European Referendum | Kenneth Williams | Daytime | 1985

Britain has always had a difficult relationship with being a member of Europe. In 1985 Thames TV's Debate show ' Daytime' including special guest Kenneth Williams, discuss the UK's place in the EEC.
First Broadcast 29/01/1985

[@Simple1Jack]

Kenneth Williams: _”Ooooooh_ Macron!”

[@locouk]

Matron..

[@rickdeckard723]

@@locouk ...@Tugg Speedman knew what he meant :D :D XD

[@rickdeckard723]

...LoLoLoL XD :D

[@Stonka1]

Macron is the president of France

[@scotty20040]

Green Silver have a day off mate.

[@RetroGod1982]

Everybody is much more civilised in this debate compared to today. No hatred.

[@mattfm101]

Look at the demographics, we didn't seem to realise what made our country great was us. I think the lack of internet helped the naive sentiment we held then that everyone is the same as us and we all want the same thing, when upon retrospect that was a very idealistic way to think, rather than pragmatic. I hope to god our immigration is limited very soon, it makes me upset to see what we use to be, multiculturalism is the death of any people and country, it isn't a good thing.

[@curryandapint]

I'm not sure there's hatred - only 30 years of progressive pro-EU propaganda. And people are fed up of it (unless they believe the propoganda)

[@mattfm101]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards It seems the debate skills of the 'intellectual' class has devolved to accusing natives of being racist and little Englanders while ignoring that this is their home, their livelihoods and that this is only a little island. We can't keep bringing people in without destroying the very thing that made our country great, us. There is no debate on this as its based on observable reality. You can't have Japan populated by Indians and still expect it to feel or even operate like Japan.

[@mbrook6807]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards It's also to do with the fact that conflict sells. People find it more interesting to watch a heated argument. People don't want to know anything, just look at the most commonly viewed youtube videos. That being said there should be more of an emphasis on informing the public by the bbc, itv sky etc.

[@marknoname3126]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards The pathetic, intellectually vacant recourse of the socialist, racist and Nazi, socialists haven't changed. I suppose you'd have to be mentally deficient to think socialism is a viable governing option despite its 100% failure rate.

[@davidhawk9678]

a far cry from the type of audience found nowadays

[@firestormlivingsolutions]

1985 ....wow

[@michaeljames87]

Just said the same to my friend. No discussion, just finger pointing, screaming and shouting

[@edmundsveikutis1698]

2 to 1 even then.

[@rachelkingsley668]

Shows how quickly our culture has been destroyed ... the long march through the institutions

[@royhypnol3735]

@@rachelkingsley668 I love Kenneth Williams, It was him and a great deal of encouragement from my dear wife, that inspired me to become a Homosexual. I am a regular in the bushes on Hampstead Heath for the last 52 years!

[@michaelmorris2300]

This was in 1985. Now in 2019, it seems as though labour and conservatives have swapped positions completely!

[@poleaxed6447]

Interestingly I saw an interview on this site where they said one of the reasons they conservatives ousted Thatcher was because she wanted to have a referendum on whether to leave the EU.

[@katyb6979]

Maybe those were the days when labour actually were for the working man (and woman), instead of pandering to minorities and treating the working class with utter distain?

[@xanderathome]

Didpends who is the ticket conductor on the gravy train

[@michaelmorris2300]

@@katyb6979 pandering to minorities... Explain.

[@johnstatham6490]

@@katyb6979 good on you girl free speech means we can criticize anyone we like.

[@Sawrattan]

Back when French and Italian were the most 'foreign' you got :)

[@michaeljames87]

right

[@dhalsim-1]

Still are..

[@kahyui2486]

Not true at all. This was 1985. There was already mass immigration from India and Jamaica. At least educate yourself 💀. There was hardly any French and Italians in the UK. Indians and Jamaicans was too busy working as nurses and bus drivers to come to futile debates like this

[@JurassicPlank]

Back in the day when you had to go to BBC elocution lessons to be presenter.

[@bossdemon]

Bring it back, I say. There's a reason for RP English and you see it everywhere these days. Grown men and women are now called "Hey guys". Instead of "You're welcome" it's "No worries, guys" like we're some kind of Australian Aboriginals. It's just a basic lack of discipline and confidence in British people. We have allowed standards to slip. It's that simple. And it's a consequence of the economy being so open that we have allowed so many external influences to direct our way of life.

[@dac545j]

To be "a" presenter.

[@digitalmediafan]

@@bossdemon it's too much American influence of course. Hey Guys is meant to be friendly but really it's just sloppy American slang we copied along with all their other expressions

[@anthonyeckersley4190]

Britishness diluted because everybody from OTHER countries ALL wanted a piece of it. If you could bottle Britishness, worth more than gold.

[@digitalmediafan]

@BrackynMor you litteraly can't understsnd what they are saying?

[@Matelot123]

Kenneth Williams - "We're in for good. You'll never get anyone going backwards on that." How wrong he was.

[@multiplyx100]

Ironically that British stupidity that couldn't see the benefits of the EU wasn't diluted by membership of the EU. People are still as 'British' as they always were. All it took to get us out was a nudge over the edge at the wrong time by a couple of media barons who stood to benefit personally. Some things are very resistant to change.

[@Matelot123]

@@multiplyx100 It isn't all about money and the benefits of being a member you know. Some people just don't want it. It isn't about racism or being too thick to see the benefits of membership or xenophobia or any of that crap. Most people who voted Brexit probably did so because like me they would just rather not be in that club and would prefer to be run by us for us with no outside involvement. If it's such a benefit to be in and a loss to us to be out why didn't the EU just let us go?

[@jumbomills1272]

multiplyx100 A lot of British people were not getting any benefits or subsidies. The greedy people at the top take all the cash.

[@curiositypiqued6573]

Sadly

[@LOTPOR0402]

Yeh but was he .Under the impression that if we leave with a deal we will still be tied to EU

[@donaldking6076]

This is what Kenneth Williams wrote in his diary on January 29th 1985: 'Armed with information I went to Thames TV to take part in the EEC debate. Had quite a few facts to counter some of the crap from a Labour Euro MP.' Thirty-three years ago, the Labour left were anti-European and the Tories more pro-European. Apart from that, the whole European question has and always will be an incredible bore. Whether we are 'in' or 'out' will make a great deal less difference than some people imagine. Here, in 1985, people are discussing the result of a REFERENDUM that was held a DECADE before! Roll on, 2026 - and the 'debate' about Europe will still be running. Like the Middle East question, which started causing wars in Bible days and has not yet been 'solved.'

[@Iazzaboyce]

I immediately thought '2026' he's an egotist - he chose that year because he was born in 1926. I checked Wikipedia and sure enough, he was born in 1926 (same year as my Dad). I've never trusted the word of people who see the world orbiting themselves.

[@deputyvanhalen6386]

"In for me...in for me ...they've all got it in for me!"

[@teddingtonbear3265]

excellent.

[@tonylawless3504]

Infamy

[@stub1256]

Seems like a well balanced programme and discussion.I miss that! Hysteria and extreme emotion is the basis of all discussion now.

[@ChancellorOfTheSpellchecker]

Blame the libtards.

[@CoffeeConnected]

Even back then they were conflating Europe and the EU together as one singular thing. Although back then it was referred to as the EEC not the European Union. Just because you're not in favour of the EU (EEC) that doesn't make you anti-European.

[@mrsmith9031]

In the end even the most intelectual, anti EU folks, are anti European, Rees mogg said Romanians and Brits "are just not the shame", Boris said, they are not like us, in the end we are far more like the average German or Belgian or Frenchm,an, than the Tory elite, in the end it is all about they are not like us, and in the end it was all about hatred and division, a dreadful step backwards a shameful act by the BRITISH PEOPLE, happily not the Scots,

[@Urko2005]

MOST of us leave voters dotn have an issue with European people, we do with a dictatorship political union though.

[@matthewnevin9156]

@@mrsmith9031 Bullshit, if you like them so much, then you should leave. We are clearly not like the Europeans. How is it shameful to want to run our own country? The EU has changed a lot since then. The only argument iv'e actually seen from you vile remainers, are baseless ad hominem attacks. Not at any point did you make the case for why we would be better as a united states of Europe, you just tried to pretend it was an inconsequential trading club. Well the British people seen through your lies and there's no shame in that.

[@derekc6445]

@@mrsmith9031 Different people's of Europe doesn't mean the hatred of each other. I think people admire each other's cultures enough to visit for holidays. Migrants who expect a countries people to change to accommodate them should be made unwelcome.

[@derekc6445]

@M A Being Anti-EU doesn't necessarily mean that you are Anti-european. I like our European neighbours yet I do not like the EU. I have Polish and Spanish work mates who also don't like what the EU has done to their countries.

[@jjwebster1]

It's good to see the art of having the illusion of having a debate while not actually having one isn't something new on television.

[@redghost6386]

Very bad acting in those days from the audience if you ask me.

[@herrfister1477]

MEanME Izzard isn’t trans anything!

[@JoeStudd96]

What a brilliant programme, we could've done with this in 2016. I don't say that meaning that I hoped we voted to stay (though personally I voted to remain), but this programming is much more balanced and informative than any shite we've had in recent years. The public nowadays are perpetually afflicted with hyperbolic statements that tell them what to think, rather than give them the full facts and let them make up their own mind.

[@benwakefield93]

To be fair, from what I remember, the press prior to the referendum was pretty balanced. It was only after the result that it went AWOL.

[@normannormiemates4844]

Back in the days when the EEC was just about trade.

[@craig581]

That's what people were led to believe. These remainers who said that we were conned into voting leave, should take a look at this time and understand that they were conned into joining a common market that would later become a union.

[@GARdotETH]

....and harmonisation 😒 They should have known then what was going to happen. A monster in the making.

[@CoffeeConnected]

Interesting though that even back then in the media you can detect a kind of attitude where it's felt as if you ought to be loyal to the EEC (Now the EU). Where as you say it was just about trade even here it is implied that it's about more than just trade. They're talking about where you place your loyalties. As soon as you're forced to answer that question it's probably the time to get the hell out of such an arrangement.

[@GARdotETH]

@@The86rick we did get it though! It was created for trade, NOT a Political Union. You can spin it anyway you want, but the people of this country were constantly misled, not necessarily by the EU, but by our own politicians who didn't explain to us at the different stages as it turned from a trading block into a Political Union.

[@enzinobombolini5369]

HOW TO DO THIS exactly. When the UK joined accepted the treaty of Rome , which since the preamble states the political objectives of the EU that the other member states accepted and continue to accept.

[@S7EVE_P]

Ultimately it makes no difference to most people - we'll still get ripped off by those at the top and the rich will still carry on getting richer.

[@bens1972]

Steve Powell that's internal politics not the EU

[@jayh9529]

This is how they get a rise

[@stevkyt2374]

Oh the envy. You seem to have a problem.

[@jayh9529]

stevkyt Epstein

[@LOTPOR0402]

@@bens1972 Its the same all over the world .The rich gets richer the poorer get poorer .The minions were never meant to have lots of money.There is no need for people to be earning millions while others are on minimum wage

[@christopherwhitehead8946]

This was recorded before the Maastricht treaty changed the EEC into the EU. Big difference. The EEC was an organisation to help all the member countries trade together. The EU is a very different political project altogether.

[@colincampbell3679]

Yes the EU.. is closer to how the Nazi's wish to rule by force over anyone they wished to? Do as we say or else be fined and beaten down. You notice how the Germans are the main controlling one in the EU. sure there's something like that in our history in Europe.

[@gaycha6589]

Good point

[@madamedellaporte4214]

@@colincampbell3679 BOLLOCKS

[@truthlifefishing1730]

The EEC was the bait, the EU was the hook. Always there, hidden, waiting and deadly.

[@mickeythompson9537]

Nope. Everything was made clear in the 72 referendum. Watch did change, however, were the EU anti-money-laundering rules... and that's why our elites dragged us out. That, and Putin wanting to split the EU. Backfired on him, but well screwed us up.

[@paulspydar]

just look at the audience & how different it would look if this was filmed today, Amazing the change,

[@eddiesid1149]

Demographics is destiny.

[@RogerMelodicMusic]

Yes the hairstyles, the clothes, the big spectacles, it all looks pretty awful now looking back on it but it seemed perfectly normal at the time

[@lewisner]

Williams says "I was active in the referendum should we go in or not". There was no referendum on whether to join the EU. The 1975 referendum was on whether to stay members of the EEC.

[@johndavies802]

lewisner I

[@andrewmartin6445]

Correct.

[@j.dmetalhead7517]

Boy didn't the British public get royaly screwed over that one.

[@lewisner]

@@j.dmetalhead7517 They allowed themselves to be screwed. Opinion polls at the time suggested there was a majority in favour of leaving the EEC but when Harold Wilson swung the Labour party behind Remain, loyal Labour voters followed.

[@Drobium77]

Kenneth emphasized that it was a 'trading block' and yes he was right, it 'was' a trading block. But now the EU is an empire, and fits that definition perfectly. I'd love for us to be an outward looking trading block, I can't imagine anyone would disagree. The EU is doing exactly what the East India company did, first start a trading block, then take more and more control, until the whole country is governed by Britain. And quell any discourse with violence. The EU is very much wrong in its approach, and needs to leave it's imperial notions behind, if it's to survive.

[@ugugmug]

Drobium77 Ok boomer

[@Drobium77]

@@ugugmug OK idiot, i'm not a boomer, i'm an Xennial ..... >

[@aristeon5908]

You're a lying ignorant brainwashed zombie.

[@aristeon5908]

@A A You idiot, there are plenty of reasons to criticize the EU but this right-wing drivel filled with lies isn't. Indeed I'm pro EU, critical of some aspects of the EU, but I can have a decent debate with ppl who actually have reasonable informed arguments against the EU. The EU is not a dogma. But nowadays, it's all conspiracy theories and lies, one could basically use this strategy to attack anything, the EU, the UK, capitalism, socialism, anything, just lie, slander, hate, instead of trying to understand reality and reaching conclusions in a rational way. Indeed, Bojo is the right person to lead this circus of liars that lil' England has become.

[@curiositypiqued6573]

Drobium77 So you support violence???? Whats next??. To make britain america no. 2 and KILL EM ALL?? 🤣 🤣

[@NoosaHeads]

Bob Cryer - 1934-1994. Was a strong Eurosceptic. He was proven right.

[@nativenewlondoner]

All of these interesting opinions expressed, and not a single one of the people saying like, like, like, like every third word.

[@naturalbornchiller158]

When people were taught how to think. It’s just regurgitation these days.

[@kahyui2486]

@@naturalbornchiller158 people are more intelligent now than then. It's not my opinion, it's a fact.

[@highgreen6452]

God I miss 1980s England

[@mogznwaz]

Me too. It was the best time

[@SelfReflective]

@@mogznwaz Weren't you young then?

[@warricktyler6759]

A common Market . How much it has changed since this .

[@melvyncox3361]

Good debate,and very elocutely presented by Sarah Kennedy.Thing is,we as a nation have totally lost our identity,and seem to cater to the lowest common denominator. Time have certainly changed since this programme was aired...

[@JoeRivermanSongwriter]

Thank God we're no longer divided on Europe.

[@aaronwalderslade]

The audience you see here is now invisible. But not at the ballot box.

[@RoadRunnerLaser]

20:16 - As much as I love Kenneth Williams, he was out and out WRONG when he said that no-one would "come back". I think we've just had a very clear demonstration that the majority do want to "come back".

[@haydenharris3059]

RoadRunnerLaser But The result was announced on the morning of 24 June: 51.89% voted in favour of leaving the EU, and 48.11% voted in favour of remaining a member of the EU. After the result was declared, Cameron announced that he would resign by October. With respect it was too close to take seriously especially as there was no quantifiable affect.

[@RoadRunnerLaser]

Hayden Harris - WIth respect, your comment is too absurd to be taken seriously. It was a majority. Such a majority in a general election would not be contested. The recent European Parliament elections in which the Brexit Party wiped the floor with the remainers cemented that majority. The even more recent general election just slammed that point home because the remainers were given their marching orders. How many more elections do you want before you'll take it seriously? Until you get the one which matches your own views?

[@haydenharris3059]

@@RoadRunnerLaser would you buy a business without understanding how it works.?

[@RoadRunnerLaser]

Hayden Harris - I would hope not. I like to make informed decisions which is why, when the referendum on Brexit was held, I did not vote because I felt at the time that I did not have enough information to make an informed decision. Having seen how the left, the globalists, and the EU have conducted themselves, I know on which side of the fence I sit. Would I buy a business which had sleeping partners which set the rules and would not allow me to make decisions? Almost certainly not. Would you?

[@haydenharris3059]

@@RoadRunnerLaser Thanks for your reply. Its not with respect how any political actors behave, it's all about the unknown and how that may affect the general public. I wish us all luck. Merry Christmas Hayden

[@Phil-yn1er]

I wonder if the debate would have been different if millions of refugees flooded in the year before?

[@NLT31]

There have been some poor decisions by western leaders to invade and police some of these countries selectively taking down dictators and leaving a void for militia groups to take control. In turn this has created the situation where people are forced to flee and have partly ended up here some have used it as a way to get in and promote terrorism but the vast majority are people who would rather stay but are desperate for safety. Not everything is black and white that's why responsibility is not all in one place.

[@spidyman8853]

@@NLT31 Hear Hear Well said.

[@cakebaker6071]

Maybe Tony Blair should not bomb Iraq and destabilised Middle east, How would you feel if a foreign country invaded and killed 110 ,000 innocent civilians ?

[@Phil-yn1er]

@@cakebaker6071 what's your point? Most of the so call refugees are economic migrants that aren't even from iraq... if u are going to debate then at least learn some credible facts instead of regurgitating the same old lefty lines... PS- i was at the anti iraq war protests

[@Phil-yn1er]

@@NLT31 Same old tired self lothing leftist lines mate.. Refugees aren't our fault or our problem

[@TheRatlord74]

He said accents won't change, so what happened to cockney?

[@FACEandLMS]

wot yoo facking toohkin abaa'?

[@jaypicard6198]

White flight, then replacement, now most Londoners sound black even if they are not.

[@seaniekay]

It moved to essex

[@dhalsim-1]

@@FACEandLMS Now it sounds like "Is you axing me questions bruv innit"

[@ChancellorOfTheSpellchecker]

@@jaypicard6198 But don't forget, the Great Replacement is just a conspiracy theory.

[@autobaron2992]

Kenneth an absolute legend. He died 3 years after this debate. RIP

[@patrick7775]

He was wrong , and if he was alive today he would admit it .

[@captainahab2485]

I always thought he was exaggerating his personality in the Carry On films, he obviously wasn’t! 😂

[@dodec8449]

"Do you know who your MEP is?" "Ma-margaret Thatcher?" What are you doing in this studio, boy, go home.

[@wakefieldyorkshire]

We never joined the EU. Just listen to the views of everyone, we joined the common market.

[@tehf00n]

11 months after this comment, people are still confusing it. Im not sure why they tell me I dont know what im talking about and yet they think we joined the EU. its strange how blind people are sometimes.

[@imdbist]

Actually it was the EEC (European Economic Community) that we joined.

[@theplayer2286]

@@imdbist Yes but the Common Market and the EEC are, in effect, the same thing.

[@imdbist]

@@theplayer2286 just one of the names is wrong.

[@imdbist]

@Paul Gavin but we did vote in a referendum in 1975 to stay in. It's the EU that was forced upon us. Now we've voted to leave it and we're waiting, waiting, waiting for parliament to carry out the peoples democratic decision.

[@breadonitsown8950]

Where we got it wrong: being European/British/French/German meant we had to consider the idea of being part of the EU. TheEU is NOT Europe!!!!!!!

[@michaelmorris2300]

Well it does take effort finding things out by yourself as apposed to being spoon fed.

[@jfelton4153]

Thomas Longrigg - then why are we being force fed to be European. Britain has never been European.

[@gignetheninj]

After watching this. The sooner we are out the better.

[@citizen1163]

Bob Cryer, the progressive MEP who could see how the Common Market was working, even then, was killed in a car crash in the 90s. Shame.

[@seanmacdonald4960]

pamla motown

[@EgoShredder]

Very good man and a rare gem. He was from my hometown of Bradford, West Yorkshire which these days is run by short sighted corrupt cronies, that love accepting money from housing developers to wallpaper Bradford in concrete, and even over natural wildlife habitats used by the local community. Also Islam is infesting the whole place at an increasing rate, and making entire areas no-go for white and black people.

[@KKTR3]

EgoShredder Darkist Howe He showed Bradford back in the 90s for the Hell it was for black and white peoples He didn't want to he went there to see his muslin Asian brothers and end up at blows with them

[@KKTR3]

EgoShredder don't for got the steam trains.

[@pentuplove6542]

#BobCryerWasSuicided

[@earth2595]

People should understand that we had a referendum as to whether we remain in the EEC in 1975. The EEC is totally different to the EU.

[@michaelwhite8031]

Hats off to the first lady in the audience.

[@sallyb1689]

Frenchman says "you are insular because you want to be yourselves" - there we have it.

[@Lytton333]

The French have made an industry out of philosophical casuistry.

[@clavichord]

Actually, there's nothing "insular" about invading and subjugating three quarters of the world and crowning a German queen Victoria as Empress of the British Empire. One wonders if many English are not looking in the mirror at their own past when they think they see the E.U. The Scots and Irish have different viewpoints. Anyway all the fascistoid English Brexiteer arguments for freeing one'sself from an oppressive union should lead Scotland to full independence shortly

[@raymondturner1478]

@@clavichord Not every leaver liked the Empire. I think it has caused us more harm than good.

[@JayJay-nc7pr]

A Koster yeah Scotland is so oppressed aren’t they 😒🙄

[@pentuplove6542]

@@warrenmarsh5626 the idiots must edit.

[@dariusanderton3760]

If only it was just about trade, then the EU would be an OK thing. But the Eurocrats truly want "ever closer union", common immigration policy (and we see what a disaster that is), a common military, European courts overruling British courts, a giant bloated bureaucracy and taxation, etc, etc

[@thomasjones9394]

What a carry on!

[@caruthersm]

"Are we in for good do you think?" "Oh yes, we'll never go back on that again." How things have changed...

[@marchowes7872]

Things have changed by 17.4m% lol.

[@dhalsim-1]

Since then the EU went from bad to worse. Roll on FREXIT

[@davidviner4932]

Interesting video, the Labour MEP seemed to be the only one talking sense, shame how they are trying to sell us out now

[@MobinKiadeh]

Before Blair, Labour was always anti EU. Blair injected this pro EU soft toryism into the party which poisons it to this day.

[@tracya4087]

here here

[@mickeythompson9537]

Witty, funny, elegant, compassionate, intelligent... and, as it turns out, smart as hell. RIP Kenneth Williams.

[@Iazzaboyce]

He had the wrong idea about the UK in the EEC - turned out to be a massive waste of time and money...

[@bearingthebrunt3650]

Look at that audience back then. Not much *Diversity* then was there

[@craig581]

Diversity wasn't an issue back then. Our politics changed over time. Communities have been demolished and replaced. And what's sad about mass immigration is that the people were never asked if they wanted it.

[@ChrisKirtley]

Golden days

[@ChrisKirtley]

There was a (South) African😉

[@josephgibson5493]

@@craig581 1997/98

[@liamfoley9614]

Well there was diversity of opinion, that's frowned upon these days

[@AnthonyMonaghan]

3:19 "I am German but I swing either way" YEE HAW!

[@mcsuibhne005]

Those evil bureaucrats at the EEC . Imagine the gall...making standardised rules and regulations to make trade cheaper and more profitable for the consumer. Though admittedly they did make some arbitrary rules which are funny more than anything else. Well done Brits, you dodged a bullet!

[@hatespeach9835]

The British have never wanted, and always opposed immigration (1, 2, 3). How is it then that by 2066 the British will represent less than 50% of the population? (4). It was forced upon us by a hostile outgroup following the close of WW2, beginning with Empire Windrush (5). No, they were neither wanted nor needed, as we had surplus Brits enough to populate Australia with 1.5m to build it up (6). Mass immigration began, still against the will of the British in the 90s under Blair who made it Government policy to "rub the Right's nose in diversity" (7). In 2000, the UN explicitly named its ethnic cleansing objective of Europe as "Replacement Migration" (8). Who are the English? Let Laura Towler explain since you're uncertain (9). I will finish with a quote from the University of Oxford's Migration Observatory; "Rising concern about ‘New Commonwealth’ immigration prompted the British Election Study (BES) to begin asking the public about immigration as far back as 1964, although in those early years it did not ask the question to ‘coloured’ respondents. Throughout this period, the majority of people in Britain have agreed that there are too many immigrants in the UK."(3) 1. bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-29/immigration/introduction.aspx@t 2. compas.ox.ac.uk/2011/british-attitudes-to-immigration/ 3 migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/uk-public-opinion-toward-immigration-overall-attitudes-and-level-of-concern/ 4. standpointmag.co.uk/issues/june-2016/features-june-2016-david-coleman-demographics-brexit-eu-referendum-immigration/ 5. theoccidentalobserver.net/2015/07/12/jews-the-ss-empire-windrush-and-the-origins-of-multicultural-britain/ 6. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7217889.stm 7. telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html 8. un.org/press/en/2000/20000317.dev2234.doc.html 9. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nanVqnaigNSoe7M

[@pentuplove6542]

Rigged audience. There was no vote to join the community.

[@SpiritEngine]

There was no vote for Union in 1707 either. England has been trapped under all these constitutional layers, and all but crushed by them.

[@johnsabini3351]

Same old BBC 2 x Europhiles v 1 x Eurosceptic! Well done the British Pubilc in 2016 & 2019 - "They Don't Like It Up'm Mr Mannering"

[@ianhowlett4682]

Kenneth Williams arguing to harmonise matrons across the EEC.

[@Jimages_uk]

EEC is one thing, but the Federal republic of Europe is completely different to what we signed up to. Remember politicians promising us there will be no federal Europe. Lies, lies, lies.

[@alechsander]

yawn, yawn, yawn. Read the preamble of the treaty of rome, 1956 "ever closer union"

[@Sawrattan]

Not to mention eastern expansion. Had EU remained West European we wouldn't have had Brexit.

[@frankdsouza2425]

Brilliant discussion. I shall have to hunt for the names of the combatants, and read more about them and their opinions. MORE PLEASE.

[@mogznwaz]

Bit of a cheek of the young French bloke to go on about Britain and its empire when France had a major one!!

[@sallyb1689]

Omg isn't it funny how we have had the same debate for DECADES and ultimately proved right on British concerns.

[@rmilrta]

Or ice cream? Have we had a problem mowing lawns?

[@rmilrta]

Proved right how?

[@mjowsey]

Sally B proved right? This shows that the anti-Europeans are prone to lying. French milk, renaming Waterloo Station, and hundreds of millions extra for the NHS! ALL lies, lies and more lies!!

[@mjowsey]

James Guy I didn't say whether the decision to leave was wrong or right. I just observed that the anti-EU side tells lies, and if you need to lie all the time then your position cannot be very strong.

[@mrjones1696]

Martin, you're talking about politicians so yes lies are expected constantly but there will be millions extra for the NHS it is whether the crooks in power decide to divert it that way rather than into their own pockets as per usual.

[@SpiritEngine]

Who'd hae thoucht that in 40 years the European question would split British opinion so completely, remain vs leave, rich vs poor, right vs left, Scotland vs England.

[@Incognito1986]

Muhammed Ali vs Joe Frasier. Donnie vs Marie.

[@spidyman8853]

LOOL

[@spidyman8853]

@@Incognito1986 LOL

[@apollomemories7399]

Scotland vs England goes back some 1,000 years at least. Learn some proper history laddie or shut yer geggie.

[@fritula6200]

As a people, where does England belong. Remember England is not a continent, it's a small island...like Ireland etc. Where does England want to belong to? What good has come out of the EU....it's got filthy richer

[@krisinsaigon]

Europe- trying to make our time in the garden more pleasant by not letting your neighbour have a noisy lawnmower, trying to stop people selling us filler instead of sausage meat and trying to give us nice tasting ice cream

1.30 minutes in the feeling of deep relief we escaped this benign totalitarian trap is uncontainable. He's a good idea. Let's give up control of ever more control of every aspect of our lives to people on 70 k a year for life who all exhibit the most pronounced control freak tendencies. God, I'm so proud of my great country, the UK. So damn proud.

[@spidyman8853]

John Gleeson , WHAT ????? Are you drunk or something? What are you on about Geez? Write in proper English Though I can see you are happy that the UK is leaving. Why couldn't you have just said that rather than blathering your tripe

[@ellebhee5045]

Best bit @ 7:39 - Her reaction to a bland suit lol...

[@FightCollective]

Where's all the Muslims?!? Give these people a glimps of modern day Europe and see what they think about joining the EU then. None of those poor sods would even recognise their own high street if you lifted them from this show and dropped them into modern day Britain

[@johndavies802]

HitManHey I

[@rmilrta]

Utter bollocks.

[@Lytton333]

It's always the way with cosmopolitan media figures. They are beguiled by pie-in-the sky experimentalist piffle as many of them are creative types, especially prone to it.

[@TheAmishGamer]

Bollocks, the biggest change to our high streets is no Woolworths. The people in this video don't seem like the kind of snowflakes who are unable to cope with foreign people.

[@eugenemorice8545]

"None of those poor sods would even recognise their own high street if you lifted them from this show and dropped them into modern day Britain" Of course they feckin wouldn't because this was filmed 33 years ago in 1985. Do you think that those people around in 1952 would have recognised the high street in 1985? Oh FFS give your head a jiggle will ya !!!!

[@botany500kojak]

Seems like there was an agenda back then. One leaver and two remainers.

[@dodec8449]

tin foil hat

[@backwoodsbungalow9674]

3 remoaners counting the BBC presenter 😎.

[@Cartoonman154]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards Funny how you call leavers "whining". Today's remainers would be in nappies.

[@hauskalainen]

The ice cream story is one of the euro myths... well certain Italians may be proud that their ice cream contains only dairy fat but that argument did not hold sway. We still eat ice cream containing non dairy fat. And Sweden and Austria every joined the EU and most Norwegian politicians would join the EU. It is just that Norwegians fear losing their identity.

[@roderickcozens5371]

Europe owes Britain a debt. Lest they forget.

[@chrisearl4440]

Exactly right. Sickens me how short their memories are!

[@chrisearl4440]

I fully understand that if it were not for the Russians then things would have turned out very differently. However the French just surrendered, and the Dutch and Belgians were pretty useless. Although I am obviously a cretin, I have heard about something which happened in June 1944. On current evidence, you have not!

[@chrisearl4440]

So why exactly did the UK declare war on Germany in 1939? And why did we declare war on Germany in 1914? Clue, if you need it: Poland and Belgium. Quad erat demonstrandum.

[@johnbull1986]

@Terry Watson You're. Moron.

[@johnbull1986]

@Terry Watson There. Moron.

[@madeinengland1212]

Bob Cryer's had a very ambivalent response to the Bradford grooming scandal when he became MP there. Tried to sort it out quietly with the muslim "community". That failed. And the abuse went on. He founded a nice little political dynasty with his wife and son being MP's too.

[@cloudstrife206]

‘I’m German and a swing either way’ typical German woman then...

[@KKTR3]

I thought this was older than 85, within 12 years of this Blair started the brainwashed program

[@PibrochPonder]

Oh and flooding the country to change its ethnic historical makeup

[@madeinengland1212]

Ah Khalid Aziz. Those were the days. The line from good old Khalid to Anjem Choudary was a pretty steep one.

[@bobbyfischer6786]

Aziz was a "token"

[@brucedanton3669]

@@bobbyfischer6786 He used to be on the BBC and then TVS when that was ITV later on. I don't know where he is now though?

[@MsMesem]

Poor Kenneth, he thinks its just about trade. Perhaps it was back then, it ain't now and the harmonisation is conformity.

[@blue24563]

The days when people in a room could disagree and have a constructive debate without being called racist, bigoted, transphobic, Islamophobic COVID deniers.

[@batlin]

It seems like the presenters wanted to trap every audience member with leading questions: "do you really believe in Europe first, Britain second?" -- what an unconstructive question.

[@c7uk]

We had that exact mower - we only cleared it out of my parents garage recently 😁

[@jonnamechange6854]

The sheep or the machine?

[@82pichon]

Amazing to watch a tv discussion programmer from 1985. Not a single black or brown face to be seen and absolutely no one would have noticed

[@crazygeorgelincoln]

I want a really effing loud lawnmower.

[@herrfister1477]

Martin Baldwin-Edwards Think about what you have said Makes little sense, eh?

[@chubeye1187]

Why

[@formxshape]

crazygeorgelincoln and we hope we’re not living near you.

[@xanderathome]

All the countries of the common market will be reformed and reorganised into the first Galactic Empire!

[@fivish]

It's taken far too long for brexit to be happening

[@mogznwaz]

Didn’t get given a chance to Leave before 2016

[@astronomenov99]

What is Europe for? 1. Prevents war (between members). 2. Promotes trade (large market) 3. Protects consumers. 4. Protects workers. 5. Recycles surplus within the Union. 2 requires 3 and 4 because it promotes a level playing field. 5 is not utilised enough in the UK because recycling only really works within a single currency (see USA for a good example of surplus recycling). The things that stop this working are Corporate greed and nationalism.

[@MisterChris1978]

Mr. Williams died just 3 years later. RIP such a great mind.

[@dhalsim-1]

@@proclusyellioupolos197 If he saw what the EU has become now he might have thought differently

[@ravenhill_theAnglo-Celtic-1968]

what i would give to go back to 1985.

[@andyw386]

Interesting, so in years gone by, celebrities also thought their opinion on politics was worth a lot because they were famous, just like today. I guess some things never change.

[@AchtungEnglander]

Really - who actually cares what an actor thinks. Most of the time what they have to say is of no relevance. Give me the opinions of a scientist or a entrepreneur any time

[@lorraineadams2024]

Well said Bob Cryer. What insight and foresight into the dreadful 'European Project '.

[@Qwertycritical]

I'm British, European and of the Planet Earth. This has nothing to do with the EU which is a superficial and unnecessary organisation which we do not need in its present form. By the way whether we call it ice cream or Italian ice cream, sausages or British bangers etc was always just a unimportant distraction to what was a political union & integration in disguise.

[@airingcupboard]

Technically bangers contain less meat than sausages. It’s a British thing. There’s a certain threshold of meat content otherwise you can’t actually get away with calling it a real sausage.

[@bonekolekta]

Why don't people speak clearly like this?

[@lewisner]

The rise of the internet, Facebook and textspeak.

[@mullimulli6259]

Innit fam

[@pps900]

Because these people are British, not Pakistani British

[@JonDingle]

Partly because of ignorance but mainly because of American slang being adoptedby the general media, muscians and social media. I will also cite laziness! It does my head in when I hear made up words like "Specificity" being used by American politicians and the so called "cool" use of making words up.

[@truthseeker2095]

S P P don't forget there no blacks with 'dem, dat, dose'

[@jonathancooper4914]

I’ve been trying to tell many a member of my party for some time that we gotta accept we’re leaving the eu. I gave up because they just wouldn’t listen. And they still won’t listen. It’s bloody hopeless.

[@Ajs_1988]

Stop trying to convince idiots, it wont work. Just let them watch it happen

[@tubularbill]

Most Brits are true nationalists. They are not EU people.

[@sallyb1689]

Agree. But Euro people think nationalism equals tyranny or fascism because that's the only way they know how to do it. They cannot fathom how we have a stable monarchy and democracy and our nationalism is pomp and circumstance in celebration of that.

[@iamthecaptainofmysoul2293]

+Sophie A great comment

[@alicemi4155]

+Sophie A Stupid comment. We don't think nationalism or patriotism is tantamount to tyranny or fascism, quite on the contrary, fascism is fake patriotism, and fascists, claiming they are the only ones who love their country, are the worst national enemies and real traitors. Nobody in Europe mistakes fascism for nationalism, unless they're fascists themselves. And we are not “Euro people”, like you're not “UK people”. We are ordinary humans who happened to be born in Europe, with some of us even belonging to nations way older than yours. If you're so democratic and noble-minded, you should show some respect. The universe doesn't revolve around your version of reality.

[@iamthecaptainofmysoul2293]

+alice mi we are UK people and very proud of it too

[@sallyb1689]

+alice mi Lol! Looks like the truth has touched a raw nerve. Try making an argument without getting angry and defensive. We Brits refuse to be ruled by you continentals and you have to accept that fact. You go your way and we will go ours. No need to get angry and argue about it. And by the way, as Colt states above, we ARE United Kingdom people - our flag, known to most as the Union Jack, reflects this fact.

[@thomaschad18]

Compare this to the Big Questions where everyone shouts over each other

[@Sawrattan]

I came here *just* to write this 😂 the Nicky presenter of Big Question even takes part in the arguments, and keeps cutting everyone off. Wish presenters were more like this.

[@gaycha6589]

Manners still count, and definitely a 'lost' quality that epitomized beingBritish. Wish they still counted in these ghastly angry times.

[@dariusanderton3760]

why are they asking Germans and French something that the British need to decide for themselves.

[@7EEVEE]

i agree mate but its proper good tv isnt it, interesting to see what everyone was saying then

[@harbourwoodlandvisitor2445]

If you close your eye and only listen to the audio you could think this recoding was made somewhere between 2015 to December 2019. The only clue to its date is the presence of Kenneth Williams and some mps who are not with us today but the argument sounds the same in 2019. I'm glad we have managed to reach the summit and conquered this cold burocrats mountain called mount eu. now we can decend into the safety of warmer valleys towns villages of Wales England Scotland and ni. It's been one heck of a difficult climb to get past this but as long as they don't cut the safety rope during our decent to the safety of our UK ground we should be all good and chipper in all. I just pray they don't cut the safety rope and trick us on the way down. I don't trust them at all. So many enermies within the eu, guy verhofstat among others in the eu. former speaker John burcow, anna oubry, Tony Blair Gina miller to name a few out of a long list in the UK enermies within. These people who have tried to ruin ancient common law of England. We have to keep a close eye on them all until we are fully out and even then still watch them like a hawk as they roam free amongst us with thoughts of distruction inside there hearts. They stopped teaching about common law in schools in the 70s. I wonder why? Makes it really easy to changed a country law system when people only know about the laws of the eu and don't one thing about Britain and its own common law of England which stands as a barrier to eu law, Roman law.

[@jockey102]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards nice point of view you have junior, maybe you will be able to think for yourself when you grow up. If you don't want to live in a democratic country and accept that the majority win in a democratic vote there are plenty of options you can take. Do us all in the UK a favour and take yourself of somewhere they don't recognize a vote unless it is the correct one, oh I know try the EU. You are a typical self entitled Muppet, maybe the double barrelled name offers a clue

[@spidyman8853]

You write with such hate towards the EU. Not sure what is your gripe with them. But I question who is your enemy in the EU ? apart from differences of an opinion the UK does not have an enemy in the EU. You must be a person of an old age to be thinking war time enemies. Life has moved on from the 1940s. Move on son.

[@spidyman8853]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards That is what you get with an uneducated people. You see them all day long singing Brexit. Nothing else. Anyway, good powerful response.

[@jockey102]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards if you are 63 you will be one of the old farts you talk about popping off soon. So it's not only oldies that voted to leave, any more than all young people voted to remain. But seriously you do have an aggressive attitude problem, if you are as you say 63 grow up

[@tommclovin4328]

Love Kenneth Williams but I wish he could see uk now

[@markshergold1449]

Thank God and boris were getting out of this God damn mess

[@adroharv9213]

but are we. Will it actually matter if we're in or out. Still the same practice of diluting what it is to be British by the various angles and agendas. The people have zero say in that . All theatre so to give an impression the people have some sway in these matters

[@malcbarrass7090]

Kenneth Williams the first of the celebrity delusionanists.

[@pentuplove6542]

Melting pot? Salad bowl.

[@patrick7775]

Funny f--ker , but bang on ,,,, must use that term from now on .

[@leonlevinsky8194]

To everyone watching: look at this video, it’s only 35 years ago. I was 16 when this video was made. Now look at all the white people. Now take a look at your own country. In 1985, Britain was a white country with normal politics, just like my country, Canada. Labour backed the working man and the Tories backed the businessman. Fast forward to 2019. My country, like Britain, is an unrecognizable multicultural gong show. The leader of a major political party in Canada is a Sikh who wears a turban. Trudeau says “Canada has no core identity”. We are living in non-white countries now, in other words, low-trust shitholes. Good bye Britain, it was nice knowing you.

[@teleaddict23]

People look so different back in 85 compared to today

[@tubularbill]

Venezuelans?

[@pps900]

They got the wrong bus

[@dhalsim-1]

@@pps900 They got the right bus, but because Venezuela have the world's largest oil reserves the United States of Israel won't let the bus drive

[@michaeljames87]

This was amazing. I wish presenters still spoke like this one.

[@teleaddict23]

Now we know that the EU is not just about trade, I wonder if these people’s views would differ nowadays. This was before the European project even became the EU and there was less rules imposed on us, no free movement etc. I would have been happy if it had stayed the common market, but I’m not happy with the undemocratic system it has become. I’m glad we are leaving.

[@redshift1223]

It is against the law of the land to submit to foreign power. Parliament and monarchy is void. That law is immutable.

[@wildheart192]

Whatever mate.

[@lucyschoon5585]

I didn't think I could love Kenny more...

[@krisburgess7429]

Back when the labour was anti eu how much things have changed now Labour is pro eu

[@herrfister1477]

Thanks for the explain!

[@canturgan]

The Conservatives took us into the EU.

[@danellis-jones1591]

Big chunk of Labour are leavers. The further left. Centrist are remainers. They think a 'free' UK will allow a socialist utopia. Of course the UK can be a socialist country AND be in the EU

[@ajs41]

I was very strongly pro-EU until about five years ago.

[@SuperBartles]

What changed your mind? (I should say I was never pro-EU, I'm just interested in why people liked it. I was taken aback by the amount of love for the project even now, I can't understand it)

[@seekingthemiddleway4048]

That's when you started believing the lies of Farage.

[@mrcockney-nutjob3832]

@@seekingthemiddleway4048Did you know the EEC was set up by the CIA?

[@iratepirate3896]

I was pro-EU until I studied EU law at law school prior to the referendum! What a clusterfuck.

[@iratepirate3896]

@Tom Cross "til you found out that europe funds-" Gonna stop you right there. Europe is funded in part by the UK. Which means we are funding those ourselves as a net contributor to the EU.

[@anderslee99]

Shame Kenneth Williams is still not around to see the largest ever democratic result being the 2016 EU referendum. Im sure he would of really enjoyed it.

[@spidyman8853]

If he was alive today he might have continued to support membership of the EU or might have changed his mind and decided to leave. People change their minds all the time. Anyway, what Kenny was saying was... it is just a club for trading and no more. That was his thinking back then.

[@andrewhoward7200]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards What a pompous, boorish comment. Sour grapes?