Everything You Thought You Knew About Protein Is Wrong | Stanford's Professor Christopher Gardner

[@stevelanghorn1407]

I’m sure it’s more very well-intended dietary information. The trouble is the masses are bombarded with such totally opposing advice and information from equally eloquent, articulate, convincing, apparently highly intelligent individuals. It’s so utterly confusing.

[@trotskyite1]

Just see who's selling a book and a line of supplements and disregard

[@stevelanghorn1407]

@@trotskyite1 Good advice! Thanks

[@joinZOE]

Hi Steve and thanks for your comment. The world of nutrition can be tricky to navigate, particularly when scientists have different opinions on the same topic! We always reference the evidence discussed in our show notes, so that you can trace everything back to its source. Hope this is helpful, let me know if you think there's anything else we can do to help 🙏

[@stevelanghorn1407]

@@joinZOE Many thanks for taking time to reply. I’ve always trusted the advice here on your channel. My comment was because of the broader issue. To take my one tiny example…STATINS…Good or Bad? HIGH CHOLESTEROL…OK…or not? SATURATED FATS…Good or Bad? ANIMAL versus VEGETARIAN / VEGAN for heart health? The list goes on…and so many opposing KZbin “big brains” seem convinced they know and have “The Panacea”…and are (sometimes) blatantly cashing-in on the vulnerabilities of many & on our confused search for guidance.

[@La_sagne]

check if they have a degree that actually relates to what theyre talking about... be very sceptical when they have no degree or when theyre chiropractors talking about nutrition

[@lam7750]

After all the wonderful talks and explanations given by your guest speaker and by zillion other scientists and nutritionists out there, I decided to just NOT STRESS about these matters. Just eat healthy and a variety of foods to the extent possible and within my means, and forget the rest.

[@oliverleslie7382]

ifbacongrewontrees.wordpress.com/2023/09/14/how-do-you-get-your-proteins/

[@noli.me.tangere]

Yes, correct. Your diet only has to be as natural and diverse as possible. All the scientists and nutritionists give you mumbo jumbo buzz words like "protein" and "saturated fat" and "calories" to confuse and frustrate you until you give up and go back to eating processed food.

[@rmoore1969]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🤖 Introduction to Protein 03:03 🧬 Protein's Role and Complexity 07:34 🍽️ Protein Requirements: EAR and RDA 17:12 🏋️‍♂️ Controversy over Protein Intake 22:05 🥖 Carbohydrates vs. Fat Storage 23:50 🍗 Protein Storage in the Body 25:08 🍖 Protein and Kidney Health 26:36 🏋️ Protein Requirements for Athletes 28:51 🧒 Protein Needs at Different Ages - Children 30:10 🧓 Protein Needs at Different Ages - Elderly 35:14 🌱 Plant-Based Protein vs. Animal Protein 39:21 🍲 Healthiest and Tastiest Protein Sources 42:31 🍔 Protein and Diet 43:00 🥩 Plant-Based Protein 44:50 🍫 Protein Bars vs. Chocolate Bars Made with HARPA AI

[@resurgem]

Thank you, this is helpful.

[@jhor729]

doing the good work

[@Muuip]

Thank you!!👍

[@mubizz80]

If the body cannot differentiate proteins from plants or animals and sugars from natural fruits and industrial sugars, then it's true, all the so-called educated elites are nothing but a bunch of crooks and liars. We should focus back on our foreparents' ways of natural feeding.

[@rahulbhati439]

Thanks so much!

[@rachaelrb]

What a stress reliever! I just lost a kidney and I have been worried about fitness and kidney health. Thank you, thank you!

[@tomdorsey1928]

Glossing over protein bio-availability seems like a huge gap in this discussion. If I use a protein source in my diet that is not digestible that means I would need to eat more of it to get the same level in the body right?

[@elvnprince]

Yes, bioavailability is so important!!! People are so used to not feeling great that they think it doesn't matter.

[@gymratnoah2259]

Do you think taking BCAA supplements would help if you don't have a balanced whole food plant based diet?

[@aquaram1111]

Yes, and there’s a Protein Bioavailability Scale for a reason. Also physical activity matters.

How do you know that it's very important? What studies do you have to back that up?

[@BWater-yq3jx]

Plant sources tend to miss or be low on some essential amino acids. Meat has the proportions you need.

[@VesS0ul]

Whoever hosts a discussion between Christopher Gardner and Peter Attia will become a legend!

[@ritasicari7518]

He said it all comes down to calories, yet other "experts" on this podcast have said calories are meaningless. No wonder people have eating disorders.

[@VladimirKirichenko-yd6og]

Lol exactly.

[@VladimirKirichenko-yd6og]

It also highly depends on what you’re doing. If getting jacked then ofc need tone of protein lmao. No mention here

[@mroqido9987]

@@VladimirKirichenko-yd6og no mention here? Did you have your device muted, my friend?

[@Sam-bn7jk]

this guy is a clown, not aware even of the concept of "randomized clinical trial". Just the fact that he totally ignores the hormones role and thinks about calories only like an early 20th century scientist says it all.

[@paulgoogol2652]

There's a lot debate on calories as how much energy a body can extract from them is individual depending on their microbiome and the body in general. Genetics, fitness, activity etc. A person doing physical work or workout will benefit far more from carbohydrates than office workers. Diet is a very complex issue with a lot of incertainty involved so I would trust less a person who is overly confident in what he says contradicting lots of peers.

[@dperl5640]

Just came across this channel for this topic. I have to say this host has an incredible ability to take something the professor says and makes it so easy to understand. His analogies are brilliant! I mean him taking the topic of aminos and how they break down and are utilized and says "basically it is like eating Shakespear and a comic book and by the time the body uses it it is simply letters so it has no idea where those letters came from". Amazing ability. I will definitely be checking this channel out more often

[@anonymousl5150]

Both men in the video are very uneducated. They claim animal protein is bad because of saturated fats, which is just 50 year old outdated information. Worse they recommend bean for protein intake when beans are some of the most dangerous lectin infested garbage to hinder your nutritional gaions.

[@samiryan214]

I think the host is an autistic that's why he's excel in what he's doing lol

[@oliverleslie7382]

Professor Gardner is a nice guy, a smart guy - but once again, the sad reality is that what he knows, how he learned, was trained etc. is outdated data. Science is not static but it seems that with nutrition science - it very much is static. What we know today, 2023, November 28th at the time of this comment, is that we can't use dietary, supplementary, exogenous proteins and amino acids. @resurgem Which means, the statement "if we don't get proteins or AAs, we die" is incorrect. We humans, just like all the other 9 million species on earth, are genetically predisposed to make all the nutrients we need. Yes, the body can convert atmospheric Nitrogen, N2, into the user friendly N3 - so the nitrogen Balance standard for testing is moot null and void - another bit of old science understandings that were more assumptions than actual fact. Labs are now showing humans can in fact synthesize the so called essential amino acids like Leucine, Lysine, Threonine etc. Vegans are not lacking any nutrient in their diets. Those who fast for 20, 30, 40, 50 day water fasts are also not lacking any amino acids, or proteins etc. - and are not dying. The idea that we break down dietary proteins into the amino acids and then the body re employs them to make X - is false, it was stuff of yesteryear, an era where we had no way to really show this, no way to really prove this - and the number one reason for why we could not prove this, 50 years ago, or in the 1940s, the time the 'essential' narrative was born, was because we simply did not have the technology. And guess what, today, 2023, we Still don't have the tech to show exogenous proteins get cleaved, broke down to AAs and then those AAs go somewhere and get rebuilt into new proteins. In a lab, petri dish dynamics, we have some ideas about proteins and amino acids, but not at all in living cells that exist en vivo in real time, in living organisms. Even tagging and tracking proteins and AAs is poor science lacking in true tech to observe what happens when food is digested. The idea of dietary proteins is not how the body works. Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly. Oliver

[@samiryan214]

@@oliverleslie7382 You're fabulous, I need to read more about: "Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly."

[@oliverleslie7382]

ifbacongrewontrees.wordpress.com/2023/09/14/how-do-you-get-your-proteins/

[@lmmortalZodd]

You didn't post a link to the 60's studies where they measured nitrogen to figure out the neccessary ammount of amino acids. Did those people exercize during this study? What was the muscle to fat ratio of the paricipants? How long were the studies done for? What impact did the different diets have on other metrics, like blood sugar?

[@koraXro]

It's like asking: Is it true that you were born on your birthday? 😅 The way questions are structured you can reach whatever conclusion you want. After watching and reading and listening to so many opinions and specialist the conclusion is always the same: 1. Don't overeat, 2. Eat all groups of foods 3. Don't eat processed foods and sugars 4 . Hydrate 5. (the most important) do things that make you happy, stress is the silent killer

[@sanbiki1453]

Yep, I got to same conclusion yesterday. After so many contradictory evidences on diets, I got overwhelmed and messed up my brain. I thought how on earth can all of them show science that this and this diet cures cancer ( currently treating my husband’s tumor). I cried out of despair, because I got so confused. And finally, got to the same conclusion as you mentioned here, so true, so true!

[@pavloshtefanesku5109]

... unless stress makes you happy ;) Exercises, cold shower and even alarm clock - are good stressors if used properly :)

[@robinhood4640]

They all think that they are thinking out of the box, when in reality they just climbed out of the big box into a little box. Now they shout from the little box that their diet is absolutely amazing and everyone else is lying when they show that their diet works. Whenever a specific diet doesn't work, the next step is to filter the water you drink and the air you breathe and when things start getting better it's because of the amazing diet. The same amazing diet you followed for two years without seeing any benefits.

[@godnyx117]

@@sanbiki1453 Carbohydrates are sugar with extra steps. Sugar (sucrose) is Disaccharide (link of two Monosaccharides) of the Monosaccharides Glucose and Fructose. Carbohydrates are complex connections from 11 up to thousands of them. But in the end, the break down to glucose, fructose and galactose. You can find more on Wikipedia and you can see KZbin videos that analyze it better. Good luck to your husband, hope everything goes well!

[@godnyx117]

@@pavloshtefanesku5109 Nope! You may get used to it but it never makes you "happy". I do know a guy who has said that he likes the "productive stress" and he takes antidepressants (which despite my own depression and even suicidal thoughts, I never taken) and when he tried to cut them (or lower them a lot, I don't remember exactly), it effected him negatively. Your hidden stress will always manifest in your life somehow! This may be the chronic feeling that things are never enough and that you are truly never happy, it might be aggression, it might be fair, it might be physical and physiological health problems, it can be anything. Stress is the biggest killer in life!

[@nikola.despotovic]

This is the best interview on protein I've ever seen. I read this book "Understanding Nutrition" when I was about 18 years old (I'm 34 now), and it suggested that protein RDA for healthy adult is about 0.8 grams per kilogram of bodyweight. So I dropped every protein supplement, since I was eating more than twice the recommended amount through regular food alone, and I actually felt and performed better. Also, heartburn and bloating went away in very short time frame. So basically, for years, I've been explaining to people why the vast majority of them don't need to spend money and effort on supplementing protein, and many think I don't know what I'm talking about. I believe the main problem is that regular people generally blindly listen to influential people in fitness industry and very few actually question their advice and pick up a textbook or two. Keep up the good work.

[@margottfon330]

Yes, that's what many ppl do. They just follow ppl in fitness industry and/ or textbooks, but those textbooks are also written by ppl, and lots of 'ppl just blindly follow' ppl's advises in those textbooks.

[@nikola.despotovic]

@@margottfon330 I would argue that in general people who read books that are studied at schools and universities are less likely to blindly follow anything, because they are trying to learn. On the other hand, people without any base knowledge, who are just following certain influencers, are less likely to question anything, again in general. Also, influencers tend to jump on trends that bring them views, so keep that in mind too. Just my opinion.

[@jwinchester1320]

At my level of activity 2.2g/kg bodyweight is truly what I need. It is Not the same for everyone. If you don't do shit all day, then yes, eat less protein. If you are highly active you sure as shit need A LOT more. It's irritating when these people come out with these one size fits all discussions. He never added in that people who are active need more.

[@margottfon330]

@@nikola.despotovic books don't make you smarter, it's you who makes smart/not smart conclusions as a result of reading them. Just keep that in mind. .....prof. Political Science..

[@bardsamok9221]

@@margottfon330 Good point. In a sea of data it takes work on personal wisdom and critical thought to better understand which books to read, and studies to assess. Regarding KZbinrs.. There are a few individuals on KZbin with excellent acumen in this regard whilst holding high personal integrity with no political or biased agenda, but sadly they are not on this video.

[@Taxi4B]

Interested to hear his thoughts on protein requirements for bodybuilding, as there are numerous studies showing optimum intake exceeding 1.8g/kg (0.8g/lb). However, here he suggests much lower is all they will ever need. These recommendations don't align. (I'm not referring to protein source just volume)

[@robertseybold3665]

I think he's referring to gen-pop non-lifters who are worried about not getting enough protein for their health. He also says that most people are already eating more than they need and get up to 1.6g/kg..... But if you watch your calories and get most of them from carbs and fats, chances are you're getting enough for general health, but not ideal amounts for muscle building, imo. This channel is bent on disproving everything (while selling their own program) and while the food industry is probably overselling protein for non-lifters, some of the clickbaity claims made here are not always helpful either. As someone stated above, lean protein (as well as lots of fiber) can help with satiety and it's not a bad idea to eat more of that and less pasta and white bread.

[@sapphosplace]

So I'm kind of in the same boat, trying to work out the details without diving into the rabbit hole of actually reading through experimental proceedures. I'll drop in some things that are my understanding, in case it helps someone: Bodybuilding studies get their results simplified into "this number x is best" while the experiment still shows gains for lower volume intake. It's a matter of good gains versus perfect, not of muscle loss vs muscle gain. There are a lot of studies in this kind of topic that involve a small number of participants. It's just kind of the nature of the field that large participant counts are super difficult to do. The .8g per kg number sounds like it assumes no active workload going into hypertrophy. I'm not sure of any number that's been speculated to represent the "volume of protein needed to respond to a hypertrophy". That's the number I'll be looking for next. Ultimately the numbers talking about higher numbers are based on measuring progress, rather than tracing nutrition pathways (such as measuring nitrogen output, like the .8g/kg study). There's both a "this is what happened" kind of truth to that kind of research, but there's also more experimemtal confounds, so it's just not comparable enough to subtract one number from another and begin speculating that this is represents the need when building muscle from hypertrophy. Then there's the whole "timing" issue, and of other nutrients involved (and possibly becoming confounds). There's also questions like "What triggers does our body use to make decisions on a nutrient pathway when hypertrophy happens?" Does the amount of protein in our gut at the moment matter? Our body is trying to maintain homeostasis. I don't think this man's input is meant, to be coming from a bodybuilding perspective (i.e. max growth) but more from a general fitness (some growth) perspective. The research he discussed on his own athletes, for example, tracked performance, not muscle growth. Although the numbers don't align, there's still room for each side to have some truth to it.

[@jwoolman5]

Bodybuilders are in their own category. They are trying to sculpt their bodies in certain unusual ways. They say that they actually are at their weakest when in top form for a competition, because while the muscles may look good to them - they aren’t really as functional as they would otherwise be. So you can’t really look at bodybuilder habits as a guide. We do know that high level athletes can and do thrive on plant-based diets, so if they need more protein - no problem getting it from plants. Which is the point. The body doesn’t care whether an amino acid comes from a bean or a chicken; it just cares that the amino acid is there in the pool when needed to construct our own unique proteins.

[@JJJ-ok7nc]

@@jwoolman595% of top athletes eat meat. Thanks.

[@BWater-yq3jx]

Bodybuilders on steroids are likely going to need an abnormal amount of protein; I think we can safely ignore that as a reference point. Unless you're juiced up.

[@atleyflenner]

My personal experience does not align with this guy's talk. Just working out without adding extra protien for a few months did not build muscle. I had to add extra to see results. Diet is crazy important at least in my experience.

[@benthornhill7903]

There's a big difference between bulking up and healthy functioning and maintenance. Even so, if you're taking protein powders and going overboard on the protein, you'll be pissing a lot of it out.

[@Drewsarchus]

the science of what he’s saying is backed up by peer-reviewed meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. the number one factor in growing muscle while on a resistance/hypertrophy muscle building focused routine is sleep quality and quantity followed by overall calorie surplus. if you hit above the RDA of protein and make sure you are consuming enough calories over maintenance while active, and get enough quality sleep, you will build muscle. you won’t need upwards of 150-200 grams of protein a day for that to happen. anecdotal, but there’s enough examples of vegan bodybuilders to prove this is true. i’d say hit the RDA of protein a day from the sources that make you happy and that you can stick to, consume a decent balance of healthy carbs and fats additionally to hit your daily requirement of calories and focus on good sleep. the average healthy person can do 3, 30 minute minute resistance routines a week if everything else above is on point and gain substantial muscle

[@soonahero]

⁠@@Drewsarchusthis is completely antithetical to every bodybuilders experience, every bodybuilder’s coach experience, and all sports training nutrition science. With your conceptualization, people will plateau in about a few months. This guy was talking about putting on 10 kilos of muscle in a year. A world class natural bodybuilders puts on 15 kilos of muscle in their entire career.

[@tiblends5423]

@@soonahero yes thank you!! gaining that much muscle just doing the same old thing, that is the most idiot thing, i am in no way a body builder but i have worked out for a year almost just to gain like 3 kilos and i was underweight, and no one knows how much of the 3 kilos is actually muscle, this guy is just saying things to make people feel happy

[@SanatoZen]

​@@soonaherothe head of nephrology department where I used to study would tell me how common most his unit would have renal failure cases that were athletes in their 40s that never knew how to consume proteins. So yeah, better listen to my gym coach than the nutrition expert.

[@jwatkins672012]

Surprisingly never mentions mushrooms. I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but mushrooms having complete proteins in a fairly balanced distribution of essential amino acids are another key food in those diets. And cheap, one can take straw and use mushrooms to convert to protein. One 33 lb straw bale can convert to hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of mushrooms. Unlike nuts, mushroom allergies are rare.

[@vinny6016]

Very informative. Being a vegetarian and vegan now all my life, I was told to eat more protein. As a south East Asian, our diet is all sorts of beans, rice and variety of veggies. My question is: Are lectins harmful from the beans and legume as one the prominent doctor suggests, also, are protein requirements different as you grow older? Thanks.

[@d0ubtingThom4s]

Check out Dhru Purohit's interview of Don Laymen for a very different perspective that has an opinion on protein requirements as you age.

[@vinny6016]

@@d0ubtingThom4s Thanks but couldn’t find them in video together. If possible, link please!

[@d0ubtingThom4s]

@@vinny6016 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoTHaJ6PZdeii5o&pp=ygUXZGhydSBwdXJvaGl0IGRvbiBsYXltYW4%3D

[@victoriouse]

I can answer the last question. As you age your ability to absorb and use proteins will fall slightly, what I took from the studies I read on this was that they recommended a slight increase when reaching age 40, maybe earlier but that line wasn't as clear. Then as you age increase to as much as 10-20% more when you get 70 to mitigate the bodies failing ability.

[@vinny6016]

@@victoriouse Thanks.

[@scottperry7311]

This is a great video and has a lot of useful information. But I have learned to listen to my body when it comes to protein intake. I am closing in on 60 years of age, I lift weights (Light to moderate), I run 2k five times a week, I also walk 5+k five times a week, and also do some yard work and other work that is physical. I also only eat during the day, and don't eat for 12 to 16 hours. I have found that I need to take a protein supplement, about 50 grams a day. How do I know I need to eat the extra protein, I noticed that my finger nails don't grow and my muscles ache if I don't go out of my way to eat extra protein. Plant base diets don't work for me competely, I have tried, I need to eat meat a couple of times a week and also take a protein supplement. I learned this after decades of experimentation, and this is what works for me and the way I live.

[@kalilg2242]

Good stuff, nothing beats experience. I am mid 30s and came to the same conclusions the past year or so. 1-2 fat servings of protein a week and that's it and that even may be overdoing it. I eat 90% fruit and avoid most regular/normal foods actually but now my hair that had been balding is slowly growing back.

[@veryflow1156]

Yes but most people are saying eat everyday​@@kalilg2242

[@itsBenChang]

Could also consider collagen. There are several types of collagen to get more specific amino acids for your hair, skin, nails, joints etc.

[@justinklenk]

Likewise - same here, man. That's the real _in-vivo,_ empirical evidence.

[@FuzzyBearYT]

What the professor doesn't discuss at all is the efficiency of different proteins. Beans have a rating of less than half that of meat or eggs. So 50g of lentil protein isn't the same as 50g of beef protein, REGARDLESS of the fact the amino acid distribution might be broadly the same. So in reality, vegetarians struggle to get the required protein, and look thin and older.

[@ROFLPirate_x]

I personally aim for a higher protein diet because generally it helps me feel more satisfied and fuller for longer, making it harder to overeat. There is also the thermic effect of protein, as your body has to put work in to break it down into carbs allowing me to have slower release of energy throughout the day, rather than spiking my blood suger from eating more carbs and getting into hunger cycles. Obviously everyone is different, its about finding what works for you to make sure you don't overeat. Fibre and protein work for me. If i make most of my diet carbs/fats, its very easy for me to eat way too much.

[@seitanbeatsyourmeat666]

Fiber fills you up, so try not eating processed carbs foods and instead eating natural foods containing fiber… if you claim this doesn’t work (it does and it stabilizes BG) that only tells me you’ve never tried it 😂 Carnivores make all these excuses that don’t hold up under even the slightest scrutiny

[@ROFLPirate_x]

@@seitanbeatsyourmeat666 if you read the rest of my comment you would have seen my reference to eating fibre. Most of my diet is made up of leafy greens, nuts/legumes, meat and cheese. Keeps me ful even at 1200kcal days with an IF regiment. You are arguing with thin air right now..

[@ln5747]

​@@seitanbeatsyourmeat666 What doesn't hold up reference carnivore diet?

[@ROFLPirate_x]

@OdinsSage by eating vegetables and staying away from starchy carbs and sugar?

[@EvolveFiRE]

I challenge anyone who is a student of knowledge, objectivity, and science to watch this video regarding the intercellular relationship between, ketones and insulin resistance by Dr. Benjamin Bikman, molecular cellular biologist and physiologist: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJuZnmBnbNGnY9ksi=wB-Bc3Gq9NZ7MB9q I’m not sure what Professor Gardner’s qualifications other than evaluating published research conducted by other scientists, but he has a strong relationship with the American Diabetes Association and American Heart Association, both of which have been provided poor information regarding metabolic health for decades. I am 44, obese, hypertensive, and have Type-2 diabetes. The standard diet he advocates has not worked nor has veganism. This, I don’t know what is his hard stance against ketones being used as fuel, primarily in the brain 🧠, but he is wrong in many of his statements. He doesn’t actually explain in great detail the mechanisms behind his claims and much of his statements are not based off of his own experiments.

[@stuartgray5136]

Absolutely fabulous podcast. I think it has helped me solve a problem. My heath and fitness journey started back in November of 2014. I was 270+ Pounds. I'm 6'1½ the program I set up for myself (based on losing 2 pounds a month) when according to schedule. I ended up dropping around 100 pounds. Over approximately 4 years. At about 58 months I committed to the gym to get back the the muscle mass I lost along the way. I was lean had 6 pack abs. I have gain back muscle mass. Now- in the past 1½ due to listening to many podcast about gaining muscle and protein. We are told about 1 gram of protein for every pound of muscle. I wanted to get to 180 pounds so I increased my protein from around 70 to 80 grams a day to 180 to 200 grams a day. What I've noticed (and note I had gain back muscle mass) is my abs are starting to dissappear. And I have a bit of a fat build up along a line at my belly button. Couldnt figure out the problem without probably going on a calorie restriction diet. I had a calorie intake at the time I was goingbto increase my protien between 2800 cals to 3200 cals per day. I replaced certain foods to compensate for my protein increases staying around the the same amount of calories 2800 to 3200. Side note: through my weight loss I was consuming I figure around 80 grams of protein. From this podcast I learned that excess protein is broken down into carbs and stored fat. Bingo! My fat gains around my abdominal are probably from the excess protein. Now I'm an going to go back to the 80 grams of protien and see what happens over time. Changing nothing but reduced protein from were I'm currently at. This makes sence to me since sine the only real change was increased protein levels. Thanks great info. I was 58 when I started my health and fitness journey and now I'm 67. Thank- Stuart Gray.

[@NoSmoke1]

Keep it up Mr. Gray ‼️💪🏽💪🏽

[@tomatojuice12]

Wow! So you are saying that the excess protein caused that extra belly fat?

[@remcogeelen]

​@@tomatojuice12Yes he is. As in, it probably did.

[@remcogeelen]

​@@tomatojuice12Excess protein intake is just excess calory intake. Some will surely be turned into sugar and/or fat. So for most people, even fit people going to gyms and all, 100+ grams of protein per day means nothing else than growing fat slowly.

[@spongebobsquaretits]

@@remcogeelen 100 grams is only 400 calories. Its not really excessive

[@Danielle-zq7kb]

At 14:00 - the subjects of the study to determine protein RDA were young men, so the protein requirements of children, women, older adults, pregnant women and the elderly were not taken into account for protein requirements.Also, some people can’t properly synthesize all the amino acids that they should.

[@robinmorgan2713]

So critical! So unbelievably blinkered that this is "everybody" when certainly is not.

[@tryptamigo]

he says literally immediately after that that they based the RDA on a bell curve that targets just about everyone in the population. there is even margin of error to consider variance in digestibility and synthesis. yet the average American still eats twice that amount.

[@robz9988]

From what I understand the RDA recommendation is meant to be a minimum, not an optimal amount. Secondly the recommendations are substantially below the 1g per pound (2.2g per kilo) recommended by others such as Dr Layman and Dr Lyons amongst others. It would be helpful if there could be an explanation as to why Professor Gardner differs from others who focus on this area. Also as we get older our ability to utilise protein goes down so we need more for that reason. Lastly the protocols recommended by Dr Layman says that in order to trigger the utilisation of the amino acids in protein there needs to be a minimum intake per meal of 20g (if you are younger) so that there is adequate Leucine etc to start the process.

[@aminreviews2311]

Although there are differences in what experts recommend as a daily requirement (0.8mg/kg vs 1mg/kd vs 1.2mg/kg), virtually all of these experts recognize that most people are eating more than any of these amounts without even trying. So it’s kind of a moot issue unless someone is on a low calorie diet.

[@MarmaladeINFP]

Many of the people in the field of nutrition state that a significant number of Americans don't get enough protein. We've been indoctrinated in a society that has warned against animal foods that are the main sources of bioavailable complete proteins.

[@god8348]

@@aminreviews2311people try to optimize certain aspects of their body and health. The American average is certainly not a good measurement in this regard

[@Alec_Collins78]

Yep. The internet is full of rich men who think their bank balances show their intelligence.

[@daves.9479]

No, the RDA is not meant to be a minimum, and there is no defined "optimal" amount. The RDA represents an adequate intake for almost everyone (97.5%) and more protein is not better, but rather is burned for its Calories and the N is excreted as urea in the urine.

[@maleks3121]

I have been vegetarian/vegan since I was 7 years old. I'm in my mid twenties. I run, hike, read, write. I feel good. Thanks for reassuring me I'm fine!!

[@gapat8213]

You are but majority of people wouldnt be.

[@newwonderer]

it is strange that you need "reassuring" ... you can feel it : if you feel great - then you wouldn't need it

[@oppothumbs1]

Watch out for Iron deficiency. B-12. low Creatine. Carnosine. Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). You should supplement. Vegetarian men live for an average of 7 years longer than non-vegetarian men but it's 7 very painful years.

[@barbh6987]

Yes, and start the d3, probably 1000IU and B12 1000 MCG. That's what I take. I'm a vegetarian for 50 years and just improved my bones to osteopenia. Keep a close watch of your bone health lots of walking and weight bearing exercises. You'll be just fine!

[@toulcas3448]

The point is to keep doing this till your mid seventies and be healthy.

[@j24601valjean]

Professor Gardner is packed full of informational nutrition... a veritable legume of academia.

[@albelanger6126]

Excellent article. I really like the way Christopher explains it. One thing that I am missing: .8 grams per 1 kg of body weight & that most people should be eating around 40 grams. This mean that most people weight about 50kg (110 lb). What am I missing? Could it .8g per kg of lean body mass?

[@rblongfellow]

Yes lean body weight

[@gabriellakadar]

@@shariatiehsan On this KZbin channel, plant based diet is promoted. Prof. Gardner follows a plant based diet.

[@magnesiafrost1863]

Most people weigh way more than 50kg. I'm 164cm 50kg is a BMI of 18,6, which is almost underweight (18,5). Taking 0,8g/kg into account I need 44g/day of protein. With my current diet it is hard for me to reach 44g/day.

[@robertsinke9211]

Not the only omission. He sort of steps over the fact that men older than 60 definitely need more protein. And not because they are toothless and lonely. Furthermore, we are not all Americans and do not consume 3.000 Kcal.

[@timurhant469]

@@shariatiehsan Fat tissue is the most passive tissue with the lowest metabolic rate. So lean body mass is what is needed to calculate protein and energy needs.

[@psychalogy]

That Master’s student study he referenced had six people per test condition and ran for four weeks. It’s not surprising at all that the results didn’t reach statistical significance. It sounds like one of the most underpowered studies ever devised.

[@superkev500]

He pointed out it was a preliminary study , that's how it works in academic research.

[@psychalogy]

@@superkev500 a study that underpowered fails even as a preliminary study. Seems more like an exercise for the student to go through, not actual research that was supposed to reveal anything.

[@sophiekarnak3936]

You misunderstood the study: EVERY subject did a vegan diet for 4 weeks, an omnivorous diet for 4 weeks, and a plant-based meat substitute diet for 4 weeks, so each athlete served as his or her own control over the 12-week course of the study. And they found that although the subjects ate significantly less protein while they were on the vegan diet, there was no change in their performance despite the lower protein intake.

[@kingofwesteros9868]

@@sophiekarnak3936 "there was no change in their performance despite the lower protein intake" - that doesn't mean it was at least good, let alone outstanding. Their performance could be just decent.

[@griffinbur1118]

@@psychalogyRight. Sample sizes that small mean that noise almost inevitably overpowers signal. The possibility for problems in achieving truly random selection or controlling for covariates in the absence…overwhelming. It’s not preliminary, it’s just worthless.

[@markrhodes4891]

After watching this video I watched a video with Don Layman. He was also introduced as the expert in all things protein. It's amazing how contradictory his views are in relationship to this video. How can that be?

[@robinmorgan2713]

Science is never "done". Always need more research, better measuring instruments, better questions to be answered by research.

[@stargazerbird]

How about the over 70s? I am 70, currently on a calorie deficit, lifting weights and running. All those together add on requirement for a lot more grams of protein. Muscle mass needs care when we age.

[@jakobw135]

Are you saying that protein supplement powders should not be consumed?

[@gillyfranklin1550]

You mentioned that if you are trying to build muscle through strength-training, you may benefit from an extra ~20g protein on top of the RDA (0.8g/kg body weight) to account for muscle breakdown during exercise followed by muscle repair/growth. Would this only apply on the days you are actively working out or would there be a benefit to consuming an additional 20g every day, regardless of activity?

[@tymondabrowski12]

Probably doesn't matter much, all food you eat kinda gets averaged within a week. So the only difference is overall added amount.

[@oliverleslie7382]

Actually, only sugar can build muscles. Professor Gardner is a nice guy, a smart guy - but once again, the sad reality is that what he knows, how he learned, was trained etc. is outdated data. Science is not static but it seems that with nutrition science - it very much is static. What we know today, 2023, November 28th at the time of this comment, is that we can't use dietary, supplementary, exogenous proteins and amino acids. @resurgem Which means, the statement "if we don't get proteins or AAs, we die" is incorrect. We humans, just like all the other 9 million species on earth, are genetically predisposed to make all the nutrients we need. Yes, the body can convert atmospheric Nitrogen, N2, into the user friendly N3 - so the nitrogen Balance standard for testing is moot null and void - another bit of old science understandings that were more assumptions than actual fact. Labs are now showing humans can in fact synthesize the so called essential amino acids like Leucine, Lysine, Threonine etc. Vegans are not lacking any nutrient in their diets. Those who fast for 20, 30, 40, 50 day water fasts are also not lacking any amino acids, or proteins etc. - and are not dying. The idea that we break down dietary proteins into the amino acids and then the body re employs them to make X - is false, it was stuff of yesteryear, an era where we had no way to really show this, no way to really prove this - and the number one reason for why we could not prove this, 50 years ago, or in the 1940s, the time the 'essential' narrative was born, was because we simply did not have the technology. And guess what, today, 2023, we Still don't have the tech to show exogenous proteins get cleaved, broke down to AAs and then those AAs go somewhere and get rebuilt into new proteins. In a lab, petri dish dynamics, we have some ideas about proteins and amino acids, but not at all in living cells that exist en vivo in real time, in living organisms. Even tagging and tracking proteins and AAs is poor science lacking in true tech to observe what happens when food is digested. The idea of dietary proteins is not how the body works. Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly. Oliver

[@ningunoag]

@@oliverleslie7382 source it up

[@chavez349]

Daily

[@XpulseLoL]

For the average person, this video is helpful and the numbers Prof. Gardner puts out do make sense. HOWEVER for anyone into bodybuilding/wanting to put on muscle: studies actually do suggest that a protein intake of ~1.6g/kg is optimal for muscle growth - and distributing protein intake evenly throughout the day (3-4 meals) increases muscle protein synthesis. Of course this might not be true for everyone, some might need a bit more (experienced lifters), some might need less.

[@barbarafairbanks4578]

@XpulseLOL yep...Agree! Howevrr, those here who are salivating over Dr. Gardner's low protein numbers aren't taking into account - what's being unspoken here - these min. requirements are for the purpose of surviving, not thriving.

[@wagwanyute]

Did you watch the video? the RDA is meant to cover 97.5% of the population. That means unless you are some kind of genetic phenomenon, 0.8g/kg protein is adequate. The rigorous studies I have read on this, all suggest muscle protein synthesis plateaus before 1g/kg. I have read studies and analyses that suggest what you are saying; muscle mass increase found greater at 1.2 -1.6g/kg body weight. I have only seen results that show plateau at 1g/kg look at the graphs yourself. 1. muscle mass increase has many factors aside from protein intake, beyond 0.8g/kg the plateau is effected by many things that can't be controlled, diet, form, sleep, etc. 2. you are intaking more protein as you gain muscle, as per the ratio. you are assuming this adjustment is inadequate, thus the need for the protein that being said theres no harm in extra protein I easily consume 160g protein a day, but if you are losing weight, its wise to keep excess protein in mind

[@XpulseLoL]

@@wagwanyute Did you read my comment? 97.5% of the population probably aren't bodybuilders. I was talking exclusively about the protein intake of people who want to put on muscle. If you don't believe me, feel free to look up some studies on protein intake and muscle growth.

[@Scor-ah]

Watch the Movie Game Changers

[@xnoreq]

​@@wagwanyute Nonsense. You apparently haven't looked at "recent" (few years ago) meta-analyses. There is no plateau. There is a knee in the curve at roughly 1.5g protein/kg BW up to which there is a significant increase in muscle gains for every added bit of protein. Beyond that the slope is less steep but there are still significant increases up to and beyond even 2g protein/kg BW. Gardner is also wrong in saying that everybody easily meets those numbers. I was even below the RDA and it is not easy to get in 1.2 let alone 1.6g of protein/kg BW. Yeah, almost every piece of food contains protein but that's like saying honey contains vitamins, protein and minerals ... you only need to eat 10kg of it to meet the RDAs of the nutrients it contains. Lentils, for example, are said to be rich in protein but if you want to eat 140g of protein/day then you'd need to eat 1.6kg of it. A typical serving size however provides only 12g of protein. You said many things that influence muscle mass increase cannot be controlled, but all of the things you list can in fact be controlled. And in good studies they are controlled for or their effects mitigated through randomization. What you and Gardner say only makes sense for people that do ZERO resistance training and don't even care about maintaining their muscle mass, because then your and Gardner's numbers start to make sense as the same studies show. But WITH resistance training some studies have shown increases up to 3.5g protein/kg BW at which point most people are sick from the sheer amount of ingested protein. You also mention an adjustment as per the ratio due to muscle gain. That's nonsense. Muscle gain is incredibly slow. If you're 85kg and gain 5kg of muscle mass over a year then the RDA increases by a whopping 4g.

[@DevPreston]

This was very useful. I do weight training for muscle gain, non-competing, and I am well aware how much people like me are targeted by sales which may have zero benefit above placebo.

[@barbh6987]

I learned something here and not stressing about my diet will help. We have so many other things to worry about which is probably why we all feel a little sick. My question here is I was told I had osteoporosis and needed more protein and of course supplements because I have been a vegetarian for 50 years. I did up my dairy intake slightly and ate fish a few times, begrudgingly and took my vitamins D and B12. I didn't do really anything else and in less than 2 years gained enough bone mass to be called osteopenia. My doctor was shocked. I guess I was too because they painted a poor picture for me to heal my bones. I wonder now if I really need more protein or was it the vitamins that help process what I would normally get is the plain and simple answer. So I don't need to add fish protein to my vegetarian diet. I guess I'll see in a year on next bone scan.

[@andrewilson8096]

Minerals... that's what you needed. That comes from living food, fruits and vegetables. If your diet has alot of pasta and bread that uses unsprouted flour or other unsprouted grains all the minerals will not get absorbed. Without fish and the constant use of those unsprouted grains you will be in deficient. Hence, why foods with enzymes and probiotics are so important; like kimchi or sauerkraut. They help in breaking down the foods to allow that absorption. The more of those grains you eat, the deficiency becomes much much greater. Fish helps with the same amino acids being mentioned in the video, the unsprouted grains and flours inhibit the minerals necessary for the processing of the amino acids. Minerals are used for processes in the body.

[@frogsplorer]

Consider vitamin K2, especially mk4. I think it carboxylates osteocalcin, or something. Anyway I believe it is important for teeth and bones

[@edgbarra]

Probably the vit d helped a lot. Most people are deficient and it's crucial to help calcium get into the bone

[@Engrave.Danger]

Every natural plant source of protein contains anti-nutrients that reduce protein absorption, such as fiber, trypsin and protease inhibitors. As we age, our ability to utilize the protein we consume diminishes and so we need more. Yes, all of the amino acids are found in plants but their ratios and bioavailability are poor, plus you'll have to consume a lot of carbohydrates and omega-6 with ALA that has a poor omega-3 conversion. If you wanna get your protein from plants, a protein supplement is a better way to go.

[@andrewilson8096]

@@Engrave.Danger I see you weren't educated on how to counter those anti nutrients in plants.

[@thenande]

27:35 is the part I don't really understand. In the beginning he said a person needs 0.8g protein per kg and if bodybuilding then about 10g more but at this part he seemed to agree that a person needs as much as 1.6g per kg. Did I misunderstand it?

[@sercan272727]

well 0.8 per kg for average person who doesnt exercise, and he said you would need additional 20 grams per day, and folks in exercise science field come up with a number like 0.8 per lb of lean body mass will maximize muscle gains. thats assuming they also maximized their protein breakdown with perfect training. so both numbers arent too far off. because most people arent super lean, so they carry at most 140-150 lbs lean mass, so it works out 100-120 grams protein will probably maximize 90% of people's muscle gains.

[@thenande]

@@sercan272727 Thanks for your reply! However that's not about the same though. My weight is 77kg, lean mass is about 63.5kg. Going by 0.8g/kg+20g that's 70.8g of protein I need. If going by 1.6g/kg then I will need 101.6g of protein, that is significantly more, by about 43% more.

[@peterparahuz7094]

apparently consuming protein keeps you satiated longer than eating the equivalent calories in carbs. if so, consuming a higher proportion of calories from protein could aid in maintaining a calorie deficit during a weight loss diet.

[@77dris]

Bingo.

[@lejlateletovic5225]

Fibers + fat + protein is what keeps us satiated. And everything that raises insulin levels will make us hungry faster.

[@oliverleslie7382]

ifbacongrewontrees.wordpress.com/2023/09/14/how-do-you-get-your-proteins/

[@SL-wt8fm]

​@@lejlateletovic5225why tho?

[@bjmaston]

The proximate answer is: it’s evolutionary. The ultimate answer may never be known. I speculate that carbs were hard to come by for most of history and humans evolved a gorge response to take advantage of whenever they were found.

[@kl7985]

I'm so confused, tbh. Dr. Peter Attia suggests far more protein, as does Alan Aragorn and Mike Israetel. All are experts, who is right?

[@maryannm338]

Thanks for a very practical approach. Your very last comment sparked a question. The 10 gm protein bar might put just as much fat or glycogen into storage as a chocolate if you eat it as a bed time snack. But what about the blood sugar spike that would happen from a sweet treat? That's not good for anyone's sleep or just in general. Does the 10 gm of excess protein avoid the blood sugar spike? If so, that seems like a worthwhile reason to go ahead and eat protein rather than a cookie.

[@salguodrolyat2594]

Look into Berberine and chromium picolinate. These two taken together act as insulin mimetics to take as supplements to prevent blood glucose and insulin spikes at night.😁

[@EvolveFiRE]

I challenge anyone who is a student of knowledge, objectivity, and science to watch this video regarding the intercellular relationship between, ketones and insulin resistance by Dr. Benjamin Bikman, molecular cellular biologist and physiologist: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJuZnmBnbNGnY9ksi=wB-Bc3Gq9NZ7MB9q I’m not sure what Professor Gardner’s qualifications other than evaluating published research conducted by other scientists, but he has a strong relationship with the American Diabetes Association and American Heart Association, both of which have been provided poor information regarding metabolic health for decades. I am 44, obese, hypertensive, and have Type-2 diabetes. The standard diet he advocates has not worked nor has veganism. This, I don’t know what is his hard stance against ketones being used as fuel, primarily in the brain 🧠, but he is wrong in many of his statements. He doesn’t actually explain in great detail the mechanisms behind his claims and much of his statements are not based off of his own experiments.

[@kahahabahaha]

> Does the 10 gm of excess protein avoid the blood sugar spike? Just speculating a bit, but probably? After all, gluconeogenesis process probably takes a non-zero amount of time.. but I'm not sure if it's all released into teh bloodstream at once or more slowly than an isocaloric amount of carb. Either way, I wouldn't sweat the blood sugar spike from 10g of excess protein (assuming conversion) or 10g of sugar, esp if 90% of the rest of your diet model is reasonable.

[@sonjawells4265]

This is the best ZOE show I have ever watched.😀 I would love to hear more from the two of you. Incredible how much I have learned and now understand. Thank you ever so much!!!🤩

[@gmo709]

Very interesting. Good information. One thing I would like to add ifrom an appetite perspective, is that...protein has high satiety per calorie. ..unlike addictive, proccessed carbs.

[@NF-xy6br]

!!!!!!

[@mandyhaven4290]

Idk if I was low on protein not getting enough fat or intolerant to many foods but I was suffering tremendously. Hormone issues , insomnia, anxiety , tachycardia , thyroid issues , adrenaline issues ect . I went carnivore for 5 weeks ( mostly beef and butter) the first week everything resolved and I got the calmest feeling every time I ate beef . Back up to previous diet most my life I ate mostly plants and grains (avoided meat making complete protein with legumes and grains ) ended up with horrible gut issues , 3 years ago went low carb was eating all meats fruits and veggies no refined sugars no grains was getting much better . It was then that I noticed how swollen I was . Fast forward to covid everything took a turn for worse I sometimes thought I was gonna die I was still doing low carb going to dr and hospital they couldn’t figure out why my heart would jump to 180 in my sleep and why my thyroid numbers were only off during luteal. Next experiment of desperation carnivore omg I feel it saved my life everything disappeared within a week . I never slept so good in my life . I am now months post carnivore ( I love my veggies meat not so much ) everything is still much better. I stay a bit meat heavy . I don’t sleep as good off carnivore but better than prior to trying it My suggestion we are all different. If you are on any meds consider them a temporary bandaid . Most of us can heal with diet wether it be meats , fruits or veggies try different things but don’t give up .

[@mandyhaven4290]

There are many living a vegan life style doing quite well , there are many living carnivore life style doing quite well but we don’t all flourish on the same diet

[@mandyhaven4290]

I really didn’t lose an weight on carnivore wasnt my goal but as far as things turning into fat every things to to fat including carbs . I actually only loss weight when I eat higher fat which ends up being more calories so idk if the calorie equation is good . Fat supposedly doesn’t trigger insulin which I’m being told is fat storage hormone. I no longer avoid fat .

[@clairecadoux471]

Brilliant. Love this. I need 42g protein apparently, so now I will measure what I am in fact consuming. I suspect it is more. I raised my protein intake a few years ago - I feel better....no more hypoglycemia moments.

[@TunaCanGuzzler]

yeah, don't just take things as truth because a 'expert' tells you these things. go by feel, and read the studies.

[@priscillaallen5276]

Very interesting to hear the research behind the recommendations. Lots of new research is going on thankfully. I am 73 and have found a very noticeable improvement in my nails, hair and skin after I added collagen to my diet at 72. I must have been deficient in these most of my life because they have been a problem as long as I can remember. I have always taken care to eat well but a normal good diet was deficient.

[@stevenfrew9301]

Absolutely fascinating discussion and explained in a way simple enough for me to understand. "Stop obsessing about protein" must be my favorite line. It amuses me now that almost every food packaging I see in the supermarket has something written on it such as "Good source of protein" or "High in protein"

[@billygauthier9512]

I wonder how athletes and very fit people would do if they decided to "stop obsessing about protein"? Any good nutritionist would tell you what happens to most in this situation, their performance would decline.

[@Dowlphin]

And that's often not even true, but pure marketing BS, with only minute differences to 'regular' foods. But the amino acids coverage point is important, because it means you might actually need more protein where you cannot balance the amino acid types properly with diverse sources. It is sad, though, to see the guy make mistakes against his own preaching, like glorifying fiber, demonizing saturated fats and neglecting potential harmful substances in plant protein products while only mentioning them in regards to meat.

[@godnyx117]

Yeah, it's marketing. It seems so weird and fascinating to me that people don't understand that everything resolves around money and marketing. Next thing you gonna tell me is that you guys believe that doctors truly care about your health and not about making money...

[@samburrell3288]

yeh it's garbage honestly. this is a very anti-meat channel, they are so mainstream. i'm not a fan, very biased and simply wrong. Luckily there's a lot of other good sources here on youtube. Of course protein is incredibly important, animal protein is the most superior and bio-available and saturated fat from animals is not bad for you, in fact it's very good for you@@Dowlphin

[@Dowlphin]

@@samburrell3288 Oh, does KZbin do the thing with the user name at the end to you, too? Started a couple days ago. So annoying. What browser do you use? I could imagine they're doing this stuff on purpose.

[@stephenevans7547]

Distinctions definitely need to be made between those training to maintain muscle, those trying to optimise muscle growth and those who don't train at all. The common number seen in gym circles to optimise muscle building is 2g per kg of body weight (1g per lb). However, meta-analyses have shown that, for most people, 1.4g -1.6g per kg of bw should be enough. Personal trainers are not always up to date with these numbers, and even then, they often opt to go for the "better safe than sorry" 2g per kg of body weight. I think when giving protein advice it's best not to generalise. look at your individual situation. There are definitely circumstances where people still need to think about their protein intake. for example, someone who works a sedentary job is trying to lose fat, while gaining/maintaining muscle and eating a low-meat diet.

[@kahahabahaha]

A good strategy for finding out how much you need for ideal anabolism was in one of Mike Isratel's videos. Basically, go up to that upper limit (2g/kg or even more, whatever you want), try it out for a full training mesocycle, then go back to your original protein intake (say it was much lower, like 1g/kg). If results were significantly worse, try an amount of protein in between, like (1.5g/kg). Seems like a good way to maximize gains while minimizing total protein intake to only the actual needed amount. A good way to, as he puts it, spare one's anus lol.

[@luismiguel69able]

exactly!!!

[@mushy470]

@@kahahabahaha yess i did this. I am 50kg and i was eating like 100g of protein a day but decreased it to around 60g and was fine and still maintain my muscle and now i'm just not under digestive distress. My trainer wanted me to go even higher than 100

[@danthovict381]

Where did you read the meta-analyze that stated 1,4 is enough? I read at pubmed site (which also at meta analysis level) stated that in the case of intense of sport you need to consume 1.8-2.2g of protein.

[@mushy470]

it would also depend on your muscle mass btw. If you are fat, and you don't have much muscle, you don't need to eat much huge amounts of protein. @@danthovict381

[@Netanya-q4b]

would love to hear his thoughts on intermittent fasting since that's the only thing that's really worked for me to regulate my weight/health

[@georgewilson7808]

It takes about 100 calories of grain to produce about three calories of beef, or 100 calories of grain to produce 12 calories of chicken. Researchers have found that if we grew crops exclusively for humans to consume directly, we could feed an additional four billion people.

[@steft15]

grain, you are not telling which. either way, mostly carbohydrates.

[@andrewhostynski7701]

Extremely informative and presented in great style by a charming expert. Thank you.

[@Ensignpeak]

I'm not a PHD at Stanford but there are several key points he has omitted here.

[@blazguzelj7880]

Well dont keep us in the dark... share your wisdom.

[@JanLL]

There is a video in What I've Learned diacussing whether a protein is a protein highliting the diaas index

[@MillillioN]

Heya, I'd be interested to hear more. Can you point out what was missed out so that I can search for it.

[@JanLL]

Every protein totally broken down to the aminoacids level so that the body reconstructs all needed protein is not alway true, sometimes in fact looks like reaching down to peptides is enough, if not creatine would never work for instance, well, here follows the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnuxd2WVmaiKock

[@potterylady44]

Lol oh ok

[@tapiomakinen]

Now I'm confused. I just finished watching Peter Attia(MD) interview Don Lyman(Ph.D), who is a professor emeritus of nutrition at the University of Illinois. The overall message was quite different from this one. Just when I thought, that now I know everything I need to know about protein and nutrition, I'm told the truth is, actually, quite the opposite.

[@tomburroughes9834]

I agree. I don't see many people building lots of muscle on a vegetarian diet, although much depends on what they exactly eat.

[@BJ-ui2rc]

@@tomburroughes9834 Lol there's a whole swath of vegan bodybuilders on youtube. Type it in the search bar and see what comes up. You could say the same about omnivores except that when I look around the average person is fat, not muscular, not strong, has very little endurance, and probably has a chronic health problem attributed to diet. They're eating a lot of meat too, so it seems that the meat isn't doing them any favors and probably has to do with the TRAINING.

[@uploadsnstuff8902]

It's because your body can store "proteins" in what is called free amino acid pools, it's biology 101. Not sure why Gardner is saying the opposite, but any google scholar search on this topic will turn hundreds of papers contradicting him. He is right on many topics, but saying that the body can't store proteins is 100% wrong, since he just explained that proteins are made of amino acids, which are stored in the plasma and cellular spaces. Those pools represent about 200g of the total amino acids of a 70kg individual, and are used in many metabolic reaction and protein turnover.

[@tapiomakinen]

@@uploadsnstuff8902 Thank you! I googled 'free amino acid pool' and spent 2 hours in that rabbit hole. Since you seem to know a thing or two about nutrition, I shamlessly take the opportunity and ask you a question about fiber, which these Zoe people are big fans of. Has insoluble fiber any other digestive function than mechanical stool pushing one? I have been told, that the soluble ones help creating short chain fatty acids, which are beneficial. Thus I am experimenting with only eating soluble fibers, and my gut seems happier now than before. Am I missing something here?

[@steveself9314]

Look up Doctor Robert Morse, and the first verse of the bible for the beautiful (though still difficult) truth

[@MrScruffa]

I welcome your interesting information regarding proteins. But my daughter won't eat meat and suffered for it until she found out that she was deficient in Vit B 12. A Vit B 12 injection later and all her symptoms left...she was back to nominal health again...no headaches, lethargy etc. My question is...Where do you get B12 from in plant food?????

[@catsrus2890]

You don't get it from plants. It's the one supplement they tell vegans to supplement with, so she could do it as a pill, if she won't eat meat.

[@JaneUK]

A lot of vegans use nutritional yeast

[@catsrus2890]

@@MrScruffa just take B12 supplements.

[@georgewilson7808]

B12 is made by bacteria, plants and animals do not make B12. B12 is found in plants like seaweed, algae, nutritional yeast, shiitake mushrooms, and a few others. B12 is often fortified in breakfast cereals. Adults only need 2.4 micrograms per day of B12 to meet the RDA. Meat has B12 because animals are given supplements to eat and then those supplements enter the human diet when meat is eaten. Meat eaters like to pretend they don't need supplements, but they shovel them down the throats of the animals they eat.

[@BalancedMentality]

In my experience eating more protein makes it easier to lose fat, because I am full with less calories. Sure protein can also be converted into full, but this aspect was unfortunatly not addressed.

[@pa-mo]

This is exactly what I find as well. I'm not sure if it's the lower % carbs or the higher % protein or a combo of the two, but by cutting carbs & eating more protein I am simply less hungry, and for many that is the biggest problem to overcome.

[@keithzastrow]

@@pa-mo Same. Exactly this. Although generally foods high in fats (healthy fats) provide much more feeling of fullness.

[@robertseybold3665]

Agreed! 100g of pasta equals 360kcal, 100g of chicken breast is around 100kcal. You do the math.... I'd rather eat 200g of lean meat than 80g of pasta to get full. So you don't necessarily have to worry about not getting enough protein in your diet, but it CAN help, calories being equal! If you just slap a protein bar ON TOP of your regular junk diet....it's not going to help.

[@oliverleslie7382]

Professor Gardner is a nice guy, a smart guy - but once again, the sad reality is that what he knows, how he learned, was trained etc. is outdated data. Science is not static but it seems that with nutrition science - it very much is static. What we know today, 2023, November 28th at the time of this comment, is that we can't use dietary, supplementary, exogenous proteins and amino acids. @resurgem Which means, the statement "if we don't get proteins or AAs, we die" is incorrect. We humans, just like all the other 9 million species on earth, are genetically predisposed to make all the nutrients we need. Yes, the body can convert atmospheric Nitrogen, N2, into the user friendly N3 - so the nitrogen Balance standard for testing is moot null and void - another bit of old science understandings that were more assumptions than actual fact. Labs are now showing humans can in fact synthesize the so called essential amino acids like Leucine, Lysine, Threonine etc. Vegans are not lacking any nutrient in their diets. Those who fast for 20, 30, 40, 50 day water fasts are also not lacking any amino acids, or proteins etc. - and are not dying. The idea that we break down dietary proteins into the amino acids and then the body re employs them to make X - is false, it was stuff of yesteryear, an era where we had no way to really show this, no way to really prove this - and the number one reason for why we could not prove this, 50 years ago, or in the 1940s, the time the 'essential' narrative was born, was because we simply did not have the technology. And guess what, today, 2023, we Still don't have the tech to show exogenous proteins get cleaved, broke down to AAs and then those AAs go somewhere and get rebuilt into new proteins. In a lab, petri dish dynamics, we have some ideas about proteins and amino acids, but not at all in living cells that exist en vivo in real time, in living organisms. Even tagging and tracking proteins and AAs is poor science lacking in true tech to observe what happens when food is digested. The idea of dietary proteins is not how the body works. Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly. Oliver

[@MariusMitrache]

@@oliverleslie7382You need friends, Oliver.

[@williambunting803]

I’d love to hear the the balance of Protein with Minerals. That was a brilliant talk, I love Christophers’s presentation style.

[@natpaolone3897]

prof. Don Layman, most cited protien researcher, “need at least 1.5gm protein per kg to increase muscle mass.” A discussion with these 2 fine men would be helpful 😊

[@papazjose1274]

The reason why we have (2) totally opposite scientific results is because people are different. Meaning these (2) scientists are both correct as long as you personally fit the respective model. In my case, I do not digest beans, but tofu. So, beans are out. In addition when I cut out or limit carbs I always lose weight and my blood sugar is stable. Blood sugar=Insulin levels highly dictate how fat a person is or will continue to gain weight. I have a bunch of my friends who are high carb burners, They can eat a loaf of bread and feel great. I eat the same loaf of bread, and I break into hives, have shortness of breath, etc.. Hope this makes sense

[@lokanoda]

Yes! Absolutely! I feel all these smart people are usually staying within their bias-confirming echo chambers. An intelligent discussion would be awesome.

[@uweschroeder]

Strange, I eat at least that but all that increases is the belly, not the muscle mass 🙂

[@natpaolone3897]

@@uweschroeder likely it’s not the protien increasing the body fat. Try just eating the protein. Belly will disappear.

[@uweschroeder]

@@natpaolone3897 I don't think much of malnutrition diets. Keto being one of them. I think if I would stop drinking that liter of wine a day the belly would disappear no matter what I eat...

[@bartzed4305]

was brought up on eating carbs and vegeteables and continued doing that into my adult life which then also turned into somewhat low fat diet (a lot of lean white meat), until it became unstustainable, couple years ago made red meat the staple of my diet (with small sides of veggies and fermented foods) and noticed almost an instant change, no more brain fog, heartburn, indigestion, flatulance, energy crashes or need for afteroon naps. Introducing more fat into my died on it's own made a massive difference to my cognitive perfomance. Still having carbs and veggies but sparingly and with purpose, to either relax and fall asleep better (starchy stuff) or improve performance when training (fruits and grains).

[@jimn1023]

Well said. Saved me some writing. The recommendations overlook glycemic index. If protein is being converted to carbs that slows the metabolism of the foods. He vilifies saturated fat yet up to a certain proportion in the diet it isn't harmful. My criticism is that he oversimplifies a subject that for a portion of the population can be incredibly complex achieving the balance of satiety and proper nutrition.

[@georgewilson7808]

The 7th day Adventists are often studied because they are health conscious, don’t drink alcohol or smoke, and eagerly participate in studies. The ADVENTIST HEALTH STUDY 2 found the more animal products the 7th day Adventists removed from the human diet, the lower the body weight and the lower the risk of type 2 diabetes. Participants: 96,000 Adventists living in the U.S. and Canada.

[@orbifold4387]

The problem is that others like Don Layman are claiming the opposite, that iis we are not consuming enough protein. The idea that we should be consuming at least 2-3 protein-rich meals daily isn't discussed here. By "protein-rich", I mean enough protein to stimulate protein synthesis (muscle growth and repair), which is equivalently to consuming at least 2-5g of leucine in a single meal. According to Layman, most Americans only eat one protein-rich meal a day (usually dinner) and spend up to 22 hours per day wasting precious muscle mass in a catabolic state. To stop this catabolic state after an overnight fast, one could eat 4-5 eggs, or 100g of chicken breast. But as much as I like hummus, half a kilo of the stuff right after waking up is way too much for my poor lazy gut.

[@akospokovai413]

It's so frustrating that these doctors state exactly the opposite. one side says "You need only 0.8g protein/kg/day", the other says "you need 30gprotein per meal, below that it goes to waste because mtor is not stimulated". And all of them are 100% sure that they are right. And all of them have spent their whole life studying that and get the opposite result. So, if the 30g/meal protein requirement is valid, and beans are the "good" protein is valid , then you need to eat 1.5 can of beans 3 times a day to get enough leucine for each meal. nonsense.

[@marktapley7571]

Note also that eating all that grain will spike a lot of insulin (fat storage) in order to get the little bit of protein.

[@spiral-m]

@@marktapley7571 the traditional Okinawans didn't have any problem with high carb. Whole and refined carbs are like night and day, despite what some religiously claim.

[@paulb8251]

Your body is extremely complex and you don’t need to consume a “compete protein” in one meal to utilize the other essential amino acids within those proteins. You can do that with plants you don’t need the eggs and chicken breast. Humans wouldn’t have made it this far in evolution of that were the case.

[@akospokovai413]

@@paulb8251 Don Layman states exactly the opposite.

[@SuzanneU]

Interesting. I track my food as part of my wellness programme and I never get double the RDA! My intake ranges from 0.6 - 1.0g protein per kg body mass. It's most often right around 0.8g/kg. I don't plan it this way, it's just what happens through eating food!

[@fool9111z]

Same here. At this 0.8g/kg body weight, i have been able to grow muscles at about 1kg per months (heavy squats). The protein intake rda for sedentary and active people is overblown in the west. It makes no sense- 2g/kg means a 75kg male needs 150g per day. That’s about 450g chicken breast.😂

[@guyincognito5663]

If I eat like I normally do I will get like 15 grams of protein max.

[@riffs9504]

@@guyincognito5663 😂😂😂

[@paulb8251]

@Guy Incognito Do you just eat potato chips all day? What do you eat to gain so little protein?

[@fool9111z]

@@paulb8251 highly unlikely. He probably did not count protein from bread, rice and potatoes

[@luscao8444]

Hands down the best thing I've seen this week. Brilliant podcast!

[@mdariani]

Excellent episode. I'm learning so much about nutrition and food in the last months from Zoe and other KZbin science channels. I changed my diet according to what how I've seen, read and heard in all the interviews, podcasts, articles and books. I feel so much better. My whole body changed to the positive. Life quality improved a lot. Everything I knew as a kid, teenager and young adult was wrong. It started with the myth that orange juice is great (which is not the case... it's purely sugar) and now I'm learning that we dont need a lot of protein. Now the problem for me is that the more I learn about food and nutrition the less I know what is correct and true. There are enough other scientist and professors from the best universities in the world who say something different about the amount of protein we need. In the end I guess you have to find it out for yourself. Test and learn what is best for you. Do check your blood values regularly by a doctor who is specialised in this field so that you can see the effects and nothing goes wrong.

[@JW4REnvironment]

Well said! I completely agree that mainstream media has let us all down overall. By seeking real experts like Professor Gardner, I know I am doing much, much better at getting healthful foods every day. I especially appreciate the Physician's Committee and the Exam Room, which give lots of good advice!

[@oniichan5153]

i really would suggest lokking at presentations from low carb down under, this video has 6000 dislikes to 18000 likes it seems quite untrustable at least look at an another source explaining the importans of animal amino acids

[@Dan-dg9pi]

Fantastic interview. Extremely useful information.

[@bazs7669]

Great discussion and very informative. The presenter was excellent asking interesting questions and providing a useful summary at the end.

[@climate-moneymakingcampaig305]

Short term studies have always been found decieving, including this one here

[@piper6878]

The host is terribly irritating. Stop interrupting. Garbage host. We are in a flow state into 5th gear, and interrupting the speaker keep putting the entire conversation into 1st gear.

[@georgewilson7808]

FOOD HABITS IN LATER LIFE STUDY was undertaken among five cohorts in Japan, Sweden, Greece and Australia. Legumes were found to be the most important dietary predictor of survival in older people of different ethnicities. The results showed that for every 20 grams (one ounce) increase in daily legumes intake there was an 8% reduction in the risk of death. This study shows that no matter what your ethnic background or where you live, eat more legumes to live longer, especially as you age. Of all the food groups including meat, legumes alone had consistent and statistically significant results.

[@littlevoice_11]

Would love more discussion and clarification on specific amino acids in relation to longevity. For example soke research shows specific amino acids are related to anti aging (glycine) whilst others are thought to accelerate aging

[@clairespace3371]

This evidence based information is wonderfully explicit. Beautifully explained. So great to have a person on your expertise confirming individuals are different. We need to learn to listen to our bodies eat more when you need it eat less when you do less, consider what you eat when you are getting old. It's not difficult. Thanks for this!!!

[@DemiousStudios]

The evidence? What evidence? This is ALL THEORY. "Evidence" is when you put your THEORY to the test and yield repeatable results. Where are the top vegan athletes who TRAINED as a vegan to achieve physiologic excellence? Sure, there are a FEW post-success vegans. Show me someone in peak human form who has been strictly vegan for longer than five years and THAT would be "evidence".

[@osilva2367]

I didn't learn anything new, but I really appreciate the ability to make very important information about basic protein and dietary requirements very clear for the general public. I wish everyone could watch this.

[@candoit123]

How do you calculate your protein intake? Cause if I measure I get no where near 1.6g of protein per body weight you suggested the average person is probably getting without supplements

[@osilva2367]

@markriddle9749 I'm not sure your question is for me. I do not calculate or keep track of my protein intake. I eat a very balanced vegan diet. I've been vegan for 55 years, and I don't have any deficiencies.

[@carlo5442]

🌱💚

[@oliverleslie7382]

Here's something new: Professor Gardner is a nice guy, a smart guy - but once again, the sad reality is that what he knows, how he learned, was trained etc. is outdated data. Science is not static but it seems that with nutrition science - it very much is static. What we know today, 2023, November 28th at the time of this comment, is that we can't use dietary, supplementary, exogenous proteins and amino acids. @resurgem Which means, the statement "if we don't get proteins or AAs, we die" is incorrect. We humans, just like all the other 9 million species on earth, are genetically predisposed to make all the nutrients we need. Yes, the body can convert atmospheric Nitrogen, N2, into the user friendly N3 - so the nitrogen Balance standard for testing is moot null and void - another bit of old science understandings that were more assumptions than actual fact. Labs are now showing humans can in fact synthesize the so called essential amino acids like Leucine, Lysine, Threonine etc. Vegans are not lacking any nutrient in their diets. Those who fast for 20, 30, 40, 50 day water fasts are also not lacking any amino acids, or proteins etc. - and are not dying. The idea that we break down dietary proteins into the amino acids and then the body re employs them to make X - is false, it was stuff of yesteryear, an era where we had no way to really show this, no way to really prove this - and the number one reason for why we could not prove this, 50 years ago, or in the 1940s, the time the 'essential' narrative was born, was because we simply did not have the technology. And guess what, today, 2023, we Still don't have the tech to show exogenous proteins get cleaved, broke down to AAs and then those AAs go somewhere and get rebuilt into new proteins. In a lab, petri dish dynamics, we have some ideas about proteins and amino acids, but not at all in living cells that exist en vivo in real time, in living organisms. Even tagging and tracking proteins and AAs is poor science lacking in true tech to observe what happens when food is digested. The idea of dietary proteins is not how the body works. Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly. Oliver

[@netashea212]

Hi Jonathan Because we hae trouble digesting beans, do you think we could get enough protein by eating nuts with the grains? Thank you

[@simply_nd_a]

OMG I LOVED this! Finally, an answer to this question. My question is. What about collagen??? I'd love to know his opinion on this topic!!! And, another curiosity I have is the Fruit sugar hype on it being considered sugar and to avoid . Something I think that's getting a lot of misinformation on recently. Just subscribed!

[@RichardNutman]

If you eat fruit, eat the whole fruit, the fibre slows the sugar release. Avoid fruit juice which spikes your blood sugar. Try moving towards less-sweet apples. A lot of fruit these days is bred for sweetness which isn't great for us.

[@BlissBlessHappiness]

@@RichardNutman There is not a single study EVER in the scientific literature showing any danger with whole fruit consumption, on the contrary, the vast majority of studies show benefits, and some massively so...

[@hugoanderkivi]

​@@BlissBlessHappiness Yet fructose is implicated in fatty liver disease. Look at what those studies are replacing with fruits, and you'll understand better. Hint: they replace junk with a whole food, and it turns out to be more healthy, surprise. Fruits can be beneficial; it depends on a person's needs, wants, and conditions.

[@TasteOfButterflies]

​@@RichardNutman breeding fruit for sweetness often means selecting for less acid, not for more sugar.

[@paulb8251]

@ Hugo Ander Kivi Id love to read how fruits promote fatty liver disease.. can you post the link?

[@wolf-uweostermann502]

Yes, superb teacher! One learns without realizing one is learning. This is the real art of teaching. Thank you so much for this podcast.

[@Alan74_ynwa]

Why did you watch the video if you had no intention of learning? He blatantly lied about proteins.

[@yellowledbutter]

@@Alan74_ynwawhat were the lies?

[@Alan74_ynwa]

@@yellowledbutter He claimed all proteins are the same. Try eating enough protein from plants when you want to build muscle. Leucine is needed and you need to consume over twice the calories to get the same benefits. I'm trying to bulk up with a high metabolism so correct information is important. I wondered why he would say that so I googled to see if he was a vegan. He and his wife are.

[@IgnoreMeImWrong]

I knew he was Vegan going in, especially the moment he said eating more protein can't help with weight loss. @@Alan74_ynwa More protein as a Vegan is difficult for weight-loss because the Carbohydrates screw with your Leptin but more protein in a low Carb /no-Vegan diet will absolutely help if you're not overeating, which is hard to do(Overeat) because the Leptin is in your system so much.

[@raigreen517]

@@yellowledbutter he doesn't talk about the bio-availability of plant-based protein being lower than meat-based, the problem with plant-based is not all amino acid in it are equal (they are actually far from equal) basically amino acid absorption would be based on the lowest amino acid available during digestion so from plant-based protein the majority of amino acid are wasted, that's why you benefit a lot from eating your vegetables with meat that way most amino acid coming from your greens aren't wasted since they are getting digested at the same time as meat protein.

[@Theraiderofarcs]

Great interview. I like the part where he says basically if you just eat a healthy diet you will meet your protein needs. See I always thought if you eat a healthy diet for your caloric needs you will be deficient on everything. So it’s good to know if I eat good foods my body will be fine. It’s also interesting he skipped right over bioavailability. That’s usually a taking point about protein and nutrition in general. Is the bioavailability of protein equal between plants and animal products. If it isn’t how big of a difference is there. He also does not mention how people who are lower wages get protein in their diet. What are the studies of that?

[@AaronVets]

Watch the whole video. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@alexfrank5331]

34:50 Professor Gardner shared why many vegans suffer from their choice of diet. Very important to understand this. Vegan is for smart people who are good at including the right variety of food. Most people (vegan, vege, keto, carnivore, whatever) are picky eaters and they tend to prefer some favorites. Veganism only works when you eat smart and choose foods that complement each other as Gardner said. If all you eat is Beans and Toast, you're toast. Vegans have to think more to make it work. Vegans have to be smarter together and not just be cult-like and blindly-trust without careful strategy.

[@sandyfoot]

Yes. Including B12 injections, iron, zinc and omega fatty acid supplements. Eating a grass fed steak once a week is safer and easier. The nutrients are all infinitely more bio available in the form of a steak than in the supplements. What other nutrients are missing that we don’t know about? Grass fed organic beef is insurance.

[@ellap8231]

Basically we’re eating way too much of everything. And it’s reflected in our waistlines, guts and health! It’s a great podcast and a wake up call. Time to cut the calories. Thank you 🙏

[@notfarfromgone1]

eat mindfully and relish the fact that you are able to. beautiful.

[@gordondawson8576]

I loved this podcast, a big big thank you to all involved in its creation. Eat well live well.

[@oliverleslie7382]

Professor Gardner is a nice guy, a smart guy - but once again, the sad reality is that what he knows, how he learned, was trained etc. is outdated data. Science is not static but it seems that with nutrition science - it very much is static. What we know today, 2023, November 28th at the time of this comment, is that we can't use dietary, supplementary, exogenous proteins and amino acids. @resurgem Which means, the statement "if we don't get proteins or AAs, we die" is incorrect. We humans, just like all the other 9 million species on earth, are genetically predisposed to make all the nutrients we need. Yes, the body can convert atmospheric Nitrogen, N2, into the user friendly N3 - so the nitrogen Balance standard for testing is moot null and void - another bit of old science understandings that were more assumptions than actual fact. Labs are now showing humans can in fact synthesize the so called essential amino acids like Leucine, Lysine, Threonine etc. Vegans are not lacking any nutrient in their diets. Those who fast for 20, 30, 40, 50 day water fasts are also not lacking any amino acids, or proteins etc. - and are not dying. The idea that we break down dietary proteins into the amino acids and then the body re employs them to make X - is false, it was stuff of yesteryear, an era where we had no way to really show this, no way to really prove this - and the number one reason for why we could not prove this, 50 years ago, or in the 1940s, the time the 'essential' narrative was born, was because we simply did not have the technology. And guess what, today, 2023, we Still don't have the tech to show exogenous proteins get cleaved, broke down to AAs and then those AAs go somewhere and get rebuilt into new proteins. In a lab, petri dish dynamics, we have some ideas about proteins and amino acids, but not at all in living cells that exist en vivo in real time, in living organisms. Even tagging and tracking proteins and AAs is poor science lacking in true tech to observe what happens when food is digested. The idea of dietary proteins is not how the body works. Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly. Oliver

[@joquerol]

I think this is a very first world centric view. As a lean man from a third world country, I can tell you I never used to get enough protein by "just eating". Most people's diets here revolve around bread, rice, pasta, cookies, chips, and soda. We only ever eat any type of meat during lunch, and that's not every day, and it's a very low quality source like processed meats or fatty ground beef. It might be hard to imagine for some, but there are places where having eggs and ham in the morning, or having a bit of any high quality protein source for lunch or dinner is a bit of a luxury. And sure, we have a lot of people who overeat enough of everything to get a lot of protein in their diets, but as soon as you restrict your calories you risk being very low on protein and on many important vitamins, minerals, etc. When I started working out and tracking calories and macros, I had to put a lot of effort into making sure I hit the 0.8-1.6 grams/kilo they talk about. So all in all, there definitely are good reasons to supplement protein or to pay attention to how much protein you're getting. Especially when you're trying to lose weight and don't have constant affordable access to high quality protein sources.

[@temporaryname8905]

I live in the USA and am in your exact situation. Chicken? Too expensive. Beef? Even more expensive. Fish? Even MORE even more expensive.

[@gregtanner1444]

The explanation of the daily requirements of protein, whether from animal or plant sources, using the srabble analogy, was wonderfully informative. The recapping was brillliant. Many thanks !

[@edwodehouse9528]

I have read/heard that some of the essential amino Acids are not in plants, is this true?

[@Hollysuzette33]

It is not true. For instance, a cow needs the same essential amino acids as we do, but they eat only plants. Essential amino acids, which our bodies can not produce, are only made by the plant kingdom. Think of the essential aminos in animal flesh as recycled from plants. I hope this makes sense.

[@paraalso]

No, but some plants do not contain as a percentage enough of specific essential amino acids to fulfill what is recommended for human diet if you were getting all of your protein from that specific plant source. You should be eating a variety of plants anyway for health reasons, so this is unlikely to be a problem.

[@pauldavies7251]

​@@Hollysuzette33it makes no sense whatsoever ever, Plant proteins are an incomplete protein source & that's a fact, The micro nutrients of 200gram steak is 10 x times the amount of 200grams of plants I know your a "vegan" but please stop chatting shit

[@murmor6890]

Good points, however it must also be said that for building muscle consuming additional protein will result in a better distribution of protein synthesis over the day. If you eat 3-4 times a day it absolutely makes sense to get 20-30g of protein with each meal if you want to build muscle, this is were stuff like protein shakes or more ideally an adjusted, higher protein but balanced diet can help. Also there are some benefits for weight loss as protein keeps you fuller and is more difficult to digest, leading to some of its kcal being "spent" on digestion.

[@d0ubtingThom4s]

Important to note, that if you're losing weight it's 1.5 g/kg of your *desired* weight, not your current weight.

[@somegeezer4058]

Protein remains in your body for around 24 hours that's more than enough time for effective distribution.

[@TheMountainBeyondTheWoods]

You absolutely do not need protein shakes even if you want to have more protein than you actually need, you can very easily get that protein by eating some eggs or beans, and they are much healthier than some protein powder, and also, animal protein is more easily digestible than than plant protein, not more difficult, so you got that backwards.

[@Delerisk]

@OdinsSage And what is that cap?

[@Atheria444]

My issue (and many other women can agree) is that I don't eat enough calories to keep my weight down. I'm a very long term vegan and have been obsessed with adding protein powders to my limited calorie diet. I know that if you're dieting, some protein gets wasted and used for energy, so that you need a much higher protein intake. I've had signs of not enough protein like hair loss. If I lower my intake, my nails grow slower too.

[@Livetoeat171]

Without sacrificing any animals lives, you could start eating eggs, either in the recipes or by themselves without having to feel you were causing an animals death. None of the eggs you buy in the store are not fertilized, but then you might feel a bit better with a little bit of protein each day.

[@Atheria444]

@@Livetoeat171 Do you know that male chicks, just hours old, are ground up alive as they are "not needed". The egg industry is cruel, as are all animal industries. I don't need eggs for protein. My blood work shows my protein intake is great. I'd rather increase pea/soy protein powders, beans, nuts, seeds, etc. if needed.

[@Atheria444]

@OdinsSage You have a valid point but I don't want to gain weight and eat more, so there's that. I need to supplement with protein powder. I like being a petite flower. :-)

[@trucid2]

Sad to see people like you who are deficient in essential nutrients continue with their plant only diet. If you keep going with it you will keep wasting away.

[@silversurfer6821]

@@Atheria444 eat a steak a day, all your issues will be gone. good luck!

[@peterophobic]

Thank you for all the eye opening, scientifically reliable videos that you share with us!

[@aliciab4236]

Bravo Dr. Gardner. This is the best discussion re: protein needs I've heard in 20 years. I'll be sharing this widely. Too bad there wasn't a way to share your slides. Do you happen to have a book planned?

[@hughmason7621]

Chris, I'm concerned that the study that established the RDA was done with sedentary men at the height of their ability to digest, absorb and assimilate protein and that it may not provide a safe value for older and especially more active older adults or for more active younger folks for that matter. Care to comment?

[@MamguSian]

Or women. Idk if there would be any difference between the sexes but without experimental evidence how can we tell? Still extremely interesting and helpful though, and given we're all getting way more than we need the lack of women in the study probably won't make a practical difference.

[@joinZOE]

Hey Hugh and thanks for your comment. We're recording a podcast on protein and exercise soon where we plan to dive deeper into protein requirements across different ages and activity levels. If you've got any questions ahead of the episode, please DM us on Instagram: instagram.com/zoe/?hl=en 🙏

[@hughmason7621]

@@joinZOE Excellent! Thanks so much for the reply and news of the deeper dive which I await with baited breath:)

[@universe5936]

Agreed, you don't need that much protein to be healthy, especially if you're sedentary, but if you want *optimal* muscle growth, especially in a caloric deficit, there is quite a lot of research out there confirming at least 1.5g/kg is optimal. That doesn't mean you can't grow and get stronger on substantially less, it will just take longer.

[@nikola.despotovic]

This is greatly oversimplified scenario, but I'll try to give you a few things to think about. Let's for a moment imagine protein as a piece of wood. You can use that piece of wood to build a leg for your chair (protein as a building block), or you can throw it in your fireplace (protein as an energy source). Now, you cannot use it to both for your chair and for your fireplace at the same time, can you. So you choose one or the other. But here is the catch. You also have charcoal (carbs and fats) and in lager amount than the wood, and you cannot use that to build a chair, so you try to preserve your wood and use the charcoal for your fireplace first. If you get to a point where you have more wood than charcoal, either by spending charcoal (use up your carbs and fats), or buying more wood (eating more protein), you will start using that wood for your fireplace. In other words, if you overrestrict your calorie intake in order to lose weight, you might associate muscle loss with the lack of protein intake, when it is in fact lack of calorie intake. Go ahead and try it. Switch that surplus of protein for carbs, and eat little closer to your maintenance calories. You will lose weight little slower, but you will keep your muscle, and you won't be lethargic and struggle for energy.

[@Zugmaschine]

@@nikola.despotovic so you say al thsi studies with 1.5g/kg and more, are wrong?

[@nikola.despotovic]

@@Zugmaschine What do you mean "all theese studies"? Give me some references. I don't think anything in life is black and white, but from my experince daily protein needs are way, way overexaggerated.

[@Zugmaschine]

@@nikola.despotovic What you think, how muc protein is needed at average per KG and day?

[@nikola.despotovic]

@@Zugmaschine I would say that an average person does not need to worry about protein if eating enough calories from variety of sources. On the other hand, there are people who would benefit from eating more protein, for example if restricting certain foods, or calories (protein will generally make you feel more satiated and make it easier to diet). Or the person has certain condition, or specificity of the sport they're training... There are different scenarios where more protein can be beneficial in one way or another, but for the most people, if they don't eat too much or too little and from variety of food sources, they don't need to worry.

[@georgewilson7808]

The BROAD study is a study of the Whole Food plant based diet: A randomized controlled trial (The Gold Standard of Studies) Outcome: The WFPB diet can be seen as an effective, safe option for weight loss and chronic disease risk and quality of life improvements. Key foods included whole grains, legumes, vegetables and fruits.No mandated exercise or calorie counting was implemented. The WFPB group had a self-reported increased quality of life, they decreased their medication and blood glucose and their cholesterol dropped. The plant-based group had left the 3-month study 19 pounds lighter, but at 6 months were down about 27 lbs. The BROAD study, however, lasted only 3 months, yet the plant-based group not only lost significant weight, they kept it off. This study ran from August 2014 to 2015 and was extended to 2017.

[@alexmirza5210]

Your bodyweight, muscle mass, age and physical activity must have influences on your personal daily amount. As well as genes, enzyme levels and gut health. A comprehensive coverage, well worth the time.

[@kimpulido9721]

This is the absolute best explanation of the basic biochemistry of macronutrients contained in the food we consume that I have ever seen!!!!This man is brilliant! Thank you for such simplified terms and analogies so this ridiculous debate and protein myth/ concern can finally come to an end… you nailed it🙏👊👌

[@BoidsOfDoom]

You'd possibly enjoy the Peter Attia interview on YT with Don Lyman, a research scientist whose been studying dietary protein at U of Illinois for 40 years. His views about the current RDA are notably different than Gardner. Gardner, arguably, oversimplifies his statement to make clear and punchy points - which we can all appreciate - but ignores many other factors seemingly to poke fun at gym bros and higher protein diets. More protein - relative to a stable caloric intake - would do the average American very good.

[@shamewizard3187]

When someone can explain a complex subject almost childishly simple, that is when you know he/she understands the matter.

[@MineTitanDragon]

It's really not and it's blatently obvious that he either hasn't kept up with the research or is so biased (in favour of a pure plant based diet) that he willingly chooses to ignore alot of studies.

[@mts7274]

@@shamewizard3187 This 50 minutes covering macro nutrients and biochemistry was anything but "almost childishly simple". There is still too much left open to interpretation, and that is why people still struggle with weight loss, or finding that 'zone' of optimal health.

[@mts7274]

@@MineTitanDragon Omnivores have thrived on mostly plant-based [with some animal proteins] diets for millions of years. Think of some of the most powerful mammals on the planet, and look at their food sources. Apes/gorillas are a perfect example, but bears, raccoons, etc...

[@stereosympathy]

Such an interesting topic! I’m about 1/4 the way through Herman Pontzer’s book, Burn and it’s blowing my mind on how the body works from a physiological nutrient standpoint. Great interview!

[@Nepse_G]

Whats the name of the book?

[@soofitnsexy]

@@Nepse_G we cant tell you that

[@nonickch]

Preamble: I eat fruits/veggies, legumes and meat in prodigious amounts to hit my macros for many years now. Let's run some calculations if I tried to get my daily protein ONLY from legumes. I'm a 90kg male, on a 0.5% bg cut per week, which puts my calorie target at about 2100 kcals/day. My "definitely safe for a cut" target for protein is 90*2=180g of protein and the "eh, you're getting low" is 90*1.6= 144g. So 144-190g of protein in 2100kcal. Running the numbers with beans: 347kcal for for 21g of protein. So in order to get my top target I need to eat 180/21*347=2.974 kcal a day. This is already 800+ kcal over my target. My low target is 144/21*347=2379kcal, which is STILL over my calorie target. Did I mention 0.5%/week is considered a low number? People cut with 1% all the time. My combination of fruits/veggies/legumes on a daily basis gets my carbs/fiber in order while getting some protein in (unlike bread/pasta). But in order to get both calorie and protein targets right, I need a relatively clean source of protein. And that is for me chicken and other lean cuts of meat/fish. Low-fat greek yogurt, some eggs etc. No, getting fed protein powder is not a viable option long-term or on a cut.

[@ayangangopadhyay8775]

Christopher Gardner has been my all time favourite, for the fact that he explains everything so lucidly and also Jonathan and Zoe is doing amazing podcasts with the bestest minds possible ...

[@yakovduque8077]

My mother is a vegan (shes been a vegan for many years and knows the ins and outs) and I have subscribed to the mixing of grains and veggies for a complete amino acid profile to find out for myself. This are the results I got after a few months: I found myself hungry all the time, eating large quantities of food many times a day, raging from 4 to 7 times, and still not feeling satiated even though my stomach was stretched out from all the food, to finally after a over a month or two I stated experiencing connecting tissue injuries on my knees and elbows, excessive muscle soreness, and a few muscle partial tears ( I play volleyball, mountain bike, and work out) never had that happening on a balanced omnivore diet. once I went back to a balanced diet eating a combination of all sorts of things including veggies, dairy, meats, poultry, eggs some grains , etc.. those ailments went away slowly almost at the same rate it took them to manifest while on a vegan/vegetarian diet. Just sharing my experience (now I started consuming whey protein daily as well)

[@greuju]

Yeah I'd say essentially no one can eat that kind of diet and have optimal health. Most people just get used to it and some are more resilient to that much plant material. I had a 200-300 lb vegan couple as roommates that would always talk crap about the meat I ate. 😂 The big issue with a lot of this, most of these scientists haven't reached close to their ideal body composition. So they don't even know what they're talking about.

[@greuju]

I could handle protein powder that was mixed, all plant. Forgot what it's called. Sun warrior? But if I tried to get it from the actual food it was a nightmare.

[@samreh6156]

Humans are omnivores. Some need more and others less animal protein. I eat a little bit of chicken, cheese, and some sardines every now and then. Otherwise I eat a wide variety of plant food and work out regularly.

[@greuju]

@@samreh6156 sardines are one of the best foods I still can't eat. 😭

[@nomandad2000]

@@greuju Look up “vegan athletes” “vegan bodybuilders” “vegan centarians”. This is nothing new.

[@tim1398]

As he mentions @33:40 the "essential" amino acids are required in specific ratios - if your protein source doesn't have the ratio then the ones that are above the ratio will be converted and burned. Studies have indicated that even for the best protein source (whole eggs) only 50% is converted to tissue, which falls to 33% for red meat, and only about 17% for whey, soy, and egg white - so if you want to gain 5lbs of muscle you may need several times that amount of protein. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5PJq3Zom7OWr8k

[@dawncramer6282]

Thank you, Prof. Gardner. Your talk was eye-opening! It's plant based nutrition for me from now on. Bless you.

[@RhaniYago]

Wow, I am so grateful for this podcast. I have been living on a vegan diet for nearly 9 months now (apart from once every two or three weeks the odd can of fish which are still stored in my pantry ) and started worrying about getting to little protein, as I am increasing my exercises bit by bit. I am 65, but I guess it is never too late to get fitter. And especially those promoting a carnivore diet constantly talk about vegans' protein deficiencies. So I will continue to mix my grains and beans and grow more muscles that way. :))

[@achecase]

That's great, but surely you'll do more research than this podcast.

[@davidgardell]

Yeah, there is zero worries about protein on a vegan diet. I stopped eating meat in 97 and went vegan in 2005. I have never worried about protein even once.

[@beautyandthebudget3642]

Everyone should test for the BC01 gene mutation which 30% of the population have which means up to 70% less able to convert beta carotene to retinol! Also methylation issues like MTHFR (as you cannot cope with synthetic B Vitamins)

[@michigan1085]

@@beautyandthebudget3642 thank you for this!

[@nizahe2731]

@@beautyandthebudget3642 What?

[@robertalenrichter]

He made sure to talk about hormones in meat (banned in the EU), but somehow forgot to mention that conventional agriculture soaks vegetables in pesticides. This is such a transparent attempt to manipulate behaviour.

[@phizzyd0872]

And what do you think cattle eat? Pesticide laden feed such as soy and corn plus hormones. You get a worse shot eating meat because they accumulate in their bodies

[@kiss4luna]

yeah, it's very funny hearing he saying that. in my country, some of the problem of eating vegetables are people get poisoned by pesticides. it's just extremely difficulty to get rid of plant-eating bugs without using pesticides.

[@rumble1925]

@@kiss4luna vegetables have a bunch of naturally occurring pesticides. In fact tens of thousands more, so you will get cancer either way lol

[@afghanica]

BEEF BOT SEZ HWUT!?

[@QuanticLifeScience]

Great podcats, and a humble guest who has a very balanced perspective on health. and nutrition.

[@gyurbanvikrenc8267]

This might look valid on paper and in lab experiments, but certainly is not in real life. I lift since I was 14 and for the first 20 years (so until I was 34) I did not take any supplements, just real food. I had a protein rich diet though and I surely had a good appetite. Never got heavier than 80-82 kg. At 34 I started taking 1-3 cups/day of whey and casein protein over my regular diet because I calculated how much protein I ate and most of the time it did not reach the recommended 160g based on my goal weight. And then boom, I got up to 90kg in a year and in top of that I got a bit leaner. No wonder that guys over 100-120kg eat over 200-220g a day. You gotta maintain that mass somehow and I think a lot of the protein you eat is actually burned for energy. If the zoot suit guys were twigboys who burned all the protein they ate this nitrogen in and out balance gives such a huge bias on recommended protein intake like the distance from here to the Moon. That experiment doesn't tell anything about what happens with the protein after they ingested it and I think its a huge mistake. Ronnie Coleman ate nearly 3 kg of chicken breasts a day and he was 'only' 135kg. He surely knew from his own experience very well how much protein he exactly needed to eat, because his body fat was below 1%. You can't do that if you overeat by a gram.

[@R.R.Brahma]

It is his experience but not science. So we can't follow him.

[@gyurbanvikrenc8267]

@@R.R.Brahma LOL you say this as if science produced nothing but undeniable facts and the experience of 80 years of bodybuilding was nothing (not to mention that bodybuilding has a lot of scientific background back up by studies and evidence as well). But you can trust whatever you want of course, it's your life.

[@recumbentrocks2929]

To be fair you are looking at this from a super fit body builders perspective. Most of us are just normal people who just want to be healthy and not over weight.

[@gyurbanvikrenc8267]

@@recumbentrocks2929 Not necessarily a bodybuilders perspective, I used that as an example of one of the extremes (and the twigboy as the other extreme end of the spectrum). I'm just pointing out the flaws in this simplistic thinking, which suggests that people don't need to change their diet (and their lifestyle) to eat 'enough' protein, while generally people (especially in the US) eat too much carbs, too little protein, and from the latter not enough variety.

[@paulb8251]

Ronnie Coleman wasn’t below 1% BF lol..

[@dreamingoftacos4388]

FINALLY!!! Information that comes from a reliable source. No more protein bars or shakes for me

[@jmc8076]

Vegan MDs have been saying this for decades incl one who is a nutritional scientist. He even avoided the term vegan.

[@dreamingoftacos4388]

@Majestic Artimus yes, exactly. I agree

[@dreamingoftacos4388]

@@jmc8076 hello! I forgot I heard Dr. Gregor say that plants and beans provide plenty of protein and The Game Changers documentary shows vegan bodybuilders and athletes who have plenty of muscle. I try to eat vegan most days

[@CursiveDragon]

​@@dreamingoftacos4388 There is a difference between plant protein vs animal protein. I think that's great you go vegan most days. I regret not going vegan the decades ago.

[@martinbrandom2654]

Why is it reliable it's science?

[@gracemarsh9707]

Everybody's protien need is different. Personally, as I age, I have increase mine

[@rumble1925]

Exactly right ❤❤

[@sgill4833]

I had severe back pain which didn't get somewhat better until I started taking collagen.

[@manymoms920]

I’m in the uk, female and I’ve started to lift weights to combat muscle loss. I tracked my macros very accurately and my protein intake was very low. I think that in the US folks eat more protein than the uk. I personally think that the US diet stats are different from the UK. I aim for 1g of protein per kg of target body weight. I have to focus on this to achieve it. So whilst I love this Prof, I think some women in the uk are not in these US example group.

[@ClayMey]

Europe as well.

[@DarkDonnieMarco]

Totally agree, I lift four times a week. I recently increased my protein intake to at least 100g a day through supplementation with whey isolate. The difference in my body shape in a matter of weeks after having lifted consistently for 2 years is nothing short of ridiculous. I have also noticed a huge reduction in fatigue.

[@oracla]

He is simplifying metabolism. It's not only about input and output. Most (chemical) reaction in living matter are in a certain equilibrium. What this means is that eating a surplus of protein shifts this equilibrium in favor of growing muscles. It improves the speed at which muscle grows. Even if not all protein is converted to muscle. This has been broadly proved in many studies in the last few years and results are very conclusive. Of course there are always some side effects, but in this case they don't seem to be really harmful if you don't overdo it. Also, plant protein is NOT the same as animal protein. The composition of "letters" is vastly different. Needless to say, animal sources have a more useful composition for human needs. In order to get the same benefit, you need to eat a larger amount of plant protein and to optimize, you need to make very specific combinations of food. If you eat whole foods, this problem is even worse. You would have to eat a lot of plant food, and with that comes a lot of calories from starches and fats. Eating lean meats (or egg whites or whey protein) gets you all the protein with far fewer calories. All in all, too much simplification is not ideal.

[@pureabsolute4618]

Good comment - 12% protein means you have to spend 88% of the carbs / fat that you ate with it. I think I heard that animal protein is twice as available, which means even without eating 'lean' sources you will still do twice as well protein / total calorie as with plants. I suspect people in good metabolic order will have no problem with the plant ratio. But for people that have to reverse their decline the extra carbs / fat might be too much to handle.

[@BiniBoeva]

From my experience, protein has huge impact on my weight loss journey, because it increases satiety and it simply takes more energy for the body to absorb it. The so called thermic effect of food is higher with protein. Also, resistance training and sufficient protein intake helps to keep the lean muscle mass when losing weight. @zoe why don't you also invite Layne Norton to speak about protein? I am sure he has a lot to say backed by science and research.

[@hugopottisch8002]

Protein might increase satiety compared to fiberless fats or fiberless processed carbs but not compared to whole plants such as whole grains, beans, whole fruits, greens, nuts and seeds or whole tubers (with the skin).

[@BiniBoeva]

@@hugopottisch8002 Not at all. Nuts and whole grains for example, don't make me full at all. Beans and legumes have a lot of fiber and more protein, but still the satiaty effect is not the same as with animal protein. Fruit doesn't make me full at all either, unless there's a source of protein I consume together with it. Not sure if all people are like that, maybe some feel OK with just plant-based food. For me, the best hunger-crushing combo is animal protein+high fiber carb+veg/fruit.

[@hugopottisch8002]

@@BiniBoeva Whole grains like rye have even more fiber than beans. Dates have more fiber than beans per calorie too :)

[@BiniBoeva]

@@hugopottisch8002 Good to know:) Anyways, I am not a fan of this vid, the information in it is misleading and incomplete.

[@oakbellUK]

@@BiniBoeva Please explain. The vid fits the facts as I have known them for 50 yrs and as is taught in school science classes.

[@erdekesnem7767]

This is very insightful interview, thanks! I'd have a question regarding digestion: what is the efficiency that you can actually extract the amino acids from food? One argument I often hear is that even though plants do contain protein, you cannot utilize 100% of it, while for animal protein, this efficiency is much closer to 100%. Is this true?

[@gruber1650]

I'm trying to lose weight and tried the old slimming world red and green days, when eating meat eggs and stir fried veg I was always under 2000 calories a day, on green carb days I could eat 4000 and still be starving, I could feel the weight gain on green days , I'm going to stick to low carb from now on with green veg, the professor failed to address that you eat to satiety and it's a lot less calories when you include meat, Zoe should get Ted Naiman on.