[@meen.artotzka]

No Ulm ? Dislike

[@muratdurmaz4691]

I prefer İttomans.

[@nickc1137]

ive played alot of eu3. ive had eu4 on my pc for months, bought it bc it was on sale for like 70% off, JUST started getting into it and your videos have made it a very easy and fun transition. bravo

[@vance8832]

You have to admit, there is just something about the Ottoman flag that is truly terrifying.

[@msnmasc24]

I know Prussia is not a nation at the start of the game, but once you form it, (Easiest done with Brandenburg) their military will roll over anyone and everyone in the game. I would have given it a mention.

[@jacobnielsen1089]

I know Sweden is very capable of breaking off from Denmark (the developers are Swedish) but they surprisingly added features to help Denmark hold onto Sweden, they have an age of discovery bonus called "Danish subject loyalty which basically forces Sweden's loyalty and makes it easy to expand into Novgorod and the Teutonic order so that you can then annex Norway, and once you annex Norway you should almost immediately be able to annex Sweden, once that is done, it should only take about 150 years from 1444, you should have over 500 development as well as the biggest navy in the world. That makes me believe that Denmark should have had an honourable mention, plus Muscovy and Poland are always friendly from the beginning.

[@Orca8472]

Hey darkfireslide - I love these videos of yours. They're witty, insightful and get to the point. Thanks!

[@Nikolaj11]

I feel like Lithuania on their own should have been a honorable mention too. You can almost always freely conquer the east while keeping Poland as BFF throughout the game. It might be a tough start against Muscovy but your starting size should be enough to cripple them, especially if you declare while they occupy Novgorod.

[@Munchausenification]

You can also go against Poland for PU over them instead as long you just marry them. You are stronger than them from start so should be easy

[@Nikolaj11]

Absolutely an option. I like staying friends with them just for RP reasons, so I prefer to keep the historical friend modifier. :)

[@INecr0]

+Salterino Kripperino What the fuck are you talking about?!

[@ccem.]

ottoman op in game because otto was op in history

[@caferustwat]

Burgundy should be an honorable mention. Provence usually gets excommunicated so you can pick up Lorraine en Barrois for free. Burgundy gets underestimated, but with their vassals they can boast a pretty big army, which usually matches France's army before they get elan

[@manahanjulsbernardd.6793]

Ottomans is always powerful at the early game, but when through times they always die

[@Dodovacer]

Let me guess you killed them? ;)

[@manahanjulsbernardd.6793]

Patt Ban even when I don't Muscovy, Austria, and Commonwealth will be there to destroy Ottomans

[@Dodovacer]

Well. The first one - I see but Austria and Commonwealth often fall short from my experience. I often play Golden Horde or Ottomans so I often destroy them early and Austria has the HRE as an disadvantage from my view to deal with. In most early game scenarios you need all three to defeat Ottomans so they can break them each when they are alone. Mucovy later is always a threat because they have unlimited expansion oppotunity to the east. ;)

[@iglutv7758]

AI-Otto is weak. Player-Otto is just disgustingly strong.

[@aglassofmilk5779]

Juls Bern its always Russia who kills ottomans

[@MrSonyChaos]

Played as France in my first game, allied with the spaniards + bourguignon (has overpowered vassals for some reason) + brittany + Provence. Wrecked the tea drinkers in a war they started, without killing a single of their soldiers with mine, the allies did all of the work for me. This is how you put an end to the 100 year war, weaken all of my neighbors and I reap all of the rewards lol.

[@Funky_Dumpling]

Bengal is so so overpowered, maybe even more than VJ, those national ideas are thicc

[@eatenpancreas]

no ulm? 0/10 worst top 10 list ever

[@idit2705]

Ethiopia could have been at least honorable mention I think their king in the start is excellent they start with really easy expansion paths like the Nubia area the new tribes at souther Ethiopia and weak Somali nations they also start with 2 vassals and 1 of the best religions on the game

[@lukasnutz6073]

Idit Meir exactly. and by going for the mamluks -> mediterranean, you also get Renaissance/ colonialism pretty easily

[@owlblocksdavid4955]

Ethiopians were my first game.

[@wilmereneris6254]

Nerf history?

[@compengineeringismylife2322]

:)

[@LMMEntertainment]

History says, that ottoman soldiers wasn't supermarines.

[@Kipark52]

I dont know if anyone has mentioned this yet but the unrest from losing the mandate of heaven is +10

[@dancorps1388]

ShadeofMagenta he was thinking of just the modifier Ming start with, which has -5 to it. he probably didn't realize you gain another modifier that is +10. all in all, a +15 unrest change, which is a death sentence for most nations.

[@Dave451996]

Great, another top ten!!! I love these.

[@Dave451996]

If you run out of ideas (just in case) two possibilities for very interesting Top Tens: - Top Ten National ideas, honestly I´m kind of waiting for this one since your Top Ten on Idea groups - Top Ten alternate/new Idea Groups that would be great or Interesting to have added (also I would love to read the comment section for this one, people would surely be very creative) Basically topics idea groups could be about if they would add more of them.

[@Dave451996]

Sorry, I just have to write some idea group ideas, I like the idea \o-o/ - logistics ideas: from faster movement of troups and diplomats to shorter recruitment time and even a slight trade bonus everything that has to do with movement and well.. logistics. Would be administrative, however the faster movement speed of troops may also strenghten the army (Blitzkrieg) - romance ideas: whats better than a competent heir? A hot one! Makes it easier to get other countries to accept royal marriages, more children as well as an inbreeding-idea, that makes newborns eighter great (very good stats) or with awful stats. Best idea of the group however would be the last one, that gives one more diplomatic connections - slot (I play the game in german, I don´t know if you call it this way, crucify me). Not possible for republics. -

[@danilobodroza7244]

I think that National ideas are good idea haha :D My opinion, Ottomans, Prussia, Smolensk, Jianzhou-Manchu-Qing, Gotland and Mughals.

[@Dave451996]

Yeah, I´d really like to see this, there are so many interesting ones. Also I didn´t know Smolensk has their own. Btw don´t take my ideas for idea groups too seriously, I was drunk when writing all of this and its kind of weird now :D

[@danilobodroza7244]

Yeah, but Smolensk is kinda hard to play, but interesting, since you can form Russia with it. But dealing with Lithuania and Poland is kinda hard :D And their national ideas are pretty good because they are military oriented. +10 % land fire damage, -25% mercenary maintenance, +1 land leader fire, +10% Artillery combat ability and +10% siege ability. :D

[@drakan4769]

note on castile: later in the game they can get an event that works the same way as the berian wedding, but on portugal, as in, they get to vassalize a whole colonial competitor for free, with a reduction to liberty desire for their historical ally modifier, and when annexed you get their colonial nations (they don't integrate into yours, meaning less liberty desire from development and you can get yet another extra merchant from each one)

[@Shiraori999]

Additional honorable mentions: Manchu Tribes • excellent position to form Manchu, Qing and beating down Ming Brandenburg • excellent position to form Prussia, Germany and/or unite the HRE Burgundy • great position to form the Netherlands and beating France early on Northern Italian states • Most of them have a good chance to control Italy and controlling 2 end nodes early on. Bohemia • In position to beat Austria, becoming the emperor early on and forming the HRE Brunei • good spot for forming Malaya and controlling one of the wealthier nodes early on. Denmark • starts as a northern europian powerhouse with their subjects and can easily go east and/or west Japan • starts the game with the highest discipline possible for NIs. Pretty good position once Japan is united

[@lillang8812]

its not about all nations being balanced its about their true historical power

[@teddys5775]

one of my favorite games was as castile getting the pu quickly and somehow PUing Portugal at the exact same time. immediately started a war with france who was already at war with england and an oddly powerful burgandy amd got royally crushed. everyone hated me from the instant massive expansion but who cares no one can stop me now. the papal state became a super power in the game to. probably one of the best but strangest games i ever played

[@Quethonable]

Muscovy is really amazing. It's great taking quantity as your first idea group because then you get 100+ force limit really quickly, with countries like the Ottomans lagging way behind. In my current run it's only 1560 and I am about half way to rebuilding the soviet union.

[@thomasjunker5415]

Well, Ming just got turned from "a bit OP" to "incredibly broken OP"... thanks for that, Paradox

[@杨军-y9b]

goff0103 you can challenge just because it is ai not human. If player is human , he can do expansion much more faster than you use poor tiny nation . Or declare war on second month to remove you from the game, just cost 2 stability, who cares

[@MrAssassinschris]

I think England should be way higher on the list. The free PU you get over France, basically combines the two greatest west-european powers, making it OP.

[@marcelo90z]

What about the Moluccan twins (Ternate and Tidore), where you get free Philippines, Australia and Spice Islands with virtually no potential rival besides the neighbor. Both of them start with pretty good rulers, Ternate has 4/4/3 and Tidore has a 3/3/3, so the only major difference between those two is the map colour. By 1500-ish, you can easily score 4 colonizers due to the Moluccan Idea set, and they can easily form colonies in America if you colonize the nearby islands. Due to those countries being surrounded by water, getting the biggest and the strongest navy in the world is not a challenge, and you get a free China expansion when Ming explodes. They are *really* overpowered.

[@slimegoop9853]

You can form Tibet as Ming by 1450s and re stateify by the 70s or 80s making you insanely better! (Forming Tibet removes the celestial empire)

[@leant6487]

For Castile you forgot it has a high chance of inheriting northern Burgundy.

[@kristis61]

Funny thing I inherited burgundy but had to reload two years back and I never inherited it ..😂

[@connorfairbairn1150]

I agree with you until the end, I would say the ottomans deserve #1 based on your reasoning for France, because of institution spread, The ottomans are always close enough to them to basically make them western off the bat. the 33% core cost is also by far the most OP mechanic in the entire game only rivalled by the Mughal 25%. Ottomans also get much better military at the start as Ming starts with a base 90% discipline, and to add to that, celestial empires take forever to shake off until Ming can finally blob, meaning the ottomans usually reach 1500 development in a heart beat and Ming usually stagnates. Also ming is surrounded by neighbours, minus Korea all having either Horde soldiers (that are OP as hell at the start of the game) and diffrent religions, making expansion even more challenging, making Ming one of the biggest double edged swords in the game. That 1100 development means jack shit to all of the problems you have to deal with as Ming.

[@zeevox1628]

Actually, mst powerful nation is Jan Mayen. It's so OP that you can only play as it with a command... "thebearhaslanded"

[@blaz2892]

I played as Sweden, and I took over most of Eastern Europe, like, half of Asia, and almost all of the Americas. SO OP!

[@TheCAMPER1996]

here is an OP strat for u: pick ming, done. nah, just joking. pick ming, conquer your way through tibet and into northern india. conquer the provinces u'd need for the mughals and turn ur entire country into territories, besides the afghan provinces. that makes afghan your primary culture, which means u can form the mughals :) it doesn't take long, i managed to pull this off and turn everything back into states til 1509. this is basically a free WQ

[@Tosnoob]

Remember that Ming will break if they simply conquer everything around them. They need a lot of Tributaries around them or they lose Mandate.

[@mr.dawson9141]

I love playing as Austria. They have so many things to do and you never have a point in time where you have the speed on five for ages. However keeping the HRE princes in line gets a little irritating.

[@Grimfang999]

Dark horse: Florence. Three province state in central Italy starts basically excommunicated. So why OP? It's an Oligarchic republic with Tuscan ideas and high development. Starts can be a bit slow but you have a 6/5/5 ruler and can easily make new ones. You complete ideas insanely fast and dominate everyone, form Italy and then nobody can stop you except England since they stalemate you with their collosal endgame navy.

[@KevinCurry]

Thanks for the EU4 videos. With MOH DLC upcoming, assume there will be a sale on previously released DLCs. Currently have AOW, CS, RP, WON & COP and enjoy my current gameplay. Would any other DLCs be worth a buy on sale (ROM, MN, ED, COS)?

[@darkfireslide]

Rights of man is definitely worth the asking price in my opinion.

[@vjorp5332]

Mazovia not for first place :/ ??? Mazovia is strongest start!

[@lord6617]

I would say Ayutthaya should be on this list rather than Austria, but at least as an honorable mention. They are kind of the Ottomans of the East - Strong nation near gigantic trade node and surrounded by different religions and cultures so they can expand unchecked. Ayutthaya have rich Colonial options, the Malacca trade node is one of the best in the game, their neighbors are all relatively weak and divided, and they have access to grassland and farmland provinces which make early institutions easier for them to get than many others.

[@darksylveon4486]

The Prussian Army is the most overpowered thing in the Game 20 % Morale 20 % Infantry combat ability, 5 % Discipline. Stack that up with quality and defensive ideas. And church power for morale and discipline. But Brandenburg isn't easy to start with (for beginners at least). I think most things shouldn't be nerfed. Because it makes the Nations unique. It would feel like a vanilla CIV game where everything is almost the same. The Ottomans are easy to defeat at mid-late game. England (Great Britain) is supposed to get pretty rich, because they were. As castille you could get crushed by France if don't pay attention and they declare war on you at a weak point.

[@muhammetaliozturk3131]

I never played Ming once because of its massive rebels. But I will give a chance to Ming once new DLC comes out. Do you have any suggestion as Ming?

[@P-Alob]

POV: you haven't seen the Mali decline(this video is quite old so the mali decline probably didn't existed at the time)

[@wolfm33]

I would also add Portugal to this list. Ally Castille at the start of the game and then start colonizing like crazy without a care in the world.

[@thestarboundshow5129]

10. Norway 9. Brabant 8. I'm Making Memes 7. Granada 6. Guaranteed By Ottomans 5. Not The Ottomans 4. The Ottomans 3. Leinster 2. Ryuku 1.Ulm

[@erikthegodeatingpenguin2335]

Ming is pretty good, but have you tried forming the Mughals as Ming? They're unstoppable! Although this probably will not work that well in the next patch, in this one, the Minghals are the best.

[@DaxRaider]

well its not OP its STRONG. op means overpowered but the power level is right for ottomans, they just was that strong

[@MistermistTheOne]

And here I expected Prussia, cause that Prussian government and ideas are God like.

[@bobbyb2506]

*STARTS*

[@TygrinDrox]

MistermistTheOne yes but you can say that you can't form Prussia as fast as many of the other nations meaning you can't get it at the start

[@bobbyb2506]

every nation he mentions starts in 444. and by the start i get the very start. then you should start in 1821 and take prussia its very powerful right ?

[@Dodovacer]

Brandenburg is very strong IMO ;)

[@WhyName]

Patt Ban but Poland is stronger, so just firm Prussia as Poland and you get a free Lithuania on top.

[@hakusansaku8800]

I think players start with easy nations first to learn the base game. But then progress towards more difficult starts and nations.

[@Dodovacer]

Nice video and good list. But I would put the countries in different order. As a Ottoman fanboy I would put them ahead of Ming. Also Russia/Muskowy should be number two I think. In most of my games I struggle to beat the and must say I think if they are unchecked they always are a pain to deal with. France should be a three and Sweden for me looks much more scary than Poland. I have beaten Poland and Lithuania so often in the early game and I think even thou they have nice Ideas for fighting its nothing compared to Sweden or France. In general I think because Ottomans get so many free claims it is one of the most easy countries to quickly expand with and learn the key mechanics of this field. England or Castille often look rather weak and are often quickly limited in their options for expanding outside of colonial expansion. But this is the perspective of someone who really enjoys playing nations that are either easter of Europe or on its eastern border - like Byzantium, Ottomans or the golden Horde. Also the HRE Nations like Brandenburg or Teutons have terrifying potential later in the game. Thanks again for the video and I dont want to be to critical as I mostly understand the list just disagree with the order. ;)

[@jakehatton2910]

As a new player this is a genuine question (as opposed to a rhetorical one): Why is Portugal not here? Surely as Portugal just ally/eat Castile and colonise to your heart's content, with no threat from external expansion? Buckets of ducats and the ability to lock down the coast of the new world before anyone else can get there seem like damn good abilities to me :/ Can anyone answer me any possible downsides to Portugal I might have overlooked? I'm just interested in learning the ins and outs of the game :)

[@ssPeto]

Four years later I sat, That's a Great question! :)

[@bmobmo6438]

i'm not the only one that saw Ming in #1 coming from a mile off. they used to be weak because not western tech group, but now with the institutions system they have become oh so very OP.

[@alexriches6957]

Just wait for the mandate of heaven expansion. They are loosing their minimum of 50% autonomy.

[@bmobmo6438]

because rights of man didn't make them OP enough. now they get the full potential of that 1109 starting development instead of it acting like (at most) 554.5? wat

[@SoldusJK]

Nah, the province expenses are kept (fort maintenance, state maintenance...) so it's more like ~400 economically ~600 militarily.

[@multslash]

They do not explode even with mandate at Bellow 50 and a war exaustion at 10, so op

[@杨军-y9b]

This 15th century ,not 19th. There is no problem for setting up England like this.

[@unity.2315]

Excuse me, I've found a bag. Where's the fucking glorious Ulm.

[@kotzpenner]

>when you watch this video and then see that Paradox plans to make the Ottos even stronger beyond comprehension. Paradox why

[@ourempires6457]

no top ten list is complete without jan mayen

[@oliverbeck9841]

What a likeable community

[@dovahkiin32]

The new DLC has uncapped the autonomy. Ming Empire will rule all as it is even more overpowered

[@BigBossJ]

I love that your channel does vids about strat games which are not just lets play. I hate lps

[@TropicalStorm4213]

You should have mentioned the minghal strategy that lets you reform 200 years faster

[@TheThebestgame4]

Ottomans are op ? who would have tought ?

[@Dave-rm1mb]

The only country I would class as OP was the Ottoman's up until the nerf. Others such as France and England were/still are strong although they're manageable if you adapt to the random/changing political environment. There's not a single strategy for any one nation really. You set your goals but have to make changes in order to get around things that don't always go your way.

[@levonclark9604]

Ming is really op, but they're main problem is if u don't have the common sense dlc it takes about 200 yrs for the renaissance to reach you, and more for colonialism, etc,

[@aksmex2576]

As the ottomans you can reach mings development in a couple decades.

[@kevindejong01]

I played Castille and got PUed by Aragon because my heir died around 1500 and the iberian wedding event wouldn’t fire

[@kitchy3518]

Ming is also one of the best because they can easily form the Mughals by running over to North India and culture shifting

[@Varaga_82]

Pls make top ten impossible America starts! Literally like the most difficult nations to play

[@Ponanoix]

Every country might be OP. Starting position only makes it easier. The true thing, that can be OP, is player's mind. Would destoyed Austria still be OP or a mighty Sardinia-Piedmont going for an Italian Ambition, that started from little Savoy?

[@joelout]

I'd add Mamluks, Denmark, Lithuania & Bahmanis as HMs. Maybe Qara aswell.

[@incendiarybullet3516]

Help, I can unite Germany as Ulm, yet I can't get past 1500 as the Ottomans.

[@strategos3655]

1. Ottomans 2. Ming 3. Austria 4. Castille 5. France 6. Portugal 7. Muscovy 8. England 9. Denmark 10. Delhi/Jaunput/Bahamnis/Vijayanagar

[@erayt9721]

Austria shit. Because Austria historical rival of France also OTTOMANS ! They're very op

[@eurovisiontszai9125]

My top 10 10.Golden Hordes 9. Castille 8.Sweden 7.Rosbif 6.France 5.Moscovy 4.Polandball 3.Kebabs 2.Austria (with annexed Hungary) 1. LET'S SAY (Ming) CHINA

[@Soundeagle3456]

why is Ming so strong

[@danielhall6354]

i am intro a massive vassal swam - don't judge me .

[@TheAirMarshall]

Ottomans because of the Jannisary wages are now pretty much in check, lest they get massive public order issues and the Jannisaries mutiny.

NOBODY CAN NERF THE OTTOMAN POWER.

[@SoldusJK]

Austria is terribly underpowered in multiplayer, it's only overpowered if you're really smart AND singleplayer only, actually :P The Timurids, I'd place in at least 3rd or more since hordes are undefeatable early game and they can push for a reform by forming Mughals whenever the horde advantage is gone. Dare I say, their only rival is the Ottomans, who they trump easily on the very early game and the Ming. I'd drop Austria off the list (and put them on the honorable mentions) in favor of Caddo which takes about as much knowledge but has a lot more free expansion since no proximity to Ottomans and their ideas are less "make sure everyone is happy" and more "make sure everyone is dead", and then I'd move Timmies up all the way to #2. Otherwise, great list again, dark :)

[@SoldusJK]

Not quite, assuming everyone's skill is the same. Austria is generally the first to get gang-banged, since everyone wants an emperor that doesn't keep pestering them, so alliances against Austria start banding in faster than Austria can react. Anyone bordering or inside the empire generally wants a weak emperor, so they'll try pretty hard to mess with Austria. Couple that with weak military ideas (3% discipline... :/), rather low development (makes them super weak if they lose emperorship) and a plethora of historical rivals (France/Ottomans), toppled with Denmark wanting some german clay to be able to integrate the KU, and they're bound to be the first to go.

[@SoldusJK]

1) That depends on game size. Usually Bohemia and Brandenburg are both taken and oftentimes there are more passive players doing the minors as well as that one guy who picks a OPM and develops all game. Unless, of course, you're talking about small MP sessions. 2) Some people take the historical context seriously in EU4, partly why it's so succesful (lets people fix what they consider the wrongs in history. 3) The low development is far more crippling than just "not nice", it basically means you'll be drowning on debt in the first hard war and that your army is worthless if emperorship is lost. 4) There are no rich lands which Austria can expand in Multiplayer. Italy triggers loads of AE which triggers a coalition. In MP, a coalition is guaranteed death since players are more likely than not going to use it against you. Going into Germany is just barely different. Hungary is usually a player and when not Poland/Ottomans will contest it (+ it's not very rich). 5) Forming Italy in Multiplayer as Austria is going to take a lot of careful steps, France, Spain and Ottomans/Byzantium are all likely to claim a stake of it at some point, the coalition has a good shot at forming up if you rush it too much and the requisites for Italy are crazy harsh to do under these conditions.

[@djaevlenselv]

Why Caddo in particular? They have generic Native ideas, which are definitely good, but are shared with many other Native Council countries. Is it just because they're the easiest country to do that exploit where you become Nahuatl? And that you can reroll to get an ideal starting ruler?

[@SoldusJK]

Caddo and Wichita specifically have the easiest time due to native council (reroll until your all-mighty 6/6/6) and distance to the province that converts you to Nahuatl. But yeah, it's not "Caddo-specific".

[@liamskeen2884]

7:30 good point

[@danielmaynard1370]

I arguably would replace austria Siam or Pasai since austria, if they lose the HRE crown become a pushover, also if your going for a proper HRE run it is quite hard keeping the empire together, defended, peaceful and expansionist at the same time. I have seen the Austians get smashed by any of the powers named after them and often cant get their ful imperial force limit because they just too poor. Siam can smash everyone around them and laugh and pasai just eats everyone on Indonesia. Though I am not adept at playing as austria.

[@jonbalderh]

Yea, but what about Ryukyuu

[@Ilya-lu7oi]

number one: china the last thing you'd want in your eu4 game is someone's ming empire

[@Soundeagle3456]

why is china so strong in this game. I guess the developers were commies

[@lostinnepal7897]

Yeah!! More top 10 lists pleaseee :D

[@Oujouj426]

The expansion is gonna make them even more OP with the age system.

[@MrHoeBow]

joujou264 them?

[@Oujouj426]

Look at the title of the video, plus pretty much every big country. Have you looked up what the new expansion entails? Those age system buffs are huge, and the big countries will have the easiest time achieving the splendor objectives. I welcome more challenging games for small nations, but these buffs are so massive compared to any previous expansion, I'm doubtful about the balancing.

[@MrHoeBow]

***** I know, but I was wondering if you were mentioning any country specifically.

[@Oujouj426]

Well, in that case - you know how the optimal times to deal with Otto are the first 50 years and the last 100? You can cut those first 50 in half, because Otto is getting an exclusive first age bonus in the form of siege ability, 33% to be exact. Gone are the days when you could siege down Otto while he sieges your land, I can see it already, Otto sieges your entire nation down and then turns around to finish off your army. But I guess a Coptomans WC is even easier now.

[@MrHoeBow]

***** I know, i watched the Paradox video.

[@Yarenoglu]

Ottomans aren't overpowered, they were an incredibly strong military nation in real life, to cut their power in the game, just to make it easier for byzantine players (which was conquered by ottomans in real life) would be unrealistic and make the game feel less balanced.

[@samuelhoskins9983]

Top 10 Non-1444 Starts

[@Sparhafoc]

Nerf? No. The game's not meant to have wholly parallel nations because, you know, it's a historically based game.

[@vy9410]

They dont need to be nerved because eu4 base on history and those countries were strong at that time

[@malnutritionboy]

Japan is actually one of the strongest in my opinion

[@flamingpineconex5140]

Ottomans, Ming, France, Austria, Muscovy, Timurids, Uzbek, Japan, Poland, Denmark?