Cheddar Man DNA Secrets ~ with DR SELINA BRACE

[@conner13.c16]

Amazing interview, it blows my mind how in two decades we have been able to sequence ancient DNA to the extent of certifying that it truly comes from ancient times. Also the explanation of how those populations from ancient Britain survived even though they had this particular trait not so common at higher latitudes makes me wonder how complex (beautiful and elegant) is the evolution process and natural selection. Thank you Mark and Selina.

[@pjmoseley243]

alot of students but then she changed it to a couple of students??????????? in the same breath???????? then she said to done a PHd in her late 20s ealty 30s?????????????? I am very sceptical about everything she says. I dont believe a thing she concludes.the story has changed over the last 20 years 40,000 years ago the english were not here??? it sounds BS to me.

[@conner13.c16]

@@pjmoseley243 then don’t believe her, research for yourself. That is the beauty of sciences, you can do it on your own.

[@pjmoseley243]

@@conner13.c16 I dont have access to her detailed equipment and I dont have the skills. What I am saying is its very apt that the year in which the communist blm movement is publicised then this comes out, I find it unbelievable and I will not believe it. someone is jumping on the bandwagon.

[@conner13.c16]

@@pjmoseley243 oh now I get it, it is kind of obvious in the end. Now I realize that you truly do not have the skills.

[@pjmoseley243]

@@conner13.c16 exactly conner the story I heard is so different to the original conner. I am not a scientist I am just a mere mortal. Peace.

[@oakstrong1]

I stumbled on this video by accident I am casually interested in evolution, especially human one, and ancient & modern cultures anyway, but Dr Brace make the topic sound so interesting and as approachable as she is herself! She is the kind of educator that had she been my teacher I might have chosen to study some biology related science. I would definitely love to hear her talk about her other projects!

[@theonlymeaning]

I could repeat every word of your comment! I do wish I had teachers sparking my interest in science back when I thought English Lit would be my world! Long, long ago.

[@oakstrong1]

@@theonlymeaning I agree, some teachers spark interest and some kill any spark there might be. I had The highest grade possible when I left compulsory school but barely passed each class at the next. I tore my entire book into 1 inch squares because I hated the teacher so much and everything she represented! I regretted it 20 years later when I ended up studying for a medically related job... I could read about the genetics and inheritance of fruit flies online of course, but I prefer to read a physical book! I still have my French and psychology books, 40 years later, even though I was only mildly interested in French and recent leaps in research of psychology has evolved into a different beast! To be honest, I wish I would have kept my Russian language, geography maths and history books, too, even though sciences evolve and the interpretation of history changes with time - they would still be a refresher to build upon. And I would not have to pay for another book on Russian to support my language learning app.

[@amandajstar]

I love the information, but also, as a bonus, Dr Selina Brace seems so very delightful as a person.

[@kurtoogle4576]

Dr. Brace is so good at explaining this material! Really interesting! Thank you!

[@jesusexposed1848]

ur pic is 🤣

[@krisbelenky5512]

What an amazing woman. She can explain such complex matters in terms anyone can understand. Genetics are fascinating.

[@DORKSIDE616]

That's because she's acting.

[@allmightlionthunder5515]

We just say it got this and people well believe it lol i believe its fake and was part of an agenda ! .

[@iggie1439]

@@DORKSIDE616 Really, are you that condescending to mean that. AO

[@MikePhilbin1966]

Dear Evol-Soup, thanks for this... genius idea to interview her in her boat during the last lockdown, it has to be THE MOST RELAXED and HAPPIEST interview I've ever seen with this charming geneticist, and good luck sequencing THE CANNIBALS. :)

[@jamestodd2323]

Just wonderful. To be able to hear the actual DNA specialist for Chedder man should put any of the controversy about skin color to rest. Ancient humans and DNA is endlessly fascinating. Thank you.

[@togodamnus]

@Dan Baker I have a potentially silly question. If an individual is tanned from exposure to the sun would that at all be detectable in the DNA profile? Just wondering, i suspect not but had to ask so i can cease wondering. This is an open question for anyone with insights or experience in genome work. Its amazing to me. Thanks for reading!

[@jeuandavidjones]

@Dan Baker Surely, if your data/analysis contradicts this finding, it should be submitted to relevant academic/learned journals for peer review and all that. Debating on KZbin isn't where answers to important questions get resolved.

[@magnificent6668]

Not really. The same genes for skin color are in Asians, east Asians even. To say there's no difference between let's say, a Korean and a sub Saharan African in skin color is a lie.

[@togodamnus]

@John Osman Roger that, i guess there is no way to determine exposure to sun in genomic evidences. Even highly pigmented people are darkened via sunlight exposure. Interesting, thanks for feedback and input!

[@ddcc66]

@@togodamnus kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmK3koNnl8SLrK8

[@realityhelix564]

"Ancient Cannibal Expert" is one of those job descriptions that is probably a lot less exciting than it initially sounds. Probably not much more than looking at little bone fragments, but also, you get to tell people that's what your job is.

[@archibaldbagge1235]

and get plenty of chicks at parties.

[@tomjackson4374]

Gives a whole new meaning to you are what you eat.

[@idio-syncrasy]

Amazing person. Her students are lucky. Really interesting and a great communicator.

[@tmcb2000]

Ironic for Cheddar man to be lactose intolerant.

[@oakstrong1]

All cheese are generally lower in lactose than milk and hard cheeses contain almost no lactose so the Cheddar Man might well have been able to eat cheddar (especially the mature and extra mature ones) had it been invented. The longer the aging process, the less lactose a cheese contains. Most cheeses that have been aged for over nine months won't contain any at all!

[@TheShootist]

He got better.

[@cecil123]

They'll claim he preferred soy and almond milk

[@helenamcginty4920]

Shame your little joke got lost. But lactose tolerance is a minority aberration. I believe it is a relatively recent mutation but suggest you check.

[@tmcb2000]

@@helenamcginty4920 Yes, it was a little joke

[@3ducs]

Making cups out of skulls might just have been a practical matter. A handy cup for people who aren't firing clay pots.

[@casteretpollux]

@John J Kelly Very sad to say in modern times one soldier boasted of using part of s skull of a civilian victim for an ashtray.

[@casteretpollux]

@John J Kelly Sorry. It was a good joke you made and I enjoyed it. I like to think that our forebears were peaceful and neighbourly and I'm sure that the vast majority of the time they were.

[@forestdweller5581]

Yeah mate, and animal skulls just would not work as well as a nice rounded human skull. Not much in the way of naturally occurring containers either so it's a logical choice of material. They occur in the Magdalenian of France as well.

[@bobaldo2339]

I just want to point out that elevation above sea level is very important re the amount of UV rays people experience. You can live very far removed either N or S of the equator, but at higher elevations, and receive a very large amount of UV. I lived at 8,600 feet for 25 years in the US SW, and can tell you the UV was strong. Now think of the Tibetan Plateau at 15, ooo feet.

[@oakstrong1]

Snow and water also reflect a lot of UV rays. It is easy to get a sunburn on a skiing trip and so much faster on the boat or beach than sunbathing in the garden.

[@KristinaUSA-x5n]

Also a lot of UV in Southwestern New Mexico at 4000 to 10000 feet above sea level. I swam outside without sunscreen for 3 hours and got a third degree sunburn.

[@jamesdelk8926]

The man was before her ribzic Khan he anylized DNA before even her and found out Aryans were not white or Indo euruopeans they were swarthy dark haired but brown black to brunette and dark black man eyes and they were dark to black broad face etc he came before her he's an Indian black man

[@FreedomToRoam86]

@@jamesdelk8926she said eyes were blue. Interesting that change before skin color, as implies the recessive eye color gene in both parents when he was conceived. Evolution is endlessly interesting!

[@castirac]

Amazing Explanation of the genetic facts, even for an non-english-speaker. Thank you and Dr. Brace.

[@patrik421]

I know that Tasmanian aborigines lived there for 40K years and they were very dark skinned, even though Tasmania is in a temperate climate (a subarctic climate during the last Ice Age). Just like Cheddar Man and other WHGs, they had diets heavy in red meat and seafood. Would also be interesting to look for vitamin D enhancing genes in their DNA.

[@dreamerliteraryproductions9423]

Thanks for a great interview! I've watched this before, but had to come back for another viewing!

[@MikeHunt-c5p]

Cheddar man also carried the sheepshagging gene which has erroneously been attributed to the modern day Welsh R1bs

[@CrueMagnon]

The excitement that she has over her knowledge in her professional field makes this more intriguing to watch. Great job!

[@jean-pierredevent970]

Visiting Malta, I thought those who built those famous temples there, were probably very different in culture and mind set than present Europeans but these temples seem to young to be the work of Cheddar man like people.

[@robbiesadventurescom]

what a joy to watch Selina and her happy explnations and ways

[@Madmen604]

Imagine how pristine the earth, air and water was then.

[@scalabrineisgoat6010]

But if you had cancer you were truly fucked

[@tamsinwood2]

So enlightening. Great to learn new information

[@Egyptologist777]

On PCA Cheddar Man clusters with ancient and modern Europeans. He had nothing to do with "black Africans" genetically, anthropologically nor geographically. The idea that he was "black" was dismissed by the scientists themselves in a news article.

[@bricktwo5849]

Cheddar was not black african but he was black,a black european.

[@bricktwo5849]

Some folks don't use common sense.If the first people on earth were black africans(and they were) and some left to leave to other places like asia,,from egypt and the horn of africa.

[@bricktwo5849]

The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey is a 2002 book by Spencer Wells, an American geneticist and anthropologist, in which he uses techniques and theories of genetics and evolutionary biology to trace the geographical dispersal of early human migrations out of Africa. The book was made into a TV documentary in 2003.[1] Synopsis According to the recent single-origin hypothesis, human ancestors originated in Africa, and eventually made their way out to the rest of the world. Analysis of the Y chromosome is one of the methods used in tracing the history of early humans. Thirteen genetic markers on the Y-chromosome differentiate populations of human beings. It is believed, on the basis of genetic evidence, that all human beings in existence now descend from one single man who lived in Africa about 60,000 years ago.[2] The earliest groups of humans are believed to find their present-day descendants among the San people, a group that is now found in western southern Africa. The San are smaller than the Bantu. They have lighter skins, more tightly curled hair, and they share the epicanthal fold with the people of Central and South East Asia. Southern and eastern Africa are believed to originally have been populated by people akin to the San. Since that early time much of their range has been taken over by the Bantu. Skeletal remains of these ancestral people are found in Paleolithic sites in Somalia and Ethiopia. There are also peoples in east Africa today who speak substantially different languages that nevertheless share the archaic characteristics of the San language, with its distinctive repertoire of click and pop sounds. These are the only languages in the entire world that use these sounds in speech.

[@bricktwo5849]

The Journey of Man: As humans migrated out of Africa, they all carried a genetic marker on the Y chromosome known as M168 (Haplogroup CT (Y-DNA)).[3] The first wave of migration out of Africa stayed close to the oceans shores, tracing a band along the coastal areas of the Indian Ocean including parts of the Arabian Peninsula, the Middle East, the Indian subcontinent and into South East Asia, down into what is now Indonesia, and eventually reaching Australia. This branch of the human family developed a new marker M130 (Haplogroup C (Y-DNA)). This first wave appears to have left dark-skinned people along its path, including isolated groups of dark-skinned people in south east Asia such as the aboriginal population of the Andaman Islands (around 400 km off the west coast of Thailand), the Semang of Malaysia, and the Aeta of the Philippines.[4] The second wave of migration took a more northerly course, splitting somewhere in the area around what is now called Syria to sweep to interior Asia, where it split several more times in Central Asia, north of Afghanistan. The lineages that flowed into Central Asia carry M9 (Haplogroup K (Y-DNA)). Other markers were added after the migration paths went on in several different directions from Central Asia. From Central Asia, a small group migrated towards the northeast, following reindeer. These were the ancestors of Siberian groups such as the Chukchi people, a few of whom still live a nomadic lifestyle today. An even smaller group, estimated at no more than 20, crossed what is now the Bering Sea approximately 15,000 years ago during the last glacial period, and migrated into North America. They are the ancestors of Native Americans, and 800 years later, they had reached as far as South America. The African diaspora is believed to have begun some 50,000 years ago, long enough for many changes to have occurred in humans remaining in Africa. The genetic trends reported involve humans who left Africa, and their genetic histories. The diversity found outside of Africa may well have been accentuated since populations migrating to new hunting grounds would rarely have had individuals moving backwards into previously settled regions. But within Africa, isolation would have been geographically aided primarily by the Sahara Desert, leaving people in areas not separated by the desert to travel and migrate relatively freely.

[@bricktwo5849]

If some blacks could go to asia and overtime in pre-history become asians in dna and were black asiand then some blacks could and went to europe and became black europeans.

[@christrinder1255]

Very interesting information on Cheddar Man, and so much more! Thanks so much for posting!👏👏👏👍

[@alansdorsetfossils4028]

Selina I really enjoyed this program. You are able to tell this fascinating story in a way that regular people can understand. Many academics whilst extremely clever and I am sure you are, but many academics living in their bubble don't realise that they are talking a language that regular people like me cannot follow. So thank you again for communicating your fascinating research to a wide audience who share your curiosity for the past.

[@briananderson687]

Wow! Wonderful in-depth discussion that even I can understand -- thank you!

[@MD-st4wi]

So interesting. Thank you Dr Brace for sharing !

[@samanthajohnston9269]

According to the DNA site 23& Me my husband is related to Cheddar Man even though we live in USA. My husband has similar high cheekbones.

[@goombah226]

You had better be sleeping with one eye open. Chedder man was a cannibal.

[@jayisokok]

@@goombah226 Weren't we all cannibals at one time?? lol

[@Aberamentho2010]

Maam, most all europeans are related to Cheddar man.

[@boredatsea]

@@goombah226 The translation for the language used in PNG for eating people is "Long Pig", I know a burning body smells like roast pork and as Homer Simpson would say, Mmmmmm Pooorrrrkkkkk.

[@RustedCroaker]

@@Aberamentho2010 Tanks God no. I like my milk.

[@danieldonegan9826]

Thank you both for that unusually interesting interview/study BRILLIANT !. Dr Selina Brace you have the love of your subject in your DNA, i look forward to your next interview.

[@Kanasubigi896]

HIrisPlex-S is a flawed model. It doesn’t include MFSD12 alleles, which are the second strongest influence on dark/black skin today, often causing black skin when combined with other darkening alleles. Moreover, the model misclassifies people with intermediate skin tones 74% of the time. Evidence shows that intermediate-skinned individuals lacking the SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 "pale skin" alleles are always misclassified as dark or black, not pale. This is evident in HIrisPlex-S predictions for modern Asian populations like Oroqens, Uyghurs, and Southern Chinese, who are misclassified as ~50% black recent study on Mesolithic France (PNAS, 2023) used HIrisPlex-S to predict the skin pigmentation of five Western Hunter-Gatherers (WHGs). Interestingly, two were classified as having "pale" to "intermediate" skin-tones common among Europeans today-rather than the expected "dark" to "black." Similarly, the Cheddar Man study (Nature, 2019) predicted Loschbour Man had intermediate (olive/tanned) skin.

[@updownstate]

This is fantastic! This is what I wish my college years had been. Thank you for creating this video. I will be seeing you on others sites I hope. Wonderful, really wonderful.

[@ColdHawk]

Charming interview! Thanks to you both for the great content.

[@iankynaston-richards883]

Interesting plant growing on your front deck Selina!

[@petehoward6143]

Excellent interview. She explained some very complex science in a such a straight forward and engaging way.

[@AMissouriMule]

Absolutely excellent discussion.

[@daniel8728]

Brings back bad times of Covid lockdowns. People should never allow themselves to be manipulated like that again!

[@michaelpowell4202]

Thanks for the very interesting and informative interview. From the comments, it appears that the determination of Cheddar Man's skin color is quite controversial in the UK so I can understand the follow-up question on when lighter skin people arrived on the British Isles but I think it would have been worth discussing if his genome shed any information on where he originally came from and how long ago was that.

[@klnkat6600]

Do you have sources to inform that statement?

[@nickmiller76]

@Carl Ottersen Personally I was indifferent, as in neither 'happy' nor 'unhappy' about the original skin colour claim. What I was decidedly unhappy about though was that the claim that was so stridently pushed by the likes of the Guardian and the BBC was almost immediately revealed to be based on dubious evidence, ie evidence which in reality neither definitely proves nor definitely disproves the skin colour claim. This amounts to hijacking science for political ends, just like the Nazis did, and we should all regard that as deeply concerning. When a retraction of the original claim was issued a few days later, it was done in the most low-profile way possible and downplayed to the max by the mainstream media, which is shocking dishonesty.

[@avalondreaming1433]

Didn't something similar happen with King Tut?

[@celtspeaksgoth7251]

The whole skin colour thing was driven by UK Channel 4 who have an agenda, promoting that 'Out of Africa' theory which itself is being challenged by recent DNA analysis. The Ch4 documentary is on KZbin.

[@marmite400]

@@avalondreaming1433 Yup

[@johnharris7353]

Well she's quite fantastic isn't she! I would have " selected" her 10,000 years ago! Or today. Much thanks to Mark and Selena.

[@tomjohn8733]

Cannibalism was also about survival, as evident by modern people who’ve been stranded, like the Donner party, etc, very interesting study…

[@villhelm]

His skin was within the range for Europeans.

[@imwelshjesus]

Dumb racism?

[@FirstLast-rb5zj]

​@@imwelshjesus No. I'm somewhat closely related to Cheddar Man. I tested the tool they used on myself. I have had my own DNA fully sequenced. Standard services don't do that. The advantage is that I have my DNA available for any tool or test. Normally people only read the DNA required for a specific test. It darkened me. I also reproduced the experiment. They published the DNA. They appear to have put in the wrong input for rs6119471. This one is a quirk. You have to read the manual to spot it and they probably didn't. There is also a tool (R script) to fix the alignment which I don't think they used. That allele has a disproportionate effect particularly with the presence of the SCL alleles. His variants are now rare in Europe but are otherwise ubiquitous globally. Despite this they are falsely described as sub-Sahara African. When you correct for this then you get someone with a mild tan. Either moderate white to olive or otherwise mild such as similar to Chinese or American native. This is a very embarrassing problem for the NHM. Due to a data input error they black faced their exhibit. What is more shocking is that the tool is often used to predict what a suspect might look like based on DNA. This kind of mistake would turn a white suspect into a black one.

[@Aberamentho2010]

With exception to southern euros(Greeks, Italians etc etc that have mixed African ancestry), it doesn't look like any european I've seen.

[@mweskamppp]

Not like modern Europeans, no. It disappeared when they mixed with the other people who migrated to europe later. The early farmers who came from anatolia 9000 years ago and the steppe pastoralists who arrived in central europe about 4500 years ago. The very light north european color is less than 4000 years old by the way. Very interesting and surprising findings from late DNA research.

[@mweskamppp]

@@Aberamentho2010 You are wrong with mixed african ancestry. They just have more from the early european farmers than the north and east europeans.

[@markuk7935]

Thank you both. 👏

[@anikokariko1887]

Amazing information! Thank you so much for sharing this in such an understandable way! 👏👏

[@mariongranbruheim4090]

11:56 If the island was uninhabitable due to cold and other unpleasantnesses, it’s not hard to imagine that a klan might have faced the choice between starving to death or eating the deceased as a solution in an emergency.

[@MaryAnnNytowl]

Oh, thank you for this one! I only just now found it, so I'm late to the party, but it's still really cool!

[@steveconway1948]

Great talk thanks to you both.

[@rodneyshackelford7529]

Thank you. It was very good.

[@danmaster9183]

Did the cannibals cook their bretheren first or ate them raw?

[@jeromebarry1741]

It appears that the genetic selection pressure on skin color is both from sun exposure and from farming culture. I learned something.

[@kris2435]

Thanks for sharing to you both 👍

[@monaqualunque]

What kind of razor blades and shaving cream di Cheddar Man (or his barber) use?

[@FrshJurassicPrnceYA]

It’s nice to see someone who is passionate about her work talk about this subject. It’s unfortunate that those obsessed with identity politics won’t do their due diligence and research required to arrive at a sound and impartial conclusion.

[@robertgotschall1246]

The rivalry between the caves sounds remarkably like the Great Bone Wars between Cope and Marsh in the early 1800s of America. I read that the human genome is more diverse in Africa then for the rest us. Is this what Dr. Brace is talking about when she says that fewer SNPs were found in European populations as compared to African populations? This complexion algorithm sounds similar to AI programs used in reconstructing photographs from very low resolution images. Isn’t it true that high northern Asian populations (Inuit) still rely more heavily on diet for Vitamin D rather than sunlight? I’ve seen that even in darker skinned people, the young are generally lighter than their parents and grow darker with age. I wonder if lighter skin may have been taken as a sign of youth and sexually selected for by everyone, but was only successful in more northern latitudes, were it caused fewer skin problems.

[@helencoltart3483]

It would make sense that children would require more absorption of vitamin D from sunlight as thier diet was probably more restricted until adulthood. Remember our cows milk is fortified with vitamin D specifically to reach Children’s dietary needs

[@Teadon86]

"I read that the human genome is more diverse in Africa then for the rest us. Is this what Dr. Brace is talking about when she says that fewer SNPs were found in European populations as compared to African populations?" This is a common misunderstanding of what the data says about genetic diversity compared within and between demographic cohorts. What the data explains is that between two different demographic cohorts there is a wider genetic difference than between the members of each group but the genetic expression, SNPs, has a broader variation but are made up of the same genetic library. This is why two individuals of the same demographic cohort will increasingly show genetic familiarity the more of their genome you compare.

[@johankarlsson6]

I share the same haplogroup on the female side of my pairs and a variant of I1 common in Scandinavia. WHG or SHG, the latter stands for scandinavian hunter gatherers have left stronger admixture in northern populations in Europe but my skin color is pale or pinkish. My eye color is blue. Hair color is blond or dark blond. Autosomal DNA shows a strong North West European admixture. In fact its 100%. So it is quite possible that the cheddar man had a strong paleolithic component in his DNA. I share some of that. But that early farmers from Anatolia and the Yamnaya arrived and added genes to my ancestors.

[@goodtoGoNow1956]

I think that there is a fair chance their training data is invalid for 10,000 years ago.

[@Bhatmann]

Skoal (Skull) is still a toast used today to drink out of the skulls of enemies killed in battle. I guess they would eat the bodies if they had too also.

[@paulohagan3309]

You reminded me of Skol beer so I paid a quick visit to Wikipedia. It says the lager was originally named after the Scandinavian word for 'toast' ' 'skål'!

[@catchfish2057]

The bodies go better with toast.

[@JamesW225]

What about privolone man?

[@DogWalkerBill]

There is a Scottish archeologist, Neil Oliver, who narrated a BBC TV series on the history of Scotland. In one of his episodes, about the early history, he claims long bones with DNA have been found that proves a surprising number of modern people of Scotland (like 30%) are genetically related to the people who lived there 9,000 years ago. I wonder how many modern people in England & Wales are related to Cheddar Man or his "relatives."

[@thedwightguy]

the Scots, Picts, and Irish is a book about the thirty year DNA study done to look at just that question.

[@veronicaroach3667]

The Welsh also claim nothing to do with the English - or those nasty Normans - and the ancient Irish are also now known not to be what are called 'Celts'. AND there is a clan of New Zealanders that are not Maori, that have been there for millenia -- have genetics that match to Persian. I love this stuff - So a lot of history is getting uprooted by all the new genetics discoveries !

[@mvmv4017]

I have the same haplo group as Cheddar Man and I am Irish.

[@celtspeaksgoth7251]

@@veronicaroach3667 Genetics only confirms those self-evident differences. Southern English are Germanic, others are of Viking descent while the darker Irish + Welsh are related to the original Iberians, e.g. the Basques. Meanwhile Marxists tamper with science to reverse-engineer British societal history to match the inner cities, the Ch4 TV documentary which conjured up the Cheddar Man model being a case in point.

[@arminiusdergrosse]

Pretty soon, if they haven't already, Cambridge and other mainstream outlets will claim that the Windrush arrivals are more closely related to Cheddar Man than we "huwhite supreeeem-a-cist" indigenous Britons.

[@tobyihli9470]

She so animated! I’ve never seen so many different expressions on one persons face. I couldn’t look away. If I was talking to her in the flesh, I would do anything I could to make her laugh, so I could watch her laugh and giggle. Seriously, I wish I was friends with her, or worked with her. She could brighten a guys day. She’s a gas!

[@almaxx9680]

Have you just fell in love 😍

[@veronicaroach3667]

It's her passion for her subject matter that screams loudly at you - but I bet if she got into any subject she would be the same way ! Wonderful as a teacher !

[@Akos885]

Please , the necklace around his neck , was it found with him? Becouse my ancestors while growing up use it alot even still in this age they still use it?

[@brucemoore1339]

Watched only two videos from Evolution Soup and that enough for me to subscribe. Brilliant!

[@jerdonsbabbler3515]

Cave wars in Kentucky were a big deal, too. Onyx Cave, Horse Cave, Mammoth Cave, etc.

[@Digeroo123]

This is so interesting. But it only fixes on four features skin, hair and eye colour and Lactose intolerance. Did he also share Neanderthal genes for example. I am not normally very good at listening to speakers, but she had me totally hooked. More please.

[@WhyAreTheyOverHere]

"VertigoPolitix - The Faulty Science Behind Cheddar Man"

[@KristinaUSA-x5n]

I have the same maternal mitochondrial DNA haplogroup as Cheddar Man and the Austrian Alps Oetzi Iceman. My mom is lactose intolerant, but I am not.

[@mweskamppp]

interesting. About some 10% of Europeans are lactose intolerant. Lactose tolerance of adults is a quite recent development. Younger than 7000 years. The very light skin color of north europeans is younger than 4000 years by the way. There is a good chance that this mutation spread in the early farmers. Their children might have less rickets so they had more descendants. It would not play a role in a hunter gatherer society.

[@stephenskinner3851]

The Japanese eat lots of fish and have light skin. Also, Cheddar man was a descendant of the modern humans that came out of Africa about 80,000 years ago. That is almost 70,000 years of 'out of Africa' humans not being under an African sun. Non African Modern humans that still retain dark skin are in Southern India and the Australian Aboriginals.

[@Aberamentho2010]

Let's stop with the fish theory to explain lack of melanin. It sounds extremely silly, as there are plenty of black/brown people around the planet that eat as much fish as any asian. White skin is a product of modern day homosapiens breeding with neanderthals, denosovans etc. There is a reason euros are called Caucasians. The Cacasus Mtns is the region where some of this interbreeding occured in europe, as it was the hot spot for Neanderthals. We live in the information age. There's just too much information available to still be thinking that white skin came from eating lots of fish.

[@mweskamppp]

The ancestors of the japanese are mostly Han Chinese plus some Jomon whose origin is more sibiria and a bit central asia. Still some research ahead.

[@babylonsburning1]

Why is Cheddar man depicted as Black? His descendants still live in the area and are White. Cheddar man and his ancestors, living in northern Europe would have lost most of whatever melanin in his skin because of the climate.

[@arminiusdergrosse]

He's depicted as black because even science has been politicized. Remember these Marxist tenets, "Truth is a mere bourgeois illusion" and "To mold a people to the communist program they must be separated from their past".

[@jamestodd2323]

The geneticist explains in the interview about the eye and skin color. It was a surprise to them too. It's simply data that emerged.

[@arminiusdergrosse]

@@jamestodd2323 other geneticists have refuted that Cheddar Man had such a dark complexion. It wasn't a "surprise" to these BBC/CNN oriented "geneticists" anymore than it was a "surprise" that they are now trying to claim that many of the Anglo-Saxon kings of England were blakk!

[@mweskamppp]

The WHG mixed with the early european farmers and later with the steppe pastorials from east europe. The color got diluted and disappeared in the crowd. The diet of fish and meat as hunter and gatherer does not provide a pressure on the skin color. They get enough Vitamin D from that. Look at Inuit in the arctic sea. If they were farmers their children would get rickets in winter.

[@judyklein3221]

Fascinating!

[@kevinsamuelsghost685]

Look at all the white people crying in the comment section because Cheddar man was dark skin I love it 😂

[@heiligebimbam3073]

Well, the iceman found in the Austrian Alps was also dark brown with blue eyes. I believe he was older than cheddar man.

[@imwelshjesus]

No, much much younger.

[@oliverave1234]

She seems to avoid talking about the missing alleles from Cheddar Man's genome which would have been used in predicting his skin color, had they been obtainable. Instead those alleles or loci were filled in or calculated by some speculation, as far as I understand it,

[@amirblack3149]

You people sick

[@magnificent6668]

@@amirblack3149 Because they're interested in truth?

[@nickmiller76]

Indeed. Science and political dogma, bad mixture.

[@oliverave1234]

Additionally, Brace spends a solid 5 minutes discussing Vitamin D and its synthesis without contributing one iota of new information, only to conclude neither she nor anyone else knows with any certainty how Cheddar Man survived with skin as dark as equatorial peoples. (They could do bone analysis to see what his diet had been.) She does say there are are Europeans with SNPs for "dark" skin and blue eyes but never says there are ethnic Europeans with skin as dark as the famous reconstructed figure seen in this video and widely endorsed by her.

[@celtspeaksgoth7251]

@@oliverave1234 She slavishly adheres to the Channel 4 model. When the skeleton was first discovered 25 years back they traced a relative in Wiltshire. more likely he was no darker than Christiano Ronaldo.

[@artistrespondingoutside6406]

Please could you tell me whether Meziolithic hunter gatherers would return seasonally to the same 'tent' sites as with modern day hunter gatherers who return seasonally to suit their grazing herds' needs? I ask because I have dowsed 'huts' near some Meziolithic footprints, near Swansea, Wales.

[@jagmaster6595]

The numbers behind this boggle my mind. Everyone is 99.99% related to each and the same DNA but then the rest is what makes all these differences that is such a small set to look at.

[@johnrogan9420]

Only 2000 breeders or less...10000 years ago...human race nearly went extinct..present humans are truly brothers and sisters.

[@april5666]

@@johnrogan9420 I wish this was more widely known and then perhaps people would behave more decently toward one another -- sigh.

[@telebubba5527]

@@johnrogan9420 Not exactly. Human population globally was somewhere between 1 to 10 million people at that time. What you are referring to is the Toba catastrophe which occured about 70,000 years ago.

[@veronicaroach3667]

But they are gradually discovering that the genome data is only part of the picture - there is another whole field of epigenetics which is influences ON the core genome data, and that means the entire subject of what-controls-what is only in it's infancy. And that is entirely separate from the recognition that our bodies contain a huge, huge population of bacteria that also contribute to the total condition & picture of each human system. And we think we 'know' anything ?

[@TheStarGardian]

*WOW! That would add further truth to the fact that they ran Hitler's DNA through many of his remaining living relatives and found out that he had North African and Jewish heritage*

[@MythWizdom]

When modern man (Africans) arrived in Europe, there were no modern Europeans ("whites") in Existence, only the Neanderthal and maybe some Denisovan. It looks like the Cheddar man is the result of hybridization between the African and the Neanderthal/Denisovan, a few generations removed. It was from hybrids like Cheddar man that the various peoples ("whites") of Europe evolved, fascinating! The fact that the first modern Europeans were black is giving the r@cists fits, as for the hair, he most likely had dreadlocks. So, white skin in modern man is even younger than we thought, less than 10,000 years old. This definitely makes a lot of sense when all things are considered!

[@hypat1aa]

I've been saying this for years. WHG was dark skinned. They're a bit more removed than you say, but they have 75 percent Villabruna/25 percent GoyetQ2 ancestry, GoyetQ2 being high in Neanderthal ancestry. (Or a sister group) it's conjectured that WHG did contribute to Northern Africans. The PCA analysis seems to bear this out. Also, many features of European people likely evolved in an Ice Age population of Africans who were stalled near the Horn of Africa/Arabia, before spreading out into the rest of Eurasia after the Last Glacial Maximum. Genetic analysis of Horners shows both West European DNA and a very ancient origin for it, as the population is very homogeneous. Light skin variants likely had their start there.

[@cfowler9789]

It's not accurate to describe WHG as African, they are a genetically distinct group with a genome very different to African populations. To imagine people similar to dreadlocked Africans living in northern Europe during this period is fantasy.

[@idratherbeaphilthanajustin9533]

Cheddar man didn't genetically resemble an African, and nor have any scientists claimed he was ethnically black. He genetically resembled modern day white people the most.

[@pruephillip1338]

In the diagram at 26:44 there's a TA and CG. Can you can say a AT instead of a TA - can it be reversed? is that a thing?

[@russpaxman3660]

Originally I was highly sceptical that political correctness and modern Afrocentric views were impacting empirical scientific research, and that cheddar man’s DNA would have given a range of skin tone, hair and eye colour, and that to appease the most aggressively vocal in our society, a darker skin tone had been assigned to him in death, than he had in life. Though I should not be, my perception has been modified by the open and genuine way of this lady.

[@Ck-zk3we]

It’s a joke. His was no darker than dark skinned Southern Europeans today. She has guaranteed the future financing of her work. Ver smart interpretation for her

[@russpaxman3660]

@@Ck-zk3we When funding is at stake, scientific rigour can take a back seat. Especially if it fits a popular agenda.

[@dariomartinez459]

Sadly too much of science has been corrupted by financial pressure and political correctness so it is smart to have doubts.

[@klnkat6600]

In my opinion, we need to press for the peer review process to have rigorous argumentation again. Perhaps we can add peer pressure to the politicians to get government agendas completely out of the science loop. We must somehow remove monetary gain and/or climate or anti aging band-wagoneering as as the primary goal in research. Currently, there is very little ethical integrity left due to the prevalence of Marxist influenced, non scientific, language manipulation that compromises our hard science conversations in the Universities today. The very fact she spends so much time on the skin pigmentation proves that political correctness and racial activism has bastardized our scientific conversations into nonsensical new speak. Word saladitis is the new nerd speak as scientists reach around the back side of the universe to justify their wild leaps of logic to support the currently "agreed" upon agenda - the precise opposite of the actions called for by the scientific method.

[@russpaxman3660]

@@klnkat6600 Not the same, however akin to climate research, those that a few years ago conformed to the notion of man made global warming were giving large grants from the public purse, and those that doubted the findings, found themselves with no funding at all. This forced the hands of sceptics to tow the party line.or go without funding. When ideology and finances enter the world of empirical science, truth and facts, can easily be abandoned. I am not a climate change denier, I am a believer in facts and evidence, even when it runs counter to the current fashions of received wisdom.

[@texcatlipocajunior144]

I have to speculate that there are more factors involved in skin color genetics than mere distance from the equator. The Eskimos have lived in the Arctic for at least 5000 years and have considerably more melanin than say, the Sami. It has to be more than a one variable equation that determines skin color.

[@sgjoni]

They were hunter gatherers and lived on allot of D vitamin rich foods. Seal liver etc. No need to shed the UV protection. It's the farming diet that is probably the main culprit, on top of low UV light. Diets rich in grains.

[@fainitesbarley2245]

@@sgjoni Plus lots of glare from the ice all during hunting seasons.

[@pete2814]

​@@sgjoniAMEN...more people need to understand that... vitamin D retains melanin as the sun is a supplier as well

[@shell91]

Fascinating stuff. I share DNA with Cheddar Man, 4 SNP chains with the largest chain 305 SNPs in Chr. 12, 235 SNPs in Chr. 11. 130 SNPs in Chr. 10, and 123 SNPs in Chr. 2. I'd love to find out exactly which genes

[@shell91]

@Bekah Very cool :)

[@iamtheroadwanderer]

this was interesting, thank you 👍

[@LawrenceMclean]

I am very skeptical of this current academic "fashion" that Europeans were black until relatively recently. The recent pandemic has recent pandemic has revealed how crucial Vitamin D is for health. Given that that modern Europeans have been there for around 40,000 years and white skin appeared in almost historical times seems far fetched to me. Another aspect, which is very evident living in Australia, which has much higher UV levels than Europe (there are reasons why the Southern Hemisphere has higher levels of UV than the northern hemisphere). There are actually 2 types of European White skin. There is the "Celtic" type white skin and the European type white skin. The European type of white skin tans, whereas the "Celtic" type does not really tan (or tans very little). There are likely distinctly different genetics involved in the two types of white skin (I have the "Celtic" type). According to my genetic tests, I am higher than average of the proportion of Western Hunter Gatherer genetics, and yet I am very white. I spend many hours in the sun every day, and yet I remain white. Another aspect, which as far as I can tell "science" has yet to recognize, as I have never seen it discussed in scientific literature (my brothers and sister have the same effect), is that: I can spend many hours in bright summer sun (in Australia) with no sun screen and I will not get sunburned so long as I do not wear sunglasses, if I wear sunglasses I will be badly sunburned in 10 minutes. I would be fascinated what a blind test of my personal genetics would come up with for my skin tone by those researchers who say ancient Europeans where "black". Such a trait that I describe would likely have taken a very long time to evolve (longer than a few thousand years).

[@lilylove2021]

3.38 it starts.....

[@peterbreis5407]

Makes you wonder about the health implications for the recent immigration of darker skinned people to northern latitudes. Do they have problems with rickets?

[@beccabbea2511]

Apparently they do. As many of them are often fully covered and are not exposed to enough sunlight rickets has been rearing it head again. I can't remember where I read it but there was a report a while ago.

[@trashbeansoup2467]

@@beccabbea2511 Did a quick search, can't find any mention in The Lancet nor National Library of Medicine. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, maybe it is made up by diet?

[@celtspeaksgoth7251]

@@trashbeansoup2467 Well the Covid 'experts' are talking more and more about Vit D as they have BAME in mind so it may always have been an issue but now chickens are coming home to roost so scientists have ditched the old 'we're all the same' mantra to warn those groups they have to improve their natural defences.

[@mandyjk4203]

Yes. We have to be careful to consume enough Vit D in our diets and sometimes need supplementation.

[@mandyjk4203]

@@trashbeansoup2467 Try some US sources. It's documented here.

[@jaynehorn151]

Omg such stunning finds.

[@pjmoseley243]

alot of students but then she changed it to a couple of students??????????? in the same breath???????? then she said to done a PHd in her late 20s ealty 30s?????????????? I am very sceptical about everything she says. I dont believe a thing she concludes.the story has changed over the last 20 years 40,000 years ago the english were not here??? it sounds BS to me.

[@codewordslinkydog]

Cheddar man is my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandfather

[@tommygamba170]

I have issue with their interpretation of the physical features of the face.

[@johnmaccallum7935]

Blue eyes and dark skin, a rare combination. The problem here, if there is one; is what is considered to be dark skin. Is it as a Greek or a Sub/Saharan?

[@mansamusa2012]

Depends. If you’re comparing a Southern European to an Englishman than a Greek would be considered dark skinned

[@johnmaccallum7935]

@@mansamusa2012 Exactly. This is not discussed in any articles on the genetic analysis. You know why obviously.

[@NoRockinMansLand]

@@johnmaccallum7935 what on earth is a "sub saharan"? I don't think you understand that many "sub saharan" countries are actually also in the sahara ironically LOL and not all Africans have the same skin tone. Ever seen an Erhiopian, Nigerian, Congolese, south African, Somali, etc?

[@johnmaccallum7935]

@@NoRockinMansLand Hi Samaale, Sub-Saharan is the term used to describe the area south of the Saharan Desert. It's often used in context to describe the peoples who inhabit this vast area. Of course it's populated by many diverse inhabitants.

[@NoRockinMansLand]

@@johnmaccallum7935 yes, but the problem is that the term itself makes Africans south of the sahara seem like a monolythic people

[@gentrynewsom2080]

He looks very much like northern plains original inhabitants of the USA

[@CrowdPleeza]

Based on skull examinations. How do you think this Hofmeyr person appeared? This skull was found in southern Africa. "She compared the Hofmeyr skull with contemporaneous Upper Paleolithic skulls from Europe and with the skulls of living humans from Eurasia and sub-Saharan Africa, including the Khoe-San (Bushmen). Because the Khoe-San are represented in the recent archeological record of South Africa, they were expected to have close resemblances to the South African fossil. Instead, the Hofmeyr skull is quite distinct from recent sub-Saharan Africans, including the Khoe-San, and has a very close affinity with the European Upper Paleolithic specimens." Source: Hofmeyr-Skull supports the "Out of Africa"-Theory-Max Planck

[@mosesm6040]

Check present day East Africans! Most of them have skulls far closer to Europeans than the rest of SubSaharan Africans. Strong arguments could classify some of these East Africans as Caucasoids! Craniology/phrenology is an archaic approach to origin and ethnicity of human science at least in Homo Sapiens!

[@CrowdPleeza]

@@mosesm6040 Which east Africans are you referring to? Somali and Ethiopians are known to have Eurasian admixture.

[@manoflemancha2407]

Imagine getting the named after cheese instead of a dragon.

[@jasonsspecial]

Just because a person has a gene doesn't mean it's an active gene.

[@magnificent6668]

Indeed. East Asians have the same gene. And we can look at again, a Korean and see that their skin tone is typically not very dark.

[@alisonholland7531]

Oh dear, have you a problem with Cheddar man being dark skinned - I don't, I think it's fantastic.

[@jasonsspecial]

Cheddar man is old,his ancestors were no.t living in northern latitude continuously for more than 10.000 yrs.so he's somewhat of a recent arrival.

[@NoRockinMansLand]

Is it such a big deal if he dark skinned? Lol

[@NoRockinMansLand]

@@magnificent6668 you again

[@jimkennedy7050]

like donkey and horse offspring, the males were infertile or barely fertile at best. However the female mule equivalent of modern man and neanderthal offspring may have been more fertile.

[@boffutt87]

Very probable. It would appear the we basically replaced the nuclear DNA of Neanderthals with our own and assimilated the female mitochondrial dna giving most non African modern humans around 2-3% of our genome inherited from Neanderthals.

[@dariomartinez459]

@@boffutt87 Non Sub Saharan Africans, people from the Maghreb have Neanderthal DNA.

[@mrsmallpinky9041]

I wonder how many dislikes this video has - Cheddar Man 🙈

[@jimd5955]

So my white skin means I'm a child of angels

[@Madmen604]

I love the environmental mock ups.

[@jeuandavidjones]

The 'oldest Englishman' makes me laugh.

[@yakuzapower8505]

What you mean?

[@jeuandavidjones]

@@yakuzapower8505 the cheddar man is 10,000 years old? There were no English then; it would be a stretch to even call them British but if we have to give ancient people labels ...

[@johnbrereton5229]

@@jeuandavidjones 10,000 years ago there was also no Cheddar Cave either, so no Cheddar man. However, if we are going to talk about him we have to give him a name and a location. And as as he was found in what is now called Cheddar, we can call him Cheddar man and as Cheddar is in England, he is the oldest complete man ever found in England. I also remember that they found his English descendants still living locally, so he is indeed, the first Englishman.

[@fainitesbarley2245]

@@johnbrereton5229 Until someone finds an older one. I find it interesting that each new discovery of ancient humanoid fossils is hailed as the earliest and the origin of mankind. Yet every time an older one is found elsewhere a few years later.

[@fainitesbarley2245]

Why? So you can feel sophisticated and superior to a load of early 19th century archaeologists who were developing an early field of knowledge?

[@rrshowtime3900]

Proof of all claims required.

[@jamestodd2323]

What do to think this video is? Do you need a test tube to examine or something??

[@Teadon86]

@@jamestodd2323 It isn't proof, it is only claimed up till she presents the evidence. You can do a quick research on this topic and see the numerous dark patches which she liberally interprets to depict Cheddar man as a black/brown individual when in fact this claim hails from Dr Tom Booth, in stark contradiction to the paper he co-authored.

[@vilnaukrana3891]

I did not find any information which alleles were responsible for such assumptions of skin, eyes, hair colors, only some "assumptions", and "modeling". I can "assume" anything as well, and call it scientific. Where is the actual proof? The science is sold out to political agenda. What a shame...

[@mweskamppp]

Prof Krause did the original study on ancient european DNA. He also found the Denisovan DNA. They compare the DNA details to modern European and other populations. He also said the cheddar man (WHG) skin color setup is comparable to ethiopian skin color.

[@TragoudistrosMPH]

37:00 The inuit people and Native Americans of the higher latitudes are great examples of this, too.

[@TragoudistrosMPH]

39:10 Fixed in the population? That's interesting. I had not heard of that before!

[@mweskamppp]

I read about some old english and irish myths and legends that tell of a dark skinned nobility. It might have been that in a time of bad harvests that a farming population got defeated by a hunter gatherer tribe who then was able to cement themselves as the upper crust for a long time.

[@RichardEnglander]

Hi from 2024 I keep seeing two things related to this: 1 that Cheddar Man wae black 2 that there has been no continuous population of Great Britain but that the descents of Cheddar Man live in the area today. Can anybody please explain?

[@autarko]

1. Cheddar man wasn't black. The representation we are shown is politically motivated. 2. There was something like a 90% population replacement of hunter gatherers when the neolithic farmers arrived about 6000 years ago, then another 90% replacement when the Bell Beaker (descended from Yamnaya) arrived. It's possible that the modern descendent looked very different from Cheddar Man, but inherits his paternal Ydna and enough nuclear dna to be a match.

[@pisquared1827]

Another possibility is that hunter gatherers like Cheddar man would have migrated south for the summer following the herds he hunted. There would not have been any reason for him to stay in the winter when there was nothing to hunt. When farming took off, farmers would have to remain in the north through the winter to ensure others did not encroach on their land. This was about the same time skin colour got lighter.

[@Ck-zk3we]

Or the cheddar man people had only recently migrated north , where he died

[@pisquared1827]

@@Ck-zk3we Northern European populations all had dark skin until farming started. That is proven by DNA analysis on remains found all over Europe. At that time there were no farmers in Europe, and Cheddar man's people would have been the only population there. All hunter gatherers migrated regularly and their food was meat or fish which had sufficient vitamin D - hence dark skin. Only farmers stayed put, and farmers had a low vitamin D diet, so farmers needed light skin. Light skin was found only after about 7000 to 5000 years ago when farming began. Farming started in the Middle East, then those people migrated to Southern Europe, and then to Northern Europe. These were the people who replaced the hunter gather people of Europe. They probably interbred with the European hunter gatherers (since some modern people have been found to be related to by DNA analysis Cheddar man in England, but the farmer population that moved into Northern Europe would have been many times the size of the hunter gatherer population because farming can support much larger population densities than hunting and gathering, so in terms of what happens to European DNA, it would look like DNA replacement even if they interbred.

[@Leodachef1]

@@pisquared1827 Not quite true. Pale skin comes from neanderthales, which mixed with people 250k to 40k years ago which created the pale or lighter skin tones. So there were people with lighter skin tones even much earlier.

[@pisquared1827]

@@Leodachef1 White skin is absense of melanin, so it isn't a gene we inherited from the neanderthals. Skin colour varies across the world and in indegenous people, it is dependent on three things with which there is a 100% correlation - UV radiation levels, how much clothing is worn (due to climatic temperature), and how much dietary vitamin B intake people have (which reduces how much Vitamin D needs to be synthesised from the the sun - note that Eskimos who eat mainly fish and meat are darker than Europeans, and neolithic hunters were darker than neolithic farmers as determined by DNA analysis of European populations). kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZSXgHmZiZqgZ7s This is a fairly short term adaptation, otherwise there could not be such a direct correlation).

[@kevinhickman6837]

Having found this video a year after it was posted, it has lost none of its interest or relevance. Fascinating to fill in some details of Cheddar Man, a name I had heard but not understood. Glad I came across it.