Everything You Don’t Know About Elizabeth Holmes (Billionaire to Felon)

[@coffeeandcults]

**THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING** **Sources Pinned Below** If you made it to the end, you are the absolute best! I am already working on my next video, I am dedicating more time to this channel & hoping to release two long video's a month 🤞 Let me know if that would be something you'd like! Also 😺 CAT ALERT 😺 my adorable cat, Ms Gloria, is the most popular member of my main channel, but today she is making her Coffee & Cults debut. She's very invested in the Elizabeth Holmes story so she pops up multiple times throughout. Thank you again so much! **Sources** **Court Cases, Court Coverage & Mainstream Media** Bad Blood, John Carreyrou (2016), Book & AudioBook Bad Blood: The Final Chapter Podcast, John Carreyrou (2021) Hot Startup Theranos Has Struggled With Its Blood-Test Tech, WSJ John Carreyrou, Oct 2015: www.wsj.com/articles/theranos-has-struggled-with-blood-tests-1444881901 Liz Holmes Wants You to Forget About Elizabeth, The NY Times, May 2023: www.nytimes.com/2023/05/07/business/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-interview.html USA V. ELIZABETH HOLMES: files.cand.uscourts.gov/files/ USA V. SUNNY BALWANI: files.cand.uscourts.gov/files/18-CR-00258_USA_v_Balwani/ The Inventor: Out For Blood in Silicon Valley, HBO (2019) The Dropout Podcast, ABC & Rebecca Jarvis The Dropout, ELIZABETH HOLMES On Trial, ABC & Rebecca Jarvis (March 2021): kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXS2eHprlL6nbbs The Dropout, Hulu & Disney (2021): Available in the US on Hulu & Disney+ in Europe The Dropout Trailer (2021): kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWjVnY2CrJ6gZ5I The Rise & Fall of ELIZABETH HOLMES, CNN, Nov 2022: edition.cnn.com/2022/01/04/tech/elizabeth-holmes-rise-and-fall/index.html **Court Documents & Text Messages** E Holmes & S Balwani Texts: assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ruyvHd_1TIuk/v0 More E Holmes & S Balwani texts: files.cand.uscourts.gov/files/18-CR-00258_USA_v_Balwani/5387I-%20Text%20Messages.pdf Access to read the EH & SB texts (starts at page 10): assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ruyvHd_1TIuk/v0 More E Holmes & S Balwani texts: files.cand.uscourts.gov/files/18-CR-258%20USA%20v.%20Holmes/Trial%20Exh.%205387F/Trial%20Exh.%205387F%20Text%20Messages.pdf Majority of E Holmes & S Balwani texts & court docs: files.cand.uscourts.gov/files/ Pretty much every document from USA V. ELIZABETH HOLMES: files.cand.uscourts.gov/files/ Pretty much every document from USA V. SUNNY BALWANI: files.cand.uscourts.gov/files/18-CR-00258_USA_v_Balwani/ **KZbin Videos** All Eps of The Dropout & The Dropout - ELIZABETH HOLMES on Trial - The Dropout, KZbin Channel : www.youtube.com/@thedropout4183 ELIZABETH HOLMES Accidentally Uses REAL VOICE (March 2019), Vibes: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpvRpIywYt2Xhas ELIZABETH HOLMES Takes Sanjay Gupta Inside Theranos, CNN (2016): kzbin.info/www/bejne/jHm6qYmChZVmfNE Where Is ELIZABETH HOLMES Now?, Inside Edition, (April 2019): kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZ_XnnaafdWInbc ELIZABETH HOLMES: The Valley of Hype, Yahoo: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqCVeIafl8elrJI Ex-Theranos CEP ELIZABETH HOLMES Says ‘IDK’ 600+ Times to SEC, Nightline, Jan 2019: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWjVnY2CrJ6gZ5I The Rise & Fall of ELIZABETH HOLMES, ABC News (Jan 2019): kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2HJhoasedqnqrs Reporting on Theranos & ELIZABETH HOLMES, John Carreyrou, WSJ, May 2018: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZ_TdZJ7h7Clbrc Theranos Fraudster Cries During First Prison Visit, New York Post, June 2023: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e52aiX9jbaeln80 ELIZABETH HOLMES Founder Begins 11 Year Prison Sentence, NBC News, May 2023: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXTRiGRoq5J7gac ELIZABETH HOLMES in Final Bid to Avoid Prison, AP Archive, April 2023: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHPJaoeBeK5smrc Widow of Thereanos’ Former Chief Scientist Speaks Out, CBS, Jan 2022: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXLXqqCmpbuIoq8 😘❤😽

[@JNSP-kk7py]

Hi

[@mjowsey]

Thank you for covering the case so deeply. The narrative many people have is that Elizabeth started with the best intentions. Your insight into her avarice sounds truer. Just like Holmes' BS about losing her uncle when she wasn't even very close with him. Everyone has lost someone to cancer and for her to use her uncle's death in the tagline for the company was cynical. You deserve a vacation ❤️

[@KathBorup]

Fantastic video! You're doing great work. This is one of my favourite channels. Happy to hear you'll being doing more!

[@Liberperlo]

Love the Kitty!

[@jennycoyle8204]

Yet another case of the emperors new clothes! In my opinion these companies are funded hugely by people looking to launder money 🤔 I’d really love you to cover Better Up. As I think it’s the same as lots of the companies you cover so wisely as alleged frauds. I think better up is the next to fall 🦋🌻💗

[@catdaddydonbrewer007]

What pisses me off about this whole thing was, that in the end, it was decided that the individuals that were directly affected by these fraudulent tests didn’t deserve to receive any financial restitution but the billionaire investors were the ones truly hurt the most and deserved to be paid back.

[@fuzzjunky]

AP Jun 14. "Federal prosecutors want Elizabeth Holmes to pay $250 each month to victims of her failed blood testing startup after she leaves prison, but her attorneys are pushing back citing “limited financial resources” available to the disgraced founder of Theranos." she literally hasn't given a cent to the investors and the main investor is in prison with her, so i'm not sure where you are getting your facts

[@EffSharp]

@@fuzzjunkyI suspect that you’re referring to the criminal case restitution order, which is very very different than the civil cases. I’m fairly sure (but not certain) the the op is correct and that the money went to investors not the patient-victims.

[@fuzzjunky]

@@EffSharp A civil case can be ignored forever. a criminal case cannot. no-one goes to jail in a civil case. it means nothing

[@catdaddydonbrewer007]

@@fuzzjunky USA Today July 5 "While federal prosecutors have charged Holmes and former Theranos President Ramesh "Sunny" Balwani with wire fraud, FORMER PATIENTS ARE PURSUING CASES ON THEIR OWN IN FEDERAL AND STATE COURTS. Nine ex-Theranos customers are plaintiffs in a federal class-action lawsuit against Theranos and Walgreens in U.S. District Court in Phoenix." Those are the facts. That these individuals had to file their own civil lawsuits in the hopes that they could get some sort of compensation, where as the government took care of all that on behalf of the investors. Those are the facts and you can bet your ass the individuals, who had to pay money from their own pockets to have someone fighting on their behalf for the same compensation that investors won’t pay a dime in legal fees to get, will undoubtedly be prioritized at the bottom of the list when and if they ever due start cutting checks

[@chrismanspeaker9372]

First time huh?

[@mtaylor1498]

My uncle worked in the same circles as Theranos, he also headed a company that was a medical startup in California (which was successful and delivered on their promises) and he actually met Elizabeth Holmes. He told me she was very good at the hard sell and quite charming. It’s too bad she couldn’t put that talent to something positive. But he wasn’t fooled, he said most anyone who actually had real medical experience knew it was BS and couldn’t believe they kept it going for so long. I know this isn’t news to anyone but I thought it was interesting to hear it directly from someone who was there.

[@coffeeandcults]

Thanks for watching & sharing about your uncle! I’m always so interested to hear about people who interacted with Holmes. I’ve had some previous Theranos employees & family members of employees in my comments before & it’s fascinating. Thanks again for sharing & watching!

[@mtaylor1498]

@@coffeeandcults Elizabeth Holmes is fascinating to me, the way she could continue for so many years with this fraud, taking hundreds of millions of dollars from investors when it NEVER worked, how did she sleep at night? Not to mention having the balls to allow people to use her bogus invention and risk their health just because her ego couldn’t admit defeat. When I asked my uncle about it one day because I knew he worked in the field I was so amazed that he had met her! Thank you for giving us such detailed and in depth coverage, I just discovered your channel and am looking forward to going back and watching all of the videos in order.

[@jeng8401]

I would say it's a shame that the medical community didn't speak up more. But you find out anyone that tried. She had her lawyers attack and silence anyone that tried to blow the whistle on them.

[@pepper0604]

I have no medical experience whatsoever nor am I good in chemistry, just about average, but even I thought that was impossible what she was selling. It’s a bit of knowledge with common sense is all you need to see she was bs artist.

[@roseaduke8835]

*Hard sell & charm* ... _Perfect description of a sociopath._

[@sannasiivonen6147]

Regarding not having women in the board: I think early on Elizabeth noticed that she couldn’t ’charm’ women the same way she could older men. Not saying that she slept her way to success but it does seem she had a very particular strategy in gaining powerful friends that worked on older men.

[@brucejonsson3149]

It is interesting that these 'powerful' people have such poor judgement; Politicians, CEO's, Cabinet members, Presidents, wealthy people that dictate our lives.

[@Vitaminsiobhan]

I thought the same

[@CloudParadox-is1jc]

Without a doubt.. she used her sexuality to get everything she needed and they were happy to do it.. a couple still defend her now even with all of this out now.. it's sad

[@isabelledetaillefer2726]

As a very young child, Elizabeth was already coming up with crazy 'projects' like working on a time machine. The parents encouraged her, always asking how her invention was going and how they could help. So yes, she was raised to indulge in really grand delusions and to expect others to take it seriously. And she kept finding people who fed into the same crazy 'you can actually walk on water' storyline, like Sonny...and the other rich men she strung up around her. This saga is a gold mine for a study into collective insanity among the elite

[@JasonSmith-jr7jh]

You speak truth and wisdom.

[@tatkkyo9911]

....so she was playing pretend

[@SweetPea112]

Interesting! I see a lot of parents following this same path with their children, too.

[@justinburton2714]

I get that she grew up to be a fraud, but I don't think her being indulged by her parents in a bit of make-believe is really something you can consider a red flag.

[@moonlight_mylk]

​@@justinburton2714 I second this thought. I think it's a combination of not having any grounding, having big expectations, and having a lot of money.

[@valolafson6035]

I feel so confused that so many people were willing to take her at her word. Like she said, ''trust me bro'', and they said ''okay''.

[@Joeyw-2203]

Having a baby to try to avoid prison is possibly the worst thing she's done. Could you imagine being that kid, growing up with a single Dad cause Mom is in prison? Finding out that Mom didn't want you, she wanted to try to get out of a prison sentence?

[@tucker3601]

She’s the definition of a narcissist, probably even a straight up psychopath, doing everything with no thought or empathy for anyone else

[@justme9904]

It’s not even possible

[@Tyler-ll2ic]

welcome to the future.

[@scheikundeiscool4086]

She does not care a single second for annyone else.

[@PianoGesang]

Wow, that is so true, great observation, well done!

[@malfaro3l]

Your analysis about her taking the stand is spot on. I'm a civil trial attorney and there are so many times when a case has gone from a close call to a slam dunk based entirely on having someone like her on the other side. It is so hard for them to envision a world outside of their echo chamber that they can see how ridiculous their lies are and how easy it is to see through them.

[@coffeeandcults]

Thanks so much & thanks for watching! I bet you’ve seen it all in your job!

[@johnwayne2140]

I think she knew how ridiculous her lies were but she had to keep a straight face in order to impress investors with an uncompromising and superconfident attitude. But Belwani got the best deal, both a young attractive woman and a lot of money

[@clifffff7630]

​@@johnwayne2140alas, he did and always will look like shit in clothes.

[@mumbean23]

​@@coffeeandcultsn 1

[@electrictroy2010]

@@johnwayne2140 NO it’s always a bad idea to put yourself on the stand. It’s how the defense catches you in a lie. Better to exercise your right to Not testify.

[@jeng8401]

It amazes me how many lives she destroyed and yet she just goes on to marry a multi-millionaire heir to a fortune. And has a few kids. While she may be convicted and sentenced. She is just cooling her heels at a minimum security camp. That her family visits her regularly. Prison is just a hiccup in her life.

[@pete6705]

It’s annoying that as soon as Theranos collapsed she immediately found a rich heir to leach off. She had nothing left, she should have had to move back into her parent’s basement and find a new job somewhere. But, I do believe she’s screwed now. This is a very long prison sentence, she will be suffering, and personally I don’t think her rich boyfriend will wait that long for her. They’re not married, he won’t owe her anything. And he will have raised the kids on his own or possibly would get married to a new woman. The kids will probably stay with him, not go to her. So if that rich guy doesn’t wait 8-9 years for her, she’ll have nothing when she gets out, no money or home of her own, millions in debt, and maybe only get to visit her kids once or twice a month.

[@BeatlesFan1975]

Sounds like you want her to suffer. Ok

[@jeng8401]

@@BeatlesFan1975 Prison isn't supposed to be fun.

[@jimhen459]

she will be out in 5 years.

[@bartlettbigx]

Maybe so, but her reputation has been destroyed, her name is a synonym for fraud, lying and cheating, she'll never be taken seriously ever again, and anyone now who meets her for the first time will know exactly what a sociopath she has been. Whatever she thought she was striving for by constructing this tissue of lies - whether it's peer approval, family approval, getting back at those who bullied her, making an enormous amount of money - will never be achieved. The best thing for her to do on release would be to go home, be a good mother and never say or do anything in the public eye.

[@stitchedmouthgirl]

I remember the first time I hear of Elizabeth Holmes was when I was 9 years old in 2014. My Mum was talking bad about her to one of her friends, who like me had no idea who she was, and when I asked my mother what EH had done to make her so mad. She told me about Theranos and the machine, we got into an argument about it because although I knew very little, a device that can test someone with little blood sounds more than plausible to me. My Mum is a nurse, a low level one, and yet she knew EH was full of BS. Last year I heard of EH again when she was first found guilty, I sent the article to my Mum and told her she was right. My Mum had now forgotten about EH and had no idea what I was talking about.

[@lynettefinnigan9540]

As a nurse, trying to get a good sample from someone scared of needles and little kids...an invention that could do it on a fingerprick would be marvellous.... too bad they didn't put all the money into the invention, they might have invented it, who knows....its the trickery to keep the money coming in that is the bad part 😢😢

[@Khenfu_Cake]

​​​​@@lynettefinnigan9540 Very doubtful they could invent it. Blood testing is simply too complex for a tiny machine to be able to test for so many things from a tiny drop of blood. It's more likely we will have fusion power and solid state batteries (the latter probably much sooner than the former) before something like Theranos would ever become plausible in a manner where it won't have a ridiculous margin of error. Sorry to say 🙁 Frankly Holmes and Theranos would have been better off had they focused on maybe developing simple tests for certain infections, similar to the tests they have for HIV now, which you can indeed use only a small amount blood for. Sure, it wouldn't have been the mindblowing technological breakthrough Holmes desired for the sake of her hunger for fame. But she could probably have developed a successful business out of it. After all; even just making tests quicker and cheaper would be a major boon to healthcare.

[@JRandaII]

Did you learn your lesson?

[@maximumbees]

the way she kept trying to say "no one has to say goodbye too soon" like it wasn't rehearsed was so weird. just say it normally you don't have to pretend it's not rehearsed 😭😭

[@markcourson3151]

I have read 'Bad Blood' three times and watched dozens of documentaries on Theranos. This is an excellent synopsis of the entire story and props to this person on a job well done! Very complete and concise!

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you Mark, very kind of you to say!

[@markcourson3151]

@@coffeeandcults You are doing noble work exposing the Chaucerian frauds and Elmer Gantry'esque hucksters. I just watched your video on the Kardashians. Well done. The public needs to know the truth! Keep up the great work! FYI: I borrowed the Chaucer and Elmer Gantry references from my all time favorite author, the late. great, Christopher Hitchens!

[@lifeingeneral9111]

it should be it's just a compilation of everybody else's work

[@chadsimmons6347]

Your interest in the case could be caused by infatuation with the defendant

[@Blackheathenly]

She is pathetic. Deserves everything she got and more. Always manipulative until the end. Having 2 children deliberately because she thought she might get a lighter sentence or get out of going to prison at all. I am so sick of these lazy frauds.

[@dredgewalker]

That was also my conclusion when she got pregnant. She is a sociopath and I doubt she cares about the children. Hopefully the kids grow up in a better environment with a better step mom.

[@dcc7493]

When she really comes into those childrens' lives when they are around 10 it may be a complete shock to them. I know of other similar cases where a parent was absent for whatever reason, and the others around them would delude them with all these enchanting ideas of who the absent parent was. Pretty damaging to say the least. Those kids deserve better, including maybe never having her in their lives.

[@joeanthony7759]

She reminds me of Casey Anthony, another sociopathic narcissist who believes her own lies.

[@johngreystone]

She is beautiful. I would do anything she wanted

[@tomvu1470]

"Club Fed" though isn't it? Nothing like having to serve your sentence in a place similiar to Rikers Island.

[@alexacarrillo4339]

I just want to mention that anyone with a basic biology degree, had a family member with cancer, or had even just had a cancer scare know most cancers can’t be detected by blood tests. My husband had Hodgkin’s lymphoma and none of the blood tests had any of his numbers out of range.

[@lymarie1974]

I didnt know this. Thank you.for the information ❤

[@forsdykemontague1017]

Not strictly true, there are many blood markers that indicate potential cancers.

[@sitdowndogbreath]

That is because the labs are low quality

[@kimberlyoldschool]

In addition, anyone who’d ever been a phlebotomist knew her plan was insane. I remember having to do resticks if a new test was ordered on blood just a couple of hours old, or if we weren’t able to get enough out of someone with tiny veins. Technology advances but not THAT fast for medical devices.

[@BronzeDragon133]

@@kimberlyoldschool I mean, let's forgive Person on the Street like myself (who does documentation for a living) who wouldn't know that. Somebody has to tell me what is and isn't possible in the medical realm because, to me, an MRI is just magic pixies looking inside my body. Now if you told me that there's a new documentation system that could auto-classify my docs in seconds and had no delays....I could be the one to tell you that's BS.

[@BistrosHouse]

I can’t imagine being so irresponsible that I’d willingly get pregnant with not 1, but 2 children knowing damn well I’m guilty of the accusations brought against me. To bring kids in the world knowing you’re not going to be there for YEARS of their lives.

[@Lorna-bq4ke]

Those poor kids were born with a job to do: the first one to delay the trial and the second one to delay her prison sentence but that didn’t work

[@robertclark8991]

It makes perfect sense. Narcissistic control without responsibility. Pop back in as a savior with some money to throw around and then use the kids for supply and a scapegoat for illegal activities. Leverage mom and dad. Etc.etc.

[@jilltoby8]

To the creator, the talent and skill invested in this documentary podcast is evident. Thank you for your dedication to the very thorough project.. I found it very interesting and well done.

[@matthewshepherd7956]

Everything I have seen from this creator is top quality reporting and entertaining.

[@ideabankventures]

I was feeling incredulous when you said 20 years, but you are spot on, Theranos was founded in 2003. Hard to believe this has been going on for so long. Great video.

[@Pluto_Is_A_Planet_]

Yes, I had to also stop and think for a moment when she said this has been going on for 20 years because it just doesn’t seem like it’s been THAT long, but, indeed, it has been. It’s crazy that it’s been that long.

[@Sciosa]

God yeah, I did a doubletake lol, I remember when Theranos was in the news all the time for Changing The World

[@dcc7493]

I still feel like the 90s was 10 years ago.

[@coffeeandcults]

@@dcc7493same 😂

[@trentvlak]

@@Sciosa and if you doubted her awesomeness you got name called.

[@_WILDANDFREE_]

As a mezzo-soprano I can say that while for some women speaking in a bass voice would be a strain for others it is simply an exercise of their natural vocal range.

[@walkie1985]

I have no idea who you are, I don’t know what your usual content is, but… This video was so exceptionally well made, your narration is and insights are amazing and you have gained a single lonely sub for this. Brilliant video.

[@coffeeandcults]

Welcome to the channel! Thank you so much for your wonderful comment! You made my morning 💜

[@snarklar]

There's plenty more.

[@Celisar1]

I think you should have given Cheung and Shultz much more credit since they were the most important people in bringing Theranos down. Despite great personal risks they provided the journalist with all the information he needed for writing his article.

[@alfgwahigain5544]

And when Schultz went to his grandfather, his grandfather backed Holmes. Which is nuts Holmes had no expertise on anything.

[@cosmokramer7009]

​@@alfgwahigain5544She has a degree in manipulative sciences 😂

[@patrickjordan2233]

Tyler Shultz (and his parents) are unsung heroes, the pressure campaign to silence his concerns was incredibly intense.... Edit: imagine being the sort that idolizes Elizabeth Holmes... ???

[@user-ky8qq8ws1u]

You made it much clearer than any other source I have seen just how far she was willing to go to keep the scam going. She really took ‘fake it till you make it’ to the extreme. I didn’t realize how extreme before I saw this video.

[@coffeeandcults]

Thanks for watching!

[@LandYacht]

You put the useless corporate media to shame with this excellent doc. Thanks!

[@jckyhn7329]

Not completely useless. I'm no fan of Rupert M but it's to his credit that he let the Carreyrou story run in WSJ despite of his own investment in Theranos.

[@TheGFS]

hehe not very hard when this video is basicly a copy from 30 other videos made before this one about Holmes 😅

[@AW-uv3cb]

Possibly the most shocking piece of information here (for me) is that Murdoch refused to kill the Wall Street report even though he had a hight stake in Theranos - I'd expect him to do the opposite, so I give him grudging props for that haha

[@cyrix0078]

Yes, me too.

[@bsnhbksan]

He didn't do it out of the goodness of his heart, he did it because he knew it would come out eventually, and wanted to leverage his position from 'idiot who fell and pushed a scam' against 'benevolent mogul who broke a story against his own financial interest' - a financial interest that he knew was already fcked, so the decision was easy. Also, it wasn't his money that was lost, it was probably his investors money. People like him don't lose money.

[@leanne7570]

Found your channel a week ago when i was suffering with some really bad tinnitus and was looking for long form content where the presenter maintains an even speaking voice.... Seriously, THANK YOU! You saved me in that moment. Now I'm sticking around for your thorough and interesting reporting. Can't wait for more content from you!

[@gabriellebakker6489]

Your telling of the Elizabeth Holmes’ life of dangerous delusion is excellent and I not only listened to.all of it, but repeated parts. I am impressed by your attention to detail while also keeping the arc of the story moving logically and engagingly forward. It’s obvious this required a lot of research and drive. I especially liked your Jiminy Cricket stand- in for conscience. It immediately brings forth his talk with Pinocchio which leads to him becoming a real boy. That must mean Sunny is mostly, but Elizabeth is solid wood.

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much for your really lovely comment! I really appreciate it! Hope you enjoyed ☺️

[@Jess_MW87]

I recently watched a documentary on Max about two brothers who had pain clinics in Florida called American Pain. And spoiler alert , the brothers went to jail for some years and when one got out, he of course blamed everyone but himself. But he also started another business, not anything to do with the medical field, but to deal with real estate. So I wouldn't be surprised that when Elizabeth gets out, she starts a business. Maybe something with medical supplies or even real estate.

[@kbird6208]

I really hope she can be banned from the medical field!

[@chernobylcoleslaw6698]

Who the f*CK would employ her????

[@pepper0604]

Or teleport machine 🤷‍♀️🤭😁

[@damianstarks3338]

Can’t thank you enough for this new long in depth Elizabeth Holmes video.

[@coffeeandcults]

Thanks for watching Damian!

[@damianstarks3338]

@@coffeeandcults don’t mention it !

[@Jordys_Cursed_Camera]

When I first heard about this case I couldn't believe it. I really didn't understand how she got so far with such a ludicrous idea. As someone who's worked in the medical field for years it was obvious nothing like this could actually work. It still blows my mind what money can make people believe. The difference in guilty charges and sentences between Holmes and Bawani shows it matters who you know. She still got away with too much IMO. Federal prisons are a lot cushier than private prisons.

[@kbcederquist]

This was one of the best videos on the Theranos debacle, and I've seen a LOT of them. I'm in the diagnostic industry as well, and Theranos tried to hire me on to the scientific team in 2014. I said no because I had my suspicions. Your visual aids on the differences in blood volume between a traditional draw and the nanotainers were very impactful. Thanks as well for putting to bed rumors about BE and EH being married (of course they're not - his parents would disown him if they were) and about the parole limits for federal prison sentences. A great video touching on the major bases all around.

[@Tereselynn]

And she only get's 11 years sentencing for all of this?? Is really amazing!

[@michaelchevreaux7780]

Only 11 Years In Club Fed? Probably Will Get Out Sooner.😂

[@geraltofrivia3242]

She wont be able to work in anywhere notable as her name is career poison.

[@geraltofrivia3242]

She wont be able to work in anywhere notable as her name is career poison.

[@Pharmerlynda]

What’s insane is I’m just an average pharmacist and even I know using a patch that can inject antibiotics will never work… it lacks any understanding of pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of anti microbials, that doesn’t even take into account the size of the patch or issues with compounding the drug. Wow. I also heard that the medical director of this company was a dermatologist friend. Any descent medical device company designing a diagnostic would have a pathologist as the medical director.

[@ritagreen6499]

I absolutely agree!

[@Dave-ji1yp]

A LOT OF THESE LADIES LOKE HOLMES ARE JUST COCK CRAZY. BY...👍

[@EmiStar070]

I know absolutely nothing about all that but it's a HUGE red flag to me based solely on how they could get the antibiotic storage and the processing ability to so much as figure out your dosage in a flexible layer of plastic

[@koppsr]

In my opinion, cases like this should be done as publicly as the Depp/Heard trial. Hiding behind pictures, stills and papers shouldn't be an option for someone like her anymore. Public shame is a very powerful weapon and the current justice system makes not enough use of it. In fact it protects the culprits so much that they barely feel the impact of their own actions, let alone the consequences. Especially if they have enough money to cushion themselves. Great, in detail video, thx for all the hard work, you did an amazing job! 😎👍👍👍👍

[@jeng8401]

It wasn't an option for her she didn't get to choose not to have cameras. Cameras are not allowed in Federal Trials. And I wish they would change that. And we should have transparency. We should have seen that and Sonny's trials and convictions.

[@coffeeandcults]

Yes I definitely wish we got to see the Holmes case play out. Thank you so much for watching & the lovely feedback! ❤️

[@donedeal8385]

I agree except for the shame part. People like her have no concept of shame.

[@ReturnOfTheJ.D.]

Even if she delivered what she promised, and that was a significant improvement technologically/medically, and nothing was done illegal, humans in this society believe very, very strongly in morality, which is highly subjective and varies in every country you go to (if not cities). Enough negative publicity about something that was questionable morally would destroy her business totally, regardless of what she achieved. And yet that same moral sense is not shared by everyone - what should be important is the legality of an act, not the court of public opinion, which is different pretty much wherever you go (even within a country). There is no single morality, no single court of public opinion, even when an act is illegal - but once you start getting into judging legal acts by that framework, that's a moral dictatorship.

[@harryhanz1690]

She committed fraud, which is a very serious crime.

[@azimuth361]

Holmes has crazy eyes. She's obviously compelling and charismatic. If she had put 1/10th as much effort into doing something legitimate, then she would STILL be a billionaire and actually do something beneficial and altruistic.

[@pneumaticman5927]

That “I don’t know” time after time is reminiscent of SBF. Absolutely tremendous presentation. Thank you.

[@coffeeandcults]

Totally agree! Thank you so much for watching & the lovely comment ❤️

[@Chloe__________xx]

Sunny is actually a common Indian nickname. It’s like dick being a nickname for people called Richard. Or Jimmy being a nickname for people named James or Dimitri.

[@coffeeandcults]

Thanks for sharing, interesting. I wonder why he didn't really seem to go by it before, maybe it was something he only used outside of business and then with EH the business and personal was all meshed together. Thanks for watching!

[@Chloe__________xx]

@@coffeeandcults I agree he’s definitely dodgy it’s like the tequali twins sisters drama on KZbin they have several different names usually to hide things legally and publicly. And him being so wealthy seems maybe a legal loophole somewhere 🤔❤️

[@oliviabb73849]

Yes I was thinking of sharing this too, glad it was brought up ❤.

[@Handlebar-MustDash]

Sunny short for Sunil yes, but for Balwanis 1st name Ramesh? Many people from the Asian subcontinent will choose a western sounding name when living in the US, UK, etc.

[@MakerInMotion]

I think it's feasible that she could start a new company when she gets out. Adam Neumann ran WeWork into the ground and lost investors billions. He's managed to raise capital and start two new companies since then. You would think nobody would trust him with a red cent, but here we are.

[@coffeeandcults]

Yep I totally agree with you! I’ve covered Neumann & WeWork on this channel too so very familiar with the story. Can’t believe he raised capital & started more companies after what he did 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@jolo3118]

Is that the Fyre Festival guy? I guess I could just Google it but I don't want to have a bunch of ads for "investment opportunities" to pop up afterwards. Lol

[@MakerInMotion]

@@jolo3118 The Fyre Festival guy is Billy McFarland. His plan post-prison is to try to make Fyre Festival 2 happen.

[@jolo3118]

@@MakerInMotion Oh yeah, that's right! I knew that at one point. Lol. Thank you! 🙂

[@lynettefinnigan9540]

Exactly..there's been lots of dodgy people who have gone bankrupt and yet still own billions of dollars worth of stuff..look at Trump!!

[@annika_panicka]

Holmes has crazy eyes and sounds like a proper sociopath. And if that's not a legitimate term, she's a psychopath. Thank you for all the work you put into this video, from the research to the script to your flawless makeup down to the details you cite in the description. I barely knew anything about this deranged deceiver. (It's astonishing how oblivious I've been to what's going on in the world.)

[@rdallas81]

I dated her. Used to call her crazy eyes. She loved it.

[@Km10092]

That is not the definition of a psychopath.

[@annika_panicka]

@@Km10092 I didn't give a definition. I said she sounds like a sociopath, which isn't considered a valid term by some mental health professionals, in which case she [sounds like] she's a psychopath.

[@disf5178]

​@@rdallas81 You dropped it in her shoot?

[@SenjiaMurtic]

Freaky looking child grew into one evil b**** huh..

[@user-lh6ho9ov5w]

I read BAD BLOOD awhile ago...I could not wait until she was held accountable for all the bad things she did to so many people! What a nut!!!😊

[@discountjesus2859]

Phenomenal video. You have such a way with words, giving good detail and clarity while sounding very natural. Almost as if I was just having a chat with a friend! I know I’m late to this video, but truly your content is a gift. :)

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much for the lovely comment, very much appreciated ☺️

[@John_Joel_Glanton]

@@coffeeandcultsyou gotta work on the audio tho…

[@joemccormick1660]

I watched every second. The story is spellbinding, and your video did it justice. Beyond being an excellent podcaster, your insider knowledge of blood labs and the process of testing added a lot of firsthand credibility. Very well done.

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much Joe!

[@tpmash]

She’s amazing

[@brendakrammes7457]

Love this video so much! I work in a clinical laboratory and remember discussing Elizabeth and Theranos over the years. What a real piece of 💩! It’s so heartbreaking for the patients who’s health was negatively affected by her lies and coverups. She is truly a horrible person and it’s sad she is associated with a profession that is based on integrity and caring. Thank you again!

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you lovely Brenda!

[@robertknowles2699]

Seems initial good intention of tiny CC ( a drop of person’s type of blood ) could have been practical if more ounces, such as clinic uses to analyze health, and larger equipment , might have proved practical. Why wasn’t this Co. sued while other clinicians knew procedure needs improvement?

[@KB-nr3ls]

​@@robertknowles2699 this is just a guess, but it seemed as though Theranos could out-lawyer most clinicians and institutions, especially utilizing a multitude of tactics to draw a lawsuit out for years on end. Clinicians may have filed complaints with the appropriate insight agency, but those only go so far. You see how they drove one very credentialed and respected doctor to suicide, and where unrelentless in their treatment of whistle-blowers. Nasty company.

[@Brian.001]

"a profession that is based on integrity and caring." Ah, if only!!

[@monikaswain2096]

😅

[@malfaro3l]

I'd love to see a video about the recent research paper fabrications at Stanford. Considering how long it's been going on, who was involved, and how that research might have affected different industries, I think it'd be a great video. What's even better is the story about how the stories came to light.

[@PianoGesang]

The biggest scam the world has (n)ever seen is still going on...

[@covykiller]

First time on the channel with this video. The level of research, well-spokedness, editing and production value is amazing! I'll likely binge your videos for the coming short future, and hope you continue your work.

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much! Binging is the best thing you can do for a channel so thank you for that, greatly appreciated!

[@covykiller]

I didn't realize that, but hey all the more reason lol

[@CivilChristoph]

I am new here. Thanks for being pretty normal, fluent, and authentic, yet well-informed and reporting clearly

[@lkmac5949]

The voice clip sounded like her fake voice. Couldn’t tell the difference. But she is bizarre regardless. And devious. Amazing how she was able to scam these rich powerful celebrity influencers and politicians. That is what should be studied. These are high level decision makers put in charge of companies and governments. That is scary for all of us. The workers were the ones who started to see through it. Nice work.

[@coffeeandcults]

It’s a really short clip so not the greatest, I’m sure she’ll find some way to monetise the first time she ‘speaking out’ (vocally & not just via a NYTimes writer) when she gets out of prison. Thanks so much for watching!

[@lkmac5949]

@@coffeeandcultssuch a great point. She will try and make money off of it at some point.

[@jh4336]

Congratulations. You're a great story teller and I've probably watched everything you've done in Theranos. Hopefully there are more cases you can explore in the future. Oh and MVP.

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you SO much for watching all the Theranos coverage! I really appreciate it! ❤️

[@johnavellar7331]

This is very well done and interesting. I had come to believe that she probably even lied about her ability to speak Mandarin, but you have shown here that she did in fact have a solid command of the language. So many people lie about having the ability to speak a foreign language, so it is interesting that she was actually telling the truth about this often-lied about skill.

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much John! I did wonder about that myself back when the original pieces started coming out & reporting that, but according to multiple sources she spoke Mandarin at the interview to get in to the Stanford program & a few other mentions over the years of people hearing her speak it. You are wise to question her though as her moments of truth telling are few and far between! Thanks so much for watching & your lovely comment ☺️

[@maggieadams8600]

"Even stopped clock gets the time right twice a day."

[@dcc7493]

Like Frank Abagnale, who really did pass the bar in Louisiana. Even large shadows have their material source.

[@johnavellar7331]

This is a very good example here! @@dcc7493

[@katywain8642]

Very well made video. Feel like I've just watched a Netflix doc. Looking forward to watching more of your content.

[@KatieMahony]

MVP Made it all the way through; took breaks & returned. This was great. I love your low-key humor. lol

[@HannahandCailinLoesch]

THANK YOU for this! Have seen so many Holmes videos/docs and of course The Dropout, and you still shared information we hadn’t heard yet.

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much for watching!

[@mattcaldwell1521]

MVP quick comment - your channel is a perfect cross between true crime and pop culture, can't get enough. Please keep it up, this channel finally getting into the algorithm, it made mine yesterday. Ty Ash.

[@coffeeandcults]

What a lovely, lovely comment Matt! Thank you SO much, you made my day! ❤️

[@jennycoyle8204]

Just finished the video and shared it with so many. I believe billy wants to annoy his parents but I give him 3 years tops before divorce. Yes she’s in jail rightfully so, I believe she used her pregnancies for the courts to take pity, she will write a book upon release and do workshops like the wolf of Wall Street. I still believe her father was a silent perpetrator. You’re so talented beautiful girl. Keep up your amazing work 🦋

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much for the shares Jenny! That helps so much! Greatly appreciated! Thank you!

[@stutzbearcat5624]

She has an extreme psychosis. And she's never going to change. I started following her about 12 years ago when I saw her give a "Ted" kind of talk and realized immediately she was a bullshiter con artist. (Being in the music business I've developed mile high bullshit detectors.) Her sentence - which has recently been reduced by 2years already - should be twice as long. Even so when she gets out she'll be well into her 40s and I'll be shocked if that guy Billy, who is younger and not a bad looking dude, hangs around - he's going to realize he's been had too. There is also some bizarre tangential connection to these 'national security state' figures throughout this story. I'd sure love to further investigate that.

[@jennycoyle8204]

@@stutzbearcat5624 yes! I remember seeing her be interviewed over the years too and to me personally I knew she was lying badly, even the lies made no sense. Absolute word salad, and knowing all those men on the board were in charge of the defence of America believed her too is nuts 🥜

[@stutzbearcat5624]

@@jennycoyle8204 Americans love, and I mean LOVE, a con artist. They LOVE TO BE CONNED. There is no other explanation. I need not even site examples - they are SLAPPING US IN THE FACE every day. 😁

[@1Netbum]

​@@stutzbearcat5624looks like you love them...😂

[@tanyakauffman311]

I’m still floored at the number of people who fell for the con. I was a vet tech for 9 years. Different test require different preps for the blood. There’s no way that one drop of blood could perform all the different test.

[@Gadulaksinjan]

You did a fantastic job with the story! I followed most of it throught the news, but it's very interesting to hear it with a more distant perspective. I enjoyed every minute of it!

[@jennycoyle8204]

Just stuck this on my big telly! Was looking forward to watching all morning. I’m sure it’s gonna be fantastic! Thank you so much for all your hard work going into watching 😘🦋

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much Jenny (my sister & my aunts name)! I feel honoured to be big telly worthy! Thanks for watching & all your support, makes me happy to hear you were looking forward to the vid! ❤️

[@bugsy742]

I call it watching on the big telly as well mate 😂👍🤝

[@jennycoyle8204]

@@bugsy742 🙌🙌🙌yaaaaaaaaaay! Canny beat the big telly 🙌😘🦋

[@jennycoyle8204]

@@coffeeandcults you’re so very worthy of my big telly with your fantastic work most beautiful girl 😘🦋🌻

[@bugsy742]

@@jennycoyle8204 😃✊✊✊

[@dingdongs5208]

In Indian families people are given nicknames that for some reason are not similar to their real names. For example my Mum's name is Ashwini but my grandmum and grandaunty call her 'bulbul' so its just a cultural thing and im assuming Ramesh's home nickname was 'Sunny'

[@yasministryhealing]

Sunny is probably short for Sundeep, it’s a very popular nickname in Indian culture. Sundeep could be a middle name or part of his sir name, which could’ve been shortened to Balwhani and Indian sir names are usually three times as long

[@mnschoen]

His surname? I've never heard of a thing called a "sir name."

[@yasministryhealing]

@@mnschoen I didn’t realise it was spelled “surname”.

[@Tommykey07]

Yours is the first video I have watched on this subject that describes her family background and childhood. Well done.

[@canadiancoyote410]

In some pics she shows a childlike innocence, and in others her face is super dark and almost scary. She's quite the chameleon.

[@millissentflemmings2216]

We’re *Holmes* free!! 😂😂😂 I feel a bit guilty for laughing at your spot-on pun because so many people’s lives were completely upended by Elizabeth Holmes and Sonny’s deception. Excellent research and presentation. I really enjoyed your analysis of these awful characters!!

[@josi4251]

Great video! No idea how the hell Holmes believed she could keep up the smokescreen. It's just unreal that anyone thought this scheme would continue to fool investors and the rest of us. As someone who's had many blood tests over the years, her whole shtick just seemed suspect to me.

[@torbjorn-olsen]

Thank you for such a fantastic, thorough, and enjoyable series. So excited for what you have in store to share with us!

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much Bernadette! I have a lot of videos planned & my next one is already in the works so hopefully not too long between uploads ☺️

[@keithbentley6081]

Excited about. Learn English!

[@BlaBlaBlaTheEnd.]

I stayed right to the very end. Thankyou for this study of the world we live in. People need to hear and understand the importance of this truth.

[@bruceyung70]

Anyone who gets pregnant to buy time and or sympathy in a criminal court knowing you’re heading for a very long time is revealing how she thinks.

[@Danny-mg1hu]

Yup, she would avoid it prison time if she admitted guilt??

[@Danny-mg1hu]

Yup, she would avoid it prison time if she admitted guilt??

[@Danny-mg1hu]

Yup, she would avoid it prison time if she admitted guilt??

[@Danny-mg1hu]

Yup, she would avoid it prison time if she admitted guilt??

[@RydiaMerchan]

I've watched numerous documentaries and KZbin coverage of this story, but none was as truly as informative as yours. Particularly with the explanation about the machine it's self and why it didn't work! Thank you for this!

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much!

[@flowerchild89]

What a sociopath! She scares me especially with her crazy eyes.

[@jameslasso1690]

i worked for biotech company that manufactured blood analyzers and when the Forbes Cover came out - I brought the copy into office. I and my co-workers read the article and thought it could be legit in limited scope. But when she said something like 200 tests, our B.S. detectors maxed out.

[@GONEmypurpleflapjack]

"I'm not going to diagnoses anyone in a KZbin video" *precedes to diagnose someone*

[@jacksonmiller5090]

I used to get blood drawn every month as a kid. I never knew the color tops were for different tests. Learn something new everyday

[@ericbenjamin8452]

This was incredibly well done. I have followed this story forever, yet, you provided information I have never heard before. Thank you for putting this together. Again, awesome job. You have a new fan and follower MVP!

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much Eric! What a lovely comment!

[@patty8874]

she didn't look too grief-stricken about not seeing the kids

[@stutzbearcat5624]

Cuz they were/are props.

[@ihatespam2]

She had them knowing she might not be there, narcissism…

[@Tom55data]

Thank you for your presentation. I am frustrated that the medical aspects (possible loss of life, pain and misadventure) was never won in court, life is more important than money. At least she is in prison and no longer hurting people - so utterly cruel. I am a bio mathematician and Theranos was such a BS scam that did terrible things. NVP

[@lorenaruiz8147]

Awesome video! Just found you. You are thorough and effective in explaining how the fake lab testing worked. Had not understood it until watching you. Thank you! Please make more videos 🤗

[@coffeeandcults]

So glad you found us! Thank you so much for watching, appreciate your kind words 💜

[@AnnieAnnieBuckwheatCakes]

I work in a hospital as a cleaning person & also have some medical training from my days as a Hospital Corpsman in the Navy. Our lab is large & it has a variety of large, complex machines along with a trained staff to draw the blood & run the tests. Anyone with a minimal amount of medical training & experience would know that Holms' idea was balderdash. I'm surprised it was allowed to go on for as long as it did.

[@lpete2766]

I couldn't follow this whole story at the time it was happening . so thank you for all the work you put into it . this was a great video . She should have gotten 30 years .

[@coffeeandcults]

Thanks so much for watching!

[@Myrddin1955]

You are right, 30 years would have been more fitting for the crimes this dreadful woman committed! Blow the investors too, they should have done their due diligence before parting with their money! Suspect they will receive US tax relief for their dire stupidity! Absolutely galling!

[@MrMalvolio29]

Thank you for this excellent explanation of the horrific, almost unbelievable Theranos fraud case. I have always wondered two things about the case: 1) Before a medical device is put into widespread use, doesn’t it *have* to first be reviewed and independently tested by a government agency such as the Food and Drug Administration, or some other component of the US Dept of Health? 2) Shouldn’t Theranos have had the so-called “Edison device” examined and accredited by the American Medical Association?

[@Dana9437]

excellent point!

[@saldarwish]

You should win an award for the way you reported the events , thank you for hard work , keep it up

[@coffeeandcults]

You are too kind! Thank you so much for the lovely comment & for watching!

[@dixonpinfold2582]

Opening image: Elizabeth Holmes shows off a tiny container holding all the integrity she ever had.

[@GrandmaDawn118]

This was perfect for me! You just made my Wednesday! I found you AND I learned everything about that nut case…I’ve been curious but haven’t come across any kind of documentary on her yet so THANK YOU! And now I binge your channel! ❤

[@douglasmatthew4884]

Is it possible that Holmes originally believed that her company could "fake it until you make it", and end up producing amazing things?

[@crustyrash]

Great summary, and I learned a few things. What I find the most egregious is how she defrauded individuals with bad lab values and to her, it was just the cost of doing business.

[@supervidere7]

Watched the whole thing in 3 stages over one afternoon/evening, Can't pick a fault in it well done.

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much! Really appreciate your comment ❤️

[@mbur1gess]

Great television - I was invested in every second. Thanks so much for sharing your passion and your perspective!

[@straww_berryyy]

television...?

[@scofab]

The depth and thoroughness of your research is amazing. Thank you and have a Happy New Year.

[@koffee3336]

usually prison visits slow after the 1st year and after 5 it is rare for most inmates to get visited. it's a huge mental toll. also Billy is not married, young and super marketable, women will be breaking their necks to replace her. i bet after 3 years it'll just be calls especially when you factor at some point he must realize how silly it is to be going to prison so his kids can see their mom.

[@coffeeandcults]

I heard prison visits decreased but didn’t know the exact stats, thanks for sharing. Yeah I find it very hard to believe he’s going to just wait by himself with two very young children for a decade. He does have a lot of money so the kids will be raised by nannies etc I’m sure… I think he got with her because of her ‘fame’ or rather ‘infamy’. I’ve heard a lot of interviews with people who knew him in school, college, his first job etc and no one was surprised he was with her. He seems to revel in the attention. But as you said, & I def agree, there will be scores of women dying to replace her. Thanks again for watching & the support!

[@koffee3336]

@@coffeeandcults Matthew Cox gives 2nd hand account through his associates on how she is doing in prison. not good at all. you can pull up the transcript and search her name. the comment is near 22 mins. it's a youtube video.

[@beth8935]

Wow! I love this video Ash! I noticed Miss G made a few appearances and I like your Stanford t-shirt. You would think at this point Elizabeth would be accountable for what she did. She’s obviously still delusional. I’ve watched every Theranos video you’ve done. I appreciate all your many hours of hard work on this story. I hate this is the end of the story but who knows what might transpire while she’s in jail. Well done Ash! 👏 MVP

[@coffeeandcults]

Thanks so much as always Beth! Ms G & I appreciate ALL your support on both channels! Ms G stole the show as usual 😂 Thanks for everything 😘❤️

[@Mimi90353]

Thank you so much for all your effort, research, and time put into this video. I get so excited finding longer videos on YT, and this one is excellent! ❤

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you! That’s so kind of you to say ❤️

[@girrlove12321]

I remember being a little kid and waiting in the dentist office and seeing magazines with her on the front cover with the blood container. I hated needles and thought it was so cool that I lived in the future, and that I wouldn't have to get pricked with needles soon. I really looked up to her and it makes me so sad that as an adult, my childhood hero was a fraud the whole time.

[@missknight9]

Amazing video. This has to be one of the best Elizabeth Holmes videos I’ve seen to date. Well done!

[@maryjwatt]

I followed Holmes since she was exposed by Carrirew. Have watched the shows and the commentaries. You add a lot to what I knew previously. Well worth watching!

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much Mary!

[@jennycoyle8204]

I allegedly think that her father had more to do with things behind the things than known. He was after all the 2nd in command in Enron 🦋

[@stutzbearcat5624]

The ENRON malefactors we're every bit as bad - or worse - than Elizabeth. And - there's all these people involved in the national security state floating around the edges of this as in ENRON. I'd love to pick off the rest of this scab.

[@pete6705]

Great work. I’m finally starting to accept that there won’t be more EH news for a while, but it was fun to watch a new video about the full story

[@coffeeandcults]

Thank you so much for watching & your support!

[@Digitally_Faith]

Thank you for sharing new perspectives on this story. Other podcasts are like “She was bad” but they didn’t share all of the backstory that made Theranos the large scam of a fraud that it was.

[@xKarenWalkerx]

Terrific video and investigative journalism 🎉🎉

[@dlvox5222]

She is a manipulative liar. Unreal how light her sentence is.

[@03817]

It may sound harsh, but I truly believe that she got pregnant (twice!!), in hopes it would help her get acquitted or get a light sentence, which proves more how egotistical she is. She did not take into account that her children may grow up without a mother, or rather with the burden of their mother being in prison. So selfish, it's difficult to grasp.

[@barbarapearson1653]

From what I have read many things about her are calculated. The deep voice, the time she dropped out of college (similar to Steve Jobs), the black turtlenecks. I would agree with you that the pregnancies were planned to avoid or mitigate her time behind bars.

[@AW-uv3cb]

I don't disagree with you about Holmes, but I'd caution against the way you reason. You begin with "I BELIEVE", then you use the thing that you just guess to lead to the conclusion "which PROVES". So something that was just your personal opinion at the beginning of the sentence became a tangible fact by the end of it. It's a dangerous way to argument. Again, this is not to disagree with you about this particular case, but we must remain aware of our own assumptions. Based on Holmes' previous behaviour, I think it's a valid guess, but until we have a concrete proof, it remains just that: a guess. And since she's been actually proven to be fake and egotistical in so many other ways, there's no need to prop up our argument with guesswork as if it was a fact.

[@MrTnbopp123]

Im not so sure its the "sales gene" thats so important to have to pull something like this off, its the "im the queen of the world and i can manipulate anyone" -gene that is the main trait you need i think

[@lesterweinheimer665]

I'm amazed she was able to go that far with her little plan . Thank you so much!

[@vaughanlockett658]

Becoming pregnant knowing your going to be sentenced for a long time twice in an attempt to get a lighter sentence.

[@Persefone94]

Vile.

[@Celisar1]

Don’t think so. She was in her thirties. If she ever wanted to have children she had to do it before going to prison.

[@johnjohnson3709]

@@Celisar1I honestly think she doesn’t even like children! They would just get in the way.

[@valolafson6035]

​@@Celisar1 But she can't really parent those kids from jail.