Enoch Powell and Roy Jenkins Clash Over Europe in Heated Referendum Debate (1975)

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Күн бұрын

On 4 June 1975, the day before the British public voted in a referendum on UK membership of the European Economic Community (EEC), ITN's Robert Kee chaired a special debate between Roy Jenkins and Enoch Powell. Jenkins, as home secretary in Harold Wilson's Labour government, was a staunch advocate of continued British membership of the EEC, while Ulster Unionist MP Enoch Powell was making the case for Britain to leave. In an energetic and sometimes heated debate, Jenkins and Powell clashed over their competing visions of Britain's future.
#EEC #Europe #EuropeanUnion #EU #Brexit #Referendum #RoyJenkins #EnochPowell #1975 #1970s
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Пікірлер: 386

@TheTRStv 2 ай бұрын

How nice to see Robert Kee letting them debate each other, without constantly interrupting as we get today.

@Londonechoes 2 ай бұрын

Shows how much our journalism and media has declined, as well as being able to tolerate different views

@nervousheadache 2 ай бұрын

Fiona Bruce.

@michaelclayton960 2 ай бұрын

Yes. Broadly, I can tolerate a different point of view so long as the person demonstrates courtesy and respect,

@folkmoot36 2 ай бұрын

Jinkins spied for the USSR. He also owned the land where the Royal mint was built, along with James Callaghan.

@Lovelylove4everyone 2 ай бұрын

@@folkmoot36Callaghan the pseudo Irishman

@grumpyoldman8661 2 ай бұрын

This discussion clearly demonstrates the decline in the intellectual calibre of today's MPs.

@benfisher1376 2 ай бұрын

Definitely. And it's not about the accents as one commenter has said. Also it speaks of the general decline in media in general.

@MrVorpalsword 2 ай бұрын

@@benfisher1376 its funny you mention their accents, Jenkins was a coal miner's son .... working class and Enoch Powell's Dad was an Headmaster .... so neither of them from anywhere near the ruling class when born. Their accents presumably were acquired at University (there were only two then, I think?)

@chrislambert9435 2 ай бұрын

Powell's comments at minute 3:10 perfectly show that it was fully know the the EEC (later the EU) was a "Federal Project" and that the end result of this Federal Project meant the loss of National Sovereignty, something the UK voter woke up to in 2016 when they voted LEAVE

@billguyan9626 Ай бұрын

Exactly what struck me immediately

@Willsey Ай бұрын

@@MrVorpalswordNo, they were just much more intelligent than todays poor standard of politicians

@StephenLoxton 2 ай бұрын

Puts the modern crowd of politicians and interviewers to shame.

@chrislambert9435 2 ай бұрын

@salfordguy69 2 ай бұрын

When watching these politicians of yesteryear the caliber is astounding. They had principles and could debate between each other with intelligence knowledge and respect. What we have today is a tragedy.

@alexscottslough1179 2 ай бұрын

I think you're just showing signs of deference. Posh accents and over complex sentence structure making you think they are smart/better etc. Jenkins was right obviously, you can't be a country in isolation in the modern world. Powell was just xenophobic as were many at that time. He was the Farage/Tice of his day.

@thegingerbreadgod1312 2 ай бұрын

⁠@@alexscottslough1179isolation is a ridiculous claim. Is Japan isolated? Is Australia isolated? Is the US isolated? Many countries have issues but these countries seem to be doing okay without being apart of any organisations… Calling Farage, tice, Enoch xenophobic is just your ignorance and lack of understanding of the opposite way of thinking and a typical lefty buzzword.

@oj3458 2 ай бұрын

@@alexscottslough1179 they both had very real arguments. Powells was more emotional whilst jenkins more about commonsense. Powell would hate the lies told by the brexit campaign. He was a principled man unlike boris wo never cared

@davidbrear8642 2 ай бұрын

@@alexscottslough1179 Powell had an unfortunate personality that made him appear to be cold and calculating. However, he was a first rate intellectual and logical thinker, with a long and successful track record as an academic, a military intelligence officer and parliamentarian. He was fluent in various ancient and modern languages, and he had a profound understanding of economics, history, religion, philosophy, etc. To compare him to a self-serving, would-be demagogue like Farage, is without foundation. The logical point Powell was making, was not as you characterize it. He was merely stating that the question of Britain's involvement in Europe could never be settled, and that anyone imagining that it could (like Jenkins), would eventually be proved wrong. Powell's analysis has been proved to be correct.

@HaggardPillockHD 2 ай бұрын

@@thegingerbreadgod1312 the USA is a global hegemon and superpower, with around 800 military bases all over the world. Why on earth would you call them "independent"?

@markoragnos6757 2 ай бұрын

50 years later and everything he said came up true. It was prophetic.

@67lionsoflisbon37 2 ай бұрын

A debate. A proper honest to God debate. Not talking over each other. As for the calibre of the personnel involved? So far ahead of the modern mob as to be incredible.

@christopher9727 2 ай бұрын

..... Do you know Jesus Christ can set you free from sins and save you from hell today Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today Romans 6.23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

@englishrose6790 Ай бұрын

I don’t think this kind of England exists anymore, calm, polite, dignified, what have we done to our great nation

@shabbos-goy9407 Ай бұрын

You let in !slam and communists to take over The UK is totally finished

@walkmanutd19 Ай бұрын

The leftist, the woke, the ignorance, the careless of politics

@azillliasmith2734 2 ай бұрын

Nobody screaming "you're scum!" Are you sure this is a proper debate? ......

@christopher9727 2 ай бұрын

.... Do you know Jesus Christ can set you free from sins and save you from hell today Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today Romans 6.23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

@MichaelJ44 Ай бұрын

Behind the screen, I was to Jenkins lol

@torosdepamplona 2 ай бұрын

Amazing debates. Respectful and full of content, not diatribe.

@LeslieDiablerets 2 ай бұрын

This of course was pre Maastricht and the establishment of the EU as a politicl entity.

@SuperJohntoo Ай бұрын

The EU as a political entity was the end game. However, they could not let the electorate know, and had to be done by stealth.

@thepub245 2 ай бұрын

Most of the politicians of that era grew up in far harder times and were also WW2 veterans, so they had a greater perspective of life than todays university 'educated' numpties, most of whom have never had a real job in the real world.

@philgreenfield8704 2 ай бұрын

Joining the EU was the worst thing that this country has ever done. Enoch was spot on, unfortunately his predictions are coming to pass.

@davidcoleman2796 2 ай бұрын

He was 100% right .

@TrevorEden 2 ай бұрын

Who

@jogiedhesi2021 2 ай бұрын

Go to Wolverhampton and see who makes the difference in business I bet you probably live in a council estate and you are bitter about your own failures in life

@davidcoleman2796 2 ай бұрын

@@jogiedhesi2021 who are you talking about ?

@trackdusty 2 ай бұрын

Powell was too good for the British. FAR too good.

@trackdusty 2 ай бұрын

@@davidcoleman2796 I'd say "user" (i.e. @user-gd1yg6le1h).

@TerenceCousins 2 ай бұрын

Enoch was right!

@michaelmcdermott8993 Ай бұрын

The BLOB cancelled him

@Dbdbe1 Ай бұрын

@@michaelmcdermott8993He was a highly intelligent man who also made racist speeches. You can believe both things

@colinstewart1432 Ай бұрын

@@michaelmcdermott8993He got Assimilated by The Borg.

@ysgol3 Ай бұрын

😂😂Of course he wasn't - we've left and it's a disaster!

@MGJS71 21 күн бұрын

@@ysgol3 a disaster for the Bad Guys!

@undesignated3491 2 ай бұрын

So intelligent was Enoch, the way he was treated is exactly how they treat your average white brit.

@jamesfindlay7186 2 ай бұрын

ITS AS IF MR POWELL COULD SEE INTO THE FUTURE

@markshirley01 2 ай бұрын

Why what did he see?

@rogue-p1h 2 ай бұрын

@@markshirley01 a European state that eroded the supremacy of the British Parliament and the primacy of its laws. You can see this starkly even after brexit with the ECHR and the Strasburg court etc....

@christopher9727 2 ай бұрын

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

@Britishempire-hv6rb 2 ай бұрын

@@markshirley01COCKROACH'S coming in to the UK BOY 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

@Jack-bs6zb 2 ай бұрын

@markshirley … he likely saw victims of the mind virus .. get well soon.

@rogue-p1h 2 ай бұрын

Enoch Powell was right about migration and the EU yet no one listened then or now.

@christopher9727 2 ай бұрын

No hope in going to the past come to the loving savior today Seek his Holy Spirit in prayer today he can give you peace confort and guidance today Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

@christopher9727 2 ай бұрын

@ericboxer3053 2 ай бұрын

Yep except Enoch underestimated how bad how quickly it would happen

@zeddeka 2 ай бұрын

Russian troll

@SagaciousFrank 2 ай бұрын

@@ericboxer3053, he didn't have a crystal ball, nobody no matter how intelligent, logical, imaginative, or wise can fully foresee how the future will unfold.

@johnryan1159 2 ай бұрын

Enoch , a much maligned genius.

@briangeorge5935 2 ай бұрын

💯👍👍👍

@johnrandall125 2 ай бұрын

He was the second youngest university professor in history. And still today the youngest man to attain the rank of Brigadeer in the British Army.

@michaelstewart3532 2 ай бұрын

Enoch has got answers for Roy’s questions before he opened his mouth. This is superb

@christopher9727 2 ай бұрын

Jesus Christ saves He had mercy on me he can save all who all seek him today He made away through calvery repent of all sins today Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today Holy Spirit can give you peace purpose and joy and his will today John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

@andrewdavies8954 2 ай бұрын

when politicians were able to have learned , persuasive ,sensible debate , I wish this still existed now, what have we got, Lammy ,for Gods sake .

@RosieHarp 2 ай бұрын

😆

@Willsey Ай бұрын

That’s why I like watching old versions of Question time. Proper dignified debates unlike the program now.

@RosieHarp Ай бұрын

@Willsey They are just slanging matches trying to 'cancel' each other basically

@jkmcgregor7797 2 ай бұрын

The UK biggest mistake was joining europe .we should have stayed out and agreed a trade deal .fast forward 2024 15 million less people in England 🎉🎉🎉

@richardn2832 2 ай бұрын

I think it was sold in the 70's to the British public in that way, a common market.

@jkmcgregor7797 2 ай бұрын

@@richardn2832lol the same way they selling us the fake news that Putin is gonna invade western Europe .

@patrickmorris3721 2 ай бұрын

EEC European Economic Community. That’s as far as it should have gone. Common trade.without the bureaucrats.

@sportstrader2175 2 ай бұрын

All 3 of these men had a good & honorable WW2 in different ways.

@MGJS71 21 күн бұрын

Except Jenkins was working for Germany, both in WW2 & under EEC/EU.

@swindelli2214 Ай бұрын

Powell was a genius whose words have come back to haunt us. A bit like someone else.

@colinstewart1432 Ай бұрын

Who's that then? That could apply to many people.

@philgreenfield8704 2 ай бұрын

Old Dwenkins was the root cause of our downfall.

@sharonrichards3442 2 ай бұрын

Enoch right yet again god bless him

@christopher9727 2 ай бұрын

... Do you know Jesus Christ can set you free from sins and save you from hell today Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today Romans 6.23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

@simoncox9689 24 күн бұрын

he was wrong an the state of the uk after we left the EU shows how wrong he was..youmust live in a fanatsy world..since food prices are higher since leaving the EU an Enoch was trying to say how cheaper things would be just like farage did an how that work out?

@pobinr 2 ай бұрын

How on earth did we manage to cooperate as allies to defeat Germany without the EU? The irony being centralised control from Berlin was one of the things we fought to oppose. Centralised control from Brussels instead when we joined the EEC wasn't cooperation, it was subjugation

@johntate5722 Ай бұрын

Totally agree

@sohrabrustum8582 Ай бұрын

You really need a course in political history.

@MGJS71 21 күн бұрын

Jenkins was a German spy during WW2.

@starman900 2 ай бұрын

both men had a point, it's just a matter of what their priorities were for the country.

@MGJS71 21 күн бұрын

Jenkins' priority was West Germany, not Britain.

@stuartnoyes2615 2 ай бұрын

Watching this you get Powell talking about the constitutional aspects of membership and the fact the British people wouldn't accept losing control of their country. Then you have Jenkins talking about economics and projecting fear. The fact joining the eec brought about an immediate trade deficit. Jenkins does not come clean and say he wants to live in a pan European state where we lose control. He doesn't make the case for this. Doesnt acknowledge it. A liar.

@dartskipper3170 2 ай бұрын

Tony Benn also argued with Jenkins about losing Sovereignty. I remember the cost of Dairy products going up in the first weeks and the introduction of VAT " to pay for our membership. " Powell and Benn were proved correct.

@MGJS71 21 күн бұрын

For Jenkins EEC meant more personal power.

@abergreg 2 ай бұрын

We were LIED to, my parentS bitterly regretted being duped by people like Jenkins.

@chrislambert9435 2 ай бұрын

Yes, Powell's comments at minute 3:10 perfectly show that it was fully known that the EEC (later the EU) was a "Federal Project" and that the end result of this Federal Project meant the loss of National Sovereignty, something the UK voter woke up to in 2016 when they voted LEAVE

@chriswilde7246 2 ай бұрын

I remember so many people didn't want to join the EEC, but Edward Heath got his way.....that would have happened even if people have voted no.

@colinstewart1432 Ай бұрын

When most politicians lie, the honest speaker ( whomever they claim to represent, ) is marginalised. It's why they always seem like outsiders and fringe characters. They make the bizarre mistake of acting in Good Faith.

@colinstewart1432 Ай бұрын

@@chriswilde7246Ted Heath had his way with more than this decision.

@chrislambert9435 Ай бұрын

@@colinstewart1432 Excellent comment

@andywest8363 Ай бұрын

Well Enoch has been proven correct !

@colinstewart1432 Ай бұрын

In what way? Your statement needs clarification.

@simoncox9689 24 күн бұрын

no he was not.look at us now since we left the EU..an all we lost..the country is more poor aswell as less influence

@abergreg 2 ай бұрын

Roy Jenkins talking rubbish, ill considered guesswork. Enoch Powell was a high level genius. He spoke fourteen languages and was professor of ancient Greek at the age of 24. He was one of only two people that entered the army as a private in 1939 and rose to the rank of brigadier by the end of the war. He was pilloried for predicting exactly what is happenning and is being proven right time and time again. He was indisputably the greatest political mind of the last 125 years.

@flashtheoriginal 2 ай бұрын

2 conviction politicians. Poles apart on their beliefs and separated by ideology, yet able to debate with knowledge, confidence and passion. Today's political forum is so slanted to the establishment/left/uber-diversity. Well, Starmer is in the big chair now; he cant blame Sunak's failed government any longer, he has to DELIVER. He can only hope that the corporate, woke groundswell he profited from (especially from the MSM) during opposition will stand by him. How ironic if it did not....

@chrislambert9435 2 ай бұрын

User, Powell's comments at minute 3:10 perfectly show that it was fully known that the EEC (later the EU) was a "Federal Project" and that the end result of this Federal Project meant the loss of National Sovereignty, something the UK voter woke up to in 2016 when they voted LEAVE

@uingaeoc3905 2 ай бұрын

We never traded with the EEC/EU on balanced terms. Jenkins showed his ignorance here. He became an EU President.

@thedon8772 2 ай бұрын

You mean your terms.

@dartskipper3170 2 ай бұрын

@@thedon8772 It was admitted years later by a civil servant who was involved in the negotiations that the UK was screwed by France. Remember that deGaulle blocked our application to join the EEC several times before Wilson finally took us in. There was no referendum about joining, only about staying in in 1975. By that time the economy was in serious trouble so people decided by a small majority that it would be better to stay in. Cue 40+ years of arguing.

@sohrabrustum8582 Ай бұрын

@@dartskipper3170 aye, right...

@dazo69 2 ай бұрын

Interestingly Roy Jenkins became president of the European Commission 2 years later!

@colinstewart1432 Ай бұрын

Completely coincidentally, of course 🤣

@davidbrear8642 2 ай бұрын

Jenkins' wishful thinking was proved to be completely wrong. Powell's logical analysis, that the question of Britain's European involvement would never be settled definitely, was valid before, and after, the 1975 referendum, and it remains valid today.

@markshirley01 2 ай бұрын

Nonsense, Brexit has been a disaster. I'm a graphic designer and all my clients that import and export say it's damaged their business. After 8 years I've not heard one positive comment from the business people I deal with. That's some achievement.

@davidbrear8642 2 ай бұрын

@@markshirley01 You are completely missing the point that Powell was making. In fact, you are actually confirming the point that he was making. Masses of people now regret Brexit and realize it was a disaster for business. Thus, just as in 1975 and before, the question of Britain's European involvement remains unsettled. Whether we like it or not, it will remain unsettled.

@wamblecropt7506 2 ай бұрын

@@davidbrear8642 Why does it remain unsettled?

@davidbrear8642 2 ай бұрын

@@wamblecropt7506 Today, there are serious calls for the UK to rejoin the European Union, just as there were previously, serious calls for the UK to exit the EEC which intesified when it became the European Union. In 1975, Powell's analysis was that, even if the referendum kept the UK in the EEC, one day in the future, public pressure would probably force another UK government to hold another referendum. At that time, he pointed out the wording of the agreement with the EEC, which stated that UK membership was dependent on the continuing assent of parliament. Having said that, it's doubtful that the UK would be allowed to rejoin under a similar agreement, given the country's track record. The unsettled question of Britain's European involvement has poisoned UK politics for decades, and it continues to do so.

@chrislambert9435 2 ай бұрын

@glynbirchall9146 2 ай бұрын

Top man mr powell.

@simonharrison1874 Ай бұрын

How right Enoch was. Proved right on every point, God bless him.

@KevTheImpaler Ай бұрын

Roy Jenkins and Enoch Powell were both huge brains, but I agree with Enoch.

@pendorran 2 ай бұрын

Issue by issue, I am probably much closer to Jenkins politically, but on Europe Powell has been proven correct on the broad Europe question.

@glynbirchall9146 2 ай бұрын

We need him now .

@Evemeister12 Ай бұрын

This is a compelling and intelligent debate. Was there any need for ITV archives to use the clickbait "HEATED" in the video title? The subject matter would suffice to attract good interest.

@craigrothwell6144 Ай бұрын

Thank you Mr Powell from sunny Tenerife :)

@spanishpeaches2930 Ай бұрын

Roy Jenkins, the man who coined the most pernicious of terms...Multiculturalism.

@chapsnaps1 2 ай бұрын

A year later, Denis Healey borrowed £3.9bn from the International Monetary Fund to try and stop a sterling crisis that had pushed the pound to new lows against the dollar. A balance of payments deficit, low productivity, industrial disputes and a war in the Middle East had all contributed to our economic woes. Nearly 50 years on we are in a similar position - along with most western nations who are carrying record levels of debt.

@rogue-p1h 2 ай бұрын

In hindsight Britain abandoned the countries that it was closest too Canada, New Zealand, and Australia to join a club of nations that frankly dint actually like Britain and have treated Britain poorly

@christopher9727 2 ай бұрын

@zeddeka 2 ай бұрын

Bollocks. Britain abandoned nobody. The world has changed massively and the likes of new Zealand and Canada had formed much closer relations to other countries. You seriously think that Canada was closer to the UK than it was to the USA? In any event, the commonwealth markets were tiny compared to the European ones. The "Europe doesn't like us" line belongs to people born in the 1940s. It's 2024. We all want to rejoin the EU because we've seen what a catastrophe that leaving has been

@rogue-p1h 2 ай бұрын

@@zeddeka "we all want to rejoin..." is a very sweeping comment. The EU has been a catastrophe for the UK. The EU is walking into catastrophe right now even without the UK. Nobody wants to be part of the United State of Europe and thats what it is

@AapVanDieKaap 2 ай бұрын

If you don't know the difference between "too" and "to", you are functionally illiterate.

@marctaylor7986 Ай бұрын

How people should debate one listening to the other and responding accordingly.

@IanMoyle 2 ай бұрын

Only one winner in this debate, not a racist, he loved India.

@christopher9727 2 ай бұрын

@mixmax1953 Ай бұрын

Enoch Powell was a giant among pygmies.

@paullangin4499 2 ай бұрын

Woy was wubbish

@vantheman1238 Ай бұрын

Enoch Powell was incredibly intelligent. So well spoken and so clear with his views. The man was light years ahead of his time. So brave and courageous and he was ridiculed for what he said. Absolutely tragic that such a great man was ignored and is still ignored today.

@johnpugh3348 Ай бұрын

Enoch was proved right again

@chrisround941 2 ай бұрын

E.P. On the money as always………… 55years on and Yvette cooper is quoting Jenkins chapter and verse. Watch her in the h.o.c. answering Lee Anderson yesterday

@Dackah 2 ай бұрын

Robert Kee was quite an extraordinary interviewer, historian, and former bomber pilot-captured and sent to Stalag Luft 3, escaped, and nearly got away. " A Crowd Is Not Company" , his book, is a great read.

@blastproces 2 ай бұрын

A truly perceptive and thusly concerned man of sheer integrity

@arlmondgcalcutt6562 2 ай бұрын

So people voted on the Common Market & not the EU (ruled by Brussels) - but these two were fully recognising the issue of Brexit versus Trade agreement

@homonovo 2 ай бұрын

Enoch was right!

@jamesmccann355 2 ай бұрын

Britain's influence in the world is best left in control of the British themselves. Not foreign burocracy. Hindering every aspect of their own lives.

@christopher9727 2 ай бұрын

.... Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

@thedon8772 2 ай бұрын

Unless of course it's American or Russian, what utter Bollocks.

@johnwright9372 2 ай бұрын

In 1975 Britain still had a chance to keep Commonwealth and world markets. By 2016 it was too integrated.

@essexpeter6116 Ай бұрын

Jenkins was right in someways, we needed to work with Europe. Powell on the other hand, I think, could foresee the UK being dragged into so much more than trading. Powell damaged his own career by speaking his beliefs and sticking to his guns. Incidentally, note it was the EEC not the EU.

@johnwright7895 2 ай бұрын

Enoch was right.

@justinbutcher3623 2 ай бұрын

Enoch was right, yet again.

@JupiterThunder 2 ай бұрын

He was right about everything. The Commonwealth, immigration, the EU, the economy,.

@SunofYork 2 ай бұрын

Tommy Robinson fan ?

@jonsmith1162 2 ай бұрын

@@SunofYorkWhat's Tommy got to do with it? Enoch was an elected politician with an incredible military and academic background. He also went street to street in his constituency talking to his constituents in fluent Pashtun and Urdu. Are you trying to draw some equivalence between him and Tommy?

@myaphextwin807 2 ай бұрын

@@SunofYork thick as pig dung? Yep!

@SunofYork 2 ай бұрын

@@QuoPaperPlane Do you celebrate Hitler's birthday.. 20th April ? That usually a good indicator

@robinbell568 Ай бұрын

Did I hear right, that Thacher was in favour of joining EEC ?

@MagicNash89 10 күн бұрын

Are you surprised? Yes she were. Thatcher become much more Eurosceptic by the end of her career and life. (Look on youtube for "Margaret Thatcher on BBC Newsday 1975 - United Kingdom European Communities Membership Referendum", where she speaks on the matter herself - she launched the conservative effort on staying in Europe in 1975)

@johnwright9372 2 ай бұрын

Contrast the politiness of this debate with the ill mannered interuptions, blatant falsehoids, shouting and cheap shots of today.

@joehurst Ай бұрын

Roy Jenkins was Welsh although he didn't sound it. I don't know whether he could speak Welsh or not but Enoch Powell could. There's a video on KZbin of a 1968 interview that Powell gave that was conducted entirely in Welsh.

@MagicNash89 10 күн бұрын

That's quite impressive, I read up a little bit on Powell's biography putside politics and he actually wrote academic papers IN Welsh.

@joehurst 9 күн бұрын

@@MagicNash89 Apparently Powell could speak 12 languages fluently, including Latin. He was a professor of Greek at Sydney university in the 1930s.

@patrickcosgrove2623 2 ай бұрын

Enjoyed the discussion with Roy Jenkins and Enoch Powell. I like listening to Enoch Powell when he speaks, though I don't agree with his views, well most of them...I think 🤔

@johntate5722 Ай бұрын

The benn v jenkins debate chaired by david dimbleby is also on youtube and its v good!!

@Scott1433 Ай бұрын

The EU or EC as it was called then then did some good things and it did some bad things. The issue for me isn't whether it was good or bad, the issue for me was "was it democratic" There is only one answer to that question.....no. If you believe in democracy it doesn't make sense to me why you would be happy to be in a club erodes away democracy. That would be a contradiction of your own beliefs

@Britishempire-hv6rb 2 ай бұрын

Enoch a great man 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

@chrisdawson8517 2 ай бұрын

E Powel was right all along!

@garethjenkins1403 Ай бұрын

Enoch Powell saw the reality clearly and was proven right. It was sold as. Common market got trade. Europe is still trying to be the United States of Europe

@MrMcap70 Күн бұрын

And Roy Jenkins is still 100% right...in 1975 and in 2024!

@Willsey Ай бұрын

Can you imagine a debate between Powell who was a very clever man and the Deputy Leader , Angela Rayner. A intellectual against a chav

@pablolowenstein1371 2 ай бұрын

A racist they say...no sir...a sage.

@MagicNash89 10 күн бұрын

Powell was mostly right on immigration and wrong on Europe. Europe is a complex subject however, because its a higher level of national cooperation. One I believe might not look attractive - but is a necessity because of global competition...

@Alfred-xc3hc Ай бұрын

All said and done England 🇬🇧 should have listened!!! Now look .....embarrassing politicians

@christopherross8360 Ай бұрын

Enoch was the prime minister we needed but unfortunately never had.

@MGJS71 21 күн бұрын

He was too important to be Prime Minister.

@clive5621 Ай бұрын

Civilised conversation so at least you can try to understand the points they are trying to make I think .

@marcellowoodford4048 Ай бұрын

The guy in the Cream Suit Needed a Good haircut!-Shocking! And Enoch was Always Right! x M

@zapre2284 2 ай бұрын

Normalise talking like Enoch Powell

@wilsonfisk6626 2 ай бұрын

YES! He has a lovely voice.

@stephenholmes1036 2 ай бұрын

Roy Jenkins a poor quality MP who sold us out

@alphabetaxenonzzzcat 2 ай бұрын

And a notorious womaniser, plus went against everything he stood for being the son of a miner who then turned into one of the liberal elite.

@jaguar6519 Ай бұрын

Enoch Powell was a very intelligent man, everything he said back in the 70's as come to fruition but back then it wasn't so obvious but he had foresight to see it from immigration to Europe.

@chel3SEY 2 ай бұрын

Was there ever a more pompous and patronising politician in British politics than Roy Jenkins?

@derrickfield8957 2 ай бұрын

No : He is the one that told immigrants that you do not need to integrate, we want a Multi-cultural society. Look how that turned out.

@fungalbob 2 ай бұрын

Loads of them. Rhodes Boyson springs to mind

@MGJS71 21 күн бұрын

Yes, Ted Heath managed to be even worse.

@davidowen7793 2 ай бұрын

What vision Enoch Powell had, if only people had listened we would all be better off

@zeddeka 2 ай бұрын

Amazing how many Russian trolls suddenly show up on these threads

@janesda 2 ай бұрын

Is this meant to exemplify the decline of ITN, especially the lunchtime report?

@johntate5722 Ай бұрын

ITN lunchtime report in the 70s (leonard parkin) was great

@TheDAT9 2 ай бұрын

Enoch Powell was a very clever academic and scholar. The best prime minister we never had. Perhaps we didn't deserve him, looking at how degraded we are now.

@redrev674 2 ай бұрын

Roy Jenkins was a sell out.

@zeddeka 2 ай бұрын

His name is revered these days. While Powell is despised. But being in Russia, you wouldn't know that.

@redrev674 2 ай бұрын

@@zeddeka revered by whom? Yes, I’m definitely from Russia. I live near the magic roundabout in Swindon lol.

@tonycoxall7370 2 ай бұрын

@th8257 Who revers Roy Jenkins these days? Most people in the uk probably wouldn’t know who he was. Powell - no matter what you think of him - is far better known and is indeed, revered by many.

@chapsnaps1 2 ай бұрын

Roy Jenkins believed in managing the decline of the UK from within a bigger organisation.

@stefannicholson852 Ай бұрын

The No-Campaign was badly organised. They really believed that they didn't have to do much to win. The Remain Camp was very similar.

@greco66 2 ай бұрын

Wow. EP’s words were prophetic

@adiem1653 2 ай бұрын

Listening to Jenkins speak made me think of a certain black female labour MP who wore odd shoes! 😅

@JimJim-kh8rw 2 ай бұрын

Eric Morcambe Ernie wise and Ballard Berkeley, the Major from Fawlty Towers 😂

@jon-xd7tl 2 ай бұрын

Enoch "was one of only two men in the entire war to rise from private to brigadier" [Wikipedia]

@davidbrear8642 2 ай бұрын

@@jon-xd7tl Powell also left his academic post in Australia, paying his fare to return to the UK in order to volunteer for the army. His military record is quite astonishing, in that, whilst still in his 20s, he rose from the ranks to become an intelligence officer. At one time, his interpretation of intercepted German communications, was guiding military strategy in the North African campaign.

@sonnyburnett8851 Ай бұрын

Intuition from powell

@solent38 Ай бұрын

The EEC (Common Market) was a sensible and logical and highly successful step for a group of trading nations who were also neighbours to take. So sensible and logical in fact that it became the victim of it's own success in that later, the politicians became greedy for power by politicising the EEC morphng it into the EU. So I disagree with Powell's stance of wanting to leave the EEC but he was right to predict the evolution of the EEC into a politicised EU. As for Jenkins, I don't think he believed for one second in Powells prophecy and he simply wrote it off as dramatics at the time, as did many politicians of the era, I think many of them just didn't believe him and and dismissed his comments as nonsense. Which makes Powells prediction all the more fascinating. The EEC functioned extremely well and it's a great pity that it became what it has, the EU (of which I'm not a fan) however, on balance I don't believe that the UK should have left, better to fight for influence from within than to have no influence from without but I understand the arguments of those who wished to leave, and I respect those views, just as I respect the views of those who wished to remain within it. And that is also a central theme of this article, respect by the participants, today it seems to me this discussion would have degraded into one party passing personal insults at the other calling each other names and labelling each other in an attempt to dumb down and cancel their views, which is probably one of the most concerning aspects of politics and our society today. One other part of this clip which remains as important today as it did then, is Jenkins observation that it was crucial that there be a high turn out for that referendum and that those who would vote Yes (to stay in the EEC) should not be complacent and assume that the referendum was won without casting their vote, a mistake I would suggest many remain voters made in 2016.

@watchalot919 Ай бұрын

The common market was always a great idea, the EU is and was a disaster

@chriswilde7246 2 ай бұрын

I was 11 years old when we had this referendum, I remember my parents and particularly my grandparents not wanting to join the EEC because like Enoch powell, they didn't trust what it would become......how right they were. It didn't matter what people voted for back then, Edward Heath took us in anyway.

@Michael-yd5ry Ай бұрын

He did his best but know one listened.

@earnestequivocation6250 2 ай бұрын

Yes quite civilised by today’s shouty deflecting obfuscating standards. Powell ironically is often credited with being prescient - yet he was responsible for initiating mass migration - and it took him 6 or 7 years to ‘see the light’.

@MGJS71 21 күн бұрын

A common error. British citizenship law as it stood meant he had no power to block Commonwealth employment in NHS.

@earnestequivocation6250 20 күн бұрын

Oh dear, the point sailed straight past you. A common error. He actively recruited Caribbean nurses He failed to forsee the issue he is so often wrongly credited with anticipating and of course he could just have resigned on a matter of principle. Obvs really.

@MGJS71 20 күн бұрын

@@earnestequivocation6250 it's well established he did not "actively" recruit from the Commonwealth - that's a myth propagated by e.g. Oswald Mosley & strangely taken up in his old party, Labour. Far leftists even claim to have seen Powell recruiting nurses in West Indies, despite the fact he never visited there!

@MGJS71 20 күн бұрын

@@earnestequivocation6250 It's well known that over excited far leftists claim to have seen Powell recruiting nurses in the West Indies - despite the fact he is known never to have travelled there! The myth he "actively" recruited from the New Commonwealth has been regularly demolished over the decades. It was famously propagated by Labour alumnus Sir Oswald Mosley & steangely taken up in his old party.

@williamsays Ай бұрын

Im with Roy

@SagaciousFrank 2 ай бұрын

Don't need to listen, I already know that Jenkins was a quisling.

@freebornjohn2687 2 ай бұрын

"Don't need to listen.." ridiculous nonsense, you should try to have an open mind you might learn something. They had a civilised discussion and both made their points. If we shut out the other side we end up in an echo chamber of self confirming bias which ends in bigotry and being up our own backsides.

@SagaciousFrank 2 ай бұрын

@@freebornjohn2687 , I do have an open mind, and yet it is the left in this country who smears and silences anyone who doesn't agree with their ideology. Roy Jenkins did a lot of damage, primarily with his destruction of what was once regarded as among the best education systems in the world. Now we have one of the worst, full of liberal propaganda. And Labour within three weeks of gaining power have axed a bill protecting freedom of speech in universities. There's your echo chamber for you. Jenkins helped get the ball rolling with the spiteful destruction of free state grammar schools which selected on merit.

@chrislambert9435 2 ай бұрын

@paultaylor7059 Ай бұрын

a terrific and intellectual confrontation but the whole debate was, as i remember it, about economics - about the common MARKET. The UK at that time could barely afford not to be in it. However, we have to wonder now how far Jenkins, Heath and other pro-EECers realised the political consequences of the project - that the EEC would become the EU. Were they deliberately playin it down ? it was the transition from economic community to political union (with the awful Freedom of Movement attached) that led to years of Tory (particularly) division and to Brexit