Europe is Killing it's own Car Industry | EURO 7

[@Matt_from_Florida]

To me, *someone who does ALL car maintenance myself;* 2000s cars (and a handful from the LATE 1990s) are the perfect "sweet spot" of modernity with sufficient amenities before overcomplication, expense, and unreliability became the norm.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

The people in car services told me the same thing, cars in the 2010´s became less reliable while most of the repair became too complicated for regular people

[@alkaholic4848]

I've always said this too.

[@felawes]

Like my 1996 SL500 and 2005 ML350.

[@garfieldtait5584]

Keeping an old car on the road is much more environmentally friendly than throwing it away and buying a new one.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

To a degree, very old cars are much more polluting, but for those made in late 2000's and newer this is definitely true

[@garfieldtait5584]

@@unconventionaleconomics Many a study has shown that you can drive a car for something like forty years and it still won't have emitted the same amount of emmissions that it did to produce the thing in the first place.

[@tidysampler585]

I for one will be keeping my 2008 Euro 4 2.2 tdci going for as long as possible! It’s practical, and my choice of car. I will not be obeying the draconian Euro 7 madness 🤣

[@phdonme1]

At least here in the US after 20 years you get to put historic tags on it. You don't have to go through any emissions tests or standards. An insurance is dirt cheap. Also these new cars it looks like they're on the path to non-ownership for the customer.

[@tallandhairy]

@@phdonme1 Where do you think the US got the idea from? Historic car allowances are not unique to the US!!

[@seb_1504]

The problems with bureaucrats with no real world experience.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Exactly, I have some friends that have gone or are planning to go to Brussels to work in the EC bureaucracy, people full of ideals but very little exposure to reality outside of their bubble

[@mrrolandlawrence]

no need. just get some brown envelopes from some friendly "local" business.

[@MR_THINQ]

I feel sorry for the car manufacturers, this is unachievable and is going to cost them billions with little profit.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

It is, sadly the European Commission is stuffed with bureaucrats with little technical understanding

[@cypher7031]

@@unconventionaleconomicseurope in general has become a pathetic imitation of what it once was. It doesn’t belong to europeans anymore and it’s increasingly displaying suicidal tendencies.

[@nahthravan]

@@unconventionaleconomics and total lack of common sense or budgetting

[@jijzer3284]

Thats why in europe you only have the basic boring models. Rest of the world car manufactorers can give away some options

[@MR_THINQ]

@@jijzer3284 No, actually it’s because WE ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THE SAFETY OF PEOPLE - unlike you yanks who don’t even given a shit about human lives (e.g - the right to bare arms in modern society that doesn’t need to, or eating chlorinated chicken that is banned everywhere else in the world because it poisons peoples bodies and causes cancer).

[@carlosfurukawa6133]

Politicians are stupid. Air pollution is one thing, but we have other things worse than that.look at airplanes, and airplanes thugs, they have no regulation. Ships. Mining for minerals. Earth pollution, overuse of the land and use of chemicals in the land.. its not only one side of the story. great video!

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Thank you! And you are correct, climatism has hijacked the entire debate about the environment, which is sad given so many other issues

[@ExternalInputs]

Cars are an easier target, something politicians have more control over. There are no zero emission aircraft on the horizon, the only way to lower their emissions is to not fly, as proven during covid. Shipping is another huge polluter, but a solution for that seems very far away, and politicians don't have the control over planes and ships that they do over cars domestically. It would require a united approach by many countries to have much effect, and trying to get politicians to agree is problematic at best.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

@@ExternalInputs Yeah, zero emissions container ships and planes are so far a fairytale, mainly due to energy density of alternative sources and their price. But it's not like the strongly reduced flying during covid made that much difference. Not just flying, but all transportation was reduced as well as industrial output to some degree, and the emissions barely moved

[@frankmueller4389]

This is what call an objective coverage with logic applied! Wonderful content

[@jakubzgora]

Well done! I am forced to constantly patching-up my my Euro 2 car simply because it's much cheaper than buying newer car in the same class.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Yep, I am amazed that the politicians do not see or ignore the fact that it's making the cars more expensive and thus the delay buying new ones

[@Tom_Hadler]

The worst thing isn't even the emissions rules, but the tracking and "safety" features. Orwellian stuff. And in the UK, they will still adopt this rubbish, so brexit has bad sides but not many good.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Absolutely, in the long term it is potentially much more dangerous, especially in the hands of overlords of justice

[@MiGujack3]

Big brother time

[@raymondcooke-g9i]

THE SMALL BOATS.......A BREXIT BENEFIT!! ha ha ha

[@t2p]

More sensors yay…get the resistor box out …

[@fredfred2363]

You should make a video comparing keeping old cars on the road compared to replacing them with brand new cars. Include, depreciation, built-in energy use (mining, manufacturing, fabrication energy use), and emissions. For example, the energy used to manufacture a brand new EV is more than an old 1.2L vw Polo uses in its entire 20 year life. And older cars are manufactured with much simpler, easier to extract/mine materials. It would be an interesting and educational video. This was a good video. I'm glad the YT algorithm offered it to me! Thanks.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Thank you for the praise! I am actually currently working on a series about emissions from cars manufacturing, usage and electricity generation. The first video about the direct emissions of EV's vs ICE cars is already out, but that is just the tip of the iceberg :)

[@clintoncoker6]

You need to provide data to back up your claims.

[@chrissmith2114]

Now look out for governments making it more difficult for a vehicle to pass its MOT annual test, they will do this to make it increasingly expensive to keep older cars on the road....

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Yep, they want to speed up the phase-out of old vehicles

[@alkaholic4848]

It's all becoming just yet another poor person's tax. Also these decisions are made by people who live in a big city like London or Brussels who see cars as a luxury. They don't realise that for all the people living in the villages, towns, and smaller cities; that cars are absolutely essential.

[@Jomesteer]

Dude, i dont think it will be enough ev’s for everyone anyway.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Yeah, given that there is more than a billion combustion engine cars, it would take a long time to replace them all even if we had enough resources, which we don’t. Obviously, the technology and materials change over time, so eventually we would certainly be able to create enough EV’s, but some idealists think this can be achieved in 10-20 years

[@Jomesteer]

@@unconventionaleconomics yes exactly. Instead we should freely innovate the technology of reducing the amount of emissions as we can. What government should do instead is the less emissions = less taxes, which will make people want to buy eco friendly diesel/petrol cars. Only issue is the price.

[@rkmbnt]

BMW used electrically heated catalytic converters on the 750i in 1998. It can not be that hard to implement.

[@vaynebishop]

And how much did a 750i cost as I am sure everyone could afford one back in 1998 with this "simple" technology.

[@rkmbnt]

@@vaynebishop electric heating elements are simple and also quite inexpensive, it is not high tech at all. We have all the other good and bad tech from 90s flagships and much more already in the mainstream shitmobiles for years. So how hard do you think it would be to put a simple heating probe inside a catalytic converter?

[@vaynebishop]

@@rkmbnt not hard, a simple coiled wire would work. How long it would work and how reliable it would be is a different question all together.

[@rkmbnt]

@@vaynebishop parts longevity as a manufacturer's concern does not exist, nobody would care as long as they get the money from the customer - thats why we have bullshit gimmicks & ufo shapes all around, engines blowing up etc - the cars are built to be sold, not to reliably serve the buyer for 20 years.

[@stephenhall3515]

I have subscribed because I like your oblique views of economics, especially re vehicles. The EU Commission is a non-sovereign mini dictatorship which assumes power it cannot actually put into effect if a a few member states refuse to comply. "Directives" are not binding laws and when the British people lost patience with restrictive practices cutting it off from Commonwealth and world markets we [I am British but live in Ireland which is a slavish EU member because by roots are Irish and I retired to gorgeous countryside here -- NOT because I approve of otiose, anti-democratic governance] left the club, the Commission and Council tried to sabotage British democracy. Referendums are very rare in the UK and are 1 person 1 vote for the UK as a union regardless of regions and the 4 separate jurisdictions. Any of the 4 has the freedom to form majorities to apply for EU membership any time but none could do it alone. Norway was never a member of the EU, nor is Iceland and it is probable that Greenland will opt to form trade and protection alliances. This will probably also occur in the Balkans and parts of Italy and Iberia accepted the Treaty of Rome but not that of Lisbon in practice -- mainly because the EU had an ethos of favouring German and Benelux interests as well as some French but was never equitable after Lisbon and the freedom of movement consequences, to the great detriment of poorer states such as Greece, southern Italy, some Black Sea states and ROI. Back to motor vehicles and emissions: the simple truth is that combusting hydrocarbons for any application gives rise to 4 main types of pollutant, taking an 'air' norm of pre-industrial levels where 'industrial' means the use of heat engines fueled by hydrocarbons. While the biosphere is moderately able to repair itself, a point is reached at which localized pollution in crowded areas affects organic health from simple life forms, humans, animal species and crops. Crop fall-off has been remedied by artificial fertilizers but the leaching of compounds and mixtures into water systems had the effect of high toxicity spreading across national borders or in the form of 'acid rain' in weather sub-systems. We saw this in the south or Nordic states emanating from intensive industry in central and east central Europe following clear patterns in the 1960s to the 1980s. Germany's careless use of lignite, oil and imported gas was an eco disaster and, cynically, offending plants tended to be sited in eastern Germany and near the Danish border. As electricity was generated mainly in this crude way the short period of German nuclear generation made little difference and that country's actual pollution point of origin remains unacceptably high. Stats are massaged to hide the truth but Germany/Poland/Czech Rep pollution at base level is excessive. It is therefore somewhat amusing that corporate Germany alongside the EU Commission and Council tinker wit automotive matters while disregarding the pollution from source in the generation of electricity for manufacture. Then when one analyses pollution and offset mitigations in such as EVs we enter a fantasy world of "zero pollution" at point of sale (with tax incentives in some countries) yet heavy EVs carry dangerous chemical batteries which are charged up by electricity from filthy souces. Note also that the grossly inefficient transport system from central Europe to deep water ports for export is not achieved using eco-friendly river barges -- but it makes a lot of money for French, Belgian and Dutch ports as well as the UK's string of large East Anglian ports whose capacity exceeds the 3 top Continental portage combined. The EU Commission's EURO 7 idea is unlikely to even be born for the following reasons: 1) hydrogen IC engines (gaseous or cell) will supplant EVs after a single generation (20 years from manufacture to landfill) as these engines have true capacity rather than torque and can be used in heavy vehicles as well as motor cars; 2) expensive mitigation as a path to zero emissions per vehicle will see the end of hydrocarbon ICs and EVs although hydrogen retrofitting of IC 'top engines' could be vital for heavy haulage and public transport without taking vehicle out of commission for long; 3) ammonia is a by product of many industrial processes and is being tested extensively in Asia because it is slightly easier to deliver to filling stations than hydrogen using current road tankers. However, it does not suit Otto cycle engines due to ignition temperature issues. 4) the EV path has at least helped to refine DC motors and Toyota's original hybrid Prius of 20+ years ago, Honda hybrids and now others. Vehicle manufacturers in the USA and parts of Europe were too late in pursuing hybrid vehicle production and design and, consequently, will make heavy losses in the short and medium term as a result. Charging ever higher prices for inferior designs packed with unnecessary and distracting electronics cannot make up for actual, clean and reliable private and public transport NEEDS rather than impositions and surveillance. The Achilles heel of software updates will disappear because products will be bought as fully working products as opposed to semi-owned "works in progress". It is time to ditch the very dubious ethic which plagues vehicular mobility. Cash offsets for pollution as used in the USA and especially Germany on our continent are cynical and harmful -- hence not being allowed in BRICS countries, southern Europe and Oceania as well as Japan and South Korea. Electricity generation for manufacturing anything has to be from renewables except in special circumstances and sealed SMRs can be used as base load fall-back in first world countries. There is no excuse for any rich country to burn hydrocarbons by the time "EURO 7" comes into force. Indeed, I doubt that the EU as it is in 2024 will even exist by then.

[@robertfonovic3551]

HI. just watched your presentation and found it both interesting, and informative. well done, subscribed.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Thank you, it means a lot. I'm glad that you enjoyed it

[@wickedleeloopy2115]

Unless the aviation & shipping industry complys 😮 cars dont use much fuel

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Well an individual car uses orders of magnitude lower amount of fuel than ships or planes, but there is more than a billion cars on the planet while only low tens of thousands of planes and large ships, so together cars produce more emissions than shipping and aviation

[@arifisa8828]

"Oh well lets go out and push the car home, zero emission" 🤦🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

[@rjones6219]

More sensors, more chance of one failing. Get readyto pay more.

[@robertlindsay9826]

What amazes me about Tesla. I think all of their cars are go fast ,gizmos?. Whats this go fast sickness all about ? Where can you use this thing without cop problems? In the desert? Sure build a few for the playboys in Monaco. But most of us just want too go from A too B with no drama. So it makes sense that a normal day too day car won't need huge expensive batteries, and hence more range

[@michaelbenardo5695]

They have already done that here in North America. They want us all to drive Jananiod tin cans or use public transit. I feel for you.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Yeah, the prophets of green paradise know what is best for us right

[@BughunterX]

Public transit, no shit?😉

[@chimera6990]

Just found the channel. Great video. You are criminally undersubbed

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Thank you, it means a lot! I also hope the channel will grow

[@WynnofThule]

If ICEs aren't clean to run, and EVs aren't clean to build...I'm starting to think you just can't win with cars

[@archimedesbird3439]

This is the uncomfortable truth, not to mention the amount of congestion they generate

[@MrAlkanet-nt9ic]

thats why i cant buy a new larger than 300cc maxi scooter any more, even though while riding it i pollute much less than solo car drivers (99% of cars nowadays)... but i must admit it is by far more enjoyable riding behind cars nowadays, than choking and coughing in a puff of giant cloud like smoke like 30 years ago

[@felawes]

EU will destry Mercedes and BMW.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

Mercedes and BMW might just destroy themselves.

[@dd4886]

All planned i suppose.

[@MiGujack3]

Nah, they will simply pull out from EU unless they manage to build a half decent EV

[@John64125]

@@MiGujack3They already do but there’s no money in EVs at this stage. They need to continue production of ICE cars to stay profitable. Destroying two great engineering companies isn’t good for anyone or anything. The car industry will be dominated by the Far East so we import more cars that have to be shipped round the world. Those people employed in the industry have to find new jobs! Etc etc.

[@robertdemeny251]

The quality of cars is affected by klima and environmental requirements in production. I had a Toyota RAV4 from 2020 to 2023. I bought it from new. In my time of ownership I had to change rear lights the times. They cracked. Toyota changed then under warranty, but was very open about the problem. They told me that environmental requirements in production had degraded the quality and durability of the plastic parts.

[@dagurorarinsson2827]

93 views is almost unfair

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Tough beginnings :) I'll be glad if you share it and spread the message

[@karasjosef]

Awesome video's, keep them coming!

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Glad you liked it. New video will drop soon!

[@cosf918]

The after market sector will wright software that can switch all the E7 bs off

[@unconventionaleconomics]

I guess that's possible but definitely illegal, so I doubt how widespread would it get

[@doggodproductions2259]

I'm sure they will, but it's already been getting more and more difficult to break the security measures on modern ECUs and DMEs. Unlocking these new DME's is just crazy technical. I have a '21 BMW M2 CS (manual), and the process to unlock the Bosch DME literally involves physically sending the DME to Scandinavia and having it unlocked by some computer wizard that somehow has the digital "unlock key". It's insane, and i'm not even talking with an ounce of hyperbole. Apparently if my car had been built before June, 2020, it would have still been capable of a fairly typical bench-unlock, but that's when Bosch implemented the new security. I seriously wonder if it's even legal in the US, with "Right to Repair" laws and stuff like that. It's my only "modern" car, all of my other cars, typically unlocking the ECU/DME was as simple as plugging in to the OBD2 port. Not so much, these days. It's only gonna get more ridiculous, too. Apparently the alternative method for my M2 CS DME unlock to is find a separate DME from the same car, so presumably a crashed CS or Competition from before 6/2020 (which there aren't a lot of), and then have my car's DME "cloned" onto that older DME that doesn't have the crazy software. So then I would run the unlocked, "cloned" DME in my car, being able to freely tune it how I want, and then have the original locked DME as an extra(for dealer visits, most likely). So you have to buy a whole separate DME to be able to have a fully unlocked one. It's just kinda ridiculous. Really drives me a little nuts.

[@andybrowne2117]

A SPY IN THE CAR ! WAIT TILL A BARISTER GET A WARMING !.

[@hgv1883]

I was under the impression that synthetic fuels would sort these problems out how far are we away from synthetic fuels ?????????

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Well they really do not seem as a near-future solution. Experimental production in a lab is one thing. Getting to required global production capacity at a reasonable cost is another. Moreover, you would really need close to zero emission electricity to produce it in order to make sense even from the perspective of CO2. So by 2035 it's absolutely not gonna happen.

[@flightsimdev9021]

I can see a future in Europe, where everyone is on a pushbike because ICE cars won't be available, and the power networks will be in blackouts daily and EV stuck out of charge on the side of the roads.

[@mrx168]

I rather keep driving my 2006 Euro 3 car for another decade than get into any of these new crap…

[@frozenman82]

I drive 16 years old 1.9 TDI (Euro4), just because it’s cheap to run and maintain.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Yep, I can totally understand that . Repairs on the newer cars tend to be more expensive, and if your old cars runs just fine, you have very little incentive to change it

[@redpill4431]

If they are so concerned about emissions, then they should worry about the asbestos in the atmosphere that goes arround the globe

[@johnkeen2345]

You can only go so far with this tech before you make cars more unreliable and costly. As Scotty said: You canny change the laws of physics captain....

[@mrrolandlawrence]

9:42 what new petrol car can you buy for 12,000 euros? and euro 7 does nothing to curb the sales of 3 ton SUV tanks on the road. car companies have been fiddling the standards for years. clarkson once said at the testing, the manufacturer just turned off the engine when passing the decibel meter as technically they were driving at 40kph... or the stop start system that during testing just turns off the engine for 15 minutes on the lab stand bringing the average emission down. VW had the best emissions fiddle of all. so no i dont feel sorry for the car makers. asbestos is still a thing in brake pads. that and other horrible materials is what killed a member of my family who worked in the auto industry.

[@alkaholic4848]

This is ridiculous. Is there any way we can protest this? For all the reasons pointed out in this video, plus EVs aren't the answer, they're currently not any better for the environment than ICEs, and even if they ever do it'll only ever make a marginal difference, and are completely impractical for most people.

[@AndyAndy-bg7mv]

we are doomed all doomed

[@mikemikeson5103]

Nice video🎉👍🏻

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Thank you, hope it was informative :)

[@gregoriousgilbert519]

My fazer600 is 26 years young in 2024, so by 2035 she will be 51years.... I will not comply to this crapppppp....

[@gregoriousgilbert519]

26 + 11 years will make my bike 37 years.. So got awile yret.. take it with a grain of salt..

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Yeah, I can imagine that bikers are not happy about the regulation either 😀

[@royalcrowntowing2464]

We need ro ask any politician who is in power or is campaigning to get in power are you going to ban internal combustion cars if the answer is not a straight NO then vote them out or don't vote for that person

[@alkaholic4848]

Yeah this is the answer, people need to wake up and start putting pressure on the politicians to backpedal on the ridiculous enforced-EV targets.

[@Souchirouu]

The standard is fine it's the lack of an unified approach and the need to squeeze as much profit from ever step in the supply chain that is the bottle neck. That is why all the Chinese car makers kick our asses. In our cars every single screw, panel, switch or plastic cover needs to make someone as much profit as possible. Of course you're not going to be competitive if you do that :|

[@wobblybobengland]

They loosened the regs in November 2023

[@mikemikeson5103]

Easy solution do not buy a euro7 car.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Well but you cannot choose, once its implemented, all new cars will have to abide by the regulation, so not buying a euro7 would mean not buying a new car…ever

[@ghostinthemachine76]

@@unconventionaleconomics Look after your old car.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Yeah no kidding, if it really comes to the ban, the early 30's will probably see a shopping spree for new ICE cars and then a rapid cooldown

[@educationaltvshows9950]

2035 an EV drives 1000km in one go and cost same as ICE. So no need to buy E7 cars. Maybe exept hauling transport: trucks, buses, trains..

[@Matt_from_Florida]

​@@unconventionaleconomics First time I saw someone refer to the 30's and meant *2030s,* not the 1930s!!! (I think I've overstayed my welcome on this planet)

[@jpjp07]

Joke all of this we know they know only idiots don't that's the truth

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Well some people don’t know how bad it can be, so hopefully this reaches some of those

[@vivolimo1137]

Yeah fearmongering on its peak, with no sources provided.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Oh really? Enlighten me on which arguments were distorting the reality? Some parts (like to OBM) are speculative by necessity, because certain specifics and methodologies were not yet revealed by the EC at that time

[@jeczsz]

Its not suicide they want electic cars to rule

[@davidrte.664]

Looks like they will be going back to horses. Measure those emissions.

[@billynomates920]

that's not it's aim, that's it's stated aim. it's real aim is what the tin foilers are telling us.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Yes, you have to wonder whether its incompetence or maliciousness. I guess you would find both in the EU bureaucracy

[@chrisedwards196]

I'd like to see the data that claims automatic transmissions are more fuel efficient than manual. In my experience the automatic gearbox is much heavier which obviously means more weight to propel, plus the fluid flywheel/torque converter slips on average around 12-14% with some bigger applications like the larger diesels going up to 20% slip. In comparison to the almost negligible 1-2% slip of a manual clutch I honestly can't see the auto being more fuel efficient. The only advantage I could see is the reduced particulates from not having a dry fiber clutch plate & maybe a higher top gear ratio as is the case with the Mitsubishi Shogun auto.

[@christophevervecken1370]

Are we sure Euro 7 is better then Euro A3?

[@unconventionaleconomics]

As far as particle emissions go, then yes :)

[@lzh4950]

I still remember back when my country's public buses (Volvo B10M MkIV) 'proudly' displayed a "Euro 1" badge

[@Unwavering_Resolve]

Meanwhile I'm driving my EV around for free. I don't know what all the fuss is about.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

You are not driving your EV for free unless your country has free electricity. And even then, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Also, if you received a subsidy, the taxpayers helped to pay for your car

[@Unwavering_Resolve]

@@unconventionaleconomics solar panels baby! (Yeah of course I had to pay for the panels and their installation but now the electricity is free!) And no subsidy for me I didn't get an allocation 😭

[@robertwilkinson2232]

Europe's doing all this. How many ulez zones in bejing Delhi and Moscow they coudnt care less about the environment

[@unconventionaleconomics]

I guess they breathe a different atmosphere right ? :D

[@smeghead760]

Electric tanks ?

[@catapfract]

Prepare for civil unrest and f EU....soon tax fo co2 from breathing...

[@unconventionaleconomics]

The Euro-parliament elections are in 2 weeks, probably the best chance to make some changes

[@harlandingessjr952]

If you Really want to tackle air pollution,Look at these big smoke stcks going DIRECTLY into the clouds from major corps,mega yackts,(fyi,i love looking at them),all these bombs and crapt spewing all this crapt in the air.Are car and truck emissions (really the true problem)? point made

[@MR_THINQ]

For info : THE EU ISN’T EUROPE! The EU has only 22 European countries in it, there are over 100 European countries.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Yeah the EU does not include all of Europe, but it has 27 member states (since Britain left) not 22, and the entire Europe does not have over 100 countries but slightly over 40, depending what you count. Based on population, EU contains the majority of European population

[@Jacky5299]

Europe has over a hundred countries, please take a look at an atlas.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

So you mean Europe contains half of the entire world ? :D I am talking about countries, not regions or provinces. Sure, Germany for example has 16 so-called Bundesländer, and most other countries are subdivided into regions which have local governments with varying degree of power, but they are still one country with one central government, and that is what we are talking about here.

[@supernanny8375]

@@Jacky5299 Learn the difference between state and country. Greetings from Germany

[@yesyoureright]

In the uk we have NOTHING. beat that.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Dodged the bullet on this one 😀

[@MummaBear]

" how can we kill the European car market?" 😢

[@wobblybobengland]

and goods vehicles

[@dimarg00]

This has nothing to do with the environment. It's all because car manufacturers want to keep their high income.. So they have to force people to buy new cars even if there is nothing wrong with the cars they have now. Guess what will happen if every car was reliable and noone had to buy a new one. And yes, Europe can produce reliability but it's not in their benefit. Compared to S. Korea and Japan who have different approach to the buyer. Where they focus on reliability, efficiency and value for money.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

The manufacturers are not behind this, they are the biggest protesters against it. This is coming from the heads of politicians. But you are right that the Japanese and South Koreans are very diligent when it comes to reliability.

EV will be at better alternative. Chinese EV will arrive strong.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Chinese EV's are already arriving quite strong, but that is also not good news for European industry

[@davidcolin6519]

No. Europe isn't killing its own car industry. It's own car industry is incapabel of dealing with a disruptive change to its own model, in spite of having had about 10 years to adjust. 10 years ago, the Chinese automi¡otive industry wasn't just a bit of a joke, it was the automotive industry's running joke. And the European car industry was told that it would need to switch away from Internal Combustion Engines. But the European car industry did less than nothing about such a large switchover of motive power. They even ignored Tesla, which was already making inroads into their home markets. 7 years later, we had Tesla with a near complete range of BEVs, the Koreans showing that it was possible to have BEVs working well in a unified ICE/hybrid/BEV platform, the Chinese companies now showing serious improvements and employing industry-standard designers... while the Europeans stood around and fiddled. And now we have European car company leaders making all sorts of BS claims; "We can't make a BEV for less than €40K" (in spite of one of their subsidiaries showing a BEV that could be sold for €20K - the same month that the CEO said it was impossible for less than dounle that!), or that "exceptions need to be made" (German manufacturers) etc.... and China now has a market dominant position on advanced battery tech, their cars are better than all but Tesla (who buy their batteries) and now we're blaming the EU? How could this POSSIBLY be the fault of the European Parliament? This take on the situation is like the US news media blaming the Dems for the fact that the GOP can't hold its own party together long enough to vote for a SPEAKER!

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Wow, thank you for taking the time to write such a long rant. I would just remind that the video was not about electric cars but about Euro 7. When it comes to electric cars, it is not just a problem of Europe, but also North America. As far as I know, the only really successful American EV is Tesla, which is not exactly known for its cheapness, and it is quite a miracle that it survived after being on the brink of bankruptcy a few times. So the question is what does China differently than the West. There is too much to unpack for a comment. I would agree with you that partially it is on the industry, not only the automobile industry but the Western companies in general relied too heavily on cheap emerging markets and now are paying the price, for example with the battery technology. But they also have the advantage of much lower labor cost (yes, much of the European cars and parts are still made in Europe), much cheaper (and dirtier) energy, which is also significant. The European politicians made this even worse through emissions allowances, which is an additional cost. The industry representatives are exaggerating to some degree, it is kind of their job. But saying that they could have almost as cheap EVs as in China in a few years only if they wanted would also be ignoring the circumstances.

[@davidcolin6519]

@@unconventionaleconomics I don't think it was a rant, it waasn't intended to be, just tried to make it informative. I did realise that it wasn't intended to be just about cars, but that is where my interest lies, or rather, the technology involved in making them both longer lasting and with a longer range. I am also interested in urban planning, but there is nothing that I can say that hasn't been said by NotJustBikes.

[@janosnagy3096]

Politicians and unelected EUSSR eurocrats are killing the car industry, but not just that. You say EVs? They aren't preparing for that either - in fact they are SHUTTING DOWN power plants. Electricity production goes down year after year. And with stupid environmental regulations they are also killing every kind of industry, including the construction industry, whilst inviting millions of civilizationally incompatible barbarians into Europe with open arms each year. The point is to impoverish Europeans as much as possible to better control them. They want them to have to depend on the state for everything. Freedom of movement with a car? Forget it! Take the bus! If there is one ... Owning a home ? No chance, even if you inherit one, you'll have to pay such an inheritance tax that you'll have to sell it... but actuaílly we won't let you sell it either, because to sell the house it has to comply with the new environmental norms. And those norms are explicitly written so that very few existing houses comply, so you'll have to spend a fortune on it just to be able to sell it to be able to pay the inheritance tax on it. Or you can just let daddy state take care of things and seize your inherited house. Remember: "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy"... And if you complain, your China-style social credit (which they are starting to implement) will get downgraded or your 'digital Euros' (which they are working on) will get locked. EU is turning into a Chinese style dictatorship. But it's ok if they justify it with "climate change". The 2024 EU elections are possibly the last opportunity to stop this suicidal madness in Europe. As a German opposition leader very wisely said : 'This EU Must Die for the Real Europe to Live'

[@unconventionaleconomics]

By rant I meant that you are clearly passionate when it comes to this issue. You are clearly afraid that complacency of the industry will halt progress and environmental improvement, which is certainly a justified fear, which I share. However, I am also afraid that perhaps well-intentioned regulations will either be counterproductive when it comes to the environment itself, or that it will achieve this goal at a great cost to the standard of living of regular people

[@TheJon2442]

EVs... When recharged by lignite coal, as per in Germany... The politicians think that binning nuclear and adopting part time energy sources are the way to go..... Buy hey EVs are not selling too well now. I wonder why, actually that is not true!

[@dd4886]

Imagine paying almost the full (depreciated) price of an EV in 10 years time to replace just one component aka the battery lol! That is without taking into account the increased tyre and break pad replacement costs due to more frequent wear....

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Yep, and the problem for secondary market is that you have a problem telling how much is the battery damaged, which does not add to trust

[@dd4886]

@@unconventionaleconomics Facts!🙌

[@alkaholic4848]

They're 50% heavier than ICE anyway, so they take 50% more power to move them around. And currently that power still comes from fossil fuel burning plants, so they're possibly worse. That's before you even start on issues like transmission losses, storage, heating, etc. And then there's the issue that most people don't have a driveway to charge them on. And the issue that if they ever went mainstream, the uncontrollable battery fires would eventually burn all the buildings to the ground 😂

[@archimedesbird3439]

EV cars would weigh as much or less than the current ICE SUVs that still only ferry around a single person And with regenerative braking EVs barely use their brakes, too

[@unconventionaleconomics]

@@archimedesbird3439 But that is not a very fair comparison, you should compare medium-sized EV vs medium-sized ICE, and SUV EV vs SUV ICE. And the fact that you usually have one person in a car is also the same for both. I agree with the brakes though, they are less of an issue even despite the weight

[@tmafungo84]

Masochists 😢

[@unconventionaleconomics]

You could say so 😅but masochists like hurting themselves, here the politicians are hurting the population, so it's rather sadistic

[@tmafungo84]

@@unconventionaleconomics More like sado-masochism

[@unconventionaleconomics]

@@tmafungo84 Yeah, that's most accurate

[@paulwatson6013]

Do EVs have to factor in their tyre wear as well. They are generally harder on tyre wear than ICE cars! The aftermarket parts industry will love this. Hang on to old vehicles for longer.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Yes the tyre and break emission regulation is targeting EV's also. Conforming to that regulation might mean that they will have to trade off tyre emissions for other characteristics, which may endanger safety. Given how low the tyre emissions are, that seems like a stupid plan.

[@geirvinje2556]

Why is it OK to make people sick by poluting? We have electric cars, and the car companies can start to make them. Norway sells 87% EV, and 1/4 of the cars on the road. Norway are on track to only sell electric cars in 2025. Euro 7 will probably not be relevant in Norway. Only motorcycles and truck, maybe. Lots of trucks are already electric... And, gas stations are changing names to energy stations, or are shut down.

[@unconventionaleconomics]

This kind of oversimplified logic is exactly the problem. You use Norway as an example, which is both 1) Among Top 5 richest countries in the world (per capita). 2) One of the few countries where basically all electricity is made from renewable sources (having the longest coastline in the world while having a tiny population makes it much easier with hydropower). So yes, if every country in the world was as rich as Norway, it would be much simpler. But you cannot completely ignore the economic constraint. And replacing ICE's with EV's obviously requires higher consumption of electricity. In countries where the majority of electricity is generated in coal plants (like in Poland), EV's make little difference. The pollution from car exhaust would just be replaced by the pollution from the coal plant chimney. Nobody wants additional pollution from cars, but these huge transitions require time.

[@geirvinje2556]

@@unconventionaleconomics if you convert all the vehicles in Norway to electric you need 5% more electrictrisity. If you compare this to the US, it's the increase of 3 years. Oil subsidies are $7.000.000.000.000. This hide the fact that transporting, pumping, refining, cracking, and recombing oil, waste a lot of energy. Just look at the law of termo dynamics. So, then it's actually better to use a powerplant to convert the raw oil to electrictrisity. It's probably better to use the power you use to refine oil to power electric cars than refining it. And, more and more of the oil industry are using cheap renewable energy, any way. And why not do as Norway? Build renewables, and then if you have oil and gas sell it abroad. You can even make a big fond for the people to enjoy?

[@unconventionaleconomics]

​@@geirvinje2556 I guess you're citing the IMF 7 trillion estimation, but out of it 80% is implicit subsidy, which is kind of a bulls*** way to make it seem more dramatic. I am not advocating oil subsidies by the way. However, even with 100% EV's you still have to retain large share of oil for now, because all plastics are made out of it, as well as synthetic rubber. Factories that require achieving very large temperatures also need to use fossil fuels. Airplanes and large ships are also not viable without it. I am not saying these things cannot change in the future, in fact, I hope the technology will improve soon enough. Even if the efficiency of oil burning power plants would higher than that of the ICE's, having a lot of dirty sources in electricity production would cancel out large amount of the "cleanliness" of the EV's. Apart from that, since EV's are much heavier, they produce more emissions from tyres and brakes. The batteries are made from rare metals, mining of which is also not environmentally friendly. This is not to say that EV's are bad, just that these side effects might not be worth it if your electricity production is mostly coal-based. I hope countries will more to cleaner energy, but for that purpose most countries would have to start/expand nuclear energy while slowly adding wind and solar. For 100% wind/solar there isn't the battery technology (yet) to deal with the huge volatility, and most countries do not have large coastlines like Norway to build incredible amount of hydropower. But the main point of the video is this: Even if countries had 100% clean energy, it will not help if people will not buy the EV's because they cannot afford them. They are still more expensive that ICE cars, the upkeep is more expensive because of the batteries, and there is no used EV's secondary market yet. I am technology optimist and I am quite sure that these things will change in the not so distant future. You just cannot declare something, put in place a new regulation and think that all problems will magically disappear

[@geirvinje2556]

@@unconventionaleconomics We have the raw materials to make plastic. Our oceans are full of plastic we can recycle. And we can use organic oil, to do the rest. If you put up solar panels in the field instead of corn to make the ethanol to put into gas. You can drive an electric car 70 times longer. (100% ethanol). If you use deserts you can grow crops under, for oil. Then you can get the best of bought worlds. Regarding batteries. Cobalt has always been in the news. First not all batteries needs Cobalt, and second, the oil industry uses Cobalt to clean out sulphur. The latter don't recycle it. Yes, electric cars needs to come down in price. When VW now stops selling fossile cars this year in Norway, they are planing to be more aggressive regarding prices. The battery war between the US, and China are ramping up. This is bad in the shout run, but will be the beginning of a price war, that will make electric cars mutch cheaper. The industry has a big problem, regarding electric cars. They have a potential of beeing 1/3 of the price. So, there will be lots of people losing their jobs. Mining: yes, mining is a dirty business. But, because coal mines are closing more and more, there will be an environmental gain.

[@danielkuleshov5876]

process of making ev cars involves polluting air so much , average car cannot pollute in 2mln miles (3.5 mln km)

[@Mantaracer]

Time to make a complete change to EVs! ⚡

[@BenWharfe-vr1pn]

Go for it🤣🤣

[@unconventionaleconomics]

Time for some rationality to be brought back into EU

[@TheJon2442]

I fully agree, if you only have one car. And only use part time energy sources to recharge. Otherwise you are a worse polluter than those who have a non VW diesel! It's not the pollution it's how it's recorded!!!!!!!!!!!