Everyday Science: Starting fire with Steam

Today we are going to start a fire using water (well steam). It is an interesting experiment that can be done at home with just a few things.
The point of the video is to illustrate how important heat is to start a fire and how the medium is not too important. Steam/water doesn't just have inherent anti water properties. If you get it hot enough, then it can start a fire.
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Nile talks about lab safety: • Chemistry is dangerous.

[@Jesse__H]

I had no idea steam and water vapor were different things...

[@khosrow]

Yes and no. It depends on how you define steam and vapor. Even in academics you will encounter the use of both to describe the gaseous state of water and the aerosol. Language just isn't that precise.

[@tassadar7945]

In industrial applications there are two types of steam: Wet Steam and Dry Steam. Wet steam has lots of droplets of condensed water vapor, that's what fogs up your bathroom when you have a really hot shower running or in a sauna, while dry steam has no condensed water vapor in it, and that is whats used in steam power.

[@camrouxbg]

Me neither. And then reading the responses here is further enlightening.

[@User4o3p93ghvjkaehvji]

Vapor is a gas that when pressed (make pressure high) it will be liquid. Steam is a gas that when pressed (make pressure high) it will be supercritical fluid. It is still a gas not a liquid but it's density is high like it is liquid.. In eyes it's gas. When beads are there in closed container, it's like under water in density. In short, it will be not become liquid when pressed.

[@thesilentprofessional7158]

300th likes

[@seeigecannon]

My HS chemistry teacher did this same demo, but he used a more narrow tube and created a coil with it. I suspect that if you heated a coil you would end up with a far higher temperature because you would have the torch effecting a much larger surface area compared to the ID of the tube.

[@drrrrockzo]

That's pretty wild...I've never been around steam that hot before.

[@TheSerotoninMuncher]

And you don't want to. That's how I lost a finger 😁

[@Ahkuji]

I think this is a very important video because I don't think the general public nowadays knows how dangerous steam can be.

[@bonbonpony]

And it better stays this way, or they're gonna ban steam for every snowflake's safety :q You know the usual adage: "If it can save just one life…" ;q

[@kevincrosby1760]

I worked with similar principles daily for years while in the Navy. The ship I was assigned to was steam turbine driven, with a nominal steam pressure of 600 PSI (41 BAR) with superheat. This means that we generated steam at 600 PSI, then ran the steam back through superheater tubes in the firebox to raise the temperature. As the pressure goes up, so does the boiling point. The temperature of steam at 1 BAR is 100 C. The temperature of steam at 600 PSI/41 BAR is about 487 F/ 253 C. After running it through the superheater, we had steam at a working pressure of 600 PSI (41 BAR) at about 850 F/454 C. The interesting thing about steam is that the phase change from water to steam or steam to water takes additional heat. Once you heat 1 pound of water to 100 C, it takes an ADDITIONAL 970 BTUs to change that pound of water to a pound of steam at 100 C. That gives you 970 BTU of energy to use for something. As the steam leaves the nozzles in the turbine and hits the blades it loses energy and cools. The purpose of the superheat is to give you that much additional work as the temperature falls...even after losing 190 C of heat to performing work, there was still that 970 BTU left to be extracted before it became water again. This is VERY simplified overview of a subject upon which entire books have been written. As far as the video goes, know how to find a steam leak that is at 600 PSI, 850 F, and invisible to the naked eye? In all seriousness, with an old-fashioned straw broom which you wave in front of you. When half the bristles disappear and the rest catch fire, you have found your steam leak. We made our steam on a bit larger scale. We were running 32,000 HP / 24,000 kw of geared propulsion turbines, with enough steam left over to supply 8 mW electrical of turbine generators plus steam-driven auxiliary equipment, hot water, space heating, and galley services.

[@theeraphatsunthornwit6266]

I think steam can't create any work when it changes state back to water. How can it push turbine when changing state. Energy just waste into heat. It can push turbine blade (thus create work) because of pressure difference (while they are steam, not when they change state back to water)

[@kevincrosby1760]

@@theeraphatsunthornwit6266 You are on the right path. The temperature at which the phase change from steam to water takes place depends on the ambient pressure. Steam has a volume over 1000x that of water. So, you can use steam as long as the temperature remains above the boiling point of water AT THAT PRESSURE. So we cheat. Steam is the gaseous phase of water. Like any gas, it can be heated. We create steam, then run it back through boiler tubes to heat it up even more. As we use the steam, the pressure decreases. We can adjust for this with turbine designs. Since we started with the steam so hot, we are still well above the condensation point. Once we reach the nominal Condensation Point, we still need to lose the BTUs we added to force the Phase Change. We continue to run the steam through turbines, losing pressure and heat all the while as we allow the steam to expand and perform work. Eventually we reach a point where the steam is nearing the Condensation Point at the ambient pressure, and we aren't going to be able to use it much longer. We again cheat and place a cooled condenser unit on the far side of the last turbine to deliberately condense the exhaust steam. This creates a low pressure area on the turbine outlet, dropping the Condensation point below 212F/100C. The lower the turbine outlet pressure, the longer we can keep the steam working. Eventually, we end up with very hot water (Condensate) which is treated and introduced back to the boiler as very hot Boiler Feed Water. Note that we retain as much of the heat in the Condensate system as possible, so we require less energy to heat it back to steam again. In short, we add extra heat to the steam and then play games with the ambient pressure to keep the steam hotter than it's Condensation point.

[@theeraphatsunthornwit6266]

@@kevincrosby1760 i think you are right...

[@CatboyChemicalSociety]

I wonder if you can sear steaks using superheated steam!

[@unknownunknown-fb1ph]

Its about 700F so ya, you can easily cook a steak with that.

[@darkify1640]

smoked food exist

[@mokodomi]

@@darkify1640 that’s smoke, not steam though

[@Oo0oO520]

@@darkify1640 is your brain made of smoke?

[@jamesharding3459]

@@mokodomi Steaming is a very good way to cook food and also make it very tender at the same time. It’s how my grandmother used to cook Christmas roasts - tenderest piece of meat I’ve ever had!

[@milesc.anthony2811]

I'm happy you have another channel, it's just as fun as "Red". I've been doing what you do for decades and it doesn't get old. I also almost got into Chemical Engineering, but because of monetary issues earned a Masters in English and then became a Professional Bodyguard. But...chemistry has always pleased me. Thanks for the quality content.

[@justinball2250]

I wonder if a masters in English had anything to do with the monetary issues…

[@Thetenthdoctor24]

@@justinball2250 dude don't be a dick. The arts have created all our favourite shows, songs, books, and movies. Without English Masters degree holders life would be a lot more boring.

[@RottenFishbone]

@@Thetenthdoctor24 Well, I would reckon that most entertainment media are not produced by graduates.

[@awp-erator4525]

@@RottenFishbone and who developed entertainment, and taught those that are building the entertainment industry today in high school, elementary school??...

[@terrancenorris9992]

@@justinball2250 Well, having a masters in English would certainly go far in conversations with clients...😁

[@sandwich2473]

It's really cool how the copper looks like steel or something shiny like that when it's being heated by the torch

[@asnad59]

I once burnt my finger when I was opening a water heater lid. I was confused back then as to how fast and painful steam can be if not careful. Thanks for the awesome vid!

[@emilalmberg1096]

Thank you for using SI units... You can make a video about the water's ability to solve things, depending on the temperature. I happened once to make tea with cold water and was amazed at how strange the water appeared before I realized it was cold!

[@masacatior]

Does hot water steam support a magnesium fire, even without oxygen?

[@NileBlue]

Hmm, I am not sure

[@thomascoulter7943]

I know this is REALLY late, but in the event of a magnesium fire, magnesium will actually rip apart the bonds between elements that contain oxygen in order to sustain itself. Similar to how if you put magnesium powder in some dry ice, the magnesium will actually split the CO2 to form O2, which it uses to sustain. The carbon then collects together in a nugget.

[@jordanrodrigues8265]

Magnesium burns underwater, so I'm sure it will continue to burn once started. The reaction is H2O + Mg -> H2 + MgO . I haven't played with the thermodynamics of reactions in a while, but IIRC you'd calculate the Gibbs free energy and get a pretty good guess at how favorable this is vs combustion in air. The cool thing is that the oxidizing agent is actually hydrogen (I); the oxygen doesn't change oxidation state. Many moderately reactive metals reduce H (I) in situations where they get some help, such as aqueous acids. Magnesium is reactive enough that it can burn in water, but not quite reactive enough to react with cool water. The activation energy needed to start a reaction is more difficult to predict. An H-O bond is about 10% weaker than an O=O double bond. But there is less energy available from the hydrogen-reducing reaction than the oxygen-reducing one. So I'd guess that the autoignition temperature is higher than in air, past 440 C but probably not too much further.

[@forestdenizen6497]

@@jordanrodrigues8265 no it doesn't. The reason that a water stream will not extinguish a large Mg fire is that the metal has enough mass and stored heat to turn the small volume water into steam. If you drop the Mg into a large volume of water it will not continue to burn for long.

[@Mythraen]

@@MrCrackbear The original commenter said "Does hot water steam support a magnesium fire, even without oxygen?" No matter what you think he meant by "hot water steam," it wasn't "hot water." If they meant hot water vapor, and you think that qualifies as "hot water," I challenge you to offer someone some hot water, say to make some tea, and then waft some hot water vapor at them and see how that goes over.

[@joanmm2930]

The ancient way to perform the water decomposition was passing steam through a red hot iron tube which catalysed the reaction. This method was used by Lavoiser to prove the oxigen against the phlogiston theory. It would be nice to watch such reaction.

[@MAINTMAN73]

I used to work at a potato chip and snack food manufacturing company in Topeka Kansas. If I recall correctly they had 460 PSI steam there that was used to heat the potato chip and snack food fryers. Not only will superheated steam get things hot enough to start fires if you give it to chance it will cool down enough about three or four feet from the nozzle and you can actually use it to put a fryer fire out. In this case the hood on the fryer has lowered down and the fryer is filled with steam to both cool and start the fire of oxygen. What's really interesting though it is the vent chimneys on those industrial dryers that are like the size of a trailer house get full of polymerized oil just like a creosote and a chimney. When one of those things lights on fire usually do to a fire in the fryer they burn like a solid-fuel rocket. One-time the fire department had to cut the chimney out of the roof lay it down inside the building and go at it from both ends with fire hoses.

[@karonneevits513]

so , i need a blowtorch to start a fire with steam, got it

[@garethbaus5471]

An ark would also work if you get the steam hot enough.

[@74KU]

Feels like one of those life hack vids tbh..

[@Mythraen]

@@74KU Maybe the lifehack video would be cutting out the steam generator part of the equation? Lifehack: start a fire directly with a blowtorch!

[@bonbonpony]

@@74KU More like the "DIY" videos, in which they start from using a preëxisting thing that they bought in a shop and just put some cardboard box and duct tape around it :q

[@oldcowbb]

@@74KU not enough hot glue

[@MrWoohoo]

I thought you said you’d leave a link to the “how water puts out fire” video in the description?

[@Sandux930]

I got u homie kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXLGmIqYi619ftk

[@Sag3brush]

You could use this to toast the perfect marshmallow

[@_mels_]

Nice video. Maybe you can do a series of videos on ignition in unusual ways and fire in general. (For example, you can show where the hottest place in a fire is, because many people think it's somewhere in the middle because it's much brighter there)

[@_mels_]

Oh, and was that CuO forming when you heated the tube? Or is it just carbon (coal?) particles that settle on a tube?

[@sivalley]

Melody Williams CuO is in fact that ruddy grey-brown color. Most torches run a lean flame (excess oxygen to ensure complete combustion) so they don't deposit carbon soot on what is being heated.

[@riverspohn9375]

This method of making a fire is like hitting 1 bird with 20 stones

[@UnitSe7en]

The point isn't that it's a way to make a fire. Moron.

[@thomaskn1012]

Hi Nile, can you do a video on pyrolysis? Can it be a method to break down plastics without burning it? Would it still release volatile toxic substances and to what extent?

[@ewthmatth]

If the plastic is made entirely of hydrogen and carbon, then all the pyrolysis gasses can be further burned too. And if burned completely, there will only be CO2 and H2O left.

[@bonbonpony]

@@ewthmatth Which is pretty funny, considering how they don't let you burn coal using ecological excuses and CO₂ emissions, but you can burn as much hydrogen, propane or other gases as you wish, and it's "green energy" :J

[@00bean00]

Completely different those aren't sulfur containing compounds that produce hydrogen sulfide and acid rain

[@bonbonpony]

@@00bean00 You don't need sulfides to make acid rain - CO₂ reacts with water as well to make carbonate, which is also acidic. That's how karst works. As for coal, you can also burn it underground and make hydrogen, perfectly environmentally friendly. But they won't tell you that, because they want you to believe that coal is bad and whatever they call "green energy" is good, and then dance in their circus with your "carbon footprint" social credit score.

[@can.slaughter]

0:57 You had the physics wrong this time. By Bernoulli's principle when you have gas flowing at equilibrium, regions of the gas at higher pressure move at lower speed and vice versa. Therefore you are speeding up the vapor not slowing it down.

[@pappy1527]

Brooooo you blew my mind on water vapour and steam

[@michaeldomansky8497]

Nile Green Is People!

[@Kre8-1duH]

😂

[@herculejoestar5809]

Ah god damn you got me with the end video ad again I keep thinking more is coming

[@myentertainment55]

Amazing video! I had no idea you can do that

[@hypnosstratagem1277]

This is an amazing video. Thank you so much.

[@arthurbesnard1536]

Could it be possible to make charcoal using super heated steam and wood ?

[@Slowly_Going_Mad]

Nice video on superheated steam. Normal steam is saturated so forms the aerosol most know. Super heat it then things get more interesting not to mention dangerous precisely because you can't see it.

[@kitaryakysubae3156]

The heat blued copper is such a nice hue or indigo, like gunblue.

[@TheNdoki]

Getting my fireman's ticket the hardest thing for me to wrap my head around was the idea of "dry steam". I mean, my whole life I was told that steam is the same as water vapor, and if you put something in it, that object will get wet. After breaking that falsehood stuff like this doesn't even surprise me anymore.

[@faq_is_love]

Am I the only one surprised that Nile's matches are made of paper? We have only wooden matches here.

[@yeldarb141983]

could you make charcoal this way? I know they use steam to turn regular charcoal into the "activated" variety, but could you just cut out the middle man?

[@BI0628]

My man is an alchemist

[@rajeshkoppa2367]

You should use a thermal camera.

[@keithjurena9319]

Steam is a form of water vapor. When water vapor becomes visible, it is an aerosol, common clouds are a good example. Water vapor is the most predominate greenhouse gas in the Troposphere, thanks to its triatomic molecule and multiple modes of vibration. While carbon dioxide is also a triatomic species, it has only two vibration modes and both are stretch so it's IR spectra is quite narrow.

[@theleeryone]

"thinking quickly, nigel creates fire using only a flask of water, some copper, and a fire"

[@guy4822]

Nile, would it be possible to do a video about why shaking a match / a stick that is on fire puts it out? Thanks :)

[@CalculatedRiskAK]

It is almost certainly due to removing heat. You aren't removing oxygen since you are moving the fire through air, where there is more than enough oxygen gas. You aren't removing fuel because the match/stick is the fuel. The only thing you're doing is rapidly moving the fire through air that is much colder than the fire, dissipating the heat rapidly until it cannot sustain combustion any longer.

[@NeverSnows]

So..... we used a torch to light up a match, in the most inefficient way possible, basically? Loved it.

[@ayoze101]

so thats why when I lower the temperature on the stove it makes more mist

[@yohaijohn]

I just understood why the use steam to make active carbon. Couldn’t grasp the idea before

[@dankhill6851]

also a video on chemicals like chlorine triflouride would be awesome

[@jeeeves]

Steam doesn’t sound like a word anymore 🤣

[@akarshsimha9623]

Would be super cool to coat the paper with oxidizing agent like KMnO₄ and put it in the steam and see if it ignites. Might be dangerous, though.

[@theeraphatsunthornwit6266]

the fire is put out not because the lack of oxygen, but there are too many h2o. Same as co2, it's on the right side of the combustion equation and can stop the chemical reaction.

[@Dong_Harvey]

Me: 'Indeed, with this I shall set fire to the oceans!' BP: 'Thank you kind sir for holding my flagon of ale, now go home and sleep, for tomorrow you work for me!'

[@mathew00]

Thank you! Cool video :)

[@alan2here]

So a lit match could be submerged briefly into a liquid with a different hear capacity than water, and it wouldn't go out or would reignite straight away when removed?

[@sarahmanier6782]

Why point the match downward from above the hot steam!?! Point it up! Up! Oh, Nile. Anyway, thank you for another invaluable education.

[@ghivifahmi4252]

Playing steam games on a potato pc can also start fire too

[@hey7328]

would probably be a bit more efficient to heat the top of the tube

[@bobbobber4810]

In french, steam is vapeur... so vapour is... vapeur. XD

[@inquaanate2393]

Steam is quite visible above 600 C Also terrifying

[@michaels882]

seems like a reliable way to cook marshmallows without burning it since it doesn't have enough oxygen to burn.

[@jesusisalive3227]

This would be really good for producing char cloth.

[@fleshborg]

Would you call that starting the fire with steam?

[@therocinante3443]

Yup, that's exactly what we just watched

[@Tadesan]

Ah, very cool!!!

[@vishalpagey8634]

Using blowtorch fire to generate steam to ignite fire.

[@Huey_AK-47_Brawl_Stars]

'Doesn't matter what medium' What if there's no medium? Try starting a fire in space lmao

[@FirestarterAJ12]

Is there not a chance that in this particular experiment the blowtorch is heating the air inside the tube to the 350-400 degrees and the pressure from the boiling water is moving this hot air which ignites the match?

[@hotsaucebeliever]

I'm a bit confused at the constriction of the copper tube. Wouldn't reducing cross sectional area increase velocity of the steam rather than slowing it down?

[@jamesharding3459]

Only if there was enough pressure to force it out at speed.

[@CursingNinja]

Can you substitute that match with Magnesium, i think it would be a nice demonstration ???

[@denizo9263]

can i copy this for my science fair project?

[@Ninjahat]

So you use a ton of energy on the hot plate and gas burner to ignite a match... yeah, makes sense *d'oh*

[@therainbowwillow4453]

What’s causing the iridescent effect on the tubing?

[@u2ooberboober]

Removing and placing oxides around the flame on the copper.

[@lollololol1753]

"how to start a fire with steam" First you are gonna need some fire to make steam

[@darionmcconaghay8888]

Can you super heat oxygen like this and have explosive combustion at the end?

[@dermeister8787]

But crimping the tubing actually speeds up the steam

[@xedocat]

Real question: can you now roast a marshmallow a perfect brown without burning it

[@schwarzalben88]

Superheated steam, as used in Steam Locomotives.

[@friedaiceborn1663]

I started fire using only a stick, some steam and a fire!

[@LiteralBacon]

I was under the impression that crimping in only one location actually speeds up the air in that location and doesn't affect anywhere else

[@alvaromendivil6263]

Actually, it does affect the part after, that is why he is heating that part with the blowtorch. It takes up energy to crumple the stream of steam, resulting in the decrease of velocity.

[@ze-kami7646]

That a copper rod?why does it change color when exposed to heat?

[@abhisheksinghsolanki3750]

Do it with stream of Oxygen also running through the steam

[@xpndblhero5170]

I'm not a steam engineer or anything but it seems like it would be the steam that's the carrier of the heat from the torch w/ it being such a short system.... 🤔 LoL

[@andrewlorick166]

Why does the copper tubing change color when the flame is applied? Are the electrons in the copper moved to an excited state by the energy from the flame? Or am I thinking in the wrong area?

[@YouCanHasAccount]

+Andrew Lorick It's called patina. Basically a very thin layer of oxide. Similarily to anodization, the color is determined by the thickness of the oxide layer.

[@YouCanHasAccount]

I suspect that the effect seen in the center of the flame is the oxide layer being briefly reduced back to metallic copper by hot unreacted hydrocarbons from the torch.

[@andrewlorick166]

YouCanHasAccount thanks this was really helpful

[@stonent]

+YouCanHasAccount And since the environment is oxygen-starved, it does not change back until the torch is removed.

[@thesilentprofessional7158]

1 likes in 5 years 😭😭

[@alexfigueroa9993]

That’s really high e-steem 🤣💨

[@Boredtube1]

You could also start fire with the blow torch you're using there.... geniuses.

[@hexandcube]

No shit sherlock

[@Skelebobwow420]

gotta love snoopa vision XD april fools ery body

[@dragonfireproductions790]

Firefighter here, this also proves the misconception of "it's the fires that makes fire spread", it's not the fire, the majority comes from the heat of the smoke

[@coop-nr6nm]

Water vapor = steam (steam is the h2o gas right?)

[@KingNast]

Wouldn't you get nearly the same effect if you were just blowing air through the tube? With the torch so close to the opening, it's basically a heat gun

[@bensullivan420]

+KingNast No, because then you're not igniting it with heat provided by heated water vapor. That would just be, "Lighting a match with heat", not "Lighting a match with water". The only gas coming through the copper is water vapor, so it is different because it does not contain oxygen.

[@KingNast]

+Ben Sullivan Ah, so after the air is purged from the flask, it contains pure water vapor. For some reason, I was thinking of water vapor always being water molecules suspended in air. It's weird to think the inside of the flask contains nothing but water molecules when the difference in density is so great between liquid and gas.

[@valsodar6723]

Best chemical ways how to remove dirt from something precious :)

[@sledjenkins5]

why is the tube still shiny and grey right where the flame is? does it not oxidize until it cools?

[@radioactivated]

When you're talking about the water vapor and steam, shouldn't steam be the one that's a suspension of water droplets in air?

[@sivalley]

radioactivated No, dry steam is the gaseous form of water, whereas water vapor is a catch-all for finely divided water droplets in air. Dry steam is devoid of air as well.

[@LetsDrawDragons]

It's actually an aerosol

[@CSGATI]

Steam past 460 C will light paper. With O2

[@cat000]

Fun fact: humid air is less dense than normal air

[@KowboyUSA]

Very interesting video.

[@terrancenorris9992]

If you can get the steam heat up to 451F you can ignite the paper...😁

[@FutureAIDev2015]

Why does the copper change color when you heated it with a torch?

[@FutureAIDev2015]

Wow. Grammar...

[@a3xccy379]

+Matthew Ferrie It oxidizes into various oxides

[@RobertSzasz]

The flame is converting the oxides back to metallic copper. When the flame moves away the hot copper tube oxidizes again almost instantly in the open air.

[@nadipenadinesh6513]

does white phosporus burn in the steam? or at lest what happens does it melt???

[@TheSerotoninMuncher]

Heat from fire, fire from heat

[@ewthmatth]

Umm.. Steam and water vapor are both invisible. Both describe strictly gas phase of water, in a scientific context. (not exactly synonymous, of course). In every day language, though, "steam" and "fog" could both be used as words for visible water condensation in the air.

[@Camroc37]

Didn't know this existed (Nile Blue)

[@alexc8114]

Heat from fire. Fire from heat.

[@GreenBeret1903]

Couldn't you just have any kind of airflow and accomplish the same thing

[@RonJohn63]

Why does the copper turn grey?

[@iamkronix3422]

Video should be titled making fire with fire

[@MawoDuffer]

Is this how they make char coal?

[@Rhodanide]

Then there's this channel. Mate, why'd ya not tell me D:

[@dankhill6851]

are the videos on this channel supposed to get you used to studying things that don't seem interesting,, thats genious, I click on all of your videos!

[@nicholasadamcarsonjr6013]

I thought he sounded different than I noticed the video was made five years ago