EV Charge Networks - Why Oh Why!

[@SNORKYMEDIA]

How is it so hard for companies who want to be in this space to realise people dont want 15 RFID tags or apps - just set up chargers to accept contact-free cards and apple/google pay - job done.

[@SirHackaL0t.]

I think they have to now. The issue is the existing chargers that are unreliable and need rfid cards to work.

[@brianholding4357]

@@SirHackaL0t. That is only a recommendation WTF?????

[@SirHackaL0t.]

@@brianholding4357 Name a company who isn’t including a contact free option on their chargers.

[@mrhignettshorses]

Capitalism's hidden hand that solves all problem's?

[@SirHackaL0t.]

@@Brimner426 Instead you have a dependancy on oil companies who don’t want you to move to a full EV.

[@steverichmond7142]

Grant Shapps is the Minister for Transport. I knew him as a student at Manchester Poly ..... Complete Chocolate Fireguard. There should be a level of compliance imposed by HMG on EV charge point suppliers.... Don't hold your breath.

[@diddybopper2052]

Imagine thinking that anyone in high office would have any form of competency in their area.

[@philipbroggio9315]

There is some intention hear by government. www.charlies.co.uk/westland-safe-lawn-natural-lawn-feed-400m.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwtpGGBhBJEiwAyRZX2urmvNqwOu6oF1ZB26cmvOhbgNBZruh9jKO4JaEysChiviPB2aEj1RoCZ3IQAvD_BwE

[@andyemmpee3037]

This level of customer service is the same arrogant, defensive and dismissive service that seems to be endemic throughout most firms in the UK. To say 'well why did you go there then' is a clear indicator that most firms take their customers (and where would any firm be without customers...) arrogantly for granted. Thank you for taking the time to make this video, you are right, it is good to have a rant and let it out!

[@Cardifftoyboy1]

You are right. We are thinking of buying an EV and installed ZAPMAP I was appalled to see how many charges were down between here and a regular journey we make on the M5 and M4....If a railway company show incompetence the franchise is taken away the same should now apply to charging networks. They are muppets!

[@JiltedMonkey]

and that's the one's that are reported as down!

[@Cardifftoyboy1]

@@JiltedMonkey That I find the frightening part Paul.We have shifted our attention to Tesla who do seem to be far more reliable.. I now understand why they are not leaving their customers in the hands of people who are incapable of reliability.

[@MrDexxx]

Zapmap down chargers are user determined and also not accurate. If someone reports a faulty chademo if they mark it incorrectly they mark the entire charge point offline when ccs still works ( same can be said for any charge type) they also report them offline if they failed to get them to work even tho it’s say ‘user error’. None of this helps if you’re planning a route and don’t know the area. You go off the data shown and if it’s marked offline you don’t want to gamble it! :(

[@1grizzlyrizzo]

A nice video to tweet to your local councils and MPs.

[@evaddicted3224]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to share my experience. I have had a Leaf for 6 months now and I love it I every way and I am lucky enough to be able to charge it at home. Two ago my wife and I decided to go to Designer outlet in York which for me is a posh shopping centre. I said to myself, well that charger over there must work. This is a big and busy shopping centre, I have seen there Lamborgini aventador and urus. Guess what, arrived at the charging point and it was off. Charge my car says on the unit. Tried to ring them, 5 times unsuccessfully, nobody was bothered answering the phone. I had to drive 6 miles away to InstaVolt unit to get my car charged and sit there for 20 minutes. Unless you own Tesla, you have got to have plan B, plan C and so on. Although the charging network is rubbish, it is still worth buying an electric car.

[@stephenclay6852]

We traveled that way to Pickering last year and looked at chargers on the way and decided if I needed to charge I would make straight for the insta volt charger. One because they are more reliable and two you don’t need a stupid app nor do you have to deposit money into the companies account. You simply pay as you use it. They are installing these chargers in a lot of Macdonalds and Costa coffee places the sooner the better.

[@evaddicted3224]

@@stephenclay6852 I rarely charge my car on public chargers, however I have used InstaVolt twice only and they are spot on. What irritated me the most was that I couldn't charge the whilst we were shopping. Anyway, if someone passes by Doncaster, there is a shopping centre call Lakeside village where you can charge for free, during the opening times though. 9am to 6pm. As far as I know it always works. Chademo, AC and CCS available.

[@stephenclay6852]

@@evaddicted3224 hi. I to very rarely use public chargers. One I’m lucky to be able to charge from home and two I chose the biggest battery car I could afford the 64 kw Kia e Niro again so i didn’t have to rely on the public chargers and as such only used the chargers at Asda because I can not because I needed them. As for shopping centres meadow hall have a load of chargers now.which I believe are free to.

[@evaddicted3224]

@@stephenclay6852 that's very useful I didn't know that those on meadow hall are free to use

[@terryjimfletcher]

Luckily Gridserve have teamed up with Electric Highway and will be putting at least 6 chargers in at every site (motorway services) within next 1 (2?) years.

[@AdamJermaneJones]

I think there needs to be some legislation to make companies operate in a fair way: 1. No more apps 2. If there’s a problem with the charger, the charger goes on free vend 3. Chademo support for at least 15 more years 4. Free recovery from a charge location if you can’t continue your journey

[@domtdoodar99]

15 years chademo support isn't really necessary as CCS retrofits will become a thing certainly within 5years (probably within 2-3 years). Company in the Netherlands called Muxsan is working on it currently

[@funb0b]

100% Adam

[@stamfordly6463]

I suspect there will be legislation in the next Queen's Speech covering the whole EV infrastructure as more manufacturers release vehicles and there's a consensus on what technologies will be preferred. I would expect there to be an industry consultation first though, not least because serious consideration will need to be given to grid upgrades for charging sites and that's going to be a major infrastructure project. I would expect a ban on mandatory apps to use chargers (but maybe some sort of discount or pre-pay system will remain), some sort of rules mandating some sort of free "get you to the next town" boost but probably not completely free vend and maybe some sort of recovery or mobile recharge service with the company with the duff charger paying if it's been out of action for more than a certain time. I don't think this government will want to interfere with the market much otherwise though.

[@hamshackleton]

@@domtdoodar99 - so you have to take your car over there to be 'repaired' to work?

[@odinnln5694]

add 24hr telephone support with a 30 second answering time target. Answered by a real trained person who can help, not a machine. I believe legislation has been promised but don't hold your breath.

[@jamescoyle1193]

The UK Government need to legislate, any problems with the charger (except safety checks) should click over to free-vend dumb mode. Pre-Auth should also be capped at a sensible limit by legislation, otherwise companies really do take the p***

[@terryrodbourn2793]

Maybe a law that if they don’t support their own network charge them with false advertising!

[@jimf4748]

The situation in Scotland is quite good. I live in a small town (Pop 9000) yet it has 6x50KW rapid and 8x22Kw fast all on free vend thanks to ChargePlaceScotland who still have about 1200 free chargers in Scotland. I live in a Victorian flat so I have to use public charges and in all the time I've had my Leaf I've never spent a single penny to charge. Most towns here and indeed villages, have good modern chargers and reliability seems good.

[@vandit83]

Agreed. Things are generally better in Scotland I feel. Mostly being under the same CPS banner helps. When I go down south, it’s a lot…messier…

[@grahamleiper1538]

Think the server issue he's referring to was the CPS failure last year. Essentially why CYC have lost the contract. On CCS, CPS can be a bit of a lottery to put it mildly. Chademo tends to be much more reliable. CPS starting to charge in a lot of areas will hopefully mean other networks see a point to providing competing chargers. Tesla tax is very much worth paying at the moment.

[@jumbo994]

We just did a trip from norfolk to kent today. Started at Necton Instavolt , Braintree Gridserve mid point , then home. Amazing charging points and a dream journey for the 40kwh leaf.

[@SirHackaL0t.]

Braintree is great. We need more of them and quickly.

[@gravydavy4188]

Necton is great, just how they should be, it seems very quick as well, I stopped just for a top up and it only took 15 minutes to put 10 kwh in my Leaf.

[@PNH750]

The truths always hurts!!! In my wife's Hyundai, she drives into the petrol station grabs a pump, fills her car and then pays by a Debit card. Alternatively, she flashes the card in advance fills her car and then drives off. Each relatively quick and easy. With my EV, generally I first need to sort out whether the charge point is free and not been ICED, check the connector suits my car, then mess around with a mobile phone. eg. scanning a code, accessing an app or calling for help. The whole charge point system needs simplifying with regard to accessing and paying.

[@seamusandpat]

In our seaside town in North Norfolk where on sunny weekends and during the summer there can be 3-4000 cars visiting for the day or weekend. There are 2 public EV charging points. And this town basically depends on visitors for it's livelihood. There are no publicly available Tesla charge points within a 45 mile radius. There are a few single or double 'customer only' points along the coast at 7kw or 11kw, in hotels etc. Something HAS to be done and soon.

[@stewardjames]

If you use Ionity regularly it's worth getting an Octopus Energy Electric Juice card to avoid the pre-auth issue (it's slightly cheaper too). No excuse for the excessive pre-auth mind you!

[@wkjezzworkingonstuff2401]

YES! Very good advice. They sent me one and it its made life so much easier

[@johnlester6113]

Please send a copy of this, to every Chairman/CEO of all companies!!

[@spaldi01]

You can't imagine all of BPs petrol stations been unable to take payment because of a server problem

[@awestrope74]

I’ve known the entire MasterCard system be down so it can happen but I agree it shouldn’t!

[@Lewis_Standing]

Happened to me in Tesco before, no visa cards could be used

[@diddybopper2052]

@@Lewis_Standing the thing is, when you go to Tesco you don’t have a fear in the back of your mind that that might happen because it’s so uncommon.

[@Bobbleoff]

I personally think it's down to the profits their making. Having a machine down for months and months may cost less then a fix and they just cut there losses

[@TheophilusPWildbeest]

Or turning you away because your car or card is only compatible with Shell.

[@YS-cs8yq]

You should be able to say I want £10 of charge then stop. That way they cannot reserve more then that from your card.

[@bathfun]

I totally enjoy your rants, keep those moans coming. Radical suggestion, include the white board in the rant, gives it gravity.

[@TonyOrc]

"Governmental level of incompetence" - Love it!!

[@davemortensen]

As a 30k miles per year electric car user, most of my driving is beyond range, meaning I need to recharge. While I agree with your experience, in my experience last year, for every out of service charger I experienced, there were a dozen within a mile or so which were working. Total inconvenience I agree, but not the end of the world. Also, we all know which networks are always broken, so I simply avoid them. I have a Tesla, so have access to their supercharger network, which is by far and away the best you could imagine or hope for. Because they are not always handy, I have also registered free with 3 networks and one subscribed for a monthly fee (this gives me half price charging and savings always exceed the fee). Wherever I am I can easily and quickly charge my car. I ALWAYS check the app to see which show broken chargers. So I agree with your much deserved rant. Name and shame the offenders. It might speed up the rate of change, but I am already seeing that change. Many chargers I use now accept contactless payment and need no subscription. Excellent! With supermarket and fast food outlets now installing rapid chargers, so you can shop or eat your burger meal while your car charges, I hope they will put pressure on the networks for reliability.

[@funb0b]

Are you a hammer? Because you've nailed it.

[@dindu42]

Absolutely spot on - I recently tried to drive a Zoe from Peterborough to Boston via Kings Lynn. Round trip - just in range in theory - only 1 charging location on route with reasonable charging speed and available. When I got there it did not recognise my membership card. Only one of the three points was working and I had to stand out in the rain talking through the problem over the phone get it working.

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

Yep, people really underestimate the importance of this component of the ecosystem, these companies need to study Tesla's approach and standardize around a similar system for keeping their facilities reliable and convenient: - More stalls per station, two or four stalls wont cut it. - Integrated navigation system within the vehicle to help plan trips, select charging locations needed along the way, show how many stalls are available, how fast they charge, and how much they cost, and perhaps some details about nearby amenities, all done automatically. - A simple handshake between the EV and the charger: You drive in, you plug it, and that's it, it handles payment processing automatically, and you just go and sit in the car instead of waiting by the outlet. - Clear billing and charging info right on the car's screen. - High speed charging ability, and reliable predictable delivery of power for that vehicle, right out of the box. Proactively make it work, rather than let users find out if their EV works with this charger on a good day or not. - Proper maintenance, this one does not need to be said, but some of these operators don't get this apparently. Until then it's going to turn off people, they just want to go to the station, plug their EV in and be done with it. It's supposed to be easier, not harder, than fueling at a gas pump.

[@usaverageguy]

Last year, on Labor Day weekend, one of America's biggest holiday weekends. Electrify America decided to shut down all of their chargers on I-95 in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia, for replacement. There was no warning in advance. No Emails sent. No public announcements were sent out. Hundreds of EVs were stranded in the middle of their vacations. THAT IS INCOMPETENCE.

[@odinnln5694]

Yeah, well they are Americans.

[@usaverageguy]

@@odinnln5694 Yep

[@DaraM73]

The simple fact is the entire network needs regulated and shared. Cant leave pricing etc to private companies or cartels.

[@GrahamRead101]

Price setting is the last thing we want government to do, it’ll kill investment. What they can do is mandate minimum service levels

[@DaraM73]

@@GrahamRead101 but as demonstrable in every privately owned public utility, little to no investment occurs, only a fragmented service and sky rocketing pricing.

[@GrahamRead101]

@@DaraM73 ?? There’s a lot of investment by private utilities, particularly in renewable generation - the U.K. grid now regularly runs at over 50% renewable sources, unheard of only a few years ago. The U.K. pricing of electricity is about the EU average.

[@diddybopper2052]

Absolutely not! We do not need this to be controlled by the government! We don’t do the same for petrol stations. It just needs to work!

[@DaraM73]

@@GrahamRead101energy prices are heading to 7% increase to households just this year, switching supplier is notoriously fraught, maintaining infrastructure outsourced and shareholder dividends the same old story of fat cats lining pockets while services suffer. Name one sector that was publicly owned that now reinvests profit?

[@MrSupergee]

I have a 2014 Leaf and a 2015 Tesla Model S - The Tesla Superchargers always work, turn up, plug in and rapid charge. With the Leaf it's always an adventure - apps, cards, keyfobs, calling the number to get it working, chargers not working, looks like it's working but then fails, waiting on the phone, only one charge point, people parked at one spot all day etc etc - so much of a pain that we only use the Leaf for the school run and running around locally. I'm in BC Canada but the problem seems worldwide.

[@rogerbarton497]

c1970 I was a field service engineer working on banks' IT equipment. We had a guaranteed four-response time, and that meant on-site within four hours. We didn't have mobile phones or computerised help desks. We rang in from a cuustomer's premises for our next job and the call handling was done by using bits of paper and pigeon holes. It worked perfectly.

[@josephs8829]

AMEN ,thanks for speaking the truth !

[@cbromley562]

This was a very good, relevant video. Like many other buyers, we stumped up the extra few thousand for a Tesla SR+. Again, like many other Tesla owners, I’ve never bought a new car in 5 decades of driving...every single one has gone to scrap. In short, although we looked at the excellent Zoe, Ioniq and Kona, it was clear that it had to be the Tesla, if we wanted stress free driving...around Europe, anywhere. It’s a superb vehicle with a world class charger network. The car’s paying us back big time. Our neighbours do under 3,000 miles a year. They’re getting a Zoe, and it will be superb, for them. Ecotricity have 12 useful pumps at Rugby...yay! Only taken 12 years. Instavolt are looking good?

[@BRI535D]

Excellent rant Electric Vehicle Man! I echo your sentiments entirely and hope that something good can come of this.It makes me laugh how some of these networks want hefty preauthorisation payments and or subscriptions!!! They can shove those where the sun don't shine and I'm not even from Yorkshire.Just to let you know that incompetence abounds everywhere,I reported a fully blocked road drain 18 days ago, email response within 24 hours received and guess what.Yes still blocked.Keep up good work.

[@williamfence566]

Followed your channel for years and love the rant !. Never been to a Petrol station and wasn't able to fill up !!!!!!!! Stick with my hybrid for a few more years

[@triviabuff5682]

I once drove into a BP / M&S station on a Wednesday evening only find that none of the pumps were working. It was the same story with the diesel, so 3 of us went inside to ask why there was no fuel and no signs to say the pumps weren't working. We were told that they were all M&S staff and that they had no responsibility for the forecourt. Their manager had forgotten to order a tanker on Monday, so the next tanker wouldn't be there until next Tuesday. I asked whose responsibility it was to call the Fire Brigade if there was a fire on the forecourt? Answer came there none. So, EVM, you're right, it's the people, not the technology every time.

[@bellshooter]

Well I have been to a petrol station and not been able to fill up for; power failure, petrol shortage, industrial action. It happens.

[@AB-yt4hd]

@@bellshooter Yes, but it is maybe 1 petrol station, not a lot of them. You go to the next and you will be able to refill. And they are not out of service for weeks or months as is too often the case for some chargers.

[@anthonylloyd4425]

Excellent rant. It was a major factor in us moving from a bmw i3 (Rex - so could still use petrol..) to a newer EV. We went Tesla because a) more range b) the absolute reliability of the supercharger network. We often go to Lincolnshire and charge half way at Leicester Services, in the 5 years of doing this I would say 50% of the time they have not worked. It's diabolical and the people who run the networks that have failed units should be ashamed of themselves for not addressing the issues quicker and marking units as not working as soon as they know they aren't on any apps people can use.

[@davelocktalk]

The government needs to get a grip on this and do some work to get it fixed fast!

[@robfj3414]

You are so right. In general, We don’t need electric cars with longer range and probably never did. What we need is infrastructure with proper attention to the details; support, maintenance and location.

[@MrDexxx]

This is my dilemma. A car with a range of 80-150 (weather dependant) and can only rapid twice in any single long journey before it reduces speed significantly for future chargers or batteries cool. But I can’t use my range to get to a charge point as I usually need at least a 20 mile reserve just to go find alternative charge points. Two reasons. Either unavailable through fault or unavailable through occupancy and already a queue…. A good charge structure means range is less of an impact. Pricing is a consideration as much as @EVM has no issue with expensive charge points you have to look at cost too and some of the pricing is unrealistic. Even at 35/39p/kWh you’re looking at diesel prices per mile with none of the fuelling convenience.. 25p/kWh should be the benchmark currently. There should be enough markup on their wholesale electric costs to cover revenue expenses if they had a reliable actively used network… like say another EV manufacturer…. My choice in next ev won’t be for the ev as such but more for its charge network!

[@SteveJones-om6ks]

100% Wrong. We need cars with greater and greater range to minimise the risk and impact of charger unavailability. Range isnt just about single trip distance....it also means less frequency of visits to chargers for your routine usage. The more leeway people have between needing to charge the less stress there is if you cant get on a charger that very minute.

[@robfj3414]

In response to Liam and Steve. Where on earth could you possibly be going regularly that you need that much range? I’m guessing Liam lives in Great Britain because he is quoting prices in British currency. I’m also guessing that Liam is driving a Leaf when he describes how weather dependent his short range vehicle appears to be. Early Nissan Leafs and several other EVs of that time were (and still are from what I gather) notorious for having absolutely zero battery management systems; An issue they share with Tesla oddly enough. Hence, the trouble with using fast chargers more than once on a long drive or cold weather driving reducing range substantially. I’m guessing Steve may not actually be driving and EV of his own as of yet and is coming to certain conclusions from what he has read rather than extensive personal experience. If I’m wrong about this, Steve, I would like to know what you are driving, how long you have a driving your EV and what part of the world you drive in. I have been driving a first generation Hyundai Ioniq through four Canadian winters with a commute that is 70 km each way and have never once seen my range go below 180 km even in the coldest winter days. And I guarantee you that my cold winter days are far more frigid than when you get in Britain. When I first got my EV car in 2017, infrastructure here in Ontario was virtually non-existent. In the four years since, I have seen major changes in that regard and I can now drive everywhere from Lake Superior to Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island without concerns; roughly equal to the distance from Paris to Athens. I will admit that part of the reason I don’t have to worry about charge stations as much as European drivers and British drivers might is because electric vehicles are so much less common in North America as of yet compared to the volume of infrastructure available now. It does take some research to make a long trip and I do insure I have secondary options in case a charge station is malfunctioning but this is the price you pay for being an early adopter of any new technology. It’s not all supposed to be about your convenience. It’s supposed to be about escaping fossil fuels and setting an example.

[@SteveJones-om6ks]

@@robfj3414 E-Niro3 on order following a 2 week trial through work. Cant charge at home and only put the order in when work confirmed they were putting chargers in my office car park. Assuming you have the common affliction that you charge at home so you think anyone can?. Having miles in the car means more flexibility in when you need to find a charger. Thats just common sense. It needs to be convenient or we wont be escaping fossil fuels. Don't kid yourself its otherwise. No-one is going to care a stuff for the planet if they are at 5% on the battery with a screaming child in the back and its touch and go to get to a charger. Range and battery capacity are the only thing that is important.

[@robfj3414]

@@SteveJones-om6ks funny you should say that because you’re right. I do have a charger installed at home. That being said, I’ll run right to your last argument. I have friends who live on a sailboat Who must go to alternative charging stations to charge their car all the time. They don’t even have the convenience of chargers at work. And they do have a family. But they do it anyway because it’s setting the example for their family. Not unlike living on the boat. Takes a bit of planning but you adapt. Just curious. Are you in a situation where you can’t have a home charger?

[@paulhumphries3795]

I thought you covered just about every problem I have encountered in 3 years of EV charging, then I bought a Tesla and boy has it improved….👍

[@peterowen4456]

Similar sentiments to a recent video by EV Opinion who came close to saying he couldn't recommend an EV to people who regularly needed to charge away from home. The state of the charging network is the only reason I haven't bought an EV - yes I am risk averse and the opposite of an early adopter - but I seriously would like an EV - I've driven a couple and love them to bits as a driving experience and with issues around air quality being so prominent these days I think there is a strong moral case for them. However, I regularly look at zap map (loads of chargers down), whenever I stop at a motorway services I do a quick check of the EV chargers and so many are down and the Electric Highway "pumps" look like something from the early industrial revolution. I'm getting on a bit and I am currently on a PCP with a petrol car. That car will be replaced with a hybrid when the time comes. Excellent video and I hope the right people take notice.

[@catmantech]

It reminds me of the home energy smart meter network, with the Gen1 smart meters. If you switch supplier your meter turns dumb. With the rollout of the Gen2 smart meters the government said this had to change and they are now making one national smart meter network for all energy suppliers to use. Maybe it would be a better idea to have a similar setup for EV charging points where there is a single well maintained network of chargers with providers charging for energy used once you finish charging.

[@bellshooter]

The Rapid charging and local destination public chargers infrastructure is on the cusp of getting better. It has already improved in the last 12 Months and is due to be vastly improved within 2021. Osprey, BP Pulse and Instavolt have been installing new chargers or modifying existing chargers to have a contactless option. Electric Highway is replacing it's woeful chargers with new contactless (Gridserve/Tritium ) ones, and Gridserve will add 6-12 Rapids at each services and build mega hubs. The real area where nothing has been done is 'elegant failure' , the only area where EH got it right, failure mode should be free vend where possible.

[@cherrion11265]

Fingers crossed the Gridserve-Ecotricity tie up leads to real improvement on the motorways. Gridserve operate the new chargers but they have Ecotricity branding, plus they've talked about rolling out plug & charge this year as well.

[@norfolkmustard]

Interesting that only a couple of days before Rugby opened they had normal/entirely electric highway livery. Just before they opened they got the Gridserve stickers on the front and GSxxxx serial numbers

[@allyliddiard7320]

@@norfolkmustard Gridserve will take over the system eventually, old Dale will cash out.

[@moonprobe8751]

What about a webpage rating the charger companies with statistics for their reliability, performance and coverage, like they had for mobile phone companies in the early days? If the information is clear in black and white then the companies will have a strong incentive to improve and compete. The webpage could either be private eg AA or RAC or government run, eg Ofcharge??

[@norfolkmustard]

Plugshare and ZapMap have this against each charger, they could easily aggregate it.

[@mikesmith666]

Don't always agree with your views but you're spot on today. One word sums it up and you said it. Incompetence

[@TheKingpleb]

Today at 1300hrs, Saturday 15th May the podpoint network fell over. Rapids locked out, fast/slow posts timing out after 15mins and people stranded. Again another failure. We need to get this mandated that they need to go to freevend when the network comma fail.

[@georgebuxton4834]

Just ordered a VW id.3 and waiting delivery. Excited but worried about accessibility for disabled drivers at public chargers. Great place for information. Brilliant job.

[@timeast6412]

Well said EVM,with more ev’s around this can only get worse,at least in the short term.If Government were serious about EV’s they should have set minimum standards for chargers long ago.In the end it will probably be sorted, but for now it’s a pain especially for women drivers who don’t want to faff about.

[@uktechie8013]

It is all about building in redundancy as you say, multiple charges, multiple comms, better software

[@bellshooter]

Totally agree , at services you need multiple rapid pumps, and in public parking you need multiple standard chargers.

[@PaulSouthport]

Last year went camping in South Wales. A virtual desert for rapid chargers. Found a working rapid in a Llandovery car park. Decent price, bingo! Thought, "I know, that's a keeper, we'll stop here on the way back!". No. 2 days later, wouldn't charge on CCS. We didn't have enough range to get to any other known working charger (read Instavolt, I don't include BP/Polar in that description). Several hours on call and many, many attempts to charge, to the point my credit card was blocked for exceeding the transactions in a given time. Gave up and limped to Leominster Instavolt, got there with 1% battery. Charged. Went home. Instavolt = end of story.

[@georgedaville4662]

I was involved in the installation of some of the very early chargers in 2009, primarily at Nissan dealerships, but also some public chargers. The whole set up was Heath Robinson, and it looks like it ain’t moved on too much, apart from Tesla. They built the charging network, then sold the cars - simples 👍👍😂

[@TheKingpleb]

Polar/pulse are truely, truely shocking. I think it now needs to be a legal mandate that fines are imposed for ultra/rapids being offline for more than 24hrs. And also that if there are network issues it should go to freevend straight away or they face fines of £2000 per unit they have that wasn't usable.

[@thorbjrnhellehaven5766]

So spot on! Reliability of chargers, is the most important. If app says OK it should be. Multiple devichargers at locations. To avoid massive build-up of que. Easier payment solutions. Not only relying on phone to be charged up, and connected to a network, to connect to a server, to send start up command to charger, if all devices are online.

[@dg115]

Get rid of the stupid apps and just have contactless payments. The government need to grow a pair and stop this madness.

[@neddyl1225]

When I saw your banner for this video, I thought "This should be good for another EVM, Yorkshire rant." You didn't disappoint! I agree with your sentiments and feel your frustration. 😞😩😠

[@buster6093]

while in ranting mode EVM, can we have one about costs with regards to other countries. (rough example) (UK)Mini ev - £26k (£2.5k grant) = £23.5k (Built in Oxford!) (US)Mini ev - $26k ($7.5k grant) = $19.5k (Shipped from Oxford!?) =£13,830 At the US price Mini's would be everywhere on UK roads I feel!

[@TassieEV]

Maybe there needs to be harsh financial penalties for any charger that is down for more than a certain length and also charge networks are required by law to have 24/7 support who can actually assist and have to answer the phone within say 5min. But as someone else mentioned name and shame. I know here in Australia the two largest charge providers if payment doesn't work they don't leave you stranded the charge still goes ahead just sort out payment after.

[@OracleTruthSeer]

I really enjoy a Friday rant.

[@liamtheurchin5569]

The manager comment is true across all industries. No manager actually manages anything by which I mean they react to issues usually by making a number of phone calls to get someone else involved! Would love to see the unedited version of this video for the full explosive rants that really felt like they were coming. 🙂

[@eustonr]

Nice rant :) I've had my electric mini about 8 months now. Due to lockdown, we havent really done many long trips, but the few we've had hasnt been much of a problem. Thats because when I have to use a public charger I use the ZapMap app to filter out the shoddy networks. So I will choose (in order) a) Instavolt (best around) b) shell recharge c) Osprey . If there's none of those within range, my fall backs are Ionity, or Pod Point. I wont consider the others, unless there's no other option. And so far, I've not had an issue with any public charge not working - the only issue I've had is a) people parking their EV in the bays and not charging (because they think its an EV parking spot), and b) ICE cars parking in the bays - THATS what really winds me up.

[@drew9312]

Parliamentary Committees managing this debacle need to have the likes of you there spoon feeding solutions to the incompetents. Great video.

[@richardglover314]

Great video. The fundamentals have to be hammered home if the issue is to be resolved long term. I put it that way because to be fair we have come a long way in the last ten years and over the rest of this decade governments, auto makers and service providers need to bang their heads together. Some people advocate paying by card, others by an app but I advocate, pay with my car. Why? because in all my 50+ years of driving the one thing I have never failed to have with when arriving to fill the vehicle I am arriving in, is the vehicle I have arrive in. I don't want to communicate directly with the pump, I want my car to do the talking. I simply want to introduce my vehicle to the pump by plugging in and the implicit demand is, start charging. It is not in my interest to be stranded at the pump and legislation should make it such that it is not in the interest of the service provider that my vehicle is not stranded at the pump. So just two fundamentals, I arrive with my vehicle in good working order and it gets charged. Payment is very much a secondary matter and should not interfere with the fundamental issues.

[@Fishbait075]

Nottinghamshire here. Very well served by Tesco Free-vend Podpoints. Infact, other than home charging, I've so far, only ever used Podpoints at either Tesco, or Lidl. Nottingham City Council has a network (D2N2), which recently started supporting contactless, but prior to that was a RFID subscription, however, the closest of their chargers to me is so much in dis-repair, its just had a black bin liner put over it, and plastered with Yellow "Fragile" tape. :(

[@petearmstrong2778]

A couple of points for improvement - 1) Payment by credit or debit card - local and international cards for foreign cars 2) chargers to be monitored for up/downtime - fines imposed for downtime and fix required within time period. If that fails, removal from network Govt or motoring bodies (AA/RAC/new body) should be monitoring and enforcing rules - EV charging will become a critical national infrastructure issue just like the National Grid. Uptime is critical for the productivity of the country (this is not just cars but will include commercial vehicles)

[@iantrott9152]

An excellent and truthful video :) As a disabled person who has been an EV user for the last six years you also have to add into the mix that the vast majority of Rapid Chargers simply aren’t wheelchair accessible... and they are still being installed that way :( The Government needs to take a lead on all of this issues so that we have a framework of regulations similar to those that forecourts have to comply with... it’s really not difficult :)

[@popp1nfresh723]

This and only this is the reason why I had to go for a Tesla Model 3 and no other electric car. I can charge at home but for the few times a year where I do long journeys from London to Scotland to see family I could not deal with anything but 99.9% reliability which is what Tesla gives you.

[@julianday5528]

Same here

[@gap9992]

Good to highlight the charging network issues - the biggest barrier to greater uptake of EVs We bought a Smart EQ as a local runabout but we like it so much we thought we might go for a run beyond the point of no return, which is not far in the EQ! Now, I have watched a few videos on KZbin so decided to try some public 23KW chargers before embarking on our great adventure. BP pulse - downloaded the App, stuck some money in my account. Sometimes worked and sometimes didn't. Twice it caused an alert to come up in the car which stopped me from charging at home - at least until the fault cleared itself after a few hours for no obvious reason. GeniePoint - refused to charge a couple of times using the App so I bought an RFID card and it seems to work with that (plus only plugging in AFTER starting the charge procedure) I decided to try Shell Recharge and that said card accepted but then nothing happened - probably because I was not doing things in exactly the correct order? Anyway I tried to start the charge with a coupe of different cards and eventually managed to start it. I had a £20 pending charge on AmEx for 5 days despite the fact that I didn't actually buy any juice using that card! lol. I don't mind the pre-authorisation but why does it have to be in a name that makes no mention of Shell at all and just looks like a random pending transaction that I never made One good thing that came from the BP Pulse fault messages is that I took the car back and they updated the software. Seems they come out of the factory with old software and the dealer is supposed to run an update. It didn't sort out the charging at one particular BP Pulse charger but I have not had problems elsewhere so it is probably just a fault with that charger? Oh, also when I bought the car I could not find DAB radio and was told that Apple Car Play had replaced it, despite the brochure saying it had DAB and Apple CarPlay. Anyway, after the software updates I DO now have DAB radio !

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Why isn't there a standard prepayment system where you took up to a charger, swipe your card (or better still NFC phone and select an *amount* in currency you wish to pay? (The same thing we've done with cash dispensers for 50 years?) The charger tells yo the amount in kWh you'll receive as a check, you select "OK" and *that* cash amount is reserved. You insert the charge cable and (hopefully) the charger works. Better still, the government (small "g") should mandate CCS3 Plug and charge for ALL systems before there are so many sites it's impossible. After all, one company has proved it can be done.

[@davidstuart4915]

legislate that if outlet remains out of service for more than 1 hr, it defaults to no authorisation required until fixed Phone support must be answered within 3 mins and if issue not resolved within further 3 mins, outlet switches to no authorisation required If not resolved within 24 hrs, outlet switches to no bill too until fixed Simples :)

[@RoyDanby]

It is ridiculous that they hold the pre authorised funds for so long. At the diesel pump it pre approves £100, then only charges the actual amount and refunds the rest immediately. How much are they making in interest on all the held money. Boils my piss!

[@alaneasthope2357]

Imagine if petrol stations were unable to pump fuel. The army would be called out with portable pumps and questions would be asked in parliament. My first ever trip byond the range of my EV was on the M5 so I called into the services to charge . . . Yep, you guessed it.

[@terryjimfletcher]

The problem with electric charge points is that there's no TANK OF ELECTRICITY underground tying up money - the electricity is just on the grid so there is less of an incentive to get these points fixed.

[@gavjlewis]

Well that didn't happen in 2000 with the fuel protests where all the petrol stations closed. It didn't happen in 2012 after panic buying caused many to run out. Where was the army when I couldn't get loo roll last year!

[@alaneasthope2357]

@@gavjlewis In 2000, questions were asked in parliament, at the emergency COBRA meeting, where plans were drawn up to deploy the military to move the fuel. The fuel strike ended before the military could be mobilised. You are right about the loo roll though. (I bet the politicians wiped their bums on their white papers)

[@grahamparker7729]

Great video. I’ve got a Tesla and haven’t experienced this (Tesla Superchargers have been great) but I can imagine just how frustrating it must be. These companies really need to get their act together.

[@didierpuzenat7280]

I have noticed that with Tesla, on the supercharger network, the car charges even if there is a payment problem. I had this issue once because the credit card configured in my account was not anymore valid. However I got a SMS *after* the charge saying that I have to solve the issue before the next supercharge. However I understand it is easy for Tesla since the client will unlikely disappear.

[@EliteSniper-240]

Glad u did this. I've been considering a plug in hybrid as I rent a property and can't get home charging. Luckily there is a tesco right next to me that has installed charge points that's free to use, the thing that puts me off is 1, if they're always working, 2, how long it would take to charge. Its so confusing on what charge you get from the charger and what your car will accept.

[@richardwaller7721]

Absolutely agree with the general point - i.e. things are getting a lot better but are nowhere near where they need to be to encourage mass uptake beyond first adopters. Last few days of a holiday up in Scotland and there’s a sense that the Charge Place Scotland network is improving more rapidly with the appearance of new rapids to fill in gaps in provision and expansion of existing sites to provide small hubs rather than single units.

[@jamesmontgomery4492]

My local golf course/park has 2 chargers, and almost every weekend I see the same BMW i8 parked in a charge bay not even plugged in. Hope I'm there the day it gets towed.

[@mcdon2401]

Hopefully some more EV owners will complain that they can't get a charge because someone is hogging the space 🤔

[@davidsworld5837]

i know one charger that one of only 2 cars are always on charging when ever go past during the week it is unfair for one or two people to own a public charger and not give others fair use of a charger I turned up on a sunday to find one spot ICED when i can back the car was still there BUT he had a parking ticket on the smile on my face. two weeks later went back on a sunday to find the same car with another parking ticket

[@michaelbetts809]

This video could have been written for me. The situations described have happened to me as a relatively new EV user. Long phone calls, no help, getting stressed because I couldn't charge and having to find another charger with no guarantee that would work. Unbelievable ! I really like the car (Nissan Leaf 40kW) but as in the video I am considering reverting to a IC car because of the poor charging situation. On a positive note I can praise the Instavolt network. Drive up, contactless, charge, drive off. Perfect. Why can't they all be like this ?

[@CheBKnights]

I own a Smart EQ ForTwo, live in South Manchester and have relatives in Wensleydale. Admittedly with my cars range I'm guaranteed to have to split my journey even during the summer, and am figuring the nearest thing to a sensible route is via Skipton because there's several disparate charging options, and if all else fails there'll be places I can sleep. As an ecotricity consumer I love the idea of using their pumps, but I daren't since it looks like it would only be a matter of time before I got stuck (barring the Gridserve upgrades).

[@brushlessmotoring]

Great Rant! Charge networks absolutely deserve it. I worry that Electrify America / Canada, whose buildout is funded by VW's Diesel Gate fines, will end-up with the same fate as Ecotricity (pre Grid Serve investment) where there just isn't the station revenue to keep them in good, timely, order. We will see. When getting people to try out an EV, I hate to say it - I try not to be a fanboy - but it has to be a Tesla ... doesn't mean they are going to buy one, or that it's the right car for them - or that they have to like the brands sometimes toxic side effects - but it gives them the view of what other brands EV charging *will* be like eventually, so they don't get dissuaded on their first EV adventure. I hope it doesn't take a decade to get a Super Charger competitor.

[@briankavanagh7191]

Brushless, when was the last time you saw a tesla charger on the high street, never they are on motorways or just off them, I do agree that the range of teslas out strip most of the cars today but the new ones coming out have caught up.

[@kateevans4892]

I couldn't agree more - I've got an EV and I love it but it's only got a range of 90 miles. If I have to go on a long journey I will have to hire an ICE car. I'm a single woman over 70 and I'm scared of running out of range; especially at night. Keep Ranting!!!!

[@markbloxham2671]

I agree wholeheartedly with all of your points to the extent that I plan for the ineptitude of these companies. I have ground away the locking tabs on my type 2 cable so I will never have to wait an hour to get my cable released for example (BP!). On the plus side though, I now plan on using rapid chargers on my routes that should require payment but are so full of bugs they have defaulted to free charging.

[@edwardmellor342]

I have a Renault Zoe, 41Kwh. I don't have a home charger. The local 22kw chargers are unreliable on speed of charge. Sometimes I only get 7 to 9 Kw in an hour and get a £10 penalty if I stay more than 70 minutes. It means I have to spend many hours sat in the car waiting for it to charge. I'm thinking of going back to petrol.

[@CRIPVW]

The charge companies should have a duty of care slapped on them. With fines for late repair and extended network outages. To ensure they look after their network. So they don’t leave people stranded.

[@stephenclay6852]

Hi totally agree with you. What these companies have got to realise is your not going to these chargers for the fun of it no it’s because you need it. I do believe if you can’t connect with the app it should be on free vend that should be law. That way if they have to give you electricity for free they would soon get it sorted. The other point is it needs multiple chargers at locations in case of failure of one of the chargers. But this is why I won’t subscribe and pay a monthly fee plus hold my money in the charge companies account. Why all can’t be contactless is beyond me and why you should have to pay more for that privilege. You don’t subscribe to petrol companies so what’s the difference. But as for the electric highway until grid serve have upgraded all there chargers I will not use them. Finally this is why I wonted the biggest battery car I could afford at the time which was the 64 kw Kia e Niro so that I didn’t have to rely to much on the public charging net work. By the way I love the car and won’t to stick with Ev’s I love the way they drive but live in hope that the charging info structure improves over time ( not to longer a time ).

[@davidstuart4915]

excellent rant - need more naming and shaming to Try and improve things - roll on cordless with auto transponder recognition which bills your account

[@NickFoster]

We’ve just leased our first EV, hopefully coming next month. This poor reliability of the public charging infrastructure is exactly why we’ve stretched our budget to a Tesla Model 3. The super charger network is worth the additional cost.

[@gordonmoore1838]

Spot on with the problems. Researching and finding on Zap-Map various issues ultimately lead me to purchase a PHEV and not a full EV. Also I do not have a driveway, street parking only. I currently do not see how on street charging can be implemented for the millions of owners in the same situation as I am. In my town there are two public charge points plus two on technically private land but can be used. Then 6 in the grounds of two hotels, two are restricted to hotel customers, the other four look as if they are for anyone but that won't be the intention of the hotel. At present I don't see how large scale charging which will be suddenly required from 2030 onwards will be put in place.

[@ElectricCarAustralia]

Honest video's on user experience always help those thinking of buying an EV. Similar network issues here in Australia. We've had great experience with Chargefox, pretty ordinary with Evie.

[@darrenhitt1569]

I Drive a ZS EV but have recently trialled a Tesla Model 3 long range and a MG5 EV. These trials were for understanding if our work cars could go from diesel to electric with current network. During 1 week with MG I had 4 failed charges on pulse and instavolt. 2 chargers turned up to show as active on the app and available to find no power on arrival. 1 instance of arriving to a single bay charger just as another car was reversing into the bay. I love my car and home charging is great but the network does need improving e.g more bays per location.

[@ianrobins5501]

Great video. I'm not an EV owner yet (this is not the reason why I'm not an EV owner) but agree what you say on the bases of what I have read seen etc over the last year or 2 based on people experiences. I think some issue go beyond the just the charger themself's. I think it was someone from BP pulse said don't just blame the charger for failing to start the charge its the car. We'll I say why the bloody hell aren't you ensuring that you have to all the details from that manufacturer protcals programed and tested into your system ( yes I know there are standards that at time are no followed) to make sure it will alway work before the car is release onto the market or as soon as a car is released. It is unexcetable to blame another company for poor communication. In the end people will just use your chargers eg like electric highway. For me it would be great to see a video from some one explaining what is actually goes on during the inilisation phase and what causes to fail.

[@williamarmstrong7199]

I could not agree more! Ecotricity have been slowing down the adoption of EV cars more or less since they started putting their terrible unreliable chargers on motorway services and worse still stopped anyone else replacing them. They were by far the wrong company to be allowed to get that contract. Polar are now rapidly following the Ecotricity behaviour. Their support is getting much worse. BP have done Polar no favours and the EV community nothing but harm.

[@jarthurs]

Some back of envelope calculations show that ICE vehicles have a ratio of 494 cars per petrol pump in the UK, at the moment the ratio of BEV cars per rapid is somewhere around 60 BEV per rapid, which on the face of it doesn't look too bad even factoring in that you'll spend ten times longer at a rapid than filling with petrol/diesel for a better range. So what's the issue? Geographical coverage of rapids is pretty patchy compared with petrol forecourts and when you get to a charger there is often zero redundancy, if the single charger is out or a technical issue takes out a pair of chargers then no charge for you. It's not uncommon to go to petrol station and find a yellow tag hanging off of a nozzle to show it's out of service, but when you have 11 other pumps to choose from it's not an issue, rarely do you find an entire filling station closed. Greater redundancy is needed, but we're still not yet to the tipping point where the high capital expenditure of building a location is likely to reap the instant rewards that investors demand. It's companies like Gridserve backed by funding from Hitachi Capital UK that will get there first and reap the long term rewards, lets just hope it's soon.

[@PantsManUK]

Must be 'cause I live in South London; I can't have a home charger, so I rely on the public network and I've not had a hiccup thus far. My closest charger was down last weekend (Pod Point rapid), but luckily enough the next closest is only a couple hundred meters further down the road (BP Pulse rapid). Sure, I have to have a half dozen apps on my phone in total, but thanks to your video I'm covered. I just wish Pod Point had a load more free 7KW near me...

[@russellgilchrist3951]

Nice rant, I don’t have an EV yet, so I have this to look forward too, as in 18months time when I get an EV the charging network will still(probably) still be the same 👍

[@alexdalgleish1061]

That's what we're all afraid of....

[@idparkinson]

I agree 100%. The networks are the biggest hurdle to EV ownership

[@christopherhamilton5557]

Great video! You make great points. In the US the EA chargers had a real history of not working (it has gotten better). And they charge a small fortune to use it.

[@FeatureRequest]

Tesla. They actually want to build an EV and built out their own charging network and it's so seamless to use. Plug and go. The map shows all ur Tesla superchargers and tells u all the info u need to know. The software updates often to make the user experience better. Tesla is the bar.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

And since they were around before CCS and the offer was on the table..... It's making other companies look rather silly now.

[@alexmclachlan3260]

Tesla have proved that it's possible to create a widespread reliable network of chargers. Whether it actually makes money is debatable, but it does sell cars.

[@FeatureRequest]

@@alexmclachlan3260 yea the point was never to be a cash cow but basically to at least break even and make the user experience great and easy.

[@tdrager]

Tesla has 99.9% availability in the USA. That's why we have two of them. They have no touch screens.

[@christhompson12345]

I work for a manufacturer of Power Equipment which distributes electricity to these very charge points... You'd be amazed at the number of projects we come across where someone has installed inadequate infrastructure behind the charge point itself which will ultimately lead to these problems. People without the right technical capability putting in the wrong MV/LV infrastructure feeding power to the chargers is one of the main issues.

[@1d2a3d4d5i6o]

Hi Steve I agree with what you say 'Grant Shapps is the Minister for Transport. I knew him as a student at Manchester Poly ..... Complete Chocolate Fireguard.' He is an idiot he even thinks that Smart motorways are safe. God help those EV owners that run out on one of these motorways.

[@Ivan.endicott]

If you use an Octopus Electric Juice card to pay for Ionity you get 5% discount on the per kWh not that this counts for alot but better in our pocket and more importantly no pre authorisation costs 👍

[@colinnich]

That will half cover then 10% they overcharge you for the power they think they deliver that the car doesn't receive.

[@carolines7834]

Thanks for this. Have a new EV and because of covid haven't yet made a long trip. Will try to plan plan Bs when I do. Although when I looked at the first leg of our usual route I was concerned that there didn't seem too many charging places on it.

[@kardy12]

I totally agree - in the three years we’ve had our EV, the charging network really hasn’t improved enough. Thankfully, our EV is a Tesla and the superchargers have never failed us - they’re simply brilliant. But other networks we have tried to use from time to time have failed us all too often. And until that is fixed, if you get an EV and plan on making long journeys regularly the supercharger network is invaluable.

[@jugsbbq2023]

Totally true I recently took first trip where I needed to charge I worked out my route, I subscribed to BP Pulse at a fairly new site on my route that had three rapid chargers, when I arrived all were out of action, useless luckily I had plan B and charged at local Lidl which worked lovely,I contacted BP and all they said was its working now so yes is an issue and need to plan ahead but don't let it put you off

[@DannyThompson54]

Hits nail on head. This issue plays into the negative press about EV ownership and use. There cannot be any other paradigm that is as bad as it is right now. Sure, in the early days everything was formative, early adopters were the only ones out there, and we're a pretty hardy lot, putting up with any old crap in the knowledge that it is early days. Yet here we are, 2021, lots of chargers being deployed, acquisitions of smaller firms by larger corporations who then literally wreck what they've just purchased. Customer Service non-existent, and open support hours beyond a joke! This poor corporate behaviour is going to rip the heart and soul out of people who want to get into EV and have the dreadful experiences. Reference networks who set the bar: InstaVolt, GridServe, Osprey, of course Tesla SuC Meh: Shell Recharge Total waste of time: Ecotricity, BP Pulse, Pod Point,

[@railwaymanjohn4721]

Totally agree with all you said.