🌟 Exciting Neanderthal DNA Discovery! 🌟 Thorin - The Last Neanderthal!

[@dougsinthailand7176]

A link - if humanly possible - would be helpful.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Here you go. - www.cell.com/cell-genomics/fulltext/S2666-979X(24)00177-0

[@gerardvila4685]

Rebecca Wragg Sykes must be jumping for joy - her theory that neandertals were cultured and interesting, not thick-headed brutes, is being validated.

[@togodamnus]

H neandertalensis were thick skulled and heavy boned and more robust than H sapiens, were they not? The assertions being made in this video aren't validation of RWS novel or any of the other unproven assertions about how marvelous hash tag scratch marks at Gorham cave is mean anything, or evidence of feathers being removed is proof neandertalensis wore elaborate feathered hats or capes, bone flutes and all that are fairy tales and sci fi.. The neanderthals were robust (including thick skulls) and hyper carnivorous and recognizably more basal ape like when compared with any populations of AMHS, H sapiens. ✌️

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

@@togodamnus Based on?

[@togodamnus]

​@@worldofpaleoanthropology Hi Seth, Based upon fossil records, and genomic studies. H neandertalensis were much more heavily built. The rib cage is classically basal and ape like and bell shaped, everything is distinctly different from their thumbs and wrists to their ankles and heel bones. Spine was straight but aligned different than H sapiens, head neck, clavicle bones are remarkably different as well. The scapula is also different, teres minor attachments, shoulders and firearms etc, etc, etc... They were most impressive and remarkable for their obvious and apparent differences than their supposed, asserted or alleged identicality or similarities. Furthermore, I don't see the logic in speculations asserting how they were just same as us. The bones and diet/behaviors are and were notably different than H sapiens (AMHS),, why avoid those aspects? We don't have to guess that much and shouldn't just arbitrarily or self indulgently fill in the blanks or connect dots anyway we like. Objectivity is vital to forensics work, it's bias detective work otherwise. Moreover, it's important to distinguish possibility or potential from the empirical evidence such as skeletal or genetic data from scratch marks on walls, or pigment markings based upon apprx dating. Part of the false dichotomy is assuming that unless neandertalensis were just like us they are lesser than H sapiens, that's a bias. I suspect that in many ways H neandertalensis was better or more favored than H sapiens. They were either brilliant artists or brutes ? I don't see corollary. There is strong evidence that H neandertalensis were hyper carnivorous and cannibalistic and prone to violent injury, like most predators. Otherwise I don't see persuasive evidence that neandertalensis needlessly artistic or superstitious or saw themselves as such. Their brain structure was different, ear bones different, larger eyes, large jaw, post molar gap, huge sinus, hyoid arranged differently than H sapiens. I could go on, probably be an interesting discussion worth having. Also note: H sapiens have an anti ape bias, H sapiens are least 'ape like' of all hominins/hominids and are obvious outlier among all the hominins (only 1 species left) or hominids. H neandertalensis was clearly more basal ape like than H sapiens, but I don't see it as an insult, and H sapiens are overrated by my estimation. Feel free to address any points I raise. Obviously perspective is via a physical anthropology and paleoanthropology angle. 🖖

[@togodamnus]

@@worldofpaleoanthropology The false dichotomy: a refutation of the Neandertal indistinguishability claim.

[@bluebird3281]

@@togodamnus You laid out a great case, but you need a slight spelling fix.... " The scapula is also different, teres minor attachments, shoulders and firearms etc, etc, etc..." FIREARMS! did you get that from "Planet of the classically basal and ape like" movie? or TV show "Sliders"😉

[@rdklkje13]

David Reich said, in a recent interview, who’s to say the non-Africans among us aren’t all Neanderthals descended from groups that interbred with wave after wave of modern humans. I don’t know enough about archeogenetics to understand the details, but apparently this would be a valid way to interpret currently available data. Unless I completely misunderstood his point, but I don’t think I did.

[@shiftybroccoli8891]

Modern humans = Canaan. If you know you know

[@rdklkje13]

@@shiftybroccoli8891 How about we stick to science here…

[@togodamnus]

​@@rdklkje13 I agree, H neandertalensis doesn't 'need' or require a make over.. that's subjective nonsense. Also note the terms of art injected into the needy language used, so what if neanderthals were robust, and what is meant by terms "brute"...? They were what they were and it's not a requirement they be just same as H sapiens or be lesser than. Being artistic isn't a requirement, it's an elective behavior, is it not? H neandertalensis tools are different than H sapiens, contemporary and subsequent to neandertalensis and other species of hominins went extinct. The evidence for neandertalensis symbolism, sundry artistry, ritual or superstitious behavior remains completely sparse and unimpressive and questionable. However I don't understand any 'need' or urgency to declare or insist that hyper carnivorous and robust neandertalensis were 'just like' or same as H sapiens... Same think tank are still trying to assert neandertalensis was H sapiens. Reconstructions avoid cogent morphological aspects and genetic data make it clear over and again that they (& other hominins) were different species of hominins (bi pedal apes). I don't understand the urgency of such a side quest, there is many other aspects to discuss and focus upon. 🙉🙈🙊

[@stolenlaptop]

​@@togodamnus we were close enough to breed. So there's that. You can't breed lizards in the same state sometimes as they have too much genetic drift.

[@Joe-Przybranowski]

If you know nothing, you never seem to understand you know nothing.

[@WarAndFame]

itd be great if you linked the paper in description

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

I will add it when I get a chance, thanks.

[@loganskiwyse7823]

@@worldofpaleoanthropology Please do, this is one of the failures of many KZbin channels. Not providing their source material. And is one of the judgements I use to decide if I will even like a video.

[@maghurt]

Nice, I love this stuff!

[@fourtails1192]

Interesting 🤔

[@comfortablynumb9342]

Inbreeding might have helped doom the neanderthals. Or maybe they're not "neanderthals", maybe they were groups of modern people who were so invred that they looked different?

[@kelleemerson9510]

Good point. I couldn't care less how my body evolved, it works OK for me.

[@georgehunter2813]

Inbreeding was a factor, but never considered the implications about 'inbred appearance'. Look at what happened in the Spanish royal court. The bizarre appearance is stark. The classic Neanderthals probably were the largest population ever to undergo inbreeding. Explains some of their physical traits.

[@scottcantdance804]

Says French location, subtitles say: "but months they won thrin" I don't know why content creators rely on these AI subtitles instead of taking a few seconds to type them out.

[@loquat4440]

The remains were discovered in 2015 within a cave system of France’s Rhône Valley that was known to be home to early Homo sapiens. However, this latest work shows the cavern also housed Neanderthals at a different point in time, around 40,000 to 45,000 years ago, towards the end of their existence as a species.

[@julesgosnell9791]

Even describing them as ‘physically extinct’ is still too sapiens-centric for me. I (white/English) am an H.sapiens/neanderthalensis hybrid. From a Neanderthal perspective, we are not extinct in any way, we have just borrowed some useful genes from some African H. sapiens we bumped into (several times over many thousands of years) and then moved on from the original mixture… and vice versa…

[@Madferreiro]

If by borrow you mean 98%... yeah sure. But the population that most resembles neanderthals are in the southern asia, not europe.

[@rdklkje13]

@@MadferreiroDavid Reich points out that this is, surprisingly, one valid way to interpret the current data.

[@GerbenWulff]

This discussion is about where you lay the boundary for species. As a north-west European I have a similar genetic makeup as you. Probably about 2% Neanderthal. With mostly H. Sapiens DNA and the ability to interbreed well with 'pure' H. Sapiens, I am clearly a H. Sapiens. Interbreeding with Neanderthals (if they still existed) would be more likely lead to complications. Neanderthals are clearly different from us.

[@Madferreiro]

@@rdklkje13 that tells a lot about David Reich, doesnt it? By the way, there is little profit from having neanderthal genes.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

"We"? Dude, lol, you're a modern human, No doubt about it. 100%. You're not a Neanderthal in any way. Just because you have some Neanderthal DNA doesn't make you a Neanderthal. You share 98% of your DNA with a Chimp, but that doesn't make you a chimp. 50% with a banana, are you a banana sir? lol