EFAP

[@realmofloredor]

It is true what he said, that cameos improve movie quality and performance. Like when Hitler appeared in the Schindler’s List post credits scene and said “I am Adolf Hitler: Commander of the Third Reich! Little known fact: also dope on the mic!”, that was the kind of exposition the general audience needed.

[@Gojeto346]

Bro when he showed up in Rogue One’s fourth mid credits scene and told Vader he needs a helmet to cover up his burnt ass face I clapped harder than ever!!! I clapped because I knew them!!

[@CorporalJenkins1]

Nice ERB reference 👌

[@jonbaxter2254]

Hitler did actually appear in a post-credit cameo in The King's Man lmoa.

[@aesiddoway]

The Last Crusade would have been NOTHING without Hitler’s cameo

[@edmonddantes563]

I always love it when the hero shows up at the end 🗣️🔥

[@grandarkfang_1482]

>Five things Marvel can do to save the MCU >all of it is consumer garbage and nothing to do with the writing You know, the fact that Nando works with Patrick Willems is even further proof of his stupidity.

[@jonbaxter2254]

It is funny how the simplest of answers - good writers - would solve most of Marvel's problems but people refuse to think it can be that simple.

[@MajorSmurf]

@@jonbaxter2254 Well tbf another big thing that we need apart from good writers is a good editorial team who exactly knows what the overall world should look like. Because each new writer for the MCU is creating a massive plot hole somewhere else.

[@MegaSpideyman]

Does he really work with Patrick?

[@MegaSpideyman]

​@@jonbaxter2254Why do you think some refuse to accept that?

[@mrbigglezworth42]

@@MajorSmurf A couple of editors equipped with wading trousers and industrial grade shears would go a long way to making modern Marvel worth watching.

[@samwallaceart288]

When people talk Marvel interconnectivity, I think how Coulson immediately assumes the Asgardian metal-man is Stark-Tech, or how Dr Strange shows up to question why Loki is back on Earth walking freely. Nick Fury meeting Tony at the donut shop to have an actual conversation mid‐movie is more important than a fucking credit zinger.

[@darthdragonborn1552]

🤓Um actually it was Agent Sitwell asking Coulson if it was one of Stark’s and Coulson said idk 🤓

[@nont18411]

The actual patient zero of “heroic character who did bad stuffs but was portrayed as a good guy” was Valkyrie in Thor Ragnarok, not Wanda in Wandavision. And the most underrated character assassination moment in the MCU that nobody talked about was in Falcon and Winter Soldier when Captain Falcon used a Wakandan tech in his new suit to spy on civilians in a rescue mission, the very same technology as Hydra that Sam himself used to fight against in The Winter Soldier.

[@charlesruteal9062]

Everyone was too busy laughing at her falling off a ramp that they didn't register that she sold her own people to slavery (only to become monarch of said people). It's gross when you lay it out like that.

[@Tatian4191]

They’ve been doing it in the comics for years and years. There’s that famous panel of the Red Skull espousing mild populist talking points. He sounded like Gary or Az.

[@nont18411]

@@charlesruteal9062 Thor got drunk and fat without hurting innocent people. Marvel: “Boohoo pathetic ruler. Don’t deserve to be king.” Valkyrie got drunk and sold countless slaves to their deaths for drinking money. Marvel: “Truly inspirational. A proper king for Asgardian.”

[@charlesruteal9062]

@@Tatian4191 "CLEAN YOUR ROOM, CAPTAIN AMERICA!" The Red -Lobster- Skull

[@MegaSpideyman]

I didn't realize he did that, or that there was any contradiction.

[@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917]

The thing about Madame Web being marketed as standalone and not connected to the multiverse is that she's one of the few characters that you literally can't do that with because her powers are literally connected to the multiverse. That's one of her gimmicks. She has psychic powers, sure, but what she's known for is sending Spider-Man to different timelines and dimensions.

[@JulianDoe]

Timestamps 0:00 Good Times 1:20 Ads & KZbin Movies 2:39 Plans 4 2day 5:36 Fringy v Rags: The Lists 13:46 The Video Starts: Marvel Is In Trouble 22:04 One Marvellous Flop 26:00 What This Video Is About 45:00 Number One 1:10:07 Recommendation 1:24:09 Examples 1:34:40 Number Two 1:57:57 Dark Avengers 2:11:19 The Marvels 2:19:40 Number Three 2:27:38 Green Screens 2:29:22 Budgeting 2:37:54 Number Four 2:40:10 What If 2:42:27 Rushed Projects 2:47:30 Pitching 2:52:04 What Audience Wants 3:05:17 Number Five 3:24:57 My Friend Kevin 3:30:00 Nebula 3:47:45 Conclusions 3:49:45 Suicide Squad 4:24:08 Closing

[@MegaSpideyman]

Thanks for this.

[@GreatestGamer9000]

God's work.

[@EthanMallonee]

Thank you

[@JulianDoe]

@@MegaSpideyman no problem

[@JulianDoe]

@@GreatestGamer9000 Thank you

[@mac1991seth]

Well, this one devolved into "here's my pitch for MCU movie" really quick. No wonder the guy put "better writing" off the table, he wanted to pitch his fanfic ideas as a solution and guess what, his writing doesn't go as much as half a step beyond "wouldn't it be cool if...". Meanwhile, I would much rather the MCU ditched all cameos and interconnectivity and only rarely reference other characters in casual conversations. You know, kinda like Hank Pym name drops Howard Stark to dismiss the idea that he needs his help.

[@JohnnyDoorknob]

I don’t know about you, but seeing Kermit The Frog next to Blade would severely enhance my enjoyment

[@harbl99]

Blade: "Some mofos always trying to ice-skate uphill." Kermit: "Oh, that's just Gonzo. Don't mind him. He's working on a new routine." Pepe the Prawn: "Soon I will be the avatar of La Magra, okay?" Blade: "Praaaaaaaaaawn!"

[@samwallaceart288]

"Why sure, let me see about this drink" Vamp Reveler: "Enjoy, little one. . . ! It is made from the marrow of newborn unicorns . . ." ". . . _Eughk. . ._ " Blade: "Best you stay close, Kerm'. The sooner we outta here, the better." "Y- yeah. Mr. Blade, I think I'll take you up on that advice. . . Yeesh. . ."

[@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917]

I honestly think that EFAP is too dismissive of the idea. Muppets interacting with humans is their thing, especially in more serious movies where they aren't supposed to fit. Muppets with superheroes could work, it'd just be in the execution.

[@samwallaceart288]

​@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917Obviously Muppet Avengers would be great. But MCU doesn't deserve the Muppets. Why should the Muppets sully themselves for Marvel's mistakes?

[@rworded]

Yay!

[@geviindovah780]

Nebula is like THE villain of EFAP, just listening to the add makes me realize how many of the creators EFAP covered are there.

[@nand8203]

Like who?

[@owainglyndwrlastprinceofwa2486]

@@nand8203Cinema Wins, Closer Look, Just Write, Nando v Movies, Patrick Willems, Captain Midnight, Film Joy, Hello Future Me, Thomas Flight, Game Makers Toolkit, and Extra Credits. Also you could count Hbomberguy considering Mauler’s Dark Souls 2 videos

[@maxabdulhadi]

it’s the league of evil except instead of evil they have shit media takes

[@Crimsin19937]

Nebula was brought to you by qwibgift!

[@josh11735]

⁠@@nand8203Just to name a few: Nando (obviously) Patrick Willems Cinema Wins Thomas Flight Legal Eagle Extra Credits Just Write PhilosophyTube TheCloserLook And I forgot his name, but as mentioned by Fringy, they covered another guy who’s on there during the anniversary.

[@Necromancer4267]

Studio interference is like CGI. You only notice when it fails.

[@Simon-yp7rv]

Sound design is an even better comparisin imo. The whole point is that you dont realize how right it felt.

[@jmaitland5709]

At the start, Fringy joked about how nobody was saying "Loki is the Andor of marvel" Thing is, cosmonaut variety hour actually has said exactly that

[@jmaitland5709]

@@justincruz5720 It wasn't actually. If I remember right his exact words were: "I've seen people complaining about marvel's TV shows sometimes saying that we need an Andor but for Marvel. Guys, we had an Andor for Marvel, it was Loki, but you guys didn't watch it."

[@FlorkGnubbler]

Let's be honest though. A TV show about Waldorf and Statler ripping into each phase 4 and 5 project would be absolute top tier.

[@MegaSpideyman]

They are rather funny feckers, so I'm not sure it would even have to exclusively be Phases Four and Five.

[@SeanA099]

Statler and Waldorf. I’ve literally never seen them written in the opposite order

[@gloriousmongoose]

“Where’s the purple guy with the chin?” “Didn’t you hear? He got committed!” “Why?” “He snapped!” “Dooohohohohoho!”

[@kingbash6466]

I like how the MCU has come full circle where they become just as overly contrived and saturated as the actual Marvel comics.

[@ParanoidAlaskan]

Writers wanting to do their "own thing" and no authority directing the story.

[@FringeSpectre]

Yup, though the problem with the comics is lack of editorial oversight to make things cohesive, which is an easy fix. The problem with the films is that the entire culture around how the films are made needs to be changed, which isn't easy at all.

[@Gojeto346]

My favorite part was when Nando said to the movies “I don’t need to destroy you, I just need to protect what I love”

[@jonbaxter2254]

Then he Nandos all over the place.

[@lordofthepizzapie9319]

His is the only KZbin video to get a nandillion likes! Truly a video of all time!

[@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917]

Fun fact: Donnie Darko was actually saved by studio interference. The original cut was a mess, so the studio took the director's movie and cleaned it up, turning it into a cult classic. That's why the director's other films have been crap.

[@beachwind7274]

Hey now, Southland Tales (2006) was pure cinema.

[@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917]

@@beachwind7274 Sure it was.

[@panameadeplm]

It's an awful movie, though. TLJ is a "cult classic" too. There's a definitely a cult around it.

[@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917]

​@@panameadeplm I wouldn't call TLJ a cult classic or even a cult film, just an example of if a big studio releases any movie whatsoever some people are going to like it regardless of what the movie even is. Waterworld has a fanbase, and I'm sure that Pluto Nash has a fanbase. Even Morbius and Madame Web have fans. Donnie Darko is a surreal film and it's part of what I think is something of a lost art, that weird b-movie that you'd see in the cinema like One Night At McCool's or something, which is the era where we got Underworld and the parody movies. It's an era I'd like to go back to at some point, honestly.

[@Chugargonfan]

If that’s what saving Donnie darko looks like then damn… it must have been awful

[@HalbdaemonKite]

3:16:03 Fun fact: A Muppet Christmas Charol is among the historical movies with the most accurate period costumes.

[@HectorLopez0217]

Kermit: Tonight’s guest on the Muppet show is Dr.Strange. What’s it like being a hero to millions? Strange: I was going to ask you the same thing

[@666lupine666]

underrated comment.

[@kingleech16]

🥹

[@Hollyclown]

Honestly wholesome

[@sab3redg333]

Yeah this is way too heart warming to not be real. I don't agree with that guy's point number 5 but this would be pretty nice to see

[@mohamedbelkacem9889]

This is too adorable to exist in modern day marvel

[@enkiduthewildman]

I think MauLer is off the mark about Nebula. It's not just alternate patreon or paywall youtube -- it's _curated_ They don't want to deal with youtube's algorithm or Google's advertiser policies. They want to pull users into an ecosystem where only _thier_ videos and _their_ friends and _their_ point of view are allowed. When they say "we can express ourselves" they don't mean youtube is censoring them or not promoting them, they mean youtube allows people like you to watch and respond to them, and they don't like that.

[@holysecret2]

As far as independence from the algorithm is concerned, I think it is a laudable goal. I also think it's good for KZbin to get some competition. That said, based on the type of creators on that service that I'm hearing about, I do not have a high expectation of value of Nebula.

[@Martijn_Steinpatz]

Welcome to the Muppet Cinematic Universe... Or did we never leave?

[@jonbaxter2254]

Shoot, I'd be down for that.

[@kingleech16]

The muppets have better defined characters, superior acting, and are actually fun. Viva Gonzo!

[@scottski02]

The Muppets would actually do decent, affectionate parodies of the MCU unlike . . . whatever the hell She-Hulk was supposed to be

[@NWolc02]

As I was listening to this, a friend of mine sent me a tiktok about the deadpool trailer that fit perfectly with the conversation. What was the clip you ask? Was it a quick prediction about the plot of the movie or the characters involved? Nope, just a list of easter eggs about setup for dr doom and secret wars. Its quite incredible how far the rot has set in. All the talk for months in the marvel community about deadpool, and when the trailer drops they revert right back to the easter eggs and teasers for the next serving of sludge. No interest in the film itself, just interest in the meta and more “content” to be consoomed. Don help us all.

[@powerfist1340]

the offhand idea of a Justin Hammer show would unironically be amazing. Imagine, multiple seasons following Hammer rebuilding his Arms Manufacturing enterprise in a post-blip world. It's yet another opportunity to concretely explore what the hell the state of the world is, especially because He's the one selling weapons to both sides.

[@justincruz5720]

The dude does love Justin Hammer.

[@powerfist1340]

@@justincruz5720 It's less Justin Hammer specifically and more a story centered around a character who, by their nature, will not be invloved in an 'end of the world' situation because they're not a hero. He's here to get his and has no moral compunctions whatsoever.

[@justincruz5720]

@@powerfist1340 I’d watch that too.

[@shanechaisson9383]

Just found yall like a month or two ago. Yall do great things here and you’re pretty funny as well!

[@yetanotherspuart3993]

Welcome to the Toxic Brood. Always celestially EPIC to meet a new Broodling. Beware Goliath. Praise be The Don Blessed be Fred the Cosmic Chicken. May the teachings of Bigideas help you learn the ways of Good Rat and The L O N G. (This is one giant meme and I am insane, so ignore my ramblings)

[@jonbaxter2254]

Man, you have a backlog to work through haha. Enjoy the LOTR vids!

[@charlesruteal9062]

There's a new Massive born every day.

[@MegaSpideyman]

You have a LOT of EFAP to enjoy, so!

[@shanechaisson9383]

@@jonbaxter2254 yeah that’s how I found EFAP.. watched all of those already! And I enjoyed Maulers videos on the sequel trilogy

[@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917]

I noticed EFAP didn't reference that they retconned Harley so that she was in love with Poison Ivy. They have Harley try to get the new Ivy, presented as basically a non-binary pre-teen, to 'remember' their romantic past. This is Arkham Harley and Arkham Ivy. There is NO romantic past between them. Harley did NOT profess her love for Poison Ivy with a big flaming sign saying Harley + Ivy Forever, and it's especially creepy for Harley to try to get this non-binary version of Ivy that looks like a kid to remember her. It comes across as though she's gaslighting the poor kid into a relationship with her... but, why? If the kid does remember everything, what happens then? Is she going to kiss the kid? Is she going to wait until the kid looks like an adult? Nothing non-creepy can happen in that scenario.

[@randomusername3873]

The muppet take is "gimli wants frodo to die" level of genius😍

[@mykr0324]

The whole thing about studios being expected to spend 150 million dollars on a movie by the audience is crazy to me. I remember when I first heard of a 100 million dollar movie and that was absurd. That meant it was going to be an extravaganza of epic shit back in the day. If anything I expect absolute shit when I hear anything over that. Then when I hear a movie costs anything from 10 to 50m I expect better because at least they have to check what the budget is going on and you haven't got useless reshoots for a terrible story going on. When these things hit the 200m mark I'm just fully checked out because I have no faith that they could ever be good.

[@andethidialbubabibub3261]

I don't know the guy they covered here but I already hated his first statement.. "somebody tells you it's not so bad and so you think it's not so bad" Wtf, that's not how a self sufficient brain works

[@Martinmd12-zt7vu]

It’s interesting because it seems like Toho learned this lesson back when they were making Godzilla movies almost every year and realized that making them annually wasn’t a good idea. They were the first to learn that the hard way.

[@dresdenlancer9012]

The reason it's not called "Dark Avengers" is because Dark Avengers are a *different team entirely.*

[@archstanton9073]

Having the Muppets do a crossover like he describes would be kind of fun but it wouldn't save Marvel and it certainly wouldn't be released into theaters. I always love how some of these YT'ers veer off into insanity in the later parts of their videos. His first three points aren't completely terrible then he takes a left turn into Crazy Town.

[@PersonaAmericana]

Disney should be doing muppet remakes of their old movies

[@blackdragoncyrus]

I like how all the KZbin channels mentioned in that Nebula ad have all been covered by EFAP.

[@MegaDarkness5000]

Anyone paying for that is a sucker, that's for sure.

[@MegaSpideyman]

​@MegaDarkness5000 What even is it?

[@MegaDarkness5000]

@@MegaSpideyman To be honest it seems to be a paywalled KZbin/Rumble.

[@AfutureV]

​@@MegaSpideyman basically a paywalled YT with some exclusive content. Creators need to be invited to join, and thus the platform has an unquestionable left-wing bias.

[@MegaSpideyman]

@@AfutureV Ah, that's curious. I can definitely see a problem there.

[@hanskneesun123]

1, No more improvised movies, the success of Thor Ragnarok meant that Taika Waititi got too much free reign on Love and Thunder. 2, No more multiverses, close that can of worms & weld it shut, there's too many narrative 'outs' if you you need to resurrect a character or resolve an issue. 3, Keep the laughs to a minimum, quips at somber or tense moments spoil those moments. 4, Character arcs and believable dialogue requires good writing, hire good writers. 5, No more sky lasers.

[@HerohammerStudios]

1, Give even the slightest shit about the script. 2, No further notes.

[@MundaneThingsBackwards]

I'd actually disagree with 3. The Sopranos was a perfect example of inserting comedy into what would otherwise be a deadly serious drama and character study. The writers were masters of situational humor and black comedy in particular and did it all while staying true to their largely violent and sociopathic cast of characters. It all just has to be done well and the characters themselves have to take their world seriously. On 5 I just disagree because removing sky lasers is about my 1000th suggestion to fix all this crap right after suggesting the cut back on the catering expenses a bit. They've got too many other things to worry about INLUDING hiring better directors as well as writers, forget everyone else explicitly subject to D.I.E. anti-meritocracy requirements. lol

[@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329]

What's the sky laser thing

[@hanskneesun123]

@@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329 That's my bad, they're commonly referred to as giant sky beams (GSB) and there are websites devoted to listing all the movies that use them.

[@SuspishFish]

Those suggestions to save Marvel weren't about improving the stories, they were marketing gimmicks to attract consumers. It sounded so… corporate.

[@jeremyusreevu237]

Here's my 5 things Marvel can to to save the MCU: 1. Either adapt characters that people know and will want to see, or adapt characters that people don't know, but have enough potential to make the transition from the comic to the big screen. 2. Have humor that's actually funny, rather than generic one liners or whatever garbage She Hulk had. 3. When you make a character that's meant to represent a minority group, make them an actual well written character, rather than just "Here's a minority character. Like them or you're a bigot!" 4. No attacking the fans. Just because a fan has a negative criticism of an MCU property doesn't mean they're a raging bigot. So stop treating them like one. Criticism is not harassment. Criticism is not racism. Criticism is gonna happen. Deal with it. 5. Tackle themes in a way that's actually interesting, instead of either barely addressing them, or addressing them in a hamfisted and awful way.

[@Akakiryuushin]

heres the problem with all your solutions, they already think they are doing exactly what you said.

[@aroyals339]

Also no muppets

[@lorecow88]

6. Give ESG the middle finger, fire everyone, hire competent people that are actually interested in doing the work.

[@jeremyusreevu237]

@@aroyals339 Why? Muppets make everything better.

[@jeremyusreevu237]

@lorecow88 Yeah, I could include several more, but since the title was 5 things you could do to dave Marvel, I did 5.

[@tindekappa9047]

The fact that his sugestions are ''throw Wanda in a post credit scene... throw Deadpool into a post credit scene.'' means that he think the movies are fundamentally good and what needs ''fixing'' is marketing. More gimmicks, better gimmicks, bring the old reliable gimmicks back.

[@tutorialslave]

I used to like Nando for his headcanon rewrites. But when he started simping for She-Hulk and calling The Drinker a "jabroni" I was done with him. Not because I felt offended on Drinker's part but rather due to Nando's shill ways and a lack of evidence to back up his stance.

[@MegaSpideyman]

Did he *really* do that?

[@kingleech16]

@@MegaSpideymanOrganized Chaos was thrilled. Always a bad sign.

[@hope-cat4894]

What is a "jabroni"? All I could find was that it was a wrestling term for a loser who makes the other wrestlers look better. If he's calling Drinker a loser, he's not really proving he's the better alternative by saying the Muppets would make the MCU cool again.

[@goodnaturedgamer8181]

Yeah, I haven't watched him in a while, but I did love his Thunderbolts pitch.

[@kingleech16]

@@hope-cat4894 In my home country, it’s a shoe. But I think he’s using it to mean a foolish loser. Which is a shame, because it’s such a happy sounding word, like a greeting in a sci-fi language.

[@QuatrinaVR]

Muppetverse of Madness

[@aaronmueller1560]

I’m always baffled by crappy KZbinrs who get an ego because they reached 100k subs and think they have a huge voice in the industry. Nando has clearly never pitched anything in his life, he doesn’t know how to sell his idea in the slightest, even ignoring the fact that his idea was shit. And yet he has the gall to address “Kevin” directly at the end of it like he expects Feige will see his video and actually consider his pitch seriously. He knows so incredibly little about the industry and it shows

[@Soridan]

But 0.00128% of the population is subscribed to him! That mean's he's a pretty big deal!

[@d-mancat537]

The funny part about nebula allowing creators to express themselves is that they recently kicked of a creator for saying something really controversial

[@bad-people6510]

The original notion for the Thunderbolts (and the one from the comic he shows) was a scheme from Baron Zemo to create a fake superhero team from disguised supervillains and use it as a way of tricking and manipulating the Avengers. But eventually his team began to realize how worthwhile it actually was, and started seeing it as a legitimate path to redemption. So they kicked Zemo's ass and tried to be superheroes in earnest. And there was a lot of problems because they were wanted criminals, and they didn't know how to be good guys but they were trying anyway, and it was quite interesting. But yeah now they've just turned it into the suicide squad, which was interesting... in the 60s.

[@matthewmuir8884]

The goal wasn't to trick or manipulate the Avengers; at that point in the comics, the Avengers were indisposed and presumed dead. The goal was to manipulate the world by filling the void left by the Avengers. You are correct about everything else. The original Thunderbolts was interesting; everything since has been one bad Suicide Squad ripoff after another.

[@Rays326]

I just want them to start over and actually FINISH the primary arcs of the main Avengers. Remember that Hulk’s most important development happened OFF SCREEN so Captain Marvel could be included.

[@annatardlordofderps9181]

Just going over MCU announcements, the third show the Fringoid is thinking is either "What if?" Or "Ironheart." Most likely "What If?" Because Ironheart was delayed. Plus, if you ever want to get a sense of how stupid Redditors can be simply reading the MCU subreddit quickly dispels any assumption of intelligence on that platform. There are unironically people who think releasing 3 shows and 2 movies in a year is "prioritizing quality over quantity." (Echoing Bob Igers claim a year ago and more recent announcements)

[@giulizpaviz6381]

Nando's video is literally is the definition of "don't ask question, just consume the product and be exicted for the next product"

[@andrewromanowski4568]

3:20:18 is the kermit meme. I'm putting this here because it made me laugh and I want everyone else who liked the reaction to be able to find it easily.

[@Dayvow]

That was my meme. 😁 Got another one in. Last time it was the Wins V Sins Puss in boots, the T2 running memes.

[@-Azure.EXE-]

This goobers video was probably created with trying to come up with new ideas that nobody else has said. Everyone had taken every good idea under the sun so he ends with MuppetsxAvengers to save the MCU.

[@Draanor]

Here's how you fix the MCU: - stop forcing a "universe" of characters - stop making movies by committee - focus on making character movies that focus on a single character and their story - reduce the stakes, stop making "the galaxy/timeline is about to end" movies - if you have five successful characters, actually spend time making an characters assemble movie It's insane how Marvel managed to "DC" their own formula lol.

[@MegaSpideyman]

Delighted to see this uploaded so quickly. I was just watching over half of this unlisted like a filthy massive.

[@Mr.Batsu12]

Breaking even or even making a small profit is still a loss. Nobody invests hundreds of millions of dollars into a 2+ year project to break even. They NEED to make hundreds of millions in profit to make it a worth while investment.

[@AimlessSavant]

Investors get paid dividends, which could add anywhere between 5 to 15% more cost to every dollar earned from investors.

[@TheLoos3Goos33]

I hadn't heard that America Chavez was supposed to do the spell in Spiderman. It makes way more sense than Dr. Strange and adds so much to the plot. I don't know if MoM was supposed to come out prior to No Way Home (*It was, citation below) but if it was this could work (all of this potential story is still damaged from Dr. Strange not being at all concerned about the inevitable incursion created from America's mothers being in the wrong universe, but that's a whole other conversation). If we leave off MoM with America being a student we could delve into her character a bit and show her thirst for knowledge (motivated by a desire to fully control her power to not cause harm to those close to her) getting her in more trouble than she's ready for multiple times with increasingly worrisome consequences. Wong would try to curb her thirst for more knowledge by explaining the danger in more complicated magic; at first with a soft hand but we see him get more concerned and serious over time. Imploring America to keep focused on gaining mastery of the basics, "the time for more complicated magic will come"; for an example in media think of Willow and Giles' dynamic in Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Young, talented magic user and the older mentor who has seen what arrogance and overconfidence can bring the user and those close to them) Dr. Strange would likely see himself in her by this point. Perhaps even have him catch her stealing books from the library. Strange could rightly point out, if asked how he caught her, "Because that's how I did it when I was a student.". You could have a fun little "echo" of a montage scene with America using portals to steal from behind Wong's back which ends with Strange grabbing America's hand as she reaches through a portal for a book. Then you can have Spiderman go to the Sanctum but Dr. Strange isn't there. Instead, America was visiting him for some reason (possibly a "progress report" of sorts so Strange can personally develop and oversee her growth) and sees this as an opportunity to prove to herself she is ready. "Stephen isn't here right now... But I can help you.". You could even have America imply she isn't a student to Peter in order to gain his undeserved confidence in her abilities so he will let her do the spell instead of Peter waiting for Strange. Spell goes wrong and we can have our multiple Spiderman story and America can actually learn a lesson, or potentially double down on her character flaws in an attempt to fix her mistake, making things worse in the process. I suppose this probably wouldn't fly with modern Marvel though because this story would have to acknowledge America having a character flaw. *The film's release was shifted again at the end of April 2020, this time to March 25, 2022, after Sony Pictures rescheduled Spider-Man: No Way Home to the November 2021 date. Until then, Waldron had been writing the script expecting Multiverse of Madness to be released before No Way Home.

[@mikzpwnz_3199]

Thing is, they still could of had America Chavez be in No way home and just have it take place after MoM as there's no real reason in universe why can't that be the case. In fact it could work to both films' benefit. My guess is that MoM's production was so chaotic that they didn't want to recall plot points from MoM that could have been cut.

[@TheLoos3Goos33]

@@mikzpwnz_3199 Oh of course. I'm of the opinion that a good writer can make almost anything work. The movies being shifted is frustrating as a writer, but that doesn't mean it can't still succeed through adaptation. Perhaps you may even come up with something better than your original plan.

[@tomjames9681]

Nando avoided the advice of “write better” because I genuinely don’t think he has the first clue about good writing.

[@nmr7203]

He's one of those people who doesn't care about it beyond the superficial adaptation stuff.

[@Coconut-219]

The nandolorian

[@MundaneThingsBackwards]

No I think he does. He just can't admit all the crap he liked almost exclusively for political pandering reasons is actually really really bad. So bad it tanked Marvel's reputation even with the normies.

[@Avarn388]

To think I used to like Nando a lot. I still think some of his older videos are decent( his x men apocalypse rewrite was good) but man this video really demonstrates how terrible his reasonings for the MCU being bad are and I’m convinced folks who still like him don’t actually listen to his words. They play it in the BG while doing other things or they fill in the words. That’s why I love podcasts like EFAP because it encourages something I find is missing: critical thinking. The ability to really pay attention and ask questions. I don’t always agree with the EFAP hosts but nevertheless their insights have helped me a lot with my own writing in questioning every detail or decision I make. So thank you longman and company. Never stop. And to all the massives out there; you are all great.

[@MegaSpideyman]

What's the BG?

[@Avarn388]

@@MegaSpideyman Background, Sorry, I was being lazy.

[@MegaSpideyman]

​@@Avarn388Ah, I see. Thanks. I've just never seen that abbreviation.

[@michaelkindt3288]

The thing about Nebula is that it was clearly made in response to the adpocalypse, made by the people least likely to be affected by it, and we're proven to be the least affected by it. I feel like there's probably a lot that could be dissected there, Especially given the disconnect between why they thought the adpocalypse happened versus the actual reason why it happened.

[@samwallaceart288]

My take on it is it's a secluded breadtube ghetto where the fledgling breadtubers can get some clout and a captive audience from the gaps between the bigger content, and the big breadtubers can feel like part of a community and benevolent mentors without ever running the risk of criticism, dissent, or competition from unaffiliated instigators (e.g. other KZbinrs disagreeing with them). It's a neat little ecosystem. And lame.

[@reptileodinson2750]

Now this is a good EFAP. No 20 people talking over one another.

[@LanceThumping]

Here's how you fix the MCU: 1. Set up ground rules for how the universe works that all projects must adhere to and then stick to it as closely as possible. 2. Continue with large story arcs but just like the universal rules, make sure that they are rock solid before sending off writers half cocked. 3. Hire good writers and give them time to write, pass that script around to established writers that you have already produced successful projects with to make sure that it's following the rules and also is of good quality. 4. Hire directors that can execute the scripts they are given and make sure they have some input on action scenes (supposedly those have been pawned off entirely to others lately) because they need to be cohesive with the rest of the film and a good action scene will support the characters you are building. 5. Hire actors that fit the characters and can bring out their charisma, there have been some characters that have been acted poorly on top of writing. There's other suggestions I'd make: * Run smaller less popular heroes with less established teams (writers, directors, etc.) in standalone projects with much smaller budgets with marketing that doesn't overhype it. You want audiences to dip their toes into the characters instead of weaker characters and films bringing down the rest of the universe. * Successful characters/films from those experiments can get sequels but don't force it ahead of time. Use those movies to identify weaknesses in the staffing to patch and find the strong people to keep on for more projects. * Provide some mechanism for writers across your projects to provide input to each other and can track their stories in time and space. If we want interconnected stories then helping the writers communicate is paramount. Ex. Characters in separate movies following separate plots might be near each other at some point and they could do something as simple as have them passing by in the background in each other's movies at those points as they go on their way. - This could go further. Writers could decide to share a MacGuffin even for smaller films with two separate heroes and separate villains going for the same thing, so we could see hints in one movie of the other movie's events. - No matter what get them talking. Nerdy suggestion: Throw up a git repo for the scripts, then you can see who wrote garbage or gold and everyone can read and check up on things. EDIT: For the interconnected comment after watching more of the commentary. I want to emphasize that that isn't a fix by itself and my suggestion is to increase communication so we have meaningful connections instead of references or throwaway "arrow guy or most powerful magic user on the planet"-type lines (especially since that takes away from a character). So to elaborate an example, maybe a magic star chunk lands on earth, that might be something that more than one villain would want so we could see each hero focused on their villain but with some crossover events within their films. This wouldn't be a hollow reference but something that would happen in real, fleshed out world and would make it seem like not everything is in stasis during someone else's movie.

[@Spaceodin0]

I recently rewatched Muppet Treasure Island Its still fantastic The music is also great High recommendation Fringy

[@o00nemesis00o]

Shiver my timbers Shiver my soul, Yo, ho heave-ho! There are men whose hearts Are as black as coal Yo, ho heave-ho!

[@Coconut-219]

For the complete trifecta, they should rename the next black captain america film AGAIN and this time call it 'Captain America 1984' 😂

[@karol8525]

I imagine "my job here is done" meme from sailor moon fits perfect after that list is presented to Kevin.

[@Invalidcookie-bv4cx]

that man said "post credit scenes" Thats like complaining about the color of icing on a cake made of shit. He missing on what the icing is covering.

[@mudkip4ever]

3:20:20 had me crying with laughter, it's a really, really good meme.

[@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917]

Nebula is probably a pump-and-dump and it frustrates the people involved that the video essayists they hire aren't bringing enough people to make the site as profitable as they want it to be, and aren't exciting enough to get investors to pump it up to be sold for a high price. You have to do better than Patrick Willems, Lindsay Ellis, and Captain Midnight.

[@ftwmiller]

Armor Wars 2: Muppets and Thunder

[@Cats-TM]

1:31:00 Fun fact: in a Deadpool comic the TVA once appeared to take away Sryfe because he was messing with time travel too…of course, that was the proper TVA and not whoever is in the Loki show because they certainly are not the TVA.

[@Agiranto]

"Big Joel! I love Big Joel" - It shows, my dude. It shows.

[@A_Moustached_Sock]

Didnt even know what Nebula was. Reminds me back when Roosterteeth/Achievement Hunter was pushing their website and getting people to pay on there for subscriptions to access their longer videos that used to be just standard and free on youtube. What irked many fans is that they put at the end of the youtube videos that this change was made because fans were complaining about long videos. No fan of Achievement Hunter ever complained about long videos. Many asked for the videos to be longer even. Love it when people just treat fans like idiots and lie to their face when no one would have issue with them just admitting they want or need more money.

[@TheMasterJCL]

Rags saying he can't remember anything about the Gears of War characters is wild and i'm only 8 seconds in.

[@SangheiliSpecOp]

Gears writing has always been weak tho and the last game came out so long ago... 343 gets flak for their treatment of Halo but damn as a gears fan, I don't know what happened with gears :(

[@spendsshanks6050]

@@SangheiliSpecOpNah the issue is Rags has Biden memory

[@SangheiliSpecOp]

@@spendsshanks6050 maybe both

[@Spillow-C]

Gears characters are basically generic badass soldier chuds, which is a not that bad for a game like that, it works, but they are pretty forgettable at the end

[@arcanefury3666]

​@@SangheiliSpecOp i dont know man i think some of the characters in Gears are pretty memorable. I dont really care about the whole hive mind of mutant humans waging war against humanity because Marcus' dad is a procrastinator, but i do care about Cole train and Dom.

[@5omewhiteguy211]

2:50:34 I checked out on marvel a while ago, but would absolutely watch a Justin Hammer TV show in the vein of better call Saul, where this character is trying so hard to turn his life around but opportunities to do bad and profit just keep presenting themselves.

[@TeutonicKnight92]

I would assume the reason not touch armor wars is its gonna to have to deal with who becomes the heir to tony Stark’s mantle.

[@hope-cat4894]

29:39 If anything, the directors have become puppet directors where Disney does everything behind the scenes while slapping the directors' names on the final product. That's why the movies are all starting to look, sound, and feel the same.

[@shamblesmcgee4030]

So to be clear if they release Avengers: into the Muppet-verse with a budget is $149m the MCU is fixed? Dr strange is in the muppet-verse but don't worry there is a scene is of him reading a newspaper at one stage with the headline "THUNDBOLT ROSS TO LEAD A NEW TEAM" and Dr Strange can be like "I'd like to see that!" And America can go,"what? like a dark Avengers?" "Yes." He replies looking down the camera. And we pause the film so we can all preorder our tickets for Thunderbolts: Dark Avengers: out of the muppet-verse.

[@fallous]

Gosh Mauler, didn't we already learn that the movie (game) IS the script (design doc)?!

[@CognitiveGear]

Great movies are watched, not written.

[@fallous]

@@CognitiveGear this is so true... especially when you include The Muppets!

[@MegaDarkness5000]

It's so funny that Nando's suggestions are just consumer brained. Yeah just slap a Avengers name on a bad movie, see what happens.

[@MegaSpideyman]

It definitely wouldn't help. I don't see why it ever would.

[@occultnightingale1106]

The only way to save the MCU is to uncouple it from Disney. Nothing can be done to fix this mess until then.

[@waffledoggo01]

Funniest part of the video is easily him saying that in his Muppet Avengers movie he would cast Miss Piggy as Captain Marvel. lmao

[@Calvinosaur]

2:59:30 That's an actual webcomic. Man-Man, bitten by a radioactive man, gains the powers and proportionate strength of a man.

[@petery6432]

Can you imagine if Nintendo started releasing 3D Zelda games every few years rather than a half decade apart? They would lose their special status, and would absolutely go down in quality as well. That's basically what Nando was suggesting Marvel does with The Avengers.

[@charlesruteal9062]

If From Software decided to adopt the release model of CoD or Pokemon, the game industry will die on the spot.

[@alecstewart2612]

The fact Nando said "The Muppets would save the MCU, let me pitch you a Muppets + Avengers movie" is just...astonishing.

[@justcallmebard]

"one day we'll only speak in references" Just like the Tamarian race from Star Trek.

[@Tatian4191]

The potential takedown of Nando has me watering at the chops. No offense against him personally, but he is Consoomer with a capital Oom.

[@charlesruteal9062]

"Quality cannot be acheived by good writing. It can only be achieved by pandering." -Nando ConsOO( Gunda)M Movies

[@wakerobin9215]

"With a capital Oom" is really funny to me and I may steal it. Cheers :D

[@Tatian4191]

@@wakerobin9215 Consider it public domain, friend.

[@middleman5484]

I like his pitches (mostly) but yeah he does give off heavy Consoomer vibes

[@jeffsoltess4853]

Hearing the muppets stuff made me cry laughing, at just how ridiculous it is but how seriously he is taking it😂😂😂

[@sugartoothYT]

I don't think I could've ever guessed Muppets would turn up in that video nor would I have believed you if you told me. And the segment even just kept going and going and going... I think he just wanted to talk about the Muppets.

[@jeltajink]

Please I want a highlights video called "Doctor Strange in the Muppetverse of Madness pitch" or similar 😂

[@emuman09]

Ooh Muppet Christmas carol is always amazing but for me treasure Island just beats it. Probably cos I saw it more growing up

[@Cats-TM]

2:00:50 And in the MCU Rash Taster (NOT Task Master, he is not in the MCU) is just a plain villain. When in the comics he is an anti-hero, commonly a merc who gets hired out. He is even semi-friends with Deadpool in some comics! AND WHY WAS TRACK TRACKERE NOT ABLE TO TALK IN BLACK WIDOW! HE CAN LITERALLY MIMIC PEOPLE'S VOICES!

[@Hollyclown]

I would have never predicted any of the things on that list. Literally everything he listed are things a company board meeting would list to satisfy investors and not things that actually address or fix the issues.

[@rworded]

I've never heard of such insanity, filming without a script...

[@EpicJasonX9000]

5) - Beak Job 4) - Put Paper Bag Over Ski Mask 3) - Shave Head, Tattoo Cindy Crawford’s Face On Back Of Head, Learn To Walk Backwards 2) - Poke Out Eyes Of Every Man On Earth 1) - Get President To Make Everyday: *Halloween*

[@An_Actual_Rat]

Been a while since the last time I saw a Married with Children reference.

[@saintsupreme]

1:02:02 this is like a reverse monkeys paw. Where the thing you want to have happen doesn’t and is still somehow worse

[@chasehedges6775]

The MCU should have stopped after Infinity War, not Endgame. I stopped after Guardians Of The Galaxy 3.

[@charlesruteal9062]

Strange: "It was the only play we had." Tony: "Really?" *Strange gets dusted* Strange (OFF): "(I had to make sure She-Hulk never happens.)"

[@chasehedges6775]

@@charlesruteal9062 Well said

[@petriew2018]

they could have still done Endgame It just should have hard ended immediately when Tony snapped and left everything up to speculation Which would have been a perfect chance to start new timelines for everyone without all the extra baggage of trying to continue a story that already ended. Comics do this shit all the time, just hit the reset button. Nobody really bats an eye or even cares, because after 10 years sometimes you just need a fresh start, and that's fine. But that would have taken a combination of balls and foresight, both of which Disney has been systematically purging from the company for a long time now.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@petriew2018 Well said. That would have been perfect but Modern Disneys gonna do what Modern Disney always does, I guess

[@Arphemius]

Infinity War wasn't good either.

[@npc042]

Fun fact about The Volume: lots of the shots done on it are comp’d out anyways just like a green screen due to poor planning. What a waste.

[@cameronjames3499]

This guy seems to have cause and effect reversed. I could almost see him saying they should hire people to clap in the cinema at the end of the movie, and that'll magically make the movie great since that's what happens when a film is good. (It's like "The Wizard" from The Wizard of Oz who gives out a University Diploma or Medal to magically make someone smart or brave, since those are items that are possessed by such people).

[@harvey9588]

at around 2:20:35 mauler seems to make a point of 10 movies at 10 million. Now i understand the idea that if 1 movie fails you lose at most 10 million* But would that not also make brand damage as well ? Since the case of Mr.blum is that none of the indie movies are connected and can be memory holed if one is a stinker. But I have to imagine that for marvel it might not be the best since it's all about being interconnected, so if a movie is MoM levels of bad, and it does not have it's(MoM) flashiness, it might damage the 9 other movies. I feel like this solution can work only if you have good writing as well (a point mauler makes as well)

[@HerohammerStudios]

Yeah, it's always been weird how much he loves this argument. He constantly says the same for Star Wars, but when it happens (Boba Fett, Andor, Ahsoka) he says it's awful when it's seemingly doing the exact thing he wants - throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks

[@slaapt]

Considering The Eternals, why didn't they start MoM with Strange and people from Stark Tech analyzing the Eternal? Then he could have gone been fetched by Wong to go to the wedding, because he was studying stuff so which he has been established as getting distracted by. It would show the world knows it is there and that they are trying to figure stuff out.

[@shok24199]

The Thunderbolts should just be called the "The Losers Bracket".

[@HouYi-b6g]

So the 5 ways to save marvel are not the usual get better scripts or improve the the quality of the films but instead 1: Put the Avengers or another popular hero's name onto it because name brand will drive sales alone and make it instantly an 8/10. Cause who knows who the thunderbolts are? With a title like that it'll be a 2/10 film, but if we name it "The Dark Avengers Black Widow - Thunderbolts" now it'll be 10/10 film and save the MCU. 2: Make more cameos and references in the films because more cameos and recognition will make the film an instant masterpiece on the likes of The Godfather or Citizen Kane. 3: Somehow find a way to cut the budgets of superhero media but only say that it'll be hard to do so because superhero media are automatically required to have expensive budgets because of the genre they are and it makes them awesome because of the high budget. 4: Drop Armor Wars to enforce a 3 movie per year rule because Armor Wars will be a 4th marvel in the year and because of my newly made up rule it will interfer with the release of the other Marvel movies. So I'll instead suggest another idea to salvage it into a tv show. 5: Crossover with the muppets because i like the muppets and the muppets are popular and if they are popular and making money, throwing them into marvel into it will save the mcu and being lots of money guaranteed.

[@mattherron173]

So KZbin wants to start Every Frame an Ad?

[@princestarfy4098]

The lack of time given to the creators is the main problem with the MCU right now, they aren’t letting the writers finish writing before they start filming they aren’t letting the director finish filming before animating, they aren’t letting the animators finish before editing and they aren’t letting any of them finish before fucking advertising it. To the point where the director and actors in the marketing press tour get shit wrong because they haven’t even made the movie yet. The writing for modern MCU movies do need to get better, part of that is because they don’t have enough time for everything, they don’t have enough time to write a good script let alone figure out how to tie it into the overarching universe. Plus the people they are hiring don’t give a shit about the IP! They don’t want to make super hero movies they want to bend and break the IP into what they want. WandaVision’s concept is amazing, it doesn’t work with a super hero formula. You got this first half that is amazing horror triller drama, then they actually have to fill their quota so they copy and paste basic bitch super hero formula and it clashes. What you need is good writers who respect the IP. Who know what characters in Marvel can do a Horror Triller Drama and which characters can’t. And yes hire better writers, why the fuck are we hiring writers with minor Rick and Morty credits as lead writers? Why is so many MCU movie’s head writers have no flims under their belt? Ant man 3 this is my first film I’ve ever written IT SHOWS!!!! This is a AAA company with a AAA IP why are they hiring indie writers!?!? Use the characters I like, don’t make me wait for the post credit scene, connect the universe with the characters, sure you can ask them to do all that, none of that would fix the MCU. The only thing that could fix the MCU is quality creators and the time to create good content.

[@HalbdaemonKite]

3:13:50 They are so good at this that they regularly have problems with interviewers holding the microphone to the puppet instead of the human talking.

[@jackchipper7458]

The woke up yesterday, sweating after I saw a dream where the MCU and DCEU, don’t exist. Thank God it was just a nightmare 😢😖

[@ChaosLierLen]

To save the MCU they need to cast Amouranth as a Wanda variant, and I'm not kidding.

[@jonbaxter2254]

And charge $5 to $20 for the privilege?

[@RobTheDoodler]

@@jonbaxter2254Make those paypigs add to Disney’s bottom line.

[@nhagan001]

You know, I want to declare you’re statement ridiculous… But it took Star Wars fans seeing Lizo and Jack Black to realize “hey, maybe this is crap?” So let’s go a step further and make XQC a villain for a season of the live action show! Any of em! Just pick 2! You can say “multiverse crap” as to why he is in two shows!

[@Gingerrhino]

Moving from CGI back to plastic props

[@hope-cat4894]

No, we need the Toxic Brood to be villains in the MCU, like how Doomcock was in She-Hulk. That was a golden idea!

[@maydaymemer4660]

The thing that weirds me out so much with these comic book movie fans is how little they understand character or plot because theyve only ever really watched pop culture action movies

[@giulizpaviz6381]

they probably never read the original comics (like the new Marvel writers probably)

[@maydaymemer4660]

@@giulizpaviz6381not to be an alan moore about this but even the original comic characters werent all that complex and were written to have you always root for them. So when a movie like joker comes out and has a somewhat interpretive morality comic book movie and star wars fans dont even get it. Not even dislike it they just dont get it Heck Thanos still stumps the modern geek because they dont seem to get what his motivation is. They think he did the snap because he legitimately thought it would work and to an extent he did but the real motivation was to prove himself right So that’s my problem with this

[@Benzodrewd]

He’s called Nando v. Movies because he actively combats the idea of coherent filmmaking.