EVERYTHING Thai Longtails: Boat Size + Engine Size + Shaft Size

[@cdp50359]

People should appreciate the time and preparation you put into this. Good job

[@JTgatoring]

Thank you C Price 👊 I hope people find it helpful

[@bobsmoot2392]

Thank you for your wisdom, and for all the work it took to get there.

[@JTgatoring]

Thank you @bobsmoot2392. I greatly appreciate your kind words

[@floridaexplorer7905]

You saved me time, money and multiple headaches.... and for that I thank you!

[@JTgatoring]

You are welcome, I'm glad I could help, and thank you for letting me know. I greatly appreciate it.

[@MudMotorsMax]

I have videos of me with a 7 horsepower long tail on a 1030 jon and it does really well 20 mph stock

[@Willie_MN]

Sad news... GOOD LUCK finding a new Tracker Topper 1232 or 1236 (or any)! At least NEW! I'm told these are no longer made. I wish I could find one! Tracker dropped production to focus on the 16' and above boats. I'm disabled and would love to find one to help me get back on the water! Love your videos! Thank you!

[@JTgatoring]

Yeah. I know a few of the manufacturers were changing their sizes and narrowing down their options. Hopefully, another business is able to fill the need

[@Willie_MN]

@@JTgatoring They DROPPED 100% of the Tracker Topper line! That SUCKS!

[@tylerw1418]

Well done man. Better than the company’s themselves do about giving knowledge lol.

[@JTgatoring]

Thank you boss hog. Haha I just make videos for people who ask for them just like yourself. There always a few people in my inboxes wondering which setup to do so this should give them a good base line to start

[@BlackWarriorLures]

I was thinking that as well. This chart will be invaluable for beginners.

[@BlackWarriorLures]

Man, his is nice! Right along the lines I was thinking. Also this is assuming you are running at planning speeds hull and not displacement speeds.

[@JTgatoring]

Thank you BWL! That is correct. This is mainly for those who are new to longtails and are just getting started. Thats why I threw in there that "over 20 mph" just so people would start to think about speeds and the loads they are carrying.

[@BlackWarriorLures]

@@JTgatoring Great point. Three guys and two dogs going hunting, gotta think about grunt power.

[@JTgatoring]

Haha yes, it definitely needs to be taken into account.

[@outdoororiginal4364]

So I got a 17’ x 54” aluminum boat with a 22hp engine.. I haven’t measured the shaft length yet but it seems short because of where the prop falls. I get lots of torque steer and the prop tends to want to ride up out of the water at full speed. My outdrive has been homemade and I purchased it that way not knowing any different. Guess it’s time to buy the correct drive for this boat. My average speed is around 12-15 mph. Thanks for sharing.

[@JTgatoring]

Thank you for your feedback OutdoorOriginal! That is a wider boat. An American style longtail would probably be best for that setup. You could probably get a thai longtail to work, but it would take some experimenting. I'd be interested to hear what you end up doing and how it goes.

[@nicklubow1147]

Awesome video. Thinking about putting a 22 Hp predator on a 1542 tracker. Worried about the weight and how the transom would sit in the water. Had a beavertail 13 hp on a 1436 and it seemed to heavy. Thoughts?

[@JTgatoring]

Thank you Nick! I really appreciate your words. It would depend on what kind of mud motor you put with it. Presuming its a thai longtail, the 22hp 670cc predator is the engine most people use on the 1542 tracker and I haven't heard of anything bad about it. I do not know how heavy a beavertail is, but people running the large swamp runner kit and a 670 predator on a 1542 normally ride out good. Weight should not be an issue unless you're a big guy and don't have the weight distributed fair enough throughout the hull. If the weight is distributed good, the transom can hold the weight of the engine and kit and your draft should be proper as long as you follow the yellow sticker on the boat for weight capacity.

[@azlongtales]

Great video!!!!! Coming from the prospective of someone has most of these motors and tested them besides the 3hp and 22hp. I can say the 301cc and 420cc motors have almost identical top speed with the 420cc having about twice the acceleration. The torque on both motors is nearly the same ft/lbs with the 420cc being marginally more. 3800k rpm is still 3800k rpm. Only way to make the 420cc faster is to modify it so can do more than it limited rpm. The 301cc handles some much better for cutting and carving over and around obstacles. In my opinion the best price power and comfort for the medium size kits stock.

[@JTgatoring]

Thank you AZL. The torque difference between the 8hp and 13hp is still a decent amount in my eyes. The 6.5hp has 8 ft.lbs.trq, the 8hp has 15ft.lbs.trq. and the 13hp has 20ft.lbs.trq. So I would say there is still a solid step up from the 8hp engine to the 13hp engine when it comes to torque. That is correct that both govern out around 3800-3900 rpms, but the parts available for a 13hp seem to be more abundant and popular, which is why I recommend the 13hp over the 8hp engine for people just getting into it. People are able to trouble shoot, upgrade, and get more out of the kit due to the large customer base of the 13hp over the 8hp engine, creating a very large community.

[@azlongtales]

@@JTgatoring other 420cc motors in the 15/16hp variety make 20ft/lbs plus like the duromaxpower. but not the stock 13hp predator it is 18.4ft @2500 rpm vs the 14.9 on the 301cc 8hp marginally different low-end torque in my my experience but acceleration to top speed is much faster on the 420cc after that 2500k area. If do you want to hop up the 301cc the 420cc and 301cc share the same exhausts and intakes if you look it up believe it or not. GX 270 clones (301cc) and gx390 clones (420cc) have the same stage one kits. I love my 16hp 420cc on my 12ft vhull its amazing. But the 1436 I like the 301cc 8hp. But I do not operate conservatively in linear fashion lol. I like to move my boats around like a PWC and lateral weight/force on the rear transom is a big factor for me for body/hull roll. If you do operate the 420cc on 1436 nicely it won't be a problem.

[@JTgatoring]

@@azlongtales That 18.4ft figure is for the California/CARB compliant engine #69736. The 13hp 420cc Predator engine #60340 and #60349 stock has a 19.8ft rating which is close enough to say 20ft in my eyes. For the force applied on the transom of the 1436 with a 420cc engine, it is too much even if you play nice. I may not dig and surf with my jon boat but digging in grass and mud and playing in the weeds has really taken a toll on the transom even after reinforcing it. I will have to completely rebuilt it this fall/winter.

[@423alonso]

Super awesome video 👏👏👏 thank you so much for spending your time for all of us that are learning it is a blessing to see a young man on this crazy times adding worth to life God bless keep the videos coming please 👍👍👍👍

[@JTgatoring]

Thank you 423alonso I really appreciate that. The videos will continue

[@BackyardRambo]

When my 14.5’ sailboat conversion build is done, I’ll be calling bs on your 301cc comments. I do have the medium kit. The weight is the main issue for with getting the 420cc.

[@kennyhaworth9606]

A wonderful tutorial

[@JTgatoring]

Thank you Kenny! 😁

[@piexayarangsy9304]

Thank you so much for information

[@JTgatoring]

You're welcome 😊

[@tonyapollo]

I'm thinking about getting a 16 ft aluminum jon boat. Will a 420cc predator be up to the task. I am not planning to get in the mud but hunting and fishing.

[@JTgatoring]

It will move the boat forward but you may or may not get on plane. It depends greatly on the hull design and the weight.

[@bencool8788]

great video, appreciate the info

[@JTgatoring]

Thank you Ben!

[@Tyler_B.]

I know my 6.5 is way underpowered for my 1442(rated for 35hp) but it’s the only motor I currently have. I have a 100” shaft right now and was wondering if a 120” would be better a 20” transom. I’m planning on a stage 2 kit on my 6.5 also

[@JTgatoring]

It all depends on what you're trying to do, where the prop is currently riding in regards to the crest of the wake behind the boat, and if it's difficult to handle as it is right now.

[@leonardgums4063]

Very nice video with lots of info. Thanks for spending the time developing this video. I do have a question? I have a Four Rivers SOBADS, 11' (1' pods) x 50". I have a 6.5 PPF Predator motor with a 55" shaft. The motor will run 13-15 mph with just me. Once I put in the dog and hunting equipment plus blind, I slow down to 8-10 mph and even slower through heavy weeds. I am looking at a Backwater 6.5 and 10hp. They either come with a 55" or 65" shaft. In your mind, what would be the better setup. I'm looking for more speed on the river and being able to cut through the weeds better.

[@JTgatoring]

That sounds pretty good for an 11' boat. Their website says its rated for up to 7hp so I don't know how well it would handle the 10hp. This video was mainly for Thai longtails, not American longtails like the backwater and ppf. American longtails don't rely on the same principles. They only vary the shaft length due to transom height. If you have a tall transom, then the longer shaft would be better. Normal or shorter transom height then the shorter shaft would be fine. If you want speed, a thai longtail will perform better than an American longtail. If you want to try a thai kit, go swamp runner. As for right now, I don't know if the backwater will go faster than the ppf. It sounds like your setup is pretty dialed in. If you want more from it, then you would need a bigger boat and/or motor.

[@jacobfarms650]

Excellent video. I have an old sears 1232 I want to put a motor on. In SC any outboard 5hp or more requires its own registration. I'm considering building a 4.5hp with a Kohler or Briggs so I can avoid the extra money and paperwork every year. Do you think this would be adequate for a boat like mine or terribly underpowered?

[@JTgatoring]

Hey Jacob Farms, I believe I saw you ask this in the Facebook group, but I'll answer on here also. If you can find a single-cylinder engine that is less than 5 hp, it will work. The only one that is popular is the 3hp predator and that would push the boat, but it would be similar to a trolling motor (I'm guessing) but nonetheless, it will propel the boat forward. If you could get a 6.5hp engine or a 5hp engine and put a 4.9 or 4.5hp sticker on it... that may help, or just label the engine a certain CC like 212cc or 160cc and not state the horsepower rating at all. I ran a 6.5hp engine on my 1436 and got it up to 12mph without messing with it. The engine was stock, no special prop; just putting it on it and going.

[@adrickvelasco570]

I would love to see a video of what happens when you do the upgrade performance kits like you see with go carts on the predator 212. Stage by stage. I know the stage 1 gets about 8 or 9 hp but the stage 4 is a 20 hp and rev limited to 9000rpm. I can't imagine what that light monster will do.

[@JTgatoring]

Yes, that is something that I would be interested in seeing. With running a longtail, you do need to keep the rev limited intact, because once that prop jumps the wake, the engine goes from a full load to no load in a split second and you need to be able to protect the engine from over-revving. That 6.5hp is a great small engine with a lot of potential on a small boat.

[@BlackWarriorLures]

Oh, I already did that. What happens is your motor lasts less and less, then blows up at the weakest point once you move beyond stage 1. Even stage 1 is risky because you tend to blow head gaskets. That little 20 hp 9,000 monster with last less than 5 hours. I tell people that and they just don't believe it even though I've well documented it. Things don't run out on the water they way it run on land. Far more stress on the motor. My original stage 3/4 Predator 212 was about 18 hp and blew up like a grenade. They just don't last.

[@azlongtales]

The go power sports tillotson 10hp 212 stock motor is built really well for longtail applications and will run like a commercial motor no problem. But there is no replacement for displacement when it comes to pushing load against water. Predator 8hp @ 301cc smokes it but weighs 56lbs. The Tillotson 212 weighs 38lbs. The 212cc are perfect for solo light weight jon boat fishing set ups super fun like a #boatkart.

[@azlongtales]

@@JTgatoring I can attest to that. The Tillotson 10hp 212 governs out a 4500k ish and its sweet spot for power was 4200k and pushed the 1436 jon boat 17mph. But for the most part feels like any other 212cc except it resists stalling really well at low idle. It is built to run at higher rpm without issue as a commercial grade power equipment motor with a flywheel rated to 10k. In my experience is the best stock 212 out there for the longtails.

[@azlongtales]

As for modifications for motors I do not recommend with risking reliability potentially on the water. The Tillotson box stock 10hp 212cc is the best performing stock motor we tested at 17mph at 4600 rpm in the 212cc class on the 1436. It did not perform as well under load. The 8hp 301 was far better at load and pushing the 1436 19.2 mph at 3800k undersame conditions and go to plane much faster. The best 212cc we tested predator 6.5 212c 14mph duromax 7hp electric start 16mph and 17mph on the Tillotson 212cc 10hp with that being said they are marginally best than each other in top speed even going to a bigger motor.

[@BlackWarriorLures]

Yeah, that's what people don't understand. You can't make up for displacement. A marathon runner cannot out run a bodybuilder if you put 70 lbs. rucksacks on their backs. I would argue that the Tilly is not a stock motor. It's a factory hot-rodded motor. They just do all the stuff you do at the plant. I've never got more than 9 mph out of a stock Predator, but I' m a big heavy guy with a big heavy load of catfish. diesel

[@JTgatoring]

For modification, I do think that people who are experienced with building engines will be able to build a dependable engine. People do need to keep the rev limiter in the engine though because the prop will slip out of the wake going from full load to no load in a split second so you definitely need that protection for the engine. People need to understand the risk analysis of reliability to increased performance. Again though, I'm a big believer in going with the crowd or the group. Most people are running the predator engines and if you make it past the 10 hour mark on a predator engine without any issues, then its considered reliable. If they do have an issue its normally within that first 10 hours and it should be exchanged for another engine. I've had too many people complain about the duromax engines over the years so I do not recommend them to people, and I haven't had anyone confront me about using a tilly.

[@azlongtales]

@@JTgatoring I think maybe the older style of duromax had problems. But they are a really high rated power equipment company with good reviews and warranty and red beard garage uses them heavily. I have not had any problems with the duromax 7hp electric start it even charges my trolling motor and I've ran it now on 4 different boats. The Tillotson 212 is a very well made motor very high quality and super responsive and smooth power curve. The only motor we had minor problems is the predator 212 with getting hot on long runs but we did an almost free mod to the exhaust that solved that problem its on our youtube. But our environment is crazy here in AZ with Temps in summer regularly at over 115 degrees. As far as I'm concerned all honda clones are reliable just on the design alone regardless of brand. Its a low compression with larger displacement low octane power plant thats designed to do work for extended periods of time for hours a day on power equipment from water pumps tillers to generators ect. Its on old simple and effective design that works.

[@BlackWarriorLures]

@@JTgatoring Well, the problem is none of these builders are putting their skills to the test on the water. Even when I talked to fellas in Texas about the Tilly motor, they were scared to put it on a mud motor. They just didn't think it would hold up. I've talked to people all over OldMiniBikes forums, they all are saying the same things. True if you make it 10 hours on a stock Predator, you have a good motor. I had more than 10 hours on my stock Predator before I started modding it. It still blew up. There are no guarantees when you build an engine to go beyond is original design. The really is it's easy to get off the mini bike track when a motor blows. You get below the dam on a modded engine or up the Yukon River just before ice up and that engine blow, you die. I good race engine will never be a good work engine.

[@JTgatoring]

@@BlackWarriorLures Yeah it all depends what you are doing. I would like to think that most people have good enough judgment to know when to modify an engine and when not and have proper boater safety plans created before going out on a long trip. Live and learn

[@shawnmoore9714]

I'm looking to get the PPF Wood Duck to use with an inflatable, for it's lighter weight and ease of removal.But noticed the shaft length is listed at only 55'', by your figures, wouldn't this limit it speed-wise ?

[@JTgatoring]

Yes. This chart is for Thai longtails. The PPF is an American style longtail. It uses a ride plate above the prop to force the shaft into the water. This causes excess drag along with an inefficient shaft angle causing it to lose speed. A thai longtail would perform better if you need a higher speed.

[@b12spence]

nice job on video. I'm running a 15' Kaboat thats 54" wide at the tubes, currently has a honda GX 630(20 hp) with 100in shaft, Currently having problems with getting it to plane out and difficulty keeping the prop in the water. any advice??

[@JTgatoring]

Hey Burt, thank you! Once you go over 48", that's when things can get iffy... Take a look at this video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHKkaJ1mmbulgrc . You will most likely need to give the kit as much tail weight as possible which means you're pivot point needs to be as close to the engine as possible. If you follow all the steps in the video, another good thing to do is play with weight distribution in the boat. Try a lot of weight in the back, and try a lot of weight in the front (try adding bow weight first). Your last ditch effort is a trim tab or planning tab. Let me know how it goes for you

[@b12spence]

@@JTgatoring thanks, I've seen that video and previously made some adjustments including putting on the planing tabs, I have not bent the skeg yet to adjust for lateral pull however as I have been saving that for a last resort.

[@JTgatoring]

@@b12spence What kit is it? Another thing that may help is the prop selection. Some props handle better than others. This goes for the size and brand of the prop.

[@b12spence]

@@JTgatoring beaverdam large kit, 100 in shaft, 8.5/9/9.5 in prop, honda gx630 20hP engine. inflatable boat 15' overall length ut the transom is at 13', currently running the 8.5" prop

[@JTgatoring]

@@b12spence It sounds like you've done what you can if you've done everything mentioned above. One other thing you could try is purchasing a prop from another brand.

[@miguellovino7679]

Greetings.. Good job what length of shaft for a 10 ft jon boat with 15" transom...

[@JTgatoring]

85" shaft

[@miguellovino7679]

Thanks for answering what happens if i put a 70 inch axle. I am making my own axle

[@MPeters2662]

Why do the Thai longtails require a longer shaft length then American styles such at Backwater & Go-Devil? Is it only the cavitation plate that makes the difference? Wanting to know before I spend the extra money for the 100" shaft. (1442 Alumacraft)

[@JTgatoring]

Hey Markus, I left this reply to your comment in the Facebook group - The Thai style longtail uses an 85" or 100" shaft and rides further behind the boat with a more efficient shaft angle. The prop rides in the crest of the wake behind the boat and easy to handle on plane. At idle speed, it is tail heavy. Most Thai longtails use a surface piercing prop so only half of the prop needs to be in the water. With an American-style longtail, you have a shorter shaft which requires a cavitation/ride plate to keep the prop in the water. Without the ride plate, you would not be able to keep the prop in the water easily. Water pushes on the ride plate to force the prop in the water. Also, the American-style longtail is balanced so one end is normally not much heavier than the other. It uses a normal prop where the majority of the prop needs to be submerged. You would most likely ride better with the 100" shaft. If you plan to stay under 20 mph and spent more time idling around than you would be on plane, the 85" may be okay

[@MPeters2662]

@@JTgatoring Thanks for the information!

[@damondeveau5727]

I have a 1436 alumacraft how fast would it go with the 13hp 100 inch shaft

[@JTgatoring]

I have a 1436 with a stock 13hp engine and a swamp runner kit and I've gotten it to 23mph with a normal fishing load. Normal speed is 21 mph. 18mph with two people.

[@EdubOutdoors]

I bought a 1652 G3 do you think I can run a 13hp and 100" shaft ... I want to Jane two setups the other being a Yamaha 30

[@JTgatoring]

Thats a tough one. Based on the width of your boat, the Thai longtail may not ride the best. With Thai longtails, try to keep it 48" or less when it comes to width. Once you go over 48" it starts to get finicky where you really have to tune it in to get it to handle easily but that's only if you are going fast on plane. Most people put a 22hp engine on a 16' boat. A 13hp would be under-powering it but if you just need a small motor a 13hp would do it. It may not even get on plane though. I don't know. What are you wanting to use it for?

[@EdubOutdoors]

@@JTgatoring I talked with Jake at Backwaters today he was helpful on what I should do... I'll be fishing shallow waters...

[@JTgatoring]

@@EdubOutdoors Yeah if you have money for it, the American style longtail like the backwater kit may treat you better than thai style longtail. If you are going to be using it as a standard motor, you'll need the 22hp or bigger. Again, comes down to money and what you're using it for. If you plan on just using it to putts-around and don't need to go on plane then a smaller engine is fine, but if you plan to use it and get on plane a bigger engine will be needed. I understand you're fishing shallow waters, but are using the longtail where you have to travel a long way and it needs to get you plane, or is it launch at a secluded location where you can idle/fast-cruise to the fishing spot. If money ain't a thing, a 22hp or 35hp backwater will probably treat you right. If need to save money and you're using it as a kicker, than you may be able to get by with a thai kit

[@UWPcustombaits]

thank you for this vid just what I needed, I have a 1240 lowe rated for 10hp, should I go with the 6.5 or 8hp ? I will be hauling 2 average size people with trolling motor gear etc. I want to run shallow as possible. I have a 9.9 mercury on it now and it puts off the huge wake behind the boat like you mentioned only a matter of time until it comes over the back of the boat.

[@azlongtales]

I recommend the 8hp 301cc it rocks nearly the same torque as the 13hp/ 420cc 14.9ft ft/lbs vs 18.4 ft/lbs. The 10hp 212 tillotson $194 is also good choice at 38lbs if you want to stay light weight in the rear and perfect for light weight solo set ups. But the 301cc hp at 56 lbs will be much faster for loads or two people.

[@UWPcustombaits]

@@azlongtales thanks for the reply looks like I will be looking into the 8hp pred

[@JTgatoring]

@@UWPcustombaits You fall in that awkward space where a 6.5hp would be a little small for that boat and the boat is not rated to handle the 13hp engine so the 8hp would be the one to look into. I don't know if it would change the kind of wake you have behind the boat though. Just keep in mind that weight distribution place a big part in the way these small jon boats ride

[@ww6373]

dude ,what kind of gearbox used in big engine for long tail boat?

[@kylekarwowski2642]

Great chart! I just bought a 420cc predator at 20% off last month and got the medium swamp runner kit to put on a 1436 alumacraft that I bought new 5 years ago and have been running a 15hp outboard on. I had been thinking about a longtail for years, (even thought about building a jet jon at one point)and your videos helped to steer me in the right direction, it also helped that you have the same 1436 alumacraft as I do, so it was like watching a series of test runs on my boat with the different kits. I am going to ask my friend that welds aluminum to weld on an aluminum plate for me to the transom and 2 more angled supports before I put the kit on. Do you have any experience with the rock guard and running rivers with mild rapids?

[@JTgatoring]

Thank you Kyle! I will be rebuilding my transom soon when it gets cooler out. I do not have any experience with a rock guard, but I know swamp runner has them. They are meant to protect against side hits and not really good for planing. More for idling and running through really rough stuff. With rapids, there's a video on Facebook that I'll link below. The longtail seems to work quite well in rapids if you are experienced with your longtail. If's its your first time with a longtail, I wouldn't try it, but after you know to maneuver your boat, rapids shouldn't be too difficult.

[@JTgatoring]

facebook.com/mix.matt1/videos/3839826579368314/

[@kylekarwowski2642]

Awesome video, thanks for sharing the link. Worth watching just for the guy going over the small waterfall alone. Like you mentioned, going to practice on some quiet water before I hit any rapids. Nice to know these motors can do it though.

[@JTgatoring]

@@kylekarwowski2642 For sure. It made me feel a little better about it too. I don't have rapid here in Florida, but I have had some quick-moving water from torrential downpours in winding streams and rainwater collection ditches. It was a different experience to say the least. Best of luck and hope to hear back from you on how your experience goes!

[@jeffconley6366]

would appreciate hearing about speed difference between your 15 hp outboard and 13 hp longtail

[@azlongtales]

212cc 38lbs/ 301cc 56lbs / 420cc 73 lbs $99 to $220. $234. $380

[@BlackWarriorLures]

Yeah, I'm going with the 420 on my next motor.

[@JTgatoring]

BWL a good choice 👌

[@azlongtales]

@@BlackWarriorLures the power wont disappoint i promise. You do operate pretty conservatively from what I've seen in your videos. so I'm sure you won't have any problems with a rear corner of a transom scooping some water. I drive my rigs Thailand PWC style lol . But be warned it will be so much more "tippy" that the 212 in the rear. It opened my eyes how much it tips when I had to flip the tail in the boat on the water with 420cc on my 1436. I did not like that feeling at all and I weigh only #170. The 8hp 301cc was way more comfortable to me on the 1436 than the 420cc. I love the 420cc on my 12ft vhull it was super comfortable and an amazing upgrade and its staying there. The two motors feel about the same under 2500 rpm but much faster (2500-3800 rpm) on the 420cc with only marginal top speed increase over the 301cc under same conditions. These motors will never be speed demons and use about the same size props. These motors without a gearing advantage they are both limited by RPM speed 3800 is 3800rpm and props dont change that much speed wise. I drove a modded 420cc longtail 16ft decked jon boat here in yuma az and it will smoke mine all day because it will do close to 5k rpm and basically idles at 19 mph. but he is notorious for getting stranded and blowing motors also lol.

[@shaunthompson1935]

I have a Honda GX390 what kit would you recommend? My boat is 1442. I have a budget of 600

[@JTgatoring]

Well, you have your boat size and engine size picked out, so all that's left is shaft length and which kit to get. Kit wise, I only recommend the swamp runner kits after testing all the thai kits. The backwater kit is too expensive and didn't perform as expected. The shaft length would be a 100" shaft since you are at the 42" bottom.

[@waltthon505]

Does transom hight have any effect with what shaft length to use? (15",17",20")

[@JTgatoring]

Yes. 15" or less and an 85-inch shaft will work. 16" transom will work with an 85-inch shaft with the boat having a bottom width of 36" to 38" wide, but if its wider than 38" it would probably be best to get a 100-inch shaft. 17" or taller you will need a 100-inch shaft. Once you go taller than 20" the shaft angle is not correct and it gets very difficult to get it to ride easily if at all possible

[@rickshaw296]

My Lund 1240 Jon has a 10hp rating, I'm thinking of putting a 13 HP, 100'' longtail on it, too much?

[@JTgatoring]

Without knowing any additional information, I would say yes, the 13hp is too much. Most people normally do the 8hp predator with a medium size kit for a boat of that size. Weight is normally the first issue (the waterline on the boat), and the second issue is the transom's strength and ability to handle the weight/hp/torque of that engine.

[@rickshaw296]

And have your conclusions changed with all your experience? SPS still the best?@@JTgatoring

[@JTgatoring]

@@rickshaw296 I'd say that I've stayed up to date due to actively managing a longtail Facebook group with over 21k members and I would say yes, I still think Swamp Runner offers the best longtail.

[@rickshaw296]

That's great, thanks for your input! 8.4hp GX 270 SPS Medium for the 1240 Lund it is!@@JTgatoring

[@rickshaw296]

What about the 14 ft Lund Jons? Were good up to 25 hp, do I stick with SPS, or is the upgrade to a mud buddy 23 or 25 worth it?@@JTgatoring

[@black_widow_overland]

Does this chart work with "v-hull boats" or just flat bottom boats? Thanks.

[@JTgatoring]

This works with all boats that are going to be on plane. Flat bottoms are going to be more true. V-hull still follow the same principles when it comes to bottom width, engine size, and shaft length. I would say that for the 95% of people this will work with the majority of boats out there.

[@black_widow_overland]

@@JTgatoring I've got a 1442 v-hull boat and when it's in the water.. the back end sits about 6" from the top of the transom to the top of the water. Front end sticks up out of the water. When running, then slow down and stop.. the wake comes up over the back of the boat soaking everything. Running a 13hp gx390 with 100" mud-skipper kit. After watching this video, makes me wonder if I should try a 8hp motor, but going off the chart.. im right where I need to be 13hp, 100" shaft.

[@JTgatoring]

It sound like the boat is not rated for that size engine. You need to put more weight near the bow of the boat. Weight distribution plays a huge role when it comes to thai longtail motors. Check the rating on the boat, how much weight you have in the boat, and then play with your weight distribution when you get out on the water.

[@black_widow_overland]

@@JTgatoring boat tag says max hp is 20. Max weight (motor and gear 650lbs) my dad and I are both around 195lb-204lb each.

[@azlongtales]

@@black_widow_overland I am running a 12ft vhull decked with a 16hp mudskipper and 110 inch shaft and i love it. The 8hp has nearly the same top speed with 420cc being only marginally faster top speed when i used it on it due to the limited rpm. How ever the 420 had much better acceleration after 2500 3800 rpm. But low end grunt is nearly the same in my experience not a theoretical on paper 14.9 ft/lbs vs 18.4ft/lbs on the two motors. But after 2500k it's very noticeable.

[@johnthomas8605]

Is there such a situation as too long a shaft?

[@JTgatoring]

In my eyes, yes. You want the prop to ride in the sweet spot of the wake behind the boat. If you have 30" wide hull with a 110" shaft, the prop would be placed too far back. Now if you have a standard 36 or 42 inch bottom, a 100" shaft is good, but the 110" shaft would still probably be too long unless you're going 30+ MPH. When you're on a 48" wide or wider or if the transom is taller than 20", then I do not think the shaft can be too long. Thats when the 110" or 120" shaft would be used.

[@MI_TurkeySlayer]

I have a 1432 with a 16hp (mud skippers 420cc predator) on it with the twister xl kit from mud skipper. I was having trouble getting it on plane until I got my chainsaw winch n stuff on the front to get some more weight up front. Now, I can get it on plane and I've played around with a few different prop sizes and the best speed I can get is 18mph with 8in prop but that's at like 4000rpm because there's no governor. It has some performance upgrades so it just seems like I should be able to get better speeds and it's still difficult getting on plane. The 9in prop will only get up to 3100-3200 rpm so I'm overpropped there. I do have a few different 8.5in props ordered that I'll play with. But do you think part of my problem is that twister xl kit being so short or something else? You can also email me if you'd like [e-mail]. Love the videos man and I've learned a ton from you.

[@JTgatoring]

The twister motor is completely different drivetrain than a thai longtail, so any information I give you based off of longtails and may or may not work with the twister. One key thing about a jon boat is weight distribution. Play with your weight distribution first. That will help a lot. It sounds like you're on the right track. You know the 9" is too big, and the 8" is working good so slowly step it up from there. They don't make a 8.25" so the 8.5" is your next step. The issue with the twister is that it is a less efficient drivetrain. It is a cable inside a tube with a multiple resistant points. and acts like a spring and binds inside the tube. Thank you for subscribing to the channel Michigan Bowhunter88. I look forward to hearing back from you

[@MI_TurkeySlayer]

@@JTgatoring so I think I figured out the main reason my speeds aren't getting up there right. My handle pulls way out to the right if I let go of it. But testing it with those 8.5in props the other day, I finally just noticed that the skeg/prop is riding at a very hard angle when I'm keeping the boat going straight. If I straighten it out, the boat turns right. Is the motor probably just not mounted center?

[@JTgatoring]

​@@MI_TurkeySlayer There could be a couple things going on. Just from the sounds of it, I would first measure the transom and find center, mark it, and adjust your mud motor so it is centered on the transom. Then make sure that your skeg is straight up and down when behind the boat (easiest to do this before you launch it at the ramp or when you have it at home) then go out on the water and get on plane and see if the prop is center of the wake. If it isn't then you need to play with the weight distribution in your boat because the boat is most likely listing to one side which is pushing the wake to one side which is making you move the prop to that side. If that makes sense... after you get that dialed in, it should be good. Now you can bend the skeg or angle the shaft if the prop keeps jumping out. Normally the prop jumps out of the wake to the port side. You could "clock" or rotate the shaft just slightly, moving it from the 6 o'clock position to the 7 o'clock position and that may help. If it doesn't, then move it back to the 6 o'clock position and bend the tip of the skeg to the port side so the water hits that bend in the skeg and pushes it to the starboard side of the boat. This is what keeps it centered.

[@MI_TurkeySlayer]

@@JTgatoring thanks. I'll give some of this a try.

[@azlongtales]

No matter what you do choose of these industrial engines stock they are limited by rpm so they will never be top speed demons 😈. So the best bang for buck in all the mid range motors stock is 301cc and I believe and it's unfairly overlooked in my opinion. Power weight comfort it is the best for your average 12 to 14ft jon boat experience I feel with a longtail. You you could always sell your 301cc upgrade up to a 420cc if you wanted more acceleration unlike like starting with a 7hp kit. In fact the kit im running now will do from a 8 to 22hp motor and has a 110 inch shaft. But the 7hp kits we have a 85 inch shaft so the Tillotson 212 10hp may be possibly faster with a longer shaft but we have yet to test that yet.

[@BlackWarriorLures]

Hey, have you had a chance to test many V-twins? It'd be interesting to see a Briggs 16 hp V-twin vs a Predator 13hp hot-rodded motor.

[@JTgatoring]

The 8hp may be over looked, and that may be something you could change, but with the way its been, people are wanting more speed. They associate that with more displacement so the 13hp was the popular option and thats what the majority of people run today. The 8hp, 13hp, and 22hp all have the 1" output shaft and mounting pattern so if a kit fits one of those engines, it will fit any of the others. You run into the issue of tail weight though and I believe thats why mud skipper sent the 100" shaft with the kit I received, but the kit still didn't have enough tailweight or the proper angle for my transom. Since then, they've added the adjustable engine base to both the small and medium kit, but are now selling the medium kit and large kit as one single kit, but I don't know how the tailweight is with the adjustment holes to be able to accommodate all the engine sizes with their different weights. In my eyes, the most over looked engine is the small V-twin engines by Vanguard Briggs. The 13hp, 16hp, & 18hp engine are all different block sizes but are about the same weight. Their 23hp is also a lot lighter than the 22hp predator. I just need a better boat that can handle the power. The 1436 I have is failing again so no bigger engines for me.

[@azlongtales]

@@JTgatoring yea its just 16hp vtwin motor is so expensive much more than a kit. which kind of goes against the whole longtail awesomeness advantage . It is a proven commercial motor but you pay for it. I'm hoping more people run gx270 clones (301cc) I think they are the best size for the 12 to 14ft range jon boats and super comfortable and affordable with a wide range of application for different boats including 12ft vhulls as well.

[@BlackWarriorLures]

@@JTgatoring Do they still make the 13 hp v-twin? I've seen the old model listed on some Web sites, but not on the Briggs site. As I remember Mr. Dobbs told me the 13 hp was the same engine as the 16 hp just a smaller carburetor to choke it down. I've always been a advocate for V-twins. If I had a million dollars I'd develop an 8, 10 and 12 hp v-twin or inline two cylinder that would fit on a medium kit.

[@azlongtales]

@@BlackWarriorLures no our rigs are small if I get a hold of a 15ft flat or 14ft vhull I will run a 22hp predator on it with 9 and 9 1/2 prop and see what it can do.

[@EdsPlace]

whaaaat, idc, imma put the 670 on a 1236