Every Hero's "Worst" Card: Mad Titan's Shadow Wave (Valkyrie, Vision, etc) with

[@jerpanic1]

Great collaboration. Both hosts have great voices and the dialogue is natural. Please know this is a compliment when I say you both create content that is fun to listen to and watch. Not easy at all and you both make it seem so. Thanks for giving something to enjoy outside of the 9-5 life

[@VillainTheory]

Thank you for the very kind words!

[@prufrock1977]

Poor War Machine. Only character to show up twice on this list!

[@VillainTheory]

Ahaha, that's pretty funny. Poor War Machine...

[@VaultBoy13]

I've mostly given up on playing Valkyrie. Her kit just regularly gets in her own way. But, I don't think she'd require much errata to be better. On her identify card, move "Action: Detach Death-Glow..." to her Hero side. Then give her something useful on her alter-ego side. This means we can now put Death-Glow on the villain without it getting stuck there (until going to alter-ego). Update the spear to include, "Hero Action: Exhaust Valkyrie's Spear to reduce the cost of Death Perception by 1." The worst card becomes more useful by allowing it to generate a resource (in a very specific instance). And, the villain is a viable target Death-Glow which increases the value of Shieldmaiden. I don't think that being able to reassign Death-Glow for free once per round (after an upgrade) would be too overpowered. Once she's setup, she'd likely get one card draw per round by defeating a minion. And, that one card would offset the cost to put Death-Glow out a second time.

[@theshbee]

Appreciating this series and the other content both of you are putting out for us. Thanks!

[@VillainTheory]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@teraxe]

FYI, Shieldmaiden was errata'd to have defense trait

[@boardgametime3727]

Grabbing my popcorn! Perfect way to start my Friday - thanks for continuing the series! ❤️

[@VillainTheory]

Have fun! And thank you!

[@VaultBoy13]

I really like Wide Stance, but I almost only play at 2-player. I think it's A-tier since it's basically setting 2 boosts and 1 encounter card. I can see it being S-tier for solo, but it's probably C-tier at 3-4 player.

[@johnwaynemcclung8056]

I agree with you regarding solo play. I play almost only solo, and Wide Stance is pretty much an auto play every single time I get it.

[@VillainTheory]

I really like Wide Stance too. I also really like all her Techniques, and all her other cards... I don't know. I was just thinking about our choice for her before seeing this comment - I'm not happy with it but I also don't think I put any other cards in over it...

[@cbav2674]

Once you've caught up and done this with every hero in the game, it could be fun for you to share the link to this tierlist with your community so we can rank them ourselves. Then we could see an average of what people think of these cards across the community

[@WinningHandPodcast]

I love that!

[@WinningHandPodcast]

Time to create a V tier 😂 Great episode as usual, apologies for the feline intrusion!

[@VillainTheory]

It was a paw performance but it's fine. You've got away with it by a whisker

[@WinningHandPodcast]

@@VillainTheory Now you're just trying to hurt meow feelings.

[@jongahimer5338]

How many treachery cards feel like a waste for a 1 cost cancel? I’d say 90 percent of the time when I play cosmic ward I feel like I got my value out of it. Also, because I play multiplayer I would never run Heroic Intuition and Combat Training. I pick a lane either thwart or damage for efficiencies sake. The fact that cape is really only impactful when paired with other cards makes it the loser for me.

[@mattvoegtli9928]

Great showing guys! Had me rolling laughing during the Valkyrie segment. Largely agree with your picks, War Machine, Spectrum, Nebula and Valkyrie are pretty easy. Spectrums is good, but if I don't have another form flip in hand, or would die otherwise, its not getting played. Poor Valkyries would be hard to pick because both are so bad. Too bad they didn't build any easy way to remove/move Death Glow in her kit. I think one resource generator that did so would totally have changed her. I think the spear is slightly better, mostly for mean swing and fusillade! I think Vision is super fair either way. I always seem to draw that defense event in the wrong form, but it is great when it hits and Jocasta is a thing. I actually like the cape, but will easily pass on it for almost any other build out card in my hand. I would have gone Soul World for Adam Warlock. I almost always play it, and it only sees use about 1 in every 4 or 5 games, and because of deck cycling I just have this card with 8 to 12 green counters on it. While not necessarily tanky in his kit, he is quite tanky between his build rules. Cosmic Ward and Warlocks Cape both give me some value every game. I would have probably gone for the Cape between the 2, for all the reason Villian said. I don't really stat build Warlock, I've tried it and its not as fun or good as other ways to build him IMO. Villian, when are you going to relent on Big Hands? It's just not as good as the cards it bumping down! Thank you for another fun show gentlemen.

[@VillainTheory]

Big Hands is bad in a vacuum, but Ms. Marvel really appreciates it. She has a lot of high value but slow tempo options, so the damage - that can be Embiggened, is super playable... Huge fan of Soul World, I usually build to try and take advantage of it though. So maybe that's where some of the difference of opinion comes from. Poor Valkyrie...

[@MarvelChumpions]

I love the concept of this series.

[@VillainTheory]

It's really fun!

[@WinningHandPodcast]

But what about the execution...?

[@MarvelChumpions]

@@WinningHandPodcast I think the execution was great until your cat had some important insights that you failed to acknowledge.

[@VillainTheory]

Let's call it a CATastrophe

[@WinningHandPodcast]

@@VillainTheory Oh I see you're feline spicy today

[@fromundaman]

The Adam Warlock picks surprised me. I feel like the only card I don't consistently use in his kit is Soul World. Now before you grab the pitchforks, hear me out. Soul World is super strong BUT there are certain builds/team compositions where it is less necessary. For example if your deck has chump blockers or a deck that boosts his Stat line, you might not take much damage. More popular at my table, you might have a teammate playing full defense protection who protects you every turn, meaning you're not taking damage. Soul World is so, so good in situations where you need it, but it's not necessary to advance your board state or win condition; it just staves off the lose condition. If you're not approaching that lose condition, it just sits on the table doing nothing, which makes it less useful than his other cards imo.

[@VillainTheory]

I love the reasoning! But I still love Soul World. Soul World is so powerful I tend to build around it to some degree, boosting hp and not defending often outside of Shield Spell. Flipping down for a full heal is so good that it gives you more room to play other cards and ultimately do more/gain more tempo.

[@mrjediknight]

We need a series on Caleb Grace's Capes.

[@VillainTheory]

I'll do a deep dive into why do capes keep readying people as part of it

[@mrjediknight]

And why poor Warlock doesn't get Aerial

[@jonathanpickles2946]

A lot of fun as usual! I'm not convinced by the S tierness of the Adam Warlock card. That implies that all his other cards would be S tier (whatever that means in the context of worst cards) and I don't think they are, the attack for sure isn't. I had a lot of fun playing Valkyrie and she was the hero who most exceeded my expectations before Bishop came out. That's in terms of fun at least, she is rubbish, and her cards are as bad as they appeared when spoiled. I would probably say the Spear is worse as you might play it when you need your restricted slot for a better card. I suppose that you might argue that having Shield Maiden in hand would encourage you to put Death Glow on the villain where it messes you up for an age. The fact that she struggles to do her main job without help makes my think that she may be the worst designed (more likely worst developed) hero in the game. That's before getting to her not functional defending package, absent economy and dubious thwarting.

[@VillainTheory]

I actually really like his attack card. It's difficult, because I can see myself putting it in A and not S, but I wouldn't drop it over other options. He needs it for tempo in my opinion, and it can hit up to 8. So in the context of his kit I wouldn't say it's the worst. And then there's Valkyrie... The Spear I like better because you can get some benefit without forcing Deathglow somewhere. An emergency DEF. But yeah. She has some Very Not Good cards.

[@VaultBoy13]

The way I understand it, among the worst cards for each hero, the Adam Warlock card is S-tier. It's not an S-tier card when looking at all cards in the game. I don't know if this is the intent, but I think the tiers fall into something like this: S: Almost always play A: Often play B: Generally play C: Seldom play D: Almost never play

[@jonathanpickles2946]

@@VillainTheory HIs attack is very good but definitely an A type of thing in a world with Cable's attack that is. Every so often it will let you down & the milling is a cost albeit one I usually ignore. Valk is funny - Anabelle is a good card but a bad ally cos of how pushed allies are. Ah well there are enough good heroes that I can play her the two times a year I play MP.

[@VillainTheory]

@jonathanpickles2946 Oh it wouldn't be anywhere near S tier if we're looking at all cards, not just the "worst"!

[@cbav2674]

I could be wrong, but I feel like I remember Shieldmaiden being errated to have the defense trait? It doesnt change where the card goes on the list though...

[@VillainTheory]

That sounded familiar - just looked it up and you're 100% correct! Thanks!

[@WinningHandPodcast]

@@VillainTheory I think @cbav2674 might steal my spot if I'm not careful

[@urloony]

Great video as always gentlemen, I love the Team-up episodes. It would be great top see a video about what you perceive as the future of MC now that Caleb is leaving the development team.

[@VillainTheory]

Thanks! And I am actually planning to touch on the Caleb thing in my next video!

[@josephgerman2674]

Adam Warlock: Quantum Magic for Similar reasons with Boomguy's take on Cosmic Ward... Opening hand --QM and trash. Hard Mulligan --QM and trash. Next round Summoning Spell discards 5 upgrades. Quantum Magic NEEDS to be an upgrade, not an event. Play it now, use it later...

[@VillainTheory]

Totally fair. I don't usually have that many bad hands and so on with him but certainly events are prone to turn up at the wrong time

[@GetUpandGame]

Count me in as a nebula and a wide stance supporter. As a solo player it’s probably my favorite card of hers. It’s really good on its own but The thing I really appreciate about it is it allows flipping in aspects other than Justice.

[@ThisDoopl]

Another entertaining video! Here are the changes I'd make to the list: Venom Blast, B->A - Good efficiency, works with SW's hero ability, has the Superpower trait. Reload, A->B - Requires setup but even then it's very situational. Accelerated Reflex, C->B - Effectively gain 1 HP every turn on a 9 HP hero? WOW! Yes please! Webbed Up, B->C - Too expensive for a card which only deals with future problems. Works against SM's hero ability. Wrist Gauntlets, C->B - Here's why Stalwart and Steady were invented, because a cheap, consistent source of stun and confuse is stupidly good. Vision's Cape, B->C - Doesn't meet expectations set by other capes, rarely has any immediate effect, , not much synergy, disappoints against stun. A feel-bad card. Looking forward to the next one 😄

[@VillainTheory]

Great stuff! One day I will convince Boomguy to let me move Webbed-Up down 😜

[@dontberash]

My favorite ongoing series

[@thetiniestamy]

Losing it over the cat 🤣 Great video as always!

[@VillainTheory]

I thought it was Hellcat at first

[@jackoconnell906]

Personally, my favorite part of Cosmic Ward is the fact that it triggers in Warlock’s alter-ego. I like to use it as an extra form of protection on turns I choose to flip down, as most other forms of treachery cancelation rely on you being in hero form.

[@VillainTheory]

Great shout, great use for it

[@josephgerman2674]

While I agree with Boomguy about Valkyrie's Spear (I've played it, but never used it), I can't figure out why people hate Val. I agree with D20: Valkyrie might be overpowered. Last game, she drew 14 cards in the second round --that's better than Dr Strange... Hall of Heroes is a no-brainer in her deck --she can almost trigger it every round. Val has BIG turns. If you're playing her, you get to play a lot. Throw a few overkill cards in there, and she's just hitting everything. Obviously, she gets most of her benefits from minion-heavy decks, but for all her drawing out minions, she's 5x less risk than Star Lord. She doesn't stress the team. She can vector heavy minions away from weaker heroes (and defend with Shieldmaiden). She can handle it. She's fun!

[@GetUpandGame]

I’m glad you guys were appropriately hard on shield maiden. I think it’s probably the worst hero card in the game, and really makes me wonder if Valkyrie was play tested much at all. It’s as you say you, don’t want to put DG on the villain, so when are you ever going to use this card. They gave her three cards for a defense package she has no interest in using. I don’t know how that wouldn’t have been picked up on immediately.

[@Guyito775]

For war machine I say full auto because it doesn’t have piercing! Full auto you can just choose to not play but you need full auto to win.

[@Guyito775]

Nebula, idk I think wide stance but also in protection and perfect defense it’s good but doesn’t stay in play.

[@Guyito775]

Pulsar shield is for sure the worst. Even in protection I would play a protection defensive card.

[@Guyito775]

I love cosmic ward! Mainly because I rarely forget. I think the worst is karmic blast. No piercing and usually less than 6 damage

[@VillainTheory]

Pulsar Shield was definitely the easiest pick, the rest of her cards are just so good

[@j_atkinson]

Great podcast as always. VT is totally wrong about Cosmic Ward... it is the worst in his deck removing player agency around which treachery to stop. Also it's going to be 5 capes when Magneto arrives! :)

[@VillainTheory]

On the other hand, you can choose whether to play Cosmic Ward at any point and it will sit there until a treachery comes up and be useful that way. Contrast with an event or something you can't play unless the right type of encounter card comes up at the right time. Which one truly has less agency...? I don't know, but thanks 😁

[@j_atkinson]

@@VillainTheory They seem equivalent to me personally, to the point that I don't even want to play it. The point of cancelling a teachery is getting to choose which treachery you can cancel, Cosmic Ward doesn't let you do that since you're going in blind not knowing what's coming up. Spycraft and Stepford Cuckoos are superior in my opinion even with drawing another card after it. Usually you can wait for the big bad treachery to show up and hit it with those cards at the time the card shows up. Anyway... keep the content coming. Love your stuff!

[@danthecrow1701]

Come Get Me Bub does make a few of these cards look a bit better (cough….cough….) #TeamShieldToss #Justice4ShieldToss 😂 looking forward to the epic/feature length compilation video when all is said and done.

[@VillainTheory]

Shield Toss, it was too young... We barely knew it...

[@TheMaskedHero]

Despite shieldmaiden being a little bit better than you two are giving a credit for, as it's already been noted that it received errata. I think it still edges out Visit Valhalla, which is the first card that I think of as her worst card.

[@VillainTheory]

Unfortunately I don't think the defense trait does much for Shieldmaiden. It helps with Nerves, Jocasta and Defensive Energy - but I don't think those help form good decks for her. ...But it's better than not having the trait. Visit Valhalla is a good shout. Such a strange card for her to have! I wonder if she had something more alter-ego specific at one point in her design? Or they just wanted to enforce a slight theme in the wave of searching for cards? (Quantum Magic, Density Control)

[@misterpreposterous5771]

Why make an F tier for Valkyrie, when you could make a D20 tier just for her? ;)

[@Champion_Leon]

As a War-machine enthusiast who play too many of it, you guys are putting Scorched Earth too high. Sure if you get the best scenario and hit 3+ enemies it’s fair but you can pay 2 for 8 with overkill. It’s like shieldmaiden, if you line it up perfectly you can get value but it’s too much.

[@nickhamilton2649]

I think talking about the worst card in each hero kid is a cool idea but I get so tired of disagreeing with pretty much everything opening hand says. You should try this idea with somebody else. I don't think he's going to be the partner to push your channel or this game to the next level. His takes are just too terrible. it's like he barely even plays this

[@VillainTheory]

I appreciate the honesty. This idea actually comes from Boomguy from the Winning Hand, and we didn't start it with the intention to push my channel anywhere. He has a different style to me in Marvel Champions, and presumably different to you too by the sound of it, but a lot of comments take his opinion over mine. That alone speaks to the validity of having him on the show/channel beyond him being my friend I enjoy doing this with.

[@dontberash]

Hey Villain and Boomguy, I have two sets (5 cards, totaling 10) of the original core box set hero promo cards that I would like you to be able to give away on your channel. I believe they’re from 2019? They’re hard to come by. Just enjoy the show and wanna support. Not sure if you have a business email but feel free to message me here and I’ll send you picture proof and we can figure out where to send the cards, if that’s exciting to you.

[@VillainTheory]

They are so hard to come by I've only managed to get the Iron Man one! That's insane. Incredibly generous, thank you. If you're absolutely sure, hit me up at [e-mail] - I made this for the podcast but basically do all viewer communication through it now.