Every Hero's "Worst" Card: Mad Titan's Shadow Wave (Valkyrie, Vision, etc) with

[@jerpanic1]

Great collaboration. Both hosts have great voices and the dialogue is natural. Please know this is a compliment when I say you both create content that is fun to listen to and watch. Not easy at all and you both make it seem so. Thanks for giving something to enjoy outside of the 9-5 life

[@VillainTheory]

Thank you for the very kind words!

[@teraxe]

FYI, Shieldmaiden was errata'd to have defense trait

[@cbav2674]

I could be wrong, but I feel like I remember Shieldmaiden being errated to have the defense trait? It doesnt change where the card goes on the list though...

[@VillainTheory]

That sounded familiar - just looked it up and you're 100% correct! Thanks!

[@WinningHandPodcast]

@@VillainTheory I think @cbav2674 might steal my spot if I'm not careful

[@theshbee]

Appreciating this series and the other content both of you are putting out for us. Thanks!

[@VillainTheory]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@VaultBoy13]

I've mostly given up on playing Valkyrie. Her kit just regularly gets in her own way. But, I don't think she'd require much errata to be better. On her identify card, move "Action: Detach Death-Glow..." to her Hero side. Then give her something useful on her alter-ego side. This means we can now put Death-Glow on the villain without it getting stuck there (until going to alter-ego). Update the spear to include, "Hero Action: Exhaust Valkyrie's Spear to reduce the cost of Death Perception by 1." The worst card becomes more useful by allowing it to generate a resource (in a very specific instance). And, the villain is a viable target Death-Glow which increases the value of Shieldmaiden. I don't think that being able to reassign Death-Glow for free once per round (after an upgrade) would be too overpowered. Once she's setup, she'd likely get one card draw per round by defeating a minion. And, that one card would offset the cost to put Death-Glow out a second time.

[@BoardGameTime40]

Grabbing my popcorn! Perfect way to start my Friday - thanks for continuing the series! ❤️

[@VillainTheory]

Have fun! And thank you!

[@prufrock1977]

Poor War Machine. Only character to show up twice on this list!

[@VillainTheory]

Ahaha, that's pretty funny. Poor War Machine...

[@MarvelChumpions]

I love the concept of this series.

[@VillainTheory]

It's really fun!

[@WinningHandPodcast]

But what about the execution...?

[@MarvelChumpions]

@@WinningHandPodcast I think the execution was great until your cat had some important insights that you failed to acknowledge.

[@VillainTheory]

Let's call it a CATastrophe

[@WinningHandPodcast]

@@VillainTheory Oh I see you're feline spicy today

[@jongahimer5338]

How many treachery cards feel like a waste for a 1 cost cancel? I’d say 90 percent of the time when I play cosmic ward I feel like I got my value out of it. Also, because I play multiplayer I would never run Heroic Intuition and Combat Training. I pick a lane either thwart or damage for efficiencies sake. The fact that cape is really only impactful when paired with other cards makes it the loser for me.

[@VaultBoy13]

I really like Wide Stance, but I almost only play at 2-player. I think it's A-tier since it's basically setting 2 boosts and 1 encounter card. I can see it being S-tier for solo, but it's probably C-tier at 3-4 player.

[@johnwaynemcclung8056]

I agree with you regarding solo play. I play almost only solo, and Wide Stance is pretty much an auto play every single time I get it.

[@VillainTheory]

I really like Wide Stance too. I also really like all her Techniques, and all her other cards... I don't know. I was just thinking about our choice for her before seeing this comment - I'm not happy with it but I also don't think I put any other cards in over it...

[@mrjediknight]

We need a series on Caleb Grace's Capes.

[@VillainTheory]

I'll do a deep dive into why do capes keep readying people as part of it

[@mrjediknight]

And why poor Warlock doesn't get Aerial

[@cbav2674]

Once you've caught up and done this with every hero in the game, it could be fun for you to share the link to this tierlist with your community so we can rank them ourselves. Then we could see an average of what people think of these cards across the community

[@WinningHandPodcast]

I love that!

[@urloony]

Great video as always gentlemen, I love the Team-up episodes. It would be great top see a video about what you perceive as the future of MC now that Caleb is leaving the development team.

[@VillainTheory]

Thanks! And I am actually planning to touch on the Caleb thing in my next video!

[@WinningHandPodcast]

Time to create a V tier 😂 Great episode as usual, apologies for the feline intrusion!

[@VillainTheory]

It was a paw performance but it's fine. You've got away with it by a whisker

[@WinningHandPodcast]

@@VillainTheory Now you're just trying to hurt meow feelings.

[@jonathanpickles2946]

A lot of fun as usual! I'm not convinced by the S tierness of the Adam Warlock card. That implies that all his other cards would be S tier (whatever that means in the context of worst cards) and I don't think they are, the attack for sure isn't. I had a lot of fun playing Valkyrie and she was the hero who most exceeded my expectations before Bishop came out. That's in terms of fun at least, she is rubbish, and her cards are as bad as they appeared when spoiled. I would probably say the Spear is worse as you might play it when you need your restricted slot for a better card. I suppose that you might argue that having Shield Maiden in hand would encourage you to put Death Glow on the villain where it messes you up for an age. The fact that she struggles to do her main job without help makes my think that she may be the worst designed (more likely worst developed) hero in the game. That's before getting to her not functional defending package, absent economy and dubious thwarting.

[@VillainTheory]

I actually really like his attack card. It's difficult, because I can see myself putting it in A and not S, but I wouldn't drop it over other options. He needs it for tempo in my opinion, and it can hit up to 8. So in the context of his kit I wouldn't say it's the worst. And then there's Valkyrie... The Spear I like better because you can get some benefit without forcing Deathglow somewhere. An emergency DEF. But yeah. She has some Very Not Good cards.

[@VaultBoy13]

The way I understand it, among the worst cards for each hero, the Adam Warlock card is S-tier. It's not an S-tier card when looking at all cards in the game. I don't know if this is the intent, but I think the tiers fall into something like this: S: Almost always play A: Often play B: Generally play C: Seldom play D: Almost never play

[@jonathanpickles2946]

@@VillainTheory HIs attack is very good but definitely an A type of thing in a world with Cable's attack that is. Every so often it will let you down & the milling is a cost albeit one I usually ignore. Valk is funny - Anabelle is a good card but a bad ally cos of how pushed allies are. Ah well there are enough good heroes that I can play her the two times a year I play MP.

[@VillainTheory]

@jonathanpickles2946 Oh it wouldn't be anywhere near S tier if we're looking at all cards, not just the "worst"!

[@mattvoegtli9928]

Great showing guys! Had me rolling laughing during the Valkyrie segment. Largely agree with your picks, War Machine, Spectrum, Nebula and Valkyrie are pretty easy. Spectrums is good, but if I don't have another form flip in hand, or would die otherwise, its not getting played. Poor Valkyries would be hard to pick because both are so bad. Too bad they didn't build any easy way to remove/move Death Glow in her kit. I think one resource generator that did so would totally have changed her. I think the spear is slightly better, mostly for mean swing and fusillade! I think Vision is super fair either way. I always seem to draw that defense event in the wrong form, but it is great when it hits and Jocasta is a thing. I actually like the cape, but will easily pass on it for almost any other build out card in my hand. I would have gone Soul World for Adam Warlock. I almost always play it, and it only sees use about 1 in every 4 or 5 games, and because of deck cycling I just have this card with 8 to 12 green counters on it. While not necessarily tanky in his kit, he is quite tanky between his build rules. Cosmic Ward and Warlocks Cape both give me some value every game. I would have probably gone for the Cape between the 2, for all the reason Villian said. I don't really stat build Warlock, I've tried it and its not as fun or good as other ways to build him IMO. Villian, when are you going to relent on Big Hands? It's just not as good as the cards it bumping down! Thank you for another fun show gentlemen.

[@VillainTheory]

Big Hands is bad in a vacuum, but Ms. Marvel really appreciates it. She has a lot of high value but slow tempo options, so the damage - that can be Embiggened, is super playable... Huge fan of Soul World, I usually build to try and take advantage of it though. So maybe that's where some of the difference of opinion comes from. Poor Valkyrie...

[@fromundaman]

The Adam Warlock picks surprised me. I feel like the only card I don't consistently use in his kit is Soul World. Now before you grab the pitchforks, hear me out. Soul World is super strong BUT there are certain builds/team compositions where it is less necessary. For example if your deck has chump blockers or a deck that boosts his Stat line, you might not take much damage. More popular at my table, you might have a teammate playing full defense protection who protects you every turn, meaning you're not taking damage. Soul World is so, so good in situations where you need it, but it's not necessary to advance your board state or win condition; it just staves off the lose condition. If you're not approaching that lose condition, it just sits on the table doing nothing, which makes it less useful than his other cards imo.

[@VillainTheory]

I love the reasoning! But I still love Soul World. Soul World is so powerful I tend to build around it to some degree, boosting hp and not defending often outside of Shield Spell. Flipping down for a full heal is so good that it gives you more room to play other cards and ultimately do more/gain more tempo.

[@DMTip]

Fantastic series! Keep up the great work

[@thetiniestamy]

Losing it over the cat 🤣 Great video as always!

[@VillainTheory]

I thought it was Hellcat at first

[@ThisDoopl]

Another entertaining video! Here are the changes I'd make to the list: Venom Blast, B->A - Good efficiency, works with SW's hero ability, has the Superpower trait. Reload, A->B - Requires setup but even then it's very situational. Accelerated Reflex, C->B - Effectively gain 1 HP every turn on a 9 HP hero? WOW! Yes please! Webbed Up, B->C - Too expensive for a card which only deals with future problems. Works against SM's hero ability. Wrist Gauntlets, C->B - Here's why Stalwart and Steady were invented, because a cheap, consistent source of stun and confuse is stupidly good. Vision's Cape, B->C - Doesn't meet expectations set by other capes, rarely has any immediate effect, , not much synergy, disappoints against stun. A feel-bad card. Looking forward to the next one 😄

[@VillainTheory]

Great stuff! One day I will convince Boomguy to let me move Webbed-Up down 😜

[@dontberash]

My favorite ongoing series

[@Guyito775]

For war machine I say full auto because it doesn’t have piercing! Full auto you can just choose to not play but you need full auto to win.

[@Guyito775]

Nebula, idk I think wide stance but also in protection and perfect defense it’s good but doesn’t stay in play.

[@Guyito775]

Pulsar shield is for sure the worst. Even in protection I would play a protection defensive card.

[@Guyito775]

I love cosmic ward! Mainly because I rarely forget. I think the worst is karmic blast. No piercing and usually less than 6 damage

[@VillainTheory]

Pulsar Shield was definitely the easiest pick, the rest of her cards are just so good

[@jackoconnell906]

Personally, my favorite part of Cosmic Ward is the fact that it triggers in Warlock’s alter-ego. I like to use it as an extra form of protection on turns I choose to flip down, as most other forms of treachery cancelation rely on you being in hero form.

[@VillainTheory]

Great shout, great use for it

[@GetUpandGame]

Count me in as a nebula and a wide stance supporter. As a solo player it’s probably my favorite card of hers. It’s really good on its own but The thing I really appreciate about it is it allows flipping in aspects other than Justice.

[@VillainTheory]

That's another great point. We've just recorded the next episode and I'll spoil for you here that we revisit Wide Stance in a positive way!

[@josephgerman2674]

Adam Warlock: Quantum Magic for Similar reasons with Boomguy's take on Cosmic Ward... Opening hand --QM and trash. Hard Mulligan --QM and trash. Next round Summoning Spell discards 5 upgrades. Quantum Magic NEEDS to be an upgrade, not an event. Play it now, use it later...

[@VillainTheory]

Totally fair. I don't usually have that many bad hands and so on with him but certainly events are prone to turn up at the wrong time

[@GetUpandGame]

I’m glad you guys were appropriately hard on shield maiden. I think it’s probably the worst hero card in the game, and really makes me wonder if Valkyrie was play tested much at all. It’s as you say you, don’t want to put DG on the villain, so when are you ever going to use this card. They gave her three cards for a defense package she has no interest in using. I don’t know how that wouldn’t have been picked up on immediately.

[@VillainTheory]

It's very strange. I wonder if she could initially move Deathglow more easily and they changed it at the last minute?

[@LexiconLeidun]

It did get a slight buff in that it is now a "defense" event -per the new RRG. But I agree, it just isn't a great play. Given it's restricted to the enemy with the death glow, it shouldn't be worse than desperate defense - it should cost 0, let you move the Death Glow, or give you bonus to your defense.

[@j_atkinson]

Great podcast as always. VT is totally wrong about Cosmic Ward... it is the worst in his deck removing player agency around which treachery to stop. Also it's going to be 5 capes when Magneto arrives! :)

[@VillainTheory]

On the other hand, you can choose whether to play Cosmic Ward at any point and it will sit there until a treachery comes up and be useful that way. Contrast with an event or something you can't play unless the right type of encounter card comes up at the right time. Which one truly has less agency...? I don't know, but thanks 😁

[@j_atkinson]

@@VillainTheory They seem equivalent to me personally, to the point that I don't even want to play it. The point of cancelling a teachery is getting to choose which treachery you can cancel, Cosmic Ward doesn't let you do that since you're going in blind not knowing what's coming up. Spycraft and Stepford Cuckoos are superior in my opinion even with drawing another card after it. Usually you can wait for the big bad treachery to show up and hit it with those cards at the time the card shows up. Anyway... keep the content coming. Love your stuff!

[@josephgerman2674]

While I agree with Boomguy about Valkyrie's Spear (I've played it, but never used it), I can't figure out why people hate Val. I agree with D20: Valkyrie might be overpowered. Last game, she drew 14 cards in the second round --that's better than Dr Strange... Hall of Heroes is a no-brainer in her deck --she can almost trigger it every round. Val has BIG turns. If you're playing her, you get to play a lot. Throw a few overkill cards in there, and she's just hitting everything. Obviously, she gets most of her benefits from minion-heavy decks, but for all her drawing out minions, she's 5x less risk than Star Lord. She doesn't stress the team. She can vector heavy minions away from weaker heroes (and defend with Shieldmaiden). She can handle it. She's fun!

[@VillainTheory]

Hate is a strong word. I would perhaps say I hate her nemesis set, and at least severely dislike 2-3 of her cards and obligation. But as for Valkyrie, for me she is a few great ideas with flawed execution. Drawing 14 cards is going to take a very, very specific set of circumstances. Since Hall of Heroes draws you 3, that's also going to include 2x Chooser of the Slain, Nick Fury, maybe Ironheart? And I presume you also drew Dragonfang early or it was a weak-minion scenario? All drawn in the correct sequence to make it work? Dr. Strange can definitely do better when his cards line up, and his cards will often do more than Valkyrie's. Though of course it varies, drawing 14 cards is absolutely 110% not the norm with her. The game is advertised for 1-4 players, Valkyrie is too, but her solo viability is way below every other hero in the game to the point I don't even think she should be advertised for 1-player. Some people do enjoy her there, and that's great, but Marvel Champions is a fun system baseline. And for me she actually falls below the baseline of fun in solo and in 2-player it's debatable and dependent on many factors. She's much better at 3-player and especially 4-player, but if you don't get Dragonfang early you are a 2 ATK hero built to ready when defeating something which is rough with some barely functional cards and otherwise mostly overpriced cards. Death glow is great but everything else falls very short of the mark. And then there's Enchantress... To cut a long story short, I'm glad she's fun for you but she isn't that much fun for me because she has many more flaws than strengths, with multiple of the worst flaws constituting poor design choice in my eyes rather than fun weaknesses to play around. Because she's not fun for me overall, and the problem cards don't really function/her nemesis is laughably ridiculous for her. Whew!

[@josephgerman2674]

@@VillainTheory Don't forget Valhalla --grab another chooser of the slain. That's such a good card. Don't forget how many cards "Bring it" could add after Chooser of the slain and Angela. Those are cheap and easy to play. 14 cards is a high point --but the point is that she is able to do that. That 14-card draw was a real game, not theoretical. Theoretically, she could draw almost double that: 3x Chooser of the Slain, Angela, 3x Bring it, and Hall of Heroes --is that 27 cards? Could be more if I had a larger card pool. I think Dr Strange drew 12 cards for me once by double-playing an invocation. With Val, she has several big turns where she draws more than 8 cards. It's common --not at all an edge case. How do you get these cards out early? She's drawing like crazy. That's the theme. I totally get the solo criticism. D20 Woodworking thinks she's OP in solo, but I don't know how he's building his decks (I'd guess 8-10 allies are picking up the slack). I never play solo, so I haven't experienced any of that angst. 2-4 player, Val is just a powerhouse --and remember, I build my whole box for game night, so these are budget decks. Aggression heroes only get 3-4 allies in my box (that's all I can afford). Val handles budget deckbuilding very well. I've never had a single bad game with Val.

[@LexiconLeidun]

@@josephgerman2674 Bring it! is limited to once per turn, and you can't play both Chooser of the Slains alongside Valhalla, since Valhalla is an alter-ego action. I love Valkyrie, though - I think Valk shines in multi-player games especially. Solo players just don't have as many opportunities to see her at her best or really experience the big plays she can make. Any 4-player game with a minion-heavy encounter deck is going to see why Valkyrie is a powerhouse in aggression.

[@josephgerman2674]

@@LexiconLeidun Ooo, dang. I was getting too excited about Val and didn't double check the cards. I never thought about that note on Bring It, because it's an event --I thought like maybe Ms Marvel couldn't recur it (that would be OP)... Thanks for clarifying. In our 14-card draw, we didn't cheat, as Val's deck only has one "Bring it," (would love to have more, but whole-box building is tough). IIRC, in our game we had 1 minion already in play for Val. She started with 5 cards, played 1 Chooser, Angela, Bring it, triggered Valhalla, and triggered Hall of Heroes = 14. Basically Chooser, Angela, and Bring it lined up. I think Angela and Chooser were already in hand, then Bring it was drawn from Chooser. 14 cards is crazy, but having those cards line up didn't feel that crazy. Just another day on the job for Val... ;-)

[@LexiconLeidun]

Glad that Adam Warlock got some love from VT. I understand BoomGuy's displeasure with Cosmic Ward, but I think he's sleeping on the fact that this card triggers when you are in Alter Ego, which none of the other treachery cancels can do. It can cancel an advance or SotP while you are flipped down, and this card gets stronger the harder the encounter deck is. Unlike many win-more cards that are most often used when you are already ahead, this card scales to the challenge you are facing. I think you all were a little too hard on Scorched Earth. I think it probably is the worst card in War Machine's kit, but I think it's better than Venom Blast and probably belongs in A-Tier. With at least one minion in play, it does at least 6 dmg for 3 cost - but you can pay for it with the gauntlets, which can reduce its cost to 1 and generate 2 ammo counters for it (if both are in play). Also, it's not an attack - so it bypasses guard and retaliate. In solo it's often not a great play, but in 2 or more players, or in a multi-villain scenario, this card is an amazing amount of damage for the cost.

[@VillainTheory]

It's funny, one of the other recent comments says we were too kind to Scorched Earth and need to move it down to C! Definitely a divisive card.

[@TheMaskedHero]

Despite shieldmaiden being a little bit better than you two are giving a credit for, as it's already been noted that it received errata. I think it still edges out Visit Valhalla, which is the first card that I think of as her worst card.

[@VillainTheory]

Unfortunately I don't think the defense trait does much for Shieldmaiden. It helps with Nerves, Jocasta and Defensive Energy - but I don't think those help form good decks for her. ...But it's better than not having the trait. Visit Valhalla is a good shout. Such a strange card for her to have! I wonder if she had something more alter-ego specific at one point in her design? Or they just wanted to enforce a slight theme in the wave of searching for cards? (Quantum Magic, Density Control)

[@danthecrow1701]

Come Get Me Bub does make a few of these cards look a bit better (cough….cough….) #TeamShieldToss #Justice4ShieldToss 😂 looking forward to the epic/feature length compilation video when all is said and done.

[@VillainTheory]

Shield Toss, it was too young... We barely knew it...

[@misterpreposterous5771]

Why make an F tier for Valkyrie, when you could make a D20 tier just for her? ;)

[@VillainTheory]

Haha!

[@Champion_Leon]

As a War-machine enthusiast who play too many of it, you guys are putting Scorched Earth too high. Sure if you get the best scenario and hit 3+ enemies it’s fair but you can pay 2 for 8 with overkill. It’s like shieldmaiden, if you line it up perfectly you can get value but it’s too much.

[@VillainTheory]

I'm kinda feeling we put it too high, honestly. Spoiler alert but I mention I think it's a bit high near the end of the next episode we've already recorded now.

[@dontberash]

Hey Villain and Boomguy, I have two sets (5 cards, totaling 10) of the original core box set hero promo cards that I would like you to be able to give away on your channel. I believe they’re from 2019? They’re hard to come by. Just enjoy the show and wanna support. Not sure if you have a business email but feel free to message me here and I’ll send you picture proof and we can figure out where to send the cards, if that’s exciting to you.

[@VillainTheory]

They are so hard to come by I've only managed to get the Iron Man one! That's insane. Incredibly generous, thank you. If you're absolutely sure, hit me up at [e-mail] - I made this for the podcast but basically do all viewer communication through it now.