EXCLUSIVE First Ever Stormgate Showmatch: TLO (Vanguard), MaNa (Infernals), Moon (Infernals)

[@Mistersheeaun]

I have an issue with the readability in this game so far. In StarCraft and Warcraft, you can instantly distinguish between the different units and for the most part you can tell what they do without even knowing (big red guy has a flamethrower, lady with bow is squishy and shoots from range) For me personally, if they want the units to be the size they are and the camera at this distance, the distinguishing features of each unit need to be turned up to 11.

[@2639theboss]

Yeah, I agreed. I thought it was about 1000x worse on the actual ESL stream because the UI was covered in shit. A solid quarter of the screen was missing due to face cams and other wasted space. But I still think they probably need to downsize the observer UI, and possibly find ways to better highlight units against the background. I don't think you want to zoom in the observer camera if it creates too much of a mismatch with the player view, but maybe that's necessary.

[@IsaacFNghost]

I was thinking the exact same thing. Can’t distinguish shit during fights

[@mwcz5190]

Monk himself told me (at DH Atlanta) they are very eager to iterate aggressively on the readability of the game. They're all working at a breakneck pace to get this game done and readability will come. Even though it's quite hard to read sometimes, I do think it is on par or better than _most_ RTS's out there. WC3 and SC2 just have world class readability. Stormgate will get there too.

[@2639theboss]

@@mwcz5190 Thats good to hear. Compared to like, COH? Theyre doing a great job. Compared to AOE2, theyre a bit behind. WC3? Long way to go. But i think they care and they have good ideas which can do a lot.

[@CorwinTheOneAndOnly]

The effects around units need to go away too. Infestation marks, building buffs, etc, just completely cover whatever few distinguishing features the units have

[@tveaux1]

Regenerating the White Health (shields) on Shroud and infesting units to create more Fiends looks really strong. Sticking different infantry units into turrets for different effects is super cool. I’m excited to see what else Frost Giant comes up with as they continue development for this game!

[@commanderwookiecopc806]

The turrets switching guns from infantry was taken from Red Alert. Which makes sense Tim worked on RA2.

[@nholanl1952]

I'm really excited about the constant skirmishes while players are expanding. No turtling into deathball. Hope it stays that way.

[@IsaacFNghost]

Only complaint so far is that it’s VERY hard to see which way fights are going when two army’s are meleeing each other. A few of the fights I had no idea who was winning and what was going on

[@PiGstarcraft]

yeah big mistake for them to be observing so far zoomed out on a new game most viewers aren't familiar with I reckon. I would have been zooming in a lot more and shrinking the console/player cameras if I had camera control. That being said I reckon Frost Giant do need to do some work on the readability of these big fights and from what I've heard they know it's a big issue right now

[@lukex1337]

Hard to get excited for this game :/.. hope they improve the graphics via lighting or something for visual clarity’s sake.

[@estebancoestaocupado]

That moment when in the second match-up I thought that Mana had lost against Moon but in reality the colors and displays were wrong and they had casted the whole match wrong was... priceless. GO MANA!!

[@tkay42]

total plott-twist! 😀

[@whoUthank]

I saw other youtubers releasing this vod pack, and I was like wait a second, let me see if pig casted this yet. And I pumped my fist when I came upon this. Thank you Pig, you are my favorite caster.

[@PiGstarcraft]

thanks mate! I'm still super noob but now there's more gameplay coming out I'm going to start actually learning some proper openings + unit interactions in the closed beta so my next casts will be a bit more informative

[@eduardoserpa1682]

Cool to see what the game looks like at a higher level of play, there's quite a bit of early interaction throughout the map. Also glad to see combat is waaay less explosive than SC2, even when one of the players is decently ahead with tier 2 units. Only big complaint so far is the color scheme of Brutes (and maybe Lancers as well). It's the one unit that's hard to tell apart (specially Teal vs Purple), and it's a very important one.

[@PiGstarcraft]

yeah the armies/units being more visually distinctive and the color coding of different teams will have to be a priority before early access

[@celestialspark5697]

In this build at least, the visual clarity when armies are fighting is a huge issue. Player colors are not pronounced enough, and the amount of gore/corpses that remains on the ground actually makes it difficult to properly estimate how many units are in the fight.

[@TheIardis]

I like the theme of the vanguard much better (human, terran player here :D ) but somehow the Infernals look way more interesting. They have several very interesting mechanics that reward good decision making (do I retreat or do I increase momentum by splitting brutes into fiends and keep pushing? Similarly the shroud allows you to trade momentum for higher HP units). The vanguard seem very vanilla in comparison. Either way ,really hyped about the match. Fun games and cast! :)

[@blargety]

Yeah, I can't really tell what is happening in this video.

[@GrandpaJean]

Thanks for the coverage PiG. Game looks like it's going places

[@Nate-dy9ie]

This is awesome. I have to admit I was a little underwhelmed watching first person steams of the beta, but it's way more exciting to see pros going at it and have a great commentator to explain what's happening and why. My one criticism of the game so far is that visually it's hard to distinguish one player's units from the others during the larger engagements. Especially after the initial clash when things start getting chaotic. I know there will be much more refining and polishing to the visuals later in development, but I really hope they put a lot of effort into making the units stand out from one another and of course more distinctive team coloring. Great stuff Pig, thanks for the cast!

[@BadgerUKvideo]

Ahhh bliss. Watching TLO play a new game brings back some memories.

[@peterlaanguila5098]

lol this cast made things way easier to understand than Tastosis for me, well done PiG

[@PiGstarcraft]

thanks mate, pretty tricky casting a new game that I'm a noob at but hopefully I'll know the game better next time and be able to summarise stuff way more succinctly

[@tkay42]

Mana utilized the most importand thing I've learnd from PiG: "More shit beats less shit" Espacialy when your gamestyle is not that far developed. Which applies for everyone with a new RTS :D

[@chinggiskhaan1768]

hey pig been a big fan of SC and SC 2 but never really had a chance to Play warcraft how does this game compare And do you think it will have a healthy player Count in the long run ? speaking more from a gold / platinum level Player's Perspective.

[@Grussen69]

Thx for the video Pig, gotta say it looks really interesting. I like the new take on some of the units like the mob that dies splitting into 2 or 4 critters, Health drained on a unit unless they stand close to a "Shroud" etc. Prolly an instant buy for me when the game comes out. I´m so hoping this will be a hit and that down the years they will add a bunch of factions and not just stop at 3. Ofc the more factions the harder the balance but these dev´s are no rookies. Cudos!

[@MrOceansEleven]

MaNa always looks so freaking cold its insane

[@kalorathekau]

Let me tell you how starved I am for Stormgate content; not only have I watched these showmatches live, I will watch you reacting to the showmatch too. Hell, you can react to other people who Frost Giant partnered with to stream the beta, and I'd watch that too. Just gimme more Stormgate

[@jacobsvensson8193]

The shadows of all the units are very distracting

[@manu-phatak]

I want to support and encourage the next generation of RTS... But I don't see how this is an improvement on SC2.

[@Barbarossa97]

It's much worse. Looks like warcraft 3 as a mobile game.

[@otter8362]

lol the visusl clarity has gotta be F tier right now. Underated part of Starcraft is when you look at marines, Zealots, Zerglings, Banelings, Ultras, you can tell exactly how that unit functions in an army. What do any of these units do? The only 2 Ill argue are well designed are the Hedgehog, and Magmadon. Ajd maybe thats because theyre just jank hellion/ultralisk. Also love gaming in 2023 where some people will get the games years in advance and get the headstart on developing the meta, maps, general understanding. By the times us internet peasents can play it wont feel new anymore. Horseshit

[@Barbarossa97]

That is why you ignore such nonsense. Modern gaming is a joke.

[@jn1703]

Looks like a Starcraft arcade game

[@ENZ2103]

I feel that the pace is a bit slow. It's more like WC3 than SC, but I'm not sure that's a good thing. It feels less exciting. Hopefully there are some improvements to the pacing.

[@PiGstarcraft]

It's far faster than warcraft 3, more similar to brood war in terms of overall pacing. SC2 is amazing to watch but it's incredibly brutal to play due to its blitzing speed. I think this level of pacing should have a lot more mass appeal for players. Games that are slower than SC2 have way more multi-tasking and micro "wrestling matches" which will be a really fun change of pace

[@ENZ2103]

@@PiGstarcraft Thank you for sharing your viewpoint. You're right. This game may have more playability for more people. I'll definitely give it a try once it releases. Do we know if there be any Asia servers yet? Even at a Brood War pace, I think I'd struggle at 300 ping

[@PiGstarcraft]

yeah I believe there's already an asia/pacific server in closed beta but hopefully a few asian servers on full release

[@tdonatti777]

I wish this looks more like SC2 than WC3. Its difficult to distinguish the units and the game feels generic and with no personality... it have potential but its not there right now.

[@jeremyrugg3015]

I'm watching StormGate and ZeroSpace in production right now. Neither are very pretty to me, but Stormgate has 2 races while Zerospace has 3 main and then 3 sub factions in the youtube videos and I could identify each unique unit and its general role based on seeing them in a control group while I can't tell the different units a part in Stormgate matches where only 2-4 different units are used.@@gitjiggybruh

[@danielbeshers1689]

Small sample size, but Infest seems like it might be unfair in a game with very limited AOE. Or maybe TLO was being stubborn and not countering well.

[@chuckwalla123]

He also got pretty far behind in the early game from harassing.

[@danielbeshers1689]

​@@chuckwalla123Definitely true.

[@TheTuscanyGuy515]

TLO didn't made the best vanguard unit, the Atlas, together whit drop ship is OP

[@giuseppebonatici7169]

hedgehog has multi target volleys (sudo AOE, as it distribute damage in a single attack animation), vulkans melt small units, atlas have AOE against slow units. you can also win a mobile atlas in a creep camp. vanguard is not a low AOE race at all, but may be too expensive at the moment to invest in them (hence TLO avoidance, maybe). you also have lancers that decimate fiends as every weak fiend attack becomes a buff to a lancer. in infernal, you have one unit that has a bouncing attack, a a charger that does small melee tickle AOE. Infernal have close to None AOE as they would be completly broken with the infest ability (making the siege camp contest really important). the most broken here is the lack of building walls. especially vanguard should try to build a protoss style wall againt infernals with a lancer/vulkan as doorkeeper and atlas to soft-counter range units. the supply depot of vanguard seems kind of weak in comparison with the meat farm. maybe should allow bunkering 1 unit. or something like that, to give a small buff against harassment (hiding damage workers) and if you put a exo in them it could act a a lancer to make a melee deterrent wall but not allow tons of turtling potential.

[@acquaintedfowl1767]

this shit ain't even out yet and they have in-person big tournaments with real venues... god DAMN

[@allanshpeley4284]

Frost Giant knows how to create hype, I'll give them that. Now if only they knew how to make a game that didn't look like a soulless 2009 mobile game.

[@AlexCatable]

Ok, let's hope units models get polished. At the moment they kust lose strongly to SC2 units visually. I dont know sh about this game but several mechanics lookef pretty interesting. But what I didn't like is the inits diversity. I saw (not counting workers) what, 3 unit types from each side? May be 4? Are there more really?

[@PiGstarcraft]

I think it's about 7 units not including workers on each faction at the moment, but tier 3 for vanguard isn't in the game and there's clearly missing units on both factions right now. Just out of alpha so all you can really judge on is the way the units move and feel + how the engine runs I reckon

[@AlexCatable]

@@PiGstarcraft I just counted on fingers, Protoss have what, 17 units excluding workers? This doesn't bode well. Let me put it this way: how is this game gonna be BETTER than SC2?

[@allanshpeley4284]

@@AlexCatable Oh it won't. Unless they completely scrap what they have and start again.

[@GruppeSechs]

8:42 So like a bunker?

[@minibeast21]

I realise its still very early days, but currently seems like Infernal host ability of fiends generating from infected enemy units is OP'ed & needs balancing

[@JustHoldIt539]

Already people get to be professionals, and I am not even allowed to play yet ;-;

[@coololi07]

ok the resolution is really off putting. Doubt thats on you pig. lovely cast as always

[@Barbarossa97]

Imagine releasing this first try mobile tier game next to actual RTS for grown ups like sanctuary shattered sun.

[@mariogutierrez4989]

Game play looks good. The graphics looks mobile cartoonish. SC2 graphics much better.

[@petroz5505]

22:50 well, a weapon of a lancer, what could that be... Maybe, just maybe - a lance?

[@PiGstarcraft]

if you look at the graphic it's clearly not a lance lol

[@SoSo-lq6bu]

Wait the game is not out yet and there is already pros ?

[@lamora6298]

How did they design an RTS intended for competitive play and name their resources luminate and therium? I'm going to be calling them rocks and soup

[@peterlaanguila5098]

yeah agree. gold n stone

[@origami119]

is there be a proper lore for stormgate? So far I am quite unsure whether to get excited or not, it looks to me like some mod of warcraft without the heroes.. And the graphics are quire poor (no improvement to the decade old sc2 & wc3 games), I hope this will get better towards release. Otherwise I just can keep playing those classics instead - in which way is stormgate better?

[@TheTuscanyGuy515]

dunno why TLO never made Artillery tank and tank drop everywhere

[@dirtustu]

I don't know what thinking about this game. It's definitely not Starcraft 2, the mouvement of the all the unit at the same speed, the map very small and simplist, look like a phone game. When i see the trailer i was thinking about a mix between dawn of war and a ultra compétitive game but what i'm seeing is a Warcraft III with no heroes.

[@allanshpeley4284]

Think of it as the next evolution of SC2, but if it were created for mobile by a single highschool student with no real ambition.

[@dirtustu]

Maybe its good, Sc2 at his start was not a real game until 10 years of patch@@allanshpeley4284

[@temushin]

The weapon the Lancers are using might be called a lance.

[@PiGstarcraft]

Doesn't look anything like a lance, though the animation is a thrust that would fit with a lance/spear type weapon. The giant blade with a single bladed edge only makes sense for a slashing weapon. A lance or any thrusting weapon should be sharpened down to a point so it doesn't get stuck in whatever you stab. Just thinking outloud but from what little I know about lances, halberds and other pole-arms this doesn't make any sense lol

[@temushin]

@@PiGstarcraft I agree! I assume future science magic makes it work and lancers having lances makes some amount of sense even though they look more like a halberd.

[@PiGstarcraft]

haha true that, some sort of explosive aid to help withdraw it from the target

[@fireborn..]

It's looking great and progressing amazingly. I don't like the rallying lines on all the time.

[@cityofbhat7722]

Happy for MaNa. He beat TLO 2-0, but also Moon, one of the best WarCraft III players, 2-0.

[@dshlango]

The infernals are cool, they should consider adding them as a custom race to SCII

[@cirusMEDIA]

I really want to love this game, but it looks too much like WarCraft. ZeroSpace is in the lead for my time and attention right now!

[@billybegood466]

I really wanted to love this new RTS, but the more I see it, the more I can't help but look at it as a reskinned and worse version of SC2.

[@OmNi175]

Why are you using the past tense, the game isn't even done yet lol

[@billybegood466]

@@OmNi175 If it looks like a reskinned SC2 now, it's still going to look like a reskinned SC2 when it releases fully.

[@OmNi175]

​@@billybegood466 That's a pretty pessimistic outlook man. I'm glad you've never seen anything I've worked on while it was in beta lol.

[@billybegood466]

@gitjiggybruh Damn, you're right. I don't like any RTS except Brood War. Except of course, SC2, Total Annihilation, Command and Conquer, C&C Red Alert, Warcraft I, II and III and pretty much every Age of Empire. But yeah, I need help because this game is basically SC2 with different graphics.

[@motoboy6666]

Such an uninspired game

[@dr.destructo221]

I dont really like it yet...

[@kukulis100]

I think repair should be limited to one worker

[@paulfuge2843]

This game needs to rename everything. All the names are complete nonsense.

[@allanshpeley4284]

Don't you see a pattern here? Silly, unoriginal names (like BOBs), uninspired, boring units, terrible animations, childish colors, low resolution models, lack of an interesting story, poorly designed dashboard. These guys have no leaders on their team who understand or have a passion for game art and it's evident in nearly every aspect of the game design. The only thing they're likely to get right is unit pathing and balance. Sadly, that just won't be enough to hook many of us in.

[@tracoes]

I don't know if it's just me but the gameplay is bad lol and the units suck.

[@allanshpeley4284]

It's not just you.

[@themistikal]

1st!

[@10coolfacts]

Mass-Repair is a dumbass mechanic. Remove it from the game.

[@danicule8671]

someone should say to TLO that to be a Dr. you need to study

[@danicule8671]

Bad TLO, it seems that he hasn't played enough. He is missing the meta. THe fact that he fast expanded in map 2, means he played 0 games there. That infernal push with siege units was a huge thing in closed beta.