Everything you need to know about Kick Drums (including Kick2 & Punchbox)

Ever wondered how to make better kick drums, or where to even start in describing them? What approaches can you use to make them, how can you generate them?
We answer these questions here, and also have a quick look at why some dedicate VST plugins like Kick2 and Punchbox can really simplify your bass drum workflow.
Links mentioned in the video:
- Loop Loft drum samples: www.thelooploft.com/collectio...
- Kick2: www.sonicacademy.com/products...
- Punchbox: d16.pl/punchbox
Find Oscar's video courses here: courses.underdog.brussels 🖤🖤🖤
Join the Underdog Discord channel: / discord 👾👾👾
Sign up to the mailing list here: tinyurl.com/yy92sx5u 💌💌💌
Pledge to the Patreon: ​ / underdogmusicschool 🌱🌱🌱
Contents:
0:00 Introduction
1:38 Acoustic kick drums
4:11 Sampling breaks
6:22 Drum machines (808 + 909)
8:31 The 808 and 909 in Ableton Live
10:25 Using the 808 as a bassline
11:50 Saturating the 909 for rough techno
12:40 Theory: different parts of a kick drum
15:35 Kick2 VST
20:48 Punchbox VST
25:42 Summary & conclusion

[@temps_triste]

You are honestly one of the best ableton teachers, love the way you explain stuff and the themes you choose!! Cheers from switzerland!

[@OscarUnderdog]

Cheers right back!

[@xCORRUPTAx]

Gotta say, really is the best teaching series out there that I've found. You're a true teacher

[@moonstalker1483]

Alte hesch so rächt ech schwör

[@suvambanerjee2137]

Concur.

[@breadman7733]

Easily the best drum explanation ever. Love it. Thank you!

[@karmatosed7211]

solid content yet again, i was a band nerd thru school so most theory stuff is a little trivial, but i appreciate the mindfulness towards those of us that had no opportunity to be a band nerd or were too cool for that crap. it's easy to leave them behind, while also annoying to some ppl to drag them along. i think it speaks on the motivations the direction one choses in this area, not too surprised for this channel's direction in that respect and you'll get a kudos from me on it.

[@yagmurpak5244]

at some point I will make a song for you and name it "thank you Oscar for all those KZbin tutorials"

[@OscarUnderdog]

😂❤️

[@Lintlikr1]

fantastic teacher. Going to watch all these vids now as I begin my production journey

[@rijadhrustanbegovic9039]

you really find a way to get me hooked Oscar, you know the way of explaining a lot to us, I am sure you do, thanks a lot bro

[@GabrielCalarco]

I can't tank you enough for all this videos! Great stuff!!

[@tessaverlinden5836]

This is fantastic! Super informative thank you so much! Keep up the great content! 👏👏

[@ValiumHeretic]

And again a very useful tutorial! The basics of a kick clearly explained Nice to see you're using Kick2. Could you maybe make a tutorial on how to make melodic techno kicks with Kick2?🙏🏻

[@a-novoxackaj653]

Very useful video for beginners who just starts producing and trying to understand how this all thing work :)

[@harry2house536]

Punchbox ---- my must when layering my kicks

[@cryptout]

Yet another gem! Your videos keep inspiring me.

[@user-bx1ji1kr9z]

Like to TB-303, the 808 and 909 were designed to practice with, so in a way they were meant to replace drummers/bassists but only for practice, not for live or studio sessions.

[@erickuentz1388]

Thank you for explaining the 808 bass line. I always knew about the TR-808 drum machine, but I never knew why those low bass sounds were referred to as "808s."

[@splorgbaby]

This channel is fantastic, your tutorials are concise and super intuitive. You're gonna be at 1 mil in no time.

[@OscarUnderdog]

🧡💎 hope you're right!

[@ylvikvz8362]

thank you ! very interesting and useful! please, keep going!!

[@umanoid1523]

Nice history of the kick. I used to build kicks from several sample layers but have become pretty lazy about it. I take a sample thats kind of what I want (Usually a dark subtle kick) and then shape it with distortion, Eq, filters and compression. I also use multiple kicks in a track depending on what my kicks are doing like fills and turn arounds. I picked up Kick 2 a few months ago on sale but have barely done anything with it. I need to start using it more. Thanks for the awesome explanation and analysis on kicks!

[@stevie-jones-music]

Great content and advise as always 🔊 thank you!

[@toshiyer]

Didn't know you can export the sample from punchbox so easily. Thanks man, keep up the good work!

[@OscarUnderdog]

Yeah! And from Kick2 as well, it's pretty straightforward, they are both very well designed plugins.

[@haavardpaulsen544]

Excellent tutorial.Inspiring and Learning . Best from Norway

[@sofam84]

I am learning. This is so useful. I wish I had stumbled on your tutorials when I first started using Ableton... I have had to unlearn a bunch of real, actual, honest to god garbage since then.

[@spastischelastisch8482]

4:54 Down the rabbit hole... Just recently discovered your channel Oscar, I've been binging ever since :D Great way to pass the time while eagerly waiting to hit those beautiful Belgian dancefloors again ;)

[@johndjameson]

This is amazing. Thanks so much for the explanation! I’d love to see a follow up on snares and hats.

[@OscarUnderdog]

Oh yeah! I can definitely do that :D consider it added to the list...

[@trevormalcolm4328]

Your videos are like going back to school (boo!) but for lessons you really like (yeah!) 👍🏽🙏🏽🇬🇧

[@redpeople2192]

Best Kick 2 description i have heard.

[@shotaro_music7625]

Very Helpful Lesson🙌, Thank you very much!🙏🙏🙏

[@izzylazy2902]

thanks, enjoy it very much!

[@ivanshmilyk7614]

You are the best, thank you for your videos!

[@QUANTUMMUSIC101]

AMAZING VIDEO! Thank you!

[@lx1972]

useful tutorial! thx i will book a course by you in the next time

[@keithpringle1103]

Nice one, learned something new in Kick 2 😀

[@FFabianoFonseca]

amazing oscar! thanks

[@alvarocorrea3882]

You're great teacher, good explanantions specially for newbies, gfy!

[@huguesandrepierrard4254]

excelent as usual !

[@wonkothesane2288]

Loving these tutorials - very interesting. I only use Modular synths and no software but there is still loads of relevant info for me! Keep up the good work!

[@citizenworld8094]

Oscar/Oskar, not sure but one thing is sure, you are perhaps the best teacher I came across on KZbin and my word, I spent a long time studying! Thank you

[@OscarUnderdog]

Man wow, what a compliment:) thank you!!!!

[@citizenworld8094]

@@OscarUnderdog The best are always the most sincere. You don't realise it because you're head is in music and training, nowhere else. I hope life is kind to you man. You deserve good luck.

[@isabellapakulska]

Man, every video you put out, is pure quality. There is a lot of tutorials out there but gotta say yours resonate with me most. Thank you very much for all the good work and best regards from Manchester!!

[@technocoh]

very interesting & informative! ;)

[@michaelgrauvogl689]

i like this systematic comparison. thanks.

[@TheSamcummins]

another great vid Oscar

[@OscarUnderdog]

Thanks Sam, its probably my first one 😅

[@VideoJunkXXL]

Exactly what I've been looking for for a long time. I still have to laboriously search for a suitable kick on every new track and edit it again. Maybe you can show how to build a nice techno rumble effect rack in Ableton Live :-)

[@Dennio83]

senpai informative, is the phrase what ive come up with. Most of them are padawan informative; spoiling out their complicated theories in order to wham the rest of them. Finally there are forces that come to play that teach us no, start by one and if you do i can teach you to infinity. Im new here, just bought a launchkey25 and this is the best source out on the internets right now i tell you

[@jaydekaytv]

Great vid

[@KosmoDeuz]

Cool man thanks 🎉

[@ivanvelez7668]

Great video.

[@lionheartglass]

I enjoy your videos so much. Endless Thanks.:)!

[@OscarUnderdog]

Thanks so much for the support!

[@ELLIOT8209]

@@OscarUnderdog I'm also on a binge. Enjoying from South Africa. We love house music here.

[@MaxPatissier]

merci, super instructif

[@acidbath3226]

im using kickbox and some of the other kick drum and production plugins from soundspot, they are like some of my new favorite plugins (that are even backwards compatible with my old daw!)

[@danil1887]

Thanks a lot for all this great tutorials, I don't use ableton a lot but I really like to watch them. I'd like to know your opinion about hardware sound nowdays (as digitakt, roland and etc), do you get more unique and hi-quality sound then in ableton, or its just more creative workflow and kind of fetiche?

[@ravirana2001]

I wish you teach other edm genres too i can't feel techno i don't know why!!! . You are a great teacher 🙏 i spend hours and hours for making hardstyle rawstyle hardcore kicks . And bigroom too . I use kick 2 but puchbox is good too.

[@arjanpetersen]

Most people evolve from “melodic techhouse” and edm to techno. Just takes some time. Just like good wine. Edm is most of the same but more simple production.

[@therealdahl1888]

Hi, Thanks for great content. Do you maybe have a morde detailed video about Kick2 VST? Thanks.

[@kmilamv]

Great channel

[@ClayF403]

Love that you brought the Punchbox into this, it's such a beast of a vst. Totally my go to.

[@Badj4s]

Loved Punchbox, but when you get used to Kick2, there's no looking back.

[@partialobject]

​@@Badj4s To me, it depends on the kinds of Kicks I want to make. Punchbox is more suited to big ass Techno-kicks, where everything else is constructed around the Kickdrum, whereas I find Kick 2 more useful for Psytrance, where a lot of precision work is needed to fit the Kick to the Bassline.

[@Badj4s]

@@partialobject whaaaaat noooo! Kick2 is also very suitable for techno :D

[@partialobject]

@@Badj4s What I like about Punchbox for Techno-kicks is that it has the classic sounds right at your fingertips. Kick 2 has always felt a bit too tidy and clean to me. Got any tricks to share? :D

[@Badj4s]

@@partialobject distortion and using a nice top sample go a long way :)

[@santiagoabad2272]

Great info! What are you’re thoughts about tuning the kick drum?

[@cuba1234100]

thank you

[@anton.pyshnograev]

Man you’re the best.

[@OscarUnderdog]

takes one to know one ;)

[@greeksdorok]

Kick 2, once you realize how a mix is properly buildt, will provide you with whatever fkick foundation you need for your track. Took me about a year of experimenting with it but totally worth it for anyone thinking about it.

[@OscarUnderdog]

Find Oscar's video courses here: courses.underdog.brussels 🖤🖤🖤 Join the Underdog Discord channel: discord.gg/z5N9CTA 👾👾👾 Sign up to the mailing list here: tinyurl.com/yy92sx5u 💌💌💌 Pledge to the Patreon: ​ www.patreon.com/underdogmusicschool 🌱🌱🌱

[@OrlandoDCaros]

Done, your prices are great. 😅

[@craigseganti8999]

Thank you

[@deniskesiov3594]

thanks man its amazin eplenation

[@TxmmyBeats]

How can we make the synthetic kicks sound more acoustic?

[@oAshishRaina]

Notes: kick (bass) drum types: acoustic vs synthetic, creating kick with samples, slicing out of other loops, generating samples (main wave for sub ~55hz, mid ~120 Hx + 3 optional samples for flavour, hi ~1000 Hz) #wip

[@abregulisandro]

Cuando muestras los samples suena el click del teclado, estaría bueno corregir eso. Por otro lado excelente canal. Sigue asi

[@onurdx]

Very, very useful tutorial, thanks a lot you are the best man you helped me a lot :) I have one tiny question, i notice that you do this a lot. How do you use an audio clip , like the 808, and write midi notes with it? When I drag an audio to the channel rack, it won't let me draw midi notes. I can only place audio clips on the grid. Are you using sampler or simpler to do this? I would appreciate it a lot if you could help me out, i have been looking for this all over and can't find an answer for a long time :) Thank you very much!

[@OscarUnderdog]

If you drag an audio sample into an empty midi track, it creates a Simpler device with that sound in it! Then you can trigger it with C3 in the piano roll :)

[@UFO-303]

After trying many VSTi versions of the kick, I ended up choosing the Korg Volca Kick. When I worked with him at a friend’s studio. The most powerful fat sound I've ever heard. I am making a demo of this wonderful tool on my channel with the implementation of its capabilities for those who are hesitant about purchasing.

[@UFO-303]

It can also be used as an analog synthesizer.

[@StraiyEU]

Would u recommend Punchbox or Kick2 for Techno Kicks.. Im not sure which one i should buy...

[@ulfb5467]

Great tutorial 👍 What about the tuning, there are different opinions on in what key and so on? 🙏

[@OscarUnderdog]

Hi Ulf! Yes indeed, tuning is a subject I didn't go into here. I'd say it pays off to be aware that tuning can be helpful, but not to overthink it either. Sometimes nudging the kick up or down a few semitones can help it "gel" better with the key of your track, especially if the kick is very tonal and/or saturated so the overtones make it very prominent (on the other hand, some kicks don't have a long sustain, are based around noisy rumble, or their pitch descends, so it's hard to consider it very pitched). Having a pitched kick also contributes to a very "clean" production aesthetic, which may or may not match the vibe you are going for. Amongst world class artists there are those who do and don't pitch their kicks, so take from that what you will. Finally, no matter how high or low you pitch it, you may want to ensure it's low enough to have subby weight, but not so low that it's inaudible on small speakers. Maybe I should make a 3rd video about kicks :D

[@mikedegrazia]

@@OscarUnderdog plz do! These are invaluable lessons

[@-zoave-]

Do you know the plugin Boz Sasquatch Kick Machine 2 ?

[@modernrider1398]

I was just thinking of using zebra 2 synth to create my kicks. At the end of the day aren't the drum players of the day just using samples from synths? Seems like a waste of money to buy a vst to make a kick when you already have a synth along with everything kick 2 and punch box has and you can use your own Bitcrusher or filter etc. Just my two cents. I'm hooked on your videos man. I'm going to put in 16 hours a day to figuring this out until i'm making good music I enjoy.

[@johndemeter3009]

man you are like the god of producing , i feel so sad, i bought fl studio cuse i know how it works but every time i see your videos i wanna go ableton :c great videos man!! 1 SUB MORE

[@IRONIXX]

I guess concept can be translated to any other daw

[@johndemeter3009]

@@IRONIXX yep i mean thats what i do but, ableton looks more idk easy? crisp? beautifull? haha idk but its more enjoyable

[@IRONIXX]

@@johndemeter3009 I love how everything is pretty much straight forward even though after around 15 years of making music in Ableton now and then I’m pretty bored and in meantime I have tried Studio One (which is really neat and I still love to play around in this daw) and Logic but always came back to Ableton. Great software! I have tried FL demo but I wasn’t comfortable with that software even though I have seen some dope projects made on it :)

[@hypnopriest4632]

Dude that's crazy, I had no idea DNB came out of Funk!

[@uitham]

and a shitton of other genres also came out of the amen break! i think boom bap hiphop too

[@thomasdietz579]

If you were to choose what would you get ? Kick 2 or Punchbox

[@mustafathamer9893]

Thanks a lot for the explanation, one question please “ is 909 also work with Trance or Psytrance” ?

[@jocee2257]

yes it certainly can. You can also get a good psy kick with a saw wave on serum using the same principles he used in the video on kick2 vst

[@djdeluxe76]

What are the advantages of using something like Kick2 over Ableton's Operator? I haven't tried it yet, but I would imagine playing around with Operator also gets you far with similar principles.

[@OscarUnderdog]

Kick2 uses synthesis for the fundamental frequency, but then also allows you to stack samples on top, processes things together... I think it might be a long frustrating road to go with just Operator, even if in principle you can make kicks with Operator too.

[@djdeluxe76]

@@OscarUnderdog ahh ok.... So it's more the convenience of having everything in one neat package readily accessible for tweaking at a glance rather than building your own from one or more Ableton elements which you have to wire up to macros and so on. Thanks for the fast reply! Keep it up :)

[@Gnurklesquimp]

If Ableton does layers similar to how FL does it, I think it should still be quite easy and fluid to do it that way, I sometimes don't even route them together on my mixer. It's always great to have packages that are extra fluid, though, any amount of work gets in the way of your creative flow, yet settling for temporary sounds can negatively affect how you write from there, so actually getting stuff just about done quickly is great. It can also make a HUGE difference with more complex things, especially if it's not a post-effect or if your mixer is already a MESS to navigate etc., an example we pretty much all run into is heavily layered and automated synths, it's great to have a single instance of a generative plugin like your standard synth with many oscilators etc. and some nice routing options built in. The only shame is certain things just need to happen on the mixer, I don't think I've seen generative plugins that let you run any external post-fx internally, say you want your oscillator, some cool unique comb-filter you found that normally sits in your mixer, and then the rest of the synth from there... Instead we get standalone modules like a particular synth's filter that we can then run on our mixer, kinda making our own modular synths that way like a lot of DnB and Hardstyle artists etc. do, but the reverse would be so cool too. Most of all because on-trigger/key-follow/velocity conditions etc. are very important for a fluid process when working with rhythmic plucks and all that stuff, you don't wanna go back and fix your automation/lfo-tool after changing a rhythmic pattern, even just doing it once is a waste of time in many cases.

[@jw8350]

time

[@toss74]

isn't rockwool toxic if not properly isolated?

[@fofopopo313]

I love you

[@DaniloVunjak]

Would you recommend any native Ableton plug-ins for synthesizing kicks?

[@ricardojmestre]

Operator!

[@davidpurple3698]

Great Video - thanks - you should shift keyboard to a silent one :-)

[@OscarUnderdog]

Hahaha but I like my little clicky mechanical keyboard 😂

[@user-tv7jx9pw1q]

Can you make a video, how to master the 909 kick? I don't mean the mastering, just to be secure and king about this kick.. I bought a tr8s and decided to just use 909, but I don't really get satisfied with it. I am looking for the darker or classic 909 sound, with nice harmonics out of analog pedals and so on.. But I am not sure about the amount of hight frequencies, length and the loss of low punch out of fuzz and distortion and so on... Really hard process :( Edit: okay I saw you showing the punch box, maybe I will try to emulate this with the tr8s and pedals

[@blueanorack1684]

Hey Acid, I dont know if its allowed lol but I have had the same Questions to pimp and modulate my kickdrums. I can recomment you SINEE channel. There you find a really deep dive tutorial how to place and compress your kick drums with different compressors or effects.

[@OscarUnderdog]

One tip I might give: everything is relative in a track, and what you want to achieve is a "tonal balance that's appropriate to your overall track". Set your track's RMS to the same level of a reference track's (kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpeTeIhsbsuJhKc) and then make decisions based on brightness/punch etc without worrying too much about loudness/compression. That's a good starting point I think. Also: don't imagine you need to create everything from a 909 per se. Permit youself to download sample packs & just use kick samples that suit your style. No need to be purist if being purist blocks your creative flow :)

[@slawomirbialecki2275]

how to check the tune of the kick in Punchbox?

[@OscarUnderdog]

When you touch the "tune" button on the kick generator (the middle module), you can see the pitch written in the bottom left corner! An alternative is to put a Spectrum Analyser just after the VST, and look at the fundamental frequency!

[@milztempelrowski9281]

Did you just do an intro on youtube and jumped right into it, without saying 'without further ado'? First time I've not seen that in years I think! I feel bad watching this for free. Had no problems pirating Deadmauses Masterclass (it's okay).

[@sergevelikan9466]

Oh, I noticed, I’ve got same headphones 🙂

[@micowata]

Forgot filter pinging!

[@cosmicloops3471]

Whoever dislike this video was once caught faking acoustic with samples 😂😂

[@alvarocorrea3882]

Kind advice, you should mute your mike when playing a sound, the "click" of your computer keyboard mixes with the sound you're trying to make your audience hear.

[@Yemoloof]

Punchbox

[@hereisapictureofabroom]

Never thought I'd be interested in making techno... But here I am.

[@timmdiaz]

the lip smacking is killing me, but i got through it.

[@marceloribeirosimoes8959]

Please, I am not trying to start a war here, but I know the real 909 kick drum sound and for me, this Punchbox did not sound a lot like that. Maybe it can be even better, but I think that sounds a little off...

[@zaniferox]

ma quanto cazzo di pubblicità vuoi farmi vedere?

[@nihilatak]

Dude it would be wonderfull if you volume down your own voice. That way we can listen the sound you show in high volume and not kill our ears by your voice

[@OscarUnderdog]

Haha point taken. Back then I didn't know the first thing about videomaking, and it was all screenrecorded with no option of adjusting levels in post 😁 Sorry for your ears!

[@gelatinous6915]

Yo you got some video in between those ads wtf