Everything In The Modern World Has A Catch, Including These Basic Chevy Cylinder Heads

[@michaellehmann2803]

You’re totally overthinking it Tony. When they sell the heads already assembled, they have to choose a spring pressure. Most of the aftermarket heads, and especially the cheaper ones, tend to err on the weaker side for the spring pressure since too weak a spring will leave power and RPM on the table, but too heavy can wipe out a cam. But they also don’t want someone complaining that they put a .700” lift solid roller cam in and the valves are floating at 4500rpm, so they just slap that sticker on there. In reality, if you ran a mild roller cam, it would probably be fine, but maybe less than optimal. Just pretend they are stock springs in the iron heads, and if you would change those for the cam you want to run, then change them, but if you would run a cam with stock springs, you can run it with those as well.

[@MickyC0601]

That is absolutely CORRECT !!!

[@milomanx6531]

I was going to leave a comment similar to yours. Now, I only have to 100 percent agree. It's only a stock type spring installed. If you going full out, change the springs. P.S. The stock springs work great with a hydraulic roller mild cam with .510" lift. I've reduced the seat pressures on the springs to 110lbs and can rev to 6,000 without valve float.

[@taniaschiller9823]

100% awesome answer. I’m struggling to understand his logic… Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Solid Flat Tappet, HydraulicRoller and Solid Roller all run a different style of spring. In my mind this is first year out of school car guy stuff.

[@elliottbutts153]

👆this, 👍🏻

[@essemque]

Exactly. The same heads come preassembled with two different spring weights, the lower one spec'd for flat tappet lifters and the higher one for rollers. This is for people like me who are fairly new to all this and want some assurance it will work out-of-the-box with our setup. If you actually know what you're doing, read off the spring specs and run whatever cam you want. There's nothing more to it than that.

[@Mike-Olds-1]

When buying auto parts today one is forced to try to determine which parts suck the least and hope for the best.

[@m1a1hm]

That is so true.

[@jeepsblackpowderandlights4305]

Thumbs up 10000x

[@KnuckleHeadGarage27]

Yup 100%

[@drflex8549]

the real gotcha is... those jegs heads are speedmaster....

[@Shade_tree_garage01]

thats okay, speedmaster makes a decent head casting

[@doomman700]

They are decent heads regardless. Hand blend and port matched, I wouldn’t run their springs locks or retainers so not sure why he is complaining

[@damarapoledna3636]

How many times have you had your non standard hardware back out in use because it didn't quite match the original equipment specs? Or how often have you had to modify your aftermarket part? This has always been a thing. My father warned me about this fifty years ago.

[@danlaperuta6916]

I thought Jegs bought out Canton heads and that what those are?

[@brettstrauss8562]

Used to be Pro Filers. Not anymore sadly

[@495ciGTO]

I was an auto machinist for 19 years from 1982-2001 . We always used a different spring rate for hydraulic flat tappet vs solid. The solid had more closed and open pressure for turning higher rpm's. I still build engines today and I always set up the heads with the springs for the cam application. I agree the gotcha factor is in everything. I enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work.

[@c103110a]

@495ciGTO I learned that for the first time when switching from a hydraulic FT cam to a Hydraulic roller. I had to switch springs and pushrod length, cam button, etc. while the engine was in the car. I couldn't use a pneumatic tool to keep the valves cloase, due to tight packaging, so I used the "rope" hack and rolled the engine over to keep the valves closed. As a 58 year old, I had to use my brain to figure these things out for the first time. Thank GOD for youTube. Something we didn't have when I was young....

[@495ciGTO]

@@c103110a I'm old school too. 63 years old. I had to do the same thing. I call it the school of hard knocks. I see the TN Flag on your post. What part are you in? I live in middle TN north of Nashville.

[@LongIslandMopars]

Merkel Racing built my stock 273 and matched a set of springs for my solid Isky E-4 cam. The 340 springs I bought were way too stiff.

[@supersportimpalass]

I think this guy needs to swallow a bottle of prozac every morning when he wakes up. The way he talks you would swear he hasn’t ever worked on an engine in his life. Maybe roller motors with higher spring pressures are too new of a concept for the old fart.

[@jesselewis4833]

Absolutely. Anytime i messed with cam changes or a new motor i bought the springs that are recomended for that cam. Ive never bought just a cam without springs too. And i ALWAYS had the matching lifters with it.

[@MittenMadeMuscle.]

Jegs sells that same head with a stiffer spring. Hydraulic flat tappet cams usually use lower rate spring pressures.

[@genehart261]

Yeah, seems like a lot of boo-hoo over nothing

[@davidmitchell7183]

It gives a maximum valve lift of .560" in the specs. The Jeggs "hydraulic roller" BBC head has a .750" max lift.

[@MarcusSandoval-kx2th]

Yep 👍

[@TheCyberMantis]

Lower installed spring pressure so it doesn't collapse the hydraulic lifters. Hydraulic cams are only good to 6,500 rpm's anyway.

[@swissarmychainsawadams9541]

So what was the problem? I'm not listening to a 20 min rant and topic jumping. I gots things to do!

[@jseal21]

The rating for "hydraulic flat tappet" is because they use the cheapest springs available at the time they need to resupply. There is a high likelihood that of those 16 springs you have, there is more than one seat pressure and spring rate. They just buy whatever is in the "range" of what a HFT cam needs. Around 100-120 seat and 180-230 max lift. The cheaper the better. If it were "hydraulic roller" spring they'd up the seat to around 160-180 and 260-285 over the nose. It's a range because they buy from so many different vendors and whatever is cheapest in that range.

[@moparmaniac67]

5 years ago I bought a set of eddy heads for my small block Mopar. While I was searching, I noticed the had heads were listed specifically for solid roller, solid flat tappet, hydraulic flat tappet and hydraulic roller. The only difference I noticed between them all was the valve spring pressure. I already had a cam picked out, and the cam card specified what spring pressures to run. I based by head purchase off the cam card, not what was advertised for the head. Valve springs are purchased based on camshaft choice. If you’re going to buy complete heads, it only makes sense that you’d validate those springs are compatible with the cam you’re going to use. These manufactures should just offer the head bare or loaded, and if you’re going loaded then choose your spring. Eddy heads do list the max lift and spring pressures.

[@Shade_tree_garage01]

lower spring pressures tony, there's a huge difference between a Hydraulic flat tappet and roller cam oriented spring, you should know this tony...

[@joelgeiser675]

He does, you missed the point

[@asherdie]

​@@joelgeiser675what's the point? Consumers have gotten dumb enough they don't know these things, so the manufacturer has to label.

[@Shade_tree_garage01]

@@joelgeiser675 He DoEs yOu MiSsEd ThE pOiNt, Okay Mr.Imissedthepoint, what was his point????

[@mikegillam1000]

Springs rated for hydraulic flat tappets vs hydraulic rollers and solid rollers are pretty common in the small block Chevy world. I didn’t realize it wasn’t the same for mopars. It’s just different spring specs. Smaller diameter single springs or springs with just a damper that have lower seat pressures and aren’t capable of supporting much valve lift are used for hydraulic flat tappets. Rollers lifters are usually a little heavier and have more lift and sharper ramps so they get larger diameter dual springs or beehives that allow for more valve lift and have higher spring pressures

[@DeliriumElectric]

You get bonus points for saying Edelbrock correctly. So many say it ElderBrock. They do look like nice heads. But yeah, new out the box is supposed to make life easier but it isn't always the case.

[@Skyler_Hagen]

First thing I would do here is just call JEGS and ask. They’ve always been right there to answer questions when I had them, or they’d redirect you to their supplier’s tech support.

[@doublebackagain4311]

Came here to post exactly this. Just get the mfr phone number from JEGS, call them & talk to a tech. 15 minutes & mystery solved. Tony's head is a complicated place.

[@TorrinTT]

I built my 67 Impala's 396 in December 2020 and the catalog clearly stated then which Edelbrock Performer RPM heads were needed for roller vs. tappet engine

[@MarcusSandoval-kx2th]

Oh shit really?? My Edelbrock didn't have options

[@alan501superdart3]

A hydraulic flat taped valve spring is usually less spring pressure due to the lifter plunger inside the lifter mostly use anywhere from a . 500 to .550 valve lift , and that’s why they label it for a hydraulic flat taped cam

[@MarcusSandoval-kx2th]

Yep 👍

[@EffequalsMA]

Totally, everything is gotcha. This is why I have been recycling hot rod or OEM parts from the 80s and 90s on my build. For example, a set of used TW heads from that period are built like a brick shithouse and beaten hard by who knows how many owners? I didn't even have to work them over, they were flat, held water forever, springs all good, all the valves looked great, totally no recession, zero problems apparent. Slapped 'em on untouched with used Comp Cams full rollers and hardened pushrods from the same setup. Checked the pattern on the valve tip, Works 100% fine.

[@hotrodray6802]

Yes, I prefer junk yard Motorcraft parts than new chinesium. At least the car was running when it crashed. And you can get $200 worth of parts for $ 20.. 👍👍👍😎

[@yurimodin7333]

@@hotrodray6802 😆

[@KNR6292]

I like the thought process!

[@elmerfudpucker3204]

I'm with you on the Speedmaster (ProComp) stuff. I've been doing this for almost 50 years now, and the product that ate my lunch the most are a set of SBF heads and single plane intake for a 351w. I ordered a set for a friend that was tight on their budget and these 195 CNC heads were affordable. I unboxed them, got to looking into them, and the more I looked, the more I found. Installed height of the valves at the top of the stems were all over the place, the ports looked awful for a CNC job, the pushrod geometry to the studs and valve stems was as bad as the installed height, and a ton more stuff. I took a ton of pics, called the place, and they had awful customer service, trying to dismiss my finds and convince me they were good to run. They finally had me send them back and they sent me replacements, that had just as much wrong as the first set. They wouldn't do anything more, and we were stuck with them. I felt bad for my customer friend, and I worked for weeks on them to make them minimally workable. Then I assembled the engine and the intake was trash as well. Ended up welding on the carb flange and facing it to seal, and having to work on port matching and the china walls to get it going. NEVER use Speedmaster junk.

[@unitfour3097]

Yeah, buyer beware. Bought a set of used Stage IV Mopar heads once. They sat on the shelf for years until I had something to put them on. Paid up for some performance milling and valve parts. Installed them and had a fitment problem with the intake manifold. Turns out somewhere along the way they were slightly angled decked. Now they are back on the shelf. Enjoy your rants Uncle Tony!

[@MartinRanger65]

When I built my high Rev 289 I got trick flow, matching R11 CNC heads, 595lift roller cam and matching Wiseco pistons, With Eagle rods, etc., I see the high side of 7200 RPM ❤

[@Monaco-BuilditFixitDriveitEver]

I turn my rig to 4900.

[@jbqc1548]

I'm watching this whilst i'm checking my cam lobes like you showed us a couple weeks ago.. so far so good! Thanks Uncle T..

[@OriginalSphincter]

I always just purchased the springs recommended by the cam manufacturer, even if the heads came with random springs. The cost of valve springs is easier than a fresh tear down. I wouldn't be surprised to find out some of the budget heads are just using the lowest cost available springs, and yeah looks great when pulled out of the box.

[@Kevin-r6t]

What's not to understand. Roller cams have a more aggressive ramp profile and require different spring rate and pressures.

[@UncleTonysGarage]

You can have a very aggressive flat tappet cam, and you can have a very mild roller. Are you choosing springs based on the type of lifter or the profile of the lobe?

[@Hillbillygarage1215]

​@UncleTonysGarage both have to be considered. Roller lifters are heavier and roller cam lobes are more aggressive, so at higher RPM's the mass and velocity needs a higher spring rate to keep the lifter in contact with the lobe.

[@BBBILLY86]

​@@Hillbillygarage1215100% best answer to this video.

[@ptbelttactics]

@@UncleTonysGarage just take a look at the lobes of flat tappet and roller cams with the same duration and lift specs. The flat tappet camshaft is going to look way more aggressive, but the roller needs more spring pressure to keep it from lofting at high RPM. I'm going to pick a spring pressure based on lifter and duration. Just look a ProStock where the camshafts have 285 degrees of duration @ 0.050" and an open spring pressure in excess of 1,000#.

[@ptbelttactics]

@@Hillbillygarage1215 I agree with you completely, but the physical lobes are much more aggressive on a flat tappet cam. Hydraulic roller cam lobes are much more oval. If you have 2 roller camshafts for the same application and want to know which is more aggressive, look at the base circle. The one with more ground out of the base circle is going to be the more aggressive one.

[@ThePeavey23]

Bought a set of cheap aluminum sbf heads years ago for my f150 those things always amazed me for the price , I did do comp springs before I even installed them with comp cam . Never a problem even with a few valve floats every now and again

[@keithfilkins2043]

You are right Tony, the world we are from is unfortunately gone!

[@sinister76]

Its mainly about spring pressure. Both at the seat and open over the nose of the cam. You pair a really stout high open pressure spring intended for an aggressive solid roller cam on a rinky dink hyd flat tappet camshaft and it'll wipe the cam out on intial break in. Comp cams gives the part number of the recommended springs and what their pressure is for the camshaft. They have to match within plus or minus 10-20psi of open and seat pressure. Ive bought several sets of assembled heads knowing full well that im going to change the springs to match my cam as soon as i get the heads.

[@dalerobinson2986]

Yes the ramp rate CAN affect and DOES affect the spring rate you use. There’s some mild flat tappet cams that need really good springs because of super aggressive ramps.. which can be more aggressive than a race solid roller. It’s the intensity

[@walkingman9171]

Yes exactly, you win a cookie.

[@burthenry7740]

For the last few years my motto has been "Everything is an ordeal !" Maybe it's because with age and experience you are more aware of what all can go wrong.😁

[@JohnChrysostom101]

No its because things aren't done the right way anymore

[@SmittySmithsonite]

@@JohnChrysostom101AMEN!

[@will7its]

No its Chyna.........🙆

[@davidreed3165]

You’re right friend. Everything is an ordeal, not just car stuff, everything. It feels like we’re taking crazy pills.

[@thomascampbell5633]

@@davidreed3165 lol, so true.

[@brandoncocola1322]

I noticed the heads sold each as well. As others have mentioned they usually have higher spring pressure for roller. I think the companies tried to make it simple for the every day person by calling them hydraulic flat tappet or roller. Also sometimes they sell them with the cam and its matched up. Since the springs are not a different color it's the only way to tell them apart.

[@MatthewScur]

Tony, I love your reasoning and desire to go down a rabbit hole for the answer. I agree with some of the other comments though and think that it probably has to do with spring rates. I will say that part of the reason that there are so many gotchas nowadays has to do with how much the field has advanced. Back when I started to hot rod cars (mid 90's), there was a healthy community surrounding the field, but now you can literally scan your engine, go into a piece of software and design your own head, send the file to a company for flow analysis, and have the cylinder head printed out of metal powder, to include choosing the material type (like inconel, an aerospace grade metal), all from the comfort of your couch. I agree that there are alot of gotchas now, but there are also possibilities that exist today that 20 years ago nobody would have even dreamed of. We are living in perhaps the last golden age of automobiles, and are able to use new advances in materials technology, computer modeling, and AI assisted research to allow us to create whatever our heart desires. Enjoy this time, because I fear that the generations coming up will never have the opportunity to work with their hands like many of us have.

[@OUTPOST-31]

I’d definitely do some more research on the seats and what not. Curious what the valve runout and trueness of the castings are. No big fan of aluminum heads for a daily driver especially

[@davidkeeton6716]

Before a purchased set of completed heads are installed, the springs must be removed and pressures checked at seat height and installed height. Yes this involves some tools, test instruments and possibly a press. And an assortment of shims in case installed heights need adjustments.

[@1958johndeere620]

Ramp of cam, and seat pressure. Heard it years ago on a few channels.

[@joelopez4913]

What he is trying to say is you can't just buy something and bolt it on anymore , not even if it is stock parts. You have to buy a part for a part for a part . When you grow up in this era you don't realize you're being ripped off. But 20 years ago it wasn't so complicated to build or upgrade an engine.

[@SmittySmithsonite]

Exactly! I used to enjoy playing with engines. This type of crap takes the fun right out of it. I end up throwing tools across the shop instead of bolting things together like the way it used to be! Every single damned thing today has to be effing complicated!!🤬

[@TC-yx2ss]

While I was watching this video I could hear my neighbour throwing things in his backyard whilst working on his car yelling "Why does everything have to be so Fkn hard to work on."😅

[@SmittySmithsonite]

@ you may have been hearing me … over here in Massachusetts, USA! 🤣

[@TC-yx2ss]

@@SmittySmithsonite Man you're loud I could hear you in Oz.😄

[@SmittySmithsonite]

@@TC-yx2ss That's how much I hate working on modern automobiles! 😂🤣😂

[@alexgillies4183]

I remember years ago when I bought my first set of AFR 165 heads and they came with "flat-tappet" springs with an optional "roller-spring" upgrade. I had chosen a moderate roller cam that the heads would complement (and in fact AFR had a dyno chart for almost the same specs cam with those heads) and when I looked at the recommended valve-spring pressures from Crane, the springs that came with the heads were woefully under-sprung. They would only have worked for a very mild roller cam and not even a very big flat-tappet; sort of surprising for a top-of-the-line CNC ported head that would be expected to have a decent-sized cam run with it! My newest AFR 185 heads came with "hydraulic roller" valve-springs that match up nicely with my rather bigger roller-cam so maybe AFR got a few complaints!

[@bradnunn9127]

I worked for a place that sold this type of head. Most of ours came in bare. Then he used the cheapest parts he could find to complete them. I have seen the valve seat fall out of them.

[@Haffschlappe]

Happend to Jaguar in most V12 too....india Made crap

[@ate71622]

I’ve seen AFR and Trickflow drop valve seats.

[@Foxtrot1967]

I feel ya brother. You explained it well. Too makes things worse these days, corporations intentionally pull BS moves in addition to outrageous prices, poor quality and it pisses me off too.

[@dietervaloczky6051]

I bought Eddy 110 rpm heads for flat tappet, had to learn about seat material, seats where at 135, set it up for 150 for my Comp Xtreme cam, had to debur the stud holes in the intake, clean up one head on the intake port and lap all the valves, the bolt kit had short bolts at each dowl and had to buy longer ones after stripping two block holes, got to pay attention to details nowadays.

[@marksomero7710]

I worked in a foundry/machine shop in Michigan, and we made valve seats for everything from 4 cylinder Lycoming aircraft engines to EMD locomotive engines. PM (powdered metal) seats offer HUGE cost savings to engine manufacturers...which is never passed on to end consumer. Bean counters...it is ALL about cost...PM can't take the strain like cost or wrought materials, but it's cheaper...

[@ferdinandcuevas8457]

The point is to make sure that the springs are compatible with Your cam selection no matter which head manufacturer you use ‼️ Using the wrong springs can & will leave power behind also make sure You don't get/have any coil binding either . Great content Please keep Us updated , Thank You 🇺🇸🇵🇷🦊👍

[@vertexjeff4318]

Aftermarket heads from most manufacturers have been advertised this way for quite a while. From the mfg standpoint, it is a way to get people into the ballpark of what they need easily. If you are building a serious engine, you are going to specify and measure springs more precisely.

[@andretorben9995]

Glad to hear you say "dont buy procomp", yes indeed they are rubbish. not just their heads but everything they sell.

[@michaelgregorich3774]

The heads are just simplifying the process of getting the correct spring pressure for whatever style cam. Not sure what the problem is here..

[@Born_Stellar]

shouldn't they just list spring pressure then?

[@moparmaniac67]

5 years ago I bought a set of eddy heads for my small block Mopar. While I was searching, I noticed the had heads were listed specifically for solid roller, solid flat tappet, hydraulic flat tappet and hydraulic roller. The only difference I noticed between them all was the valve spring pressure. I already had a cam picked out, and the cam card specified what spring pressures to run. I based by head purchase off the cam card, not what was advertised for the head. Valve springs are purchased based on camshaft choice. If you’re going to buy complete heads, it only makes sense that you’d validate those springs are compatible with the cam you’re going to use. These manufactures should just offer the head bare or loaded, and if you’re going loaded then choose your spring

[@masterrated7917]

Tony I know you said stay away from speedmaster but if my eye spy is on point did I see PCE etched in the aluminum? If so then those are Procom/speedmaster heads reboxed by jegs. Damn they struck again.

[@Anthony-vq1wn]

The spring pressure rating is specific for a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft that were installed on that set of heads.

[@maryannmoran-smyth3453]

As an engine builder for many years, I prefer to pick all the parts that are specific to my needs because sometimes the parts that come along with the cylinder head or not right and when it comes to the big time, you want all the best parts for the best resultsanyway good show, bro keep on rocking

[@douglashewitt5064]

My work truck burned a valve every five years consistently. After three valve grinds, my new mechanic told me he was going to grind them differently at a special angle. I had to pull them at six years because of an engine problem and found them perfect, unburned. Amazing.

[@chrisallmond6867]

Powdered metal seats are used in every high volume aluminum head today. They provide a really good combination of cost and wear resistance, especially the premium blends.

[@jchavins]

These heads are probably equivelent to OEM heads used on the 396/427/454 "PASS" heads used prior to the compression drop in 1972. Cam kits in those days included springs and retainers along with the cam and lifters even on the hydraulic street cams referred to as 3/4 cams....Crane, Crower, Isky, Racer Brown etc all sold the complete kits necessary to prevent valve float like stock heads....(probably before your time...lol)

[@larryreagan6936]

I agree with you U.T there's always a catch... honestly on a street engine I wouldn't have even went with an aluminum head, you can pick up a set LS6 454 heads fairly cheap on marketplace that have plenty of flow, but on a street engine who needs massive flow anyways... it's sad to say but a neon SRT-4 with a 0-60 time of 5.4 seconds and a 1/4 mile time of 13.9 and gets 22 mpg. would beat a big block nowadays unless it's a really aggressive build like an LS6 which was around 13.5 second 1/4 mile times and got between 7 and 10 mpg respectively. Great video as always!

[@jacquelinechellis4036]

Maybe its an rpm thing the solid flat cam is often used for higher rpms to avoid float and those springs are mild. Also the powdered seat might still be pretty good. The powdered metal rods are tough. I got a set of sbc brodix street heads for 1000 for two. Gotta get good deals. Have a good one

[@GregMiller-q2c]

Hello, enjoy your channel and have learned a lot. In reference to hydraulic flat tappet only- I think it is in the max lift the springs are capable of handling. The roller cams usually have a higher lift and would require different springs.

[@craigjones2878]

The springs aren’t a big deal as you can tailor those to suit your cam, what concerns me is the powdered metal valve inserts that may wear prematurely due to the more aggressive cam profile.

[@Joebauers2505]

Best part of this, any head you buy in the lower bracket price is all the same speedmaster casting. Even Afr are the same the only difference is the hardware included.

[@Haffschlappe]

Buy brodix

[@stevenbean9706]

speed master heads ! they had a black friday deal on some bb mopar heads complete for 1000.00 not sure id run em on a lawn mower but they are an aluminum alternative

[@hankclingingsmith8707]

Roller spring pressure will eat a flat tappet cam

[@UncleTonysGarage]

At least you didn't make a blanket statement

[@johnkelly8525]

Wow you answered one ,wonders will never cease​@@UncleTonysGarage

[@A_friend_of_Aristotle]

This is true of new cars, too. Except it's a subscription "gotcha" for Carplay, Maps, etc. Oh, and new cars no longer use ignition keys. Everything's on a fob...that costs you $1200 if you lose it and needs to be programmed. *GOTCHA!*

[@RobsNeighbor]

Very well said! Everything comes with a catch! I cant even change oil as a Master L1 Tech after 25 years something will be wrong.

[@tydodge]

They share the same lifter diameter as a small block if I remember 0.842 . Small blocks are having trouble wiping the lobes and the spring rates are higher in a big Chevy. There is a lifter bore grooving tool they sell someplace to get more oil on the cam. One of the first roller cam conversions done in the shop I worked at was a big block wiping flat tappet cam lobes. The customer was very happy with the performance of the roller cam. Be interesting to see what the spring rates are on those heads.

[@thomasharvanek2411]

Tfs sbf heads has had different part numbers for roller or flat fir years, both different spring pressure and different retainer/ keeper angle

[@doomman700]

Sounds right, just not hydraulic flat tappet, solid flat tappet.

[@davidwright873]

I bought the Edelbrock Performers at 12 hundred per....Bolted right down to my 351w....roller set up....couldn't be happier!! I could but not by much.....

[@crautoguy8384]

Can't go wrong with a big block chevy recently built one with cast iron Large overport heads board 60 over 468 with a mild cam as long as the comp cam doesn't go flat it should be a Torque monster can't go wrong with big block power

[@dbc105]

Those springs were in the JC Whitney Catalog next to the 3/4 Race Cams, where ever the Hell those were.

[@methanial73]

This video summed up: Old man yells at clouds.

[@rondrew2857]

Tony, its been that way for years. I mostly play with 302 Fords, and you always have to pay attention to the springs, for flat tappet cams vs rollers. More pressure in the roller type springs. Iirc, my current sbc also went through that, but my machine shop guy put what you would call flat tappet springs on it because thats what it has, a Comp flat tappet. Hope this is my last non roller.

[@sterlinggay5840]

Exactly! Everything you go to do has a gotcha! Sure takes the fun out of it ⚰️

[@RYTHMICRIOT]

I did a 350 sbc about 10-11 yrs ago. Also for an impala.1965 (still have it). The engine was a 4 bolt out of a 76 Scottsdale. Brought the block to a machine shop and had just about every service done to it. Bored, decked, align honed, etc. It certainly felt at the time, that the market for bolt on parts had thinned out. There just didn't seem to be as many choices as there were in the 90's. I found myself driving 40 miles to one of the few remaining performance shops around where I could actually put my hands on the parts before I bought them. Not only that, the machine shop that did my block shuttered and is no more. It's a bygone era. Probably just going to go LS next time.

[@krispinlihme529]

Last comment summed most of issue. However, I'm thinking the head casting may be the real issue. Roller cams can let the valve slam shut harder than most hydraulic flat tappets. If the head casing is on the soft side, the hardened seats could be driven into the casting. Honda had this issue in the late '90's to early 2000's.

[@kh40yr]

The very low buck Speedmaster heads is what you received, with junk springs. They do have Ductile iton seats. Trudge forward, but lose the installed springs, depending. That woyld be a good dyno test. Take them right out of the box, install, and make pulls till they scream out No Mas!.

[@nicholasagnew2792]

My favorite children's book is "WTF is this shit by Dr. Seuss?" where Sam-I-am gets shut down by the health department.

[@Pstruwing]

I bought one of the first set Edelbrock RPM II heads for the 5.0 Ford Mustang. Guess what the valve springs eat there way into the heads, I had to have the heads machined for proper valve spring seats. Edelbrock then released a new (current) part number with the upgraded seats.

[@frotobaggins7169]

My heads said the same thing. I checked the specs and in my research they were stronger than beehive springs and stronger than "vortec" springs".

[@Kevs442]

You're right, you have old school thinking. Manufacturing materials and processes have changed since the 60s and 70s, A LOT.

[@EddieCalcagno]

I am a GM guy so the big block chevy is refreshing. You concerned me with the Speedmaster comment I have a set of their heads on a 350. They have been fine 2000 miles in.

[@UncleTonysGarage]

See the next video for a clearer explanation on the Speedmaster thing. It's in the first few minutes

[@RichieCat4223]

3:57 Those heads have raised exhaust ports. Are your exhaust manifolds or headers going to work with them?

[@zetamale7952]

Once again. You are correct. I don't build engines, but todays vehicles take specific batteries, the cooling system takes a specific coolant, transmissions take specific fluid, and on and on and on........... Outside the field of auto mechanics is no different. Several times I've taken things back to the store because it wasn't a specific kind. Also, chainsaws don't run well on pump gas to mix yourself. They'll overheat and won't run until it cools down then runs perfect again rinse and repeat. Can't have a chainsaw stop running in the middle of cutting down a large tree. It's the damn gas. I'm forced to buy the expensive premix as a life insurance policy.

[@anthonyrowland9072]

The only offshore aluminum heads I'd buy are the AFR Enforcers. They're cast there but assembled by AFR in America. Also, at one point Blueprint used grade 8" rod bolts in their crate engines.

[@Haffschlappe]

Edelbrock Performer are fine also

[@sharkbit76]

Michaellehman2803 nailed it. I think another good point is that they look at what a typical hit rodder is going to do. Almost nobody is going to install a solid lifter cam, flat or roller, with less than.550 lift in a big block Chevy. Most will be closer to.600 or higher. I’ve never even looked for a solid lifter cam under .500. My first BBC had a Crane Blazer with.510/527 hydraulic. Back then hydraulic rollers for a common man were science fiction dreams. Solid rollers were exotic. I only knew one guy with solid rollers in a 327. Anyway, we used shimmed stock springs, used, for the Crane cam. Ran it up to 6,000 all the time and never got float. Just pop them off and test them. On the better heads that give spring specs there’s not much difference between what they promote as hydraulic flat vs solid flat.

[@bobmigarski283]

Weaker springs so the comp cam doesnt destroy itself?

[@Freedomquest08]

LOL- matching Chinesium.

[@davidkeeton6716]

Exactly! If the closed and open pressures are too high, a Comp Cams flat tappet set up MIGHT last an hour. Destroying the entire rotating assembly. I know, I suffered this. Thanks ProMaxx!

[@bbivens8263]

Edelbrock owns Comp Cams, that`s who makes their cams,....

[@jeremyking5684]

I've used comp for over 20 years never a problem! Have installed 8 last 3 months no problems at all! Comp cams gets their cores from cwc in Michigan! So not Chinese

[@jimshepherd4329]

I have had this with tfs heads, if you run those springs with a roller camshaft there will be valve train noise at a higher rpm . Tfs has different springs for different cams. Look up their small block ford heads, the spring are different . This had me going in circles trying to figure out the valve train noise. The springs for the flat tappet cams do not have enough spring pressure for a roller camshaft to keep the lifter on the cam , so you basically wind up either valve spring float at 2000 rpm..

[@donaldhalls2189]

Ye ya can't trust noone on their word anymore, thanks for sharing, all the best to you and your loved ones

[@bradleyyounger8499]

I have seen that a lot the last few years. We use to only have to worry about lift and pressure. Now we have to know the exact type of cam

[@FredsRandomFinds]

Aren't the Speedmaster/Jegs heads the same casting as the Chinese el-cheapo ones you can buy?

[@manoo422]

Where do you get these el-cheapo Chinese heads these days...??

[@theedge8659]

roller cam require more spring pressure tony

[@joe-hp4nk]

In stall comp cams 911-16 springs. They're a single spring good to .640 lift.

[@davidfleishman2275]

You have to look at the valves also. Where are they made and what are they made of?

[@softenerguy]

What's crazy is buying aluminum cylinder heads when stock heads would be perfect for this type of build.

[@tron6966]

It all comes down to weight roller lifters are heavier than flat tappet and require a spring with more pressure.

[@totensiebush]

Your hydraulic flat tappet heads are 555-514072 which Jegs says is .560 max lift The hydraulic roller version is 555-514071 which Jegs says is .725 max lift not sure what all is different, the roller versions are currently 863/side vs 733/side for what you have. I assume there's some difference beyond the springs given the significant price difference.

[@brianmaldonado3723]

A technique to avoid warrenty claims. "Did you use so and so cam/lifter/rocker..." "No?" "So sorry, your warranty is void" This is what is taught in Business 101.

[@davidkeeton6716]

It ain't as easy or simple as it used to be Tony. I'm 64, I became a partsman at 18 in '78. The specs available in the various speed equipment catalogs back then were very limited. I sold a lot of cams from various manufacturers, hydraulic, solid and both versions of roller. I also sold a bunch of sets of springs. NEVER had a failure. It's a lot different now, compared to then. A lot more complicated as the different technologies have advanced and specialized tools and equipment have become more readily available and affordable. You can't just throw parts at one using the bottom of the list mindset of the old racer/hot street car runner back in the late 60s 70s and 80s. A 16-19 year old building a hotrod or hot street car themselves these days is rare. He was pretty common from '78 to '88 in my experience.

[@cgarris8674]

Ahhh the Good-Ole Days when most parts were made in America!

[@LoneWrencher]

i bought my alu heads 7 years ago for a hyd flat tappet usually under 600 lift

[@ccantspel9463]

I'm your age and sometimes it's tuff to keep up with changes. Back in the day we basically had solid cams (which we often called "flat tappet"), hydraulic cams and the "race only" roller cams. Roller cams were solid bodied and had no hydraulic internals. Eventually technology moved on and we now have roller cams that DO have hydraulic internals. So now, basically you have "Solid" flat tappet cams, "Hydraulic" flat tappet cams (non roller), "Solid" roller cams and "Hydraulic" roller cams. It sounds like those springs are intended for "Hydraulic" "NON Roller" camshafts.

[@paulberkland5700]

As a DIEHARD MOPAR FANATIC, I approve this message. Chevy hit it out of the park with the Mark IV series engines.

[@harryashe-x1w]

Ive been shopping around for the best heads for the money and have noticed that the assembled heads come with a specific use spring package that is supposed to work with your cam of choice. I am thinking the spring pressures must be critical enough to call for a cetain camshaft but it doesn't specify what profile perimeter should be. It's a guessing game with assembled heads so I've been checking on unassembled heads so I can be sure I have the correct spring pressure for my camshaft. I have also noticed the different valve seats as well and I'm perplexed to know which seat is best for street use with some abuse mixed in so everything I read tells me to get a high priced head and so I'm still without heads.

[@georgedennison3338]

Chk/get the spring rate & determine if a roller could be used. The only gotcha is these are widget heads, one size fits all heads. Instead of having a myriad of head selections w/ different spring rates, (leading to stale inventory), they spec a head for hyd flats as a budget head. Likely there's a more expensive head for solids flats, hyd roller & solid roller. Haven't done anything w/ engines in so effing long, can't remember anything about roller vs flat spring rates. Rollers, way back were a pricey investment, as you know... and I got 10 yrs on ya.

[@tracycurtright2671]

What's hard to understand about that?

[@TonyBasuro]

"If you buy it cheap, you will have to buy it twice." Online purchasing has cut out the knowledge base of the retailer that would know not to stock that part because it would keep getting returned.

[@chehystpewpur4754]

all im gonna say is stock ls6 springs are upgrade on small block motors. maybe their springs from a big inch ls so it would be a "big block"

[@aberobinson1]

This is why I hoard all kinds of parts for SBC engines. Nothing like putting together heads the way I want to with what I have.

[@randymagnum143]

It's common to either bronze bush, bore for Chrysler lifters, or back spotface for mushroom tappets. Otherwise they eat camshafts with high spring pressure. Use roller followers.

[@staljans]

Question, do you ever worry about the seats dropping out of off alluminium heads? I just had , my 2nd time, of a 140hp corvair seat drop out, just rebuilt it, and it as usual made a mess of the seat, and just touched the piston also..ugh. by any chance do you know of a secret to making sure i get the proper replacement seat , what kind? and what to do to make sure it doesn't happen again? should i do all 3 chambers?, or do just that one and pray the others dont do it..besides the otherside of 3 chambers , so far so good