Everything Went Wrong - The Tragedy of HMS Thetis - Submarine Disaster (1939)

HMS Thetis was the first of Britain's T class submarines - the answer to Nazi Germany's U Boats. Seemingly doomed from the start, she sank during her sea trials, with over 100 men on board. Sitting in shallow, calm water, the rescue should have been a simple affair. But everything that could go wrong, did go wrong...... This is the tragic and controversial story of the HMS Thetis disaster.
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[@ann-mariegreen633]

My grandfather was on the Thetis and my mum never got over it. It really destroyed her life. We live in Australia so thank you for honouring my dear grandfather. My mum suffered so much. She passed away just recently she would love that you keep this Alive. Thank you for telling what really happened. Xx

[@Alex-rv9cv]

my great great uncle was also on this submarine 🙏🏼

[@richardmillican7733]

I live near holyhead. My father's grave is about 200 meters from the Thetis grave and memorial. Maeshyfryd Cemetery. Holyhead.

[@RalphBrooker-gn9iv]

I’m really sorry. God bless you all.

[@stuartmiller7419]

When a young lad's bicycle tyre failure and an over zealous painter are the weak spots in your safety process, you know you had no safety process. Another brilliant post. Thanks.

[@crankychris2]

In 1963 the nuclear sub Thresher sank as she approached 1000 feet, no survivors. Five years later the nuclear sub Scorpion was lost, under peculiar circumstances. Neither sub went through the SUBSAFE program strongly advocated by Adm Rickover who is considered the 'father' of the US nuclear sub program.

[@kinggremlin4574]

Those aren't acceptable excuses for my neighbor. For a national military? I don't care if it was 1939. It's beyond unbelievable.

[@ShaunieDale]

I believe there was supposed to be a pricker that could be pushed through the stopcock in the torpedo tube door to prove it was clear. I can’t remember the reason why it was not used. I’m amazed the latches on the door were not of the over centre type, if fitted then it would have been possible to just crack open the door and force it shut against the pressure of a shallow immersion.

[@dancarter6044]

You'd think something as critical and potentally dangerous as torpedo tubes would be gone over every day

[@andrewellison9639]

My family lived in Crosby, Liverpool at the time. My late father seldom spoke about the war but I remember him telling me about the Thetis. His take on it was that it was an example of what he termed the upper class "educated idiots" and their callousness towards the common men. Apparently this was the feeling on the ground at the time.

[@temerityxd8602]

One thing you forgot to add was that as a result of this disaster submarine torpedo tubes began to to be fitted with "Thetis clips" a safety device that would prevent a torpedo tube door from opening fully in the event of the outer doors being open.

[@DaughterofLir]

Yes! I'd forgotten about those. Such a simple fix and yet so important.

[@MoultrieGeek]

Of all the tragedies you have so expertly covered this one was the most shocking to me. As a former sailor I knew full well the inherent dangers of the job but never did I think my own service would be the cause of my death just to save a few pennies. How cold, calculating and utterly inhumane this is and I sincerely hope those responsible were haunted by the memories of 99 needless deaths.

[@thomaskositzki9424]

As if refitting the pressure hull after it was cut open was so completely impossible. F***ing c***s in the Admirality.

[@jamesm3123]

I doubt it.

[@obfuscated3090]

@@thomaskositzki9424 The hull was of riveted construction which was standard in an era where arc welding was in its infancy. That means it would be relatively easy to repair with the same equipment used to build it.

[@sometimesleela5947]

I usually don't give people the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps the thinking was that making an uncloseable hole would cause it to sink immediately if the sub shifted and the hole became immersed.

[@efnissien]

My Grandfather was actually scheduled to have been one of the Cammell Laird crew on the Thetis, but my Grandmother apparently had nightmares of him in a small space that was filling with water, so she forbade my Grandfather to go and he swapped for a future sailing (she was a very strong willed woman). Co-incidentally, my Grandparents were from Holyhead originally and only moved to Liverpool during the depression and moved back to Holyhead just before the outbreak of war. As kids, the shed were the bodies were initially placed was still standing (if slightly derelict) and we used to hop over the port wall to explore... it was one of the creepiest places I've ever been. Also, as a marine cadet in the local detachment, I was one of the honour guards on the mass grave on the last 'official' annual memorial that was backed by the RN in 1989 at Maeshyfryd cemetery Holyhead. The three Thetis survivors all attended (Woods died in a motercycle accident in the 40's).

[@theravenseye9443]

Interesting read, thanks for posting.

[@efnissien]

@@theravenseye9443 One thing I forgot, following the sinking, to prevent inner torpedo tube hatches being fully opened while there was water in the tube, a locking device was fitted that held the hatch closed. To this day it's know as the 'Thetis clip'.

[@gryph01]

Thanks for sharing.

[@suzyqualcast6269]

I thought Cammel Lairds craft building river front yards were next door to the old monastery, Birkenhead side of The Mersey ?

[@efnissien]

@@suzyqualcast6269 - yup, but the whole area is referred to as "Liverpool' (Along with Wallasey and most of the Wirral peninsular) by folks from my area.

[@usagi32211]

This was the most unfortunate series of events I think I've ever heard of. Everything that could possibly go wrong did.

[@TracyA123]

Agreed. I thought my luck was bad but omg those poor people😞

[@darabennett4316]

This, the Tokyo kanto district earthquake/fire/tornado, and the Halifax explosion, all have the perfect ingredients for a disaster cake. Note: it tastes like shit.

[@20chocsaday]

How about K13 later K26 ?

[@change_your_oil_regularly4287]

You've never heard of this event? I'm surprised as there are many uploads/docs about it.

[@raviarjuna9839]

I think this was the K class sub. Steam powered.

[@FinnishLapphund]

It's hard to believe something so simple as paint, and the painter doing the painting, affected not only 1 part of this story, without more.

[@gryph01]

I have found that most tragedies do not occur by a singular event. Rather, it is a series of events. The paint was a bad one. But the other events of delays, not sending proper support, keeping extra passengers in board is what turned an accident into a tragedy

[@iffracem]

@@gryph01true, and in this case it seems that nobody, from from a basic torpedoman, to weapons officer, ships commander... anyone had picked up the painting error at all? I'm an ex soldier, not a sailor and certainly no idea of submarine equipment, but you can usually see quite easily when something like excess paint could cause issues. Too easy for me with perfect 20/20 hindsight, but there loos to be a fundamental problem with routine inspection/testing involved as well, esp considering torpedoes and the handling/operation of them and their firing is fundamental to submarines

[@chrisedwards4917]

My great great uncle was an engineer for Cammell Lairds and was on board when she sank. His daughter who was a child waved the submarine goodbye with her skipping rope as she sailed for the first and last time down the river Mersey.

[@cmonkey63]

Finally, an episode that doesn't involve fire! My grandfather was a submariner, and growing up I often thought of the fate of so many who perished in those iron coffins.

[@DevonRefSM]

as a submariner I'm always thankful that steel was used, not iron... and they are not coffins per se...

[@TheGreenarrow88]

Submarine tragedies hit different, since when something goes wrong you're more or less screwed.

[@annnee6818]

Awful. Just the worst. Gives me vicarious anxiety.

[@TracyA123]

It's horrifying

[@melbournestreetdrummermsd3202]

The voice of the Raven's Eye, that tone and delivery of all the details described perfectly how one lousy shamble after another resulted in a tragedy so sad and very morbid. Personally, this is the best video on the HMS Thetis dive attempt. Thanks.

[@theravenseye9443]

Thanks for the great comment, appreciate it.

[@TracyA123]

Agreed

[@robertwilson123]

The announcement of the loss of the crew and visitors of HMS Thetis, opened with the statement "The Admiralty Regrets" .. This opening statement is the title of a book on the Thetis disaster by CET Warren and James Benson.

[@mikec7108]

I bought a copy of this book recently. Very detailed and highly recommended.

[@TracyA123]

What a haunting way to die! I was aware of this tragedy but I had no idea of the decision taken by the Admiralty. Those photos of the stern on the surface are beyond terrifying. Also, keep in mind that the sub looks to be at an angle of more than 45°. That alone would make rescuing the civilians on board near to impossible. I can't imagine how horrid it was for those poor souls. Incredibly well done video sir! 👍☺ A very sad subject respectfully done.

[@annehersey9895]

Thank God, most of them passed out from carbon dioxide so didn't have to go through the horror of drowning!

[@worldcomicsreview354]

​@@annehersey9895I think dying from carbon dioxide is worse than drowning

[@annehersey9895]

@@worldcomicsreview354 As someone who has spent probably a fourth of my life in water, I have a healthy respect for it’s power and a great fear of what can happen when things go wrong. With carbon dioxide you fall asleep/pass out before you die. Both are horrible and I hope to die in my own bed with a smile on my face.

[@kenneybis1097]

I can't imagine the terror of that second doomed crew knowing the sub had already claimed the lives of 99.

[@divinita6012]

That's messed up that they sacrificed all those people just to keep ONE ship that they could have probably fixed later. I really hate the people who put lives secondary to objects or other such things that can be replaced.

[@kyliepechler]

And also ruined the lives of the wives and children of those 99 men, who died needlessly as well.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

would saving these 99 lives possibly lead to the deaths of many more in wartime with such calculations, you do have to account for the total overall cost. With a limit on time until the war, it is unlikely a full replacement could have been built... whilst here, they saved the vehicle fairly quickly. even with the thought process as presented *(which I believe to be the least favorable scenario) this might not be such an unreasonable calculation... I would not be assured either way.

[@chatteyj]

@@stanislavkostarnov2157 Its a horrible decision to have to make, I did wonder if cutting a hole in the hull would make the vessel as good as scrap. Is it really impossible to repair a hole after creating one to rescue the men?? I'm guessing the answer is yes, but we would need to speak to a welder or marine engineer for the answer.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

​@@chatteyj from my understanding of the technology of the time (my grandfather worked with some of the kinds of techniques that were needed for early submarine construction), the pressure hulls at the time were basically cast rather than made by joining of parts, effectively, the outer hull was blown out of whatever alloy, that is, made not so unlike a giant glass jar that is being created by a factory sized glass blower.... at least, that's how it was in the 50s soviet union, which was about 1.5 decades behind on such technology.

[@obfuscated3090]

@@chatteyj It was not merely possible but practical and common shipyard practice to repair battle damage.

[@tonyjones99]

My wifes uncle and others had the grim task of removing the bodys from the Thetis at Holyhead drydoch, Very very sad.

[@jackiefilshie8390]

One of the bodies would have been my uncle, my mum’s older brother. She was about 5 at the time of the tragedy. He was 18.

[@royfearn4345]

Sadly, in certain situations including military command structure, life is cheap. I was already aware of the Thetis disaster but had no idea that the early notion of cutting through the stern plates was rejected by the Admiralty in order to avoid damaging the vessel, while ignoring the fate of the human lives dying slowly through serial incompetence. Disgusting.

[@suzyqualcast6269]

Life was cheap and plentiful back then, ta to the permit of conscription, the authorities had awarded themselves.

[@TabuKat]

Thanks for covering this disaster, it hasn't gotten much attention. Those poor men, I wonder how many guessed that sub might be their tomb.

[@GrahamWalters]

As a submariner, ex RN, I can tell you that these men did not die in vain, it is thanks to them and their selfless act that as a submariner in the modern navy I was given dedicated training on how to escape from a sunken submarine. Also, now in every RN submarine there is what is known as the "Thetis Clip" on each tube door, this clip holds a rod that is used to test the test hole in the tube is clear of all debris, before opening the rear door. tubes now are also tagged as "flooded" or "Dry" all the time, there are also interlocks, stopping the rear door being opened if the bow doors are open. Every trainee going through the submarine training school is taught about the Thetis, and other subs, lessons were learned. What you also have to remember is that the country was on the brink of war, and the "cover up" you speak of, may have been done to protect hundreds of other sailors and submariners, what risk would those men have been at, if was admitted you could sink a sub with a well-placed coat of paint?

[@jackiefilshie8390]

My uncle lost life on The Thetis. My mum was about 5 at the time. No consolation to the relatives of the men lost. By the sound of it this disaster was avoidable. No compensation was ever paid.

[@richardrose9943]

And what should that matter to you

[@obfuscated3090]

That would have not been news to the Axis as submarine construction including torpedo tube hatch joints were not new to them nor would shipyard security.

[@mambagr]

They didn't have to die for lessons to be learned. They died in vain. One hole at the stern would have been enough to save many.

[@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684]

@bobbyhunter5026 The crew would not have been rescued by "cutting the sub open". That is purely a nonsense conclusion reached by "raven Eye" due to his lack of knowledge of submarine construction.

[@JGCR59]

The T Class had such a weird bow because the intent was to have the biggest possible spread of torpedoes imaginable. With the 6 internal, and 2 external bow tubes and 2 midships external tubes this sub class could theoretically launch ten torpedoes at once, which was seen as necessary as the intended target (unrestricted submarine warfare being un english and such) were enemy warships moving at high speed.

[@spartan09_Oni]

true, but the original bulbous bow covering the external bow tubes made handling in rough seas difficult. HMS Triumph had the external bow tubes removed when she was rebuilt after hitting a mine on the surface on 26th December 1939. the mine blew 18 feet off the bow and cracked the inner pressure hull, but the 8 loaded torpedo tubes did not detonate. (bit fascinated with the T-class, and Triumph in particular as my great grandfather served aboard Triumph after her rebuild, during her time in the mediterranean)

[@scum5]

My 91 year old Great Aunt remembers this happening when she was a child living in Liverpool. Her older brother served on a T-class, Triad, but was killed along with his entire crew when the sub was hit and sunk in the Med in 1940. The Thetis was repaired and commissioned Thunderbolt in 1940. In 43 she met a similar fate to Triad and now lies 1500m under the Mediterranean sea along with her whole crew.

[@suzyqualcast6269]

Double coffin load, then. Was the steel bedevilled, I wonder. With Respect.

[@RalphBrooker-gn9iv]

I was born and grew up in Gosport in 61. Still a close knit submarine community back then. My father, who worked at RNPL, spoke of the disaster. Dreadful. I always felt intimidated by HMS Dolphin’s diving tower. I joined the Army. I’m sorry for these losses. I couldn’t do that job. ⚓️

[@felixthecleaner8843]

wow - what a sad story - and as someone below pointed out they were perched at a 45 degree angle.. and probably in the dark too when systems started to turn off... imagine being alive for 36 hours or so at an angle with everyone else who also fell into piles of other people and then you need to use the toilet facilities where the floor is now a tilted wall....an absolutely horrific way to die. May they all be Resting In Peace.

[@blackhawkorg]

Rest in Peace Excellent presentation. Never heard of this one before either. So many channels fall short trying to tell horror stories. The truth is so much more macabre. Well done.

[@tihspidtherekciltilc5469]

I'm trying to put myself there knowing there's a tool I could use to give time and possibly communication with someone's ego in the way. "I quit!" Grabs torch and cuts hole so the giant sea cucumber can breath like one. "Seriously, it's a hunk of metal and it's currently killing people." 100 years and not a thing has changed.

[@stephenwilkinson3588]

Interesting and informative video.Been doing Family history for a few years and recently found out a distant cousin on my Mother's side,Joseph Charles Hughes was a cook on board Thetis when the accident happened.

[@m.streicher8286]

There were tools to poke the inspection holes, they just weren't used on that occasion.

[@steveclarke6257]

My father served on HMS Thrasher and he mentioned this to me as a boy, and I have a keen interest in submarines. He said doing the DSEA training was one of the hardest things to pass on, so don't be too critical of men who panicked trying to escape. The Thetis saga is one of an increasing series of cock-ups. Starting with the sloppy "maintenance", then having far too many people on board for a trial sailing (many who were not trained in the use of DESA) of a new vessel, then the crew not closing all watertight doors before submerging (that is definitely the fault of the officers and crew on board)- all this before the vessel actually attempted it's trial submerging. Then the botching of whole of the salvaging operation is another saga, they could have had 3 salvage tugs there in 12 hrs. On the whole your assessment is correct that men could have been saved with more prompt action; however your assessment that cutting a large man sized hole in the stern plating would not have worked as well as you think, as it may have made the internal flooding situation worse not better (,it was recorded she was taking on water at 135 tons per hour by the trapped crew, and the pumps could only deal with 70). They actually tried to do the operation you noted in the video, but there was an escape of air and it caused the boat to twist violently in the tide. Welding on some hose attachments first and then cutting two smaller hose attachments to ventilate the vessel (an air in and air out with pumps on the tugs to recirculating the air) may have worked better than a single man sized hole you suggested- as you could apply over pressure to stem further flooding- but it may be moot point by the time people caperble were in place to try that strategy as many men were probably already dead of asphyxiation. Ultimately the crew was doomed by the tide breaking the cables holding the stern above water and that's when it finally sank

[@geoffreycodnett6570]

I think your points are perfectly valid. Cutting a hole with the torpedo tube hatch open wouldn't have helped. It's too easy to think it easy to keep a station on the place of sinking but the currents in Liverpool Bay and around Anglesey are difficult to judge and sat nav didn't exist back then.

[@sentinel7122]

Great job as always, man, you're really the best out there. I personally take every one of these to heart as both a seasoned industrial equipment designer, and therefore as someone expected to speak up on account of others' safety. Of course, I'd be lying if there wasn't also a bit of morbid curiosity as well, but the work you do on these is so important for real reasons. Thank you!

[@one_step_sideways]

Just got recommended to watch the Ufa train disaster and i see you've uploaded a new video just 6 minutes ago. I, too, have not heard about the Ufa disaster until right now.

[@ArmedSpaghet]

One does not simply paint over a testing tube on a multi million pound cost submarine.

[@sthenzel]

Of course not. But what skill level does a painter really need to slosh some paint on something that doesn´t have to be pretty? Or better, which skill level is the shipyard willing to pay for such a job?

[@RatPfink66]

In 1939, one did. Naval engineers didn't concern themselves with low-level functions like painting. Nor did the installation of steering gears or bow planes seem to come under their purview.

[@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684]

Being a Liverpool lad born in the 1960s I've been aware of the Thetis disaster most of my life. I knew a lot of the information regarding the tragedy, but your video has provided some more for which I thank you. In all fairness to the rescuers the idea that a gas cutting crew could cut open the back of the exposed submarine hull and rescue the crew trapped inside is an unfortuante non-starter due to a lack of understanding regarding submarine construction. The 1.6cm thick steel projecting out of the waters of Moelfre Bay was the "outer casing" of the sub, which provided the sub with its streamlined shape to ease its passage through the sea, and which also acted as a protective cover for the various ballast & high pressure air tanks as well as spare torpedo storage tubes that were positioned outside of the sub's "pressure" hull. Cutting through that outer casing would NOT have allowed access to the crew, as they were within the sub's pressure hull, the cigar like tube inside of the outer casing which is actually where the crew and guests were trapped. The steel of a T-Class submarine's pressure hull was somewhere in the region of 3 inch (76.2mm) thick high strength steel alloy and would have been impossible to cut with the gas cutting equipment onboard the rescue boats. This would have been the reason for the cutting into the stern to have been discounted, and your conclusion that it was a decision taken to "save money" and keep the submarine "intact for further use" is YOUR conclusion and not the basis of the decision. You also could have mentioned some of the safety recommendations that came from the admiralty investigation, including the device that is still to this day known as the "Thetis clip". But thank you for an interesting video.

[@theravenseye9443]

Thanks for the info - but even so, surely it would have been possible to breach the outer hull in order to drill a hole through the pressure hull to get fresh air pumped into the sub...?

[@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684]

@@theravenseye9443 The pressure hull finished way short of the back of the outer casing and would have been below sea level so requiring specialised underwater cutting equipment to drill through 3 inches of what was effectively high strength steel armour plating in horrendous cramped conditions. I'm not even sure such equipment even existed at that time. P.S But I've still subscribed to your excellent channel as there is a lot of content that I've never come across before. All the best.

[@kimmuckenfuss2284]

Thanks so much for this video. For some reason, I've always had a keen interest in submarines. I've never heard of this disaster, & this story beggars belief! The situation of the HMS Thetis is both tragic & pathetic (pathetic in regards to the ones in power that decided the salvage value of the sub outweighed the lives of the occupants). For shame.

[@temerityxd8602]

While a lot of mistakes were made in the course of this disaster I don't think it's right to simply say those in command chose the sub over the crew. First off the air trapped in the stern was what was keeping it buoyant and I believe there fears that cutting holes into the hull could cause the air to escape and it's also plausible that they didn't want the submarine damaged when it seemed like it would be possible to simply bring an air hose down to a hatch which would allow them to save both crew and sub. Ultimately their decisions not to cut into the sub was probably wrong but hindsight is 20/20 and it's easy to criticize them when we have all the information.

[@obfuscated3090]

@@temerityxd8602 The sub could have been connected by hawsers/chains/cables to a suitable surface vessel or if available barge or pontoon. That was common in salvage operations at which the Navy had plenty of experience.

[@temerityxd8602]

@@obfuscated3090 Salvage is different to rescue and I don't think they had time to bring in a barge or pontoon and the sub was in a pretty awkward position, it probably would have been hard to attach anything to it in such a way that would prevent it from sinking and attaching a ship to another ship that is in danger of sinking can be hazardous.

[@deanothemanc5281]

Not one of our proudest moments, absolutely shocking decision to save the sub rather than her crew. Yes they were hard challenging times, all the same totally avoidable. RIP to all her crew. Outstanding narrative, albeit a terribly sad story.

[@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684]

You can safely disregard Raven Eye's incorrect conclusion regarding not cutting into the submarine. It had NOTHING to do with cost cutting or keeping her ready for future war use, and everythinf to do with Raven Eye's lack of knowledge of submarine construction, and the practical impossibility of rescuing the crew by cutting into her hull.

[@TheGodParticle]

WW2 mentality, sadly just a chip off the iceberg.

[@HBolus]

Captain Guy Bolus is a distant relative of mine and my father has lots of info on this disaster. Leaving the men there to suffocate is akin to manslaughter. Terrible waste of human life that could have been avoided.

[@oneginee]

This is a shameful story, they were only in 6 meter deep water, a child could easily escape. They just didn't have the guts to try, although some did. The captain is highly responsible for not knowing the depth they were in. 6 meter is not that difficult to swim up through in normal conditions, but to save ones life, it should be a piece of cake. How lame !! ! This should be national shame.

[@jamesupton4996]

A few years ago the BBC did a very powerful radio play about this tragedy.

[@nigelwright850]

I read the book many years ago and have visited Holyhead to see the graves. This is a very accurate and well presented account.

[@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684]

Fairly accurate...one glaring error.

[@wtorules4743]

A really fascinating and tragic story. Thanks for putting together this video to keep it alive.

[@mrwishywashy238]

Another fantastic video about a topic I have never heard about!! Thank you for the amazing content as always

[@stuartf2946]

Morning Mr Raven. Very nicely put together, edited and a great voice over. This was an awful event that was clearly survivable. They must have been terrified. Thanks. Stuart

[@theravenseye9443]

Good morning to you too & thanks for the comment!

[@dafyddthomas7299]

Another excellent documentary - never heard of the disaster until now and what a catalogue of errors and missed opportunities to rescue the trapped sailors, wrong for Admiralty to consider that this sub was more important than the brave souls on board; if I was there I would get the welding crews to cut over the AFT section and attempt to rescue as many men as possible. RIP to the fallen

[@Torahboy1]

This tragedy inspired Tomas Dolby to write the song ‘One Of Our Submarines’ Thomas’ uncle on his mother’s side was one of the submariners that died in the incident. Give it a listen

[@alexanderdukeler3948]

Brilliant video. Superbly done.

[@tamar5261]

Tragic story, I remember my mother telling me about this when I joined the navy. Imagine serving in the reclaimed sub knowing all those poor guys died there

[@Dat-Mudkip]

The most screwed up part is that you _know_ someone actually sat down and physically crunched the numbers on how much it would cost to repair a sub with a hole in it versus a sub without any holes but a (nearly) full crew of deceased men...

[@bradmiley]

Excellent video as always, and a terrible tragedy caused by wartime haste and the cloak of secrecy. I know someone will probably already have mentioned this in the comments but if not, the HMS Thetis is the vessel referred to in Thomas Dolby's song "One of Our Submarines Is Missing". I think he lost an Uncle or Great Uncle is the disaster. It's something I found out very early on (I got the album and the 12" the track is on - it's now on the expanded CD when I was 11. I'm soo, sooo very old), and was deeply saddened. It's one thing when a composer makes a song or piece of music about a disaster, but seems sadder when a family member, albeit for him never known and never met, is directly involved. Anyway, haunting listening. Again, thank you for the video. Very well made.

[@TracyA123]

Interesting! I had no idea that song was about this tragedy

[@bradmiley]

@@TracyA123 It surprised me, back when I first heard it. TDs early work was very introspective and at times quite dark (Weightless, Airwaves, and especially Wreck of The Fairchild - about the Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 which ended in disaster and tragic loss of life). He seemed to get all this out of his system across the next few years. But The Golden Age of Wireless remains one of my fave albums to this day. So very old....

[@P_RO_]

@@bradmiley Agreed, some of the best music ever. As I understand it, Dolby said in later years that the uncle lost at sea on Thetis turned out to be a family tale, and not true. Still my favorite song on that album.

[@bradmiley]

@@P_RO_ That's some damn fine research, and has certainly educated me my friend! I must have been going off info I heard back when I was a kid - when the album came out - like I said (sadly) I'm old enough to remember this LP coming out in the UK. Luckily, I had a friend who said any weird music (he knew I was into off beat stuff) I should tell him about, as his Uncle had more or less the same taste and could get hold of virtually anything. He got me TGAoW, and also From A to B by New Musik. Bear in mind things like that awful "She Blinded Me With Science" hadn't got popular yet - and wouldn't for a while, so I guess I found TD from a TV interview or something. But again, thank you for that info. It's a very haunting track, and I love it to this day. I love the whole LP - the European version had "Wreck of the Fairchild" but I think the US, releasing on the back of SBMWS, omitted that track and added the above instead. Also I think they initially messed with the tracking because "Airwaves" is supposed to fade into "Radio Silence" and I read somewhere they messed that up. Probably new "Expanded Versions" have rectified this and put "Fairchild" back in there too. Along with the usual B sides, demos, outtakes etc. There was a huge blast of music that erupted as punk moved into New Wave. I was always a punk, but also goth and "futurist" as they called it back then. Imagine saying "futurist" now for an album 40 YEARS OLD! Ahh it was lively. Great music. It's sad that this video about a terrible disaster has brought a few music lovers of kindred spirits and tastes together! Still, a busy Comments section does something for a video's algorithms on YT. Lovely to meet you. Keep listening to the good stuff my friend. You ever want to chat, I'm up for it! Have a great day!

[@dianabranson3585]

I always respect folks who do sub assignments. My grandfather was navy in WWII for the American Allies. He had some jokes, I can't recall correctly about the difference between boats and ships. Something about boats already being underwater and ships having to sink only once? But yeah this is terrifying stuff. Thank you.

[@carlosdanger5877]

Thanks for your great channel I really enjoy every episode: gripping, sometimes forgotten stories recounted in a sober factual basis with great illustrative photos and historical details In the KZbin world of cartoonish hysterical documentary channels filled with stock images and melodramatic narration, your channel is so superior thanks for setting the bar high and please continue your great work!

[@theravenseye9443]

Thank you!

[@gordonm2821]

Totally agree, no over the top sensational narration but just fact based at just the right pace to take in what you just heard

[@johnjephcote7636]

Just as upsetting is that the disaster fund, which was substantial was later interpreted as for the benefit of officers and RN personnel. The dependents of those civilians lost were subjected to cruel and demeaning refusals. Lord Mersey's inquiry was a whitewash and the essence was that the ship could not be cut open to aid those trapped because the structure could not be cut to compromise future wartime use. This is possibly why an experienced salvage expert's offer was rejected (he had been salvaging the German High Seas Fleet).

[@ianstephenson9471]

My dad was there at the time in the rescue team. He was very annoyed because he felt enough had not been done. Richard Stephenson. Notice so many battles are lost because those in power are incompetant or care little for the solidiers or people. Lest we forget. May they all rest in peace. Thank you for your service. Kia kaha.

[@RedcoatsReturn]

What a complete mess! Bad quality control in the building…the painting of the torpedo tubes…was like a sabotage. Bad communication helped to bungle the rescue efforts, wasted time and no contingency plans either. The RN inquiry was an horrendous and a disgrace…no compensation for their families left behind…adds cruel injury on top. Those poor men drowned unnecessarily…I doubt they rest in peace 😔

[@Blaklege63]

Unbelievable!!!! All that stern of the sub just sitting there and NOBODY said “to hell with you, my cree can save those boys”. And just cut into the metal. At least a hole big enough to get AIR to them. I have WATCHES that can go deeper than this sub. Just so very sad.

[@harridan.]

excellent. thank you, have promptly subscribed

[@johnastbury4116]

My dad was from Birkenhead and used to tell me the tale of the sub being out of the water and the men inside being heard knocking on the side of the sub but not being able to get out.

[@suzyqualcast6269]

Yes, my Dad from Wallasey, affirmed this point to me years ago, which horrified me...

[@purplerunner1715]

This sad event would repeat itself with the Kursk years later. Not completely the same, but the theme of bad leadership is striking.

[@TracyA123]

I thought the same thing

[@sheilasembly-crum8447]

So heart breaking. Prayers to the relatives of those who perished.

[@BigLisaFan]

My grandfather had briefly been on submarines before being drafted to a cruiser. My father thought about carrying on in submarines but the loss of HMS Thetis (Notice no "the" in front of HMS) put him off. He had hoped to serve on HMS Hood but Bismarck ended that dream. Then it was HMS Ark Royal, well, we know how that turned out. He ended up in Sri Lanka on a shore based establishment but he said that's where the navy sent me. Poor Thetis, she seemed to have been dogged by bad luck from the beginning. Peace be to the men who served in her during peace time and war time.

[@suzyqualcast6269]

I'm 64 now, back when at Junior School (Iver County Primary) a pal of mines Dad served on Ark Royal, WW2. In the 6t's he was a pilot for the Dutch national airline, KLM.

[@plunder1956]

I was amazed. Which utter madman allowed FIFTY PASSENGERS (More people than the actual crew) on a sea trial for an already compromised brand new submarine. Even in sea trials for a surface passenger vessel are usually controlled and careful. The defects in the torpedo room are lethal enough without 50 sea muggles along for the ride.

[@suzyqualcast6269]

Wasnt Liverpools Alderman /Lord Mayor, one of the civvies aboard ¿?

[@plunder1956]

@@suzyqualcast6269 don't know. But the likely results were obvious.

[@amandam8609]

I keep hearing it as “HMS Fetus” and am morbidly imagining infants bobbing aimlessly around in the ocean

[@Alaryicjude]

The auto-generated subtitles hear the same thing and I got a couple of hilarious screenshots.

[@amandam8609]

@@Alaryicjude 😆

[@TracyA123]

I know it's horrible to laugh but that was funny😂

[@sheilaholmes8455]

I’m glad I’m not the only one!

[@TheRopeAddict]

It’s umbilically attached

[@timothykelly7974]

I had a look round HMS truncheon when she was at Portland for work up, as were we. The crew pointed out an oily line half way up the bulkhead and commented that however many times it was painted over, it kept reappearing. This stemmed from an incident in dock when a seacock was left open and the sub partially sank. I think it happened overnight when the crew were living ashore.

[@gabrielnilsson5398]

I'm glad i found this channel! Extremely high quality content and a perfect presentation with humour 👌 SUBBED

[@denishoulan1491]

My neighbour when I was a child, lost his father on the Thetis.

[@ALPINA527]

Absolutely brilliant content & story well told 👍

[@theravenseye9443]

Glad you think so!

[@Hard-Boiled-Bollock]

This is one of the reasons I don’t find it hard to believe that the Lusitania was allowed to be sunk

[@jeremywells9019]

The Captain knew he had a problem. He tried to dive anyway and the hours spent trying to force a broken craft to dive should have been spent returning to port. The entire incident could have been avoided.

[@grapeshot]

WOW that's military insensitivity for you. It's your fault because you failed to escape.

[@annnee6818]

Yeah. Just hold your breath, brave the crushing pressure of several cars and bloody SWIM right?!!😑😑😑 I have no idea how anyone would let them get away with that.

[@TracyA123]

Yeah..it's akin to saying "You people should've required less oxygen and clawed your way out"

[@oriontaylor]

@@annnee6818 No, use the Davis Submarine Escape Apparatus (a rebreather), in which all the submarine crew had been trained (albeit not the shipyard men) to get out sooner.

[@kaiserwilhelmshatner3156]

Did anyone give you permission to exhale?!?!

[@grapeshot]

@@kaiserwilhelmshatner3156 yeah they probably were also punished after the fact for not dying British enough.

[@OFCbigduke613]

Awesome video. Sad but very revealing.

[@yup_pea]

Awesome video 👍

[@Johnny53kgb-nsa]

Very well and respectfully done.

[@annehersey9895]

What unnecessary carnage! Those poor grieving families. And to think that had they cut into the stern, all could have been saved. Thanks for presenting this story as a remembrance to those who died needlessly and worse, had their deaths covered up to avoid blame.

[@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684]

No they couldn't, its an unfortunate misrepresentation of the situation by "Raven Eye". The idea that a gas cutting crew could open the back of the exposed submarine hull is an unfortuante non-starter. The 1.6cm thick steel that was seen projecting out of the waters of Moelfre Bay was the outer casing of the sub, which provided the sub with its streamlined shape to ease its passage through the sea, and which also acted as a protective cover for the various ballast & high pressure air tanks as well as spare torpedo storage tubes that were positioned outside of the sub's "pressure" hull. Cutting through that outer casing would NOT have allowed access to the crew, as they were within the sub's pressure hull, the cigar like tube inside of the outer casing which is where the crew and guests were trapped. The steel of a T-Class submarine's pressure hull was somewhere in the region of 3 inches (76.2mm) thick of high strength alloy steel and would have been impossible to cut with the gas cutting equipment onboard the rescue boats.

[@annehersey9895]

@@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684 WOW! Thanks so much for taking the time to present such a complete rebuttal with dimensions and inherent problems!

[@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684]

@@annehersey9895 Raven Eye's video is very good and informative. Unfortunately his misunderstanding of the details of the situation have caused him to make an incorrect and unnecessarily sensationalised conclusion, with regard to the admiralty's decision not to attempt to cut into the pressure hull. There is SO much more detail involved in the tragedy which would be outside of the scope of a 15 minute video. All the best.

[@grapeshot]

Talk about one claustrophobic way to die.

[@TracyA123]

I know right? Wow

[@Deebz270]

Aside from the blocked torpedo tube drain cock... The main cause of the disaster was the force of the inrushing water being too great to close the hatch. In the wake of the tragedy, the RN fitted a simple latch to every torpedo tube hatch in all submarines in the fleet and all that followed, this allowed the hatch to be opened only so far - in the event that the drain cock might be blocked - meaning, if the tube was indeed flooded, it could be shut more easily against the pressure beyond. Submariners call this latch - The 'Thetis Clip'.

[@ImmortalTreknique]

Great video 👍👊

[@madgary5827]

This offers a small tiny look into the real world around us. Very dark indeed. Like 🙂Thank you

[@soldierski1669]

I believe an attempt to open a panel of some sort was attempted but the worker doing so said that "Pressurized Air" started rushing out so he put the bolts back in. My big beef is that they simply drag the big SOB back to shallow water.

[@mirrorblue100]

Very well told - thank you.

[@MARKETMAN6789]

Thank you a very sad story, narrated excellently

[@stevenlangdon-griffiths293]

My Dad told me about the Thetis and how someone had painted over the pin hole many years ago.

[@DaveSCameron]

I worked at Lairds and now live over in Birkenhead and this is a well remembered tragedy. #respect

[@blumoontoons2313]

Excellent video, even if this accident is particularly infuriating due to the need to salvage the submarine. If I may, the 2001 Mesa Redonda fire will definitely be a good topic to cover, as I don't see it being talked about in almost any English-speaking channels.

[@theravenseye9443]

Thank you. I'll have a look into the Mesa Redonda fire.

[@themccarthys5854]

All honor and respect to the crew. Like Thetis herself was holding baby Achilles by the heel, dipped in the river Styx.

[@LancasterResponding]

Admiralty straight up did the whole “we have investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing” thing.

[@bullshitidentified]

My mother lost her brother, Bob Wilcox, on the Thetis ; she wrote in her memoirs of watching him walk to the bus-stop on the morning of the disaster, from the garden of their house in Carlew Road, and saying to her mother, if Bob goes down in the submarine I will never see him again ; she was so distraught that she didn't go to school that day. He was a young Mersey pilot who had recently moved the Ark Royal down the river, and the Admiralty had asked him to help with the Thetis ; so he could presumably have got off on the Grebe Cock as his job was finished by the time they were out to sea. My mother wrote, the three days of waiting turned my parents into old people.

[@barbaracraig891]

Thanks!

[@theravenseye9443]

Thank you Barbara, much appreciated.

[@lyedavide]

The USS Thresher incident highlights that things haven't changed much in the way military leaders think. That's the greater tragedy.

[@Eiuol81853]

This is the epitome of "a series of unfortunate events".

[@Kae6502]

13:36 - Damn. That's cold. >:(

[@alexhayden2303]

The initial mistake was that the tug escort failed to mark the location or broadcasting the position!

[@bennyd345]

I do enjoy getting notifications for new Raven's Eye content. Cheers, Raven... 🙏

[@RatPfink66]

i suppose telegraph boys were never to be told of the urgency of the messages they were given to deliver. If one of them was delayed for an hour by a blown bicycle tire at the risk of lives, at least secrecy was preserved.

[@QuorkEx]

I first heard about the story in the 1970s in a book called. "Submarines" published I think by piccolo books. Of all the stories in that book cover. This is the one I still with me over the years. I certainly appreciate the detailed information in this video, it's a fascinating and tragic story.

[@davemitchell9941]

Thank you for a sobering & succinct account of this tragedy. What we must not forget is this. Being the captain of anything is a very lonely job. Bless him he was under pressure no doubt to get the trials done given the circumstances (wartime ). Things would have been, rushed or overlooked. I have seen this happen when the Falklands kicked off. Things can & do go by the board!! Have worked in a dockyard myself, painters were classed as a titular trade (labourers) & back then would have been on peace work. The paint, lead based, was thick, so I’m not surprised it blocked up the test cock ports. The painter wouldn’t have known about them anyways, he was just doing what he was told! Remember also that there were a great number of extra folk on board, so the remaining air would have been swallowed up quickly. They would have been panicking too & so breathing harder. Getting them to lie still wouldn’t have been easy & the captain would have had a lot on his mind. Worked on subs & done sea trials. Testing & setting to work was arduous. It had to be!!I’ve got nothing but respect & admiration for submariners. Their training for these eventualities was second to none! Tragic though it was, the Thetis disaster did do some good. Lessons were learned. In this case sadly it seems the rescue was not controlled by a man on the spot with given authority & as my ol dad used to say; “ He who hesitates is lost, son.” So true!

[@craigfazekas3923]

Ugh. Inexcusable, disgusting non-action on the part of those RN officers in charge. Those are the same people who are supposed to have sailor's best interest at heart- this was not war time; closing watertight hatches & leaving men trapped in a desperate attempt to save a warship in wartime ? That is understood by all, upfront. This is nothing of the sort. Wtf ?.... Thank you for bring this to light for me & others, chief !! 🚬😎

[@brianmuhlingBUM]

Great story, thank you.😢

[@simonowen2744]

Desperately sad but superbly presented and explained.

[@theravenseye9443]

Thanks.

[@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684]

Though not without a small but important mistake.

[@martinwarner1178]

I read that a thin tool (probe) was at the torpedo door, for clearing the hole that indicated that the tubes were full or empty. And, one of the crew that escaped was responsible for checking, in the afore mentioned way. Anyone can verify? I read about this as a young man, many years ago, (before computers) Peace be unto you.

[@gvrpresentsbearwilliams]

Chilling and truly well done!!! God rest the souls of the lost.

[@RedNeckSurgeyTech]

That's crazy. We can't trust our leaders to do the right thing still today. It's always been that way and always will be. Sad!

[@johnwashburn7423]

I had prematurely guessed the decision to not cut the hull was based on the fear that air would have rushed out the the hole and the submarine would have flooded and sank! I wrote before and reiterate I like your occasional editorializing.

[@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684]

The part of the submarine sticking out of the water was merely the "outer casing". The inner "pressure hull" that the crew and guests were trapped within was of MUCH stronger construction that would not have been penetrated with the gas cutting equipment onboard the rescue boats. Also the pressure hull was a fair bit shorter that the overall visible length of the submarine and therefore would have been below the surrounding sea level, meaning that any attempt to cut into it would result in the immediate flooding of the rest of the sub.