Every Connection and Reference Between The Messenger and Sea of Stars

[@KirbyKing821]

I will make another video when the DLC for Sea of Stars comes out if there are any more connections and references. I will also put the things I missed in that video. I will also make a video whenever Game 3 from Sabotage comes out if there are any connections and references in that too.

[@sagiott]

Wait wait wait there will be a dlc?

[@KirbyKing821]

@@sagiott Yes. The DLC is called Throes of the Watchmaker.

[@ArcaneEther]

Having 100%'d both of these games, I really hope Sabotage returns to this world for a third time.

[@edendemarlo]

The genius of the story that the timeline is fractured until the alchemist puts it right leaves room for so many games/storys

[@JohnnyFromVirginia]

Me too! I honestly, I want a sequel to each of these games specifically but I also want a third game from a different genre given the love and care these two games got. I just haven’t decided what genre I want to see them tackle next lol

[@kevinm5940]

It's been confirmed that there will be five games in this series, featuring different genres.

[@JohnnyFromVirginia]

@@kevinm5940 so we got a time/bit traveling platformer and a day/night fluctuating RPG. What will the other 3 games be?

[@kevinm5940]

@@JohnnyFromVirginia nothing's been confirmed yet, but they named a few genres they were considering for future games, those being an Action RPG, a Point And Click puzzle game, a Beat-Em-Up, and (surprisingly) a City Builder. They've also mentioned that the third game will involve the seasons as a theme, like how Sea Of Stars had the sun and moon.

[@_qwerty_3545]

Man seeing all these references must of been so fun to experience while playing Sea of Stars. Personally I had never heard of The Messenger so I played Sea of Stars first but it must be such a treat to find all these connections

[@Rayan01012]

I gasp when I got to Glacial Peaks for the first time😂

[@ruzma3927]

Small narrative parallel I also noticed; Knowing that the Acolytes merged into the Demon King, I like to think the latter reenacted on Phantom the 'trapping a powerful dude into servitude, using a memento of his dead lover' strategy that Acolyte Two used on Duke Aventry.

[@davidclark765]

Thank you for putting this together! I recently finished Sea of Stars and knew it was connected to The Messenger, but not exactly how. It's amazingly hard to find an actual complete list. Much obliged, friend.

[@bellangerdorian8286]

A small detail I noticed : the "chapter's names" (the text you see on your save file) also have references. For example, saving in Autumn hills will have the message "Hills of intent", which is the name of the Autumn Hills theme in The Messenger (I don't remember if it's present or future tho)

[@a4th0r34]

Future one, the past theme is "Hills of Destiny"

[@Stephanie-69]

The "Abomination Beyond Words" from Corrupted Future has actually been confirmed to be a World Eater! Also John Gaiden, on top of being a Ninja Gaiden reference is Iron Hood's canonical name, which is hilarious

[@Xenylard]

12:25 nope, that's definitely a world eater as seen in the sea of stars credits.

[@benji-menji]

That was what I was thinking, but I would have thought the world eater would move on to the main planet if they were a world eater. Unless the world eater is somehow still consuming Serai's world, then it might be a dweller. I personally will take either till it's more conclusive.

[@knightinugami1293]

I never remember info about the past messanger, so when the big reveal of the artificer name, it didnt hit me until i look back on the past messanger. Same as Brugaves became the demon, "the fastest" hint didnt hit me. Out of all of the messanger connection, fleshmancer acolytes merge with the Dweller 22:03 was the jaw droping moment for me. The detail given to player to realize the connection feel so good.

[@heagridswager]

The entiere existance of sea of stars is a refference to sunken shrine from the messenger

[@Tazawa__]

Also something cool I haven't seen mentioned much is that every shop music in Sea Of Stars share the first 6 notes of "The Arcane Shoppe"

[@BARALover96]

Started playing the messenger after 100% sea of stars and I quickly picked up on the connections lol

[@lentoglacier1457]

18:42 The scene where Romaya is using magic on that staff that the headmaster used to wield, isn't it a keepsake of her Sister, Moyara? I interpreted that scene as her trying to resurrect her sister, but she apparently refused her sister's offer. The relation between Romaya and Ruxxtin is still be plausible lol

[@Murasane]

im pretty sure they stated that moryana was a solar warrior though not a lunar mage so i dont think its her staff unless i misremembered

[@lentoglacier1457]

@@Murasane She was described as a solstice warrior (rather then a solar one) as well as the former headmistress of Zenith Academy. It's no solid proof, but the staff could be a keepsake that has been brought back by Moraine. I believe so, because in the conversation between Him, Brugaves and Erlina early on Moyara is briefly mentioned and Moraine's reaction is particularly harsh. I have no proof whatsoever, but it explains the reason behind Romaya's actions pretty well.

[@Rawrmuffin0]

@@lentoglacier1457also all three sisters are solstice children right? Since they’re triplets or did I make that up? Lol

[@alexicon2006]

​@@Rawrmuffin0Yes. They are indeed Solstice Triplets. The only ones to ever exist of course since its obviously very rare.

[@TheGreatVoicemancer]

I find it so interesting that the tune of leveling up and the music boxes song are the same.

[@bonaelzee]

These are gems. The last time I seen a connection this good between games that I’ve played was with Treasures Gunstar Heroes, Guardian Heroes & Alien Soldier

[@jamesbrown-fb1gk]

Nice video. When you first travel to serais world there is a short moment when the graphics change,that was def.a connection to the messenger

[@OliyTC]

Great compilation! Definitely the most comprehensive/correct one I've seen so far. I did notice a few things nobody else has seemed to comment yet that might be worth adding: - A lot more songs use the Sunken Shrine/Hero's Gift musical motifs. The Crypt and Solstice Shrines come to mind as a few - Cloud Kingdom also is a song with the Cloud Ruins motifs running through it - The Black Market in Mirth's theme is a slowed down version of the Shopkeeper's theme - In some of the chains of clips you could have used some Picnic Panic footage. The cabinet and doing the thing both show up there - There could also be a connection with the island from Picnic Panic also being Basalt Island in Sea of Stars considering they have the same layout (but don't share any musical themes so it's not airtight) - This is more theorizing than anything but the robes on Reshan and Apopherul are very close to the Blue Robes' - One whole section I think could be expanded upon is just matching areas. The end screen of Sea of Stars being the final spot in Sunken Shrine, Autumn Hills having the one underwater section and the cliff that match between the games, etc. - Might just be more of a coincidence but only areas that appear in Sea of Stars have motifs in The Messenger's credits song - 16:52 could also end with some of Teaks' lines about the oncoming flood, one in a story and one in the post credits scenes (you included it earlier in the video it just kind of misses the connection point imo) - The cave on Mesa Island that leads you up to Autumn Hills could arguably be the Dark Cave area from The Messenger And then there's various dev statements that make sense now after Sea of Stars has come out that were originally about The Messenger (The Shopkeeper has a particularly interesting one on the Wiki). Some of these are more speculative than others but regardless I hope you enjoy the thoughts! I'll come back to edit this comment if I think of more

[@LeMortalPanda]

The messenger's soundtrack is so good

[@ithanmendes]

A small correction: the music of the musical notes/music box is not the same as the level up music, the level up music is actually and only the music of Sunken Shrine area

[@KirbyKing821]

I know. The sounds the music notes make are the same sounds for the Level up music. Later in the video, I showed that the level up music and Garl's theme cam be heard in the Sunken Shrine music.

[@ithanmendes]

@@KirbyKing821 No man, what I mean is that there is no song in Sea of Stars that matches the song in the notes/music box, The sounds of the musical notes are not the same as the level up theme, the only thing the two songs have in common is that they both have the same instrument as their base: a music box

[@ithanmendes]

And having the same instrument as a base doesn't necessarily mean it's a reference, as there are also other songs in Sea of Stars that use the same instrument and are not a reference.

[@D.Enniss]

Thanks a lot for this video! Incredible how many references they made! It's so neat to have a world that sprawls multiple games :D

[@Arcangel23XX]

At 12:06, you mention thinking that is Serai's world. I actually don't think it is, I think that world is the result of a world consumed by a World Eater, as you stop the one encroaching on Serai's world at the end of the game (and that thing you say may be a Dweller looks an awful lot like the World Eater we kill at the end of SoS). That thing is also consuming the entire screen, implying "world eating" while chasing you. HOWEVER, there is an argument of Serai manufacturing the music note, because I absolutely believe that could've happened. Hard to say, but until we have more details on if Aephorul never cheats and doesn't come back to a world he's lost in, I don't see a World Eater claiming Serai's world. They never subtly hint at another Dweller being hidden away somewhere in the world either. Just some thoughts on why it could or could not be hers. Last Edit I'll make, but you did miss one. Where the first shop of Messanger is there's an NPC in SoS in an area that is designed to be the same location saying something like "I'm sure my idea to have a shop here will really take off in the future," something to that effect.

[@Arcangel23XX]

Adding this as an addendum since I didn't want to make another edit on the post. The Demon King is the Dweller of Strife, which means he's a Dweller. The "future" we visit consumed by the World Eater in Messanger is likely the Dweller of Strife fully forming into said World Eater, and it is also locked away as the "future we are trying to prevent," meaning that they're trying to kill the Demon King before he succeeds as what he was designed to do to "win" in that world for Aephorul.

[@AzureMoebius22]

​@@Arcangel23XXAlternatively, the World Eater in the Corrupted Future could also be the Phantom. If the Eater was the Demon King, then killing him should have erased the Corrupted Future. I think the curse of the mask was steadily turning the Phantom into a Dweller, feeding off his sorrow. If I'm remembering correctly, Duke Aventry's lover became the Dweller of Woe, maybe that's the same thing being done to the Phantom.

[@Arcangel23XX]

@@AzureMoebius22 Yeah, that's fair, that also definitely could've happened. Either way, seems like the World Eater is local and you aren't crossing the Sea of Stars to enter that "unwanted future." And actually yeah, now that you say that, they do mention it is "the future they're trying to prevent," which implies that rescuing Phantom is paramount to that success. So yeah, he's probably the thing that becomes a new Dweller. Good catch. :)

[@AzureMoebius22]

@@Arcangel23XX Part of me thinks that might have been a failsafe for if the Demon King was killed. If the king couldn't become a Dweller, another would in his absence. Also the seed that Bugraves (I can't be assed to remember his demon name) gived to the cyclops brothers at the end of Picnic Panic is concerning.

[@Arcangel23XX]

@@AzureMoebius22 Given that Messanger is a lot more lighthearted in tone outside dealings with the Demon King and Phantom, I think the "seed" might be fine...maybe. We'll see with what Sabotage Studios does next.

[@Murasane]

could the rose symbol on the music box be a reference to the vampire rose that the acolytes had/used?

[@KirbyKing821]

I think that's exactly what that is. The Demon King trapped Phantom in the music box and the Demon King is the 4 Acolytes combines with the Dweller so the Vampire Rose being on the Music Box makes perfect sense.

[@tersecwalsingham5778]

Cloud ruins future is SUCH a bop. Good video...

[@zaperated3398]

I didnt even make thag connection with brugaves and the speed demon. Thats wild but it makes complete sense

[@DrSoda.]

👏This must have taken so much effort and time researching. God bless. Jesus loves you!

[@brreitz]

Very nice! I've been replaying The Messenger after beating Sea of Stars to find connections, and you picked up on a few I didn't even notice. One thing I thought I might add: The masks that the acolytes wear are similar to the Cursed Mask that the Demon King forces onto Phantom - and the Music Box is full of creeping roses. Makes me wonder if the curse of the Demon King is connected to the curse of the Vampire Rose?

[@UnkownUnkown01]

well, the acolytes did use it to stay alive all that time, they mentioned it once, and the acolytes became the demon king

[@Gengar99]

Finished the Messenger yesterday after playing SoS... What a ride!!

[@chrisman2100]

AwI some video! Thanks for taking the time to out this together!

[@martyhoward6727]

This was great. Would have missed some of these!

[@eranbenzeev627]

for me the earliest connection I heard was glacial peak theme playing in sea of stars

[@joshuahicks3108]

You had a good one right in from if you and didn't realize it. at timestamp 4:39 you're actually standing in front of Yomara's hut. You can even see the husk of a witch near the tree holding a pear. The is presumably the same pear tree that Garl gets to eat a pear from when they meet Yomara.

[@KirbyKing821]

That specific part of the video was just for music and location. I showed that that is the same house and tree from Sea of Stars later in the video.

[@Lukingordex]

12:04 this is not Serai's world, but rather the main world in a similar state to Serai's world in a corrupted future.

[@siuroy2694]

this made me smile, thank you

[@linerider195]

About ruxxtin and romaya, I interpreted that scene as Romaya trying to bring back her sister and previous headmistress of the academy, Moyara. Would be weird that were Ruxxtin since Ruxxtin seems to be a bad guy? And Moyara is the good one amongst the three sisters

[@pixelreaper7449]

Next game title - Messengers Sea of time (Idk)

[@katiehuff3298]

I have so many questions: what happened to Wentworth? How did Zale and Valere die? Did the messenger cross the sea of stars but we didn't know it? (Asking myself) 😅

[@KirbyKing821]

@katiehuff3298 Wentworth probably just flew around the world. Zale and Valere's power slowly faded over time, and they crystallized their energy so they could gift the music note to the Messenger, who was the final hope of his world. The Messenger's world was no longer connected to the Sea of Stars.

[@katiehuff3298]

Thank you for this, it really helped. 😊 ​@@KirbyKing821

[@jugo2112]

so Mesa island was just a giant reference to The Messenger?

[@KirbyKing821]

Mesa Island is the same island in the Messenger.

[@jugo2112]

@@KirbyKing821 NO WAY

[@Zalachai]

​@@jugo2112Sea of Stars is the prequel.

[@jugo2112]

@@Zalachai OH FR????

[@Xenylard]

25:48 but sea of stars is before the messenger so how would ruxxtin have already passed his amulet, if he wasn't even alive then?

[@KirbyKing821]

I was just showing that Ruxxtin mentions relics. I wasn't trying to say that it is the same relic in Sea of Stars.

[@Xenylard]

@@KirbyKing821 true

[@Vecibwfhfih6fg72fhi3hfij3gonei]

This is your most wiewed video, congrats.

[@sergiomarin7632]

so is the messenger the future on this timeline, while sea of stars is the past ?

[@KirbyKing821]

Yes. Sea of Stars is a prequel to The Messenger. The world floods over time and that's why in The Messenger it says the world is flooded. Teaks talks about how the world was going to flood at the end of Sea of Stars. That's also the reason why it is called the Sunken Shrine in The Messenger. It is the same shrine at the end of Sea of Stars but it sunk because of the flood.

[@sergiomarin7632]

@@KirbyKing821 thanks for the clarification, what happened to zale and valere though ? They were so op to just simply disappear or die , it's a bit odd.

[@KirbyKing821]

@sergiomarin7632 They became Guardian Gods because they needed to defeat the World Eaters and protect the universes. They visited Garl on their birthday every year so their human form could come back if they wanted it to. They are in the Messenger as their God Form in the Sunken Shrine.

[@sergiomarin7632]

@@KirbyKing821 ohhh so the part where the messenger found the ruins and he's being told about how humanity stop praying for them, that's them?

[@KirbyKing821]

@sergiomarin7632 Yes that's them. The characters Ninja speaks to in the Sunken Shrine are Solen and Luana/Zale and Valere.

[@Jorge_Rego]

Thx for all the work behind this video. I just finished Sea of Stars and the end left me with tons of questions, so I started searching for answers, just to get disappointed about the fact that half of the missing informations it's just because I haven't played another game. I love games that have some easter egg or reference to other games, but I don't like that, to understand the story of the game I'm playing, I have to know another game that has nothing to do with it. I get it, it's technically a precuel, but come on, if you put both of them next to each other they have nothing in common. Not a similar gameplay, not a similar tittle... And the questions begin: What happend to the Acolytes, the main villians of half of the game? Sorry, we have to be the Demon King of another game. What happend with Bugraves, my mentor? No redemtion arc, just goes away to be a boss from another game. Will it have any impact in the story that Garll eats a pear from a witch? Nope, just 10 minutes of dialogue to make a reference. What is Teaks building at the post credits scene, some DLC material? Hahaha that's a good one, but nope, just a monument form another game... What a pitty, the more I know about "references", the more I see the flaws in the main story.

[@Vecibwfhfih6fg72fhi3hfij3gonei]

18:45 I don't think Romaya and Ruxxtin are related, Romaya has 2 sisters

[@KirbyKing821]

Ruxxtin could be a descendant from Romaya. They are both necromancers, use magic, and have a few more similarities. Romaya could be Ruxxtin's ancestor.

[@leonardoavilarivera712]

​@@KirbyKing821I think Ruxxtin is the boat rider

[@IBigPrivateDickChinchillaI]

​@@leonardoavilarivera712THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT TOO!

[@benji-menji]

@@KirbyKing821 Maybe not related in blood, but he is related in that he has Romaya's staff. I even think that the staff could be Romaya herself if she injected her mind into it but I'm not sure on that.

[@Stephanie-69]

​@@benji-menji There are many things pointing to Romaya being the Staff. It's not been confirmed yet, but we know for a fact that the Staff used to be a necromancer and "had a name", among other things

[@D.Enniss]

Something tells me Re'shan is the Shoopkeeper, or at least a version of him?

[@KirbyKing821]

The Shopkeeper was actually confirmed to be female so I think that maybe Teaks is the Shopkeeper since both The Shopkeeper and Teaks know a lot about everything and both have tons of stories to share. The Shopkeeper is in Sea of Stars at the same time though so that might just be a cool Easter Egg or they aren't the same character. In The Messenger it says that all of the Blue Robes were past Messengers.

[@alexicon2006]

​@@KirbyKing821I dont think they are the same character and the biggest reason for that in my opinion are their personalities. The shopkeeper has a very distinct personality just like Teaks, and they both match well. Secondly, we saw elder teaks in the flashback and the flood hadnt even begun to start yet. So we can safely assume that Teaks would be long dead before any blue robe would step up. Lastly Teaks cant play that huge of a role in the future of tbat world in the messenger I believe.

[@magplay15]

so which prequel or sequel ?

[@KirbyKing821]

Sea of Stars is a prequel to The Messenger. I love both games. They are my two favorite Indie games and some of my favorite games of all time.

[@TheTrailburner]

The connection with the Dweller of Strife as the final form of the Demon King ends up creating a plot hole. Since in the Messenger it's established that Dwellers are only at their weakest state during a solar eclipse. But in The Messenger, the Dweller of Strife gets disintegrated by sunlight. It's cool to have connections between the two games, but they have to make sense.

[@kotlolish]

It might be due to the 4 being infused by the Vampire Rose. (Vampires are weak to Sunlight) They are in constant pain.... So it might be in the eyeball form..the dweller is in such a weakened state that sunlight alone can kill it. But mostly... it's revealed that the demon king can be killed over and over and the curse revives them. So the demon king might not be at full power at all to begin with. As you need a dweller core to revive a dweller. So it might be the Dweller version of the king has already been slain long ago, but still put down the curse so it could come back in an alas weakened state.

[@CriticalQuit]

I know in Sea of Stars the implication is that they managed to at least weaken it enough it was in a fragile state. It's also possible that the time magic that Messengers are attuned to is strong enough to weaken a dweller, since it's the magic used by Resh'an himself.

[@DefinitivNichtSascha]

I think it's just that it's not a Dweller anymore. Fusing with the acolytes has transformed them all into an entirely new being with different properties, strengths, and weaknesses.

[@samuelhadjaissa5201]

Actually that wasn't the "Real" Demon king. That was a copy.

[@RommekePommeke]

But it is fused with four humans(?), so it might've caused change in it's weaknesses that way. Also Dwellers are weak to the Vial of Time. The Messenger doesn't have the Vial but he does have some form of time powers.

[@iammac5813]

After messenger which was awesome Sea of star was such a let down in terms of story and combat variety. II hope third game they put more effort in making a good story

[@madzec]

Yea I agree I do like rpgs and all but Sea of Stars did not lay nowhere near like the Messenger..

[@alkristopher]

Dang it, I can't believe how much Sea of Stars ripped off The Messenger. The devs should really do something about that.

[@KirbyKing821]

Sea of Stars is a prequel to The Messenger so it makes sense to have a lot of connections and references. The Messenger didn't explain everything or show how things came to be for Mesa Island so Sea of Stars explained and showed some things from The Messenger. I like how the games are so connected and have that many references.

[@alkristopher]

​@@KirbyKing821 (looks up the definition of "irony") Ah! There it is! Now you know.