Evolving Music into Atonality | Daniel Barenboim - Deconstructed [subtitulado]

Together with members of the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra Daniel Barenboim explores the musical approach of Pierre Boulez.
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Daniel Barenboim dedicates the album "Hommage à Boulez" to his deceased friend Pierre Boulez: dg.lnk.to/bare...
Music:
Pierre Boulez - Anthémes 1 for Solo Violin
Pierre Boulez - Dialogue de l'ombre double for clarinet and electronics
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[@pacisvox4911]

That's the Pastoral Symphony by Beethoven... In the wrong key. That made me laugh.

[@ilifertor]

I am not a musician, only a passionate music lover and I am trying hard to understand atonal to see if I can find some pleasure from listening to it, rather than just dismissing it right away because I find it discomforting. However my efforts have been in vain because I just don't seem to find any hidden beauty or message in it. I am perseverant but I have arrived at a point where I just want to declare it is pure noise and stop trying to understand it. I must say that Maestro Barenboim has helped me understand the difference between atonal and tonal music, not just in this video but in other ones he has posted.

[@koskokos0540]

Have you tried Scriabin's sonatas from 5th to 10th? They do not (mostly) have concrete tonality so they can be called atonal but not in the Shoenberg's sense. That's to say, I'm not a musician too, and I can hardly find anything beautiful in Shoenberg's atonal compositions. Although I must admit, there are some fragments that I liked, but these are not enough for me to listen to him with pleasure.

[@mcrettable]

it's like a new language... you would be uncomfortable and feel out place if you were in a place you don't recognize and surrounded by a language you don't understand. if music started out A-tonal, something harmonic would be just as jarring. But I agree with you. a-tonal music has 0 effect on me and probably on the majority of people.

[@platio101]

This is what happens when musicians make music for musicians. The audience is lost.

[@platio101]

lavroffcinema chillout. We’re both right.

[@dannydimercurio577]

Check out Mahler's unfinished symphony (No. 10), specifically the Adagio as I believe that was the only movement he was able to finish. There are tonal references but also atonal ones. Anytime I listen to it I can almost feel his agony and pain, but also this sense of love, hope, and peace, followed by more agonizing torment. One thing I love about Mahler's music is it demands the attention of whoever is listening to it.

[@cathschofield674]

There is no greater commentator on music than Daniel Barenboim

[@Farahmand1010]

Gould, and by far. With all respects to Mr. Barenboim. Bernstein was also great.

[@dariopalomba8420]

Great video maestro, simple and....important. Thank you for your analysis and greetings from Athens.

[@MatthewEverettGates]

Thank you very much for the easily comprehensive listening contrasts, and for the simple explaining. Well done.

[@mariaamparo7100]

Maravilloso maestro Daniel Barenboim y acompañantes!!!🌹💕

[@baibaandersson9454]

Thank you Maestro. Thank you about all yours music Videos with analisys. You give New perspective of things even for profies. Thank you so mutch. Seams, that You are only of Super Greath Music Gigants that make this very inttesting ideos. IT was super that You start rhis short talking at wery beginning of lockdown. Thank you.

[@erniemajor]

DEVOLVING

[@Daniel_Zalman]

I wish you would go deeper. If the build up and resolution of tension is the mode of communication in tonal music. What is the means of communication in atonal music? Is it simply all of the other elements of music other than harmony?

[@ethansaltmere]

it is A mode of communication. I would stress that one of the major forces of communication in all music is the unexpected. In order for the unexpected to exist... there must already be a language or a preconception learnt. In my mind, the music of Boulez et al is a language... just like all music. If you cannot speak Russian, if someone were to speak it to you you wouldn't understand. It wouldn't make sense. Just learning some words in Russian would allow you to understand better. To make your own sense of it. Contemporary music is just like this.

[@johnappleseed8369]

What is the means of communication in tonal music? cadences?

[@ocean_0602]

Danny B. Try searching on KZbin the videos "Bernstein on Debussy". If you watch both part 1 and 2 you'll see he beautifully explains this exact question.

[@ckarav9920]

It contains harmony, just not in a traditional "tension and release" fashion. Most composers that use it focus on harmonic "color", or specific sounds associated with certain groups of pitches.

[@eugenesedita]

Danny B. There are levels of dissonance , consonance and resolution based on one's experience with tonal music.

[@albertmm96]

dear Mr. Barenboim, thank you for the videos. If I may say, after 1900, there has been also a lot of tonal music, extraordinary ones, and of course you know it. Ravel, Stravinsky, Britten ,Hindemith, Shostakovich, etc etc.

[@willdon.1279]

Some of my current favourite genres were amongst music I found difficult initially in my teens. Hence, at different times I have, over a very long life as a music lover, made severel attempts to to find something appealing, either emotionally or intellectually in many examples of this music. I freely acknowledge the skill, knowledge and musical abilities of these composers. They must wish not to repeat, but explore the myriad possibilities of the greatest (to myself) of this enriching art. Alas, I have found my intellect & emotions, for whatever reason, seems only to allow an appreciation of tonal and in particular beauty, of form in performance. I am happy, even after 70+ years to still find new examples from familiar heros - and one performer has recently transformed many of my older treasures afresh. It is important to continually push the musical envelope and I applaud such, even if not for me.

[@chrisczajasager]

p.s.........Schoenberg found the word 'atonal' ridiculous! a-Tonic' was his preference and manifested in his works from opus 11 onward.

[@YS-tk6bz]

philosophy is my one of favorite. thank you very much.

[@waverly2468]

I don't appreciate 12-tone music generally but there are two 12-tone works that I do like--the Berg Violin Concerto and the score to the movie "Fantastic Voyage" (1965) that is supposed to use 12-tone elements. Leonard Rosenman the composer of the soundtrack studied with Schoenberg.

[@LouisEmery]

The 6th symphony (of Beethoven --do I need to specify?) is a great example of a piece that has a home AND feels like home.

[@porstlab]

Thank you so much for this wonderful introduction into 12 tone music!

[@BrianJosephMorgan]

Bravo.

[@LouisEmery]

I own a piano compendium book published in 1910. There none of "modern" stuff from 1880 to 1910 in it. ;)

[@wickedpawn5437]

It's interesting that Daniel sees Wagner and not Mahler as the end of tonality. I agree. Mahler took tonality containment to another planet, but there's no doubt about Wagner's influence on Mahler.

[@gracemember101]

As you know Jeux was the last piece Debussy wrote before he died.One is left wondering where is the tonal center until the very last note. This all came about once equal temperament was accepted. Now the "devil in the music" could be anywhere in the scale, not just 4 to 7. BUT, while Schoenberg's 12-tone music may be touted as the successor to Wagner as you suggest, I would point out that the audience (and their participation by buying tickets) was left behind in this headlong rush to accept atonality. Jeux, as I mentioned before, was an early attempt at atonality but gave the audience a place of resolution at the end. That is why no music director in his right mind would program Schoenberg or Berg or any other atonal composer without balancing it with something the audience can identify with but written 100-200 years before. Otherwise, an orchestra will go bankrupt because of lack of audience support (attendance).

[@Gwailo54]

Simon Rattle over saw with the CBSO a series of concerts taking in music from the twentieth century. One concert I went to was all 1950s. Agon (Stravinsky), Chronochromie (Messiaen) and Gruppen (Stockhausen). One of the best concerts I've been to. Another CBSO concert had the Adagio from Mahler's 10th, hardly the most tonal of music, it has nice tunes I grant you, but the chord at the climax is scrunchy; Berg's Altenberg Lieder (one of Heather Harper's final performances and she hardly looked at the score even though she brought it on stage), which only the tone deaf cannot appreciate; finally Shostakovich 4, which is an astonishing composition daring to push the limits of acceptable conservative thinking. Shostakovich wrote one of the most astonishing symphonies, his fifteenth, which even a die hard like myself finds impenetrable, but the look back to the end of the fifth symphony in it, as the life support machines clatter away in the final movement pushes the concept of the symphony to the limits. As for Berg being a killer in a programme, you obviously do not know the Seven Early Songs. Boulez more than once conducted an all twentieth century concert with the LSO and the hall was full. Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin is not normally considered a crowd pleaser, but still they pulled in the punters who could have left at the interval, but they stayed.

[@felixdevilliers1]

I remember when I was studying the piano aged aboiut 14 or 15 - I knew nothing about Schoenberg - but I felt indoctrinated by the tonal system which puts everything into one box and enjoyed playing dissonant tone clusters and improvised with dissonances. I composed a piece in which I decided to ignore the rules. It sounds like early Alban Berg about whom I knew nothing. The greatest Classical composers were precisely those who were critical as compsoers of the very system they belonged to, i.e. they took it through a critical process. Haydn often treated the homecoming Finales as a joke. In the Romantic period something like a shadow falls on the norms. Tonality came into music quite recently overlapping with the Enlightenment and the idea of resolving dissonance in a harmonious whole .In the Middle Ages, I'm told, the major 3rd sounded like a dissonance. The tonal system became ideological and composers had to find a way out of it precisely in order to save the lost norms, to make them look into the mirror of their failure for the sake of humanity. What could be more humane than the music of Alban Berg? A good performance can help. I have a friend in Verona who rejected atonal music absoluely, but she changed her mind when a visiting pianist played a Boulez Sonata very convincingly.

[@felixdevilliers1]

Of course the Master's knowledge is a million times greater than mine. I would like, nevertheless, to add something to this idea of "the feeling of home." in traditional rather than atonal works. In Mendelssohn's first Song Without Words in E major, when I get to the last E major chord I feel that "home" is very far away and this is due to the manner in which Mendelssohn treats harmonies and develops the material. There is a similar feeling in a beautiful "Melodie" (E flat) by his sister, Fanny. She resists home during the piece and as the concluding bars arrrive she is struggling against it.The left hand insists on chords that lead "home" and the right hand goes into a complete crisis; in the end she has to get there but the main meolody comes back briefly, pianissimo, and again seems very faraway, as if on a distant island. The great composers don't take home for granted.Take the example of Schubert's Impromptu in A flat major. Already in the first bars there is an Austrian nostalgia for a home that does not really exist; in the middle section he becomes more and more dramatic and then at a high point he has to find his way back and does this with a chromatic modulation that makes you feel he comes "home" with a broken heart and home is not just home any more; he adds sinking chromatic notes in the bass. The Trio - contrasting section - goes into an even greater crisis in order to get back. Obviously Barenboim knows this. Home in great music is always imaginary. The atonal composers know they have lost this home and have to go as it were into the jungle to seek it without literally representing it. Anyone who doesn't hear this, even instinctively, in Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern is not listening them at all. Berg in his Violin Concerto echoes some of the "home" music he longs for.

[@danielmarks5172]

great video! in 5 minutes he explains atonality so greatly that even someone that does not know much about music can understand!! Bravo Maestro!

[@Paroles_et_Musique]

Umm, no. he explains nothing, just exposes a few famous tonal phrases then, without any context, asks to expose a few atonal music which is not even specified who composed it, then over simplifies it by saying "in one we go back home, in the other we don't".. No surprise, explaining the path to contemporary music comfortable in 6 minutes is just fiction, a concluding proof here and concert room still rather empty when anything after Bartok is played..

[@danielmarks5172]

yes but saying how in atonal music you don't feel like home, and it holds you waiting for something to be resolved, while in tonal music, you feel like you are in the right place, i mean that's something everyone can understand and without going in too deep, you still can get the point and understand the difference between tonal and atonal!

[@bastiatintheandes4958]

Maestro: Your wonderful musical metaphor about contemporary music "...that you do not have a feeling of home" describes the bitter reality of the path we have taken, as you yourself state, more that 100 years already and we have not found home, we are lost. The same stale ideas, noise and experiments of a century ago are still the whole output of any contemporary composer. What has happened? Clearly, we took the wrong path, which, added to the exclusive nature of the avant guard elite, has left us with sarcastic stares and empty souls. Just, take a look of how many performances by different conductors of Boulez works are recorded and sold. Almost nothing.

[@killboybands1]

False profundity. What path do you suggest?

[@HonestSaxSound-unEdited-]

@@killboybands1 edification of the human being. Atonal is relativism and confusion..

[@Pravdaband]

I agree. Jazz was the next evolution in harmony but it was rejected by “serious” educated composers. We did diverge to that, just is was the masses that went there. The serialists are on their lonely island. Now, not to say atonal (a-tonic) music doesn’t have it place. Therenody for the victims of Hiroshima comes to mind as well as all horror, suspense and chase scene film music. But for pure listening, Schoenberg was wrong it 50 years past his 50 year prediction

[@juancarlossanchez7318]

Sr. Barenboim: ojalá hiciera un video acerca del sonido 13 del maestro Julián Carrillo ya que ese sistema es anterior a Arnold Schöenberg. Gracias por ilustrarnos!!

[@clarinete09]

what's the name of the clarinetist? nice sound!

[@betra7080]

Jussef Eisa

[@brianfuata1014]

Nice look

[@jesus-of-cheeses]

Lots of great music was written after 1910: Britten, Shostakovich, Pärt. Doesn’t mean we have to listen to nails screeching on a chalkboard. If music doesn’t connect with listeners on an emotional level, it doesn’t matter how “innovative” academics make it out to be.

[@ckarav9920]

You are very correct sir, but I think that there is much atonal music that doesn't sound like nails screeching on a chalkboard.

[@brunoescoto9630]

I think what you said is totally true at least to me. The biggest difference between "classical music" ( I include baroque, classicism and romanticism) from any other, whether it is atonal music or POP music, is that classical music elevates your soul and, as you said, it reaches an emotional level that may bring you to tears while the other two don't.

[@killboybands1]

nonsense. it's amazing the overreaching ignorance of these comments. Much modern expressionist music is intensely emotional. Britten's music is emotionally reserved if anything. These attempts to discredit certain music with blanket statements is completely plastic .." You just can't push orchestrated music or exact notated music the same way you can push progressive rock and jazz fusion" ...What??!! Notation techniques and skill levels have evolved to the point where if one wanted to they could notate a piece of music that sounds as if it were entirely improvised. While Improvised music can almost never sound composed. Modernity is an ongoing process that started centuries before Jazz and progressive rock even existed. And those 2 forms borrowed directly from modern composers...Charlie Parker coped licks straight out of the Rite of Spring. Further, the term "Modern" music specifically refers to the music of the early 20th century. I love prog rock myself but it's much it is much more reserved than the "classical" music made 50-60 years earlier. Zappa consistently Championed Boulez, Varese, and Stravinsky.

[@HonestSaxSound-unEdited-]

@@killboybands1??! I think your concept is wrong.. nothing more tonal than rock, and than the most of jazz too. Atonal is confusion and relativism.. and feels not good. Can you imagine a worship with atonals? Lol

[@killboybands1]

@@HonestSaxSound-unEdited- . "I think your concept is wrong. nothing more tonal than rock, and than the most of jazz too" Yes, I know. My statement about Jazz and rock music was a quote from someone else's post that has been deleted. I was rebuking thier statement that orchestral music can't be pushed as far as Rock or Jazz which of course is totally untrue "Atonal is confusion and relativism" So? Harmonic Modulation is relative. So is highly chromatic music of the late romantic period. So is species counterpoint. So is Sonata form. So is Renaissance vocal music...etc. Since western music is the only culture that employs these musical forms and techniques in the way that it does. Japanese Gagaku isn't tonal either and its music is like nothing in the western tradition and is much much older and entirely tied to Japanese culture. Atonality was a natural path for composers once they reached the harmonic limitations of our western system. Atonal is relative to the late Romantic period. The Romanic to the Classical and Classical to Baroque...etc. Plus there's nothing confused about much of the atonal music repertoire since it is very organized. When listening to Berg or Schoenberg I don't feel at all confused. Your reaction is different from mine. I don't feel the need for certain expectations to be fulfilled and I enjoy the variety of harmonic languages that these artists offer us. If you don't care for it don't listen to it. "feels not good" Feels good to me if the piece is good. The human experience has more to offer than just feeling "good". Music has more to offer. "Can you imagine a worship with atonals" Olivier Messiaen was deeply religious and spiritual yet atonality was a prominent feature of his music and he experimented with total serialism, his works are some of the most beautiful ever composed. I find them deeply moving and his harmonic vocabulary is intoxicating Further, there is lots of tonal music that one wouldn't traditionally use for worship. Generally, You wouldn't use Thrash Metal, Disco or Bebop for worship either (but some may if they want to). Nor would You find a traditional Lutheran hymn at a Hindu, Buddhist temple or a voodoo ceremony ...etc. Different religions have different ceremonial music and music doesn't require use in worship in order for it to have merit so who cares if a certain type of music is appropriate for worship or not? Choose one that is. John Coltrane' was another example. His later music was very dissonant and abstract and yet he expressed his deep spirituality through it. “My goal is to live a truly religious life and express it in my music. If you live it, when you play there's no problem because the music is part of the whole thing. To be a musician is really something. It goes very, very deep. My music is the spiritual expression of what I am - my faith, my knowledge, my being.” ― John Coltrane "A true music, that is to say, spiritual, a music which may be an act of faith; a music which may touch upon all subjects without ceasing to touch upon God; an original music, in short, whose language may open a few doors, take down some yet distant stars" - Olivier Messiaen.

[@TheEleventeen]

Thank you for this wonderful video !

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

When I went over from a Physics major to music composition, it left me with a much stronger background in math and acoustics than most musicians. Thus I was unlucky enough to grasp that Schoenberg's systematized serial methods are based upon a lie -- that all intervals of the 12 note scale can be treated democratically in a row. But these intervals aren't the same acoustically, having developed from tetrachordal tonal and diatonic scales of at least as far back as Pythagoreus. Easley Blackwood has observed for a proper serialism one need employ a scale that is "intervalically neutral", such as the scales of 11 or 13 equal steps. In this instance the Serialists were conservative, and never stepped past the 12 tone scale. Their reluctance (or ignorance) led composers to choose germinating tone rows that had minimal adjacency of tonal intervals: no rich 3rds and 6ths, few dominant-tonic implicating 4th and 5ths, which pretty much left what's heard as the watermark of so much of this music: 7ths, 9ths, and tritones. Only logical. (I've made a computerized count: most 12-tone music uses the latter three intervals 55% of the time, while all other musics seldom top 8% -- a significant difference!) Like a diet of all spices and little protein, fat or carbohydrate, it quickly loses its appeal. If the 13-note scale had been adopted, the cliche might not have arisen, as Schoenberg's initial goal would have become much easier to achieve: a systematic avoidance of tonal center, or "home key" (to oversimplify.) When I tried to discuss some of this with the teachers and serial-prone students around me at Columbia, you can imagine the rebuff that I was given: snotty and defensive. If I suggested that the so-called "math" used for row manipulation (procedures that seemed to intimidate a lot of other musicians -- perhaps the point) was a rather weak copy of real permutation and commutation theory, their fear, hatred and scorn reached new heights. I learned fast to keep my mouth shut, while dutifully cranking out several capable 12-tone compositions to obtain grade credit, then tossing these papers later as initiation dues. Wasted time. - Wendy Carlos

[@georgepantzikis7988]

You have completely missed the point of the 12-tone system. It's not based on maths. It's based on the logic of the western cannon, so of course it uses 12-tone equal temperament. Listen to Jacob Collier (or to modern jazz generally) if you want microtonality. Schoenberg's system isn't based on mathematic tonal neutrality, but on the shift - again, within western classical music - away from tonal centres, from a theretical standpoint. The fact that each note is not an equal amount of clicks away in the 12-tone system doesn't make a difference because Schoenberg wasn't aiming at atonality as such, but atonality in terms as opposed to previews harmonic systems.

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

@@georgepantzikis7988 It's based on a very poor command of math. Exactly. "Western music" did not shift away from tonal centers. Take Jazz - still fundamentally tonal. The music of a few poor theoreticians like Schoenberg shifted - away from sensitive intuition which is the heart of all art of quality - to pseudo -intellectualism. And as Carlos demonstrates, they made a very poor job of it.

[@ottodude555]

Consider me snotty and defensive. The 12-tone system is not intended to distribute tones so they're mathematically perfectly in tune, like you seem to be basing your judgements on. Why would a composer throw out the 12 tone system, which each composer has likely decades of experience with, just to satisfy some theoretically perfect "democratic" treatment of tones? Ludicrous. Also ludicrous is complaining about the intervals involved as not your taste, therefor bad. Atonality is spicy, if you can't take the heat and find yourself missing 5ths maybe listen to some ska (no hate to ska). No "sensitive intuition" in this music? Maybe your intuitions aren't sensitive enough. And calling row manipulation "fake math copied from permutation theory" is so blind it's funny. It IS mathematical permutations, you twit, and being influenced by the mathematics of permutation theory doesn't make it invalid somehow? Source: Physics and math graduate and atonal music enjoyer. lol intense rant. I understand atonality isn't enjoyed by most people, so I can't really blame you for not enjoying it. Personally it speaks to me deeply, and when people dismiss it as random fiddling or mathematical and unconcerned with aesthetics, it triggers me.

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

@@ottodude555 You do realize the quote you are offended by is Wendy Carlos, right? (cough) and perhaps she's just a wee bit better at math than you? Feel free to grow a thicker skin and visit her website for the complete essay, which you really should reread more carefully. Aesthetics...are one thing, but pretending that atonal music is inherently more clever than Ska is another. I was amused by her easy disembowelment of the entire charade. Now dry your tears and find a piano to mash your hands on. Better, right?

[@stevennababan6159]

Daniel Barenboim has a perfect pitch.

[@wickedpawn5437]

Toscanini is another one I can recall.

[@Kapiwolf123]

he's conducted and rehearsed the Pastoral Symphony hundreds of times, if not thousands, and knows the key, he'd know if somebody's playing it by now after decades of hearing it in the right key...lmao. jumping to perfect pitch conclusions is most absolutely a fad

[@stevennababan6159]

@@Kapiwolf123 Hmm, I agree. I also remember the Mozart's piano Concerto no.23 in A because of hearing it like hundred times. But thanks to that, now I can also know another pitch by hearing the intervals because of that A major.

[@Kapiwolf123]

​@@stevennababan6159 the key word here is "hearing". First of all, you "listen" to classical music, not "hear" it, which is a passive action as opposed to an active action. arguement ends there. you clearly aren't somebody to discuss serious musical matters with

[@FabioBadalamentiComposer]

Grazie Maestro.

[@MattScottMusic]

Ha! I love this series and you, Daniel Barenboim, for making it! But I feel the clarinettist, (no name?), plays a joke on you. You may have perfect pich, but you didn’t seem to notice that the atonal passage he chose is far more accessible and actually grounded in a tonal centre than the earlier bits.

[@lucasnering7353]

Maestro, you should do five minutes on Beethoven's Hammerklavier.

[@juancarlossanchez7318]

Maestro Barenboim, existe la posibilidad de que haya una relación entre el serialismo de Schoenberg y la obra del gran músico mexicano Julián Carrillo? ( sonido 13)

[@LendallPitts]

The desire to "find home" is related to what Sigmund Freud called the Wiederholungszwang, the compulsion to repeat, which he suggested was a manifestation of the death drive (Todestrieb). The desire to have the comforting reassurance of "home," the homeostasis of home, is the death drive. Schoenberg changed all that in many ways, first by saying that there is no need for music to return to a key center (C, F#, whatever) but rather that it is the relationship among tones, the intervals, that is important. Second he eschewed the old sonata A-B-A structure by adopting the strategy of continuous variation. The best music is the music that is always moving forward into new vistas, taking from its last manifestation and bounding forward into new possibilities.

[@Yazerhoun]

Avtually he's not the one who abandoned the sonata form to replace it with a soet of variations. Liszt did that way before him, and Wagner after him. They still made tonal music (except Liszt towards the end of his life). I guess what I'm trying to say is that the form isn't that important. It's more about tonality. The home keys and beyond versus the 12 tones

[@nicolassimion6967]

hi you guys, what was the "atonal" piece played on clarinet ? sounded pretty good !

[@diallobanksmusic]

Nicolas Simion Dialougue de l’ombre double

[@Gwailo54]

Dialougue de l’ombre double needs to be heard in the concert hall as the material is bounced around several speakers. It is quite astounding live.

[@nichttuntun3364]

Fascinating.

[@nicolassimion6967]

by the way max.....the 6th symphony by beethoven it's in F major....and the clarinet player played it in Bb major I guess....that's why mr barenboim said that he played it in a wrong key !

[@miguelsuarez8010]

I enjoy playing on the flute the Syrinx by Debussy. It is not clear to me if Debussy and the other impressionistic composers are tonal or atonal.

[@dsthorp]

Brilliant!

[@ericrakestraw664]

For just a second, I thought I was listening to the theme from "Mission Impossible" (trill on the note D).

[@dschinghiskhan5752]

Que gran invento y que polémico la música atonal. A mi personalmente es d ela música que mas me fascina

[@chrisczajasager]

a delight and immediate exposition of the emancipation of dissonace and 'atonical' creations.What a treasure having the genius of Daniel Barenboim !

[@ewhyte8059]

Atonal music is pre- life and post-life. From a human perspective tonal music expresses everything in life atonal music expresses everything outside of life.

[@dschinghiskhan5752]

Maestro. Que gran labor está haciendo al acercar esta música al gran público que ya de por sí suele rechazar sin conocer. Ojalá las próximas generaciones estén abiertas a todo tipo de música para así que puedan distinguir entre buena y mala calidad . Y esperemos que elijan la primera. Soy una estudiante de Conservatorio,toco viola y tengo 14 años. Amo la música de vanguardia y por supuesto la clásica. Pero tambien el buen pop, el jazz, el blues y otros tipos de música menos académicos. Por supuesto siempre intento elegir la música de mejor calidad, aunque a veces me toca tragarme la que no es buena... Así que siga así y que conste que ninguna música (independientemente de su calidad,estilo, o epoca ) pertenecen a ninguna clase social determinada. VIVA LA BUENA MUSICA😍😍😍😍

[@FredHMusic-gr7nu]

But where is the boundary between atonal music and noise?

[@ajabisong]

Friedrich Hueppe There isn't any. That's the wonder of it, that's the beauty of it. Boundaries are illusions that exist in our minds.

[@FredHMusic-gr7nu]

It really makes you wonder why a Beethoven sonata is more popular than Schoenberg and The Liszt Sonata more popular than Messiaen...

[@ajabisong]

Same reason why BACH is more intricate than CHOPIN. The human mind prefers what appears more fathomable.

[@FredHMusic-gr7nu]

Edmund Aja-Bisong Jr. Atonal music is quite a specialist niche area of classical music for casual listeners. Unless the program behind the music is explained very well, it is difficult to introduce people to the world of serialism. Baroque, classical and romantic music doesn't have that hurdle. Hence its more popular with so many more people.

[@ajabisong]

Friedrich Hueppe I agree with you. But we must look into the lives of these composers, then atonal music becomes easier to understand. On the level of the epidermis; you're right.

[@amirevaniandstudents9277]

The main reason for the failure of modern music is the lack of a clear framework between sounds to judge it. When you have a home (here it is tonic key), the correct path or paths to reach that home are visible and therefore can be judged. But when you do not have a home, you can go wherever you want from any direction, and finally, if someone asks you what are you doing, you answer that I do whatever I want and I have no goal! This is where music and art in general get into trouble! When no framework is in place, what is produced is an amorphous mass. And this is the problem that has misled not only music, but also painting and sculpture.

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

is it "modern"? I think not.

[@bertrandheraud8566]

toujours, les domaines me font penser aux 3 pieces de stravinsky comme si boulez ne pouvait pas s'en extraire ou alors c'est la part de "confort" de cette musique...

[@hectorpereira9117]

Buenas noches Daniel. A pesar de su esfuerzo, lamento decirle que ni a mí ni a mí oído nos agrada lo compuesto después de 1910 basado en el sistema dodecafónico. Soy del Barroco y del Clacisismo. Vivaldi y Mozart. Bach y Beethoven........ Un abrazo grande desde Uruguay: Héctor

[@floxy20]

Perhaps this music could be used in films to establish a mood but I pity anyone stuck in a concert hall who had to sit through a performance of it.

[@gjeacocke]

Playing a piece a thousand times can gain you what exactly? Is there real meaning in performing a piece so perfectly yet ppl refuse to perfect love? Is art higher than love now?

[@brunoescoto9630]

Art has always been above love.

[@willdon.1279]

@@brunoescoto9630 "About" for me at least.

[@ericdew2021]

I listen to many "classical" or "serious" music written post-1910: Stravinsky, Copeland, Barber, Adams, Korngold, and many others who now write for film: Morricone, Williams, Zimmer...

[@ellojayar]

Please check the audio balance in the next videos!

[@maurosmorto]

No, that was indeed the correct clarinet start. Am I wrong?

[@maxbbb4435]

I don't understand why Barenboim said the clarinet excerpt is in wrong key.

[@maxbbb4435]

This excerpt is for B flat clarinet and he played on a B flat clarinet. Thus it is my understanding you can say he is out of tune but it is in the correct key.

[@RgT737]

When you are playing something in the wrong key, it means that the melody is transposed to another key than the original. You can play in the wrong key with a B flat clarinet He starts with the note D, in the original the melody starts with an A.

[@maxbbb4435]

You are wrong. Please check the sheet music of this excerpt. He played in the correct key and the melody starts with the note D (concert pitch, E on B flat clarinet). orchestraexcerpts.com/clarinet-beethoven-symphony-no-6-mvt-2-excerpts/

[@RgT737]

This is not the excerpt he plays.

[@maxbbb4435]

Of course it is. This is THE most famous excerpt for clarinet. Both you and Barenboim mistakenly thought he played the beginning of this symphony. However, the beginning melody is not a solo passage for clarinet. If you still don't understand, please check the full score or the clarinet part.

[@tmjavier]

Why these horrible commercial automatic adds? (I make reference to the videos that compare automatically at the end of your short video) It's really a pity!

[@bennemann]

Three years ago you commented: "Why these horrible commercial automatic adds?" You can disable KZbin ads by installing the Adblock Plus extension (it's free). Enjoy your vastly superior KZbin experience!

[@tmjavier]

@@bennemann Thanks for the tip!

[@hansongnaily]

Even chaos in nature has a pattern...

[@zacdostal3989]

What kind of clarinet is that?

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

German system

[@daniellerouaix4326]

on aimerait bien des traductions en français. Merci

[@ALoonwolf]

Plays music that sounds like a child randomly playing notes... "I hope this convinces you to go and listen to more of this."

[@Recorder-e3e]

Qué lástima que no se expresa en castellano, tal su idioma maternal, nacido en Buenos Aires, Argentina.

[@christianrupp4006]

He speaks in English so that more people can understand him

[@李德胜-r8m]

为啥没英语字幕?

[@RollaArtis]

After 1910 - OK lets see. What about some music by the Beatles? If I play one of their hits and don't finish the song, hey presto it will be atonal.

[@johnbarry5036]

5:00 nope. Totally disagree. Ppl like those prev 2 samples because they are MELODIC. I can hum that tune. I cannot hum a cat walking on a piano keyboard. Sorry.

[@polenc7167]

Serial music derived from millenianostic thinking. That is, that this is a whole new era and all from the past should be thrown out-- that we should start from scratch. For example, to used a related example, we could do away with the family. Men would then live with the men's work brigade. Women with the women's work brigade and so on. Does this sound appealing?

[@bsmusicd]

Incorrect. As the Maestro explains, Schoenberg believed it was the inevitable next step after the chromaticism of Wagner.

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

@@bsmusicd and he was dead wrong. he also wrote that he had discovered something to "guarantee the supremacy of German music for 1000 years" Did he?

[@Chopin4321]

no, bach, mozart, beethoven or chopin rather changed the direction of music.

[@levelc8239]

for an old man hes pretty funny lmao

[@martinsaroch3512]

You see and there is the real problem with atonal music. It is mostly indistinguishable. You can recognise Pastoral symphony after two bars of music, but even Barenboim can't tell you name of atonal piece the clarinettist is playing even the piece itself doesn't soud bad.

[@ckarav9920]

Quite true, but some are more recognizable, like Schoenbergs piano concerto or the beginning of lizsts Faust symphony

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

there is a reason for that. MATH. Avoiding a semblance of tonality limits the composer's choices for adjacent intervals.( don't want it to sound tonal by accident!) Consequently much of the style sounds alike.

[@classicalroach]

That was the wrong key! Huh huh huh huh lol

[@zvonimirtosic6171]

Pretentious kids are so self-absorbed thinking their garbage ideas and playing is monumental, that they don't even know what is pitch, or the miss of it. This is modern deconstructionist culture and false sense of entitlement at its worst!

[@disastermaster596]

Describing atonal music as an "evolutionary step" is quite fitting. Darwinism, Post-Modernism, Existentialism, Deconstruction, Critical Theory...The West throws off all structure, all reason, all Truth, all beauty and is forced to praise its own chaotic nothingness.

[@OdinComposer]

Atonal music is modernist, not postmodernist. It's more like the west's cry for help, at least initially.

[@joejohnson2814]

In the wrong key lol, I wonder if he was kidding in his.

[@ignasisimon]

No, he wasn't. Originally the Pastoral starts in F major, and the oboe (or clarinet) player plays it 5 half tones higher, in B flat

[@joejohnson2814]

@@ignasisimon Thanks

[@13TrafalgarLaw]

The problem is that my perfect tunned ears reject the music after 1910 with exception on Rachmaninof, Pulenc. They accept only the best music with tonality with the a-tonality my ears listen crazy notes jumping everywhere and they think the creator was unskilled to write.

[@ezequielstepanenko3229]

do you consider Schönberg unskilled to write? Really??? The guy who wrote several books with more than a thousand pages on harmony, composition, counterpoint, instrumentation, etc,.

[@tulliusagrippa5752]

Boulez didn’t write music. He wrote irritating white noise. That’s not talent. How the French say? C’est merd.

[@polenc7167]

Tonality was not invented, arbitrarily, as atonality fans suggest, it was discovered, gradually and imperceptibly from generation to generation. The progress of tonal music from the middle ages onward was measured in degrees not revolutionary development. To suggest that tonality is obsolete or even that it is a viable alternative is like, for example, saying the nuclear and extended family should be replaced by a system where men live in a men's work brigade, women should live in a women's work brigade and children, well you get the idea. Yes, atonality has a place in horror films where it accurately depicts the state of mind of the very evil, the deranged or the entirely misguided but lethal do-gooder. Yes, atonality has its place, but not at my place.

[@HonestSaxSound-unEdited-]

ATONAL PHILOSOPHY =RELATIVISM. DODECAFONISM = CONFUSION (don't feels whel) NOT ABLE TO BUILD THE HUMAN SOUL. Can you imagine a worship with atonals?? Horrendous!

[@JordiFranchParella]

Let's see. To say that atonal music after 1910 is music with a century of history and, for this argument, pretend to attribute it a "senior category", is nonsense. The final classification of music is not between tonal music and atonal music, but between sound music and unsound music. There is good music and there is bad music. And let's state it clearly: atonal music is (mostly) bad music. Atonal music is (mostly) horrendous music. Of course, not all tonal music is good music. There is a lot of tonal music that is awful. But the great music is in Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms... ... ... All is tonal music. To make a comparison. In economics, the defense of the private property is a must. Good economics and good social and economic results always depend on the existence and preservation of private property. That's usually known as a market economy. Of course you can be a communist and deny the right of private property, letting the State take an omnipotent power in society. That's the most abhorrent and infamous mistake. Take USSR, for instance. Then, atonal music and communism are nonsense. Worse than that, both are a gross mistake.

[@ckarav9920]

You certainly made a comparison, but it is not clear how the two situations are at all similar. Simply saying "this is a mistake, like atonality, therefore both are horrible mistakes" makes little sense. You explain the economic mistake better than the musical one anyway.

[@killboybands1]

Ridiculous. Shostakovich and Prokofiev were repeatedly compromised by Stalin and the totalitarian dogma of socialist realism. Their lives were ruled by fear and were unable to compose as they wanted. Great Music is Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms...AND Mahler, Ives, Schoenberg, Berg, Riech, Varèse, Hass, Charles Mingus, Giacinto Scelsi, Xenakis, Schnittke, Vivier, The Beatles, George Perle, Feldman, Glenn Branca Gagaku...etc. What's nonsense is how much you value your own ignorance and that it should be the standard for others to follow. I can never understand what makes people seem to think that all art should be approached in such narrow terms while making blanket statements about other forms that achieve such variety and genius as if there's a defined standard of objectivity that everyone should follow. A kind of musical bigotry, it's ridiculous and counterproductive. I find that Georg Crumb's 'Black Angels' is one of the most extraordinary and expressive pieces of music I've ever heard. I feel the same about Miles Davis's 'Flamenco Sketches'. Two completely different approaches and completely different pieces of music. Both are beautiful..but one is terrifying and the other is sublime, both are stunning If you have trouble with the atonal approach than don't listen to it. Calling it nonsense is stupid and is beneath your intelligence. It's not that difficult.

[@Chopin4321]

no, atonal is inferior music, it is way closer to noise than to beauty, it is very poor or lacks harmony... which is one of the 3 elements of music, it is wrong to call this music modern and wide open world... mozart is modern and a wide open world still to discover , any mozart, all mozart...and bach...beethoven...chopin...just need a life time for each...why waste it...silence refreshes more than deconstructing beauty.

[@johnappleseed8369]

....in your opinion

[@Chopin4321]

what would you listen to in the last day of your life? i would surely listen to a bit of silence to the harmonic chant of birds, of wind, of my breathing to the memory of the inflections of both my parents loving voices to a bit of mozart´s magic flute opera...to his clarinet concerto to some chopin nocturnes...to his funeral march...to his berceuse

[@koskokos0540]

> to the harmonic chant of birds I like the birds singing very much but this exact phrase brings on my mind Ravel's Mirroirs. Aren't these a beautiful pieces on your opinion? For me they are and, while they are notated with keys, I cannot distinguish tonalities in many places like e.g. in Beethoven sonatas. > to his funeral march Chopin has at least two of them =) And, if talking about music with 'funeral sounding' so to say, there is a brilliant totally atonal prelude from Roslavets. Imo there is really plenty of not clearly tonal music that sounds nice, although I failed to find the beauty in Shoenberg and 12-tone music; one should evolve like impressionists or russian futurists, not break like Shoenberg.

[@nicolasdelorenzini8222]

no music is inferior to each other....you just don't like it or don't yet understand it

[@ckarav9920]

The three "elements" of music are not nearly as universally accepted as your comment makes it seem. Also, 12 tone music that focuses on atonality does have harmony in the traditional sense. What it tends to lack is consonance. Personally, I wouldn't listen to atonal music on my last day alive either, but this does not prove it is inferior. Why does music have to be pastoral or beautiful in a simple way? Can't it be scary, unsettling, or threatening too? I find 12 tone music to be one of several good ways to do these things.

[@Mau365PP]

I dont buy it, atonal is bullshit