Maria Hill: The Ultimate Support Hero? [Marvel Champions Deep Dive]

[@VillainTheory]

Can't remember if I said it but The Pericles and the new Vulnerable keyword are an excellent match. And The Iliad doesn't care about retaliate or if you're stunned/confused etc!

[@markzsombor6059]

Well, I guess we now know why Build Support had a cost cap on the supports it can put into play. I love seeing a character with a different play philosophy.

[@MAXFightMan]

I love it when older cards get new life. Med team and tac team are coming out of the box, and I can't wait to see what they do.

[@j_atkinson]

Agent 13 (basic) is going to be a auto include in any Maria Hill deck going forward! I can see it now. Deploy Agent 13 with Circe, thwart or attack with Agent 13, ready Circe and deploy another big cost ally! Great analysis as always!

[@VillainTheory]

Thanks! The Circe looks so crazy

[@RVD1OFAKIND]

"I'll stop after Magneto, I have enough stuff and don't care about shield..." FF: *teases this hero* "God.... dammit..."

[@VillainTheory]

There's no escape!

[@jmlitwiller]

Why would you want to?

[@j_atkinson]

Kind of in the same boat. I was planning to probably skip this box especially after seeing the leaked content. Now... I don't know. I can't keep up I know.

[@tmmw1975]

As soon as I read the article I couldn’t wait to hear your thoughts on it.

[@VillainTheory]

Well here they are!

[@jeffthompson1530]

Same, right!? I had a bunch of ideas then thought.... Villain Theory will have this covered.

[@sedlak87]

same!

[@LC_Umbe]

Cosmo, Atlas Bear, Legion will all combo very well with Global Logistics.

[@VillainTheory]

I like the idea of using it with those allies but I find it's hard to beat the value of using Global Logistics on the encounter deck. Still, those are fun and I'll throw Wolfsbane as another great ally to take advantage of it.

[@LC_Umbe]

@ Makes sense. Knowing what you’ll face in the next villain phase is far more valuable than Cosmo not taking damage. Though Cosmo being a Shield agent is a pretty cool idea.

[@javgoro]

I was underwhelmed by Maria Hill when she was first announced, but this article has turned that around completely. I haven't been this hyped for a hero in a long time. So, so interesting, and such a unique design. She's almost certainly going to be one of the two characters I use for my first run of the box. I'm really H.Y.P.E.D. 😂

[@rambler209]

I think that reinforcements is actually going to be the thing to keep her kit rolling in game. It lets you add counters to all the cheap supports (Support Staff, Fiend Agent, etc), and then her hero power lets her move them to the big hitters. For the ready effect, honestly, i will probably target the small stuff too. Hitting an aspect helicarrier will surely be powerful, but getting a (basic) Helicarrier plus three Support Staffs back will probably (in the long run) have a bigger impact.

[@johnwaynemcclung8056]

This is exactly what I was thinking, so I thought I'd check to see if anyone else had already said it. 🙂

[@VillainTheory]

I'm a little concerned about the setup time of getting huge and small supports out, but there will definitely be times it's better on the small ones. With that said, she only has one copy of Support Staff. In my head you want to set up 2x big helicarriers and Director of SHIELD, and that's 17 effective resources at that point. That's a lot. Also putting out 4 other supports and keeping the game afloat is going to be tricky. You could of course go for one big carrier and some smaller supports, perhaps that will be the more practical play? But I'll have to play her to really give any kind of solid answer to that, and I suspect the answer will change at different player counts. The article says the big supports are central to her gameplan and the main target for her abilities to add/move counters. I assume this comes from some playtesting and knowledge of all the cards, but it also wouldn't be the first time the desired strategy has differed from the way FFG have presented it.

[@rambler209]

@@VillainTheory that's fair. I missed on the single copy of support staff. But Reinforcements also doesn't state that it has to go on things that already have counters on them. So you could put counters on things like Govt Liaison, in anticipation of moving them off using her hero ability. The problem I foresee with her is that without Reinforcements happening, you'll end up running out of counters to move around, because you'll be spending so many every turn.

[@johnwaynemcclung8056]

@@VillainTheory Yes, I was also wondering just how much build out I'm going to do for Maria Hill. One of the things I make sure to evaluate while playing (as a solo player) is the following: Am I built out enough to push for victory now? That was something I eventually realized from watching a few playthroughs by D20 since he typically doesn't rely on a significant build. I don't have to build out completely -- I only have to build out enough (and then any extra build out after that is just bonus that occurs naturally based on card draw).

[@brettmcniven1662]

I couldn’t be more excited for this box and Maria! I’ve been a SHIELD fan since I got into Marvel, so having a wave of cards for that group is potentially the most I’ve been excited for a box in this game. I can’t wait to use The Circe to drop in Dum Dum Dugan for free, and have some Field Agents to keep him healthy and let him go wild on the villain!

[@samstevens180]

i think one of the biggest strengths of marvel champs and games like it is its ability to generate interest in an enormous pool of marvel characters. sure, i already loved the big names in marvel, but i didn't care about maria hill 2 days ago. now, i'm way more interested in her as a character because of the interesting and thematic mechanics they've cooked up. what a great game

[@VillainTheory]

It's pretty great!

[@metal_banshee]

I’d love to see more cards in the future with text like on Organizational Support, tribal support that works with whatever trait your identity has.

[@VillainTheory]

Honestly I should have celebrated that in this video, that's such an amazing thing for card design to use here. I really enjoyed all the mutants but it feels like I don't use half the aspect/basic cards outside of the X-Men/Force heroes. Trait-specific stuff for any trait seems like the best of everything.

[@webwarriorfanatic]

I count on VT to tell me how many copies of each card will be in a new hero’s kit 💯

[@VillainTheory]

You can always count on me to count!

[@matthewcowan1475]

I think she is one of the most unique heroes we've had in a while. She honestly reminds me of what you could see in the custom content community. I can't wait to play her. That said, I'm pretty surprised by your initial star ratings. While Iliad is strong and can do work for thwarting and attacking, its her only means in her kit to do that (from what we've seen). I feel like she should have 1 star for damage and 2 for thwarting due to that (maybe compromise and say 2 star damage and 3 star thwart).

[@VillainTheory]

I think having 2 THW and the ability to set up what looks to be 4 threat removal a turn on top of that with the Iliad is more thwarting than most hero kits are capable of and much more consistent. 1 ATK + 5 damage not quite so much, but once the engine is running it's potentially 5-10 damage from the Iliad each turn on top of everything else you're doing. I could see myself moving them down, especially the damage rating, but she's a weird character to rate. It may also depend on what other 6-costs we get for Aggression and Justice, as well as other SHIELD support.

[@prufrock1977]

She’s going to blow villains out of the sky!

[@ericnickols9471]

Always the best vids VT; your knowledge and coverage is always on point. Really looking forward to the new SHIELD scenarios and new spy tactics/org supports.

[@jackbell2568]

Great Video again VT. I wasn't particularly excited for SHIELD but they have knocked this out of the park. Really looking forward to seeing what they do with Nick Fury. Can see lots of Decoys being used. 1 thing I was confused about though was how she could use Rocket and Gamora as allies, as they state your Hero Identity has the Guardian trait. Maria can give them SHIELD but doesn't change to Guardian herself.

[@jackbell2568]

*has to have the GUARDIAN trait . Sorry.

[@VillainTheory]

Great question. So in Marvel Champions, "playing an ally" and "putting an ally into play" are slightly different things. The best explanation is in the 1.6 rules reference for the game, but here's a copy paste from it: "Some abilities cause cards to be put into play. This bypasses the need to pay the card’s cost as well as any restrictions or prohibitions regarding playing that card" So you can use cards like Make the Call, Call for Backup and now The Circe to bypass restrictions such as "only play if you're a Guardian". But it's a double-edged sword as "putting an ally into play" does not trigger effects on allies that only trigger when "played from hand".

[@drchurch13]

I think you use Reinforcements on 3 to 6 cheaper supports since you can slowly ferry those to your hellicarriers. Makes it way more likely you can keep them all game. I would consider even throwing a token on the Triskelion as an easy way to get more tokens and then immediately move ot to a hellicarrier where it's useful.

[@VillainTheory]

I do think there will be times that the smaller supports are better, and also times the expensive one is preferable. But I also still think it's a big ask to get multiple small supports set up alongside 1-2 bigger supports, and if you are running a few smaller supports you might have enough counters to keep moving them anyway. Really need to play her 🤔 February seems so far away

[@Guyito775]

Field agent being 1 cost for 3 counters is crazy value for those big helicarriers

[@VillainTheory]

And crazy value for big allies in other aspects. I wonder if Nick is coming with 3 of them reprinted? They almost feel mandatory to have

[@Guyito775]

@@VillainTheoryyeah he justice style is going to be crazy if Maria hill was how I felt Nick might be. My best guess is infiltration and it’s going to be placing lots of cards in the encounter deck

[@torlumnitor8230]

Im gonna try a leadership avengers deck with her. Use quinjets and Cerce to cheat in Captain America, Captain Marvel, Giant Man, etc. splash in Field Agent and Med Team to keep them healed up. Run Save the Day as a finisher, and Command teeam to get some double activations.

[@tromdial7719]

I am super excited Maria Hill is exactly what I predicted, a support focused hero, but I was not expecting the massive fleet of warships, that's awesome. Your assessment on Top 25 seems correct, she is going to be selfish in needing a couple rounds to setup, if she is going for those big ships.

[@VillainTheory]

The fleet is so cool, I love it so much. I will definitely try and amass a huge fleet even when it doesn't make sense to sometimes for the fun factor (when the difficulty allows it)

[@gvsuchris]

About the missing cards, number 1 is her identity. So likely card 3 will be a 2x. Since card 2 is likely her sig ally.

[@VillainTheory]

Ah right. 1/15 is the signature ally, but #1 is the identity. They caught me out. Thanks!

[@thomasmcintosh1452]

She looks interesting has some of the DNA of characters I like and a unique hook, I think in solo she will be a low B but shine in multiplayer (especially with the flexibility in her deck building rule breaker). I'll probably try a Boot Camp build (grabbing Command Team x3, Triskelion x1, and Field Agent x3 as my off aspects) won't necessarily be a good deck but should be a fun blast through standard on my first play

[@VillainTheory]

Sounds super fun!

[@DMWaldo]

I'll reiterate for Front Organization that you control all cards in your hand, deck, and discard pile. I don't know how useful that is in most situations, but you could use it with deck manipulation or knowledge to prevent an important card from being discarded off your deck. Or prevent an encounter card from making you discard from hand. ** edit - This is wrong, more in replies. **

[@DMWaldo]

Ack... this is wrong. While you do control the cards in your hand, deck and discard pile, the rules continue: "If a game step or card ability references a card that “you control” or a “player controls,” that game step or card ability only refers to cards in play currently under that player’s control." Boo.

[@VillainTheory]

I saw this comment and was going to reply earlier that it didn't work. I've had the exact same thought for something else regarding control of cards, and then found it doesn't work because of the point you mentioned. The wording and rules around control are wild. "You control the cards in your hand unless a card refers to what you control, then you ignore the cards in your hand even though it's talking about what you control and you control them." Like...HUH?! Honestly, it does make sense for some balance and functionality reasons, but it's heckin' confusing. I suspect they might rephrase certain concepts if they had the opportunity to rewind time and rebuild the foundations.

[@DMWaldo]

Yeah. They added that extra bit about "cards in play currently" at the 1.4 Rules change. There are so many rules that talk about cards that you control, like "block with allies you control" that I guess they had to clarify what we mostly understood was the case. You can't block with an ally in your hand, even though you control it. Even though you "control" that support card in your hand or discard pile, it's just a card, not really a "support". You can't discard a card already in your discard pile because you control it and you've been asked to discard a card you control. etc. But the rule about controlling cards in all of your out of play areas has been in since 1.0, so it does seem like something that was just overlooked for a while until the rules lawyers really went at it, and I'm sure if they could re-release all cards they would change a few things.

[@MauroLB]

I think that the counters than can be moved are only the ones given by her kit. Its not that you play a field agent and move his counters to the Ilyad. Btw, the 0 cost support Front Organization also get a (Free) counter from Reinforcements

[@VillainTheory]

Unfortunately Front Organization is not SHIELD-traited or that would be amazing from Reinforcements! As for moving counters, her hero ability suggests even aspect SHIELD cards are valid targets. Nothing says otherwise that I can see

[@MauroLB]

@VillainTheory Oooh to bad with the truck. Could have been great. My doubt regarding the counters is that the hero ability says "all-purpuse counter" (The same as the other cards in her kit), but for example The Iliad has "Mission counters", Command team has "Command counters", Field Agent has "Backup counters" and so on and so forth

[@VillainTheory]

Ahh I get you. "All-purpose counter" is basically the term for the actual physical counters that go on those cards. We have confirmation from the writer of the article that it works! (You can see it here at the top before the cards: hallofheroeslcg.com/agents-of-shield/)

[@iggy8u]

I am excited by how unique she looks. But on your thoughts around the existing SHIELD cards that might work with her - I wonder if we'll see 2 somewhat distinct SHIELD deck types. 1 that wants to run a few expensive cards (like Maria) and 1 that wants to run lots of cheap cards (like Mile's precon). Because you wouldn't want to exhaust one of those big carriers to pay for Global Logistics or Homeland Intervention.

[@VillainTheory]

I'm thinking you run 2 big aspect helicarriers and at least 3-6 cheaper SHIELD supports from which to move counters from. Those cheaper ones are probably the ideal Global Logistics/Homeland/Dum Dum Dugan targets for exhaustion while doing so.

[@iggy8u]

Yeah I can see that. But I don't think you'll end up running any/many 3-cost SHIELD supports (like Tac team and Med team) with her, which is a shame, because they'll feel too "in the middle". Not big enough to have counters moved to them, but still big enough that it doesn't feel efficient using them just to gift tokens to other cards.

[@VillainTheory]

We might end up getting a Monica Chang for Tac Team or something similar? I have to imagine or at least hope they don't pull a Web-Warriors and only support 2/4 aspects with new trait toys 🙏 Perhaps even the Aggression super helicarrier will combo with Tac Team?

[@TheMaskedHero]

As someone who has grown away from +1/+1 counter decks in Magic, she doesn't really excite me. I bet her gameplay will be great and other players will absolutely cherish her.

[@VillainTheory]

Totally fair. Never played much Magic surprisingly but this one looks fun for me. And I hope Nick excites you more!

[@cbav2674]

I feel like Maria Hill will end up like Adam Warock for me- there will be one specific deck I play with her bc it will be the "best" build for her. People were excited about deck building possibilities for him, and I don't hear that at all anymore. I also only see her in two possible aspects- Leadership (bc it's leadership) or Justice (global logistics). I also think her gameplay will become linear over time- for example everyone will decide getting Helicarrier or a specific support is best on turn 1. I'm excited for a new hero, new aspect cards, and a new style of play. But I don't expect Maria Hill to be a character that I personally play much, just because I think the "interesting decisions" she seems to have will become concrete as we play with her more. Thoughts?

[@VillainTheory]

I actually love Adam and building different decks for him, he has tons of potential decks and they do well! In fact, his X-Men deck I love has gotten better with all the new releases including Magneto's. Right now I think Justice and Leadership do look better for her - but I am expecting more SHIELD aspect support this wave and something like Goldballs + Field Agent is casually 24 damage (albeit across many turns, the value is there), which at least starts to put Aggression into consideration for me. I think she'll have a variety of builds though. Marvel Champions doesn't push you to optimize unless you play Ronan/Heroic/Valkyrie all the time ha!

[@cbav2674]

@VillainTheory Fair. Maybe I need to try this X-Men Warlock deck. I've never played anything other than the one iconic Warlock deck that "solved" him. I think you've inspired me to have more fun and play less "optimally" :)

[@VillainTheory]

One day I'll find time to do a video on Adam 😁

[@adamross3487]

@villaintheory - What makes you sure that you HAVE to include the maximum number of 3 SHIELD supports from other aspects? Is the keyword not "may"? I'm guessing the reasoning is that it does not say, "may include up to the maximum number of copies". I think there is room for interpretation here.

[@VillainTheory]

Yeah the phrasing is so odd, it definitely took me a minute to figure it out and I believe we got confirmation from the article writer. But basically we just need to focus on the first half of that crazy sentence. It says "You may include the maximum number of copies of 3 SHIELD supports". It is telling us we may or may not include them, but if we do we must include the maximum, not up to the maximum, as you say. "You may include the maximum", but nothing is giving us permission to have less than that. And since we can't normally take from outside the aspect, we can only really do what it says. I have to believe they would phrase it differently entirely if you could take less. And then it specifies 3 SHIELD supports. When combined with the first part, I make that to mean three different supports but as many of each as possible. Hopefully that makes sense? I dislike the phrasing of it but I expect they elaborate on it in the booklet that comes in the expansion box!

[@LC_Umbe]

I think there’s only two unique cards between 1 to 3 on her kit. So probably an Ally as No 1 and one event

[@VillainTheory]

You're right, I totally forgot to include her identity card in the unique card count. Thanks!

[@heroicskeleton1566]

I get the maximum number part, but if you chose to add the out of aspect cards do you have to pick 3? It doesn't say "up to 3", it just says 3. So it sounds like you either pick none, or you need all 3? You can't just only grab med teams and have the rest of the deck leadership, for example?

[@heroicskeleton1566]

Just realized that since these 6 cost ships are all unique, they are 1 ofs. So having to include multiple different ones takes up less of your deck space at least. But still curious if you have to actually go all or nothing

[@VillainTheory]

Gonna copy and paste this from another comment I just made. It's very strange wording and, if it turned out to be different, I wouldn't be that surprised! --- "Yeah the phrasing is so odd, it definitely took me a minute to figure it out and I believe we got confirmation from the article writer. But basically we just need to focus on the first half of that crazy sentence. It says "You may include the maximum number of copies of 3 SHIELD supports". It is telling us we may or may not include them, but if we do we must include the maximum, not up to the maximum, as you say. "You may include the maximum" - but nothing is giving us permission to have less than that. And since we can't normally take from outside the aspect, we can only really do what it says. I have to believe they would phrase it differently entirely if you could take less. And then it specifies 3 SHIELD supports. When combined with the first part, I make that to mean three different supports but as many of each as possible. Hopefully that makes sense? I dislike the phrasing of it but I expect they elaborate on it in the booklet that comes in the expansion box!"

[@dyciefisk2535]

Time to play as the XCOM Commander! ...In three months.

[@VillainTheory]

Ahhh I love XCOM I can't believe I didn't see it, yes!

[@bryantstewart8280]

I don’t know. I think “reinforcement” used on 3 small supports, And then use her hero ability over the next 3 turns to move them over to a better support could be good value…. But it’s a very poor tempo play

[@VillainTheory]

I'll have to see how she actually plays. The thing is I could just play Field Agent for 1-cost (just like Reinforcements) for 3 counters and keep moving those. I feel like the advantage of Reinforcements is you can skip the enforced movement speed (once per turn) of her hero ability to get more onto the big carriers. But I could be wrong. There will be times hitting multiple smaller supports is good, I have to imagine.

[@yazank87]

It would have been nice if they didn't use the "Uses" keyword for the Iliad, like we got with Rocket

[@VillainTheory]

That would be super convenient - especially for The Hard Call. Perhaps they thought it would be too powerful?

[@axelxa6840]

What about pinpoint ?

[@Guyito775]

I was thinking about pinpoint too. You could easily make the call for him or get him in and wow!

[@VillainTheory]

Pinpoint is always interesting. In what context are we talking about him here? When something leaves play, he puts it back into your deck. The best card I can see for that here in Maria is Support Staff? I don't think you want to really have to ever replay a 6-cost support if you can help it. Make the Call only works if you are Leadership, and Pinpoint is Protection. (Unless someone else brings Pinpoint in multiplayer.) The Circe works but you then chose to use it on a slow-tempo 2-cost ally which is dead in your hand without the Circe. Maybe he's especially good with an aspect card she likes that I'm not seeing? You can put Med Teams and things back in, which is fun. But I'm not quite sold yet

[@jonathanpickles2946]

Don't play Grant in Heroic! She looks right up my street. 6 is an awful lot to play for anything though. Dum Dum is a big effort to play right now & I feel she may be even more of a struggle to get going than you suggest. 9 HP with 3 rec is regular human stats so she was always going to be there. It doesn't go lower, yet.

[@VillainTheory]

Honestly it's totally possible she is slower/harder to build up than I anticipated. But we'll see!

[@markusoppolzer4457]

Maybe she is a S.H.I.EL.D. Maiden, like Brienne of Tarth.

[@VillainTheory]

SHIELD Maiden is the perfect deck name