EVERY Legion Unit Ranked (p2 - Adding Liber Hereticus) - Horus Heresy - Age of Darkness

[@jellydamgood]

I still dont get why firedrakes are so low. They will cream everything in s tier 1v1.

[@EAfirstlast]

I beat them for cheaper with suzerains

[@pascal9055]

@@EAfirstlast That may be true anecdotally, but is it true in 1000 simulations? And yes, Suzerains are genuinely S tier. 10 cost 325. 40 attacks on 10. 20 hit on equal weapon skill. 10 wounds retained. 1/3 go through against 3++. 4 wounds dealt on average. 11 attacks back from Fire Drakes. 6 go through on WS5. 5 Wounds retained. 3-4 dead Suzerains on average on a 4++ with Brutal(2).

[@EAfirstlast]

@@pascal9055 Suzerains buy thunder hammers. Just axes will lose against a lot (most importantly dreadnoughts). Every suzerain can buy a thunder hammer for cheep and you want at LEAST three, and as many as six.

[@pascal9055]

@ Yeah they win then, 400pts vs 400pts.

[@pascal9055]

@@EAfirstlast And while you are definitely right, this is the only mathematical infantry fight that Fire Drakes lose. Both of these units are S-tier. Fire Drakes, for example, handle a volley of las cannons of the face better than Suzerains. Suzerains are a twinge better in melee and more versatile since they stuff into a land raider.

[@agripinaa8684]

Iron Circle may have synergy with Mech allies, but they’re so absolutely outshined by Dominators since the suffer from the WS4 that melee Mechanicum suffers from. Tyrant Sieges are the ideal of the standard-Marine-bullying unit, and even vs dreadnoughts the Legion rule comes into play. I’ll eat my goddamn hat if Havocs aren’t in S tier.

[@Dvrk_3ntries]

Another bit of an upsell on Lernean Terminators, since chainfists lost specialist weapon, you can give the sergeant one, and pay 5 points for a power dagger (which also lost specialist weapon) to make him 5 attacks on the charge.

[@shadeofheresy]

Mhara Gal have to be S tier. They are insane! Enjoying the tier lists.

[@meatlaser]

Loved the first one guys cant wait to finish this one

[@meatlaser]

Awesome list, the only one I would argue is that Night Raptors are Bottom of A right below the P blades. In terror assault they are just insanely good if they pin they can end up with 6 attacks EACH on their normal mooks with Lightning claws. Throw a chaplin in there and they are just blenders. I've not had a unit I have not killed with them if they got the pin and the charge.

[@meatlaser]

If you put a Telepathy Libby in there too you are a bad, bad man but they become VERY good.

[@greenstreet_gaming5409]

They are too pricey though. Its so painful to have a squad of 10 being arpund 370ish points. I love them. I use them but its painful

[@Baktrianos]

‘Ere We go ❤

[@BearfootMiniatures]

Hope you enjoy it mate!

[@Baktrianos]

@@BearfootMiniatures As always! And as an AL player you are basically showing me a shopping list 😄. Jokes aside, it’s good to hear from veterans of the game (I’m new and I haven’t played against all legions yet, just 5).

[@j.barker]

you've surely roped yourselves into a primarch tier list right? please!

[@BearfootMiniatures]

I’ll float it to bill!

[@florian8356]

Putting all of these in one list, does make it kind of hard to read. I would have preferred 1 for loyalist, 1 for traitors

[@BearfootMiniatures]

We went with them all together as the individual ones have been done in a few places but we hadn’t seen anyone doing how does everything compare to everything else: it’s just a bit of a byproduct it makes the table harder to read

[@chrisjohal1755]

I agree should be by traitor and loyalist, then maybe also year of release... oh and base size.. that would make it exciting.. half a job as always by that hippy guy

[@florian8356]

@@BearfootMiniatures Yeah I can see that. As someone who's somewhat familiar with HH, I know the ones from my own legions, but by the end I'm really guessing which is which based on very small pictures. Just personal preference I guess. Thanks for all the great videos!

[@DaddyWarCrimes78]

Splitting them in half kind of downplays the discrepancies between the two factions.

[@mobro23295]

Id add to the fact that deathshroud are the most expensive base termi outside custodes and certain units with upgrades, there only good thing is 3 wounds with battlehardened 1 they have next to no shooting ability just the alchem flamers and the powerscythe only being rending 6 means they can bearly fight other similar termis. when you mentioned rad grenades they only get that when a character joins them as they dont have a character so your adding more points to a unit to make it better, they cant take a spartan as a DT same a grave wardens.there biggest flaw IMO is there tartorus armour while sweeping is nice and running a 5+ invuln on 70/75 point models isnt enough yeah Thammers and fists wont kill them out right but they will will still die to all the wounds going through. So id reckon that Deathshroud are a low C/ High D cause to make them good they need a character

[@MayhapsOmegon]

35:38 less. Headhunters with multi-melta and 4x combi-meltas is only like 165.

[@lukecullen7934]

what about havocs and dominators

[@AnxiousEducator]

Terror squads for night lords are amazing. They're a glass cannon unit. You should equip them with a mix of chaingiaves and rotor cannons for pinning. I take squad of 10 with 3 rotors and 7 chaingiaves. I run my praetor around with them too. Last game i played they killed a contemptor and then 20 blood angels power sword weilding marines and then held up an elite melee unit for the rest of the game.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

I find they’re ok for bullying tacticals with glaives but get really expensive fast for the 1W, may be an issue on how I’m using them or army setup as a whole

[@AnxiousEducator]

@BearfootMiniatures I think the reason they aren't goon on paper is mostly because terror assault, bloody murder and the legion special rule are so good. You need to be building the list around those rules. In the context of the datasheet by itself terror squads don't look incredible but in the context of night lords and the fact you're getting those gliaves on that squad for only 10 pts each they're really good. You do have reroll to wound bc of shred, preferred enemy and breaching 6+ so they can trade up against enemy legions terminators quite well.

[@James-37]

@@AnxiousEducator you have a totally different view on terrors to me. Found them to be utter rubbish so far. How are they killing contemptors? Fishing for 6s doesnt seem reliable to stop its 2+ save

[@AnxiousEducator]

@James-37 outnumber bonus gives them +1 to wound, chaingiaves got a lot of attacks in a 10 man unit plus you look for rending 6s. You have rerolls to wound. I also run a praetor with mine. Contemptors are not your ideal target but they can wear them down. It made sense at the time in the specific battle I was in. Generally I use my terrors to fight stuff weaker than them. They can mop up big portions of the table which is their role. The praetor is there in case they need to fight anything bigger.

[@James-37]

​@@AnxiousEducatorstill they are gonna mostly bounce off the 2+ save surely. Mine have so far tended to do very little. Mostly go volkite and rotor for some pinning fun. Not used them in an assault role as i dont need them for that and think chainglaives are pretty rubbish now. Bring on the lightning claws. Putting a praetor with them means you lose infiltrate and skirmish on them too.

[@Derpa_Derpa_777]

HELL YEAH

[@XVI_Legion]

Hrmmm......here is the thing though, fire drakes are THE best terminators in the game. Beating a full squad of ten is nearly impossible with any other close combat unit. I run them in my Alpha legion where the rest of the army is entirely focused on shooting, the fire drakes can handle any threat a close combat army can throw at them and usually wade through multiple squads. Add a librarian to the squad if you want insanity.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

I woooould have to agree to disagree on this: with brutal 2 being in vogue and them not being battle hardened or something they get traded maybe not quite as easy but near as easy by other termies I find playing against them

[@LordGrantius]

Huscarls with Solarite Gauntlets might not have Brutal, but their pseudo-Battle Hardened means they'll be instant deathing Firedrakes while not being instant deathed in return

[@XVI_Legion]

@@LordGrantius ahh imperial fists the cheesiest dicks of all cheese dicks, let's hope in the new edition they get a deserving nerf. Also, fire drakes are still better in 90% of situations, the huscarls only become somewhat even if the drakes charge them.

[@AndrewPeverells]

Yassss finally! This was a banger, I agree on pretty much everything. But! I completely disagree on the osiron dreadnought. And it baffles me, because you said it's one of those units it's universally agreed it's very good and it's not even worth discussing on it. So, yeah, here's my opinion on why it's actually bad. First of all, it costs 25 points more than a regular dreadnought. What do you gain? Adamantium will 4+ (whatever), and a weapon that is brutal 2 instead of 3 but can go up to S11. To me, this is already a massive no, it's a downgrade and a massive points difference for a worse loadout. Sure, S11 (which isn't granted, you have to pass a Ld9 test, and you're gonna fail it more than you want) can be situationally good against battle hardened units, but that's a lot of ifs. If you get the power off, if you get the dreadnought in combat, if that unit is actually a battle hardened one (how many are there anyway?), if you're willing to pay more points just for this rare occasion. Then, the icing on this already shitty cake: you have to pay 15 points to benefit from the legion rule, something almost every other legion dreadnought gets for free. And for what? Yeah, a single sniper lascannon shot (not both you get from the gravis las, just one) can be nice, or a +3 movement, but you can kill yourself with that minor power. Ld9 is not good for psychic powers, you still have a pretty high chance of failing the test to warrant 235 points of a worse dreadnought than its base cousin. Finally, you have the option to make it a psyker: 50 points more. An osiron magnus with lascannon and meltagun in the fist is 300 points, as much as a Leviathan. Is an extra ld9 librarian, on top of the 4 you should already have as base in a 3k game, worth more than a Leviathan? Not to me. Honestly, the osiron is such a let down. It's much, MUCH more expensive than a regular dread, it can blow itself up, the benefits you gain are questionable, the weapon you get is arguably a downgrade, and the option of making it a psyker is fun but hardly worth it. Anyway, great show guys, keep it up! Looking forward to the other episodes

[@DirtyMardi]

Well well well! Reavers dead last. How do you try to play them? My reavers consistently slap other elite units around with power fists or serve as cheap despoiler alternatives.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

I’ve run them in a few ways and it’s the expense of them that kills them for me honestly: at 22 points a model and only having a 3+/no in in they don’t compare well to other elites I find that are only a nominal increase with 2+/5++ and power weapon included

[@sehgfx]

i find reavers to be abysmal. the agressor varriant a bit less . but way way to expensive

[@DirtyMardi]

@ I see. You need to think a role for them before you build the unit. You can e.g. run them as despoilers, except WS5 and chain axe. Think of it this way: 1 reaver model = 2 despoiler models. If you take a 10 model reaver squad, you’re effectively taking a 20 model despoiler squad. That’s often not efficient. Take 5-8, chuck in max 3 power weapons. This is what I do in black reaving, except with aggressors instead of assault marines. If you want them to be an elite unit, don’t take power weapons since they’re costed like the reavers were a troops choice unit. Simple as that. Take 6-9 power fists and 10-13 models to have some ablative wounds. You can scale that up to 15-20 models, if you want a real death star. You’ll have so many ablative wounds for tanking hits that you effectively just pay 11 points for an extra wound. They aren’t the best unit, but pretty versatile and they can be quite cheap for a ws5 line unit that will usually kill basic marines almost as well as say palatine blades, but you can also build a unit that kills a squad of palatine blades without being much more expensive.

[@FilmArtet]

i think ashem circle are bottom of c. Yes the are better assault units but AC are the best destroyers wiht in built melta bombs

[@tav5771]

I'm not sure if I understand your reasoning for putting Contekars on D and Raptors on B whil they serve the same role and are fairly similar on terms of cost. You deep strike them and they murder/pin objecive holders. Raptors are faster, Contekars are more durable. I would have put them both in C tbh

[@AltoStratusX1]

Points cost efficency and flexibility. The Terminators aren't able to move about as much as the raptors after they've deepstriked in. The Terminators are much more expensive at 45 base vs 37 points base. The Raptors can be taken as troops in Terror Assualt freeing up more Elites slots. Raptors also get Bloody Murder for the extra attack. Raptors can take a melta gun per 5 and Terminators can only take a choice of 2 bad into other Elites/marines weapons the heavy flamer or the culvern. Raptors with the Chainglaives/swords cost 47 and with power weapons cost while with power weapons or lighting claws cost 43 so they get on par in basic cost of a Contekar but can take a way bigger toolkit. To add more to the squad for raptors is 25 (plus the chainglaive would be 35) vs 40 for the Contekar. So they really don't serve the same purpose in the army and the Contekar as a Terminator unit doesn't really outperform basic Tartaros Terminators (because in Terror assault they would also have fear) and it definitely doesn't perform as well as Raptors in a deep strike role. Raptors also perform much better as a mobile assault unit because of their jet packs and can even threaten Terminators if you give them enough support (via pinning and fear) to activate Bloody Murder and Talent for Murder traits. Edit: for example just because they are durable what are you deepstriking the Terminators into attack? Contekar into other Terminators (where the durability would be needed) are gonna lose to basic Terminators with Thunderhammers. Their chain blades won't be able to take on vehicles because they can't take fists or chainfists. Raptors can take power axes too so they can even get ap 2 when the Contekar can't except on the champion.

[@James-37]

My raptors always outperform my contekar. All claws with buffs stacked my raptors are mincing alot of things. My contekar land, shoot some volkite then do very little else of use.

[@BearfootMiniatures]

^^ pretty great breakdown of the reasons I think by alto there

[@aworldeater7989]

Rampagers ftw. Chaplain with thunder hammer, apothecary, ruin a lot of units.

[@Blackhound61]

As an EC player, not sure Phoenix Guard deserve to be that high. Yes they are defensive and thats nice, but they leave all the heavy lifting to any characters. Having a load of power-fist or TH wielding command squad termies will all hit at initiative 2 on the charge and absolutely wreck ahead of enemy striking - so you don't need to rely on that WS6 so bad

[@BearfootMiniatures]

I’ve found them really good playing against; having WS6 and then adding shriekers from somewhere making them so hard to hit is nasty!

[@Blackhound61]

I also can't help but feel Palatines with axes are a trap. Without an invul they will just really struggle vs enemy 2+. I think their role is utterly dominating enemy 3+ with phoenix spears. they're especially happy against enemy elite units in 3+

[@Blackhound61]

@@BearfootMiniatures fair enough! I do get the defensive side is very strong, just make sure not to match against enemy stubborn so the shriekers work. With Fulgrim I'd say no brainer and he can just clean house

[@giggatey0904]

No Efrit?!

[@BearfootMiniatures]

They’re legacies mate so p3, this is just the liber units