evo Track Battle: Renault Megane 265 Trophy v Subaru BRZ

It's Subaru BRZ versus Renaultsport Megane 265 Trophy, rear-drive versus
front-drive, in our latest evo track test video. Evo's Editor sits in with Editor-at-large John Barker as they take to the evo track. Who's your money on blue or yellow?

[@elgi131]

The people at Renault Sport just don't mess around with the RS models. I've driven the Clio RS R27 model, and the handling and level of grip through corners is just unbelievable.

[@sammaes]

A lot of frustration because the mégane RS isn't for sale in the US I think.

[@Speedwelltuning]

Who cares about America

[@samphillips3405]

Toyota fan boys can't take it :') The fact is that the Megane is built for the track and the GT86 isn't, and it has more horsepower, get over it and stop crying..

[@Texarmageddon]

Jimmy Joji typical?? Hell even the Genesis coupe had aftermarket parts when it released... Cute story bro.. but using the aftermarket for a cheap sports coupe car is redundant and pointless.

[@matusknives]

I don’t understand the fuss either AND I am going to get GT86 with AT actually. I know MT is faster. What I find less then logical here is that they did not put a proper tires in the BRZ. It would still loose, but it would be much more track-able. Nobody is really going to track it with those Prius-type tires.

[@kpsig]

@@matusknives Better tires , yes. Wider , only slightly but keep the same profile. Otherwise the car feels even slower

[@den_525]

Regardless whether its auto or manual, the RS is just heads and shoulders better than the 86/brz is every aspect. Everytime I see an 86/BRZ around I always feel sorry for those who ordered one from all the hype. Because in reality its just not a good car.

[@JimmyChannel2]

Well you don't need to feel sorry for those Toyobaru owners because they made the right choice. I guess you haven't driven one yet.

[@den_525]

JimmyChannel2 Drove one for a week as a complimentary car... didn't find it very complimentary, it's gutless and boring. See so many people in their 86/BRZ "trying" to race people off the lights, its the funniest thing.

[@amapolishplummer]

den525 Yeah and I always see RS's drag race Veyrons ALL THE TIME! Mate don't bullshit....

[@den_525]

amapolishplummer its funny when you see a hyundai i30s beat the 86 tho.

[@amapolishplummer]

den525 Yeah I ALWAYS see GT-86's get beat by a Dacia Sandero diesel....

[@netmatrix75]

Almost everyone here cannot accept the fact that the Megane is simply a better real world car than the GT86! Its a fact! Its proven in many time trials, track races and illegal street races! Face it guys. It is probably the best hatch from out of the box money can buy right now. The GT86 just isn't. And many who support GT86/ BRZ are actually for nostalgia reasons. GT86/ BRZ is underpowered and shod with skate tires. It needs a turbo and better tires. It would be another beast altogether. If they do that, they could not sell it to you cheap like you expected it to be. Then there would be comparisons with the Supra. Remember when toyota made Supra, Celica, Trueno/ Levin, they were making history. Nowdays they are making people movers. LFA stinks with tech, but its not worthwhile the hype. Even its creator died in one. Not doing a good job there. All in all Toyota forgot how to build cars. With new found wealth they hired marketeers to hype everyone into believing this is better. NO! Look at Renault. They made crap cars up till mid 2000 on exception for 5 and Clio along the way. Look 5 years back, something changed. Their cars are unlike anything on the road. Their cars actually work. They look great. The GT86/ BRZ next to it is.... Meh.

[@Silidons91]

stupidest review ever. the renault costs $47k for one (BRZ limited is $28k) and you can just see that this guy does not know how to drive a RWD car. it is much easier for an average driver to be quicker around a track with a FWD car because you feel more confident through the corners because you don't know what you're doing...

[@Jarolion]

Where are you getting this pricing? you cant simply convert 1 cars price in another country to us currency and then compare the two... in the UK these 2 cars are priced evenly, both around 26k, or 28k if you get the limited version in the BRZ and the cup chassis on the Renault. I don't understand how people think a manual would change the times by 5 seconds either but okay... Some people are just clearly biased.

[@PyroParatus]

the renault megane rs costs NEW about 25k and if its used just 20k and even cheaper. Theres now renault that costs this much. Just the koleos maybe

[@miguelitolitolito]

honestly i liked the video. it gave me great insight to the way both cars handle because of the full laps and good in-car camera angles.

[@abi_wasabi.]

Well, you've made a very good point. With the Megane being an established enthusiast hot hatch that delivers they may not have anything to prove, but I guess it wouldn't hurt for them to make sure they continue generating sales. This is a brand new entry to the market that's going to be attracting buyers from their dealerships. I may have reached too far with a bought review on behalf of Renault, but its plausible. I just don't understand how they dislike the car so much. Auto or not.

[@Blakeoffire]

Great vid guys - nice to see Mr. Barker behind the wheel in one of them! Was sort-of expecting the Megane to be more thrilling after everything I've read about it in the evo pages... Shame about the BRZ not really living up to its fanfare on the track though... I'm more curious about how a manual version will cope on the roads. Cheers the vid ;)

[@lophilip]

I can appreciate the journalist and driver being honest and not fall into the hype.

[@DDDareiosz]

manual vs. flappy- paddle gearbox... what would be real comparison? they have to put same sized backseats to the brz instead of the two shelves too?

[@happydappyman]

whats with the lap timer at the bottom of the screen?

[@surruk]

nice work on the audio there EVO, any chance of subs for what was said in the BRZ? because i couldn't hear a thing.

[@MrAnders1976]

Yes I was a bit surprised to hear about the comments on the BRZ. THey have been praised buy many motor magazines as being a basic super balanced rear wheel drive, with a lot of connection through the steering wheel. With a turbo and maybe 65 more horses and a slight adjustement to the supspension with the added power i think the Gt86/BRZ could reallly run head to head with a lot of super cars..

[@adam77456]

a Renault Diesel van of some sort would have been a fairer track battle for the brz

[@antcleigh]

Try watching the video at 0:41 and 2:16 This has an identical external shot of both cars coming off tower corner into the straight. The body roll in the BRZ is clearly more significant and in the time taken for the BRZ to sort itself out the Megane is already accelerating away. Its the same situation on most of the corners. The Megane is faster through, quicker on the exit due to the better suspension, and faster in the straight.

[@bobdevo]

1. It is a single clutch, so it's not as quick as a manual; but more importantly 2. the auto trans has both 5th and 6th gears as overdrive (which explains superior mileage for auto), the manual has a 6-speed close ratio trans set up to keep the engine in the power band, with only 6th as an overdrive gear.

[@antcleigh]

To satisfy my curiosity can you point out or link to the reviews around the rest of the world that rate the GT86/BRZ above the Megane on the track or on the twisties? i.e that disagrees with the EVO comparison.

[@antcleigh]

Yes, thats what I said, they got an automatic car from Subaru for their tests. I certainly didnt imply the tests used different cars and I am not sure why anybody might have assumed that. I just checked the weights. Subaru web site, 1202kg manual (1224kg Auto), Renault website 1320kg. The Renault is without driver, it isnt clear if the brz is or isn't. So its either 118kg or 193kg assuming 75kg for the driver.

[@eyalschnider]

is the megane good at drifting?

[@DJKrissJ]

Can you give a specific example?

[@antcleigh]

The Megane was stock, no mods. It costs the same as the stock BRZ therefore its a fair review. FYI The Megane is 37 secs faster than the manual GT86 on the Nurburgring.

[@KagetsukiRei]

Because the paddles are just controls for the sequential "manual mode" in the AT version. It's not like it has a clutch and it also rev matches and will delay shifts if you are too far from a power band. In otherwords it is absolutely not an MT and doesn't give you near the type of control you'd want on a track to do things like drop down into a lower gear for a quick burst of torque to kick the back out.

[@212Jerry]

The Mégane 265 Trophy cost around $37,000 while the BRZ Limited is about $27,500. That is quite a difference, plus, there is only 50 Mégane 265 Trophy units per country.

[@Miggy2j]

I think a manual BRZ vs a Clio cup would of been a much fairer comparison.

[@ottokern100]

I AM SUPRISED! We seem to have lots of BRZ drivers here as they all seem to defend the car they own!!!!

[@antcleigh]

I live in UK, but have driven 20,000 miles in USA over last 7/8 years, mostly mid west. Driving is very different in the USA than UK. US corners are easier to line up, good visibility on the entrance and exit, and generally much less traffic especially county/side roads. In the UK overtaking is more frequent, riskier (poor sight lines, short straights, narrower roads) and less opportunities. Torque is much more important for that reason and a UK mag would have much more issue with lack of torque

[@Red_Bearded_Dad]

It has an automatic that has paddle shifters. Make no mistake, this was an automatic. I think the results might have been slightly better if he had a true manual transmission or if they offered a dual-clutch automated manual transmission. At the end of the test, you can see him shift the AUTOMATIC into Park.

[@antcleigh]

Its a comparitive test. The criticisms need to be taken in context of the car its up against. The Megane, like the BRZ, is based around handling rather than power. On track and in comparison tests it regularly comes out on top against cars with +50 more bhp. It is the hardest comparison for the BRZ because the Megane is strong where the BRZ is strong (handling) and also carries more power and torque, for the same price (UK). No agenda just a review.

[@RaskVousSalue]

First, the Megane RS isn't understeery, it's neutral. It's super easy to make the back end slide, the difference is that it won't slide when you don't want it to. And in europe, we have a lot of small "rally-like" backroads, and there you have WAY more fun in a front wheel drive car.

[@allyc85]

can you turn that fooking beep off in the french thing?

[@antcleigh]

Upgrade it yes.IMO first improvement in any car (if possible) is the suspension/handling. I bought the R.S. Megane because its handling and suspension was so good more than for the power output.

[@antcleigh]

The magazine is UK based In the UK the price is the about the same for the BRZ vs the 265 Cup

[@antcleigh]

If you read the magazine EVO have had good expectations of the BRZ from the start. I think they started to get fed up with the time taken from prototype to production, difficulties getting unsupervised access to the car from Subaru, the fact Subaru gave them an Auto, not the manual they wanted, and overall the car not meeting their (probably unrealistic) expectations. This has coloured their view, and they have overstated some reasonable issues with what is a totally new car.

[@Drinapropriatetouch]

Ah, I wasn't sure with the sideways movement. In any case it begs the question to evotv, why test the auto version of the car? and why expect it to be comparable to the megane?

[@angrybirdWade]

Those Toyota & Megane cars was so cool but I really love to buy those cars Mr. EVO

[@mil6es]

1.Bedford is a power track 2.65bhp difference 3.BRZ is a semi-auto not a level playing field but still both cars are amazing but a manual BRZ with RWD gets my vote everyday

[@transworld01]

I'd like to see this test with an 86 too see if the softer front end makes a difference.

[@danyi2170]

how come?

[@Rooooko]

This renualt is kicking the ass of every track battles in all the videos. It keeps shocking every body every pro racing driver. Its the best am buying it

[@J4m3z1]

Rather have a car that I can have fun with on a daily basis than a track certified car. The GT86/BRZ is not a track car it's a road car. That's the beauty of it. It's fun on real roads.

[@antcleigh]

In the UK they are the SAME list price, that was the point of comparing them. Renault are also known for high discounting, so the price you pay for the Megane will be £2 - 3k less than the BRZ (although you will likely make that back on higher depreciation)

[@bobdevo]

No - it is NOT a paddleshift manual. It is the 8-speed auto trans from Lexus (minus 2 gears) with both 5 and 6 as overdrives. It can be run fully automatic or thru paddle shifters.

[@antcleigh]

Brilliant :-) The BRZ has introduced a whole new language to performance driving. Slow isn't slow anymore, it's 'grace under pressure' Fast isn't fast, it's 'clutch for dear life'

[@NFox6]

why are you comparing the automatic brz to the manual megane?

[@MrChristopherTurpin]

Agree with everything said already - what is to be gained by putting a more powerful turbo manual up against a less powerful Auto NA? Thanks for a Great review Evo!

[@lz3390]

@antcleigh well, there's still the problem of the megane not being available in the US, where I live. Also, I don't think ~$25K for an entry level sports car is too expensive at all. I think it's rather competitively priced considering it's handling. Also, there will be a huge amount of aftermarket performance parts that will help that power figure.

[@TheStigHCE09]

Mechanically, stiffer front springs and damper valving is the only difference between the BRZ and 86. Makes the BRZ less tail-happy but with sharper turn-in, though it's very slight. I wasn't surprised to see that the Megané was quicker round the track but the comments at the end of the BRZ lap had me seriously scratching my head. A manual BRZ should have been on the cards for a kickoff, but "unbalanced" is the one word I would say LEAST describes the BRZ.

[@ComaComaComaComaComaChameleon]

EVO is proud to present the next battle: Bull vs. Horse. They both have 4 legs and a tail... and that's about it.

[@kabrandres]

I strongly suggest that fans of the BRZ google Semi-automatic transmission otherwise known as flappy paddle gearbox. It is quite clear that the Megane RS 265 is far superior.

[@ediptafiloski253]

Andrés Kristjánsson The Clio RS with 200HP is also better than the Subaru

[@Tenktory]

The point is that these two cars cost similar money. Some people claim that BRZ/GT86 has to be superior to Megane or other hot-hatches because it was designed form the scratch as a sports car, it has RWD, etc. So they've checked this claim and these people seem to be unhappy now.

[@nunobandeira1811]

This comparison makes sense because these are 2 2+2 coupes with sporty pretensions and they go for about the same money. Would have been nice to make a proper comparison though (road+track) and not just a laptime shootout. The Megane has 32% more power, loads more torque, and sticky tyres it was always obvious it would be much faster around a track. The decision is do you just want a vulgar Renault hatch that has been hotted up by getting a powerful engine and the magic R.S. do to suspension and handling and is a track weapon or do you want a bespoke RWD sports car that is a much rarer sight on the streets and is always fun to drive even at moderate speeds and allows you to play with proper oversteer, not just the lift-off kind. I had a Clio 172 once, and now own a GT86 and was happy with both. If had gone for the Megane instead of the 86 I would probably be happy too, both are great cars! And was it so hard to find a manual BRZ/GT86??

[@antcleigh]

It was a little ambiguous if you are not familiar with the history of the M3. The power/weight/rubber/drive/cyls of the original M3 is very similar to that of the BRZ and John Barker was simply stating in his opinion the E30 M3 was a superior handling and faster car. As well as the Megane of course.

[@TetraRage]

Despite how slower the BRZ was, the semi automatic gearboxes nowadays are actually quicker than a standard manual. Some manufactures (Audi to name one) offer a choice of manual or semi-auto, on gear changes and higher speeds the autos are quicker.

[@adbramsay]

Just want to point this out that. The entire automotive journalism world is lauding this car (the BRZ) with praise, and they have all got it completely wrong except for these two geniuses. Right...

[@antcleigh]

The video is taken from a magazine article. The magazine is far more informative, and overall has a number of positives for the BRZ. The magazine also compares the Megane, BRZ, MX5 and 370z in a group test on the road. There are copies posted online if you search for the group test. They are well worth the read for any fan of the BRZ. If you read it you can judge what is fact, reasonable opinion or unfair criticism.

[@mikers73]

I wonder how the GT86 would be on the track considering the suspension is set differently out of the factory.

[@Lexolo999]

I am surprised by the comments by it not being controllable, since many other reviews of the BRZ/FRS/GT86 say that it/they are very neutral and controllable when the back steps out.

[@Turbosauce]

I noticed that he wasn't really taking the corners as fast as he probably could have gone in the brz. it looked like he was lifting in some sections where he didn't really need to.

[@Benjay1975]

Clio Sport Cup?

[@ariethekid]

From what I hear the suspension is the culprit in the BRZ. They tuned it differently than Toyota did with the GT86/FR-S and have very different handling characteristics. BRZ understeers more, FRS over steers more. I also noticed that the FRS seems to be getting much better press coverage and more positive reviews than the BRZ. That said, they need to have a more powerful version as well.

[@spade118]

EvoTV ... Why you no test BR-Z with an manual transmission?!

[@bobdevo]

Why in the world would they test a BRZ with automatic? Not only does the automatic increase the weight of the car, but one of the nicest things about the BRZ manual 6-speed is the close ratio transmission, which allows the car to stay in the power band. In the manual, 5th gear is one-to-one, only 6th gear is an overdrive. In the automatic, both 5th and 6th gear are overdrive, which increases the fuel economy, but leaves you with 4 widely spaced gears in the automatic.

[@ghepardogts]

As an EVO subscriber, I want to hear from the driver. Not the terrified one in the passenger seat.

[@ErikMartijn]

Have you read the article? he is talking about the E30 M3, not the E92.

[@bobdevo]

No - the transmission is a single clutch automatic with manual shifters. But it is NOT a double-clutch lightning shift paddle shifter. Plus, the automatic weighs more, and has two overdrive gears (5th and 6th) so the remaining 4 gears are more widely spaced and less sporting than the 6-speed close ratio manual.

[@5732noel]

Turbo vs non turbo! What was the point???

[@cedrac18]

Don't have plenty of 200HP FWD hot hatches they could of compared it to? why did they a turbo one with 65 more HP?

[@radar3699]

I understand that but what i mean is that you cannot do things like steering with the throttle and you don't get the same sensation when coming out of a corner. It's a matter of personal preference but the vast majority of driving enthusiasts will always pick RWD or 4WD/AWD, over FWD.

[@kissbela12]

Probably it is surprising, but there are countries outside US. EVO is located in one of them, named United Kingdom. These two cars are similarly priced there.

[@mavezy]

Megane 265 Trophy is a brilliant car, good job again Renault.

[@antcleigh]

Subaru chose the automatic for the test, not EVO, who stated clearly it was not their choice. And yes, Chris's review is good, like all the reviewers who got restricted to the absolute mimimum amount of time with the car.

[@zero00-100]

What happened to the 370Z?

[@antcleigh]

I have a 265 Cup, which is essentially the same specification as the 265 Trophy (chassis, power, weight, LSD, etc) I can assure you it is not purely a 'stripped out' or 'track day special' and is a perfectly capable everyday car. Within 2/3 years I expect there will be a pure track special Megane 3 and unless the fundamentals of the BRZ are tackled (to expensive, to heavy, to little power) it will remain some way off the pace

[@paskowitz]

With respect to the driver, no M3 has ever been statistically similar to the BRZ other than the E30. Weight, power, tire width, etc. So I do not get the drivers comments at the end. Second, manual vs auto... hmmm. Third, power circuit with a 30% power disparity. Fourth, the BRZ could have been smoother and I think the driver knows that. He was just not comfortable with the car. Which is valid.

[@UberManlyPirate]

its not overpriced, seeing how toyota/subaru have worked on the chassis, this is really an amazing deal!

[@rev2xs]

So? What good does 300+HP do with a LIVE AXLE rear end and in a car that is known to handle slight worse than a small truck? The HP in this case has nothing to do with it i'm afraid.

[@SoloPr0ductions]

me too :( would be nice, perhaps next year. Only problem is, if they do put a turbo, it'll make the car so much more expensive lol

[@mvanliessum]

Helmet?? on a track?

[@antcleigh]

Based on RS catalogue spec the 265 is 120kg heavier. I accept the brz is quite light, my comment was more that for £25k and only 200hp it needed to be more like 1050kg. Just finished reading the EVO mag this video is based on. It has a 1000 mile drive, group test, test vs '97 Impreza as well as the above track test. It's a pretty fair review imo and not all critical. Also the AUTO was not EVO's idea and not what they wanted. It was what they got from Subaru, which they were p*****d about.

[@PumpkinSpicedShart]

Truer words have never been spoken

[@antcleigh]

They got to drive it over a number of days, 1000miles through France, group test on B roads in Wales and a track test. Much more time to evaluate the car properly than most journalists have had. They also compared it to the best cars for the same money you can buy in the UK. It was good, a generally positive review, but in comparison, not as good as the best of the competition. Let down by handling thats not as good as the FWD Megane, and a lack of power on the mountain roads in the group test.

[@patrickilao5761]

Why did they use and Automatic version of the BR-Z, and not even mention it. I don't know if they know but I don't think it's an automated manual.

[@rousseau327]

I think the brz actually is available in semi auto, just not the dual clutch kind. Even if it shifts faster, the point of having a manual/semiauto is so you have control over what gear you're in at what rpm etc etc. you just don't have that kind of control in a regular automatic.

[@RTree613]

why didnt they give them the 6spd? i didn't even know they were making an auto version of the BRZ

[@neogeon]

It *is* an auto, it's a normal torque converter automatic, it just has the paddle shifts so you can play race car since you can't drive a proper manual transmission. Yes, I know clutch-type semi-auto transmissions exist, but the BRZ does not have that option.

[@TurboLag23]

I agree, even though I am partial to Subaru given my background in them, and my preference for AWD or RWD over FWD. Although everything said, I don't understand why they go out of their way to point out that the 265 hp Renault was faster and had more power, as if they were discovering something new. Seems kind of obvious. I'm just gonna ignore these BRZ comparison tests until a BRZ STI comes out. Then we'll see the BRZ's potential.

[@EatmyDust1311]

Automatic BRZ has an open diff, manual has a limited slip diff. Time to do this again, properly.

[@nrotsos]

can you (all the experts below) explain me please how a sophisticated automatic gearbox in a sports car can be a disadvantage?? hove you ever tried an SMG or even a less sporty like DSG gearbox?? please try one and you will realize how much more effective it is....

[@CrapTennis]

Automatic trans vs. Manual trans? why not get a manual trans BRZ to compare?

[@Red_Bearded_Dad]

Why did they pick an automatic for the BRZ?????

[@antcleigh]

John Barker has driven a rear drive Audi R8 LMS in the Nurburgring 24 hour race I suspect he is not 'frightened of rear wheel drive cars' The BRZ time recorded in the video is only 3 secs slower than the 300bhp Subaru WRX STI and only 0.2 secs slower than the fastest E30 M3 on that circuit The time driven is not such a bad one, and certainly doesn't justify the nonsense posted about the driver.

[@krellxpl900]

The Megane is track focused car and the BRZ is a car that's built for having fun. That 2 completely different cars.

[@Schnorbitz]

Don't care about the verdict, I trust the Evo team, particularly John Barker. The production needs a bit more work though, couldn't hear what was being said inside the cars.

[@genatsvalle91]

EVO is comparing the BRZ to the "most exciting" (in their opinion) of the cars one can buy in the same price bracket in the UK... the BRZ was marketed as an affordable car for entertainment... so a comparison to hot hatches is justified... Also the specs of the car are similar to those of the E30 M3...which was quite a revolutionary performance car... so some enthusiasts tended to see the 86/BRZ as the 2nd coming of the E30... Im certain they reviewed for a while, and no one is an idiot here

[@Kraken2681994]

If he was clearly stating a modern day m3, maybe i missed it but i didnt hear hom specify engine size or model

[@kissbela12]

Sorry, not Autocar, it was Car Magazine. My mistake (I read both of them).

[@RadioMuse1]

I suppose that's all fine and good, but their criticisms of the BRZ directly contradict the praise it's getting elsewhere else; claiming that it felt "unbalanced" and "unpredictable" when those have been the main praises. Maybe it's meant "in comparison" but the whole attitude of the review certainly gives the feel that it was a setup from the very start. I'd love to drive a Megane, but I can't exactly afford to import one on the kind words of a few reviews when I can walk to a Subaru dealership

[@waclosh]

I think the manual gearbox version of brz would be faster. BTW did you hear about the difference in suspension setup between GT86 and BRZ?

[@sspope]

Well, at Motortrend, their test driver described its rear end as "lively". They may very well be refering to the same thing, only they have different opinions about it. Some cars are more predictable, but they're scary when their rear and gets loose, the BR-Z perhaps oversteer without much warning, but when it does, it's not scary at all and predictable in a way.