TF2: Heavy's Problematic Secondary

[@DaRkLoRdZoRc]

Oh yeah, because making the Heavy unable to shoot AND take more damage AND saddling him with his worst edible secondary doesn't at all counteract the "overpoweredness" of him being able to move at the speed of a snail rather than a glacier.

[@numbug1234]

The GRU, which caused all three of the things before the change, was overpowered in any map where you needed to walk a fair distance. So any map where it would take roughly 16 seconds to get to the battlefield (or more) with the steak is a situation where the steak neutralises the Heavy's downsides for no additional downside to compensate. And if it's earlier, he can still wait just outside the danger zone for it to fade away.

[@my_cellium]

The steak is unbalanced because none of the downsides matter at the start of a match. Melee only? No enemies are going to be in the rollout. More damage? Again, it's a rollout. Having a heavy at mid in 5cp slows down the game and denies half of the classes in 6s.

[@taptiotrevizo9415]

@@my_cellium That like one situation where its useful

[@remito7839]

@@taptiotrevizo9415 Yeah. But it's a situation you have at the start of most competitive matches. And after the initial rollout you can simply change to a different loadout on respawn.

[@kingofnova673]

glacier move very very fast though roughly 60mph :p but yea

[@_ara0n_671]

well the tradeoff for gru was also the melee slot (which was useless as heavy exept for gru, fist of steel and KGB) but the buffalo takes also the secondary slot which is really important as heavy, Sure you still can heal you teamates but you no longer are indepedent for healthpacks and medics. So in the end the main buffalo nerf is the lack of sustainability in the battlefield (heals or rollouts)and also being harmless to any flacking player during your rollout. So in my opinion it's quite balanced. (also because fist of steel are still OP)

[@Maceyoshiman]

I totally agree with this

[@kiluns9828]

Exactly what I was thinking, the steak got a real purpose now and that's cool, the sandvich is good for a teamplay Heavy. The banana & Chocolate are great for roamer/flank/without medic and the steack is now great for a very agressive playstyle while sacrifying some protection.

[@randytaylor-ny7tt]

Maybe someday there will be a day when you guys stop bithing about clasess being overpowered and at the same time forgeting about Soldier who is the most broken class in the game right now

[@StickMaster500]

With the secret buff that the Buffalo Steak Sandvich got, I think I will actually use this lunchbox item much more now.

[@baghead8153]

StickMaster500 I don't see 1 extra second and 5% less damage taken to be that big of a deal.

[@toadbros5295]

How.

[@nathaniellefebvre342]

They removed the damage penalty.

[@my_cellium]

we dont want it to be better though, we want to nerf it

[@abicto]

@@my_cellium not nerf it but change it

[@jmax1245]

What if the buffalo steak sandvich lasts such a long time that it actually messes up the roll out something like 21 seconds.

[@yuiz5489]

tbh, i think the bss needs its damage vuln removed, its duration increased drastically, and the speed buff increased just slightly. i think that would help discourage its use in roll outs and further reward the subclass playstyle it was designed to work with

[@Raccoonik]

A simple but possibly effective change. If the duration lasts longer then the time it takes to run to the front line, then you might as well had done it normally with a better secondary.

[@my_cellium]

How much longer?

[@my_cellium]

You aren't seeing the problem. The Buffalo Steak shouldn't be buffed. It should be nerfed.

[@taptiotrevizo9415]

@@my_cellium What the rollout only works because of 16 second timer ending at mid-point, making it way longer will neuter the rollout while buffing it a lot.

[@celestia.27]

ZentoZekto why should it be nerfed? the thing is already useless outside of medieval mode and you want it to be even more useless?

[@moonmelons]

There's something important to keep in mind, you are ONLY looking at rollouts because that's the only small use the Steak could be used for. The reason for this being that if a Heavy is caught with the steak out he will be punished very hard because a Heavy that can only melee and takes 20% more damage is not a Heavy that's going to live for very long in a competitive environment if anybody gets close to him. Not to mention this still leaves the steak as useless in every game mode EXCEPT 5 cp. Now I will say that the Heavy doesn't really give up his Sandvich for this in a competitive environment, as for the most part in comp a Heavy's sandvich will be used on his team and not him (and the steak is pretty much a sandvich reskin when thrown). Plus a few things to remember are that: 1: Any mid that takes longer to get to than Badlands the Heavy will have to finish the trip on base movement speed. 2: Any mid that takes shorter to get to than Badlands the Heavy will have to artificially stay back doing nothing waiting for his steak to wear off, effectively lengthening his time taken to get to mid 3: A Gru'd up heavy was still the single slowest rollout in the entire game. If I was to suggest a nerf I'd suggest something Akin to the old equalizer downside where a buffalo steak heavy cannot be targeted by a medigun and maybe linger that around for a few seconds after they wear off. This won't impact heavy melee too much as they don't really play around a medic, but will be a big nerf to the rollout. Remember, with old GRU heavys WERE NOT arriving to mid with 300 hp, they were arriving to mid with 450 hp. Now they will be a bit slower than old GRU and arriving with 300 instead of 450 hp making them much easier to take out, and the steak will be practically useless for speed past the initial rollout. EDIT: And for consideration, a pocket solly will arrive to mid faster than a steak heavy and will arrive with 300 hp as well.

[@UncleDane]

I agree that the Buffalo Steak needs a rework. Going off of the goal to make it both centered around a "melee" Heavy, but also balancing it for competitive play, I'd suggest these stats for a reworked BSS: Eating the Buffalo Steak Sandvich gives you these effects for 15 seconds and you CAN switch to your primary weapon during the effect. + Melee weapons deal guaranteed mini-crits + You can jump 300% higher + While primary weapon is out and revved up, you can jump normally This would make the "melee heavy" gimmick still have a purpose, since he can now jump over enemies heads during combat as well as reach hard-to-access flank routes for more flank-focused strategies. It would also make an attacking Heavy slightly harder to hit due to his ability to jump while revved. Removing the speed boost would remove its overpowered utility in 6v6 5cp, but also make it a viable side-grade to the Sandvich if you value being able to jump around corners and over high ledges instead of regaining health.

[@genzo454]

I would love to have this in the game, just to see heavies moon-jumping across the map.

[@namelessnightingale8991]

this is a good idea, and i think that you could add to this, just my thoughts, i don't work on balancing items or anything like that, but this defiantly sounds like a good start, if not a good finish, although, a small speed boost, like making him just faster than a normal heavy would also be something that could be done, but nothing major, i don't know his current speed, but slightly faster might work.

[@angusmacdonald1715]

Uncle Dane keep a mild speed boost when fists out, else it will be useless in melee

[@buttersddragon]

Uncle Dane i think you should stick to engineer

[@WAtheAnum]

Dane, srsly, the problem is that do you *want* with a pogostick heavy? I will not say that the BSS is "fine" now but changing it that way makes more or less even more no sense to use it. As already in the video was said, changing the speed buff whould be the ultimative "kill" of this "weapon". what you tried there is actually a total change of it, which makes it even more worse. The BSS is already barely used for real since it gives better opinion but it doesnt make it to a bad weapon after all and overall. The problem is just that a lot things make this weapon looks bad in the other hand -you can only run very fast but only using melee for 15 seconds. -he also takes 25% more damage wile the weapon is out. If you actually read a bit "between the lines" it is kinda the "meat" version from Scouts old Crit-A-Cola, which got a (good) nerf in the last update but if you would nerf the BSS in the same way it would make nearly no sense to use it (meaning again removing the speedbuff). Wile i actually think the BSS is kinda ok in the state as it is, they might could make it a mix between the crit-a-cola and the actual bonk just for the heavy. the outcome could look like something like this: = 15 Seconds effect duration + eating it guaranteed mini-crits on melee weapons + you run 35% faster wile under the effect - Player can only use melee for the time of the duration - Player takes 25% more damage for the time of the duration - If the effect runs out, -25-35% speed for 3 seconds (an of course the throw things and what not here as co-stats) So it would be a mix up and you actually have to take more care if you eat it if i just add the 3 seconds slowdown after the effect runs out. So it would give the heavy a short burst to run and maybe attack but again after that hes kinda pretty slowed down if he just uses it to go on ramrage. I think that would at least make more sense then changing the BSS into a gumball...

[@ReshyShira]

Heavy isn't even that powerful, the nerfs were far too heavy-handed I felt. Rather than being usable, they seem to have basically made using them pointless. Especially the GRU which has several penalties on it besides for the max health penalty.

[@my_cellium]

No one uses the eviction notice and GRU for actual melee. If you would, most competent players would gun you down since you're slowly losing health, and still really slow. The 5 seconds of disabled max hp drain wouldn't do anything since it's rare you get a kill, and even if you would, that wouldn't matter because you're already at like, 200-100 health.

[@mommymothra]

easy give the Buffalo steak healing over time and remove the more damage taken making it good for falling back or to regroup with your team

[@gooeyllewy3729]

the only thing that makes this competitively viable is that it drops a medium health kit for your medic, just like the sandvich. drop the steak from medium to a small kit, but slightly boost the recharge. this actively makes it so heavy can have help on the rush to mid, but at the expense of an even moderately useful secondary

[@alexanderharrison7421]

The main downside of the steak is that it's not the Sandvich

[@DEWILL]

I didn’t expect that a spagetti can be tangled this much. It’s like fifth dimension moebius strip.

[@chesement4131]

nah, it wastes an incredibly important slot. sandwiches and shotgun are much less situationally useful, so it isnt really an unfair affect

[@appliedatoms7066]

I do think the BSS fails at what it intends to do, but I don't think the speed boost is a problem at all. You're looking at the weapon in a vacuum, where it's the last trade-speed-for-vulnerability weapon heavy has. But you're forgetting that if you use this, you can't use any other lunchbox item -- giving it the same sort of hidden downside as any medic primary that isn't the crossbow. The utility of the sandvich/banana or even the chocolate is so high that giving those up is a massive downside.

[@appliedatoms7066]

First off, those medic "fixes" only serve to completely change the way the character plays -- maybe have a new weapon that does that, but EVERY one? no way. Second, if the steak did that it would instantly become the best lunchbox, whether or not you're using it with the fists -- 150 overheal is ridiculously good. No -- if they want to make heavy into a fist-fighter, they need to give him a minigun replacement that works like the booties -- increases speed and maybe gives health-on-kill.

[@my_cellium]

haha yes lets make every class cluttered with random wacky zany alt fires!!! also if you use the tf2.5 argument, that doesnt mean that tf2.5 is a good idea.

[@tickercruse3177]

I got an idea, if heavy doesn’t kill anyone before the effect runs out he’ll be slowed by half for 5 secs This way if the steak is used in a rollout and negates the GRU’s effect the heavy will be almost immobile and unable to dodge

[@TheVodkaHaze]

Let's sum up the problems the BSS has overall: >Underpowered in casual due to its harsh damage penalty >Overpowered in competitive due to its speed boost So here are my proposed effects while under the BSS: +All damage dealt is mini-crits +Damage resistance of 20% -Players can only use melee weapons -Damage resistance does not stack with damage resistances from your melee weapons (this is to stop the FoS from becoming overpowered). That way Heavies can still use it in casual if they want to go for an alternative playstyle and the guys in competitive don't have to worry about a Heavy getting to mid early.

[@TheRealSpellstar]

the buffalo Steak Sandvich is now relevant, whereas before it was one of the lease equipped items in the game the GRU was the only relevant melee weapon for heavy before, and I'm glad they changed it so people will start using the others the Eviction Notice was an underpowered weapon that didn't need to be nerfed those are just my opinions

[@Banshee523]

You can't remove the increased move speed without destroying the intended purpose of this item. So what could be done is changing it so that it only takes effect if you've taken or dealt damage during the buff duration, making it impossible to abuse for rollouts. The move speed could also be increased to compensate for this change, and the hidden extra damage taken penalty could be removed entirely.

[@kanecombes8918]

I'd say make the bss more of a consistent hit snack item, have an initial speed boost between 5-10 seconds and when your punch does damage to someone, you get a larger speed boost. you know jump from 15% to 25 - 30%. you could have the punch boost last 5 - 10 seconds until the next punch. as for damage, that's still up in the air seeing as a reward of damage could become a problem. that's just my two cents, and anything can be changed.

[@kanecombes8918]

wouldn't that just make the dalokoh's bar obsolete?

[@kanecombes8918]

fair point

[@celestia.27]

honestly the only change i would make to the steak is to make the speed boost an "on hit" thing in exchange for swapping the vulnerability to a resistance

[@TheDunsparceGames]

random bss fact: back when the steak was first released, the speed boost from the steak stacked with the speed boost from the gru multiplicatively. this was removed like a month or two later but there are videos on youtube of a gru heavy eating the steak and outrunning a scout. yeah the steak was weird back then

[@zecaoalfredo4242]

They should change the buffalo stake to: give full kritz with the fists, 50 % damage resistence, 20 % speed boost but you r marked for death while your primary is out and a 20 % speed penalty 5 seconds after the effects go away.

[@ИванБаранцев-и1п]

Well, when the melee slot is used only for the utility weapons (Eviction notice, GRU, Fists of steel), the secondary slot can have the Banana or the Sandwich, so you trade higher potential health for the speedboost. So I think it's kinda balanced.

[@j100j]

the steak sandwich does not trade healthpool for mobility but it trades health regen by not letting you have sandwich.

[@gravygravyjosh]

The Steak replaces the secondary and has the downside that you can't switch from melee while active. GORU or Eviction Notice didn't really have a downside to counteract the speed buff

[@ant4767]

Something you forgot to mention is the opportunity cost of the Buffalo steak sandvich. For example, if you took the normal sandvich AND gru, you'd have a comparable rollout time (as it only takes 2 seconds to eat), and you'd have the normal sandvich as a backup for health once it recharges. Yes, the Buffalo steak sandvich gets you there and at full health 1 second faster, but its not very useful after that unless you're playing melee heavy.

[@ant4767]

If that doesn't make sense, because it didn't to me when I reread it, (and I'm the one who typed it) it's basically 20 seconds to get there with the gru and eat the sandvich, and 19 to get there with the buffalo, but if you take the sandvich you also have a health item for when you get there.

[@hermesy.c.9668]

They could make it so that you are marked for death during 8 seconds or more after the effect ends UNLESS you got a melee kill during the buff. That way it wouldn't discourage melee heavy, but it would discoure using it for rollout

[@brychtik7888]

I will remove the damage vulnerability and increase the speedboost to 320 hu/s in exchange of giving the buffalo steak sandwich same charging mechanic as the Gass passer has (on equip starts at 0% charge, no interaction with resuply locker or repawn/death, slowly charges over time, charge amount can be boosted by dealing damage)

[@brychtik7888]

Meaby remove: charge meter is not effected by death/repawn. (Charge meter WILL reset on death)

[@SirEnd3r]

Goal: Change heavy from a mighty glacier to more of a support/melee class Buffalo steak rework: Make primary Can freely switch between weapons Positives+ +Permanent effect on use +Faster switch speed +reduced secondary recharge rate Negatives- -Lose of primary weapon -effect lost on death

[@t-virus7098]

SirEnd3r not bad, but I feel like that defeats the og purpose of what the devs wanted the steak to be.

[@SirEnd3r]

I agree. But i'm not sure there is a way balance out heavy steak without changing its og purpose because its og purpose was to make heavy a melee oriented class in the same vein as demo knight but the problem with that is the steak is a better utility because of its speed and it doesn't take away heavy's ranged weapon which is a problem because heavy's only weakness is his speed. so if you take the speed away than you have a useless item if you take away his primary than you have a useless item because all he becomes a fat scout or a hoovy. One change to my states could make it more og purpose but than there is no point in using the sandvich; remove the secondary recharge rate and make it only able to use their melee.

[@somuchtocook9159]

Hey umm how about we give the weapons a damage buff when equipped and the Buffalo steak could have a health and a speed version where the speed saps away the health per second of use till heavy has the health of an engineer and the health variation is basically buff dalokas bar and more focused on reducing actual speed so heavy becomes a tank but it brings his speed down So we can have hit and run heavy and mega tank heavy

[@Raccoonik]

I love the idea of the hibernating bear load out. Sitting in the same spot with your mini gun out "hibernating" then eating the buffalo sandvich and going on a mad peyote fueled punching spree. So maybe it should work a little more like the Pyro's phlog. You need to do a certain amount of damage before you're allowed to eat it. And then Valve could add more buffs to its effects since you need to reach the front line and play normal mini gun Heavy for a while before you're allowed to use the fast moving melee Heavy sub class, which honestly would probably end by being shut down by a Pryo or normal Heavy anyway.

[@gronaldbibinsky6409]

Pretty much the majority of Heavy's melee weapons are a mess. They either need drastic rebalances or completely new stats, and are typically juggled around every update.

[@SpookySkeletonGang]

is it broken? literally yeah, the speed buffs from it make no sense. Is it still significantly worse then what the gru used to be? yes. while rolling out to the point fast is a great thing to have, the main use for the gru or the eviction notice was using it to get around for the whole round, not just the first 20 seconds. having heavy roll out slower but be able to get a speed buff while his health is slowly drained is WAY better for the whole match.

[@drgore1797]

But that timing doesn't count time spent eating, which doesn't matter at the start of the round but does in subsequent spawns

[@adamarato17]

Yeah, you still get the speed boost without losing health, but you give up the sandwich which stops you from regening health

[@rockowlgamer631]

I like the speed it provides, yes you're reduced to melee but that depends on what you use, plus the BSS doesn't give any health to the Heavy, so now its a decision on whether you use ur sandvich and go on a killing spree with your fists or give the sandvich to your teammates when they need it

[@ethancollins4593]

Strongly disagree here. Consider the opportunity cost of using the BSS. You forgo either a shotgun or a health boosting edible. I think a speed boosting secondary is balanced, considering how crazily powerful the alternatives are (I'm looking at you, sammich).

[@quenquent95]

The damage vulnerability was removed on the Jungle Inferno update, and the speed is spaghetti because the Steak's speed bonus is hardcoded (instead of doing "You increase your speed by X% or by X", the TFTeam did "You increase your speed to X") It is true that the Steak does offer mobility for almost no cost when you first look at it, but you can't use it fast between fights compared to the GRU and Eviction Notice. Eating the Steak takes time. The main problem I have with this weapon is : what's the point of going melee when you have a Minigun ? It's the same problem with the shotguns Heavy have. Until the Heavy gets a passive primary, the Steak and the shotguns will be useless from him, and items like the Sanvish, the Dalokhos bar and the Second Banana will be the ony secondary used.

[@7UPDoge]

Give the steak the same passive as the katana, the effect only goes away on kill or death

[@drbritish5016]

Personally, I think that it's got a Perfectly balanced due to the fact that you wouldn't have the a full healthpack on you at all times meaning you rely more on medics and medipacks making you and easier target. Also the reason that the Gloves of running urgently and the eviction notice where so good was not just because of the rollout capabilites but the speed increase ment faster pushes inbetween points or chokes which the new balance to the weapons stops. This is where the steaks downsides make it a balanced weapon, not being about to use your primary and having damage vulnerability stops it from being viable on some competative maps but on koth maps it is quite strong for a rollout.

[@WAtheAnum]

@Dane, srsly, the problem is that do you *want* with a pogostick heavy? I will not say that the BSS is "fine" now but changing it that way makes more or less even more no sense to use it. As already in the video was said, changing the speed buff whould be the ultimative "kill" of this "weapon". what you tried there is actually a total change of it, which makes it even more worse. The BSS is already barely used for real since it gives better opinion but it doesnt make it to a bad weapon after all and overall. The problem is just that a lot things make this weapon looks bad in the other hand -you can only run very fast but only using melee for 15 seconds. -he also takes 25% more damage wile the weapon is out. If you actually read a bit "between the lines" it is kinda the "meat" version from Scouts old Crit-A-Cola, which got a (good) nerf in the last update but if you would nerf the BSS in the same way it would make nearly no sense to use it (meaning again removing the speedbuff). Wile i actually think the BSS is kinda ok in the state as it is, they might could make it a mix between the crit-a-cola and the actual bonk just for the heavy. the outcome could look like something like this: = 15 Seconds effect duration + eating it guaranteed mini-crits on melee weapons + you run 35% faster wile under the effect - Player can only use melee for the time of the duration - Player takes 25% more damage for the time of the duration - If the effect runs out, -25-35% speed for 3 seconds (an of course the throw things and what not here as co-stats) So it would be a mix up and you actually have to take more care if you eat it if i just add the 3 seconds slowdown after the effect runs out. So it would give the heavy a short burst to run and maybe attack but again after that hes kinda pretty slowed down if he just uses it to go on ramrage. I think that would at least make more sense then changing the BSS into a gumball...

[@PolitictalDipsit]

How to buff this weapon 1. MORE DURATION 2. U WILL HAVE A HOLSTER SPEED AFTER THE EFFECT 3. REMOVE OR DECREASE THE VULNERABILITY

[@MYG]

Ok I've got an idea for a rework: make the damage taken stat a bit less bc the item being melee only is bad enough and have it be that you have the whip effect for like 2 seconds or two whenever you take damage, since heavy can't deal self damage easily this will make the class only go faster when in combat. I recommend calling the whip effect enrage.

[@An_Ian]

So I can sacrifice the power to heal myself for the power to get to the front lines a few seconds faster...

[@Menoly]

They never told us what was in the heavy food and what in the tf2 universe explains crits?

[@michaelbowman6684]

Banana if you're alone. Steak if you have a dedicated pocket. Chocolate if you are facing a skilled Sniper. Sandwich seems pretty weak right now, simply because it doesn't excel at anything, it's just "good" at most things. All the other lunchbox items are better depending on the situation.

[@aaronandrews5648]

Does that mean that I can go faster than pyro with heavy with bss and bhop?

[@NullG7]

Honestly? If I were to rework this I would make it so that it just grants the guaranteed mini-crits a speed boost on hit instead just of being passive and remove the damage vulnerability it gives you. Put this in with a rework to speed effects so that they're more consistent and so that the speed cap for heavy (and everyone else) is consistent. Whether or not the speed on hit should stack with the speed on hit the eviction notice grants you would depend on the speed cap and if heavy is hitting it already. If this ends up being under powered, which would be determined after letting this go live for a while and looking for feedback, I would make it so the weapon would give a health boost on kill, much like the half zatoichi, the warriors spirit, and the powerjack do, probably by 50 hp but I would be flexible with that and willing to bring it up to 75 hp or down to 30 hp. Not only would this turn the weapon more into a "win more" weapon for heavy, but it would also work very well with the original intended set melee of the warriors spirit, because getting a kill with the warriors spirit would give you a very large health boost which will go a long way to negate the downside of the warriors spirit by allowing you to recover the lost health and build it up beyond your normal pool of 300 to soak a bit by commuting your secondary weapon, instead of how it actually works against you with the current build by turning the heavy into a wet tissue because of the stacked damage vulnerabilities.

[@warrior1590]

While buffalo stake sandwich may be great, you sacrifice Bannana or Sandvich for it. You sacrifice survivability and a clutch for medic for speed, along with fists of steel, might a good roll out.

[@datguy8805]

I have an idea, perhaps a smaller duration but larger or the same speed bonus will work.

[@DivingHawker]

Maybe, but you're giving up your sandwich for this very situational weapon.

[@hylianmango8272]

Make it like the gas passer in the way that it isnt available right when spawn happens

[@Ydanay9]

Can we acknowledge how much he got done at such low health at the end of the video though

[@dicktsui1818]

I once tried to play heavy and get a full health pack when I'm at 13 hp, and a scunt stole it right away

[@dim.S.B.]

Do you read comments three years in the future??

[@Maxdepier]

hmm, you think you can make a dedicated video about the pyro's new wep (i forgot it's name) vs stock flame thrower with the advantage and upside of each, especially since there's alot of word going around that the dragon's mouth (don't think that's the right now) is op, so it'll be nice to get your point on it

[@jamesverner9132]

As of late 2018....Candy cane, warriors spirit, Pain train, Escape plan, crit-a-cola, southern hospitality, power-jack, clada mor and Buffalo steak sandvich. (sorry if i missed any) These are the weapons with Damage Vulnerability stats or mechanics. Four of the weapons are melee and speed related now I think we can all agree that this is telling us not to draw these weapons in a shooter when you can just shoot at them. This is why the best way to use them is out of combat or to escape combat. If the devs wanted heavy to be punch happy with the beef then. Here is how I would change it. 1. NO SPEED BOOST Or Damage venerability.... THAT'S WHAT THE GRU , Warriors Spirit and Eviction Notice are for. 2. Immunity to all knock back for 16 seconds, melee only with mini-crits and 20% damage resistance. 3. Increase eating speed to two seconds / or maybe one second. 4. Keep alt-fire as medium heath pack. 5. Finally, Always deactivate all active effects when you scroll to a different weapon. The other goals of the changes is to create a buffed tank that is steadfast and needs to be killed in order to be removed from the point. As the tank you need to hold you ground and absorb damage. So this "meal" should help achieve this. This makes Sandvich good for recovery while on defense. The Chocolate is good for attacking at long range (if max heath boost was plus 75 to 100 in my opinion). The Steak becomes a short range charge attack that will improve your fights with pyros, sentrys and any fights near death pits. 1. NO SPEED BOOST Or Danmage vaneribility.... THAT'S W

[@Chaud31423]

I think the steak should take significantly less time to eat

[@dcastro8629]

I think the steak is just fine. speed at the cost of it only being temporary and leaving you vulnerable with only your melee as opposed to the GRU preupdate with the constant speed and able to switch weapons. I say it's balanced tbh

[@blob5907]

please somebody realize the effectiveness of panic attack heavy with warriors spirit. The warriors spirit damge vulnerability is nullified by the panic attakcs faster switch speed. 2 shots switch to melee strike once and switch back 50% faster. The health on kill really helps make the most of the shotgun heavy playstyle. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Somebody notice this. Every youtuber Ive seen talk about the warriors spirit neglects any other play style than that with the buffalo steak.

[@u8qu1tis]

None of the speed buff items stack in any logical way. Also, is the Enforcer working properly?

[@Chr0n0s38]

Enforcer is still broken. Unfortunately.

[@AshnSilvercorp]

the spycicle broke too. You take like half of your HP in fire damage before it even triggers...

[@ahbraveconscript997]

negative to steak is that it doesn't heal heavy. once you at mid you are left with a half a sandwich (can only heal others).

[@splish8869]

Now that the JungInf update has came ages gone, I think it's important to think about how valve can rework heavy in his upcoming update to bring him closer to a generalist and more fun to play. I personally think heavy should have satisfying damage and movement option that, are unique to heavy, keep him in his defensive class roll and take skill (this was more directed towards movement and is not to say tracking and good positioning don't require skill). Whatever valve has planned for their upcoming heavy rework should also give him a viable movement option in a way that's not just buffing his main downside as a class (speeding up his slow movement to an average speed).

[@MYG]

Didn't know you could still get the nommed steak sandvich

[@MrPatters]

Bronzewarrior All the nom models are back as of Jungle Inferno.

[@MYG]

This is good, now we just need the broken bottles back for the demo.

[@dustinL]

*They are all back.

[@consta-lume]

Broken bottle was also fixed and re-added

[@MYG]

ok, this is the best update 10/10 would break bottles again.

[@shenko_]

I would switch the speed boost out with damage resistance for 16 seconds in order to get up close to punch ppl.

[@oldieal7032]

The Heavy moves at 230 HU/s. The Eviction Notice gives the Heavy a +15% movement speed buff, increasing his speed to 264.5 HU/s The Gloves of Running Urgently give the Heavy a +30% movement speed buff, increasing his speed to 299 HU/s. The Buffalo Steak Sandvich gives the Heavy a +35% movement speed buff, increasing his speed to 310.5 HU/s. The Concheror and the Disciplinary Action give the Heavy a +40% movement speed buff, increasing his speed to 322 HU/s.

[@coffeeluci]

mmm, yes, because locking the heavy to melee ( his worst weaponry ), making him more vulnerable to damage, and having him not able to heal himself is worth the same speed as the GRU, which had it's problem being that you could switch off it with no penalty when the Steak is unable to let you switch until it's done and has an eating animation to go through first. I know the steak could be good for exiting the gate on a large map, but if you do anything that has your objective out of spawn ( such as defense on any game mode ) or if you play Capture the Flag ( which sucks ) then you have no reason to bring it. At least with the GRU you could switch to it to run away, but you have to eat the Steak for 2 seconds, and all it does is force you to use an Escape Plan for 16 seconds. It can be useful, yes, but literally every other secondary is better

[@rockowlgamer631]

what i dont like about the GRU and Eviction Notice is the intial 30 hp drop you get when using the melee, then it drains after that shouldnt it start at 300? like the stats say?

[@benoitelizondo6214]

I kinda want a punch heavy subclass so here's how I would rework the steak: +When eaten you have 100% minicrits as long as you have your melee out. +You gain a speed boost for ~30 sec (or maybe longer) as long as you have your melee out. -When time runs out, or you holster your weapon there is a speed reduction based on how long the steak was in use (10%-40% of the heavy's base speed) - 100% longer intinial holster time after use Finally the recharge rate of the steak decreases the more damage you do while under its effect (up to 75%) If valve wanted this weapon to serve as a way to promote heavy using his melee these stats would (in my opinion) be a step in the right direction. It would encourage using your fists since the effects of the steak last longer and recharges faster the more damage you do. It would also discourage using it to simply get to the battlefield faster since players would receive a speed reduction and longer holster time, leaving them vulnerable.

[@thefireslime-mc1041]

Have you considered the "no sandvich" problem with the steak?

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

You bloody genius! I can't believe I didn't see this before! Bear hoovie is back (at least using the steak)!

[@TigerKirby215]

You forget one crucial point: it's not the other Lunchboxes. To be fair you can still drop a medium healthkit with the Steak which is kinda the main use of the Sandvich in competetive, but you still lack any sort of self heal to speak of. Also the damage vulnerability was removed in JI. :V If I was to rebalance the Steak as someone who actually uses it quite frequently, I'd do the following: +All its current stats. Yes, all of them. +50% crowd control (knockback and slows) resistance -Only drops a small medkit when thrown (and can not be eaten for health) This would make it much easier to play melee Heavy (as one of the biggest issue with any melee loadout is the oodles of Soldiers and Pyros trying to ruin your fun) while at the same time also nerfing this weapon's competetive viability so that competetively it's seen as the "faster rollout weapon" while the Sandvich is still the crown prince of "I'm technically a support class." I'd honestly even be willing to bump the speed up a bit at the cost of a shorter item duration or the damage vulnerability coming back. You should really be able to reach normal movement speed (if only for chasing) with the Steak. I'd also really like to see some Knockback Resistance given to the Demo's boot items to make Demoknight less of a beanbag to be thrown around by Pyros and Soldiers. It would also give the boots more of a use for non Demoknight play for Uber pushes.

[@DragonCraftor]

Without changing the stats, Valve could just remove Heavy's abilitie to eat the Buffalo Steak before starting his rollout, so that if the Heavy wants to eat it to get faster to the frontline, he will be stuck at spawn during at least 3 seconds. Seems balance to me that way

[@holisticpsychologybyobrien]

Where is the poison gas weapon for the Pyro?

[@0mger]

make the effect last 25-30 seconds so you'd have to commit to punching like it's intended to edit: and maybe reduce the damage taken penalty to 10%

[@MrHehehe668]

I'd suggest to nerf the duration but extend it for every kill the heavy gets, to slow down his rollout while still being “viable“ in fights. (Maybe give it a duration of 5 seconds and increase it by 3 for every kill)

[@Adusakful]

I guess it's lil too late to comment now... but I think buffalo steak's trade off is just that you're getting rid of Sandwich (or Second Banana). Change they should make is to make impossible to drop Buffalo Steak on the ground or it should be like Dalokohs (small health kit). Why? Well, I guess that in comp enviroment (I never played it but I think it could be like that) Sandwich was the most used lunchbox item or overall secondary on Heavy, before GRU nerf, because of "drop it for your medic" abillity. Steak does the same as sandwich but it gives you and your medic speed buff when he's healing you. That's why they should change it that way, because in comp you would think twice before using buffalo steak (it heals less for your medic than sandwich in trade off for speed increase). In casual it would still work the same because if you already are running Buffalo steak for gimmick reasons you wouldn't really care about heal abillity of it, you would mostly care to just punch enemies off. Sorry for my English, I'm from Poland

[@nucleus691]

Now they just need to nerf the Tomislav and buff the Brass Beast and of course remove the Rev-up damage penalty.

[@steinarorstenvik]

It's just bit good enough anyway. It Should be buffed and recieve the persian persuader treatment, maybe being a passive effect or something. It's a meele heavy item in reality anyway. Arguably the kritzkrieg is better statted than the medigun, although you lose ubercharge. It's the same for the steak. Arguably it is better than shotgun, but it loses your main thing, your minigun. Why not be open about it? There is already a debuff to a heavy running at other classes who all have ranged weapons anyway. Item should capture the essence of less minigun more meele

[@theallseeingeye6825]

It sucks really because it is easily heavy's most delicious lunchbox item

[@laurensgorter]

well with the buffallo steak sandvich you still have a lower health pool but more speed just as with the GRU gloves the steak takes up the middle slot this makes you not able to heal by eating your banana or sandvich so buffallo steaks sandvich only usable effectivly in rollout for more speed but less health the entire time during combat GRU only usable effectivly in rollout but less health the moment after the rollout sandvich/banana usable in combat to regen by this giving you a larger heatlh pool ( a heavy taking 200 damage healing to full again and taking another 200 damamge still lives longer than the person using the buffallo stakes sandvich which takes 400 damage without healing from his sandvich inbetween) so basicly i still think the GRU is a better option to use than the steak during rollout also because you can heal the damage that you took from using the weapon by your secondary slot which isnt possible with the steak

[@maltewallin1116]

This video was very enlightening, keep it up!

[@janehuskmann1914]

Me, if I were a GRU or MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA Heavy, I'd pull them out for _part_ of ye trip. It's only a fraction of a second sooner I get there.

[@daniel9721]

But wouldn't not having a healing food item be a downside in itself?

[@hughjass3070]

What's the flute theme you have on a few of your other videos

[@nathaniellefebvre342]

Sandwich+ Eviction notice + Whip + speed power up in alt game-mode = God heavy?

[@deepgopani5779]

Although I agree that the BFF needs a rework, I think you failed to mention that in order to gain a faster rollout, you would need to give up the sandvich or the other lunchbox items for the steak. Though now that I think about it, the steak acts as a medium health kit.... I think that should be reworked too. In casual, nobody uses that ability, and in competitive, it rivals the sandvich minus the self-healing.

[@parsley3215]

What about giving 20% damage resistance instead of vulnerability ?

[@lurpi5631]

good video and i love this hud

[@kristianoac6155]

The eviction didnt needed a nerf at all but i do agree with the gloves of running urgenty

[@Chr0n0s38]

The current eviction notice just doesn't work well imo. Honestly if they want to do max HP drain, maybe it could give some health back on kill and allow the heavy to overheal with it a little bit. The speed boost on hit (that's still a thing right?) encourages you to use it to fight, but then having it out draining your health is counter-intuitive. With the borrowed stat from the half-zatoichi it could actually be a decent choice for melee heavies.

[@skelskeleton]

GRU/Eviction notice:: Better Position, Great Damage, Less Health *Buffalo Steak::* Better Position _Less Damage_ , Large health. As you said in the video, they reworked the GRU / Eviction because they gave no trade off to the heavy's strong points (damage and health). But you failed to realize that the buffalo steak sandvich restricts you from your primary weapon for a second longer now. Meaning that if you arrive a little bit to early you arent going to output any damage. You also lose out on::: A full health pack, A quick recharging (more or less) small hp kit. And a semi quick recharging (more or less) medium health pack. Sorry Exany, but this video wasnt very good imo.

[@MyILoveMinecraft]

Also heavy really needs a minigun replacement that makes going shotgun more viable

[@MyILoveMinecraft]

DrIvanRadosivic not really what I'm looking for. More something like the gunboats. Give up your primary slot and earn something passive. I don't know maybe running shows that make you slightly faster

[@leaves6798]

this is an great fucking channel

[@denialz1460]

Wait, so what would be he most efficient/fastest way to roll out, and what would you recommend? Sorry I got lost when you first mentioned the Hammer Units bc idk what those are..... And it’s 2 AM in Texas during daylight saving time

[@Chr0n0s38]

Hammer Units are just a distance in game (I don't remember what the scale is though). Don't worry about the exact numbers, just know that HU/s (Hammer Units per second) is a speed. The speed that most classes run at is 300HU/s. The fastest roll out is still using the GRU, especially if a soldier whips you on roll out. What he is referring to is that using the steak sandvich can give you a similar speed (a soldier shouldn't whip you though) without losing max HP. On most maps the speed difference is almost negligible because you either have a set up time, or because the distance to mid is short enough that there's a 1 second difference at most.

[@jakebeansboy3755]

So it's actually a strategy. Either you get to mid fast but you're locked into melee and you don't have a sandvich/banana Or You have a sandvich/banana What do you think everybody is gonna choose 9/10 times?

[@themichael8116]

I much rather walk. Or stay put. But fuck the Steak. It doesn’t even heal me.

[@veryphalliccveryslavicc1507]

Can people stop complaining about how the heavy is op in any case burst damage is better than rapid fire for example a soldier demo or maybe even scout can just peak a corner and spam at the heavy and only take like 50 damage

[@gododoof]

I really enjoy using the steak sandvich with the fists of steel. Don't laugh at me.

[@nickwiza8028]

gododoof if someone takes out their melee, you’re screwed tho. Pls explain how you use this technique properly

[@gododoof]

Danger Boi That's what I like about it. I find making myself fragile like that to be very thrilling. And it forced me to get good at dodging in melee fights.

[@terri4994]

they should make it so that you can disable the steaks effects whenever

[@renemercado3128]

That defeats it's own purpose, and makes it broken, having that speed boost gives a risk to any flankers to attack you since u cant do anything about them. Giving you the ability to stop the effects make you able to stop those risks from happening.

[@No-Me3]

Don't worry. They'll fix the bugs with it in a year and a half!