What You Need To Know About Hyundai's NACS Transition

[@EVBuyersGuide]

4:33 - Oops, I meant "South Korea". Sorry, I had the Carolinas on the mind....

[@ichinichisan]

4:33 Dang, did South Carolina secede again?! And from the whole continent this time??

[@pretendtobenormal8064]

They were first to secede the last time too.

[@omnipotent_arcanis]

I assumed that he meant South Korea… but then I remembered that Georgia’s 17th is near the tri-state border with Tennessee and South Carolina.

[@scott8919]

I've always wanted to travel to other countries like Japan, France, and South Carolina.

[@anthonyc8499]

We now call it South Karolina and they’ve swapped collard greens for kimchi.

[@faeinthebay]

Funnily, you'll find pockets of Korean influence around Hyundai and Kia plants. There's a Kia plant on the edge of Georgia which has a few really authentic Korean restaurants nearby. But everything else is standard rural Georgia.

[@jghall00]

Sounds like an improvement.

[@ThomasRSmith-og7zo]

I like Kimchi 😂

[@laloajuria4678]

funny, we also use Ks to describe SC....

[@cliff9887]

Does everything have to be an analogy?

[@wpelfeta]

4:34 South Carolina 🤣🤣

[@Heartless_13224]

Thank you for talking about 277 volt charging. This seems like a great option for charging that isn't talked about enough.

[@patrick7228]

I feel like they missed a huge opportunity with the port location. Coming out first with it and having a port that would allow them to only take up one spot would have been huge.

[@ALMX5DP]

Longer cables will continue to roll out. And being it’s an inferior charging capability to current CCS not such a big deal in my mind as most who want a quicker charge will steer clear of Superchargers for now.

[@Hans-gb4mv]

They are not going to change it for just the NA market.

[@patrick7228]

@@Hans-gb4mv Fair. Great point.

[@kevinn1158]

@@patrick7228 Actually I think Tesla should be putting their port on the passenger side. Many city chargers are on the street side and having the port on the passenger side makes this the way to go.

[@RJ_Taylor]

@@kevinn1158 You make a really good point.

[@gpvelc8399]

Alex, when I’m on the road I don’t charge 10% to 80%. Most of the time is to 55-60% then moving on to the next charger. If people are stoping for a meal then 20 to 30 minutes is not a big deal. I think the convenient locations of the superchargers and the sheer numbers of them make the bigger difference. I personally wouldn’t mind a slightly slower charging speed if I know the charger will work almost every time like the superchargers. Having the CCS options would just be icing on the cake.

[@ALMX5DP]

Is ~10-60% generally considered quicker than going to 80? Or are the increased number of potential stops negating that in some way?

[@gpvelc8399]

@ It really depends on the charging curve of the vehicle. When I’m on the road with my family, they need stops/bathroom break every couple of hours or so for about 15-20 minutes. That usually is enough but I’m not trying to get to my destination asap.

[@lemongavine]

The bigger battery technically charges faster than the small battery. Yes, it takes longer to get to 80%, but you’re adding more miles in the same amount of time

[@harvey66616]

_"you’re adding more miles in the same amount of time"_ -- *maybe*. Miles added rate depends on charging power. In theory, larger batteries can charge faster (for a few different reasons). But whether this actually happens depends on other factors, including the charging infrastructure itself. Hyundai is claiming the new 84 kWh battery will charge 10-80% in the same 18 minutes they quoted for the old 77.4 kWh battery. So on the face of it, it seems like you're getting more miles in the same amount of time. But in practice, this is unlikely. Few charging stations can provide the power (350 kW) Hyundai's claim is based on, and even if you use one that does, you often will run into other limitations, such as power sharing between charging station bays as well as restrictions on delivered power due to battery or charging equipment temperature. In these cases, the same limitations would apply to both batteries equally, and so you're going to see the same number of miles added for a given amount of charging time, regardless of the battery size.

[@BillB33525]

The rollout of access to the TSuC Netork has been a frustration to everyone where their brand has not been announced. Why isn't there a schedule pubished so everyone knows when to expect access?

[@GlitterGuru]

It’s almost like the entire supercharger network team was fired overnight. Oh wait 😂

[@peterwright837]

@@GlitterGuruand the CEO is moonlighting as an oligarch.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

I wish they'd make the EV3 in the USA.

[@Yubuzka3774]

Tesla's including the new model 3 Highland take over 30 mins to charge to 80%. Hyundai has done well to match that time on Superchargers which are based on the legacy 400 volt architecture. I think it still makes sense for most ioniq 5 owners to go to the faster CCS chargers unless its an emergency.

[@ayushmalpeddi2793]

Hyundai is mainly doing this because customers want NACS even though it sucks for 800v cars where max charging rate is significantly reduced. Most customers in reality dont need it. Only reason NACS is better is jts more reliable kf you do frequent road tripping by a wide margin still. I know 7 people with Teslas who have had them for about 2-3 years on average with 30K miles currently and I think they have all used supercharging only a few times ever.

[@sprockkets]

Well, when Ford and then GM announced they were switching, then everyone else had to. Really, the port is irrelevant - the equipment doing the charging is the issue. Tesla does a good job. Others like Kempower, Flo, and another german brand IIRC do good too, and are now setup in the US to make equipment.

[@Sugashak212]

I agree 2 years in with my Model Y and only at 17k miles on the screen! (Wanted to dash but don't have one lol). But I'm tired of the Tesla and only reason bought it cause Supercharger reliability!! This make me so happy that I another option to consider for none Tesla EV. Now I have to compare between Mach E and Ionic 5!!

[@StephenByersJ]

Does J1772 spec max out at 240V and not support 277V? Would be super nice if current eGMP cars can handle 277V even if technically the charge port sticker doesn’t say so. Mostly just for peace of mind in case you accidentally plugged into an extra spicy AC connector without realizing. I don’t mind so much the reduced charge rate if it opens up way more commercial charging spots.

[@sprockkets]

Out of curiosity, the onboard charger in my 2020 Niro EV, says it can input up to 277 as is. Maybe that's not high enough if you get say 285 due to voltage fluctuations, but that's way higher than around 250 of normal 240 volts.

[@ccartter]

I have a 2024 Ioniq 5. When will adapters be availble for NACS charging? I assume that Hyundai will also have to do a software update of my vehicle to support NACS?

[@sprockkets]

What's funny is on my 2020 niro ev, iirc i just took the cover off to clean the components, and the ac charger said it can input up to 277 volts as is, so....

[@johnelegant1727]

Thank you Alex for another very informative video.

[@frankcoffey]

I wonder if any automaker will have both CCS and NACS so you get the best of any charge station you are at?

[@harvey66616]

Seems unlikely, I doubt auto makers and designers are going to want the hassles and cost of the second port, in terms of locating it on the car, making space for it, and of course the parts. More likely we'll continue to see dual-head charging stations for a while, to support those owners who don't already have an adapter. And in all the reporting I've seen, I haven't seen anything suggesting that using an adapter would limit charging speed _because of the adapter_ . There are other issues related to slight variances between the standards and especially the available supply equipment, but to avoid those would require not just dual ports on the car, but also completely independent charging circuits, i.e. more than just an internal adapter, which is only going to add to cost even more, which I don't see auto makers signing up for.

[@MrKevinLeis]

As someone who just purchased the 2024 i5, I find this news worrisome. Going forward a couple of years, will I ever be able to be able to fast charge again?

[@warmon6]

You can still find CHAdeMO chargers today nearly a decade after almost everyone went to ccs and that wasn't a big charging standard here in the US. There will be CCS chargers for a long while Also charger adapters between CCS and NACS already exist. I can't imagine long term your EV will be excluded from using an adapter to charge on a nacs charger.

[@Reittihw]

There's a cost associated with upgrading for 277V charging to reduce the risk of overheating during AC charging. Perhaps this isn't needed for folks who primarily rely upon home charging and occasional DC Fast. But 277 onboard upgrade could be offered as an option for apartment dwellers and others with inadequate home infrastructure.

[@bilzoo20001]

Im interesting to see how fast other networks (EA, etc.) Roll out NACS. Wouldnt be suprised if we see more 800V NACS stations that arent tesla.

[@jeffs6090]

I was thinking the Equinox would be the first one with a nacs port. I think they said early next year, by Feb or March. Then Optiq right behind it.

[@joebullwinkle5099]

Interesting that Tesla has a huge charging network that where most of it is soon going to be out of date only natively supporting 400V architecture, they have only just announced a new V4 Cabinet, that natively supports up to 1000V DC fast charging.

[@gregb7353]

Weird that some are still trying to make the j3400 thing something people say. There are tons of standards known by more friendly names, and NACS is what is obviously going to stick.

[@stevegordon8141]

You never mentioned my 2023 Ioniq 6 … is there a timeline for that?

[@EPeltzer]

The question I'm not sure is ever answered here: can this Hyundai charge at every Tesla supercharger location? And if not, which ones? And is it easy to tell? With the correct adapter my ID4 can technically charge at Tesla chargers - only almost none of the Tesla supercharger locations are actually compatible with that.

[@EVBuyersGuide]

No, only V3 and V4 stations which is around 3/4 of the total stations.

[@MegaMijit]

so NACS will replace its CCS port or it will be in addition to???

[@EVBuyersGuide]

It will replace it. -Travis

[@glenngore6609]

Replacing my current ‘22 Ioniq 5 with one with the NACS connector is completely a non-issue for me here in the central part of the US where I live, because between I-25 and I-35 and between I-40 and I-70, there are only 2 Supercharger sites and both of them are only V2’s, meaning that no non-Tesla EV can charge at either one of them, no matter who makes the vehicle. Tesla is completely ignoring this huge part of the country and has no plans to build any new Superchargers in the area. The area does contain several CCS DCFC charging sites where any EV can charge and more are being constructed with NEVI funding.

[@peterwright837]

Wait, didn’t we just endure months of hearing how Elon and his new lord and savior are the champions of rural heartland where all the “real” Americans live. Something doesn’t seem to add up here. Don’t tell me they were lying to us!

[@james2042]

The V2's do not support ccs adapters, but should support this as this has the nacs native. Won't be fast but it should work

[@peterwright837]

@ my understanding of the problem with the V2’s is they use a different communication protocol that CCS cars don’t speak. Apparently the older Teslas used it and the newer ones speak both the old and new standard so they can work with all the stations.

[@glenngore6609]

@@peterwright837 Correct. The only sites where non-Teslas can charge are V3's or "V4's" which are in reality only slightly upgraded V3's. Magic Docks, which have now been discontinued by Tesla and will not be installed at any more Supercharger sites,, were only installed on V3's. There are many V2 Superchargers out there, with this part of the country full of them, so using a non-Tesla in the middle of the country is a complete crap shoot

[@axion8788]

Really useful info. I drive a 2023 Ioniq 5 . The reduction in the maximum charging rate at Tesla Superchargers is IRRELEVANT due to the exponential increase in the NUMBER/AVAILABILITY of chargers. People need to think more in terms of "to get where I'm going". Side note. The "time to reach 80% is not a very meaningful measure when you consider the range of battery capacities. kW delivery rate is the measure of all things.

[@ALMX5DP]

I think it all depends on someone’s geographic location and current infrastructure around them or where they are going. And 80% to me is still useful as it effectively communicates a range estimate for the given vehicle.

[@BubbaBearsFriend]

Actually, miles per minute added is what matters to an average driver.

[@jghall00]

Incorrect. As someone else said, you have to take both charge rate AND vehicle efficiency into consideration. So average miles added per hour is the most important metric.

[@milesjohnson6928]

He meant to say South Korea… the IONIQ 5N is build in South Korea…

[@EVBuyersGuide]

Yep. My bad

[@npatu2003]

South Carolina is not considered as North America anymore?!?

[@Dqtube]

The change to 20 minutes is not due to battery size. The international version has the same battery size, but has stayed at 18 minutes. The version produced in North America must be different in some other aspect.

[@harvey66616]

I think you're just seeing differences in reporting. The US web site for Hyundai states 18 minutes for 10-80% charge, just like the EU web site, and the Korean site for that matter. Anyone saying 20 minutes is either just rounding, or is informed by some other marketing or reporting that was rounding.

[@ManPhoto50]

Can you charge at a Tesla V2 station?

[@lemongavine]

That’s a good question. I’d say probably not, but hopefully someone who knows will chime in

[@Reittihw]

I am more entertained than I should be by the notion that south carolina is not in north america

[@junehanzawa5165]

Does anyone know which location the charging port will be on this new 2025 model with a NACS port? 10:02

[@BubbaBearsFriend]

Which is the most practical side (left vs. right) for curbside chargers in North America.

[@acerIOstream]

​@@BubbaBearsFriend yeah Tesla's wrong here, curbside port is superior (passenger)

[@ScrappyDoodad]

It's almost like there should be both for a few years until the NACS has a solid footing

[@EVBuyersGuide]

Both ports in the vehicle? That seems more than a little clunky to manage. -Travis

[@drnick40]

Now the Hyundai is going to be made in the USA is worth to be considered. Good.

[@COSolar6419]

The slow charging (97 kW max) is just one of the reasons I am not that excited about having Ioniq 5 access to Superchargers.

[@GlitterGuru]

True but sure beats waiting in line for 45min just to charge for 15 😅

[@COSolar6419]

@ True but in three years I have only had to wait once to DCFC. That was less than five minutes. It depends a lot on where you are.

[@Rich1Rodriguez]

The Tesla plug/network is technically inferior at this time. Most newer CCS machines from Electrify America support 800v. Facts matter. And, really, manufacturers are crazy to allow their vehicles to charge at a Tesla branded charger. Really? It’s like allowing the use of your Macy’s card at Nordstroms. It’s all a marketing poly by Tesla to gain market share. So obvious….

[@harvey66616]

I agree with your first statement. Not so much the second. Auto makers are switching to NACS because a common claim by consumers who aren't buying EVs is that they don't like the limited charging infrastructure. Switching to NACS/J3400 greatly expands potential charging locations, and especially improves availability metrics, since Tesla's network largely is better maintained than the others. I don't see any benefit in _car_ sales to Tesla for sharing their network. They do gain the extra revenue from the new users of their charging network, but that's not going to improve their auto sales share. And for the other auto makers, as long as it costs them less to pay Tesla to use their network than it would cost them to build out their own network to compete with Superchargers, it's a win. In the very long run, it's probably net neutral for everyone. What's important is that there's a standard. In the short term, it's a mixed bag, since regardless of car brand, you're going to be able to use some stations natively and require an adapter for others. I'd argue this helps non-Tesla brands more than Tesla brands though: Tesla cars already have the numerical advantage in where they can charge, so anything that offsets that advantage -- such as other makers being able to use Superchargers -- is going to help non-Tesla sales at the expense of Tesla sales. That said, I suspect that in fact any effect the plug standard change will have on relative sales numbers for each brand is going to be swamped by other factors. I.e. while I don't think the switch to NACS helps Tesla as you say, I also don't think it's going to be a significant help for sales of non-Tesla manufacturers. Most owners are just looking "EV" first, and will just deal with whatever plug type they wind up with. For now, the vast majority of buyers are still charging at home the vast majority of time, so the plug type is just a different option in the dropdown when they buy their EVSE to go with their car. In other cases, they will already have the EVSE, and if they need an adapter they'll live with it just fine (that's what I do, charging my Model S using the EVSE I bought previously for my LEAF). I see very few EV buyers using plug type as a key determining factor for which car to buy; maybe as a final tie-break, but so far the EV market is so disparate it's hard to imagine a buyer looking at things like range, efficiency, cost, body style and interior, integrated technology, and the rest and still having exactly zero opinion between two different make/model options such that the purchase decision comes down to the plug type.

[@justanotherguy7798]

Why does the picture have the charge port on the right side did they go to NACS plug but will still be inconvenient to get the cable to the vehicle.

[@joer4367]

I think that is the case. I'm interested in the Kia EV 3 and the port is on the right-front, which would avoid having to occupy two stalls at a Tesla charger.

[@EVBuyersGuide]

It's on the right side because curbside charging is safer if it's on the right side (in a left hand drive country). Tesla's connector is on a bad side for this and it appears we are getting more and more curbside charging.

[@Yanquetino]

What I don't understand is WHY Tesla has yet to give the green light to Hyundai to plug in at Superchargers, according to the "approved" automaker list on its NACS webpage. The 2025 Ioniq 5's are coming off the assembly line in Georgia, will shortly go on sale, so get your act together, Tesla!

[@junehanzawa5165]

They're getting access on Jan 15, 2025.

[@Yanquetino]

@@junehanzawa5165 So… those who buy a 2025 Model now or in December will just have to wait until then to be able to charge it? Real dumb.

[@RW-ur7ym]

Real dumb to buy any EV if you can’t change it at home!

[@junehanzawa5165]

@Yanquetino How so? They can charge it anywhere else with the provided CCS adapter. Jan 15, 2025, or 2 months from now, will be for the additional availability of the massive and ubiquitous Tesla network. Also, I'm not sure those models will be available until early this coming year, so it's a moot point you're making.

[@junehanzawa5165]

@RW-ur7ym Well, you can stay with your ICE vehicle. I take it you have a gas pump at home? For the rest, who know they can charge anywhere they go in America with supercharger access, and have actually looked up charging maps online and see for themselves rather than listening to online Luddite trolls, they'll buy the EV's. And that includes the over 200 million Americans who have a home and can have a home charger but can't get the gas pump at home like we're sure you must have.

[@megaroeny]

All of it is so fast anyways, compared to my 100 kW Leaf Plus 😂

[@carlfe4891]

So you trade one adapter for another and get worse performance on the native port. Sounds like progress. J3400 practically bound to Tesla is problematic. EA and others need to adopt sooner rather than later.

[@sprockkets]

Also, I just want to know if they allow access at older v2 or v1 stations. I'm guessing no, since nacs doesn't speak chademo.

[@laloajuria4678]

nope because proprietary comms.

[@EVBuyersGuide]

Nope, because those stations can't "speak CCS" in a nutshell

[@laloajuria4678]

the koreans winning the ev race is wild......

[@RW-ur7ym]

“Koreans winning the EV race” 😂 I guess that’s why the Tesla Model Y is the best selling car in the world!

[@frankcoffey]

Far out. I was thinking the Ford Mustang Mach-E would have been the first with NACS but congrats to Hyundai.

[@GeorgeKnighton]

Well. This isn’t at all complicated. 0_o

[@SteveRiggins]

This is all short term. New stations should move to 800v NACS

[@peterwright837]

Is that before or after the new roadster, Tesla model 2 and robotaxis are released.

[@laloajuria4678]

theres not a single new station going 800v from qElmo.

[@SteveRiggins]

@@laloajuria4678 I think these will come from Ionna and other vendors I would rather support anyway.

[@SteveRiggins]

@@peterwright837 not from Tesla but other vendors as they move to NACS with adapters for CCS cars

[@ThomasRSmith-og7zo]

News Flash, South Carolina is in North America 😅

[@peterwright837]

Tesla doesn’t seem to be in a big hurry to make 800V charging a great experience. I guess CyberTruck drivers will need to keep using CCS chargers to get the best speeds. Maybe if Elon spent more time running Tesla instead of trying to take over the US government things would improve faster for EV drivers.

[@RW-ur7ym]

If Elon can improve the efficiency of the government as he did with Twitter we will all benefit! He appears to be good at multitasking.

[@peterwright837]

@ tell me how spreading lies, misinformation, and hate speech is going to improve the efficiency of the government, while also tanking the economy with tariffs and mass deportations.

[@Tokamak3.1415]

@@peterwright837 If the economy tanks we'll be consuming less and putting out less CO2. Didn't you hear it was an existential threat? While we're at it we can slash government and military and pay off that insane debt.

[@ivanguerini995]

Much better Chevy EVs

[@technologyandsociety21C]

No wonder EVs aren't selling -- what a confusing mess!

[@vancity2349]

Arnt selling? What rock are you living under?

[@RONderluck]

Huh? It’s not confusing at all.

[@diymadness2330]

Don't you edit your crap? You said "built in South Carolina" when you intended to say "South Korea".