Everything You Thought You Knew About Protein Is Wrong | Stanford's Professor Christopher Gardner

Proteins, carbs, and fats … most people understand what the last two are. Carbs are sugars, and fat is, well, fat. It's protein that’s so important to our diets, but so often misunderstood - by the general public, that is.
Since the 1950s and 1960s, scientists have been measuring how protein affects our performance, how it supports and maintains the body’s structure, and how best to incorporate it into our diets.
From big steaks to protein shakes, tofu to seitan, protein is more available now than ever before. With so many options, surely we’re getting enough protein?
In today’s episode, Jonathan speaks with a leading nutritional researcher to find out.
Christopher Gardner is a professor at Stanford University and a member of ZOE’s scientific advisory board. He’s pioneering the movement to redefine how we understand the quality of our protein intake.
If you want to uncover the right foods for your body, head to joinzoe.com/podcast and get 10% off your personalized nutrition program.
Episode transcripts are available here: joinzoe.com/learn/category/po...
Follow Chris: / gardnerphd
Studies mentioned in this episode.
Maximizing the intersection of human health and the health of the environment with regard to the amount and type of protein produced and consumed in the United States: academic.oup.com/nutritionrev...
Diet for a Small Planet by Frances Moore Lappé: www.amazon.com/Diet-Small-Pla...
Perspective: The Public Health Case for Modernizing the Definition of Protein Quality: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31066...
Follow ZOE on Instagram: / zoe
This podcast was produced by Fascinate Productions.
00:00 - Introduction
01:20 - Quickfire questions
03:13 - What is protein?
07:29 - Can our bodies make the proteins we need?
08:00 - The mechanism for our bodies creating amino acids.
09:00 - What is an essential amino acid?
10:35 - Crazy study Stanford scientists did to find the Estimated Average Requirement of protein.
15:28 - How much protein should we consume?
18:29 - How much protein do we already consume?
23:39 - Can our bodies store protein?
24:41 - What happens to excess protein in our bodies?
25:39 - Protein Scam Alert!
26:16 - Stanford Study: Does the type of protein we consume affect physical performance?
29:21 - Protein requirements for kids and pregnant women.
32:21 - What is Amino Acid Distribution?
34:27 - Are plants missing certain amino acids?
35:12 - How is AAD like the game of Scrabble?
39:35 - What is the healthiest source of protein?
39:46 - Dr. Gardner’s case for changing the way we define “protein quality” in the US
42:52 - Jonathan’s summary
45:25 - Goodbye’s
46:13 - Outro

[@stevelanghorn1407]

I’m sure it’s more very well-intended dietary information. The trouble is the masses are bombarded with such totally opposing advice and information from equally eloquent, articulate, convincing, apparently highly intelligent individuals. It’s so utterly confusing.

[@trotskyite1]

Just see who's selling a book and a line of supplements and disregard

[@stevelanghorn1407]

@@trotskyite1 Good advice! Thanks

[@joinZOE]

Hi Steve and thanks for your comment. The world of nutrition can be tricky to navigate, particularly when scientists have different opinions on the same topic! We always reference the evidence discussed in our show notes, so that you can trace everything back to its source. Hope this is helpful, let me know if you think there's anything else we can do to help 🙏

[@stevelanghorn1407]

@@joinZOE Many thanks for taking time to reply. I’ve always trusted the advice here on your channel. My comment was because of the broader issue. To take my one tiny example…STATINS…Good or Bad? HIGH CHOLESTEROL…OK…or not? SATURATED FATS…Good or Bad? ANIMAL versus VEGETARIAN / VEGAN for heart health? The list goes on…and so many opposing KZbin “big brains” seem convinced they know and have “The Panacea”…and are (sometimes) blatantly cashing-in on the vulnerabilities of many & on our confused search for guidance.

[@La_sagne]

check if they have a degree that actually relates to what theyre talking about... be very sceptical when they have no degree or when theyre chiropractors talking about nutrition

[@inlandwatchreviews5745]

I am 65 years old, 157 days ago I started eating meat. I lost 50 pounds in 100 days. Carbs gave me heartburn for years, in two weeks it went away. My friend had lost about the same weight eating a vegan diet, great for him. People are different, do what works for you. We can all agree that the average American diet is terrible.

[@1966jbc]

If you look this guy up he thinks that Drs also should consider "1) global warming and climate change, 2) animal rights and welfare, and 3) human labor abuses (e.g., slaughterhouses)" when making recommendations. This clouds things. When I see things like this, I am suspicious that he is influenced by more than science to form his ideas. Also, I' took off 120 lb upping my meat consumption and going low carb. Took me quite a while, but I've kept it off for close to five years.

[@johnh3611]

From a health perspective, too much protein isn't what's killing people in America. You could specifically say that excess saturated fat from red meat isn't healthy, but all the carbs, sugar, diabetes, that's the worse problem. From a diet perspective, more protein keeps you full and helps you eat less of the unhealthy sugary snacks. Great for weight loss, or even just maintenance. So "eat less protein" is not a good takeaway here. Even if what he's saying is true and you can build and maintain muscle with much less protein. Which I doubt. This feels more like a vegan confirming his own bias.

[@jessedeane6036]

Dead animals to eat sustained death. The very word vegetarian is a Greek word it means holy full of life. As living foods promote and sustain life. The human body has long intestines like herbivore animals. And need fiber in their diet to push the food out.

[@fasteddylove-muffin6415]

@inlandwatchreviews5745 -- Best possible dietary advice EVER. Do what works for you. Thanks.

[@edgbarra]

Probably anything that keeps you away from highly processed foods would be an improvement for most americans

[@rachaelrb]

What a stress reliever! I just lost a kidney and I have been worried about fitness and kidney health. Thank you, thank you!

[@psychalogy]

That Master’s student study he referenced had six people per test condition and ran for four weeks. It’s not surprising at all that the results didn’t reach statistical significance. It sounds like one of the most underpowered studies ever devised.

[@superkev500]

He pointed out it was a preliminary study , that's how it works in academic research.

[@psychalogy]

@@superkev500 a study that underpowered fails even as a preliminary study. Seems more like an exercise for the student to go through, not actual research that was supposed to reveal anything.

[@sophiekarnak3936]

You misunderstood the study: EVERY subject did a vegan diet for 4 weeks, an omnivorous diet for 4 weeks, and a plant-based meat substitute diet for 4 weeks, so each athlete served as his or her own control over the 12-week course of the study. And they found that although the subjects ate significantly less protein while they were on the vegan diet, there was no change in their performance despite the lower protein intake.

[@kingofwesteros9868]

@@sophiekarnak3936 "there was no change in their performance despite the lower protein intake" - that doesn't mean it was at least good, let alone outstanding. Their performance could be just decent.

[@griffinbur1118]

@@psychalogyRight. Sample sizes that small mean that noise almost inevitably overpowers signal. The possibility for problems in achieving truly random selection or controlling for covariates in the absence…overwhelming. It’s not preliminary, it’s just worthless.

[@ritasicari7518]

He said it all comes down to calories, yet other "experts" on this podcast have said calories are meaningless. No wonder people have eating disorders.

[@VladimirKirichenko-yd6og]

Lol exactly.

[@VladimirKirichenko-yd6og]

It also highly depends on what you’re doing. If getting jacked then ofc need tone of protein lmao. No mention here

[@mroqido9987]

@@VladimirKirichenko-yd6og no mention here? Did you have your device muted, my friend?

[@Sam-bn7jk]

this guy is a clown, not aware even of the concept of "randomized clinical trial". Just the fact that he totally ignores the hormones role and thinks about calories only like an early 20th century scientist says it all.

[@paulgoogol2652]

There's a lot debate on calories as how much energy a body can extract from them is individual depending on their microbiome and the body in general. Genetics, fitness, activity etc. A person doing physical work or workout will benefit far more from carbohydrates than office workers. Diet is a very complex issue with a lot of incertainty involved so I would trust less a person who is overly confident in what he says contradicting lots of peers.

[@lam7750]

After all the wonderful talks and explanations given by your guest speaker and by zillion other scientists and nutritionists out there, I decided to just NOT STRESS about these matters. Just eat healthy and a variety of foods to the extent possible and within my means, and forget the rest.

[@oliverleslie7382]

ifbacongrewontrees.wordpress.com/2023/09/14/how-do-you-get-your-proteins/

[@dperl5640]

Just came across this channel for this topic. I have to say this host has an incredible ability to take something the professor says and makes it so easy to understand. His analogies are brilliant! I mean him taking the topic of aminos and how they break down and are utilized and says "basically it is like eating Shakespear and a comic book and by the time the body uses it it is simply letters so it has no idea where those letters came from". Amazing ability. I will definitely be checking this channel out more often

[@anonymousl5150]

Both men in the video are very uneducated. They claim animal protein is bad because of saturated fats, which is just 50 year old outdated information. Worse they recommend bean for protein intake when beans are some of the most dangerous lectin infested garbage to hinder your nutritional gaions.

[@samiryan214]

I think the host is an autistic that's why he's excel in what he's doing lol

[@oliverleslie7382]

Professor Gardner is a nice guy, a smart guy - but once again, the sad reality is that what he knows, how he learned, was trained etc. is outdated data. Science is not static but it seems that with nutrition science - it very much is static. What we know today, 2023, November 28th at the time of this comment, is that we can't use dietary, supplementary, exogenous proteins and amino acids. @resurgem Which means, the statement "if we don't get proteins or AAs, we die" is incorrect. We humans, just like all the other 9 million species on earth, are genetically predisposed to make all the nutrients we need. Yes, the body can convert atmospheric Nitrogen, N2, into the user friendly N3 - so the nitrogen Balance standard for testing is moot null and void - another bit of old science understandings that were more assumptions than actual fact. Labs are now showing humans can in fact synthesize the so called essential amino acids like Leucine, Lysine, Threonine etc. Vegans are not lacking any nutrient in their diets. Those who fast for 20, 30, 40, 50 day water fasts are also not lacking any amino acids, or proteins etc. - and are not dying. The idea that we break down dietary proteins into the amino acids and then the body re employs them to make X - is false, it was stuff of yesteryear, an era where we had no way to really show this, no way to really prove this - and the number one reason for why we could not prove this, 50 years ago, or in the 1940s, the time the 'essential' narrative was born, was because we simply did not have the technology. And guess what, today, 2023, we Still don't have the tech to show exogenous proteins get cleaved, broke down to AAs and then those AAs go somewhere and get rebuilt into new proteins. In a lab, petri dish dynamics, we have some ideas about proteins and amino acids, but not at all in living cells that exist en vivo in real time, in living organisms. Even tagging and tracking proteins and AAs is poor science lacking in true tech to observe what happens when food is digested. The idea of dietary proteins is not how the body works. Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly. Oliver

[@samiryan214]

@@oliverleslie7382 You're fabulous, I need to read more about: "Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly."

[@oliverleslie7382]

ifbacongrewontrees.wordpress.com/2023/09/14/how-do-you-get-your-proteins/

[@mazd8617]

Charismatic Professor ! Love to watch and listen to him. Thank you.

[@lucillasallabank]

There are plenty of peer-reviewed studies that prove that the RDA for protein are just a minimum requirements, not ideal amounts. Older people, very active people, people on a calorie deficit, people who want to build muscle, all benefit from higher protein amounts than 0.8g per kilo of bodyweight. I am 60k and I aim for 100g of protein per day.

[@MikeKayK]

Yes, he admitted that and said that a huge percentage eat way more than 0.8 anyway.

[@Arternis]

@@MikeKayK I live in Austria and I have to say that people who do not eat meat on a daily basis rarely get to 1g of Protein per kg of bodyweight. People tend to overestimate the protein intake, you learn that if you start tracking yourself ;).

[@MikeKayK]

@@Arternis Yep, people are horrible at estimating anything, including calorie & nutrient intake. But research has shown that even vegetarians *usually* hit at least 0.8g/Kg (that's only 55-70g protein/day). How long have you been tracking? Even on days I've been sick and unable to eat anything but carbs, I've hit at least 100g protein haha. I'm a Registered Dietitian and have logged every meal since I started bodybuilding back in 2009 :)

[@Arternis]

@@MikeKayK I have been tracking for about 4-5 years now and actually stayed with protein tracking because it was the most impactful for me personally. Aiming for the 1.5g to 2g of protein per kg. I avoided carbs for a while but found it very useful for me when doing intensive workouts. Been trying every diet in the last 10 years :D. Wrote a masters thesis about intermittent fasting and caloric restriction. That was the time when I was very interested in tracking because you mainly eat less with intermittent fasting and therefor loose weight and it's an easy approach but calories are still king. Which carbs sources do you use to get the 100g of protein?

[@MikeKayK]

@@Arternis Vegetarians still eat eggs and dairy, so no issues there, while vegans should be eating tofu, legumes (soybeans, kidney beans, chickpeas, lentils, etc), nuts, and higher protein grains such as quinoa. The vegetarian and vegan population loves their processed "fake animal" food, too, which usually has plenty of soy protein concentrate/isolate or textured vegetable protein (TVP) added. Funny how they're anti animal food but still want to "pretend" they're eating it.

[@atleyflenner]

My personal experience does not align with this guy's talk. Just working out without adding extra protien for a few months did not build muscle. I had to add extra to see results. Diet is crazy important at least in my experience.

[@benthornhill7903]

There's a big difference between bulking up and healthy functioning and maintenance. Even so, if you're taking protein powders and going overboard on the protein, you'll be pissing a lot of it out.

[@Drewsarchus]

the science of what he’s saying is backed up by peer-reviewed meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. the number one factor in growing muscle while on a resistance/hypertrophy muscle building focused routine is sleep quality and quantity followed by overall calorie surplus. if you hit above the RDA of protein and make sure you are consuming enough calories over maintenance while active, and get enough quality sleep, you will build muscle. you won’t need upwards of 150-200 grams of protein a day for that to happen. anecdotal, but there’s enough examples of vegan bodybuilders to prove this is true. i’d say hit the RDA of protein a day from the sources that make you happy and that you can stick to, consume a decent balance of healthy carbs and fats additionally to hit your daily requirement of calories and focus on good sleep. the average healthy person can do 3, 30 minute minute resistance routines a week if everything else above is on point and gain substantial muscle

[@soonahero]

⁠@@Drewsarchusthis is completely antithetical to every bodybuilders experience, every bodybuilder’s coach experience, and all sports training nutrition science. With your conceptualization, people will plateau in about a few months. This guy was talking about putting on 10 kilos of muscle in a year. A world class natural bodybuilders puts on 15 kilos of muscle in their entire career.

[@tiblends5423]

@@soonahero yes thank you!! gaining that much muscle just doing the same old thing, that is the most idiot thing, i am in no way a body builder but i have worked out for a year almost just to gain like 3 kilos and i was underweight, and no one knows how much of the 3 kilos is actually muscle, this guy is just saying things to make people feel happy

[@SanatoZen]

​@@soonaherothe head of nephrology department where I used to study would tell me how common most his unit would have renal failure cases that were athletes in their 40s that never knew how to consume proteins. So yeah, better listen to my gym coach than the nutrition expert.

[@gordondawson8576]

I loved this podcast, a big big thank you to all involved in its creation. Eat well live well.

[@oliverleslie7382]

Professor Gardner is a nice guy, a smart guy - but once again, the sad reality is that what he knows, how he learned, was trained etc. is outdated data. Science is not static but it seems that with nutrition science - it very much is static. What we know today, 2023, November 28th at the time of this comment, is that we can't use dietary, supplementary, exogenous proteins and amino acids. @resurgem Which means, the statement "if we don't get proteins or AAs, we die" is incorrect. We humans, just like all the other 9 million species on earth, are genetically predisposed to make all the nutrients we need. Yes, the body can convert atmospheric Nitrogen, N2, into the user friendly N3 - so the nitrogen Balance standard for testing is moot null and void - another bit of old science understandings that were more assumptions than actual fact. Labs are now showing humans can in fact synthesize the so called essential amino acids like Leucine, Lysine, Threonine etc. Vegans are not lacking any nutrient in their diets. Those who fast for 20, 30, 40, 50 day water fasts are also not lacking any amino acids, or proteins etc. - and are not dying. The idea that we break down dietary proteins into the amino acids and then the body re employs them to make X - is false, it was stuff of yesteryear, an era where we had no way to really show this, no way to really prove this - and the number one reason for why we could not prove this, 50 years ago, or in the 1940s, the time the 'essential' narrative was born, was because we simply did not have the technology. And guess what, today, 2023, we Still don't have the tech to show exogenous proteins get cleaved, broke down to AAs and then those AAs go somewhere and get rebuilt into new proteins. In a lab, petri dish dynamics, we have some ideas about proteins and amino acids, but not at all in living cells that exist en vivo in real time, in living organisms. Even tagging and tracking proteins and AAs is poor science lacking in true tech to observe what happens when food is digested. The idea of dietary proteins is not how the body works. Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly. Oliver

[@stuartgray5136]

Absolutely fabulous podcast. I think it has helped me solve a problem. My heath and fitness journey started back in November of 2014. I was 270+ Pounds. I'm 6'1½ the program I set up for myself (based on losing 2 pounds a month) when according to schedule. I ended up dropping around 100 pounds. Over approximately 4 years. At about 58 months I committed to the gym to get back the the muscle mass I lost along the way. I was lean had 6 pack abs. I have gain back muscle mass. Now- in the past 1½ due to listening to many podcast about gaining muscle and protein. We are told about 1 gram of protein for every pound of muscle. I wanted to get to 180 pounds so I increased my protein from around 70 to 80 grams a day to 180 to 200 grams a day. What I've noticed (and note I had gain back muscle mass) is my abs are starting to dissappear. And I have a bit of a fat build up along a line at my belly button. Couldnt figure out the problem without probably going on a calorie restriction diet. I had a calorie intake at the time I was goingbto increase my protien between 2800 cals to 3200 cals per day. I replaced certain foods to compensate for my protein increases staying around the the same amount of calories 2800 to 3200. Side note: through my weight loss I was consuming I figure around 80 grams of protein. From this podcast I learned that excess protein is broken down into carbs and stored fat. Bingo! My fat gains around my abdominal are probably from the excess protein. Now I'm an going to go back to the 80 grams of protien and see what happens over time. Changing nothing but reduced protein from were I'm currently at. This makes sence to me since sine the only real change was increased protein levels. Thanks great info. I was 58 when I started my health and fitness journey and now I'm 67. Thank- Stuart Gray.

[@NoSmoke1]

Keep it up Mr. Gray ‼️💪🏽💪🏽

[@tomatojuice12]

Wow! So you are saying that the excess protein caused that extra belly fat?

[@remcogeelen]

​@@tomatojuice12Yes he is. As in, it probably did.

[@remcogeelen]

​@@tomatojuice12Excess protein intake is just excess calory intake. Some will surely be turned into sugar and/or fat. So for most people, even fit people going to gyms and all, 100+ grams of protein per day means nothing else than growing fat slowly.

[@spongebobsquaretits]

@@remcogeelen 100 grams is only 400 calories. Its not really excessive

[@VesS0ul]

Whoever hosts a discussion between Christopher Gardner and Peter Attia will become a legend!

[@Dan-dg9pi]

Fantastic interview. Extremely useful information.

[@priscillaallen5276]

Very interesting to hear the research behind the recommendations. Lots of new research is going on thankfully. I am 73 and have found a very noticeable improvement in my nails, hair and skin after I added collagen to my diet at 72. I must have been deficient in these most of my life because they have been a problem as long as I can remember. I have always taken care to eat well but a normal good diet was deficient.

[@luscao8444]

Hands down the best thing I've seen this week. Brilliant podcast!

[@HolyAdventure3107]

If i had a teacher like Mr. Gardner in school then i probably would love my Schooltime. Its a pleasure to listen to him and the way he explains things. Thanks a lot for this great Podcast. Stay healthy everyone! ❤🙏

[@KAZVorpal]

Except that guy's completely wrong. He completely ignores six different important factors in protein digestion. And all the studies that say protein is so important that eating things low in quality protein actually increases our appetite, contributing to overeating.

[@sgordon8123]

​@KAZVorpal yes I agree he ignored the role of hunger in making people eat more and the role of protein to satiate ...

[@KAZVorpal]

@@sgordon8123 Not just any protein, it needs to be complete protein, like animal products.

[@orbifold4387]

The problem is that others like Don Layman are claiming the opposite, that iis we are not consuming enough protein. The idea that we should be consuming at least 2-3 protein-rich meals daily isn't discussed here. By "protein-rich", I mean enough protein to stimulate protein synthesis (muscle growth and repair), which is equivalently to consuming at least 2-5g of leucine in a single meal. According to Layman, most Americans only eat one protein-rich meal a day (usually dinner) and spend up to 22 hours per day wasting precious muscle mass in a catabolic state. To stop this catabolic state after an overnight fast, one could eat 4-5 eggs, or 100g of chicken breast. But as much as I like hummus, half a kilo of the stuff right after waking up is way too much for my poor lazy gut.

[@akospokovai413]

It's so frustrating that these doctors state exactly the opposite. one side says "You need only 0.8g protein/kg/day", the other says "you need 30gprotein per meal, below that it goes to waste because mtor is not stimulated". And all of them are 100% sure that they are right. And all of them have spent their whole life studying that and get the opposite result. So, if the 30g/meal protein requirement is valid, and beans are the "good" protein is valid , then you need to eat 1.5 can of beans 3 times a day to get enough leucine for each meal. nonsense.

[@marktapley7571]

Note also that eating all that grain will spike a lot of insulin (fat storage) in order to get the little bit of protein.

[@spiral-m]

@@marktapley7571 the traditional Okinawans didn't have any problem with high carb. Whole and refined carbs are like night and day, despite what some religiously claim.

[@paulb8251]

Your body is extremely complex and you don’t need to consume a “compete protein” in one meal to utilize the other essential amino acids within those proteins. You can do that with plants you don’t need the eggs and chicken breast. Humans wouldn’t have made it this far in evolution of that were the case.

[@akospokovai413]

@@paulb8251 Don Layman states exactly the opposite.

[@sonjawells4265]

This is the best ZOE show I have ever watched.😀 I would love to hear more from the two of you. Incredible how much I have learned and now understand. Thank you ever so much!!!🤩

[@drbiosgmailacc5191]

You have no idea how long I've been searching the internet for amino acid info you shared in this video. Thank you!

[@andrewhostynski7701]

Extremely informative and presented in great style by a charming expert. Thank you.

[@osilva2367]

I didn't learn anything new, but I really appreciate the ability to make very important information about basic protein and dietary requirements very clear for the general public. I wish everyone could watch this.

[@candoit123]

How do you calculate your protein intake? Cause if I measure I get no where near 1.6g of protein per body weight you suggested the average person is probably getting without supplements

[@osilva2367]

@markriddle9749 I'm not sure your question is for me. I do not calculate or keep track of my protein intake. I eat a very balanced vegan diet. I've been vegan for 55 years, and I don't have any deficiencies.

[@carlo5442]

🌱💚

[@oliverleslie7382]

Here's something new: Professor Gardner is a nice guy, a smart guy - but once again, the sad reality is that what he knows, how he learned, was trained etc. is outdated data. Science is not static but it seems that with nutrition science - it very much is static. What we know today, 2023, November 28th at the time of this comment, is that we can't use dietary, supplementary, exogenous proteins and amino acids. @resurgem Which means, the statement "if we don't get proteins or AAs, we die" is incorrect. We humans, just like all the other 9 million species on earth, are genetically predisposed to make all the nutrients we need. Yes, the body can convert atmospheric Nitrogen, N2, into the user friendly N3 - so the nitrogen Balance standard for testing is moot null and void - another bit of old science understandings that were more assumptions than actual fact. Labs are now showing humans can in fact synthesize the so called essential amino acids like Leucine, Lysine, Threonine etc. Vegans are not lacking any nutrient in their diets. Those who fast for 20, 30, 40, 50 day water fasts are also not lacking any amino acids, or proteins etc. - and are not dying. The idea that we break down dietary proteins into the amino acids and then the body re employs them to make X - is false, it was stuff of yesteryear, an era where we had no way to really show this, no way to really prove this - and the number one reason for why we could not prove this, 50 years ago, or in the 1940s, the time the 'essential' narrative was born, was because we simply did not have the technology. And guess what, today, 2023, we Still don't have the tech to show exogenous proteins get cleaved, broke down to AAs and then those AAs go somewhere and get rebuilt into new proteins. In a lab, petri dish dynamics, we have some ideas about proteins and amino acids, but not at all in living cells that exist en vivo in real time, in living organisms. Even tagging and tracking proteins and AAs is poor science lacking in true tech to observe what happens when food is digested. The idea of dietary proteins is not how the body works. Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly. Oliver

[@barbh6987]

I learned something here and not stressing about my diet will help. We have so many other things to worry about which is probably why we all feel a little sick. My question here is I was told I had osteoporosis and needed more protein and of course supplements because I have been a vegetarian for 50 years. I did up my dairy intake slightly and ate fish a few times, begrudgingly and took my vitamins D and B12. I didn't do really anything else and in less than 2 years gained enough bone mass to be called osteopenia. My doctor was shocked. I guess I was too because they painted a poor picture for me to heal my bones. I wonder now if I really need more protein or was it the vitamins that help process what I would normally get is the plain and simple answer. So I don't need to add fish protein to my vegetarian diet. I guess I'll see in a year on next bone scan.

[@andrewilson8096]

Minerals... that's what you needed. That comes from living food, fruits and vegetables. If your diet has alot of pasta and bread that uses unsprouted flour or other unsprouted grains all the minerals will not get absorbed. Without fish and the constant use of those unsprouted grains you will be in deficient. Hence, why foods with enzymes and probiotics are so important; like kimchi or sauerkraut. They help in breaking down the foods to allow that absorption. The more of those grains you eat, the deficiency becomes much much greater. Fish helps with the same amino acids being mentioned in the video, the unsprouted grains and flours inhibit the minerals necessary for the processing of the amino acids. Minerals are used for processes in the body.

[@frogsplorer]

Consider vitamin K2, especially mk4. I think it carboxylates osteocalcin, or something. Anyway I believe it is important for teeth and bones

[@edgbarra]

Probably the vit d helped a lot. Most people are deficient and it's crucial to help calcium get into the bone

[@Engrave.Danger]

Every natural plant source of protein contains anti-nutrients that reduce protein absorption, such as fiber, trypsin and protease inhibitors. As we age, our ability to utilize the protein we consume diminishes and so we need more. Yes, all of the amino acids are found in plants but their ratios and bioavailability are poor, plus you'll have to consume a lot of carbohydrates and omega-6 with ALA that has a poor omega-3 conversion. If you wanna get your protein from plants, a protein supplement is a better way to go.

[@andrewilson8096]

@@Engrave.Danger I see you weren't educated on how to counter those anti nutrients in plants.

[@christopherward5065]

This is very reassuring I have thought this for a long time. I looked at all the amino-acids in my Stryer textbook as a first year undergrad and I saw biochemical Lego. The proteins could be built from animal and plant sourced amino acid and whilst I didn’t think about recommended dietary requirements I guessed it would be very hard not to get everything needed from an ordinary diet. Then I saw people buying giant buckets of protein powder and wondered why that was a worthwhile activity. Proteins are endlessly fascinating and horribly misunderstood. Really cool discussion!

[@scratchy996]

I grew up in a village where everyone was doing manual labor, either working in forestry, agriculture or construction. Those guys all looked like Greek gods, without going one day to the gym or wasting one cent on a protein shake.

[@gforce9596]

​@@scratchy996 Yeah I read about "bio-availability" (excuse me if I'm using the wrong term) - meaning the way we absorb protein can be changed by the way we cook - consuming a raw egg makes you get "the most" out of the protein in the egg, versus scrambling and overcooking it.

[@scratchy996]

@@gforce9596 On the other hand , one study found that the body is able to absorb 90% of the protein found in cooked eggs compared to only 50% in raw eggs. So there's that. The point is to not stress about proteins, that's an extra worry you don't need in your life. Be concerned about eating healthy foods in general and stay active. One of the main reasons rural guys in my country look so ripped is that their mothers or wives stay at home and take care of the household. Everyone has their vegetable garden and farm animals, they cook the vegetables, eggs, meat, milk they grow themselves. No supermarket stuff and especially no American supermarket stuff, with ingredients so dangerous, they are illegal in Europe.

[@gforce9596]

@@scratchy996 yes, it's important to remember that studies only account for the people who participated in it

[@greuju]

​@@scratchy996yeah that's just a silly earlier statement then. "My village is a farm and they eat a bunch of eggs everyday and they have muscle." No shit. Of course they'll be in shape doing manual labor and eating a perfect diet. If they only had green beans and lentils what would they look like? I don't like using processed foods but a cup of whey is cheaper than the protein from eggs. Plenty of African body builders eat their normal rice heavy diet with whey supplementation.

[@rmoore1969]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🤖 Introduction to Protein 03:03 🧬 Protein's Role and Complexity 07:34 🍽️ Protein Requirements: EAR and RDA 17:12 🏋️‍♂️ Controversy over Protein Intake 22:05 🥖 Carbohydrates vs. Fat Storage 23:50 🍗 Protein Storage in the Body 25:08 🍖 Protein and Kidney Health 26:36 🏋️ Protein Requirements for Athletes 28:51 🧒 Protein Needs at Different Ages - Children 30:10 🧓 Protein Needs at Different Ages - Elderly 35:14 🌱 Plant-Based Protein vs. Animal Protein 39:21 🍲 Healthiest and Tastiest Protein Sources 42:31 🍔 Protein and Diet 43:00 🥩 Plant-Based Protein 44:50 🍫 Protein Bars vs. Chocolate Bars Made with HARPA AI

[@resurgem]

Thank you, this is helpful.

[@jhor729]

doing the good work

[@Muuip]

Thank you!!👍

[@mubizz80]

If the body cannot differentiate proteins from plants or animals and sugars from natural fruits and industrial sugars, then it's true, all the so-called educated elites are nothing but a bunch of crooks and liars. We should focus back on our foreparents' ways of natural feeding.

[@rahulbhati439]

Thanks so much!

[@tomdorsey1928]

Glossing over protein bio-availability seems like a huge gap in this discussion. If I use a protein source in my diet that is not digestible that means I would need to eat more of it to get the same level in the body right?

[@OdinsSage]

Yes, but this discussion was about averages, not the outliers. There are people who struggle more to absorb certain amino acids, but generally having a well balanced whole food diet is enough to make up for those areas of stuggle.

[@elvnprince]

Yes, bioavailability is so important!!! People are so used to not feeling great that they think it doesn't matter.

[@gymratnoah2259]

Do you think taking BCAA supplements would help if you don't have a balanced whole food plant based diet?

[@sosalty701]

Yes, and there’s a Protein Bioavailability Scale for a reason. Also physical activity matters.

How do you know that it's very important? What studies do you have to back that up?

[@user-xb6fl9ri6g]

would love to hear his thoughts on intermittent fasting since that's the only thing that's really worked for me to regulate my weight/health

[@lazyidealist]

If you can explain it simply, you know it well enough. Dr. Christopher demonstrated this .

[@koraXro]

It's like asking: Is it true that you were born on your birthday? 😅 The way questions are structured you can reach whatever conclusion you want. After watching and reading and listening to so many opinions and specialist the conclusion is always the same: 1. Don't overeat, 2. Eat all groups of foods 3. Don't eat processed foods and sugars 4 . Hydrate 5. (the most important) do things that make you happy, stress is the silent killer

[@sanbiki1453]

Yep, I got to same conclusion yesterday. After so many contradictory evidences on diets, I got overwhelmed and messed up my brain. I thought how on earth can all of them show science that this and this diet cures cancer ( currently treating my husband’s tumor). I cried out of despair, because I got so confused. And finally, got to the same conclusion as you mentioned here, so true, so true!

[@pavloshtefanesku5109]

... unless stress makes you happy ;) Exercises, cold shower and even alarm clock - are good stressors if used properly :)

[@robinhood4640]

They all think that they are thinking out of the box, when in reality they just climbed out of the big box into a little box. Now they shout from the little box that their diet is absolutely amazing and everyone else is lying when they show that their diet works. Whenever a specific diet doesn't work, the next step is to filter the water you drink and the air you breathe and when things start getting better it's because of the amazing diet. The same amazing diet you followed for two years without seeing any benefits.

[@godnyx117]

@@sanbiki1453 Carbohydrates are sugar with extra steps. Sugar (sucrose) is Disaccharide (link of two Monosaccharides) of the Monosaccharides Glucose and Fructose. Carbohydrates are complex connections from 11 up to thousands of them. But in the end, the break down to glucose, fructose and galactose. You can find more on Wikipedia and you can see KZbin videos that analyze it better. Good luck to your husband, hope everything goes well!

[@godnyx117]

@@pavloshtefanesku5109 Nope! You may get used to it but it never makes you "happy". I do know a guy who has said that he likes the "productive stress" and he takes antidepressants (which despite my own depression and even suicidal thoughts, I never taken) and when he tried to cut them (or lower them a lot, I don't remember exactly), it effected him negatively. Your hidden stress will always manifest in your life somehow! This may be the chronic feeling that things are never enough and that you are truly never happy, it might be aggression, it might be fair, it might be physical and physiological health problems, it can be anything. Stress is the biggest killer in life!

[@bazs7669]

Great discussion and very informative. The presenter was excellent asking interesting questions and providing a useful summary at the end.

[@climate-moneymakingcampaig305]

Short term studies have always been found decieving, including this one here

[@piper6878]

The host is terribly irritating. Stop interrupting. Garbage host. We are in a flow state into 5th gear, and interrupting the speaker keep putting the entire conversation into 1st gear.

[@tapiomakinen]

Now I'm confused. I just finished watching Peter Attia(MD) interview Don Lyman(Ph.D), who is a professor emeritus of nutrition at the University of Illinois. The overall message was quite different from this one. Just when I thought, that now I know everything I need to know about protein and nutrition, I'm told the truth is, actually, quite the opposite.

[@tomburroughes9834]

I agree. I don't see many people building lots of muscle on a vegetarian diet, although much depends on what they exactly eat.

[@BJ-ui2rc]

@@tomburroughes9834 Lol there's a whole swath of vegan bodybuilders on youtube. Type it in the search bar and see what comes up. You could say the same about omnivores except that when I look around the average person is fat, not muscular, not strong, has very little endurance, and probably has a chronic health problem attributed to diet. They're eating a lot of meat too, so it seems that the meat isn't doing them any favors and probably has to do with the TRAINING.

[@uploadsnstuff8902]

It's because your body can store "proteins" in what is called free amino acid pools, it's biology 101. Not sure why Gardner is saying the opposite, but any google scholar search on this topic will turn hundreds of papers contradicting him. He is right on many topics, but saying that the body can't store proteins is 100% wrong, since he just explained that proteins are made of amino acids, which are stored in the plasma and cellular spaces. Those pools represent about 200g of the total amino acids of a 70kg individual, and are used in many metabolic reaction and protein turnover.

[@tapiomakinen]

@@uploadsnstuff8902 Thank you! I googled 'free amino acid pool' and spent 2 hours in that rabbit hole. Since you seem to know a thing or two about nutrition, I shamlessly take the opportunity and ask you a question about fiber, which these Zoe people are big fans of. Has insoluble fiber any other digestive function than mechanical stool pushing one? I have been told, that the soluble ones help creating short chain fatty acids, which are beneficial. Thus I am experimenting with only eating soluble fibers, and my gut seems happier now than before. Am I missing something here?

[@steveself9314]

Look up Doctor Robert Morse, and the first verse of the bible for the beautiful (though still difficult) truth

[@peternumber19]

I've been participating in Stanford's folding@home project for 15yrs. Folding proteins using distributed computing. Presumably nothing to do with Prof Gardner's work though. This video is very useful on the subject of plant protein balancd. Thanks

[@maleks3121]

I have been vegetarian/vegan since I was 7 years old. I'm in my mid twenties. I run, hike, read, write. I feel good. Thanks for reassuring me I'm fine!!

[@gapat8213]

You are but majority of people wouldnt be.

[@newwonderer]

it is strange that you need "reassuring" ... you can feel it : if you feel great - then you wouldn't need it

[@oppothumbs1]

Watch out for Iron deficiency. B-12. low Creatine. Carnosine. Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). You should supplement. Vegetarian men live for an average of 7 years longer than non-vegetarian men but it's 7 very painful years.

[@barbh6987]

Yes, and start the d3, probably 1000IU and B12 1000 MCG. That's what I take. I'm a vegetarian for 50 years and just improved my bones to osteopenia. Keep a close watch of your bone health lots of walking and weight bearing exercises. You'll be just fine!

[@toulcas3448]

The point is to keep doing this till your mid seventies and be healthy.

[@peterfarr9591]

He's very charismatic and clearly quite sharp most of his reasoning for lower protein intake is mechanistic and doesn't take into account a multitude of studies that have shown benefits from much higher protein intake then the RDA. Sure, from a mechanistic point of view you could do the math and recommend insanely low protein intakes for weight lifters but real world data just doesn't bear that out at all

[@laurabenavides5444]

What I understood is that as long as you eat the 40 amino acids that are found in both plants and meats, you should be ok. Doesn't matter where is coming from. Also, it makes sense for people in the carnivore diet to be fine because meat has all the 40 amino acids they need to survive, unless they have liver and kidney issues? I wanted him to address ultra process food, but oh well.

[@nimkal]

​@@laurabenavides5444 but it does matter... vegan protein is much less bio available for humans and will not be absorbed as efficiently

[@laurabenavides5444]

@@nimkal not according to what he says. But I am not a nutritionist or dietician, or a doctor. However, I know people that are vegan and they are healthy and physically look great.

[@nimkal]

@@laurabenavides5444 vegans have tons of mineral and vitamin deficiencies and must supplement to remain healthy. It's not a diet meant for humans.

[@robokill387]

Bodybuilders and athletes need more protein than he average person, yes. However, most people are eating far, far more protein than they need to, most protein people eat is excreted in urine, that's a basic verifiable fact.

[@gillyfranklin1550]

You mentioned that if you are trying to build muscle through strength-training, you may benefit from an extra ~20g protein on top of the RDA (0.8g/kg body weight) to account for muscle breakdown during exercise followed by muscle repair/growth. Would this only apply on the days you are actively working out or would there be a benefit to consuming an additional 20g every day, regardless of activity?

[@tymondabrowski12]

Probably doesn't matter much, all food you eat kinda gets averaged within a week. So the only difference is overall added amount.

[@oliverleslie7382]

Actually, only sugar can build muscles. Professor Gardner is a nice guy, a smart guy - but once again, the sad reality is that what he knows, how he learned, was trained etc. is outdated data. Science is not static but it seems that with nutrition science - it very much is static. What we know today, 2023, November 28th at the time of this comment, is that we can't use dietary, supplementary, exogenous proteins and amino acids. @resurgem Which means, the statement "if we don't get proteins or AAs, we die" is incorrect. We humans, just like all the other 9 million species on earth, are genetically predisposed to make all the nutrients we need. Yes, the body can convert atmospheric Nitrogen, N2, into the user friendly N3 - so the nitrogen Balance standard for testing is moot null and void - another bit of old science understandings that were more assumptions than actual fact. Labs are now showing humans can in fact synthesize the so called essential amino acids like Leucine, Lysine, Threonine etc. Vegans are not lacking any nutrient in their diets. Those who fast for 20, 30, 40, 50 day water fasts are also not lacking any amino acids, or proteins etc. - and are not dying. The idea that we break down dietary proteins into the amino acids and then the body re employs them to make X - is false, it was stuff of yesteryear, an era where we had no way to really show this, no way to really prove this - and the number one reason for why we could not prove this, 50 years ago, or in the 1940s, the time the 'essential' narrative was born, was because we simply did not have the technology. And guess what, today, 2023, we Still don't have the tech to show exogenous proteins get cleaved, broke down to AAs and then those AAs go somewhere and get rebuilt into new proteins. In a lab, petri dish dynamics, we have some ideas about proteins and amino acids, but not at all in living cells that exist en vivo in real time, in living organisms. Even tagging and tracking proteins and AAs is poor science lacking in true tech to observe what happens when food is digested. The idea of dietary proteins is not how the body works. Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly. Oliver

[@ningunoag]

@@oliverleslie7382 source it up

[@chavez349]

Daily

[@mikelord93]

You didn't post a link to the 60's studies where they measured nitrogen to figure out the neccessary ammount of amino acids. Did those people exercize during this study? What was the muscle to fat ratio of the paricipants? How long were the studies done for? What impact did the different diets have on other metrics, like blood sugar?

[@stereosympathy]

Such an interesting topic! I’m about 1/4 the way through Herman Pontzer’s book, Burn and it’s blowing my mind on how the body works from a physiological nutrient standpoint. Great interview!

[@fpl_god]

Whats the name of the book?

[@sooparticular]

@@fpl_god we cant tell you that

[@greatedges]

Thank you for this excellent discussion. It was fun, with lots of information to "digest." 😉

[@robz9988]

From what I understand the RDA recommendation is meant to be a minimum, not an optimal amount. Secondly the recommendations are substantially below the 1g per pound (2.2g per kilo) recommended by others such as Dr Layman and Dr Lyons amongst others. It would be helpful if there could be an explanation as to why Professor Gardner differs from others who focus on this area. Also as we get older our ability to utilise protein goes down so we need more for that reason. Lastly the protocols recommended by Dr Layman says that in order to trigger the utilisation of the amino acids in protein there needs to be a minimum intake per meal of 20g (if you are younger) so that there is adequate Leucine etc to start the process.

[@aminreviews2311]

Although there are differences in what experts recommend as a daily requirement (0.8mg/kg vs 1mg/kd vs 1.2mg/kg), virtually all of these experts recognize that most people are eating more than any of these amounts without even trying. So it’s kind of a moot issue unless someone is on a low calorie diet.

[@MarmaladeINFP]

Many of the people in the field of nutrition state that a significant number of Americans don't get enough protein. We've been indoctrinated in a society that has warned against animal foods that are the main sources of bioavailable complete proteins.

[@god8348]

@@aminreviews2311people try to optimize certain aspects of their body and health. The American average is certainly not a good measurement in this regard

[@Alec_Collins78]

Yep. The internet is full of rich men who think their bank balances show their intelligence.

[@itsema91]

This is such a wonderful podcast, instead of having an argument about protein with people I will just forward this to them from now on

[@clairecadoux471]

Brilliant. Love this. I need 42g protein apparently, so now I will measure what I am in fact consuming. I suspect it is more. I raised my protein intake a few years ago - I feel better....no more hypoglycemia moments.

[@TunaCanGuzzler]

yeah, don't just take things as truth because a 'expert' tells you these things. go by feel, and read the studies.

[@clairespace3371]

This evidence based information is wonderfully explicit. Beautifully explained. So great to have a person on your expertise confirming individuals are different. We need to learn to listen to our bodies eat more when you need it eat less when you do less, consider what you eat when you are getting old. It's not difficult. Thanks for this!!!

[@DemiousStudios]

The evidence? What evidence? This is ALL THEORY. "Evidence" is when you put your THEORY to the test and yield repeatable results. Where are the top vegan athletes who TRAINED as a vegan to achieve physiologic excellence? Sure, there are a FEW post-success vegans. Show me someone in peak human form who has been strictly vegan for longer than five years and THAT would be "evidence".

[@sarthaksharma9120]

Such an amazing and interesting podcast/conversation/video I’m subscribing to your channel since i loved this content.

[@carmenmichaelian8307]

I always knew this but now I know for sure. I'm a vegetarian that eats fish once in a while. I've been working out at the gym for 25 years and I have no problem with protein. I am 70 years old. Thank you for this video.

[@GeorginaHannaford-zw6cl]

@carmenmichaelian8307 I'm the same (vego, very strong active and healthy) but recently had a bone density scan and was found to be low. Have you ever had this scan? I'm 52 pre-menopausal and calcuim and vit D all fine.

[@m007mm]

​@@GeorginaHannaford-zw6cloxalates take calcium out of your blood. And your body takes it out of your bones. PlantsDefendThemselvesWithToxins...

[@m007mm]

Many people heal from many different diseases on an animal based diet.

[@carmenmichaelian8307]

I had that test also and my bones are dense. I had a hip replacement 6 years ago. I started drinking collagen 3 years ago and it helps. I believe that a good diet, low stress, and exercise are what make me healthy. I have hypothyroidism too. I eat vegetables, grains, beans and whatever has proper nutrition. I always move my body and have a mindful attitude.

[@ervinreyes6302]

If you eat fish do not label yourself as vegetarian.

[@williambunting803]

I’d love to hear the the balance of Protein with Minerals. That was a brilliant talk, I love Christophers’s presentation style.

[@OdinsSage]

Protein is a macro nutrient, minerals are a micro nutrients. So those are two different categories.

[@mdariani]

Excellent episode. I'm learning so much about nutrition and food in the last months from Zoe and other KZbin science channels. I changed my diet according to what how I've seen, read and heard in all the interviews, podcasts, articles and books. I feel so much better. My whole body changed to the positive. Life quality improved a lot. Everything I knew as a kid, teenager and young adult was wrong. It started with the myth that orange juice is great (which is not the case... it's purely sugar) and now I'm learning that we dont need a lot of protein. Now the problem for me is that the more I learn about food and nutrition the less I know what is correct and true. There are enough other scientist and professors from the best universities in the world who say something different about the amount of protein we need. In the end I guess you have to find it out for yourself. Test and learn what is best for you. Do check your blood values regularly by a doctor who is specialised in this field so that you can see the effects and nothing goes wrong.

[@JW4REnvironment]

Well said! I completely agree that mainstream media has let us all down overall. By seeking real experts like Professor Gardner, I know I am doing much, much better at getting healthful foods every day. I especially appreciate the Physician's Committee and the Exam Room, which give lots of good advice!

[@oniichan5153]

i really would suggest lokking at presentations from low carb down under, this video has 6000 dislikes to 18000 likes it seems quite untrustable at least look at an another source explaining the importans of animal amino acids

[@dawncramer6282]

Thank you, Prof. Gardner. Your talk was eye-opening! It's plant based nutrition for me from now on. Bless you.

[@scottperry7311]

This is a great video and has a lot of useful information. But I have learned to listen to my body when it comes to protein intake. I am closing in on 60 years of age, I lift weights (Light to moderate), I run 2k five times a week, I also walk 5+k five times a week, and also do some yard work and other work that is physical. I also only eat during the day, and don't eat for 12 to 16 hours. I have found that I need to take a protein supplement, about 50 grams a day. How do I know I need to eat the extra protein, I noticed that my finger nails don't grow and my muscles ache if I don't go out of my way to eat extra protein. Plant base diets don't work for me competely, I have tried, I need to eat meat a couple of times a week and also take a protein supplement. I learned this after decades of experimentation, and this is what works for me and the way I live.

[@kalilg2242]

Good stuff, nothing beats experience. I am mid 30s and came to the same conclusions the past year or so. 1-2 fat servings of protein a week and that's it and that even may be overdoing it. I eat 90% fruit and avoid most regular/normal foods actually but now my hair that had been balding is slowly growing back.

[@veryflow1156]

Yes but most people are saying eat everyday​@@kalilg2242

[@itsBenChang]

Could also consider collagen. There are several types of collagen to get more specific amino acids for your hair, skin, nails, joints etc.

[@justinklenk]

Likewise - same here, man. That's the real _in-vivo,_ empirical evidence.

[@FuzzyBearYT]

What the professor doesn't discuss at all is the efficiency of different proteins. Beans have a rating of less than half that of meat or eggs. So 50g of lentil protein isn't the same as 50g of beef protein, REGARDLESS of the fact the amino acid distribution might be broadly the same. So in reality, vegetarians struggle to get the required protein, and look thin and older.

[@peterparahuz7094]

apparently consuming protein keeps you satiated longer than eating the equivalent calories in carbs. if so, consuming a higher proportion of calories from protein could aid in maintaining a calorie deficit during a weight loss diet.

[@77dris]

Bingo.

[@lejlateletovic5225]

Fibers + fat + protein is what keeps us satiated. And everything that raises insulin levels will make us hungry faster.

[@oliverleslie7382]

ifbacongrewontrees.wordpress.com/2023/09/14/how-do-you-get-your-proteins/

[@SL-wt8fm]

​@@lejlateletovic5225why tho?

[@bjmaston]

The proximate answer is: it’s evolutionary. The ultimate answer may never be known. I speculate that carbs were hard to come by for most of history and humans evolved a gorge response to take advantage of whenever they were found.

[@natpaolone3897]

prof. Don Layman, most cited protien researcher, “need at least 1.5gm protein per kg to increase muscle mass.” A discussion with these 2 fine men would be helpful 😊

[@papazjose1274]

The reason why we have (2) totally opposite scientific results is because people are different. Meaning these (2) scientists are both correct as long as you personally fit the respective model. In my case, I do not digest beans, but tofu. So, beans are out. In addition when I cut out or limit carbs I always lose weight and my blood sugar is stable. Blood sugar=Insulin levels highly dictate how fat a person is or will continue to gain weight. I have a bunch of my friends who are high carb burners, They can eat a loaf of bread and feel great. I eat the same loaf of bread, and I break into hives, have shortness of breath, etc.. Hope this makes sense

[@lokanoda]

Yes! Absolutely! I feel all these smart people are usually staying within their bias-confirming echo chambers. An intelligent discussion would be awesome.

[@uweschroeder]

Strange, I eat at least that but all that increases is the belly, not the muscle mass 🙂

[@natpaolone3897]

@@uweschroeder likely it’s not the protien increasing the body fat. Try just eating the protein. Belly will disappear.

[@uweschroeder]

@@natpaolone3897 I don't think much of malnutrition diets. Keto being one of them. I think if I would stop drinking that liter of wine a day the belly would disappear no matter what I eat...

[@nonickch]

Preamble: I eat fruits/veggies, legumes and meat in prodigious amounts to hit my macros for many years now. Let's run some calculations if I tried to get my daily protein ONLY from legumes. I'm a 90kg male, on a 0.5% bg cut per week, which puts my calorie target at about 2100 kcals/day. My "definitely safe for a cut" target for protein is 90*2=180g of protein and the "eh, you're getting low" is 90*1.6= 144g. So 144-190g of protein in 2100kcal. Running the numbers with beans: 347kcal for for 21g of protein. So in order to get my top target I need to eat 180/21*347=2.974 kcal a day. This is already 800+ kcal over my target. My low target is 144/21*347=2379kcal, which is STILL over my calorie target. Did I mention 0.5%/week is considered a low number? People cut with 1% all the time. My combination of fruits/veggies/legumes on a daily basis gets my carbs/fiber in order while getting some protein in (unlike bread/pasta). But in order to get both calorie and protein targets right, I need a relatively clean source of protein. And that is for me chicken and other lean cuts of meat/fish. Low-fat greek yogurt, some eggs etc. No, getting fed protein powder is not a viable option long-term or on a cut.

[@Theraiderofarcs]

Great interview. I like the part where he says basically if you just eat a healthy diet you will meet your protein needs. See I always thought if you eat a healthy diet for your caloric needs you will be deficient on everything. So it’s good to know if I eat good foods my body will be fine. It’s also interesting he skipped right over bioavailability. That’s usually a taking point about protein and nutrition in general. Is the bioavailability of protein equal between plants and animal products. If it isn’t how big of a difference is there. He also does not mention how people who are lower wages get protein in their diet. What are the studies of that?

[@AaronVets]

Watch the whole video. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@DevPreston]

This was very useful. I do weight training for muscle gain, non-competing, and I am well aware how much people like me are targeted by sales which may have zero benefit above placebo.

[@MRNICE-987]

Thanks guys means alot very informative and well explained great podcast 👍🏼👏

[@Taxi4B]

Interested to hear his thoughts on protein requirements for bodybuilding, as there are numerous studies showing optimum intake exceeding 1.8g/kg (0.8g/lb). However, here he suggests much lower is all they will ever need. These recommendations don't align. (I'm not referring to protein source just volume)

[@robertseybold3665]

I think he's referring to gen-pop non-lifters who are worried about not getting enough protein for their health. He also says that most people are already eating more than they need and get up to 1.6g/kg..... But if you watch your calories and get most of them from carbs and fats, chances are you're getting enough for general health, but not ideal amounts for muscle building, imo. This channel is bent on disproving everything (while selling their own program) and while the food industry is probably overselling protein for non-lifters, some of the clickbaity claims made here are not always helpful either. As someone stated above, lean protein (as well as lots of fiber) can help with satiety and it's not a bad idea to eat more of that and less pasta and white bread.

[@sapphosplace1878]

So I'm kind of in the same boat, trying to work out the details without diving into the rabbit hole of actually reading through experimental proceedures. I'll drop in some things that are my understanding, in case it helps someone: Bodybuilding studies get their results simplified into "this number x is best" while the experiment still shows gains for lower volume intake. It's a matter of good gains versus perfect, not of muscle loss vs muscle gain. There are a lot of studies in this kind of topic that involve a small number of participants. It's just kind of the nature of the field that large participant counts are super difficult to do. The .8g per kg number sounds like it assumes no active workload going into hypertrophy. I'm not sure of any number that's been speculated to represent the "volume of protein needed to respond to a hypertrophy". That's the number I'll be looking for next. Ultimately the numbers talking about higher numbers are based on measuring progress, rather than tracing nutrition pathways (such as measuring nitrogen output, like the .8g/kg study). There's both a "this is what happened" kind of truth to that kind of research, but there's also more experimemtal confounds, so it's just not comparable enough to subtract one number from another and begin speculating that this is represents the need when building muscle from hypertrophy. Then there's the whole "timing" issue, and of other nutrients involved (and possibly becoming confounds). There's also questions like "What triggers does our body use to make decisions on a nutrient pathway when hypertrophy happens?" Does the amount of protein in our gut at the moment matter? Our body is trying to maintain homeostasis. I don't think this man's input is meant, to be coming from a bodybuilding perspective (i.e. max growth) but more from a general fitness (some growth) perspective. The research he discussed on his own athletes, for example, tracked performance, not muscle growth. Although the numbers don't align, there's still room for each side to have some truth to it.

[@jwoolman5]

Bodybuilders are in their own category. They are trying to sculpt their bodies in certain unusual ways. They say that they actually are at their weakest when in top form for a competition, because while the muscles may look good to them - they aren’t really as functional as they would otherwise be. So you can’t really look at bodybuilder habits as a guide. We do know that high level athletes can and do thrive on plant-based diets, so if they need more protein - no problem getting it from plants. Which is the point. The body doesn’t care whether an amino acid comes from a bean or a chicken; it just cares that the amino acid is there in the pool when needed to construct our own unique proteins.

[@JJJ-ok7nc]

@@jwoolman595% of top athletes eat meat. Thanks.

[@BWater-yq3jx]

Bodybuilders on steroids are likely going to need an abnormal amount of protein; I think we can safely ignore that as a reference point. Unless you're juiced up.

[@user-dh3ng2uy4j]

Did a small calculation for my self and actually i'm astounded. Note: its a blow average calories day for me as a vegetarian (sometimes i just dont eat that much), but overall I eat like this rather consistently. I'm 90 kilo's (very tall, so its mostly in the bones): 75 grams of white rice, 150 grams of kidney beans, 150 grams of black beans, 100 grams of mais, 4 slices of bread, 3 slices of cheese, 50 grams of nuts, 250 grams of meager soft cheese (kwark), 25 grams of honey. In total this amounts between 1800 and 2000 kcal (all non-mentioned vegetables that come with it), which isnt a lot. But here's the surprising bit: its at least if not more than 105 grams of protein. Dispite not eating meat, i'm way above recommended protein levels. I'm baffled. I guess it really is THAT easy to get your proteins.

[@gillyfranklin1550]

I did the same. I weigh 63kg and have been aiming for around 1500calories for the past 20months of so as I'm trying to lose weight (while hoping to maintain as much muscle as possible through resistance training). If were to aim for 1.6g protein/1kg body weight, I should be getting around 100g protein per day. I did some calculations on my food intake based on a pretty average eating day and I'm only getting around 40-55g protein a day..... oops! Maybe I'm one of the few people who could benefit from upping the protein. I guess I can just experiment and see if it makes a difference!

[@KurtMcDowellOKC]

Yeah, my BMR points to an ideal of 2200 calories per day (without exercise), but I'm an avid cyclist so often can eat 600-800 calories more. When I started eating plant based, I was concerned, but after plugging a week's worth of meals in Chronometer, I averaged 98-120g of protein per day.

[@littlevoice_11]

Would love more discussion and clarification on specific amino acids in relation to longevity. For example soke research shows specific amino acids are related to anti aging (glycine) whilst others are thought to accelerate aging

[@alexm7310]

Excellent. Thoroughly enjoyable. Thank you!

[@mbsouthflorida]

The presenters missed 2 big benefits of Protein. Protein is the most satiating macronutrient (substantially more than carbs or fat) which means that when people prioritize it, they can comfortabley consume few calories. And when it is converted to energy, it actually costs a substantial amount of energy. For example, if 1 gram of protein which is supposed to have 4 calories is converted to energy, only about 3 calories will get converted, 1 calorie will burn during this process.

[@alinaa641]

Between eating grilled chicken with salad vs oat porridge with milk and walnuts, definitely porridge with walnuts will give me a sense of satiety, satisfaction and will keep me going for hours. No matter how much chicken I have, I feel it's not enough, I crave chocolates to top it up. The times I focused on protein and reducing carbs as much as possible were the most miserable times of my life, always feeling hungry. So I guess we're all very different.

[@zeynepgucbilmez8152]

Imagine eating a huge quantity of whole plant foods, most of which is totally low in calories. Plant based whole foods are so filling and low in calories, there is no comparison to high protein foods from animals. You will fill up, you will get all kinds of vitamins, minerals and polyphenols, plus high amounts of fiber, which you can't get with high protein animal foods. I can't see a comparison. A whole food vegan diet is just incredible. And very yummy to boot😋😋

[@jimn1023]

It bares repeating "we're all very different". There should be a warning label on all dietary podcasts

[@OmarTorrez]

Yes, but Fat is VERY satiating,,, but, yes, I was thinking the same thing.

[@its-movietime]

oat porridge with milk and walnuts... I'd just rather eat cement. Cereals are the worst kind of food there is, full of glyphosate, phytic acid, lectins and all kind of anti-nutrients that causes inflammation, which over time will give insulin resistance, and with the added carbs from the starch it contains it's a sure way to diabetes and feeling hungry all the time. When I gave up cereals I felt so much better and my hunger went away. Nuts have the same problem with lectins, so you have to put them in water for a day then dry slowly, and eat them more rare. I always avoid nuts because of bloating, constipation, rising my insulin and so on. Plants can be good but not eating them regularly, otherwise you don't give your body enough time to eliminate the toxins from plants (which are a lot). With a protein (and fat) diet, mostly animal, I eat less because I feel full, I don't feel hungry, I don't count calories, and I feel full of energy. Many years of vegetarian and even vegan was just worse for me. Maybe it works for others. And fiber is just garbage in your body, it's always causing more constipation. The humans stopped digesting cellulose a long long time ago, why is this garbage always recommended?

[@ayangangopadhyay8775]

Christopher Gardner has been my all time favourite, for the fact that he explains everything so lucidly and also Jonathan and Zoe is doing amazing podcasts with the bestest minds possible ...

[@JW4REnvironment]

Dr. Gardner is a brilliant scientist who has that rare knack of connecting with others as a peer and not as a pedantic talking head. Hats off to Dr. Gardner for communicating so expertly in simple layperson language. And he is really good-natured as he educates us and makes us feel included. Professor Gardner exemplifies how really insightful people know just how to break things down for way easier understanding by the listener. Bravo, Dr. Gardner! Stanford has really done a great public service by supporting Dr. Gardner's work and public outreach. My dad once taught at Stanford, as well, long ago when communication by scientists to the public was not so emphasized. It is great to see such superb science communication coming out of 21st Century Stanford which has real world impact on all of us who will listen to Dr. Gardner's insights!

[@geoffreylevens9045]

When you take into account the size of the total population there are a LOT of people in that "almost no one" category i.e. the tail of the bell curve. I was eating plant based and getting nearly 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. When I switched to animal protein my muscles rapidly increased in density and strength, my energy dramatically increased, my sleep improved, and my muscles slowly started to get bigger rather than slowly shrinking. And yes, I was doing resistance exercise on both sides of that.

[@lippylennnox]

@Geoffrey Levens. It's really disgusting to me how Gardner manipulates Science to promote his political agenda of Veganism. Gardner and his wife Melissa, a political scientist, have four sons together and all follow a plant-based diet. I don't even understand why he works in the field of human nutrition because clearly Vegans don't care about human health they only care about animals' lives, not human lives. Please carry on eating animals Geoffrey, it's our natural diet.

[@moiraflint]

Geoffrey Levens Thanks for info. Interesting. Do you think you were able to get healthy adequate calories for muscle building on your previous diet?

[@geoffreylevens9045]

@@moiraflint calories yes, easy. But the protein was a huge issue. Plant protein takes lot of tweaking to get enough of the key aminos and most plant protein powders are contaminated with heavy metals and glyphosate.

[@lippylennnox]

@@moiraflint The body does NOT store protein, once enough good quality animal protein is ingested (30 grams Animal protein min)contains enough Leucine is one of the 3 essential branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs)to activate MTOR which puts the body in an anabolic state(promoting metabolic activity concerned with the biosynthesis of complex molecules (such as proteins or nucleic acids) this process means you are building new muscle. The Human body is always in one of two statuses, Anabolic or catabolic, after this meal 2-3 hours later, MTOR returns to baseline. Anabolism is based on a meal-to-meal status that's why animal protein is superior because the Amino acid profile is superior and more absorbable than plant protein which has an inferior amino acid profile.

[@computerhelpcc]

animal-based protein includes many other nutrients, so protein to protein alone was not the real QA they should have done

[@bartzed4305]

was brought up on eating carbs and vegeteables and continued doing that into my adult life which then also turned into somewhat low fat diet (a lot of lean white meat), until it became unstustainable, couple years ago made red meat the staple of my diet (with small sides of veggies and fermented foods) and noticed almost an instant change, no more brain fog, heartburn, indigestion, flatulance, energy crashes or need for afteroon naps. Introducing more fat into my died on it's own made a massive difference to my cognitive perfomance. Still having carbs and veggies but sparingly and with purpose, to either relax and fall asleep better (starchy stuff) or improve performance when training (fruits and grains).

[@jimn1023]

Well said. Saved me some writing. The recommendations overlook glycemic index. If protein is being converted to carbs that slows the metabolism of the foods. He vilifies saturated fat yet up to a certain proportion in the diet it isn't harmful. My criticism is that he oversimplifies a subject that for a portion of the population can be incredibly complex achieving the balance of satiety and proper nutrition.

[@muratakkaya7406]

Thanks guys. Thank you for the interview.

[@jmc8076]

Brilliant. TBF other doctors and nutrition scientists have tried saying same for yrs. Always look at cited studies (esp funding sources) by experts and influencers. True objective source like Prof Gardner now rare. Time to move past division/labels to good science incl re/testing for well-being over profit? PS just subscribed.

[@hatezbaszaras]

It's clear that the podcast missed some crucial points about the benefits of extra dietary protein for body composition goals. They didn't touch on the mTOR pathway, the satiating effects, or the energy expenditure aspect. Overlooking these factors might leave listeners unconvinced, especially when it comes to understanding how protein can potentially lead to less fat gain compared to fat or carbs. Additionally, focusing solely on a group that maintains muscle mass doesn't address the broader goal of muscle growth that many individuals strive for. im quite disappointed

[@ondrej1893]

It seems some people measure "proteosynthesis", or at least measure it indirectly, and base protein recommendations on that measurement maxing out or peaking, and then they assume this should mean quicker muscle building over time, not necessarily more muscle overall, as we inevitably hit our genetic limit, just faster rate of muscle gain. But Brad Pilon rightly pointed out that if you actually measure muscle gain in studies, people simply gain 2 to 5 pounds of muscle on average over several months, and that is true also in studies with "low" levels of protein Christopher Gardener would recommend. Pilon's final recommendation was 70-120g of protein /day.

[@Wisey_83]

Yep. Difficult to stay interested when these things are not being considered. - it burns hotter. - its more satiating that carbs. He also left out the importance of one particular amino acid, Leucine. Literally the most important if you're wanting to maintain/build muscle/improve body comp.

[@Hao-hi3yb]

@@Wisey_83 it is without a doubt that increased protein consumption is necessary if you are consistently undergoing muscular hypertrophy, but carbs such as complex carbs often have a strong satiating effect in comparison to protein. I strongly recommend this video on it by RP kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJysfJipgK18f6c

[@rrteppo]

Yes, but it would have been a much longer video. This was a good light hearted intro interview for people to get interested in the topic.

[@SodaAvenue]

@hatezbaszaras all these you mentioned seems pretty complex terms for a clueless in how the body works scientifically wise for me. I'm not that interested in going full science based. You would lose me there. Do you or anyone know if there is any 30mins simpler yt videos explaining such terms more lightheartedly? Need some ideas as have some health issues and diet is pretty screwed up and am clueless. In terms how to get an idea for ppl whom constantly need intake small meals throughtout the day. Tyvm!

[@Darlemonte]

As soon as he said animal protein wasn't better than plant protein for the human body, I checked out. One simple fact. You need to eat a variety of plants in abundance every single day to not even equal just a daily small plate of steak and eggs. Even then the human body does not process them the same, efficiency and nutrient bioavailability wise. And yes, more protein does cause your body to lose more fat. Why! Because the overwhelming majority of people arent even meeting their individual daily protein intake requirement. They're filling their bellies with crap. And it doesn't matter short term what you choose. Plant based or not, eliminating all that crap from your diet is going to have a dramatic effect on your health and overall well being for months while your body and mind are FINALLY able to reset and balance out since you're not pumping them with a bunch of nonsense. But long term, youre going to feel and see the effects of not maintaining a balanced nutritional intake of HEALTHY meats and soke veggies/fruits. You are what you eat and the land it was harvested on. You are what you eat ate. Research where your food is coming from. I personally have not bought much from grocery stores outside of ice cream and other treats for years now. Farm direct meat from a farm i trust. And i have my own vegetable garden. (And chickens & honey bee hives).

[@Leo-gt1bx]

Same

[@user-lb3kc2bi8z]

I would have too, but I stayed. He later states that animal protein has optimal levels of a couple amino acids. However, USA citizens eat twice the necessary protein regardless of dietary preferences. Therefore, the amount of the suboptimal amino a acids mentioned becomes quite sufficient. The end total is a full profile of amino acids for the no-meat eater.

[@sloanmagnum5009]

Im an athlete and I have a routine weight lifting schedule. I eat a variable well rounded diet, all the food groups. I consume raw fruits and veggies and even make raw green smoothies. I dont eat a lot of red meat, i eat mostly chicken, pork, fish in terms of animal protien. One thing I knos for certain is that when I consume red meat in any given meal, I feel way more robust and stronger several hours after eating it.

[@Hyperion_Dark]

you should eat more red meat

[@sloanmagnum5009]

@@Hyperion_Dark unfortunately red meat/beef isn't affordable for a routine diet where I live.

[@MichaelJohnField]

Thanks for this. I've watched Christopher Gardner before in some KZbin interviews / podcasts (probably on Simon Hills 'The Proof' amongst others - and he's always excellent). But this was one of the clearest explanations of protein (and the amount one should take, and how the RDA was worked out) that I've ever listened too. So concise, but Chris is always entertaining and a joy to listen to. The explanation of the lab-rats in their blue suits was a stand-out moment. You can have Chris back at any point in the future - I could listen to him every day. best wishes Michael

[@frankplatenik5162]

BS

[@kwimms]

This x hippy dippy is NOT an expert in anything but babbling nonsense. Eat raw fruit seeds and herbs or suffer the consequences monkeys. What, you think you are like a dog or cat... they're the only animals that eat meat. Primates eat raw fruit. Hello? The highway to Hell will be crowded...

[@AnneAlready]

You're seduced lol.

[@MichaelJohnField]

@@AnneAlready 😂 it's true 🤣👍

[@imgettingold9407]

He got you😂😂😂

[@jwatkins672012]

Surprisingly never mentions mushrooms. I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but mushrooms having complete proteins in a fairly balanced distribution of essential amino acids are another key food in those diets. And cheap, one can take straw and use mushrooms to convert to protein. One 33 lb straw bale can convert to hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of mushrooms. Unlike nuts, mushroom allergies are rare.

[@gregtanner1444]

The explanation of the daily requirements of protein, whether from animal or plant sources, using the srabble analogy, was wonderfully informative. The recapping was brillliant. Many thanks !

[@user-xh1gs9mf3w]

Wow, I am so grateful for this podcast. I have been living on a vegan diet for nearly 9 months now (apart from once every two or three weeks the odd can of fish which are still stored in my pantry ) and started worrying about getting to little protein, as I am increasing my exercises bit by bit. I am 65, but I guess it is never too late to get fitter. And especially those promoting a carnivore diet constantly talk about vegans' protein deficiencies. So I will continue to mix my grains and beans and grow more muscles that way. :))

[@shane_rm1025]

Soy and pea protein supplements are your friend, they are complete proteins and rather inexpensive. Not saying not to focus on variety, but it's a bit like an insurance policy against insufficiency.

[@kroolini3678]

you're literally lacking essential amino acids because of the lower pdcaas score.You're just following a less healthy diet.

[@kroolini3678]

like there are a lot of studies that proof that plant based proteins aren't absorbed in the same way meat is. Women who get the majority of their protein from plants (but eat the same amount" have an on average lower muscle mass because of the decrease in absorption.

[@meliora99]

@@kroolini3678 source?

[@ebh6676]

@@kroolini3678yes please cite your source. The only real possibility of absorbing less protein could be higher fiber in the foods such as beans. It would be minimal and this absorption idea is tired and frankly just bro science. If one feels they need additional muscle just eat more food as all food if real food had protein.

[@aroundandround]

Loved the quantitative breakdown of the nuances of protein requirements.

[@stevenfrew9301]

Absolutely fascinating discussion and explained in a way simple enough for me to understand. "Stop obsessing about protein" must be my favorite line. It amuses me now that almost every food packaging I see in the supermarket has something written on it such as "Good source of protein" or "High in protein"

[@billygauthier9512]

I wonder how athletes and very fit people would do if they decided to "stop obsessing about protein"? Any good nutritionist would tell you what happens to most in this situation, their performance would decline.

[@Dowlphin]

And that's often not even true, but pure marketing BS, with only minute differences to 'regular' foods. But the amino acids coverage point is important, because it means you might actually need more protein where you cannot balance the amino acid types properly with diverse sources. It is sad, though, to see the guy make mistakes against his own preaching, like glorifying fiber, demonizing saturated fats and neglecting potential harmful substances in plant protein products while only mentioning them in regards to meat.

[@godnyx117]

Yeah, it's marketing. It seems so weird and fascinating to me that people don't understand that everything resolves around money and marketing. Next thing you gonna tell me is that you guys believe that doctors truly care about your health and not about making money...

[@samburrell3288]

yeh it's garbage honestly. this is a very anti-meat channel, they are so mainstream. i'm not a fan, very biased and simply wrong. Luckily there's a lot of other good sources here on youtube. Of course protein is incredibly important, animal protein is the most superior and bio-available and saturated fat from animals is not bad for you, in fact it's very good for you@@Dowlphin

[@Dowlphin]

@@samburrell3288 Oh, does KZbin do the thing with the user name at the end to you, too? Started a couple days ago. So annoying. What browser do you use? I could imagine they're doing this stuff on purpose.

[@KeepWalkingNeverStop]

Length could have been cut in half and the podcast double as interesting if the interviewer didn't speak more than the guest and regurgitate his every point. Other than that, it was an informative episode. Thank you both for the time you put into it.

[@alanlaw7017]

Really great and interesting podcast! Do you have one which goes into triggering fat use as a main consumption for energy?

[@ROFLPirate_x]

I personally aim for a higher protein diet because generally it helps me feel more satisfied and fuller for longer, making it harder to overeat. There is also the thermic effect of protein, as your body has to put work in to break it down into carbs allowing me to have slower release of energy throughout the day, rather than spiking my blood suger from eating more carbs and getting into hunger cycles. Obviously everyone is different, its about finding what works for you to make sure you don't overeat. Fibre and protein work for me. If i make most of my diet carbs/fats, its very easy for me to eat way too much.

[@seitanbeatsyourmeat666]

Fiber fills you up, so try not eating processed carbs foods and instead eating natural foods containing fiber… if you claim this doesn’t work (it does and it stabilizes BG) that only tells me you’ve never tried it 😂 Carnivores make all these excuses that don’t hold up under even the slightest scrutiny

[@ROFLPirate_x]

@@seitanbeatsyourmeat666 if you read the rest of my comment you would have seen my reference to eating fibre. Most of my diet is made up of leafy greens, nuts/legumes, meat and cheese. Keeps me ful even at 1200kcal days with an IF regiment. You are arguing with thin air right now..

[@ln5747]

​@@seitanbeatsyourmeat666 What doesn't hold up reference carnivore diet?

[@OdinsSage]

If your diet is high in fibre, how are you getting that if you're eating low carbs? Fibre isn't found in animal products.

[@ROFLPirate_x]

@@OdinsSage by eating vegetables and staying away from starchy carbs and sugar?

[@sooparticular]

GREAT STUFF! as a health coach and personal trainer here in nyc for 25 years I always joked Protein BROTEEN! THE SCAM OF THE CENTURY! everyone is always getting way too much...A coach told me you probably need 1 gram per Lean body weight in KGS!!!! not pounds !Very glad to hear from Christopher...I agree wholeheartedly...Btw Im 205 lbs and I rarely feel I need more then 100 grams per day...and I feel great and have plenty of muscle:)

[@anthonysei]

I thinknits not possible to say ppl need x grams. It totally depends on the circumstances. All these attempts to downplay the protien metabolism and skeletal muscle health seems contrarian for its own sake. I bet he wrote a book.

[@anthonysei]

However, like energy drinks, many ppl consume them for reasons not grounded in science.

[@OliveaVogue]

Excellent video/podcast, thank you. So excess protein consumed in the body is typically metabolized and excreted : 1. Metabolism: When you consume more protein than your body needs for its various functions (e.g., muscle repair, enzyme production), the excess amino acids, which are the building blocks of protein, are broken down in the liver. 2. Conversion to Energy:The carbon skeleton of amino acids can be converted into glucose through a process called gluconeogenesis. This glucose can be used for energy. 3. Storage as Fat: In some cases, if your calorie intake from all sources (protein, carbohydrates, and fats) exceeds your energy expenditure, the excess calories from protein can be stored as body fat. 4. Excretion: The waste products of protein metabolism, such as urea and ammonia, are filtered by the kidneys and excreted in urine. This places an additional load on the kidneys, which is why individuals with kidney issues are often advised to limit protein intake. An example: recommended daily protein intake for a 65kg (approximately 143-pound) female, can vary depending on factors like activity level, age, and overall health. A common guideline is to aim for about 0.7 to 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day. Minimum protein intake (0.8 g/kg): 52 grams of protein per day. - Maximum protein intake (1.2 g/kg): 78 grams of protein per day.

[@oliverleslie7382]

Professor Gardner is a nice guy, a smart guy - but once again, the sad reality is that what he knows, how he learned, was trained etc. is outdated data. Science is not static but it seems that with nutrition science - it very much is static. What we know today, 2023, November 28th at the time of this comment, is that we can't use dietary, supplementary, exogenous proteins and amino acids. @resurgem Which means, the statement "if we don't get proteins or AAs, we die" is incorrect. We humans, just like all the other 9 million species on earth, are genetically predisposed to make all the nutrients we need. Yes, the body can convert atmospheric Nitrogen, N2, into the user friendly N3 - so the nitrogen Balance standard for testing is moot null and void - another bit of old science understandings that were more assumptions than actual fact. Labs are now showing humans can in fact synthesize the so called essential amino acids like Leucine, Lysine, Threonine etc. Vegans are not lacking any nutrient in their diets. Those who fast for 20, 30, 40, 50 day water fasts are also not lacking any amino acids, or proteins etc. - and are not dying. The idea that we break down dietary proteins into the amino acids and then the body re employs them to make X - is false, it was stuff of yesteryear, an era where we had no way to really show this, no way to really prove this - and the number one reason for why we could not prove this, 50 years ago, or in the 1940s, the time the 'essential' narrative was born, was because we simply did not have the technology. And guess what, today, 2023, we Still don't have the tech to show exogenous proteins get cleaved, broke down to AAs and then those AAs go somewhere and get rebuilt into new proteins. In a lab, petri dish dynamics, we have some ideas about proteins and amino acids, but not at all in living cells that exist en vivo in real time, in living organisms. Even tagging and tracking proteins and AAs is poor science lacking in true tech to observe what happens when food is digested. The idea of dietary proteins is not how the body works. Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly. Oliver

[@ningunoag]

@@oliverleslie7382 where is your source for this claim?

[@oliverleslie7382]

I said a few things - which "claim" would you like a source for?@@ningunoag

[@ningunoag]

@@oliverleslie7382 i want u to give me studies papers statements etc that clearly show the results what u wrote. Plain simple what i am asking for

[@oliverleslie7382]

@ningunoag and why don't any of you ever ask for proof of claims with these folks in the video? Ask them for actual visual proof of anything they tell you - and they will clam up, like a clam. It's all assumption. Petri dish dynamics, degrees of plausibility extrapolated into facts - all without a grain of actual visual proof. They can't even provide you a picture of a real amino acid - but instead always serve up CGI imagery - like so many black holes...

[@joquerol]

I think this is a very first world centric view. As a lean man from a third world country, I can tell you I never used to get enough protein by "just eating". Most people's diets here revolve around bread, rice, pasta, cookies, chips, and soda. We only ever eat any type of meat during lunch, and that's not every day, and it's a very low quality source like processed meats or fatty ground beef. It might be hard to imagine for some, but there are places where having eggs and ham in the morning, or having a bit of any high quality protein source for lunch or dinner is a bit of a luxury. And sure, we have a lot of people who overeat enough of everything to get a lot of protein in their diets, but as soon as you restrict your calories you risk being very low on protein and on many important vitamins, minerals, etc. When I started working out and tracking calories and macros, I had to put a lot of effort into making sure I hit the 0.8-1.6 grams/kilo they talk about. So all in all, there definitely are good reasons to supplement protein or to pay attention to how much protein you're getting. Especially when you're trying to lose weight and don't have constant affordable access to high quality protein sources.

[@temporaryname8905]

I live in the USA and am in your exact situation. Chicken? Too expensive. Beef? Even more expensive. Fish? Even MORE even more expensive.

[@graememudie7921]

Never heard so much tosh in my life. have been doing Keto for 2 years and started carnivore on March 17th 2023. I am feeling absolutely amazing. Joint pains are gone, and I no longer need to go to the chiropractor. Indigestion is gone as well. I started doing press-ups, and in the first week, I did 35 per day, which was 5 more than I usually do. I have steadily increased the number every day and did 70 a few days ago! I can't believe it! What I added was boron, which was suggested by one of the many doctors I follow on KZbin. That took it to another level. I am 67 years young and will never eat vegetables again. No carbs, absolutely no carbs. I have not put sugar in my coffee or tea for at least 40 years. Another effect of this diet is that the plaque on my teeth has completely gone. After about a week, I could feel it coming off, a very strange sensation. Additionally, I no longer have bleeding gums. I only take thyroxine for my underactive thyroid. I hope to get off of it over the next year on this diet.

[@OdinsSage]

Every person I know on keto is also on appetite suppressers. Are you on appetite suppressers? Also keto/carnivore has basically no fibre and is entirely lacking in a number of necessary vitamins and minerals. How are you making up for that on a carnivore diet?

[@trucid2]

Odins, I've never heard of people who are on keto taking appetite suppressants. High fat high protein low carb diets are very satieting, which is why they are so effective. As for lacking nutrients, you can still eat salads and greens.

[@j24601valjean]

Professor Gardner is packed full of informational nutrition... a veritable legume of academia.

[@OdinsSage]

XD

[@Muuip]

Excellent presentation! Thank you, much appreciated! 👍👍

[@egray139]

I have also read that the body does store excess amino acids in the intestines if you eat more protein than you need. I wish this guy would comment on more opposing studies to paint a better picture of existing research.

[@uploadsnstuff8902]

It's called the "free amino-acid pool" and it is used in the protein turnover, which is basic biology. Gardner is spreading misinformation for some unknown reason, which is saddening coming from a scientist.

[@gyurbanvikrenc8267]

This might look valid on paper and in lab experiments, but certainly is not in real life. I lift since I was 14 and for the first 20 years (so until I was 34) I did not take any supplements, just real food. I had a protein rich diet though and I surely had a good appetite. Never got heavier than 80-82 kg. At 34 I started taking 1-3 cups/day of whey and casein protein over my regular diet because I calculated how much protein I ate and most of the time it did not reach the recommended 160g based on my goal weight. And then boom, I got up to 90kg in a year and in top of that I got a bit leaner. No wonder that guys over 100-120kg eat over 200-220g a day. You gotta maintain that mass somehow and I think a lot of the protein you eat is actually burned for energy. If the zoot suit guys were twigboys who burned all the protein they ate this nitrogen in and out balance gives such a huge bias on recommended protein intake like the distance from here to the Moon. That experiment doesn't tell anything about what happens with the protein after they ingested it and I think its a huge mistake. Ronnie Coleman ate nearly 3 kg of chicken breasts a day and he was 'only' 135kg. He surely knew from his own experience very well how much protein he exactly needed to eat, because his body fat was below 1%. You can't do that if you overeat by a gram.

[@R.R.Brahma]

It is his experience but not science. So we can't follow him.

[@gyurbanvikrenc8267]

@@R.R.Brahma LOL you say this as if science produced nothing but undeniable facts and the experience of 80 years of bodybuilding was nothing (not to mention that bodybuilding has a lot of scientific background back up by studies and evidence as well). But you can trust whatever you want of course, it's your life.

[@recumbentrocks2929]

To be fair you are looking at this from a super fit body builders perspective. Most of us are just normal people who just want to be healthy and not over weight.

[@gyurbanvikrenc8267]

@@recumbentrocks2929 Not necessarily a bodybuilders perspective, I used that as an example of one of the extremes (and the twigboy as the other extreme end of the spectrum). I'm just pointing out the flaws in this simplistic thinking, which suggests that people don't need to change their diet (and their lifestyle) to eat 'enough' protein, while generally people (especially in the US) eat too much carbs, too little protein, and from the latter not enough variety.

[@paulb8251]

Ronnie Coleman wasn’t below 1% BF lol..

[@carldseekingpeace]

I’m thankful I stumbled on this video; my thanks go out to ZOE and Professor Christopher Gardner. I took the time to read most of the comments and smiled as so many took issue with what the professor stated. It seems that people love whatever they already believe. All I know is when my daughter was studying for her degree in Food Science and Nutrition she encouraged me to try going vegan. She also convinced me that rice & beans basically replace steak. I was vegan for a few years but since have added some eggs cooked in butter when I want them and some cheese occasionally. I’ve had one meal of beef in the past 5 years. I think equally significant is that I began walking and worked my way up to up to 5 miles every other day. Now, about 5 years later I weigh 43.5 kilos less than I did. Now I’m 70, 180 cm tall and weigh 83 kilos. I eat about 90 - 110 grams of protein per day. I feel strong. My biggest take away is to no longer buy protein bars and just stop worrying about protein.

[@ash9259]

Glad to hear my friend! I do love rice and beans and it has essentially replaced meat. I combine rice and oats together as well since it creates a lovely thick sauce for my food. I weight 75 and have a very low body fat percentage at 171cms and good blood panels. I probably eat around 40 - 60 grams a day, train twice a week. In the past 4 months i've built roughly 1-2kg of muscle.

[@kedabro1957]

​@@ash9259 You weigh 75 ?

[@ash9259]

@@kedabro1957 yep, currently.

[@jd01665]

@@kedabro1957 The units are kg, in case that is what surprised you.

[@TomVFormOfficial]

Wow! Good on you. Congratulations. All the best to you. 🙌🔥👍💪

[@kimpulido9721]

This is the absolute best explanation of the basic biochemistry of macronutrients contained in the food we consume that I have ever seen!!!!This man is brilliant! Thank you for such simplified terms and analogies so this ridiculous debate and protein myth/ concern can finally come to an end… you nailed it🙏👊👌

[@BoidsOfDoom]

You'd possibly enjoy the Peter Attia interview on YT with Don Lyman, a research scientist whose been studying dietary protein at U of Illinois for 40 years. His views about the current RDA are notably different than Gardner. Gardner, arguably, oversimplifies his statement to make clear and punchy points - which we can all appreciate - but ignores many other factors seemingly to poke fun at gym bros and higher protein diets. More protein - relative to a stable caloric intake - would do the average American very good.

[@paulharmsen3187]

When someone can explain a complex subject almost childishly simple, that is when you know he/she understands the matter.

[@MineTitanDragon]

It's really not and it's blatently obvious that he either hasn't kept up with the research or is so biased (in favour of a pure plant based diet) that he willingly chooses to ignore alot of studies.

[@mts7274]

@@paulharmsen3187 This 50 minutes covering macro nutrients and biochemistry was anything but "almost childishly simple". There is still too much left open to interpretation, and that is why people still struggle with weight loss, or finding that 'zone' of optimal health.

[@mts7274]

@@MineTitanDragon Omnivores have thrived on mostly plant-based [with some animal proteins] diets for millions of years. Think of some of the most powerful mammals on the planet, and look at their food sources. Apes/gorillas are a perfect example, but bears, raccoons, etc...

[@OrwellionFeverDreamCouchPotato]

Great video thank you. I hear so many RD's, MD's, PHD's, MD PHD's and institutions suggesting widely contrasting amounts of protein.. One example is the American College of Sports Medicine recommends that endurance athletes consume at least 1.2-2.0 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day. I think Dr. Attia recommends up to 2 grams per pound of bodyweight. I'm just confused especially when it comes to the older male competitive endurance athlete. Not Enough, To Much, Don't worry about it ;-) LOL I do like the don't worry about it so much and just make sure to eat high quality foods.

[@Beerus7]

Wonderfully explained! Here's what bugs me. If an average male eats 3000 kcal and wants to optimize protein intake, he shouldn't have more than 100g of protein, right? We have 2600 kcal left for carbs and fats. If he chooses a high carb diet and has 75g of fat daily, that means he consumes 481g of carbs. On the other hand, if carbs are moderate, let's say 200g/day, that means he has 200g od fat daily. We often hear about excess carbs, fats, saturated fat etc and it sounds like it would be really hard to avoid in this scenario. Am I missing something?

[@colinwillis1373]

Yep I kind of came to the same conclusion. Also the whole demonstration is based on the average person in the US eating too much (of everything) but I'm not sure how it holds for someone who wants to be at a calorie equilibrium or even calorie deficit. In those cases it seems difficult to not care about protein.

[@jwoolman5]

If he needs 3000 calories, he is using carbohydrates for energy faster than most. They don’t have time to be converted into stored fat. His protein needs haven’t really changed that much. If he thinks he has to boost his protein outrageously, that protein will not be used for the usual protein tasks of repairing and building muscle and transporting other substances etc. It will be washed out with the urine or converted to stored fat or to carbohydrate if really needed for energy. It cannot be stored for a rainy day like fat and carbohydrates. Protein has certain structural and other useful functions that don’t increase the way carb needs can for a very active person. We usually store about a day’s worth of carbohydrate in an appropriate sugar form in our muscle cells for quick energy, but if someone is using up the carbs much faster - there will simply be more rapid turnover in those cells over the course of the day. So what looks like too much carbs may well not be too much for that person. What this means in practice is that if you are unusually active, focus on bumping up your carbohydrates, not your protein. You will still get more protein because high carb foods usually also have some protein, but anything beyond your needs will be wasted. Your body needs the energy in the carbs instead.

[@suzannas.3716]

I would be interested in a discussion about the interplay between animal protein and blood sugar control. I pay attention to protein in my meals not because I worry that I lack protein but because my sense of satiety is better with a meal that has animal protein in it and I don't get the blood sugar crashes that I used to when eating a primarily vegetarian diet. I would prefer to not eat meat but my quality of life is better when I do. 🤷‍♀️ Could you explore this aspect of protein consumption, too, please?

[@malibuman6160]

Not sure why he said that increasing protein doesn’t lead to weight loss. A good study showed that increasing from 20% to 30% protein, they lost 11 lbs in 12 weeks. Protein is the most satiating macro. Also it helps regulate blood sugar. The fact that you feel better and your blood sugar is better when you do something (in this case eating animal protein) - I would do that rather than follow someone’s theory. You can watch other videos that will convince you of other factors. Bottom line is watch YOUR health and metrics and let that guide you rather than follow a belief or theory blindly.

[@willpeachable]

I feel they neglected to mention (or pay much attention to) the satiety standpoint of protein consumption. What you've hit on here was also what I was hoping they'd discuss further!

[@BlissBlessHappiness]

You were on a terrible plant based diet, by every objective scientific measure... A wholefood plant dominant diet would lead to optimal blood sugar levels, as documented by many studies and the longest-living communities on the planet...

[@smilebot484]

check out simon hill. animal products are bad for blood sugar control. dr bernard has a book on this i believe

[@themotivator2587]

If you want to eat meat, that's your prerogotive, and you shoudn't feel guilty. That said, I've been doing WFPB for a little over a year, and it took me months to overcome meat cravings. I still rarely get them, but they aren't frequent like they were early on. And when I do get them, I've realized that they generally come down primarily to a craving for the flavor and texture, though perhaps on occasion it might have been a desire for B12 if I'd been forgetting to take my supplement. And yes, sometimes it might even just be that sense of fullness that comes from eating a protein-dense meal. I don't eat tofu a lot -- at most 2 or 3 blocks a week. But I may go several weeks without any. In any case, tofu that has been pressed to remove excess moisture then marinated and air-fried then added to a meal with rice or noodles plus some greens generally hits the spot for me to satisfy those texture and/or density cravings. On occasions over the past year, I have eaten meat, and I often found that I was actually disappointed with what I ate because it didn't actually satisfy my craving as I thought it would. My recollection of how delicious fast food burgers are was better than reality. Something chickpea-based like falafel often satisfies meat cravings, too. So definitely eat legumes often. Their higher protein content will help provide that sense of satisfaction -- especially if you're weaning off of a high-meat diet. And experiment with how you prepare your food. Don't underestimate the effect that textures, smells, flavors, and overall presentation affect how satisfied you feel after eating. I still eat fish occasionally, but that's mainly for the EPA and DHA. Even fish usually doesn't satisfy a meat craving because the texture is generally too light to give me that satisfaction. Foods that have a firm or crunchy texture and require more thorough chewing are more satisfying. You may be surprised at just how much more satisfying a meal of rice and veggies or noodles and veggies can be simply by sprinkling a handful of peanuts or cashews on top to add something crunchy. That's my experience. The texture of the food makes a huge difference in satisfaction. And frankly some of it may even be the fat content. Soy is higher in fat than other legumes, and obviously nuts are high in fat. Some people may just need to add more fat to their meals with nuts or avocados in order to feel satisfied on a plant-based diet.

[@GeneralAxed]

I'm glad you tube recommended me this video tonight. I had spent the last three days researching high protein foods and recipes. And preparing a shopping list of items I don't usually buy. Because all the weight loss videos I watched over the last week recommended that I triple the amount of protein this video recommends. So thanks for saving me a pile of money that I was going to spend tomorrow. Guess I'll just go back to water fasting and exercising more to lose weight.

[@QuanticLifeScience]

Great podcats, and a humble guest who has a very balanced perspective on health. and nutrition.

[@markrhodes4891]

After watching this video I watched a video with Don Layman. He was also introduced as the expert in all things protein. It's amazing how contradictory his views are in relationship to this video. How can that be?

[@albelanger6126]

Excellent article. I really like the way Christopher explains it. One thing that I am missing: .8 grams per 1 kg of body weight & that most people should be eating around 40 grams. This mean that most people weight about 50kg (110 lb). What am I missing? Could it .8g per kg of lean body mass?

[@rblongfellow]

Yes lean body weight

[@gabriellakadar]

@@shariatiehsan On this KZbin channel, plant based diet is promoted. Prof. Gardner follows a plant based diet.

[@magnesiafrost1863]

Most people weigh way more than 50kg. I'm 164cm 50kg is a BMI of 18,6, which is almost underweight (18,5). Taking 0,8g/kg into account I need 44g/day of protein. With my current diet it is hard for me to reach 44g/day.

[@robertsinke9211]

Not the only omission. He sort of steps over the fact that men older than 60 definitely need more protein. And not because they are toothless and lonely. Furthermore, we are not all Americans and do not consume 3.000 Kcal.

[@timurhant469]

@@shariatiehsan Fat tissue is the most passive tissue with the lowest metabolic rate. So lean body mass is what is needed to calculate protein and energy needs.

[@konradponiewierski7907]

Awesome information. Something I can work with. I only need a few minor tweaks to what I am currently doing. Thank you.

[@golgipogo]

Both interviewer and guest are amusing and informative. I urge the nutrition expert to get on Peter Attia’s The Drive. 44:18 love to see a debate on protein needs. Peter is extreme but also smart.

[@alexmirza5210]

Your bodyweight, muscle mass, age and physical activity must have influences on your personal daily amount. As well as genes, enzyme levels and gut health. A comprehensive coverage, well worth the time.

[@nikola.despotovic]

This is the best interview on protein I've ever seen. I read this book "Understanding Nutrition" when I was about 18 years old (I'm 34 now), and it suggested that protein RDA for healthy adult is about 0.8 grams per kilogram of bodyweight. So I dropped every protein supplement, since I was eating more than twice the recommended amount through regular food alone, and I actually felt and performed better. Also, heartburn and bloating went away in very short time frame. So basically, for years, I've been explaining to people why the vast majority of them don't need to spend money and effort on supplementing protein, and many think I don't know what I'm talking about. I believe the main problem is that regular people generally blindly listen to influential people in fitness industry and very few actually question their advice and pick up a textbook or two. Keep up the good work.

[@margottfon330]

Yes, that's what many ppl do. They just follow ppl in fitness industry and/ or textbooks, but those textbooks are also written by ppl, and lots of 'ppl just blindly follow' ppl's advises in those textbooks.

[@nikola.despotovic]

@@margottfon330 I would argue that in general people who read books that are studied at schools and universities are less likely to blindly follow anything, because they are trying to learn. On the other hand, people without any base knowledge, who are just following certain influencers, are less likely to question anything, again in general. Also, influencers tend to jump on trends that bring them views, so keep that in mind too. Just my opinion.

[@jwinchester1320]

At my level of activity 2.2g/kg bodyweight is truly what I need. It is Not the same for everyone. If you don't do shit all day, then yes, eat less protein. If you are highly active you sure as shit need A LOT more. It's irritating when these people come out with these one size fits all discussions. He never added in that people who are active need more.

[@margottfon330]

@@nikola.despotovic books don't make you smarter, it's you who makes smart/not smart conclusions as a result of reading them. Just keep that in mind. .....prof. Political Science..

[@bardsamok9221]

@@margottfon330 Good point. In a sea of data it takes work on personal wisdom and critical thought to better understand which books to read, and studies to assess. Regarding KZbinrs.. There are a few individuals on KZbin with excellent acumen in this regard whilst holding high personal integrity with no political or biased agenda, but sadly they are not on this video.

[@sgill4833]

I had severe back pain which didn't get somewhat better until I started taking collagen.

[@J-rex980]

I have eaten nothing but meat and egg for 4 yrs. 53 my Drs freak out at how healthy I am.

[@FINANCEPORT777]

This podcast is the definition of “riddled with misinformation”

[@tomedwards1879]

Being over 50 years of age and have been eating just meat and eggs for the last 4 years, I would recommend you get an angiogram of your coronary arteries done. Atherosclerosis occurs without symptoms and can kill you without warning.