EV CHARGER installation UK - can you connect to an existing CONSUMER UNIT?

[@efixx]

Installing and EV charger - WATCH THIS FIRST 👉kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZ_QiGmNbs9rZqs

[@JSunday45]

Hello eFIXX. I have a question unrelated to the video, but since I'm getting different answers everywhere I look I am kinda desperate and I know you guys will be able to answer it. Can tinned copper lugs be used with an aluminum cable?

[@peterryan7827]

Speaking as a non electrician, but as a retired plumber,I found this very interesting, from the point that We now know how it should be done, and it is a little more complicated to do than I thought, especially that surge control. thanks a lot for this one.

[@damianrobinson2524]

you were gonna try and knock one in yourself wernt ya hahaha

[@mikekirwin3720]

The tails inside the meter cupboard needed identifying, ie L or N or Brown or Blue, great video. Looking forward to more videos on this very hot topic.

[@niceguy235uk1]

Why do they?

[@JayLovesProgramming]

@@niceguy235uk1 why don't they?

[@englishbob5106]

🤔

[@AnotherLostBall]

Great video - it helped me to understand my experience. I recently purchased an EV and wanted a charging point fitted. I was amazed at the quotes I received (around £3k). I thought mine was a simple job - fairly new consumer unit and easy access from there to the charging point. However the electricians had explained the need for various improvements (including the benefits of installing a surge protection device). TBH I thought they were milking it - but I can now understand what they were saying based on your video. However it does highlight another barrier to the transition to electric cars. I doubt many people would guess that a “simple” installation of a charging point would be so expensive (ignoring all those who can’t park on their drive; who might want to charge 2 cars overnight; who have older fuse boxes; etc).

[@lesmoor001]

i feel humbled by his level of knowledge

[@efixx]

He's a clever bloke old Gaz. Joe

[@oliverduff681]

For those Hager boards - the MT-series MCBs (and the new ADA series compact RCBOs) will - per Hager's technical department - fit in the older plastic CUs as well as the newer Design 10 and Design 30 metal CUs.

[@rtelectrical9574]

Exactly

[@chrisoxley6631]

One may argue that this translates to a lot less hours, given it is extremely straight forward.

[@doctorelectric470]

good video lads, just shows there are lots to consider when fitting an EV charger

[@dvrn86]

Great video lads. Really helps with keeping the knowledge in the trade up to current standards 👌

[@cuebj]

Further to longer comment about difficulty in finding good electricians, I've found you can put 3 electricians in room and watch a pretty heated row involving 4 different ways of doing something, each swearing the regs say different things and slagging off each other's choice of fitting.

[@andywarrington4738]

thats because most new electricians are lost in too many technical bullshit items , rule of thumb , consult the regs and use some common bloody sense

[@markkennard861]

Way down here in NZ everything must be on RCDs.. apart from fixed appliances like oven and hot water. Average house will have at least 3x RCD. That cable clipped to the timber would not comply. Interesting to see how other countries do things..

[@Mark-ij2nh]

Regs are a big updated con sometimes they make you do an entire course for only a few pages added from the previous regs ie 18th from 17th. Also there are SO many Electricians who wire differently and its a headache as we all have different ways of wiring. Surge protection can be nonsense as alot of new devices have built in surge protection inside the circuits in new electric cars and electronic components in entertainment products. Also it depends how fast you want to charge your vehicle. I know someone who wanted 16mm cable to charge there car. Which can carry from 57 to 85 Amps. Even your shower doesn't need that.

[@community-first]

I'm a Yorkshire Electrician, God said I can't be wrong even when I'm wrong

[@deang5622]

@@andywarrington4738 It's because electricians are not trained well enough. Many really don't understand electricity, but because they are electricians and have had some limited amount of training, they think they know it all. Put those electricians in a room with qualified electrical engineers and they lose every time.

[@jwillisbarrie]

Thanks for adding captions for the Deaf. Makes your video much clearer and better to understand, gave video a like and subscribed.

[@efixx]

Thanks Jim 👍🏻

[@markpowell1456]

Could you please explain why the supply cable to the ev charger could be non RCD protected? You indicated that as it's clipped direct to the fabric, it's not a requirement? I was under the impression all domestic circuits now have to be 30ma protected?

[@efixx]

If the cable is surface clipped, visible and unlikely to be damaged then you don’t require an RCD.

[@RuchOporuElektryk]

@@efixx Guys, can we have a pointer to regs regarding this? It seems like a strange exception for a T+E cable loaded with 32A for hours and supplying "socket-outlet for current-using equipment for use outside" and protected only by a built-in RCD without any physical means of testing...

[@WhiskeyGulf71]

Seems like it would have been easier & cheaper to have upgraded the existing domestic consumer unit to the current standard that requires it to be housed in a metallic casing, that way the property’s up to current code, no issue with matching breakers & a nice simple installation with much safer RCBOs.

[@cglees]

Considerably more expensive though

[@G_Zero127]

Customer never wants to spend 💷💷

[@gap9992]

Very informative, thanks for posting. . Am I right in thinking that anyone could just take out a single screw on the connector in the meter cupboard and be exposed to the tails where they are joined?

[@efixx]

I guess so, much like a light switch or a socket, anyone can undo two screws and access live parts.

[@gap9992]

@@efixx yes, that's true but are people much better protected downstream of the Consumer Unit? I am just a curious layman but I was expecting something like Fort Knox around those connections lol

[@HereForTheMusic-h5o]

The issue here is someone is willingly opening that enclosure with a tool. If they aren't competent then they shouldn't be attempting to access that enclosure. They are making that decision...

[@acelectricalsecurity]

Yeah just like anyone can take a screw driver to any electrical accessory. Or put their finger inside the lamp holder on a pendant that has no lamp in and have access to live parts without the use of a tool.

[@gbelectricks]

Just to throw a potential spanner into the works!! Are the tails, both the new set and the old set, run through the wall cavity? And, if this is the case, do these tails require additional protection?

[@efixx]

I wouldn't say so, they're not buried in the wall feeding an accessory, they come through in a straight line and are clearly visible. You'd have to actively be trying to drill into them. 👍

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Isn't the main reason for using a seperate CU that the installer doesn't have to take responsibility for the condition of the existing CU? For a 32A chargepoint, wouldn't it be better to use a 40A breaker to avoid any nuisance trips - a 32A breaker at full load for hours on end doesn't seem like a great idea for long-term reliability.

[@BezosAutomaticEye]

Hello. The chaps didn't mention in the video what the Zappi max current draw was set at, it may be limited at the charge point to lower than 32. Also - wouldn't the overcurrent have to be between 3 - 5 times the MCB rating?

[@BezosAutomaticEye]

@@johnhoward2104 cheers I was getting mixed between the two. Back to 7671...

[@brad30]

Manufacturer instructions say B32 MCB for overload protection.

[@edc1569]

I believe J1772 calls for 30A max?

[@mickbitchum4664]

Totally agree. MCB's at full load for 10 hours or so is never a great idea. Myenergi do specify a 40A MCB in their instructions, there's a lot of sparks installing on a 32A though I've noticed.

[@effervescence5664]

Brilliant video as always though Hager, known for backwards compatibility of boards/devices possibly not the best choice for demonstration purposes.

[@efixx]

Spread the word on this - amazing how many folks ram any old breaker in.

[@effervescence5664]

@@efixx Seen that all too often with Wylex and other boards but not a usual thing with Hager down this way. Possibly people are just used to working on/with the brand more.

[@paulprescott7913]

@@efixx its a major problem isnt it. I did note that the existing hager board had a new style breaker in it.

[@rtelectrical9574]

The video shows a new Hager MCB type in the board already. 😂

[@intercity125]

No mention of the PME/TN-C-S issue with an EV charger, I take it the Zappi has built in PEN fault detection?

[@stuartandrews4344]

It has built-in PEN fault technology,so no earth rod needed

[@efixx]

It sure does, no earth rod required. 👍

[@mathman0101]

I believe it’s has applied for a patent and been tested in a university lab not sure it has gone through other standard testing labs. Looks interesting technology though no real technical information on how this PEN technology is constructed and operates. Not if it would work even more effectively if earth fault path impedance was further lowered by adding an earth rod even though it does not need it.

[@acelectricalsecurity]

Why is everyone obsessed with a pme supply and ev's, really it's the networks problem not the installer. Plus, ask yourself what is the chance of the network dropping the neutral when the car is on charge and someone touching the car, it's got to be near impossible. The networks should be worried not the installer or car owner.

[@westinthewest]

@@acelectricalsecurity The DNO absolves itself of responsibility by stating that PME earths can't be exported outside the equipotential zone. I've read recently that loss of neutral is quite common and is often caused by cable thieves.

[@jamiebourne8047]

Interesting, although the meter end looked ropey to me, straggly tails unsupported or colour identified ..

[@nickbuckle646]

I would have been inclined to use an adaptable box below original board and split the tails with line taps to feed other board and use a spd incorporated main switch in the meter box. Hager breakers do fit old consumer units so perhaps new board not required if SPD placed before original consumer unit.

[@efixx]

Always good to hear different engineering opinions. 👍

[@acelectricalsecurity]

Personally, if it were me, I would have used a spare way in the existing board, and if I had to install a SPD I would have used an in-line unit in its own enclosure, and not had any joints in the tails.

[@NickW1111]

On the subject of EV charger installation, I'd asked my DNO (Western Power) to check my service fuse rating as I'm looking at getting an EV. I've just come off the phone to the local office - they were very helpful and explained that the maximum they would fit is 80A. But, and as a policy that is only a couple of weeks old, if that is not adequate for an EV charger and the other house loads, they would upgrade the supply to 3 phase for free (3 X 80A). To say I was surprised is an understatement - I asked if this means they will dig up the road and was told yes. I said it sounds very German and she said that is what they are moving to, with a phase for the EV charger, a phase for the heat pump and one for the house. On new build they now provide a 3 phase incomer, blanking off 2 phases if only a single phase supply is required. Has anyone else heard this, or seen it in practice?

[@acelectricalsecurity]

That's a new one, but makes sense because of the obsession with the government's push for electric, which is not the silver bullet most think it is, but that's another issue. There was a time when suppliers wouldn't fit a 3 phase supply in a meter box, always had to go on an inside wall. Looks like they are going back to the old days, occasionally you come across 2 phases where one was used for heating.

[@stuartandrews4344]

Had cut out here replaced a few months ago, (Western Power) offered me the same upgrade the supply to 3 phase for free (3 X 80A) FOC.😲

[@acelectricalsecurity]

@Dark Dreamz it's supposed to be 400v now, but is still 415, that's between phases, you still have 230v phase to neutral.

[@NickW1111]

@@stuartandrews4344 Did you go for that, and if so, what have you installed as a consumer unit? The WPD document suggests 3 separate consumer units (or 2 of you only need 2 phases) and 3 phase DBs tend to be a bit big for domestic use.

[@stuartandrews4344]

@@NickW1111 Been very tempted, but I'm still mulling it over,as it would give me 80A for house, 80A for new workshop & 80A for EV charger,but COVID has delayed workshop build. Was it this WPD Document? www.westernpower.co.uk/downloads/3347

[@safeswitchelectricalltd9311]

Great video as always, quick question on the SPD. I appreciate that model is advertised as 'universal', but is that enough? Do you need to confirm with the CU manufacturer, in this case Crabtree, that they are happy for it to be installed in their board? So far I have not found a CU manufacturer who has written in their instruction that a universal SPD can be used. They all state that only their own can be used. I'd love to find one that allows this!

[@christastic100]

Something to note is some manufacturers now suggest a 40 amp MCB for surge device. Definitely would seal the meter cabinet holes , but it looks very neat . Can I ask if the RCD protection was built into the charger and last time I did an EV point it was made TT . As always a great useful vlog

[@efixx]

Inside the Zappi 2 smart electric vehicle EV charger which doesn't need an earth rod on TNCS systems kzbin.info/www/bejne/najQmnqca9l2nqc Great technology in the Zappi hence no earth rod required...

[@pythongrun]

Great video. Sadly cancelled my EV Charge Point install today after contractor tried to rip me off.

[@paulbb27]

Thanks for this video , very helpful 👍 I’m a qualified electrician did my exams back in 2000 /2002 but things have certainly changed since then!

[@efixx]

Thanks for watching and the kind words

[@paulbb27]

@@efixx reminds me of my apprenticeship days them Hager consumer units! Still got plenty of spare mcbs for them (with the black switches!) .

[@jimmorris5700]

Yep Paul they sure have , up 18 now more lolly for the examiners . Getting areal rip off for tradesmen , my son just done iphis 18 cert £650 ? I forget !

[@thinklist]

So glad you touched on Type Testing

[@Poorlybobsdad]

That’s a nice install but it seems a large extra cost for a new consumer unit and main fuse mods for the sake of tracking down the right Hager MCB on the existing none RCD side. Is that the only reason why you wouldn’t come off that spare way?

[@earlyyearslearningisfun]

Fantastic video Gaz and Joe 👍

[@paulmanning9540]

Get on E-bay for old breakers. There is usually some bright spark that saves them off old boards and sells them on.

[@digitaria]

Has the house got LED down lights? Those causes dc leakage issues too. I would always recommend a new consumer unit. Wouldn't a time delayed rcd solve the selectivity issue? Where are the Isolation switches at the meter? How much did the DNO charge to pull the fuse?

[@TheHawkeye001]

Re: Using the same type of breaker topic around 2:05 mark - when electricians install new CU's' is it standard practice to advise the customer to have some spare MCB's/RCBO's in case new circuits are added in future? As a homeowner I just assumed I could always get hold of a breaker from the same manufacturer and it would be backwards compatible

[@MarkBateman]

So can you explain why you cant just change out the AC RCD on the existing board for a Type A and then add a 40amp MCB for the EV circuit? Thanks

[@artisanelectrics]

Great video guys! 👍

[@efixx]

Thanks Jordan. 😊

[@harrycollins4347]

I see a Zappi, is that an Artisan special!!!

[@paulprescott7913]

Thanks to Jordan and his vids, if im asked for a car charger now. I recommend the Zappi and its features. And significantly better delivery than another brand. Hasten to say that im not brown nosing Jordan, its just a better unit and thats clear to see.

[@artisanelectrics]

@@paulprescott7913 Thanks Paul!

[@artisanelectrics]

@@harrycollins4347 I didn't install this one but its a lovely looking install!

[@jasonnonumber]

I see that the service head is on a looped supply, does this mean the supply should be unlooped by the DNO before the EV point can be comissioned?

[@markbradley5746]

I clocked that as well... no mention of it in the vid was there 🤔

[@saulbelford7618]

could you have fitted the Henley blocks next to db so you dont have to run the new db tails all the way back to the meter cupboard??? Perhaps fitting them in enclosure if required. thanks

[@SurreyAlan]

Really interesting, from the horror photos my electrician shows me I suspect in most properties a rewire would be needed before even thinking about installing a charging point.

[@TheEulerID]

One good reason to use an external CU is that the electrician installing the charging point doesn't have to poke too much into your domestic wiring, although I suppose if the DNO fuse is to be upgraded, then they might have to look at tails and bonding and once that starts, then heaven knows what they might find.

[@chriswaites1222]

Nonsense. We're lucky in the UK to have 230V AC with (mostly) a 100A main fuse to every home. This means almost every home will both have wiring capable of carrying 100A to the CU and an EV charging at 7kW to take only 1/3 of that power. Installing an extra CU is only recognising that whoever installed the home never envisaged ever needing all of that 100A, not that it's problematic to need it.

[@alanmarriott9216]

What happened to isolator in meter/cutout cupboard?

[@jamesmckelvie]

Can pull main fuse.

[@MS-Patriot2]

He stated a main switch was installed in the meter cupboard, just didn’t show the paddle.

[@NickW1111]

Does the earth Henley block become a main earth terminal and so need a Safety Electrical Earth label by it?

[@gino2465]

Hi guys another great video, may I ask what was the distance from the cut out to the new cu installed.

[@efixx]

It consumer unit is almost directly behind the meter box -.so 1.5m tails.

[@aaman9108]

Amazing video, extremely helpful. Thank you.

[@holmesjunction]

6:07 The service head is mounted on a 'scrap' of chipboard screwed/wedged at an angle against the main mounting board (don't know when this was done). Should this have ever passed inspection?

[@BezosAutomaticEye]

I've seen alot that are like this. Is it to avoid two sharp bends in the main incomer if the cutout were mounted on the back board? don't know. Any DNOs on?

[@NickW1111]

I’ve that setup at home - the chipboard wedge is pretty solid and with the incomes being surface mounted and so coming in close to the front of the meter box, it makes for an easy path to the cut-out.

[@efixx]

What issue could it cause?

[@Daniells1982]

Quite common on new builds to see this. I assume it's the DNO that fit them as they fit the service head.

[@holmesjunction]

​@@efixx - It brings the service head closer to the front, increasing potential of accidental damage or ingress of water (especially if door open or damaged). Is it an approved adaption to the fixing of items within a cabinet under BS7671 Certification (especially if it’s from new)?

[@jonathanbuzzard1376]

How does the surge protector work then? It's not a Crabtree device so it is surely not appropriate to fit in a Crabtree consumer unit? I would also be a bit disappointed if the EV charger didn't have surge protection built in.

[@terencewright2223]

Excellent video, thank you. Keep up the good work. Do you have any videos on solar panels and storage power units?

[@efixx]

thanks 🙏 We have this one on inverters, which links to one on battery storage - kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJLMo31omMhsrKs

[@grahamturner6119]

Ýea but you said nothing. More In meter box but what about e 3 connector blocks you have contradicted your selves

[@katar0t0]

Have to say I've laughed when you said installer couldn't be bothered with finding same RCB for the existing CU, of course they installed an extra CU :)

[@smiffysmiffy123]

No isolation switch, how was the system made safe for the Addition of new consumer unit?

[@EDU4519Computing1]

I was amazed with the 25mm2 tails and the 100A main fuse! Here in Malta we basically use the UK system with some modifications (I had done a course for a Licence A Electrician and we referred to the IEE book quite a lot). The power company here gives consumers a 40A main fuse and if your load blows that, you are sort of forced to apply for a 3-phase home installation. I am considering an EV and this video opened my views quite a lot. Tails from our electricity meters are 6mm and we usually run a 4mm for the cooker outlet while the remaining power would be on 2.5mm, usually divided to separate 32A MCBs. Lighting is usually installed on 16A MCBs although with more modern lighting units such as LEDs etc, 6A MCBs ae becoming the norm.

[@efixx]

Interesting system you use in Malta. For EV you will probably need some sort of load shedding / sharing - a few of the new EV chargers support this so you don’t blow the incoming supply fuse.

[@markrainford1219]

So your power to sockets on a 32A breaker I take it are ring circuits?

[@Davidhjrick]

I have an external 3pin socket at the front of my house. Can I leave the cable to my fuse box in place and just swap the external socket box with a 7KW EV charger box? 🤞🏻

[@MS-Patriot2]

Er… only if you want your house to catch fire.

[@CepheiVV]

Did I get it wrong or there is no RCD protection all the way down from the mains panel to the charger unit? What does protect against residual current throughout all that length?

[@petertallowin6406]

Another top notch video guys. I do love a Starbreaker board.....

[@TheEulerID]

Personally, I prefer the idea of an external CU, and definitely where you have an external meter cupboard unless there are some very specific circumstance. It means that the household and EV side of things can be kept almost wholly separate. It also minimises power loss in the cabling, avoids disturbing existing decoration and so on. In my case, it's definitely the route I would take as the back of my detached garage faces the house wall with the meter cupboard. Also, I can use it to rectify something I hate, which is that the existing SWA that feeds the garage is connected into the back of the ground floor ring circuit. It's 4mm, so at a stretch if might be enough for an EV charger with some sort of load control, but I think I will go for 5 way 6mm SWA which would allow for any future three-phase upgrade (and, in principle, when wired for single phase the two wires could be paralleled for each of the line and neutrals which I estimate would save around 60 watts on a 7.2 kW load). I just forsee me doing a lot of digging...

[@gregpidgeon2822]

nice to see the circuits labelled in that new board...

[@paullyons4624]

Watch and LISTEN 👍🏻

[@marklola12]

This is all well and good on a house that is not overly old but what about a house that was built in 1979 lol apparently we need to have a new fuse or something since ours can not handle EV charging and its the original electrics, outside we do have a newer electric meter and gas meter installed but inside we have the original metal wall plate that has a row of black switches on to turn parts of the houses electric off. when i see videos about EV installations its always newer houses with the type of wall boxes shown at 0:43

[@AlanJan_UK_49]

The tails going from my meter to the consumer unit are not 25mm but 16mm. I remember the meter installing telling me that. Does that mean I'd have to replace the 16mm if I wanted to one day get an EV charger installed ?

[@efixx]

Yes unless the demand from the rest of your house is very low and /or the service fuse is just 60Amps and you fit a charger which measures the power use at the supply intake - e.g the Zappi by Myenergi

[@AlanJan_UK_49]

@@efixx Thanks.

[@ianmoss20102010]

should they have used a Crabtree surge protection as it would have been tested to work with the consumer unit?

[@Daniells1982]

The SPD doesn't look like a Crabtree SPD. I've queried this with Wylex where I've found other sparks using non Wylex SPDs in their consumer units. Their response was...'if the product installed within the consumer unit is a non Wylex product then the installer becomes the guarantor of the whole assembly'. Since Crabtree are part of the Electrium Group I'd expect their response to be the same. Like the MCB example u used in the video, the same applies to SPDs as it comes down to type testing.

[@Daniells1982]

You really want to hear it from the consumer unit manufacturer though? In my experience they want nothing to do with other manufacturer's gear. Don't shoot the messenger mate, just saying what Wylex technical said when I queried it.

[@Daniells1982]

Yeah I agree mate. It's a tricky one. I'd always just go with the CU manufacturer's SPD for my own peace of mind (knowing product testing should have been completed as an assembly) and if the worst were to happen, to avoid any finger pointing between installer and manufacturer(s). Cost will likely come into it but it is what it is I suppose.

[@efixx]

Interesting point for discussion. Thanks for bringing it up. 👍

[@markholmes4143]

Quite agree with your comment @Daniells1982 What code would you give for the mixing of manufacturer on the next EICR. If it was a MCB with no signs of damage guidance suggests code 3, would it be the same for the SPD. The CPS scheme's should really be sorting this out to give guidance before thousands are installed, maybe efixx could grasp the batton.

[@Daniells1982]

@@markholmes4143 I'd probably say that's a fair assessment mate. Mixing manufacturers just isn't worth the hassle in my opinion. U may end up paying more but if you stick with one manufacturer you can't go far wrong and at least if there was an issue down the line that's no fault of the installer I'd hope there is some support from the manufacturer if you've used their 'system'. I think guys just need to be aware that mixing manufacturers gear in a CU, including in line meters, bell transformers etc you're taking some responsibility away from the manufacturer and taking it on as the installer, becoming the 'guarantor ' was the term they used.

[@misstakenot9582]

A pity they didn't put an isolator in the meter cabinet while they were in there. Yes, there's a switch on the meter- but only until the supply company replaces the seal.

[@loosecannon5813]

That RCD with the sine wave indicates a type AC ,however Hager RCDs have a 'shark fin' next to that indicating it's a type A RCD .

[@efixx]

Google the part number

[@RustyRecovery]

Good video. If the current consumer unit was new and the correct mcb could be sourced and inserted into a non rcd protected spare way, could that consumer unit be used instead of installing an additional one ?

[@efixx]

Yes that is one option - but a struggle if you want to add surge protection.

[@cuebj]

So how do you find a really good sparky who thinks, diagnoses, and communicates clearly with me with my 'A' level physics and, before regs changed, did a fair amount of household wiring following the books to the letter? I haven't found one who takes any time, cleans drill dust out of the back boxes, or listens to what I say. Contrast the excellent plasterers, plumbers, general builders I've used in south east London. With side, loft, and tear extensions, we have lots of lighting, power, shower, cooker circuits and want to plan for EV.

[@efixx]

See if they are on Instagram and see the quality of work that they post. We follow some inspirational electricians.

[@supersparks9466]

Well you havnt used me Steven, but I don’t work in east London so your search continues

[@acelectricalsecurity]

With the RCD being built-in to the charger, how does the owner do a test on it, that is operate a manual test button, and do you carry out an RCD test as you would a regular stand alone RCD.

[@JimWhitaker]

Good question. Taking the front off that charger every three months would be a pain. ;-) Or does this just illustrate that three-monthly testing of RCD's is not really required?

[@lucypalmer]

Hi there! Is it possible I might need a new commercial unit installed before an EV home charge point installation could be carried out? Thank you!

[@efixx]

New series looking at commercial / workplace charging coming soon.

[@emmetg888]

Having two 100amp main mcbs on separate boards in the property allows a potentially combined flow of 200amps from one mains incoming 100amp supply can lead to overloading on the mains hrc no??

[@ricocasilli3307]

no

[@ballamoto]

Just watched your other video about looped systems. You mentioned that 2 cables coming in means a looped system, and that's trouble for EV chargers. Is this not a looped system then? As it has 2 cables coming into the property.

[@deanread1338]

Where is the main switch to isolate the complete installation ? or do you have to go to each DB in the event of a fire

[@tonycamplin8607]

However much did all that work cost? It seems that it's very expensive to fit a AV outside charging point, something that nobody ever mentions.

[@Marco-mg9tv]

The tails for the addition “EV” board appear to be routed through the cavity, as do the main DB tails - arguably poor workmanship/against building regs bridging the cavity ?

[@efixx]

It's a double skin wall but there's no cavity as it's a garage wall. 👍

[@paulbadcock8237]

Excellent - very clear explanation

[@brendanpells912]

How about fitting a kWh meter in the CU for the charge point, so the consumer can split out how much energy they're using for the EV? I visited an egg production unit years ago with inverter drives for the ventilation fans, the standard Hager RCD would trip out when you tried to run more than one fan. I suggested they fit an RCD designed to operate with Inverters, at the type it was a Schneider Si type.

[@Gal1690]

The smart chargers already tell you what energy is being produced. Zappi monitors the EV, house, solar and back up batteries and can divert the green energy directly to the car. Really good set up 😎

[@JC097]

What if that was a TT system, then there would be no rcd protection on the main tails supplying the new consumer board and the the tails and it could be an excessive length from the mains head.

[@Tensquaremetreworkshop]

It seems common to fit a new consumer unit- and, of course, it has nothing to do with the little discussed plans to make both vehicle charging and heat pumps liable to load shedding. Lot easier to wire that up when there is a separate consumer unit.

[@JimRuggEV]

Very informative video as always Gaz and Joe!

[@russthebiker]

Why no sealing wires on the Henley blocks ? nice and tidy way of supplying the Charger through a new CU, I have seen a few nasty ones over the last year or so

[@Maddogonguitar]

..does the RCD being in the Charge point protect from PEN fault ?.. wouldnt usualy export the pme to external supplies

[@djsmitch]

Hi is that on a looped supply? I see there’s two cables going into the main fuse

[@efixx]

No it's a single cable, it splits into line and combined neutral and earth at the bottom of the enclosure there.

[@12alocin]

For years, a 7.2 kw shower came straight off the house consumer unit with a simple isolation switch, so exactly why are these changes been invented?

[@jonathangurney8628]

Guess the charger is running for much longer than a shower...

[@RichardSmith-xd2ck]

On BBC one of your other videos you show how to determine a looped supply with the two cables entering the service head. This installation has two cables entering the same way so why is this not a looped supply. My property has two cables as seen on this video how do I determine if supply is looped or had the neutral earth combined as you described of this installation

[@efixx]

It’s the cable at the bottom of the cutout which is the incoming supply - only one of them coming out of the ground - so it’s not a looped supply.

[@RichardSmith-xd2ck]

@@efixx the cable at the bottom as you say is not clear on the video. How can I tell if my supply is the same the incoming cable / cables come in through the cavity and I m unable to see if this is actually one cable that splits

[@OldLordSpeedy]

@@RichardSmith-xd2ck As normal customer do you not check that. It is the electrician or your power company how do that. It is truly not your job. Specially UK electrician are hate customer DIY work. They think someone steal there the job.

[@grumblewoof4721]

I wonder about the suitability of the mains supply to a house and what load it can take. The cables that come down the street where I live are three phase with each phase going to a different set of houses (normal I think). Within a phase I could imagine houses all having a fast charging point for their EV, electric heating inside the house, electric hobs and cookers, washing machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers, toasters, kettles, fridges and TV's in multiple rooms ... and lights. What would happen if every household turned everything on at once and were fast charging their EV ? Could the mains supplies to the street handle that ? I ask because I have had several incidents in my street where the under ground wiring has failed and we have had outages while they repair it (digging holes). One incident caused a huge surge that overloaded my neighbours TV (on standby) and it caught fire in the early hours of the morning. Her and her family were nearly killed and my adjacent house, that is part of the terrace, suffered smoke damage. A number of residents had appliance damage as well, presumably on the phase that was effected. Given the larger number of EV's and charging points being fitted, is this a scenario we will see more of, particularly in older neighborhoods with doggy underground wiring ?

[@andywarrington4738]

all these electric vehicle points wont be possible yet due to supply constraints , it all looks good in a computer but the reality is far different

[@johnlatchford9425]

I heard an estimate that 30,000 Km of old underground wiring in residential streets will need replacing to allow EV charging.

[@grumblewoof4721]

@@johnlatchford9425 that sounds probanly an underestimate but on top of that wexwould likely need many more substations and a smart grid.

[@AndrewSmith-wh3lo]

Hi chaps. Love your videos. I am doing the ev charging course next month and was wondering what you think of this option. I would like to install a hi-integrity split load board (eg Hager VML914CUSPD) with type A RCDs and a 40A MCB in one of the non-RCD protected module. I then plan to run a 10mm SWA glanded into the metal CU. I understand I will then need to add a length of suitably sized CPC from the gland on the EV charging point (which is made of plastic) to the earth terminal in the EV charging point. Am I right in thinking that I will not need to add a length of CPC to the gland on the metal consumer unit, as there is a very good fault path through the SWA armourings, through the body of the metal CU and onto the MET built into the CU? It seems to me that doing so would be unnecessary and would add a parallel CPC path of approx 30mm. Thanks and regards. Andrew

[@AndrewSmith-wh3lo]

I forgot to add, the 10mm SWA I plan to install is 2 core. Thanks again. Andrew

[@TwoEsk8Riders]

Have you used a 2.5 out of the 32a MCB feeding the surge protection ? Is that too small ?

[@Mark-ij2nh]

I would stick a nice 10mm T/E or even 16mm on either a 50A or 63A....future proof for higher KW EV

[@joecoco88]

Can’t put a 10mm on a 50a

[@Gez492]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but can you confirm why this isn't a looped supply please, it looks like it from the two cables going into the service head.

[@JamesJames-um5xq]

Hope someone can answer this. In the video the supply out to the charger is in T&E and clipped direct so no additional RCD protection required. This T&E however must pass through the wall to the charger, I thought if T&E is buried within a wall at less than 50mm then additional RCD is required ?? Is the T&E enclosed in metal conduit where it passes through the wall and if so does the conduit need to be earthed (I think maybe not as T&E is insulated & sheathed) ! Am i missing something ?? Great vid btw

[@efixx]

Think about this logically - the RCD rule for buried cables is to protect people from accidentally damaging cable. In this case you can see the cable on the surface vanish in to a hole which is directly behind the charger. The chances of accidentally damaging the cable are minimal.

[@JamesJames-um5xq]

@@efixx Thanks for reply that puts my mind to rest. Its just the regs say some concealed cables in certain instances should be RCD protected; I guess the definition of "concealed" is what threw me !

[@jhangirhussain]

The DC RCD in the evse will prevent blinding on upstream RCD so that shouldn't be a concern when deciding which side of consumer unit to use. Although it is still a good idea not to touch existing wiring if you can help it.

[@cliveross1800]

You cant fit A type RCD down stream of an AC RCD, thats what we have been advised

[@Mark-ij2nh]

Have to be careful if a surge protective device is attached to ring mains or radials that have new electronic devices as they have their own protective device built into the power units and can actually cause an issue

[@Tom-Lahaye]

When the EV charging station has its own RCD built in, is it connected to the main earth rail in your consumer box, or does it need another means to connect to earth (eg a separate earth pin)? Solar power systems can feed DC in your system as well, does the inverter have its own RCD protection like the charging station?

[@efixx]

It depends on how the manufacturer makes the charger. The Zappi 2 can be connected to the earth bar but others require an earth rod.

[@crismacpherson1549]

Should there not be a main switch to isolate both Consumer units?

[@efixx]

There's a switch incorporated into the meter. 👍

[@MrLeecavturbo]

Good video , it didn’t touch on the subject of rcd for tails.

[@jonny5514]

So how to you go on when you don’t have an old style stopcock with visible bonding ? , I have a surestop switch under the sink in the Cuboard with no visible bonding as the pipes run behind the built in cuboard , council told me the old stopcock would have been cut out when the surestop switch was put in .

[@merlin5476]

That hagar csu , if I'm not mistaken is a type A not an AC ? It has 2 symbols on it ?

[@efixx]

It’s a type AC - Google the part number shown on the RCD.

[@merlin5476]

@@efixx ok thanks. Looking at the one i just installed, it has the sine wave symbol ( in the square box) & also a half wave sine next to it like the one you showed so assumed it was a type A. My installation tested all perfectly weĺl but the customers current split board will not trip the rcd upon testing, i was wondering if my seperate csu i installed for the EV ( like the 1 in your video) would effect it ? They are only joined by a mains 100A block ( like your vid)

[@LeifNelandDk]

Is that only one phase? Our houses in Denmark all have 3 phases.

[@efixx]

You are lucky - it’s mainly single phase in the UK 🇬🇧- so 7kW maximum charge rate

[@LeifNelandDk]

@@efixx Because this used to be a farm, I believe I have 3*63A ;-)

[@jonathanbuzzard1376]

@@efixx Er, how come I have a 9.5kW shower then? The 7kW is the limit of the plug/socket being 32A rated and the AC charger in most EV's being only rated for 7kW. I doubt anyone is going to the expense of installing a DC fast charger at home. Let's face it a 7kW charger will get you at least ~60kWh of charging in 8.5 hours (aka overnight) which will get you at around 250 miles of range. I would note that 63A single phase plug/socket combinations are available too.

[@efixx]

Charger limits and standards are set by the automotive industry.

[@jonathanbuzzard1376]

@@efixxExactly which is why a comment that we are limited to a 7kW charge rate in the UK due to a single-phase supply is just nonsense. Above 7kW you need a DC charger and nobody is fitting those at home regardless of whether they have a single or three-phase power supply as they are too expensive and you don't need fast charging at home.

[@leevfx]

This may be a daft question, but do you need to have it wired through your consumer board? I live in flats and it wouldn't be possible to wire it all up. We do however have our meter near where the EV charger would be installed. Why can't we just have a switch in the cabinet and not have it run into our flat?

[@SCOPE_ON_THE_WING]

I love gary. What a man!!!

[@j.p289]

Another fantastic video!

[@efixx]

Thanks

[@YoussefYoussef-tw7qq]

High quality information rcda circuit breaker is the test for rcda circuit breaker every 6 months u can make a test ???

[@efixx]

18th Edition recommends a minimum of every six months. 👍

[@YoussefYoussef-tw7qq]

@@efixx thanx a lot to advices me keep going

[@1965GJS13]

How would you handle adding an EV charger to a house where the consumer-unit is NOT in somewhere handy like a garage, but is in a wall-cabinet in a room in the house, so that *ANY* cabling or extra boxes etc *canNOT* be anywhere *outside* that cabinet for aesthetic reasons (ask the wife!). The consumer-unit cabinet is only a little-bigger than the consumer-unit itself. Could the new separate consumer-unit just for the EV charger be placed *OUTSIDE* the house near the EV charger for example? Possibly in the outside meter-cupboard, or in a new wall-cabinet of some sort on the *outside* of the house?

[@efixx]

Yes you can but the small consumer unit would have to be located within 3 meters of the electricity meter. Some installers will place them in the meter box, however this is frowned upon by the DNO and energy suppliers. You can locate a small waterproof consumer unit close to the meter box. - hope this helps

[@1965GJS13]

@@efixx Thank you. That's perfect, and would work fine. In my case, the original consumer unit, the meter cupboard, and the likely position for the EV charger would all be on either side of the same common wall within maybe a metre of each other.

[@anthonydyer3939]

Several questions emerge on the theme of surge protection. 1. Does the zappi have built in surge protection? 2. Do car insurance companies cover damage to EVs caused by damaging transient voltages transmitted via the charging point? 3. Is it likely that car insurance companies could stipulate requirements over and above the wiring regs in relation to the need to have surge protection for charging points in future? I think weighing up question three is going to be the question of how often do damaging surges occur on the local DNO grid. I’m guessing it’s nearly as often as there are electrical storms.

[@paulgerrard2529]

Is there a requirement for the main tails to be identified by blue/brown ?

[@veronicathecow]

Excellent video, thank you.

[@stevecroot1470]

Why not just replace the old DB with a new one? Faffing around adding Henley blocks and extra tails + a second board seems over-kill.

[@efixx]

Most EV installers are fitting a small consumer unit to avoid taking responsibility for the existing installation.

[@alphatucana]

Interesting; took me a while to figure out what 'EV' means ('Electric Vehicle,' I suppose), and I still don't know 'RCD' or 'PME'. 'AC' and 'DC' were OK though.

[@efixx]

RCD is Residual Current Device. PME Protective Multiple Earthing.

[@jimbo2629]

All abbreviations should be explained at the start of any dissertation or the first use, even when the audience is expected to be knowledgeable.

[@roberttaylor3652]

I am a qualified electrician who at my works has followed the EV charging point manufacturers advice and fitted DP RCBO's to supply the charging point Just wondering why a domestic situation would be different as I plan to buy EV car in the future !

[@efixx]

good question - we will i vestigate further

[@neil03051957]

Should be a DP RCBO

[@roberttaylor3652]

@@neil03051957 Thank you Just wanted to make sure !

[@Mark-ij2nh]

DP to disconnect both live and neutral especially with higher currents.