Are $1700 carbon MTB wheels really worth it? High Low Ep 6

Are carbon wheels really that much better?
Head to squarespace.co... to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code EVANSMTBSAGA
Credit to Donut Media & Pinkbike for the inspiration behind this mega series.
Links to the parts seen in this video (affiliate links):
Polygon Siskiu D5 (red one) - bikesonline-us...
Polygon Siskiu D7 (yellow bike, my main) - bikesonline-us...
DT Swiss Competition Spokes - amzn.to/3EyvENW
DT Swiss Black Nipples - amzn.to/3MlKM3Q
Park Tool Nipple Driver - amzn.to/3xFPJR9
Nipple Holding Box with Driver - amzn.to/3vAPN1M
Stan's Rim Tape - amzn.to/3jWCMuf
Stan's Sealant - amzn.to/3rFFlFk
Tools:Park Tool Truing Stand - amzn.to/3CXI5lG
Park Tool Spoke Wrenches - amzn.to/3vBpLvt
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For business inquiries: [e-mail]
If you'd like to send me something for a future video idea:
Evan's MTB Saga PO Box 6498 Goodyear, AZ 85338

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Head to squarespace.com/EvansMTBSaga to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code EVANSMTBSAGA

[@andrewlevine3364]

Hi Evan I was work at a bike shop I’d recommend you get a new helmet. Because helmets expires after 3 to 5 years it it looks old. Otherwise great series

[@EvansMTBSaga]

@@andrewlevine3364 Thanks Andrew. I got it the start of 2021, still works great! I'm holding out for a gear sponsor tbh

[@andrewlevine3364]

@@EvansMTBSaga That’s a good idea

[@BCpov]

Not only do the carbon wheels have the lifetime warranty, they'll actually stay straight, unlike the alluminium wheels... 😬

[@Locks9907]

With how much experience he has with wheel building at this point, he would be able easily true his wheels up. Especially since his trails don't really have that many obstacles that would dent his hoops.

[@jeremywatts2768]

Does the lifetime warranty cover a foreign object poking a hole or chipping/cracking the carbon? I've seen stories where a frame got perforated by a rock and Santa Cruz wouldn't cover it. Is that story bogus? How do the hoops differ from how frames are made with the layers, etc?

[@EvansMTBSaga]

I can't wait to use them long term! And I'm glad you came across my videos. Your storytelling is a huge inspiration for me. Thanks Eric!

[@HarryL2020]

My FR2020s have never needed adjusting from factory, 3 years old now 😁 (they're alloy)

[@GokkunGuru]

@@jeremywatts2768 the warranty will cover any damage caused while riding no questions asked. That’s the NOBL guarantee!

[@kennykendall5709]

Loving the content! Though I think channel should really be called “Evan’s wheel spoking saga.”

[@thegrommechanic6265]

Totally agreed! That job is annoying, I might ask him to lace some

[@ryanmichels2981]

Lol. If he didn’t lace up a wheel during a vid at this point I’d be disappointed.

[@m.m_cutzz]

I wish he trued my wheels but to late now that I bent my wheel trying to true it🥲

[@kennykendall5709]

@@m.m_cutzz oh no!

[@larryisaak6431]

This is a low/high bike done right really been enjoying the series.

[@RandomDudeOnYoutube]

The Problem is, pinkbike Just picked the Most expensive and cheapest parts they could find. Not upgrades, heck, they downgraded the low bike sooo much

[@RandomDudeOnYoutube]

Evan is doing exactly what they should've done. Upgrades. Not Just change parts for the cheapest available stuff that is nowhere near an upgrade

[@larryisaak6431]

@@RandomDudeOnKZbin I agree there series was fun but not helpful for beginners in the slightest

[@whatshubdoc4793]

On the contrary, this comparison doesn't actually make sense. I just picked this video up and have not watched the prior ones so comments below apply to this one specifically. What's happening is that the "HIGH" bike is getting upgraded exponentially, while the "LOW" bike is getting upgraded incrementally. So in this case, you have carbon wheels + Fox Fork + whatever else has been done to it (I see a coil shock in one of the frames), which is going to hands-down outperform the Marz + alloy wheelset in terms of something like "precision" and "lateral rigidity". If you want a fair test, both bikes need to be outfitted with the same things, and only the wheels as the variable. It's like dumping $10 each week into one savings account, and then $3 each week in another, then saying "oh yea the one getting $10 each week has a higher balance!"

[@RandomDudeOnYoutube]

@@whatshubdoc4793 i know what you mean, but this isnt about testing which parts make the Biggest difference

[@JS-up8ff]

The high bike is 5% faster but costs nearly 373% more. Good value!

[@kevinhodgins9071]

Congrats on 30k Evan! This series has exploded your channel! 👍🏼 Well done. How long does it take you to spoke wheels now?

[@EvansMTBSaga]

About an hour per wheel, I still make mistakes haha

[@6president]

Ai

[@inraviratious6418]

Holy crap Evan. You've gained 10k subs since I started watching you, about a month and a half ago. Props to you, your series is definitely the obvious choice for quality and entertainment.

[@Godofwar1100]

This is what pink bike should have done! You have done a great job!

[@nasonguy]

For real, pinkbike is going for the clickbait with the garbage ebay stuff. This guy is actually doing some research and buying decent lower priced components from name brands. Low cost builds are totally possible if you don't just buy the cheapest knockoff thing on Amazon and actually look for quality low cost components.

[@singletona082]

Nice way of explaining that the expensive boost hubs can be converted with only a little headache. Even your 'cheap' option is out of my price range but I love what you do man. Keep it up.

[@chairmanmeow8388]

You can just get a pin thing that goes through the 148x12mm bore. You don't need new end caps. Far cheaper option. You just need that and a quick release skewer long enough to go through which you should already have off the old wheel.

[@singletona082]

@@chairmanmeow8388 Excellant point, but it is good to show the manufacturer already thought of the problem ahead of time.

[@chairmanmeow8388]

@@singletona082 I agree. I've bought a few sets of fulcrum wheels. They come with caps and plugs so you can run them on either. I only know about the pin because I bought one before I found out I didn't need to because of supplied plug things.

[@ameraldas3641]

honestly the best option is just to get a frame that accepts boost 148x12 in the first place.

[@andrewince8824]

Hope Hubs, my friend. You can get a Hope in almost any configuration you need and you can get adapters for nearly anything. Their rims are excellent too. All made in Yorkshire so you know the quality is second to only the Germans.

[@coalaturkey9210]

This is the best mtb series rn on youtube

[@honzadivis6983]

Yes it is

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Thanks guys!

[@dimitargeorgiev1293]

You really helped me for my journey from a newbie to experienced. Thank you

[@EvansMTBSaga]

I love to hear that!

[@pinkshinyalan]

I really appreciate your commitment to staying under budget on the low bike. 👍

[@user-ym6tg1ve7g]

congrats 30k subs 🤯✨🥳. this channel is growing so fast

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Thanks man! You're an OG

[@nofacemtb9481]

I wouldn't necessarily say that the low bike has "cheap" components. To me, cheap has a connotation of garbage/low quality. The products that you put on the low bike are quality products. I would say that the low bike has "less expensive" components. Keep up the good work!!!!

[@RandomDudeOnYoutube]

Well, thats the point. Thing is, its about upgrades, and not about cheap or expensive parts

[@dtolios]

Cool vid. I think the Tires should be "controlled" - i.e. the same - and not change because now you have two variables adding up. It would be more interesting if you were to "redo" the loops, this time with the DC tires on the Nobls and the 3C tires one the "DIY" Spanks, to see what % of that initial run difference was - perhaps - because of the tires. The $ difference between DC/3C is perhaps the smallest in this test so far, and most likely even "low-end" spenders that can justify $70 for DC tires , most likely can do $85 for 3C tires.

[@frankthetankricard]

Hey, you mentioned that double butted spokes are thinner in the middle to save weight. This is true to some extent but the weight savings are miniscule and only part of the reason to use these spokes. The most important difference is in their compliance. A wheel with double butted spokes has slightly more give on hard hits so it retains tension better. That being said straight gauge 2mm spokes are perfectly good for any application if you don't want to spend too much. And standard stainless is about a third of the price of colored spokes.

[@herveturcotte4595]

Great video and series! Informative, entertaining and well done. I upgraded my bike with a set of NOBL wheels with ONYX vesper hubs last year and I love them. If you can afford it, I highly recommend.

[@jambi49]

Great job man, keep up the good work :)

[@Jacob99174]

Freakin awesome content, Evan! When this one ends, do another one!!

[@EvansMTBSaga]

I plan on doing one and posting all videos in December

[@basvanleeuwen4502]

These vids are really well made, even without considering you do everything yourself.

[@gavingates8336]

Evan your videos never disappoint they make me want to keep watching and I think I've watched a couple of them like ten times. Keep up the great work.

[@citer5574]

Just not nice that some of his older videos are comment botted to get more views

[@BH-cy9tb]

No. I had a set of wheels built for my trek rail ebike. Spank 359 vibrocore rims and industry 9 hydra hubs. I could of done carbon but I’m very happy with the spank. I did have carbon wheelset on my old ebike but the spank just so much more comfortable to ride. Really liking this series. Good work.👍

[@marcandrecoutu4798]

Kudos for giving props to Doughnut that creates the Hi Lo concept

[@mihaigogu6970]

loving the inspiration from donut media with high low,ive really been thinking about this ideea

[@sumsaudi]

OMG YESSSS, Killing it once again, i swear i was obsessing abou the Nobl TR32s. this is legit the only video on youtube reviewing them properly. ABSOLUTE FIRE AS USUAL!!

[@GokkunGuru]

Love the “I feel like Jeff Kendall Weed” at the top of the climb.

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Haha I know right 😂

[@GokkunGuru]

How fitting, I ordered a set of NOBL TR32 sine curve carbon rims on Industry 9 Hydra's early this month. They're getting built soon so I look forward to this upgrade. Your review made the purchase even more reassuring. High bike wins again!

[@anthonyscuderi9931]

Just keeps gettin better Evan! Thanks for keeping us entertained. As an AZ rider I laughed about the berms or lack there of lol!

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Yeah I think berms get built and just decay with the sun!

[@mynock250]

As primarily road cyclist with a 15k carbon everything sWorks, I chuckle whenever I see anything carbon on a trail mtb.

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Haha why is that!! I'm curious to hear your perspective

[@clarkpark]

Just what the bike community content we need. Been living these vids Cheers

[@hardmtnbiker]

I have both carbon and aluminum rim wheels. I agree carbon is lighter and aluminum is more shock absorbency. In either application I would not ever have mountain bike rims so narrow. Minimum is i30mm internal width. This alone and especially when paired with good tires an tire inserts. I especially like how much better my gravel bike feels with i27mm rims. Being full rigid makes you notice the ride qualifies imprisonments and subtle deferences between carbon and aluminum and the different tires.

[@rubbersidedown5620]

Yeah I've only ridden carbon rims once and it was on a Santa Cruz V10 at Whistler Bike Park and they felt like garbage because they were so stiff that the bike felt skittish and definitely transmitted more of the bumps through to my hands. That said, the low weight of them definitely did have some performance benefits.

[@hardmtnbiker]

@@rubbersidedown5620 it’s also related to your body weight. I’m only 155# and what is too stiff for me might flex more under heavier rides plus heavier rides might bend aluminum rims easier.

[@CoachLo3]

Best one yet! 29er conversion was awesome!

[@theozeblack]

Really nice video and great editing This series is pure fun keep going man 🤙🏼 Ps: I appreciate the lbs/kg conversion for us non US people, I’d just suggest that 30,4 lbs is more 13,6 kg unless there is some dark magic there that I don’t understand 🧐

[@EvansMTBSaga]

I forgot to change that part! I'll fix it next video

[@solomonOG]

@@EvansMTBSaga I really appreciate you adding imperial and metric systems, most KZbinrs are too lazy and then I am just confused!

[@mtbboy1993]

Some parts I like: Michelin Wild Enduro, great transition, especially on 30mm rims, but work really good on 23mm too, but 30 it's great, fakies get a lot smoother, great mud clearance, side knobs are like a mud tyre, mid rolls fast. There are two compounds for both version, for both front and rear. Gum-X3D is less sticky, MagiX- 2 is super sticky. These tyres have a much more stable feeling than High Roller 2, Shorty, I know I had 2.3, and these are 2.40 but that a lone is not the reason for it. the side knobs, great thread pattern, great combo with the transitioning knobs, and the side knobs, the side knobs are supportive, squirm less. Just by looking and feeling them by hand you it might look like it could do much difference, but I see the knobs have a very different design. all of it shows really well while riding. track stands got a lot easier, due the great thread pattern and well engineered knobs. There is a new version of the Wild Enduro that is an addition, not an replacement, it's meant to be the competition tyre, it has the yellow and blue Michelin logo. Brakes: I have Formula Cura 4, I've only had one ride on them so far, but I like them, I would put them on both a low budget build and pricy build, if I had I went for hydraulic on both. it can be serviced, all parts are aluminium. lever blade feels like Shimano. Mineral oil, so not DOT toxic corrosive, paint eating. Cheap upgrades for any bike: STZY tubeless valves: can use a mini ratchet to tighten from the bottom of the valve, you can clean it with poking something through, so you don't need a sealant eating solvent. There are several colours, and you can buy the caps in different colours too, so you can customize it well. They come n 44mm or 60mm, I went for 44mm, works well with most rims, for example DT Swiss FR560 and H552. The valve cover has a valve core tool.

[@andrewince8824]

Alloy Rims (Halo Tornado, I challenge you to find a stronger rim) laced to Hope Pro4 hubs with Halo double butted stainless spokes. When the nuclear apocalypse occurs, those wheels will be the only survivors. Front cost me £110, the rear is on order. It'll wind up about £220 all in for the rear. Not easy putting a 26 together but worth it.

[@NILoggers]

my favuorite mtb series on youtube atm!

[@nasonguy]

There's never a more classic combo than Arizona and No Berms, haha. It's really hard to build a berm out of sand, cholla pods, and rock.

[@roadlesstraveledd]

i have both. i chose carbon for my local trails that require a lot of pedaling and has lots of short punchy climbs. If there were more downhill runs the alloy wheels would've been fine. The carbon wheels were also the best upgrade over anything else on my bike. it didn't feel that significant in a driveway test at first, but on the trail it's just completely mindblowing how different it feels. I went with the newer roval control carbon with dt350 hubs - awesome wheels (although no lifetime warranty, 2 years only).

[@jklmnop943]

Fellow rider here in the Phoenix area (Mesa). Hope to see you out at Hawes some day! Your content is really good.

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Oh cool man! I'm going out there this Saturday

[@DcCock]

NOBL wheels are great. I just got a new set of them last week for my gravel bike. They're the HR35 rims with BERD spokes and i9 1/1 hubs. I have a set of BERD TR30 wheels with i9 1/1 hubs on my mountain bike and despite being a 29er, it's so much more flickable than my previous bike with 27.5" wheels was because of the huge drop in weight. BERD spokes are expensive as hell but they're price competitive with other carbon wheelsets. The full set of TR30 wheels I bought cost me $1600 and they're way stronger and lighter than the NOBL wheels you bought for this video but they don't have a lifetime warranty or silent Onyx hubs.

[@Fantaman058]

You came a long way but damm congrats on your 30K subs, your low vs high series is going great keep up the good work.

[@petersilie2432]

I don't want carbon rims on my bike - not because of the price, but because they are unrecycleable landfill when they're done (for whatever reason). I love lacing up a fresh pair of hoops every now and then. Maybe to try a new width, or because the old ones are just used up and dead. That costs me merely 100-200 euros including spokes, and the old rims can be recycled. With carbon you're pretty much fixed to the rims you're having - if you don't earn like a mogul.

[@sim_dude]

very nice, impressed by the weight difference considering it's a coil on the highbike !

[@theodskieartemis2295]

Your content is amazing bro, Im a fan of yours from the Philippines!!

[@ronelaliento09]

Maybe an slightly inaccurate test for the rims, tires have a very big difference specially when it comes to compounds, would be great if the tire high and low swap was for another video

[@falco642]

I love this has a long time donut media fan and mountain biker this is great i used to think up to speed on mtb would work great !

[@D1PP1N]

Your content is really fun to watch. Did you have a bike mechanic background? I really appreciate this series of upgrade videos and the cost to performance ratios.

[@eris-cs]

maybe I just found my new favorite mtb channel. keep up the good content mr. :))

[@jacobdanezaspa7620]

I can tell evans channel is the type of channel that can get 100k subs in a year

[@MazdaMiata-gt8kw]

congrats on 30k evan! you deserve it

[@L3GHO5T]

I got the tr32’s with dt180 Hubs on my v10. Love ‘em!

[@Someone6580]

I knew I’ve heard the intro song from somewhere then when you said donut media it made sense😂

[@randombuilds8336]

Bicycles are crazy expensive, even the low bike is more than I'm willing to spend. But I also ride a 2018 specialized rockhopper I picked up used for $200. It's crazy that bicycle wheels cost as much or more than building new wheels for my dirtbikes.

[@thegloriouspotato6223]

Awesome video series! Such an underrated channel!

[@letsgo_inc]

Okay, Chad was slick with the boost hub fix

[@derDKP]

Are you going to do a reasonable upgrade bike afterwards? The most impactful and smartest way to spend the money?

[@joechilders205]

That's a great idea. I hope he does.

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Absolutely!

[@shredmtb4884]

Gotta say I love your Chanel man got all the great content I need

[@Digthenride]

I have school right now but this is more important

[@oresthse4668]

Noice he is giving credit to donut media! Benn watching both channels for a long time! Great progress

[@janukachandrasena5915]

A mountain biker who also likes Donut? finally!

[@mckleinbalusdan2912]

Wow, great video, you are like the michael vsauce of mountain biking

[@dho]

LOL the jeff kendall weed thing was super funny the dude is just popping wheelies for an entire video

[@molybdnum]

Not taking the opportunity to clean up and repaint the spanks with all the spokes off is killing me! The weight reduction even on the low bike is nice! Food for thought, I think that upgrade alone would actually get the Siskiu D-series comfortably clear of the 32/34lb suggested max on a lot of car roof racks.

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Haha I scrubbed them with every chemical I had, they were super stained by old sealant

[@Storm____]

Man I love this series

[@matthewkelly4107]

Great content, I'm amazed at the difference from the rims! Is it possible to isolate this by swapping the wheels across and rerunning? I just can't believe that's the single reason for the time improvement

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Maybe I'll do it as a short, but the Shimano cassette has to be compatible

[@matthewkelly4107]

@@EvansMTBSaga do you think it's singularly from the rims? Is there an easier way to cross check it?

[@jamieb2865]

Great vid! The biggest upgrade though may have been the Minions.

[@luijijalandoon9332]

New subscriber here man. Very informative!

[@jacobg130productions]

Chad: *Shows insight and foresight and isn’t obnoxious about it* Now that’s a Chad moment right there

[@sammyshellard]

Better than the donut series!

[@caseys_cozy_garage]

Dat low bike be looking sharp

[@AZREDFERN]

Did you go to Black Mountain BMX? Also, why are you pouring milk in the tire? Are they not getting enough calcium?

[@willowsmutt8313]

Just recently (over winter) bought my first mtb. At 63 it has been a good ten or so yrs. I picked up a fsr sport. It has carbon wheels, I know nothing about... so trying to learn a bit

[@bestsony4933]

My budget for bikes and parts always been under$100😂 the more we pay premium the more companies will charge us more 😢

[@reedmelicher8658]

You should've gotten the ones with Berd Spokes!

[@thephoenixcycle8854]

For average people I think carbon is better for its lack of maintenance. Ride and ride and never really need to do anything to them. Carbon will pay for itself because you won't have to keep buying rims and have them rebuilt all the time. I like carbon because I they make me feel faster than I am and I have more fun

[@dougsrosen]

You could buy spanx rims 5 times, before you equal one pair of those carbon wheels. If you aren't racing who cares about saving 4 minutes an hour. Although I have ridden my friends carbon rims and they pull off the line hard. I love gear.

[@andreroths6560]

Great series Evan, saw bikesonline at sea otter and had to let them know too

[@aiman4557]

You should arrange your high to low series.

[@pabloriverahicks582]

great video ,i love your channel

[@Gonna_be_rich_69.]

i love all the upgrades for the bikes. it tell me more about upgrades

[@IvanDoesMTB]

Cant wait for the handlebars! hahaha i recently upgrade a not so expensive deity bars and stem on my budget bike.

[@haentz]

I actually sold 4 year old Syntace carbon wheels for quite some money (they were straight like new). Probably wouldn't even have been able to do so with aluminium wheels, if they hold up that long anyway…

[@GumpterCrayon]

you're doing a really great job on this series! MT7 HC3's for the high bike coming up?

[@EvansMTBSaga]

More expensive brakes!

[@thomasjanssen3643]

Trickstuff direttissima brakes? Those brakes cost around 1000 euros per brake

[@EvansMTBSaga]

@@thomasjanssen3643 Pretty good guess!

[@martinmtb32]

i personally think that since you went with an air shock on the low bike you should’ve gone air on the high bike, to make it more even im a certain matter, if you went air, you could have gone with the fox x2 since its their highest spec shock

[@tobydoesthings]

Hey even I think it would be a great idea if you invested into a park tool, internal cable routing tool to make builds Easy when the bike has internal cable routing like your polygon t7

[@ianthompson9653]

30k subscribers! Wow congratulations!

[@MrDaimpi]

What is this? How much did you spend?! 😂😂😂 Definitely the best of your series. Thanks a lot for your content and greets from 🇩🇪

[@frotto]

I hope the high bike gets Trickstuff Direttissima brakes

[@EvansMTBSaga]

I do have my eye on Trickstuff 😍

[@jklmnop943]

Order now and you will have them next year lol

[@rhyeonjoplo464]

i thought you will go for a mullet set up but i remember that big clearance in the rear so i think the bikes was meant to upgrade for a 29er

[@jlj547]

I am glad your channel is exploxing cause wew your spending some serious cash. 😄

[@noahsykes1668]

“Does expensive mean better” Yes yes it does However somethings are ridiculously priced

[@zwingler]

Lifetime warranty xD Even if you get a new set after potentially having to fight your way through customer support, depending on where you live and where your nearest retailer is and how well customer support forwards your request to shipping it might take up to a month or even longer for the new rim to come and then you still gotta lace the damn thing. A bent or dented rim obviusly doesn't feel as good but usually you can get by until a new one from the cheapest online retailer arrives within mostly 3-5 days.

[@TurboGroszek1]

Lifetime warranty for things like mtb bikes/parts is such pointless thing overall. Normaly warranty covers production errors or faulty parts. How can you even say if a wheel broke because of production error or if the user was madman shredding the wheels on the trail. Even the greatest wheels will break after very intenste usage.

[@mtbboy1993]

I don't think I will go for the Vesper hubs, despite it meaning Wasps in Norwegian 😁 I don't know if that was intentionally ironic. I've read a Norwegian dude broke it, but Onyx replied him and did not reccomend them for Norwegian trail riding. So he went for the classic hubs, which are beefier and heavier. I've also seen vid where Hardtail Party mentioned he tried Vesper but broke them too. But he had great success with the classic hubs. But it will be interesting to see whay your experience will be.

[@Huldru]

I’m really disappointed that you didn’t test the wheels with the exact same tires. That’s a huge additional variable.

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Dude they're almost the same ...

[@Huldru]

@@EvansMTBSaga I feel ya. But the compound can make a massive difference.

[@jackarnoldy8966]

8:00 if you have already bought the brakes for the bikes, you should get a set of magura mt thirty’s.

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Brakes have been purchased. Couldn't get my hand on Maguras though

[@TienNguyen-dw6br]

Nice content bro, we all need this!

[@snowyroo6907]

never knew that this was based off of the 350z’s on donut media

[@Tomcoma2832]

Actually comparison.Not super expensive vs the cheapest unusable parts that can’t actually be used on a real trail. Way better than pink bikes series

[@NoahKeener.]

I love your vids but I would’ve definitely gone for loud hubs I don’t know why just like the sound

[@roni_pro5086]

I bet you, that you gonna be a famous and successful KZbin.