Everything the KJB Research Council Said about Readability at Their 2023 Conference

I've gotten on their radar! I do believe that this video covers every last thing any of the dozen or so presenters at the conference had to say about KJV readability. If I missed something, my apologies!
Follow-up: I committed one MAJOR gaffe: I called Manny Rodriguez "Manny Ramirez" 28 times. My apologies to this brother! Sigh… This project took many hours, and I was bound to get something wrong!
Another follow-up: Gail Riplinger most definitely appears to be the source of Brother Rodriguez list of words "omitted" by the NKJV: web.archive.or...
🎁 Help me end Bible translation tribalism, one plow boy at a time:
✅ / mlward
✅ buymeacoffee.c...
📖 Check out my book, Authorized: The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible:
amzn.to/2r27Boz
🎥 Watch my Fifty False Friends in the KJV series:
• 50 False Friends in th...
👏 Many, many thanks to the Patreon supporters who make my work possible!
Name, James Duly, Robert Gifford, Lanny M Faulkner, Lucas Key, Dave Thawley, William McAuliff, Razgriz, James Goering, Eric Couture, Martyn Chamberlin, Edward Woods, Thomas Balzamo, Brent M Zenthoefer, Tyler Rolfe, Ruth Lammert, Gregory Nelson Chase, Ron Arduser, Caleb Farris, Dale Buchanan, Jess English, Aaron Spence, Orlando Vergel Jr., John Day, Joshua Bennett, K.Q.E.D., Brent Karding, Kofi Adu-Boahen, Steve McDowell, Kimberly Miller, A.A., James Allman, Steven McDougal, Henry Jordan, Nathan Howard, Rich Weatherly, Joshua Witt, Wade Huber, M.L., Brittany Fisher, Tim Gresham, Lucas Shannon, Easy_Peasy , Caleb Richardson, Jeremy Steinhart, Steve Groom, jac, Todd Bryant, Corey Henley, Jason Sykes, Larry Castle, Luke Burgess, Joel, Joshua Bolch, Kevin Moses, Tyler Harrison, Bryon Self, Angela Ruckman, Nathan N, Gen_Lee_Accepted , Bryan Wilson, David Peterson, Eric Mossman, Jeremiah Mays, Caleb Dugan, Donna Ward, DavidJamie Saxon, Omar Schrock, Philip Morgan, Brad Dixon, James D Leeper, M.A., Nate Patterson, Dennis Kendall, Michelle Lewis, Lewis Kiger, Dustin Burlet, Michael Butera, Reid Ferguson, Josiah R. Dennis, Miguel Lopez, CRB, D.R., Dean C Brown, Kalah Gonzalez, MICHAEL L DUNAVANT, Jonathon Clemens, Travis Manhart, Jess Mainous, Brownfell, Leah Uerkwitz, Joshua Barzon, Benjamin Randolph, Andrew Engelhart, Mark Sarhan, Rachel Schoenberger

[@danwestonappliedword]

The False Friends, not the archaic words or syntaxes, are why I bought my daughter a NKJV to read, even though I grew up with and still love to read the KJV. "Let" meaning "prevent" rather than "allow" is what did it for me. Difficult or unknown words do not bother me. I have taught English for 26 years in High School, and have read voraciously since the first grade, yet there are still words that I find that I have to look up in various books. The problem with "false friends " is that you THINK you understand it when you don't. They are words that you wouldn't even think to look up, and so the incorrect meaning goes right into the mind without notice. You have done a tremendous job in your work and education about the Bible, and I can't thank you enough for giving all of us the tools and knowledge needed to combat the opinions of our fanatic brothers and sisters in Christ!

[@markwardonwords]

This means a ton. Thank you.

[@markwardonwords]

God bless your daughter’s reading of Scripture!

[@Matthew-307]

The thing that MOST grieves me and outright angers me, is when KJVO people say that “if you can’t understand the King James you probably aren’t saved”….makes me so fired up.

[@markwardonwords]

I do wonder sometimes if people who say this can hear themselves talk...

[@captainnolan5062]

Another way to address the argument that "there are difficult words in any bible, (so why change form the KJV to a modern translation)," would be to point out that: the difficult words in a modern translation can be looked up in a modern dictionary. However, the difficult words in the KJV requires you to look them up in the (expensive) Oxford English Dictionary, and then do some word sleuthing to see what they meant in 1611 (if you can figure out the correct context and choose the most accurate meaning). I heard one commentator recently say that he 'was tired of having to translate his English Bible [KJV] into English' so that he could understand it. So he figured, why not just use a translation that has already done this preliminary translation for him (he switched from the KJV to the CSB as a result of his epiphany).

[@markwardonwords]

RIGHT! Very good!

[@fantasynerd8]

The primary motivation I had for embracing more modern translations came after growing up with the KJV then reading familiar passages in a modern translation and realizing that I had been misunderstanding those passages due only to a change in the English.

[@markwardonwords]

Right! Me too!

[@bobbymichaels2]

I had the opposite happen to me. When I read newer versions, I'm baffled as to why they took plainly written passages and rewrote them. Many times, they use harder words (or words no more easily understood), or they reduce the language to something less powerful, rythemic, or majestic.

[@Kevin-nr9hp]

The KJV is literally 5th grade English, with mostly single syllable words. Grow up. You want to read God’s words but you can’t grasp the ENGLISH of the KJV ? There’s a price to pay to read God’s perfect words… when you read the “modern” versions, although “easier to read,” you are no longer reading God’s words. What a tragic compromise

[@CreationMandate]

@@Kevin-nr9hp ad hominem attacks do not further your argument.

[@Kevin-nr9hp]

@@CreationMandate believing we don’t have God’s perfect Bible today in ENGLISH is not an intellectual argument, it’s a heart problem. A God who can preserve your soul, surely can preserve a BOOK. If you want to make God out into a liar that’s your problem. Thanks to the Catholic Church not many people even knows the KJV is the only word of God in our modern language: ENGLISH

[@MrRiosRivers]

The real question. Is the sign language translator signing in KJV or NKJV?

[@markwardonwords]

Right! ;)

[@JR-lg7fd]

ASL

[@jeremiahspassion]

Dr. Ward, I so greatly appreciate your charitableness on this topic. I do have a question after watching this video. Would a KJB edition that removed all the false friends “be enough” movement in your mind to overcome the intelligibility concerns you have identified? Or would more be required?

[@CC-iu7sq]

The NKJV already did that.

[@CaptainMayo]

Thanks!

[@markwardonwords]

Thank you!

[@yahusrevus]

Man, my heart was already broken by 5 minutes in. The gentleman begins by stating he's not a fan of being lumped in with Ruckman and then proceeds to effectively lump everyone who isn't an ardent "KJV only" proponent into a category of uncaring, "carnal" (at best!) Christians. Wow. I've never worked as a Bible translator or for a Bible publisher. I'm not a pastor looking to "expand my flock" with any "modern trappings". In fact, I've never even written anything on the subject for money. But, I would imagine I would still be included in that "lump" as I have shared my thoughts on the subject several times both in person and in print and I don't demand Textus Receptus for all. (Ironically, out of a heart for those I regularly encounter who struggle to read and understand the KJV without a pile of other references and an 1828 Noah Webster's dictionary. Of equal irony is that I am a very "conservative Christian" often criticized for being "fundamental" in my beliefs. Go figure.) A very interesting choice of direction by him right out of the gate (which pretty much set the tone for the rest).

[@markwardonwords]

To be fair: I’m the one who put that first, though as I said in the video I did not do it on purpose. But yes: what a way to have an argument with other Christians: claiming that they’re all motivated by money and acceptability. Where can the argument go from there?

[@yahusrevus]

Obviously, the final speaker gave a glimmer of hope that I consider nothing short of an answer to prayer. I am curious as to how he is now perceived among his peers there today. But, I will afford myself the luxury of dreaming of a day where this council directly, if need be, embarks on such a project as he suggested (complete with being "free" of publishing royalties, if need be). At the very least, he is the only gentleman who spoke that I felt had no desire to devour "the other side" and I very much praise God for that. Even the thought of the body of Christ not being at each others' throats for a change... Hallelujah!

[@markwardonwords]

@@yahusrevus I have reason to believe the other guys aren't entirely happy with Dan Haifley. But I don't really know.

[@yahusrevus]

My earnest prayer to our Lord is offered for Mr. Haifley.

[@RobL194]

Just now watching this - and I can’t help but notice the chorus of “amens” on the first two speakers…versus…the dead silence from the crowd as Dan Haifley talks about people who don’t leave the KJV in rebellion and acknowledges an update would not be a sin. Would have loved to be in that room! And generally - just the acknowledgment of the issue is so refreshing. I teach teenagers who’ve grown up in our KJV church, and I make it a point that for every lesson, I explain every false friend or other language change issue. I’m grateful for their sake that the tide is slowly changing on this such that I have liberty to at least acknowledge language change. Looking forward to your next book!

[@markwardonwords]

I really do believe the tide is turning. The next generation at the KJBRC, I think, at least wants to have the discussion-the way Dan did. Most of the leaders there refuse to have a discussion.

[@calebschaaf1555]

Excellent loving distinction @3:00 in. There's a huge difference between accidental occasional promoters of Ruckman-like ideas, and being an all-in Ruckmanite.

[@markwardonwords]

Right!

[@captainnolan5062]

If the language of the KJV is timeless, there would (by definition) be no reason to defend the KJV language in presentations such as these, and there would be no reason for the KJV Research Council to exist.

[@markwardonwords]

Right!!

[@socksthemusicalcat]

I actually visited this church a few years back while I was still in the IFB and was doing some research work north of Baltimore at the recommendation of some mutual acquaintances. I was theologically and intellectually on my way out of the movement at the time, but I enjoyed the fellowship there. Good people, and a pretty cool church sanctuary design.

[@markwardonwords]

I didn't feel I got to know the church through the conference. Glad to hear positive things about them, truly.

[@socksthemusicalcat]

@@markwardonwords I feared that might be the case, especially considering the stacked lineup of guys from all over the place coming to speak exclusively representing the divisive party of the KJV issue. Since the pastor there isn't listed on the Council, I'm going to assume he didn't speak at all, though I'm sure he defers to those who did, who he undoubtedly believes to be authorities on the issue.

[@markwardonwords]

@@socksthemusicalcat A number are indeed authorities.

[@captainnolan5062]

For what shall it profit a pastor if he shall retain the KJV and lose his own congregation? It is indeed wonderful to see progress being made on this issue. Also, just because you update the KJV does not mean that the KJV is obliterated from existence. The KJV will still be available to anyone who wants to read and enjoy it as a masterpiece; just as people still read and enjoy The Iliad or The Odyssey (Note: New and updated translations of these epic poems keep coming out as our language changes).

[@markwardonwords]

Right!!

[@TheCastleKeeper]

Praying for you.

[@markwardonwords]

Thank you for this.

[@SimplyProtestantBibleBeliever]

@29:17 he got these exact “statistics” from Gail Riplingers tract on the NKJV. I know exactly where he got it. And that would explain why it’s so terrible and deceiving. Plain subterfuge. These brothers swear they’re not down with us Ruckmanites, but I know where they’re getting their stuff almost every time they speak.

[@markwardonwords]

Yes, Manny has never made any attempt to answer my critiques.

[@a.w.virella7011]

@@markwardonwordsHe can’t and won't. These guys used to talk at our old church in Chicago under Phil S. At Ravenswood. Unfortunately, it wouldn't go well if you wanted to challenge them on it. I'm glad for the Scholarly correction. These guys need it.

[@dwmmx]

56:00 - Trouncing inadequate research with solid information! Bro. Mark does his homework, as usual, and I try enjoy that

[@markwardonwords]

But I mistook Brother Rodriguez' name! Mark my words: that will be repeatedly mentioned if they make a reply.

[@joshuaboggus8341]

I have recently discovered your videos and they are great. I am an American Pastor who works in spanish speaking ministry. A few years ago a spanish version was presented to me that was translated from the KJV so that in essence there would be a KJV that the spanish speaking world could use. I looked through it and many passages that were understandable in the RVR 1960 became difficult and choppy. I disguarded that version because our people could not inderstand it. The version is the RVG 2010. Have you heard of this and are you familiar with the attempts to bring the KJV into other foreign languages?

[@markwardonwords]

Yes. Gomez is an extremist. :( Seems like a nice guy, but his work is bizarre, like the other attempts to translate the KJV into Korean that I have heard about.

[@markwardonwords]

He deliberately altered Psalm 12:6-7 in Spanish to fit KJVO doctrine.

[@davidbrock4104]

What a treat to catch much of the premier. Mark has to be one of the finest voices out there advocating for understanding in the KJV world. I know of no one who has invested more time on this issue.

[@RonnieSandifer]

Sorry for the dumb question but what is a "bus kid"? Im from the rural south so maybe im missing something because of that.

[@markwardonwords]

A kid from an unchurched family who is brought to church on a bus. It’s a major evangelistic tool in many churches. I myself participated heavily in such a ministry for many years.

[@gregb6469]

I find it ironically amusing that the KJV-only people are Baptists who would have been jailed, if not burned, by the Anglicans who produced the KJV translation, had they been around in 1611. I also find in ironic that KJV-only preachers will read the text from an early 17th-century translation, then expound the text using 20th-century English, much of which exposition consists of explaning in modern terms what the archaic 17th-century words and phrases mean.

[@markwardonwords]

Yes, it's all so sad to me!

[@sbs8331]

The founding pastor of our church back in the '70's used the KJV (but wasn't KJVO). A friend starting using the NASB and remarked that most often when the pastor explained a passage, that's almost exactly how the NASB rendered it.

[@KateGladstone]

@@sbs8331 if the KJV-only churches had to disfellowship every pastor who translates the KJV in the pulpit, and every church that lets the pastor do it, the KJV-only churches would have no pastors and no churches remaining.

[@matthewarney]

I appreciate your challenge regarding counting and categorizing the differences. You call for the council to do that with other versions than the KJV. Can you be challenged to do the same? You have done an excellent job (and I have personally received great benefit from) your list of false friends in the KJV. Has anyone done that same work regarding modern translations?

[@markwardonwords]

Excellent question, Matthew! I believe I have done the same thing for the modern versions that I've done for the KJV: I've reported false friends when I've come across them. I haven't gone looking, just as I haven't gone looking in the KJV. I just stumble across them in my regular Bible study. I believe that "bruise" and "host" (as in "heavenly host") are the only false friends I've come across that appear in any modern versions. The latter is somewhat debatable, I acknowledge, as a false friend-though I stand by my assessment there. One area where I bet I'd find more archaisms in modern translations is in syntax. My impression is that the ESV, especially, holds onto some KJV syntax at times when it doesn't need to. But I haven't made this a focus of my evaluation of the KJV, because it's not my specialty, and because I find it more difficult to explain (and prove) archaic syntax than I do to explain (and prove) archaic words. So I don't think I've used a double standard here.

[@matthewarney]

@@markwardonwords I wasn't thinking you were espousing a double standard. I also know you do (even in this video) point things out as you go. I was just thinking in all of your free time (ha ha 🙂) you would make the same kind of video series for the modern translation as you have with the KJV. I would, in my less trained opinion, postulate that there are legitimately more than just 2. I think there is room at the table to honestly and openly discuss these matters from a balanced position. You have done well, even here in this video, of charitably answering the positions being held, even when there is a measure of ad hominem in the presentation being answered. Even when I disagree, I appreciate the work you do!

[@markwardonwords]

@@matthewarney You're a good brother! And this a reasonable and important objection. I actually do have a file on my computer I just started the other day for false friends in modern versions. I am aware of only two. I will try to keep my eye out for more. If KJV defenders start, however, to categorize-if they start to say that "the modern versions contain false friends, too!," then I must remind them also to count. How many are there in the ESV? How many in the NIV? And how many in the KJV?

[@redsorgum]

I don’t know why it’s so complicated to simply take the KJ and update the English words that are outdated or have changed their meaning. It can be done without a new translation, just change the outdated words. I do have the KJVer version which does do a pretty good job at that. By the way, what do they do about translations in other languages? Are they making sure those translations are correct?

[@markwardonwords]

Were all of the translation decisions of the KJV translators perfectly accurate? If so, then modern revisions should change only the outdated words. If not, then they ought to have some freedom to make different decisions here and there.

[@redsorgum]

@@markwardonwords I’m not KJVO, and I appreciate that they a very hesitant about changing the KJ, but their arguments about not updating the outdated words make no sense.

[@markwardonwords]

@@redsorgum Ah! I totally misread you! Yes, I agree! It is very suspicious to me that they're never, ever happy with any attempts to update the KJV! But I have a few guys I think give some weighty criticisms of the NKJV and MEV. I just don't think they use just weights; I don't think they let the archaisms in the KJV weigh hardly anything at all.

[@johnmcafee6140]

"Seminary professors have trouble understanding the King James Bible, bus kids don't". I don't think I've encountered a group that has as much disdain for higher education than the King James only crowd. In a discussion a few weeks ago I was told to, "educate yourself". When I told him I had taken seminary classes on textual transmission and translation he called me an, "over educated fool". This would have actually been funny except that I've had similar conversations at least a dozen time over the past 4-5 years. 🤦🏼‍♂

[@markwardonwords]

I am very careful about when I use that question. But it is relevant: there are times to use it. Some matters related to translation can be judged properly only by those who can read both the source and target languages well. I don’t see any way around that.

[@LucasJKey]

Can you send me that test for the rural pastors to give their congregations? Thank you

[@markwardonwords]

I sent you an email-that was you, right?

[@LucasJKey]

Yes

[@mikerobertson4041]

I am 65 years old, soon to be 66. I have been in church for 60 of those years, have read the Bible through, several times, have been the beneficiary of excellent Bible expositors, have studied & taught the Bible for many years. I read from the KJV every day, but it is not my go-to Bible, and one of the main reasons is that it is more difficult to understand. Even after all of these years, I still find myself looking at words & phrases, wondering what they mean. For my personal study, I use the NASB & the ESV.

[@markwardonwords]

Amen!

[@ejwoods2457]

Is that a Cambridge Clarion KJV brown calfskin, sir?

[@chancylvania]

I think the funniest part of the donkey vs backside history is that they have nothing to do with each other, and everyone would assume that they would

[@markwardonwords]

Yes, me too!

[@RevRMBWest]

I agree that if you cannot understand the AV then you should not use it; there are others that you can use instead which are done by reasonably sound evangelicals - NIV, NASB, ESV, MEV, and the NKJV. But the AV is still, in my view, sufficiently clear to be a standard Bible if a church wishes to have it as its pew feeder and pulpit filler. But my own view is that the AV and the NKJV are the best standard English Bibles for today's pew and pulpit, but that will not stop me from fellowshipping and gospelling with someone who wields the NIV, ESV or NASB.

[@criticalthinkingwjake]

Im a pastor, I read between about 5 different translations because it helps me to understand in greater detail why certain word choices were used. I study the kjv and enjoy it, but it is more time consuming because of the age of the language used. There are words I have to pause at and look up to make sure im understanding it correctly. If I did not know how to study the bible it would be exceedingly challenging to find the kjv to be beneficial. Could it still be? Yes, but less so because of the language barrier. I use the kjv during funerals as appropriate because of its elegance at times and because some people like the way it reads. But those are preferences. When we refuse to acknowledge our preferences, we find ourselves in trouble of idolizing something.

[@markwardonwords]

Excellent. Agreed!

[@cloudx4541]

How can they complain about using Sheol over Hell because modern people won’t understand it, while at the same time defending all the hard to understand words in KJV? I heard Stephen Anderson admit Sheol is more accurate than Hell, but likes Hell because modern people will understand it more. I don’t know how they can argue for easier to understand words while denying you can update a single word in the KJV.

[@eclipsesonic]

29:17 - This was lifted from one of Gail Riplinger's tracts on the NKJV, called New King James Version Death Certificate. Pastor Scott Ingram, on his channel (which is also called by his name) did a video 6 months ago on this very accusation, called "Does NKJV remove Lord, God, heaven, repent, blood, hell, JEHOVAH, New Testament, damnation & devils?" It's a great watch. 👍

[@markwardonwords]

✔ So I guessed right?

[@eclipsesonic]

@@markwardonwords Sorry Mark, but I don't quite get the question?

[@markwardonwords]

@@eclipsesonic Ooh, I think I guessed at another point in the video that Ramirez was sounding like Riplinger.

[@eclipsesonic]

@@markwardonwords Ah right, I'm with you. Yes, you'd be right.

[@lukemorrison703]

Thank you for this video. It was well done and very helpful. I appreciate all the work you do toward KJVO it is beneficial and solid.

[@markwardonwords]

Glad it was helpful!

[@JonahGambrel]

This brother saved me out of the KJV only mindset. I’m a new Christian as of November 2022, I was told to only read the KJV based on people’s opinions, this brothers facts saved me from ignorantly falling in to KJV onlyism. I will say though that the KJV is a beautiful translation and flows very well in much of the New Testament, but there are many verses that became shrouded in mystery for me while reading it, which became clear in other translations. After all like Paul says in 1Corinthians “God is not a God of confusion but of wisdom”. Hopefully I didn’t butcher that.

[@markwardonwords]

Yes-very good! Do you have a good church to attend?

[@JonahGambrel]

I sure do, it’s a small baptist church nearby me. They use the KJV but don’t mind that my wife and I do not.

[@markwardonwords]

Excellent!

[@2wheelz3504]

Thanks, Mark for clarifying these things. You are gracious. The man "misleads" the flock of God is a euphemism for "lying." He may have done it out of ignorance as you suggest, but a Shepherd has a responsibility to be accurate. There are many things I don't know about the Bible, but when I teach those passages I give various viewpoints held by men of God and their justification, then tell where I fall and why. I don't die on that hill.

[@markwardonwords]

I'm thankful to leave to God the determination of whether these men are lying or not. This is a difficult matter: don't I want the Lord to have mercy on me when I say untrue things without purposefully, knowingly lying? I say a lot of stuff publicly. Surely I've made errors somewhere. Yes, these guys should have done more and better homework. But they also, a lot of them, grew up in cultures and attended schools that didn't provide them very good tools for doing homework. How much blame do they bear? I'm happy to leave that in God's hands.

[@2wheelz3504]

Again, a gracious response, Mark. But then, why argue the point with them? How is the church edified? A discussion and comparison of English translations is very helpful, but don't you think THIS argument is futile? I've only had two discussions with KJV only Christians and there was no reasoning with them. It is a cardinal tenet of their faith. It's like the debates between Calvinists and others on KZbin, no one ever convinces anyone. It's just a bloody battle. I heard Steve Lawson say that a non-Calvinist is not a biblical Christian. How do you argue with that? The debate begins with one side calling the other side a heretic. It's the same with KJV only Christians. What do you think would be the outcome of a Mark Ward/Steven Anderson debate? I think there just would be a lot of Christian blood all over the floor. What do you think of the new LSB? Does it fill an important gap in English translations? @@markwardonwords

[@markwardonwords]

@@2wheelz3504 Excellent questions and points. And you've named some of the reasons I haven't yet done a debate (though I'm not promising not to at this point). But I think it's helpful to think of it this way: none of the speakers at this conference are my audience. Instead it's the many people sitting on the fence, or near it. And those I do reach. Literally hundreds of young pastors from the KJV-Only world have reached out to me, expressing gratitude for my videos-like this one. There are reachable people, and KZbin helps me find them, and them find me. There are many, many people whose church doctrinal statement confesses KJV-Onlyism as a cardinal tenet of their faith, but who have for years been on a journey away from that divisive and false viewpoint. I won't debate Steven Anderson, because he will only turn again and rend me. He is incapable of constructive dialogue. But I know other KJV/TR defenders who can have conversations. They would not engage in a bloody battle. And yet… I can't give details, but I have more than once mentioned leaders in KJV/TR defense in videos, people you'd NEVER think would talk to me, and they have. And they've moderated their rhetoric. I entered this debate knowing I'd get blasted. I didn't expect a) just how ugly and dirty (I mean sexually charged insults) a small percentage of KJV/TR defenders would get or b) just how large a number of people in the KJV/TR worlds really were primed to listen to truth.

[@2wheelz3504]

Good to know!@@markwardonwords

[@daleclark3138]

Have they ever considered the free World English Bible based on the Majority text or is the TR only tied in to KJ only

[@markwardonwords]

I don't know. I've listened to dozens (?) of their talks, but I've never heard them mention it.

[@captainnolan5062]

If there are 353 false friends in the KJV, and they are each used 10 times in the Bible, that is 3,530 problem words, and thus, the problem of false friends is an order of magnitude larger that the speaker realizes [if they are used 100 times each in the Bible, that is 35,300 false friends!). Also note: One problem with false friends is that they seem to be 'easy to understand', but they are not easy to understand correctly.

[@David-wq3dq]

1:38:10. a presentation from sincere empathy

[@markwardonwords]

Right! I really appreciated Dan Haifley's words.

[@lukewarmnomore7523]

I've watched Steven Anderson for years,(Im not a KJV only guy, although I have learned to love KJV cuz of him) and have always wanted to take the time and record everytime Anderson had to explain to his congregation what the the verse meant in todays language and then write it down so I could have the New Anderson Translation.

[@markwardonwords]

Give a few examples!

[@lukewarmnomore7523]

@@markwardonwords There are many, off the top of my head in memory: Quit ye like men Pisseth against the wall Pretty much in any sermon he does he has to explain to the modern hearer in his congregation a modern definition.

[@nerdyyouthpastor8368]

I have taken "only by pride cometh contention" to mean that pride is the root cause of all contention.

[@dwmmx]

2:00 -ish - The rejection of Ruckman and Riplinger, et al, still does nothing to offer dissuasion of the co-opting of those folks' works, as well as the Adventists, into KJVO Fundamentalism.

[@markwardonwords]

Right. =(

[@Me2Lancer]

I believe the root cause of the problems is, "We don't know what we don't know."

[@eternallogic6394]

Mark, I thought we already solved the readability issue with the KJV with the NKJV? What am I missing? I know the KJV onlyist would disagree, but any other unbiased reasonable person would agree the NKJV is the solution to this readibility issue with the KJV.

[@markwardonwords]

Agreed! But I find that many KJVO brothers just haven’t given the NKJV any real thought. Tons of them believe that it’s based on the critical text.

[@scotthix2926]

18:40 - "When did "new" become a qualifer for a new translation" - When the 1611 KJV translators decided to make a new English Bible translation compared to the older translations.

[@Matthew-307]

I was thinking that too. I’m sure the kjv got called “the new king james version” in conversation…

[@travismoore7938]

After listening to many of your videos over the last few days, a question has developed in my mind: if the KJV only defenders don’t mind going to the dictionary to explain words, why not go to modern English translations to see what the word means? To me, that would be a more logical step. I am truly trying to understand , not criticize anyone.

[@markwardonwords]

Right! So some are not willing, and my friend Bryan Ross has been talking about those folks on his channel.

[@georgesusmilch]

Absolutely wonderful! You are so well poised and articulate. If you only learned how to speak modern 'high' English like Aleister Begg, you would have a world-wide audience!

[@markwardonwords]

I could fake it!

[@bobbymichaels2]

In the end, I agree, do the update (but not retranslate). Thank you Mark for your concern and all your hard work. Trust that it would be done right is hard to get beyond.

[@markwardonwords]

Thanks for that.

[@captainnolan5062]

The argument that the language used in the KJV was never spoken by anyone, and that it was developed as a marketing ploy to compete with other good translations already on the market (like the Geneva Bible) is a really odd one to make. Further, how is the' ploughboy' to understand a language that has never been used by anyone and that is outdated in its use of 'thee' and 'thou' even before it was published? It is also a translation that, apparently, people began complaining about almost immediately, and certainly ever since the 1700s. These self defeating arguments are...self defeating. If people have been complaining about a translation for centuries, perhaps it is time (at the very least) to begin to think about an update.

[@somedude3601]

Sounds like the same Issue the Bishops had with the Geneva. I could be wrong though.

[@annakimborahpa]

If I was Manny Rodgriguez, I'd be honored to be referred as Manny Ramirez who was one of the best right handed batters in the history of Major League Baseball, praise God.

[@markwardonwords]

Right! That's where I got the name! Ha!

[@annakimborahpa]

Since you referred to yourself as a philologist in this video, does this mean you're rootin' for the Philadelphia Phillies to make it to the World Series or is this just some cream cheese on my part?

[@markwardonwords]

@@annakimborahpa You nailed it.

[@annakimborahpa]

Well, that's a-good knowin' I didn't spread it on too thick.

[@captainnolan5062]

Interesting that the people who say they are not interested in fame or money urge the listeners to buy their books.

[@markwardonwords]

I don't make this argument, because a) I really want to leave judging their motives to God himself, the only just Judge, and b) I don't want that argument pointed back at me; I wrote books I hope people will buy!

[@captainnolan5062]

@@markwardonwords I just noted it as "interesting". I to will leave their motives to themselves and God.

[@markwardonwords]

Then I agree with you! Interesting!

[@timwilkins2008]

The fact that they use "Us/Them" and war language such as "enemies" is deeply disturbing. I am not their enemy nor am I a "Them", I just do not hold their viewpoint. I am their fellow believer and a child of God/follower of Christ. The undertone of such language is hatred which is the antithesis of the love of Christ. It really does bother me.

[@davidsteinart]

I don't know if you read these comments and I don't know if this is even appropriate to say. I'm offering it in a thread that already has several hundred comments so that the Lord has quite a bit of cushion to providentially/circumstantially cause you to pass over it if it's not edifying. I appreciate your content very much but to speak frankly, you are very hard to listen to sometimes. I know your soft-spoken and self questioning manner is intended to communicate a spirit of humility and unity with people who are still your brothers, but it feels like you're putting it on sometimes. Since I don't believe that this is your actual intention and I know it is difficult to try to present ourselves the way we intend to be received, I would just encourage you that from one outsider's perspective, you would be better off saying things more plainly at times. I think your efforts at graciousness are noble and necessary, but it is not in keeping with the Lord's example to soft peddle correction towards those who lie or harm the body. May God bless you brother.

[@markwardonwords]

Pray for me! This is a tough challenge in my work. I, too, wonder if sometimes my gentleness is genuine. I know I can be/sound passive-aggressive. I pray for the fruit of the Spirit. This comment is appreciated.

[@markwardonwords]

I’ve got an additional thought to bounce off of you if you’ll contact me at byfaithweunderstand.com/contact.

[@davidsteinart]

Absolutely brother!

[@nicobrits5111]

The bottom line is: to the KJVO person the english translation is inspired even if they deny it. They would not make a revision on their own and would not accept anyone else to do it.

[@markwardonwords]

I must agree. But denying error sincerely is still better than embracing it openly.

[@syriacchristianity9007]

Thanks Mark for untangling these assertions!

[@markwardonwords]

My pleasure!

[@socksthemusicalcat]

I appreciate that they don't want to be lumped in with the likes of Gail Riplinger, and some of them rightly do not warrant that treatment, but it's hard to ignore when brother Ramirez's list of NKJV "omissions" matches Gail's standard list, not just in count, but in exact word order, with just a few skipped over, presumably for the sake of brevity.

[@markwardonwords]

Aha! Got a citation?

[@markwardonwords]

KZbin nixes your comments when you include links. Sometimes I get an email notification, sometimes I don't. This time I got to see the links you sent. I can't "undelete" your comments, though. For the benefit of others, here's what David said (KZbin lets me, the channel owner, post links): FROM DAVID THOMAS: She has a tract called the "NKJV Death Certificate" that has that list on the cover with a few more interspersed (web.archive.org/web/20221130181742/www.avpublications.com/avnew/downloads/PDF/Tracts/NKJV_tract.pdf). It's also in the appendix of her The Language of the King James Bible, page 146. I wouldn't be surprised if it's in New Age Bible Versions as well, but that one was a bit long with no helpful index and a relatively obscure table of contents for me to easily find it. Mark Ward The earliest example of that particular list in her work seems to be in the appendix of The Language of the King James Bible (1998, page 146). The full text PDF is hosted for free by Hyles-Anderson circle pastor Gregg Nash, with whom I am personally familiar through some kids' songs CDs he'd made and were gifted to my family for Christmas one year: nashpublications.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/King_James_Bible/Riplinger_Books/Language-of-the-KJB.pdf That appendix is also distributed in tract form, including the list: web.archive.org/web/20221130181742/www.avpublications.com/avnew/downloads/PDF/Tracts/NKJV_tract.pdf It's very, very frustrating to see people at the KJBRC repeat charges from wild-eyed conspiracy theorists like Riplinger without checking up on them. It is a species of dishonesty. I'm willing to say that. It's dishonesty by omission, however, and not by commission. I still can't believe that Rodriguez (not Ramirez, my bad!) did this on purpose. But when you call yourself a "Research Council" and fail to do very, very basic, easy homework that can actually be done mostly in English (I think especially of the words "lord/master" and "damnation/condemnation"), you bear blame.

[@socksthemusicalcat]

​@@markwardonwords Thanks, I mistook the first going missing to be a problem with my phone app, only to realize it was deleting them because of the links after the second was removed and was working on a third revision with the links scrubbed, but it's certainly better to have the documentation with the links. It's entirely possible that the list originated from a common source that I don't have access to because who knows how many KJVO books and pamphlets were put out in the 90s with small printings and limited distribution. Riplinger's typical research practices are incredibly flawed in a way that has to be either completely unhinged, intentionally deceptive, or (most likely) some combination of the two. For example, while scanning through New Age Bible Versions, I saw one quote attributed to Lewis Foster originating from his book "Selecting a Translation of the Bible" which is cobbled together with ellipses from two totally different sections, 55 pages apart, and the kicker is that she puts the part of the quote that comes from later in the book before the part that comes from earlier in the book. Because of things like that, I would not be surprised if she took someone else's list and republished it as her own, but it's definitely something she's put out there more than whoever else may have come up with it. Either way, the point still stands, because it's definitely in the spirit of how she does her work and nobody putting themselves forward as an authority on Bible translation has any business naively parroting such deceptive accusations. If I were trying to present myself as a non-Riplinger/Ruckman-ite KJV Defender, I would avoid using arguments and data peculiar to their work at all costs. That includes Flesch-Kincaid type readability analyses, which are discussed in the original edition of New Age Bible Versions (Chapter 11, pp. 195-196). Given that the book was published in 1993, I'm not sure it would have been possible for many earlier KJVO books to have done such an analysis, so I suspect she's the origin of that line of argumentation. Strangely enough, she explicitly lays out the mathematical formula for the "reading level" calculation but her only standard for "good" vocabulary is a low syllable count. In that analysis, she uses Matthew 1 as a representation of the book's readability, which is laughable, considering that a good chunk of it is a genealogy, while the entire rest of the book is narrative.

[@socksthemusicalcat]

@@AV1769 The specific examples used and their order are the same, which is what I find particularly suspicious

[@socksthemusicalcat]

@@AV1769 The point is that the list, which highlights NKJV "omissions" (updates to the KJV language) that sound theologically motivated but (for reasons discussed in Mark's commentary) really are not at all, seems to be uncritically lifted directly from a work which the KJBRC would disavow for being too extreme in its approach to the Bible translation issue.

[@katefields1]

22:01 I take great issue with the repeated assertion that the NKJV is wholly based on the TR. If it is truly and only the same text that the KJV is based on in today's common English, what meaneth then these footnotes, pointing to other texts and casting doubt, and these translations of words to something the TR does not say? As an example of word changes, look at Gen 17:7, where the NKJV renders the Hebrew word for "seed" as "descendents" (which is what almost every critical version uses). Galatians 3:16 points back to this verse, where Paul makes a pretty big deal about the word "seed" and how it is singular, but you'd never know it with this translation. Also, Acts 19:2. Why is Paul's whole question in the past tense? That is not what the King James says, and if you look at all the old TR-based Bibles, the question is always framed as whether they received the Holy Ghost AFTER or SINCE they believed in Jesus. But nearly every critical version asks if they received the baptism of the Holy Ghost (and implies speaking in tongues) at the moment they accepted Jesus as their Savior. So, those who say this is a TR-based work, did you? Are you saved as your Bible indicates, shown by speaking in tongues immediately when you came to Christ, or are you in an imperfect state of faith as those believers were? I am being sarcastic, but these are the little things that you have to look at if you are going to say this is a faithful, reliable, TR-based translation, worthy of basing your Christian walk on. These are just two examples. So, because of the changing of words, and especially the doubt-inducing footnotes, to me, this is not a faithful translation of the TR.

[@markwardonwords]

Sister, you are confusing text and translation. None of the differences you’ve named presume a different underlying text. You may disagree with some of the NKJV translators’ decisions (disagreements you did not discover, sister, but have repeated from others), but these are not differences of text. I challenge you to discover why your brothers in Christ who translated the NKJV made these choices before condemning them.

[@MAMoreno]

Genesis 17.7 isn't in the Textus Receptus. And the Hebrew word can mean either "seed" or "descendants." In Genesis, it means both. If you take it to refer only to Jesus and not to the Israelites as a whole, then most of the Old Testament makes no sense. And it must be noted the the NKJV translates Genesis 22.18 like so: "In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice." In the clause you mentioned from Acts 19.2, there is no variant between the TR and the CT, so the NKJV would have no alternative text to translate. No matter how you say it in English, it's _εἰ πνεῦμα ἅγιον ἐλάβετε πιστεύσαντες_ in Greek. And there isn't even a word in there to translate directly as "since" or "when," so it's all a matter of how you interpret πιστεύσαντες (lit. "having believed," as in Young's Literal Translation).

[@katefields1]

@@MAMoreno Touché, you are right. My bad.

[@katefields1]

@@markwardonwords Yes, you're right about the text vs. translation, so sorry about that. But I think your points bring my thoughts about it out more clearly. It's not a faithful translation (or let me add, presentation, or modernization) of the texts behind the KJV. If they wanted to simply update the KJV, using the same thoughts, they could have done it a lot more simply. As I see it, they should really take the KJV off the title.

[@markwardonwords]

@@katefields1 It's super rare for people to open their comments the way you did-thank you for this! It's Christian. I actually agree with you-and I've said the publicly in recent videos-that the NKJV was a missed opportunity to do an English-only update of the KJV.

[@hannahscarlettsmith7651]

Notice the poor last guy isn't getting any amens. 😶

[@markwardonwords]

RIGHT!

[@seekingthekingdomfirst]

@markwardonwords In this video and a few others you've mented that the NKJV and MEV are based on the same texts as the KJV. I want to point your attention to two others as well. A Conservative Version (which is in the public domain, published in 2012 by Still Voices Publishing) uses it and so does the 2013 edition of the ESV published by the Gideons. I wanted to point those out because these are also alternatives that might be helpful to you and others who view your channel.

[@markwardonwords]

Excellent! The ESV-TR I'm aware of; the other I hadn't heard of.

[@revcanada2147]

Since I’ve been Watching The Mark Ward Channel I have almost completely switched to reading the KJV . I understand it more and more with all these Videos !! It has Really helped me .

[@markwardonwords]

That’s the goal! Bible understanding!

[@TurtleTrackin]

I can usually read a couple of verses in the KJV with minimal difficulty. What gets me is in reading long sections I "lose tbe thread" of what I'm reading simply because I'm continually untangling the archaic language as I read. I like to read about 1-2 chapters in a sitting. I don't just cherry pick one or two verses.

[@markwardonwords]

Yes, I've had this experience, too.

[@MAMoreno]

Not all KJVO sermons are topical, but it's fairly common to hear a message that sounds like someone broke out the Thompson Chain-Reference Bible without giving much attention to the meaning of verses in their immediate context.

[@terencealbertmcbain8041]

I neither speak Greek nor Hebrew I rely on the information of the Pastors and translators to provide an accurate account of God's word.

[@markwardonwords]

I am shocked at how many Christians can't say this one, true, humble thing! Thank you for this!

[@almann7885]

I am sorry in this case, again we need to study the scriptures, and not to rely on pastures, bishops, and scholars when they don't express this as an issue. We must correctly and painstakingly at times rightfully divide the scriptures. So we have the opportunity to love the Truth.

[@markwardonwords]

Agreed!

[@Watchmanonthewall77]

Im doing an end time prophecy bible study with my family. My wife complains constantly because i read and lead the bible study with a kjv and nobody can keep up. I also find myself teaching and explaining the kjv almost as much as teaching the prophecy itself. Me and my wife got in an argument last week and she swiftly let me know that the bible study wasn't about me And my kjv. You know what? She's right. As a teacher, its not about me. Its about those receiving from me. So tomorrow, im going to buy a nkjv. On the flip side, like me, it seems to me these preacher's have forgotten that its not about them but those who have to receive. My wife and i have a street ministry, we hand out a lunch bag with a bible to homeless people in our town. I would never put a kjv bible in there hands because i don't know what their comprehension level is. I want them to read it not give up on it a chunk it. I just dont get these guys it seems so selfish to me. And that's coming from someone who has read the kjv for about 20 years. It seems to me they have made the kjv an idol of sorts. I may be wrong for saying that but that's what keeps going thru my mind as i watch this.🤷

[@Watchmanonthewall77]

I think it is also worth noting that I've seen the hell problem come up a few times in translation videos. I study a Dake study bible. He has an interesting chart in the back of his study bible that shows the different compartments of the underworld. Tartarus, Paradise and Hades. I think it is important to make the distinction between these in order to understand their purpose. He has scriptures in the chart to back up what their purposes are. One of them, paradise, is empty due to the release of that compartment when Jesus was crucified. You can see this in Matthew 27:51-53.

[@TONY19021965]

Too bad that neither you nor your wife understand or can obey the Bible, The Authorized King James Bible Conformable To The Edition Of 1611 A.D, for the husband to lead, and for the wife to be subject unto her own husband! But don't worry your modern apostate Laodicean bible perversions will make all of that much easier now, while The Lord Jesus Christ gets scrapped at the cost of your pride, and oh yeah the ease of readability! What a load! The language of God's word is definitely not that hard to comprehend with some simple subjection to God and some humble prayer! I raised 3 children from birth on that Bleesed Old Book, 1 of them with a learning disability. And currently have the privilege of seeing 6 grandchildren being raised on The Same Blessed Old King James Bible. Five of them on 2 different missionary fields. All the while learning both Hebrew and Arabic for 3 of them, while the other 2 are learning Spanish and Catalon. Attacking God's own perfect preserved words given by inspiration, and turning to the Laodicean apostate bible perversions will not yield any viable fruit for God. It will smooth things out a little with the honey, for a while but at what cost? "[6]The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. [7]Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. [8]The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted." Psalms 12:6-8 "[15]And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17]That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:15-17 "[5]Open rebuke is better than secret love. [6]Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. [7]The full soul loatheth an honeycomb; but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet." Proverbs 27:5-7 "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them." Psalms 119:165

[@stephenpeppin5537]

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Genesis 3:6

[@G.D.9]

Mark, in a nutshell, what is the main KJVO objection to using the MEV, for instance? I'm not familiar with it, so I wouldn't know if it had the footnotes like the NKJV that the KJVO hate so much. /// I've probably seen someone making a comment about the EOB-NT, would it be possible for you to review it some time? I'm currently reading thru this traslation and enjoying it, the intros and footnotes are very good.

[@curtthegamer934]

I would say that main KJVO objection is that it's not the KJV. But for those KJV-Onlyists who are a bit more open-minded, I'd say it comes down to preferring certain translations of phrases in the KJV over the readings in the MEV, even if the MEV has a more accurate or clearer rendering.

[@MAMoreno]

The MEV currently has very little in the way of text-critical footnotes, but that's because the rushed production of the translation resulted in few notes of any kind. The upcoming second edition (which is now slated for a fall release) may incorporate more notes. The objections to the MEV are the following: 1. It makes some of the same interpretive decisions as other modern versions. 2. It admittedly has a small number of problematic typos in its current edition. One example of a controversial reading is in Philippians 2.5-6: *Let this mind be in you all, which was also in Christ Jesus,* *who, being in the form of God,* *did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.* This phrasing is similar to that of the ESV and NASB, but it is different than the wording found in the KJV (and NKJV, for that matter): *Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:* *who, being in the form of God,* *thought it not robbery to be equal with God:* Supposedly, the MEV sounds as though it is questioning the divinity of Christ. I would respond by saying that the KJV's wording isn't any better on that front. Consider the far less ambiguous language of the CEB: "Though he was in the form of God, he did not consider being equal with God something to exploit" (cf. CSB, NRSV '89).

[@curtthegamer934]

@@MAMoreno By "did not consider equality with God something to be grasped," I think it's referring to Jesus being humble. It ties in neatly with the next verse, and is probably the reason it gets translated that way by most translations today, even though the KJV's rendering is possible as well.

[@a.w.virella7011]

The bus Kids are showing up again.

[@louistrouver2800]

“…the very meanest translation of the Bible in English…containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God.” (From the preface of the KJV, The Translators to the Reader) These words are from the very 1611 Bible they love. Even the KJV is against KJV-onlyism.

[@markwardonwords]

Right.

[@anthonykeve8894]

@louistrouver2800 Old news that demands repeating 1K to 100K times as loudly as possible! Unfortunately that’s sadly ignored and/or denied by the KJVO crown

[@nicobrits5111]

Bro Ramirez is exaggerating the false friends statistic. He takes all the words in the KJV and compares it to the number of false friends. One can just think how many of those words are and, in, is, are, was, were, etc etc.

[@Philisnotretired]

In view of the versions now available to us, the “readability argument” *FOR* the King James truly is ridiculous. I tend to stammer when I am nervous. Even when I am calm I struggle with she sells seashells by the seashore. When I was a new pastor (some 24 years ago) reading aloud all the “eth” and “est” endings would trip me up. My solution was to revise on the fly, essentially turning the KJV into the NKJV. There is no good reason for forcing people to struggle.

[@markwardonwords]

Right!

[@bobbymichaels2]

Many do not read the Bible in any translation because of the struggle.

[@KateGladstone]

Since the KJV-only churches are so opposed to translating anything if the year isn’t 1611, why don’t the KJV-only churches expel every pastor who does as you do ( translating for his hearers as he reads)? It’s because they realized long, long ago (but will never admit) that to ban translating is to ban understanding. If Phillip (in the Book of Acts) had thought as the KJV-only-ists think, he would never have asked or cared if the Ethiopian unit understood what he was reading in his Hebrew copy of scripture. Philip, thinking like a KJV-only-ist, would never have explained a single word of Hebrew scripture to the eunuch, but would have said only: “This book was inspired long ago in the language that you are now reading without understanding, so you must learn that language before you even try to understand, for it would be wrong of me to make it understandable. Above all things, seek first for the dictionary.”

[@KateGladstone]

Mark, I find particular importance and value in your account of how the “bus kids“ not only didn’t understand the words that they were repeating with their lips, but we’re angered and annoyed by the very idea that they should even want to understand what they were saying! One might say many things about a church or a creed or a movement and which it is taken for granted that one should repeat words without understanding, and that understanding is somehow not necessary or not even desirable (as long as one makes the proper speech-sounds) … But I would dearly like to know whether the KJV-only-ites (whose actions, or inactions, create and encourage that state of affairs) regard such a form of religion as desirable (within Christian practice, and more, especially with In protestant post reformation practice: to which they are psychologically and intellectually committed … or so I would have thought). Can you please ask them, Mark, why they consider it better to recite English words that one doesn’t understand than to recite, say, Latin words (or Sanskrit or Arabic or Hebrew or Greek words) that one doesn’t understand? Dare I ask, or dare you ask, the KJV-only-ists if they believe that Jesus or Paul or any of the apostles ever told anyone, anywhere, that salvation depended - or that it would someday depend - on learning the language of one’s remote ancestors (or of one’s pastor’s remote ancestors, if one’s own remote ancestors happen not to have spoken English?)

[@dhblue431]

I love your spirit, Mark. May the Lord continue to bless your family and ministry.

[@markwardonwords]

Thank you. Pray for me!

[@zachw755]

So this is a few months late to the party, but I actually have a story extremely sinilar to the last speaker's story about the girl that didn't know about what an "ass" was. I grew up on the KJB (I'm 30) and my family did some Bible study and such from it my whole young life, but i do distinctly remember one time where, for some reason that was probably good, i was reading through the story of Jesus entering Jerusalem to my brother who's a couple years younger than me. I was maybe 9? At any rate, I came to where it says Jesus was riding an "ass" and I replaced it with the much more couth word "butt" through the whole passage, thinking I was sanitizing the passage for my brother because *of course* "ass" isnt proper for me to say! Did my dad just not teach me well enough before I got to that word? I'm not sure. What I do know is that if he had been reading through it with us he would've laughed his butt off and then corrected me and I would've learned that lesson and not have been so confused by that passage. When I turned 15 I got a NKJV study Bible and really dove into studying the Word for myself, hard, and never looked back. I became interested in this topic over the last 6 months because my fiancé grew up in an actual KJVO family (which my dad wasn't despite using it). I've discussed much of the problems I have with that mindset with her dad in as friendly and kind a way I know how, talking about readability and textual criticism and how I can't seem to, no matter how hard I try, buy into the KJB being THE way that God has "preserved His Word" and that if you don't believe that you don't believe God keeps His Word. I find it completely unreasonable and overly simpifying the issue of preservation. I like the KJB. I will never use it, unless the Lord changes my mind drastically, as my study Bible again, and I'll never put it in the hands of my kids when they're old enough to read on their own, nor the hands of the kids that are part of the youth group I pastor. I don't hate it, but I do think its reasonable to say that it is outdated, and, frankly, I think the KJVO movement makes Christianity look foolish, but not over a good reason like the message of the Cross as in 1 Cor. 1. To call a translation inerrant and set it as the standard seems like a trap to me, even while I do believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. I really do. The Bible is what I try to base my whole life off of, having thoughtfully and prayerfully become the central pillar of my life, the Rock on which I stand and build. At the same time I can't sweep under the rug that the translators of ANY version are simply human and not the apostles reincarnated and can, indeed, make mistakes or errors in judgement. The KJB is not an exception so far as I can see, though I say so with trembling since I desire to know God through His Word, and if, as the KJVO crowd says, the KJB is the ONLY definitive word of God to English speaking people, I don't want to write it off as a trivial thing. I don't believe what they say, but I also want to have the best possible reasoning for why I don't. The whole thing with textual criticism and corrupted texts and such seems, by my admittedly limited direct research though I've heard a lot of teaching about it, backwards. It seems to me foolish that we would disregard earlier and earlier copies of NT texts outright in favor of "better preserved" copies from literally 600 to 1200 years later. To me it seems more likely that, with no malice involved, phrases or words were added, accidentally or otherwise, to the later texts than it is that the earlier ones were intentionally scrubbed of certain phrases or words. At any rate, this is a long post and you may not see it, but thank you for your work. I'm excited to start watching your "false friends" videos and seeing what my take on those are. I'm reasonably well versed in English, being someone that has always read like crazy and has always had a relatively huge vocabulary. Be blessed, Mark!

[@markwardonwords]

I read your story to my wife! We laughed so hard! And *this has been happening for two centuries.* Noah Webster said so in 1835. But people's attachment to traditional language is so, so strong! Thank you for your kind words!

[@dwmmx]

1:38:20-1:39:02 - A BOLD and CORRECT statement!

[@whattheheckification]

I’ve never been a part of a King James Only church. I only became aware this was a thing a few years ago. It makes me really sad to see the ways the enemy divides the body of Christ. Even something as silly as sticking to a 400 year old translation of the Bible. Even making the “conservative” view the wrong one. I consider myself conservative, but KJV-onlyism seems so nonsensical to me. How anyone could hold to it seems to me to only be the work of the enemy.

[@markwardonwords]

Silly ideas become more plausible when they validate your tradition and are shared by all you love.

[@keithfuson7694]

Why don't they smarten up and revise it? Such stupidity!

[@danielvso]

These fanatics tell so many lies. I don't believe they believe in their beliefs. I began a Sunday Bible reading with my sons using a kjv-like Portuguese version, and it was like Hebrew to them. We changed to a more contemporary version and the difference in understanding was huge.

[@markwardonwords]

I assue they DO believe in their beliefs, because I want them to assume the same of me. It's the Golden Rule!

[@stevegroom58]

Curious, that these speakers don't speak themselves using King James English.

[@markwardonwords]

Yes, I've often thought this!

[@WgB5]

Funny, this one chap claims that Morris saw the KJV as perfect. So why did Morris have such a big and in the development of the KJVer? It blows my mind when you say that you had no idea that halt could mean to go about as a cripple. I have known this definition all my life. As a child I had Polio. Sadly, my family had a different idea. As no "unclean thing" can be acceptable to God... Now I work on a farm, usually far away from prying eyes. I use leg braces when in public, not so gimpy that way.

[@markwardonwords]

I didn't know this-Morris was involved with the KJVer? That's a good tidbit to file away.

[@WgB5]

@@markwardonwords Go past Revelations, and you will find that he wrote some articles specifically for this rendition of the KJV. One of the things I like about the KJVer is that all the articles are in the back. There is enough stuff back there to fill out the volume of the NT. Too many outfits splash their articles throughout the text, making it hard to read the actual scriptures.

[@danbrown586]

You repeatedly express surprise that KJVO proponents aren't curious about the reasons for disagreements among the translations, but surely you already know the answer, and that is that it doesn't matter. To them, the KJV is the standard. That's their beginning point, and (with very rare exceptions) they cannot and will not defend it (i.e., by rational, evidence-based argument). Anything that differs from that standard, however slightly, is wrong. But more frustrating to me (and surely much more so to you, since you actually respond to it) is the consistent and utter failure to actually address the arguments that are made. Ramirez doesn't even try to address the readability issues with the KJV--he categorically denies them, he strawmans them, but he doesn't actually address them. And if they're claiming to address the issue of readability, while not addressing the arguments made on that question, I see only three possibilities: (1) they've made no (or at least insufficient) attempt to understand those arguments; (2) they lack the mental capacity to understand those arguments; or (3) they're being dishonest. I want to be charitable to them--a grace they do not, by and large, reciprocate, preferring instead to attribute all sorts of evil motives--but I can't see any other alternative, and none of these sounds very charitable.

[@markwardonwords]

Yes, those three options have occurred to me, as I'll bet you could have already guessed. But I decided a long time ago that I was very unlikely to be able to know in any given case which one was the right explanation, so I've been mostly content to pose the question: why do these brothers so rarely express curiosity about the reasons their brothers behind the NKJV made the choices they did? They will have to, before God, examine the reasons for their failure. God will judge us both.

[@dwmmx]

1:29:13 - "Miniscule" - see this work for a robust compilation of difficult terms in the AV: "4,114 Definitions from the Defined King James Bible"

[@JonahGambrel]

Brother Mark is such a treasure. I’m not trying to be the teachers pet brethren, just speaking facts.

[@TONY19021965]

Such a treasure: let's burry it!

[@maxwellhufford7115]

Appreciate your work Mark!

[@markwardonwords]

Thanks for watching!

[@auadisian]

New is bad? Then let's stick to the Geneva Bible!

[@markwardonwords]

Right! Or the Vulgate!

[@auadisian]

I'd rather stick with Greek!

[@jamesjacobs8594]

I’d take these guy’s arguments a little more seriously if even one of them didn’t have a tone of arrogance and condescension. These positions and types of argumentation caused me to not read my Bible for years and threw doubts in to my own salvation because the idea that if you can’t understand the av you weren’t truly saved.

[@markwardonwords]

I don't think Dan Haifley had that tone in this address. But, yes, I hear that in others. Of course, they hear it in me. It's difficult to hear one's opponents in a debate objectively.

[@tony.biondi]

Brilliant! Thank you.

[@markwardonwords]

My pleasure!

[@AmosAAnderson]

The primary reason I don't think they will be able to get together and agree on an update is because each individual has their own ideas on what is acceptable and not acceptable to update. The comment on the Simplified KJV is a perfect example of that. Because of their "things that are different are not the same" mentality even if they all got together to update the KJV they'd either end up with an English text that is the KJV or they'd end up going their separate ways due to differences. "Seed" vs "offspring" is how they'd all see their own pet peeves. I hope I'm wrong. For some of these very same reasons the updates, like the Simplified KJV, often end up leaving in false friends. An example is "Study" in 2 Timothy 2:15 in the SKJV. It's one that would have to be left because many KJV onlyists make a big deal out of keeping the word due to their own misunderstanding. It's my understanding this is how the NKJV was being worked on. KJV onlyists from the Independent Baptist group were asked to assist but they left early on in the process due to differences.

[@markwardonwords]

I don't disagree. I think these brothers have a lot of hurdles to overcome. But if they want to obey the Bible, they should try!

[@lannyfaulkner6697]

Thank you Brother Mark for all of this work. I find your videos (and I am also reading your book) to be irenic as well as scholarly. I left the IFB many years ago and I was never KJV only, but I have encountered (and still do) those who hold that error to one degree or another. Again, thank you for your work.

[@dwmmx]

13:53 - As a bus kid with many years' experiences similar to yours, Mark, I 100% resonate with this

[@markwardonwords]

✔

[@timothymcclory2272]

Thank you so much for this, brother. There aren't words to express my gratitude to hear these things. I felt the shackles falling off and the Holy Spirit speaking to me even beyond the things you discussed. Thank you for missing family TV time and doing this even though you were tired and it was late. October 10th is a day I will always remember as a day when the LORD moved in my heart much like the day I was saved. God used you in a major way to answer prayers I've been praying. The LORD make his face shine upon you!

[@markwardonwords]

And Oct 10 is my birthday! I’m glad to hear this. But take your time, brother.

[@thatmusicalex]

It should be worth mentioning that the vast majority of english speakers learn it as a second language. If KJV is hard for natives, think of how much more a barrier it is to our ESL friends.

[@markwardonwords]

Right. This is something I should spend more time on.

[@russell13904]

One time l made that point and l was more or less accused of being racist. Much like the discourse on bus kids vs seminary professors made a veiled accusation of intellectual snobbery.

[@shaunjulian8062]

Mark, you've helped and challenged me. This issue is rumbling in my church and it's very easy to allow the flesh to respond. Your calm, grace filled approach and attitude is the right way. Thanks for showing me how to take a chill pill.

[@markwardonwords]

“The servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.” (2 Timothy 2:20-26 KJV) I've long been unsure how directly I want to apply the "snare of the devil" comment to KJV-Onlyists. They sure don't seem to be in that bad of a state. But even against opponents who really were in a demonic trap, Paul counseled patience and meekness. God help us!

[@hukes]

Is the sign language man really saying all the speaker is saying? I don't see as much information coming from him. Or a sign is worth a thousand words.

[@markwardonwords]

No idea!

[@CalebRichardson]

Great to see this progress!

[@markwardonwords]

Right!

[@jg-ro3yx]

I've messaged you before, & you have changed my mind on a lot! I love too study words, & find out the ture meaning.. I go to a King James only Church, when I preach, I give out the true meaning of the Word. Keep up the good work! I love the King James Bible, but I'm using NLV, ESV & am enjoying it!

[@markwardonwords]

Love it!

[@jeffdove6917]

Could you respond to the video from counsel and might by Dr. George Antonios. KJV VS Other Versions & why you're reading a Jehovah's Witness/Catholic Bible It makes many good points and is hard to refute for KJV only.

[@markwardonwords]

No plan to do so.

[@TurtleTrackin]

They keep using the term "transition" and "transitioners" and you know what they're trying to do. They're trying to make you think of something else in this context.

[@markwardonwords]

I leave it to them to explain whether they intend any connection. I noticed the same possibility.

[@clark_woodson]

23:30 the Textus Receptus is not a good text, it is the BEST text. The Critical Text is a hybrid, late 1800s mix-and-match from two questionable texts (Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus). How can one trust two texts that contradict each other in the four Gospels alone more than three thousand times?…

[@markwardonwords]

My friend, the New King James Version and the Modern English Version both use the same underlying Hebrew and Greek texts as the King James. And they translate those texts into fully intelligible contemporary English, which means they meet the principle of 1 Corinthians 14, edification requires intelligibility. I recommend the NKJV and MEV to you.

[@russell13904]

The claim that false friends are rare just goes to show how falsely friendly they are! I'd estimate l notice at least one per sermon or one per chapter. How many more am l missing? If this brother is not noticing that many, what does that say about how well the KJV is edifying him?

[@petermillist3779]

“Enemies of the KJV”? Who’s lumping who here?

[@markwardonwords]

Yeah, good question! ;)

[@dwmmx]

1:42:08-1:44:09 - Can confirm, via our Church missionaries to the Indigenous People of SD, that this is 100% accurate

[@sbs8331]

Mark knows groups like this way more than I do, and I admire his optimism regarding their acceptance of a KJV revision, but, sadly, I don't share it for at least a couple of reasons. First, though the last speaker seemed somewhat amenable to some (too) slight changes, there was a noticeable lack of response from the audience...no "amen"s like with earlier speakers. I infer that this gentleman was a voice crying in the wilderness. Second, it was actually tried before. In the 1960's the New Scofield Reference Bible was published that not only updated the study notes, but, to the chagrin of IFBs, dared to replace a miniscule number of words within the text in brackets, giving the original reading in the margin, e.g. "prevent" to "precede" in 1 Thes 5:15 (but not "study" in 2 Tim 2:15). Even these very minor adjustments were wholly rejected by the KJVOs. That may have been six decades ago, but I haven't seen enough additional flexibility from that group to make me think a revision is viable. I hope I'm wrong and appreciate this presentation.

[@markwardonwords]

May God help them! You, too, may be right. Surely you are describing many, many people. But a new generation is rising up in KJVO circles, and I hear from them almost every day. I sense change in the air.

[@curtthegamer934]

And the irony is that I've seen many KJV-Onlyists use the old Scofield Reference Bible (I've seen them post pictures of it open with verses highlighted, and I recognize it instantly because my Mom has had a Scofield Bible longer than I can remember), and that particular Bible has gap theory promotion in the footnotes.

[@sbs8331]

​@@markwardonwords I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

[@sbs8331]

@@curtthegamer934 Most IFBs are dispensationalists, and many of them hold to the gap theory based on Scofield / Chafer, though that's somewhat irrespective of the KJV-only translation issue.

[@curtthegamer934]

@@sbs8331 I actually don't know of many KJV-Onlyists who believe in the gap theory. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are the Shepherd's Chapel guys and the Jesus-Is-Savior website guy. The former is a blasphemous cult, and the latter is a wackadoodle who doesn't even stay consistent within the same articles (and actually has some articles where he says he's not a Christian at all), so neither of those are indicative of mainstream KJV-Onlyism.

[@ozrithclay6921]

KJVonly feels kind of Amish. "Why use a nail gun (modern translations) when you could work harder with a hammer(kjv)? You should work needlessly harder to do the same job to prove your piety."

[@markwardonwords]

There is truth here for some people. I think I was one of those people. I think there's still something of this in me.

[@ozrithclay6921]

I also was a KJVonly back when I was a teenager. My younger brother is one now. But the strangest thing happened when I found your videos and planned to "disprove the KJV" to him. I actually came to love the KJV again. And I've dropped my other "goto" translation. So now I'm reading many translations (kjv, csb, esv, net, niv, nlt, and more) to get as wide a perspective as I can. And what I told my brother today is "if all those translators all agree on a verses' meaning, we can take it as a greater assurance that the translators were correct and honest." Lol, I started by saying the KJVonly people like doing things the hard way, and I think I just proved I do that more than they do.

[@JR-lg7fd]

Ironically, I have Amish friends who don't have as much of a KJV only view. and they are quite Amish. although they do mostly preach and read in german.