EVE Online: What is CCP doing to Wormholes???

A discussion video about the recent changes to wormhole space in Equinox and the long term trend that seems to be shaping up.
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[@billnotice9957]

As I understand it. The CCP developers were startled capsulers moved in permanently. They intended "J" space to be day trippers and transits.

[@waddenderas7774]

That would make sense. Maybe they'll find a reason to 'shatter' all wormholes

[@Immemorian]

Just wait for the next update. They’ll prolly nerf pochven income and nerf blue loot +wh gas. They only care about getting people to buy more Plex instead of making the game fun. More fun =more players. In their mind, more scarcity=more Plex purchases

[@billnotice9957]

@@Immemorian I agree.

[@justsoicanfingcomment5814]

I habe only ever day tripped WH's with ocasional logout for few days to let hunters lose intrest and pass then escape.

[@stephen8132]

Ccp have been making it hard for small corporations across the game. They seem to not like small groups. Iike taking away medium structures reinforcement timer. I still think a medium structure set as HQ should get two timers.

[@waddenderas7774]

Completely agree

[@jaykay5838]

The CSM has some play in this too.

[@Taz6688]

Not sure what I am looking at, it seems to be the same old roundabout, @(insert name here) is too good and people are not doing what we want, 'We have changed the (insert name here) to enable better play), no one wants to do (insert name here) anymore, no profit, too hard for the return. CCP, hey we are giving you all these toys, new stuff to make what we nerf'd better again. an endless cycle of nerf and buff, when people drift off because its not enjoyable or fun, they cannot just admit the changes were wrong, but add something new to replace it.

[@wingandaprayer883]

The agenda is, they added capital sites to encourage folks to risk a 70b super to get a 250m isk payout. They want to see more die, so that folks ping that credit card to buy another.

[@alexl6839]

CCP is literally incapable of admitting design mistakes

[@thedronebay]

Well said! I hope your prediction of wormholes getting their day in the sun is next. I had not pieced together that each other region has gotten major updates in a row like they have.

[@waddenderas7774]

I really hope so!

[@jarabis1]

I so agree with this. With the great game design that CCP does I can't imagine why they're going with this as the solution. Surely they would want to take away the boring farm by like increasing the chance for a wandering hole to appear on each escalation, that way we can get more krabbing fleets that turn into pvp, more capital fights in J-space, and not choke off people who don't want to align with C5-6 alliances

[@KarlJeager]

The Drifter spawning a wormhole would be a really interesting mechanic, I wonder if more people would be pissed off at having the safe farming gone or joyful at having a new way to find more fights.

[@waddenderas7774]

This is what's got me so confused, it's like they're actively encouraging the zero content farm hole mechanics

[@DepravedHeart]

Took away our good moons a couple years ago, now took away drifters from low class. What else are they going to take to try to get us to move out?

[@jamesbrown5262]

yeah I miss the moons, would be a good reason for many to come back. Also an internal WH mapping feature would be cool even if it tooks skills to unlock, maybe some WH sov items.

[@waddenderas7774]

Yeah I'd forgotten that higher class moons used to be available

[@fergus247]

Isogen was dropping leading up to the expansion but now its almost at 500 again. So whatever CCP have been trying to do to make isogen drop they seemed to undo it with Equinox

[@adas7707]

Isogen is mineable in null sec. In good quantities. Has been for a long time. Trit has been available in null sec via hauler spawns.

[@memitim171]

Even if you live in a C5>C5 you kinda got shafted by this, you can't put 5 or 6 dreads into the static to do a bit of ratting with your corpies...you would think CCP would prefer that kind of gameplay over farmholes but apparently not. On the plus side, if the skyhook material is worth a decent amount, between that and ESS banks, we might not ever have to rat again... 😈

[@2ktc24]

this is what I'm saying. nestor/leshak fleets are the only fleet PVE activity ive never done that actually feels worth it the time and made me want to get in fleets with friends. now it'll just be solo dreads.

[@2ktc24]

and a fleet of nestor/leshaks is risking more overall isk than 1 nag anyway sooooo??

[@waddenderas7774]

Completely agree, the only real outcome I see is that they've created farm holes and reduced content overall. I am looking forward to the Skyhook robbing :)

[@waddenderas7774]

Absolutely! That aspiration of being able to work towards these high-end j-space fleets has been completely removed

[@wingandaprayer883]

They need to re-address ESS tbh.. at the moment it's just dumb. There is usually very little incentive to defend them, because the wormholers are always either baiting or flying kitey bullshit. You have to form up in under 5 minutes against a prepared gang, only to chase them out.. because they will always run if there is a remote threat of losing. Personally I would like to see it removed. It doesn't generate good content.

[@shadowpoet1047]

Great to the point video. Thank you.

[@waddenderas7774]

Thank you!

[@smoore6461]

I have to assume that CCP has something planned for J-space and they have just been working down the list. It would make no sense otherwise.

[@MikelosM]

Something bad, presumably. I'm trying my best to think of something good, but it seems every change they've made specifically targeting j-space over the last 5-6 years has intentionally diminished QoL.

[@Wolvri23]

@@MikelosM The same case could be made for SovNull but they finally made some positive ground with this patch. So things could be on the horizon for J Space

[@MikelosM]

@@Wolvri23 Perhaps: not a null guy but play with many who moonlight there. The main complaint I hear from them regarding my aforementioned timeframe is "scarcity!"...which was really just a reversion to the historical mean after CCP gave them access to near-infinite resources a few years prior.

[@waddenderas7774]

This is what I'm clinging to tbh. And with all the great revamps to the different parts of K-space, I think we have justification to hope it's coming

[@MisterDinosaur]

I've learnt that this kind of "hope" is badly spent on CCP.

[@SilvahniCadence]

I have been living in WH's since 2015, they have never given us J-spacers much and yet we still maintain. I think that WH'ers are just unique, we have never really had much rarity in any resources and yet we love living in WH's. I do agree with you, it does appear like a pattern and I do hope the next expansion gives us a bit of something because you are right it would be very discouraging if the only place in all of New Eden is left out; J-space.

[@Oridian22]

So the ability to completely shut down a farming hole from outside players and rake in billions per hour "isn't giving j-spacers much" ? I think you've been doing it wrong.

[@MikelosM]

I haven't found anywhere that explicitly states the number of runs for the Metenox blueprint, except for the industry window in-game which shows 6 runs. If that's the case, then the total unit cost to build seems to be 1.7-1.8b (plus 5-6 days of build time per unit, and then of course reagent costs). If that's accurate, then they're much more viable. Still, I can't imagine this being actually useful in j-space; I'm betting there won't even be many large groups in high-class systems with good moons that'll try to maintain hole control for one to two months while rolling the dice on this (at the same time that market prices are collapsing).

[@waddenderas7774]

The BPO should have unlimited runs, the limit in the industry window will just be how many runs you can activate at once. Using the BPO price in my video was misleading, but I think with the likely crash in moon materials price its still going to be a very slow process to recoup the investment in J-space

[@MikelosM]

@@waddenderas7774 Oh, that's interesting! It's been ages since I've done any industry (and it was almost always from BPCs): does that mean you can run up to 6 jobs simultaneously from that single BPO, instead of 1 run per blueprint at a time?

[@waddenderas7774]

@@MikelosM not quite! It means you can queue up to 6 jobs to run sequentially from that one BPO, but then you'll need to reset the job

[@Chipz1337]

We have already seen several small WH corps fold or pull out of J space. They have all headed to null.... I really hope we can find a way to balance this out or that CCP will give J-space some love! Maybe give an equivalent escalation for lower tier wormholes, C4 need a mauder, C3 a battleship, C2 a battle cruiser and C1 a cruiser.... Obviously the isk would be significantly less for each tier but it would help address the loss of content.

[@waddenderas7774]

I like that as an idea. Just helps to change things up and add an additional challenge that people can aspire too

[@R0bstar-YT]

I hear you, but when was the last time you did C4s? They are not the equivalent of C5s with no drifter.

[@Ggrid]

not really c4 only pay 100 per site, c5 without drifter is around 200 to 220 m per site without drifter

[@waddenderas7774]

I have for sure exaggerated a little, but for me in my Golem they are now comparable isk/hr. Source: I live in a C4 with a C4 static

[@midnitdragoon]

Wh space life needs a big revamp as is. I used to be in a Wh Corp for several years and finally left. CCP needs to find a way to incorporate the out of game tools to function in Wh space to be available in game... That would be a great start. Wh space living is pretty daunting for new players as is

[@waddenderas7774]

Yeah, it does seem pretty mad that it's more or less impossible to live in WH using only in-game tools

[@Zelinator1]

U less you like the feeling of being lost and surprisingly stumbling on an exit. Wh space without third party tools is like a maze.

[@jamesbrown5262]

I never saw a luxury yacht roll a hole, seems like a problem that didnt need fixing.

[@SilvahniCadence]

We used to use them all the time but it must have fallen out of use. Probably the first time they were nerfed.

[@DougDibrimi]

....why the hell with all the new ores? was there something hard about restoring some of the old pre-Scarcity spawns? And a massive 4th-wall breaking mechanic where sov owners can just spawn what they want? holy crap this will go incredibad, I predict.

[@waddenderas7774]

Great question

[@masserphi2534]

We need to update THERA and ADD MORE connections ;)

[@waddenderas7774]

YES

[@VV-sk5zh]

Great video. Are you guys looking for new members? If so, how can I reach you?

[@waddenderas7774]

Always :) You can just shoot me a message in game and I'll get you connected with a recruiter. My IGN is just Wadd Enderas to make things easy

[@jk7878]

You have no idea the mess nullsec now is since the changes.

[@user-rl4tu8yd6e]

Good. I hope they are confused as hell for at least a year or two.

[@waddenderas7774]

I've been hearing things... has it started to settle down yet?

[@munkymunk9053]

There are perfectly viable alternatives to rolling yachts, you can figure it out. The drifter changes have put more dreads in space which is great for nice kills. As for roaching C5s from lower class holes, the isk/hour of sites is pretty comparable to the drifter, you'll just need to roll the static more often to run extra sites. On top of that, your marauders can be fit with MJD's now that they don't need as much capacitor protection so ratting is much safer!

[@demlar4425]

I think your overlooking what's been said. The only way dread's will be caught is rage rolling. How is it great that it hurts smaller groups? Do you wormhole? Putting risk on the field SHOULD pay. The most dangerous space should have the best rewards. Having to run 2+ marauders to do them decently means you roughly have 10-14b on the grid how is it different from dread's?

[@munkymunk9053]

@@demlar4425 We've already caught multiple dreads through crit holes since the patch, do YOU even wormhole? Also, if your marauder + pod costs 7 billion then you are doing it wrong! You obviously didn't read what I said because I said that the sites do still pay just as well as before, you just need to find more of them. Part of being a wormholer is adapting to ever-changing surroundings and sounds like you just can't handle changing the way you play.

[@demlar4425]

@@munkymunk9053 Interesting, you obviously know more than others that live in the same space. Great you caught people in a crit hole. Adapting to continuous nerfs isin't something to be proud of. It sounds like you love the change, good for you. I don't really want to endorse large gangs. Smaller gangs was what made it fun. This change does not do that, no lower classes roachers can ever do drifters again. Part of gameplay and pvp completely purged but keep cheering it on.

[@munkymunk9053]

@@demlar4425 Not sure how the changes purged any PVP at all, kinda a weird take. Who cares if you can't do drifters, do twice as many sites and make almost the same isk you made before. You're just moaning without even trying to see if it was even nerfed.

[@gxsilenthunter1]

Gonna drop 3 omega accounts, tired of all the needs year in year out

[@sweetlane1813]

I don't think C4 can match C5. C4 gives you around 80M while C5 gives you 200+M isk without drifter. C4 would be more populated than now, but still C5 is much better (although now you need to run twice as much sites as before). C4 is actually worse than c3's FF stronghold. All spawns are wildly far away, you either use MJD extensively or use something like Scorch on Paladin which has only a sliver of damage compared to a blaster Kronos. Compared to that, FF has spawns at ~30-40 km which is easily farmable in a Vargur.

[@waddenderas7774]

Yeah, I only run with Golems where range isn't an issue, but I do agree that if it's all being run properly, I've probably exagerrated the balance a little :) But I was cross, so...

[@CCP_Xyed]

Just wait...

[@samuelswat1]

the rampant multibox destroys the game unfortunately, players with 10, 12 or 15 simultaneous accounts

[@Spushed]

Changes to null sec is ASS. Everyone in our alliance hate the changes and the new ships are MEH at best.

[@waddenderas7774]

Now that we've had a couple of weeks, are people still feeling the same?

[@Spushed]

@@waddenderas7774 I stopped payment on my 5 omega accounts, that tell you anything

[@jennybender2643]

Has anyone seen a Ghost site in the past few weeks in J-space?

[@waddenderas7774]

Not for a little while... have you found one yet?

[@wormholeinteractions2033]

Found three in the last month, and got two high grade omega ascension bpcs.

[@waddenderas7774]

@@wormholeinteractions2033 Well someone is doing ok for themselves! :D Good news though, thanks pal

[@JoannaHammond]

My concern is that the move of ores to null will kill HS miners.

[@user-rl4tu8yd6e]

It surely will - I agree. Unless they learn processing and find a market for industrial goods which is yet another tough haul.

[@waddenderas7774]

Yeah, that's very much my expectation. We'll just have to see how NS manages with the power constraints

[@user-vv4lu9jb1j]

No changes to my life in EvE... Except, I dunno if I'm going crazy... My PI in highsec has been very very plentiful since the patch. Maybe it's just dumb luck. 4 times the yield on a Plasma planet, very lucky.

[@paladinrpg]

Hmm, have any of the planets had their resource sliders adjusted?

[@waddenderas7774]

If that's a real change, that's pretty cool :D Is it still looking like that?

[@Jan4043]

sad but true, wh space is a forgotten chamber by ccp :(

[@waddenderas7774]

Fingers crossed that changes

[@TheAdam2877]

Now we see why they have had so many plex and game time sales lately. This update is ridiculous to be honest. I dont think they really thought it all out and the consequences will be lower actual players and more bots or multiple character accounts. I dont see how this actually benefitted null sec in the least bit. Made it harder for alliances to get to fights. The sov upgrades have made it so that you literally have to choose between having pve upgrades or military upgrades which will make singling out which systems people are going to be ratting in versus before you could go to any system and rat or mine your indexes up without having to pay for a limited amount of upgrades and options. If they are going to make it harder to have ansiblex jump bridges at least make it easier to respond with less or no fatigue.

[@sebastienroux1669]

That does counter people multiboxing 5+ marauders at low risk. That does force farm holes to use dreads and to become preys : roll your c4-c5 connexion with a dread killer fleet ;) The trick to spaw/mjd the cap away/despawn avengers for sure should be removed. Besides the sites are still valuable even without the drifter for groups living in low class WH. It even shields them from this sneaky astero that suddenly aggresses the structure to mess up your fleet. I can remember i "killed " a 3b rattlesnake once with my cheetah this way. Not possible anymore. Thanks for your insights on this patch, man!

[@waddenderas7774]

Thanks for your views! You are right about the opportunity to rage roll looking for dreads to kill! I'm not convinced the isk/hr in C5 without drifter is any better than C3/C4 sites. I can run 3 C4 sites in the time it takes to complete a C5 so it's pretty equivalent. I'm going to flip your comment about sneaky asteros and say this is another mechanic that is removed! No longer can you get marauder kills by trolling them in cloaked frigates!

[@TheEasilyconfused]

@@waddenderas7774 it was easy to avoid, just don't shoot the dta trigger

[@wormholeinteractions2033]

Back to slippery pete T3C rollers...

[@waddenderas7774]

I might need a fit...

[@Cathrope1]

And, I still get ganked in WH Space. Not much of a change in my book

[@jennybender2643]

As it should be. We do our best, sorry for missing you the other times.

[@waddenderas7774]

At least that hasn't changed yet :D

[@jim01q]

Not an expert but I think I have seen the yaghts (sp?) being used by Farmholers when there is no eviction attempt in place, just a bit of a camp

[@waddenderas7774]

That could very well be true!

[@armandogutierrez5301]

🎉

[@MioMeowiiii]

idk. compare evo to albion. albion has 3-4 very big patches every year. eve has kinda nothing and costs freakin 20 bucks (60 in reality for alts cause you need them) and they do less then sbi does in a 15$ game with no need of alts. was checking if i dip into eve again but i play wormholes.... so fuck it, i stay out of this XD

[@Mrree250]

The commies have wormhole tech?!

[@Cathrope1]

LOL

[@marakuyovimalesh3793]

Someday I'll move into J-space full time, then I'll be able to understand all of you scary WH people :P

[@Oridian22]

Personally i think the WH isk faucets should be completely nerfed into the ground unless they change Wormholers ability to bear in complete safety, I see wormholers on reddit complaining all the time about this change and they use terms like "nullbears getting their way!" when in reality, the real bears are wormholers... you could, and still can, crit all the holes in a wormhole and completely negate the player risk when doing some of the highest paying PVE in the game. No hot drops to worry about, or bomber fleets, or roaming gangs, no blue spy about to awox you with a hicter hotdrop...no need to worry if pressing that siege button will be the end of you. Null has plenty of ways to defend against such things, but none of them are 100% going to work, capital umbrella's still see their rescue target die before or after they arrive...and those without umbrella's... well they are just a easy kill and thats the end of it. For years, wormholers hunted nullplayers while they were bearing, slaughtering countless rorquals and capitals farming...until null players can do the same to wormholers, i see no problems with CCP shitting on them.

[@jfitzmlt]

Time for this solo WH'er to move out I guess.

[@Cathrope1]

:(

[@jamesbrown5262]

Im solo now also, so many people have left or died IRL its just me.

[@waddenderas7774]

I'm sad, but not surprised :( What's next?

[@gamingmatrix7644]

Null sec upgrades are needed. since every CCP update has ruined Null Sec Isk making. They ruined combat sites with this update. Now instead of DeDs u can sell trashy new escalations hog up the chance and no one wants to buy those. also Ore iin null Sec is like 1 Cycle........So no one miines it even wiith new update.

[@waddenderas7774]

Completely agree that the Nullsec update was required! But you're saying early signs are that it's still not offering much value?

[@wingandaprayer883]

@@waddenderas7774 It is really all downsides. Ansiplex's will be far far fewer. This will ultimately mean LESS content, and not more. No one wants to jump 20j to chase gangs out of ESS's or meet for fights.

[@berniehhs]

It's very much being seen as a hidden nerf to a lot of nullsec. The upgrade requirements aren't as bad as people initially though. You don't need pve upgrades 1, 2 and 3. You can only fit one. For example, a current pve upgrades system can have like 30-40 anoms. Minor PVE 3 gives ~16 sites, but they Regen faster. Another fact, people will have to choose what upgrade they can fit. Half the systems can't online one mining upgrade. Let alone trying to fit a PVE upgrade and a gate or cyno block. Overall, it's going to be a projection and PVE nerf. They won't be able to have it all. But it shouldn't be as bad as blackout was.

[@gamingmatrix7644]

@@waddenderas7774 yea because the new "Escalations" where added to blood havens which used to be good to farm to get 10/10 DEDs which sold for 150m if can't run it yourself. So now getting these new escalations in iits place. No one wants to buy them. since only 3 blood dreadnaughts and no gate so need supers which no one is gonna bring out to open space for 180m in bountys.

[@jk7878]

The new update has fucked nullsec