EXPERT TIPS| Continuous Insulation

[@LateForDinner-mn1hn]

I drove my builder/framer crazy with all your videos I would share with him because I wanted him to know what quality of framing I expected. In the end, I didn’t get quite as good as I wanted but I got much better quality than the big developers offered in our area. We ended up with a very well insulated house with an ACH of 0.6 and once the house was insulated, before drywall, I could get the interior temperature to +7°C with two 1500 W space heaters when the outside winter temperatures were -27°C. Thanks to your videos I have an exceptionally good quality home because I learned what good quality framing and homes should look like.

[@franklong6269]

I was a professional framer for years and you are very misinformed. Your framer and your GC are not responsible to design your home insulation systems. I am a licensed GC now and I have a Civil Engineering degree, so for my clients, I sometimes do design work. But a framer is not qualified to design your insulation system, nor are they trained to do so. "Builders" as you call them, probably refer to your GC. Generally, it is not the GC's responsibility to do design work, depending on the size of the project. For custom homes, it is the homeowner's responsibility to provide permitted design plans to the GC unless you make arrangements with the GC to pay him for that service. But a LOT of GCs are not trained in home design and insulation systems. So you were trying to get design service for free from your GC and it sounds like you didn't pay him for that service. You should know that the GC is required to build any structure strictly in compliance with the permit plans. He is not responsible, nor should he, build your home according to your personal quirks and superstitions. It sounds like there were a lot of insulation details that you demanded that were not communicated in writing to the GC BEFORE he bid on the project. So, he should have changed-ordered you for each one of the insulation details that you demanded in the name of "quality." You can't pay for Toyota Camry and expect your builder to construct a Lexus under the same budget. Competent GCs who know what they are doing will often avoid clients like you because you are petulantly demanding quality that you did not specify in the original design and you didn't pay for. BY FAR, most heat and cool loss is transferred through the windows. So if you cheaped out on the windows, then all of the insulation details you add to the walls and roof won't make much difference. And the "builder" doesn't usually choose your windows for you unless, again, you pay him to design your entire insulation system. Showing "videos" to your builder and demanding that "quality" level is only appropriate BEFORE he bid the home out or if you are willing to pay for changes that were not in the original scope that was defined for the project. For example, it makes a HUGE difference to frame a home with 2" x 6" lumber as opposed to 2" x 4" lumber. But it costs more labor and materials to use 2" x 6" lumber because it is much heavier and harder to erect. If you didn't ask for 2" x 6" framing when the home was bid out, then you should be willing to pay for the upgrade that you have ordered.

[@LateForDinner-mn1hn]

@@franklong6269 Wow, you are certainly assuming quite a lot from the short amount of information that I wrote. Like I said, the framing was better than other builders work that I’ve seen but there were some things that had to be fixed/changed because someone was in a rush or just made a mistake. I’m not going into details because that’s not important since the project is complete and the house is built better than the previous house that existed on the foundation. I’m going to repeat myself here, watching these videos helped my project to be better built than most of the new builds that I have seen in the past few years. And the ZipR6 helped to get both the insulation and air leakage to a level that most of the local developers in my area aren’t doing. Design, drawings, engineering, permits, etc were all done professionally btw.

[@LateForDinner-mn1hn]

@@franklong6269 Did I mention what lumber dimension the wall assembly was? I didn’t. Actually it was double stud 2x4 with a 1” gap between the walls. The builder knew exactly what was expected before he took the job because I made sure to be very clear and upfront with the plans. Hence the sharing of the videos with details that I particularly wanted because the intention was to get to Net Zero with some passive house standards. There were some mistakes made but most got corrected and some I’ll have to forgive, like the post imbedded in concrete by the staircase that’s 4” off from the blueprint indication. But overall, it’s a very good house, thanks to the things that were learned from watching videos like Awesome Framers. Roll the tape!

[@franklong6269]

If you paid for the changes, then it should not have "driven your builder crazy." If your plans were done correctly, it should not have "driven your builder crazy." That's not being presumptuous, those are your own words. Nothing is wrong with what you want. The quality you wanted was a smart choice. And sometimes, many times, architects do a very poor job in designing various wall systems. My point is none of this was your GC's fault or your framer's fault. They are not licensed to design homes, though GCs do have some design responsibility based on code requirements. I have come to expect that when clients bring me a set of plans for a custom home, I will have to spend significant time fixing those plans because there are almost always important "omissions" and "errors." For example, I had one client that I built an addition for. They had hired an architect and he made two critical errors in his plans. With the first error, he specified a roof height that was wrong. It was wrong because the peak height of the roof trusses on the addition had to match the peak height of roof on the existing home or the entire roof system would not work. I was about to order the trusses for the project, and I took some time to double-check the dimensions that the architect provided. Had I used his dimensions, the additional roof would have been 1.5 feet too low, and it would have cost my client thousands of dollars. They would have had to buy the trusses twice because the wrong size trusses would not have been usable. The second error was that the architect put the main door of the house approximately 6 feet away from the correct location. Again, this would have been a massive mistake had I not caught it because this is a stucco home and it would have been a nightmare to move the door after the house was stuccoed. A third mistake was that the client wanted to hang a swinging three-seat exteriror chair off of the addition's patio beam, which was also stuccoed. The structural beam to carry the large chair system was not in the plans. Luckily, when I spoke with them, they told me about the large chair and I reinforced the beam structure before stucco to carry it. I took photos of the framing and the build of the house at different stages and gave them a photo album so they would know where all of the plumbing, the electrical wiring and the structural beams and studs are. A few years later, they tried to hang the swing and they could not find the beam. I came out for free and showed them where it was. I asked them to pull out their photo album and when they checked, I had provided a picture of where the beam was and they had not thought o look in the album. They were older, and so I helped them several times without charging them. After I found so many errors in the architectural plans, I asked my clients if the architect had ever come out to the house and taken measurements for the new addition. I was stunned when they said he had never even come to the house once to check his dimensions. This could have cost them tens of thousands of dollars and this was just an addition, not an entire home. This is an example of things that "drive builders crazy." They are often left to pick up the pieces of a huge mess that they did not create, and the client often tends to blame the builder because they are frustrated and angry. Maybe this small example gives you view into the other side of the real world that your builder lives in.

[@LateForDinner-mn1hn]

@@franklong6269 You misconstrued my comment, I jokingly said that I drove my builder crazy because I sent him videos to explain what the project was about and what was expected. My builder also joked about how I sent him videos, but being in the millennial age group, got the point. Most of the builders in my area don’t build Net Zero projects and aren’t familiar with the products that I specified to use, like the ZipR6 and the tape was totally new to my builder as was the double stud wall but he was willing to learn, so he assured me. In the circle of people in my area that are building Net Zero projects, the consensus is that not enough builders are interested in learning about products and methods that will achieve the standards. Like I previously said, I didn’t get quite as good as I wanted but I got better than the usual house construction that is common in developments in my area.

[@drumswest5035]

Great to see a framer concerned about structural integrity of a building. So many homes ive inspected have that missing. We are in a high seismic zone also and there is a lot to consider when framing a house, shearwalls, hold downs, species of lumber etc.

[@FreeYourBrains]

@@drumswest5035 what exactly are you talking about? The OSB in modern times and 1” thick lumber boards back in the day are basically installed to give structural integrity to the studs walls which without that would be like a sheet of paper. The styrofoam glued between the studs and the OSB completely defeats that purpose. Next time you go to chance your tires bring some rubber spacers and ask your tire mechanic to place them on the lug bolts before he installs the rims. After that tell me how many miles you drive before everything breaks apart. The same thing happens if you don’t secure the OSB directly to the studs.

[@drumswest5035]

@@FreeYourBrains I totally agree with what you said, i was just stating the fact that he is aware of the structural aspect of building. We never use styrofoam board anywhere in our engineered designs either as a lot of these new exterior type boards that keep cropping up are not proven with time. We always state to nail directly to the studs with proper nail spacing and nail diameter for shearwalls and if the engineer need more strength we go with D. fir plywood or add sheathing to both sides.

[@franklong6269]

I am a licensed GC in AZ and a Civil Engineer who has done structural engineering. In AZ, we are concerned about the heat, not the cold and that is what we insulate homes here to protect them. I have installed several 2" x 6" framed homes that are stuccoed, and they are exceptionally energy efficient. Now, with stucco, you do have a 1.5" insulating board installed under the stucco. So there is, in a sense, a continuous insulation barrier, but it's like R-2, so it's not much. I am a big fan of the Zip system, but the continuous insulation system you are specifying is expensive. It would be interesting to see the insulation difference between a standard 2" x 6" framed home with non-insulated Zip shear panel and the R-9 Zip you are using. I am betting that the actual difference would not be that great. I think you are quickly coming to the point of diminishing returns, where you are just burning money. However, in Washington, where it does get very cold, it may actually be worth the additional money to pay for the insulated Zip board in extreme weather conditions. While I am not a cold-climate expert, I am very skeptical about the numbers this "architect" spouted off for cold transferring over five inches through 2" x 6" wood studs. Yes wood has a low R-Factor compared to insulation, but you have to consider the thickness of the wood framing members when doing these calculations. I don't think this architect understands that. The continuous insulation barrier system is better, no doubt. And both heat and cold will transfer through wood. But it is the AMOUNT of transfer that we have to be concerned about. Saying that an R-21 2" x 6" insulated wall system is "R-9" if it doesn't have a continuous insulation system is complete BS - he doesn't know what he's talking about. The R-Factor of wall systems is measured as a complete system, and that is where the R-21 number comes from. It would be blatantly illegal to promise an R-21 insulation factor with a 2" x 6" clad wall system and deliver an R-9 insulation factor - it would be fraud. In AZ, a stuccoed 2" x 6" wall system with fiberglass batt insulation and 2" foam under the stucco is nearly R-30, and they are VERY energy efficient. I know because I have built dozens of them, and they just work, provided they are installed correctly. During the summer, we get temperatures that range from 110 degrees F - 120 degrees F for several weeks in a row. At night sometimes the temperature does not get below 95 degrees F. So these conditions are about as extreme as you are going to find anywhere. Insulation is a big deal here because, without it, your home becomes unlivable in the summer. BTW, no one installs double sills here in AZ, no one. Your guest really doesn't have a clue about national construction methods. I have framed structures in several countries, and nobody uses double sills. There's nothing wrong with using double sill plates, but you can attach shear panels to walls with single sill plates. Further if your double bottom plates are not both attached to the concrete with J-bolts or redheads, then your structure does not meet code PERIOD! It is possible in extreme cold that using double bottom plates arose to provide additional insulation against the frost line reaching into the home from the ground. Finally, while your structural engineer is correct, and you do get some limited shear value using the R-9 Zip panels, it is nowhere near as strong as a regular shear panel that is nailed 4" O.C. This won't matter if you are in zones that don't have hurricanes, high wind events, earthquakes or tornadoes. But if you are in one of these zones, the inherent weakness of the R-9 Zip shear panel may become a factor and the home could fail. I have never run the calcs on the difference between standard, non-insulated, shear and the R-9 Zip, but I would bet the R-9 is at least 50% -75% weaker in catastrophic storm events than standard shear panel. Standard shear panel has been proven to hold a house together in 200 mph winds, hurricanes and tornados and I personally would not lose that level of protection if the home I was constructing was in a high-risk area. Being cock-sure that you are right, like this architect who is your guest, doesn't make him right. Just because a structural engineer said it was okay in one application doesn't mean it is the best system for all applications. In short, if the home was in a high-risk area and I wanted to install Zip R-9 panels, I would shear the exterior of the walls normally and then install the R-9 Zip over that shear.

[@Braindead154]

Love to see you building with Steve and love these videos.

[@ceterisparibus51]

I recently built a house (my own), and fabricated my own "ZIP-R" panels on site. It was really easy -- just hit each 7/16 ZIP sheathing panel with a shot of Advantech subfloor foam glue on each corner, and one in the middle. Then slapped a sheet of 1" XPS foam onto it. Let each panel set up for about 1 hour. The Advantech glue bonds the two layers like cement, and this saved quite a bit of money as compared to purchasing the ZIP-R panels from Huber. All you really need is enough glue to hold the two layers together until the panel is installed.

[@KevinLauscher]

sweet tip!

[@AwesomeFramers]

I would be surprised if you any AHJ allowed an amalgamation like that since there is no testing of the assembly as required by code for approval

[@ceterisparibus51]

@@AwesomeFramers Probably right about that. But my inspector didn't fuss over this. Yet it's hard to see what difference the assembly process could make??? I don't think the foam board adds anything to the structural integrity of the panels (while also not detracting significantly). And so long as you attach the sheathing itself according to Huber specs, this just counts as another layer of insulation. Or? Am I missing something? (and thanks for you feedback!). I'd be more worried with thicker poly iso boards -- e.g., 2" or greater.

[@braydonscully4646]

@@ceterisparibus51it for sure works, it’s just not code stamped or listed as engineered and tested. So depending on where you live it may be a total no go.

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@ceterisparibus51 With Zip R you get warranty, and testing that is submitted to the code. You no longer have the warranty when you modify the use of the panel outside of the installation instructions. Will you actually have a probably? Likely not, but there's nothing to back you up if there is a problem. I've been to the see Huber's racking testing personally, its worth using the suite of products and being covered.

[@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb]

Really nice to see you up your game wrt efficiency. Good to see Steve on the job.

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

Thank you, always great to hang out with Tim

[@samuelwotring633]

I'd like to apologize I looked at the video One More Time and saw at the beginning that you did do that the measurement from the outside and determined the layout my apologies but it did get me thinking how to layout a building in this day and age rather than how I was taught 50 years ago thank you again

[@AwesomeFramers]

CORRECTION: Continuous insulation is NOT the only way to meet the new energy code in WA state. It is the simplest in our opinion as builders (our company). Continuous insulation in the form of Zip R sheathing is the most cost effective way for us to meet the requirements. It lowers labor cost, requires less training, and is more efficient that other methods.

[@lucascole7589]

I was talking with a local architect who has an in-house engineer and they mentioned using WSU's "C3 Calculator" to go around the continuous insulation requirement, but I haven't read into that much. I would like to use ZIP R6.6 but it's quite expensive where I live in Pierce County.

[@Braindead154]

⁠@@lucascole7589basically - show that your entire building thermal envelope has a UA less than target UA (UAT). From what I’ve seen and worked on, continuous insulation is not required at all to meet the target UA. There are more cost effective ways to meet these requirements. I’m not discounting what these guys are doing, ZIP-R is a fantastic product. It is however cost prohibitive and generally unnecessary when using the alternative method outlined in R204.1.4

[@FreeYourBrains]

Continuous insulation yeah right, how about glue and screw the OSB to the studs and after that glue sheets of styrofoam overlapping the OSB seams? You gonna say NO IS NOT CODE, just buy this ones. Aha how much are they paying you to throw your honesty and integrity in the garbage? You know I’m right. How about teaching people how to use materials that are not destroying their bank account?

[@user990077]

The architect has a classic flat top hair cut. When I was a kid in the late 50's early 60's we loved getting flattops for the new school year. Plus some of our astronaut heroes had flat tops too. We had these giant chap stick type holders that had this sticky wax you would put in your hair do you could make it stand up properly. Dust and bugs took up residence I'm sure.

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

Had it since Parris Island '84

[@DontAatMe]

I used this zip system to frame my brothers house about a year ago. Except the foam was 2" instead of 1" as seen in this video. It requiered 4" nails to fasten the sheathing to the studs. Im really not a fan of this because the shear value is significantly diminished. You shouldnt have to comprimise on structural integrity to achieve a slightly higher r value. If I had to use this product again, I would probably install cross bracing in the walls for additional support. This would just add more cost to the already higher cost of the project. And people will complain even more about why houses are so expensive 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@AwesomeFramers]

I hear what you are saying, but there is a larger story to this. First of all, did you NEED the R9 product? It important to remember that more isn't always better. In our climate zone, code requires R5 here. We can get the lateral resistance from the R6 panel nearly all the time here in seismic zone D2. Zip R6 is the lowest total installed cost to meet the new energy code here.

[@sladeoriginal]

so efficient no one can afford it

[@fullrestoration8205]

If you use floor or roof trusses, and you want your studs to line out for siding purposes, then layout needs to be thought through and addressed with the truss manufacture during the planning stages because otherwise you’ll waste a ton of zip sheathing trying to get the proper overlaps on your corners.

[@AwesomeFramers]

Good points. Preplanning is so important.

[@24revealer]

I'm in Ontario, Canada and was looking into this sheathing. They told me my local dealer was a Rona about an hour away, so I took a trip as I wanted to see what this sheathing was all about. They did not have any, said they could order it and then the salesman tried to sell me on a ICF system. That's what I was thinking of doing anyway, but wanted to see if I could use Zip on other parts of the house. LOL

[@FreeYourBrains]

Too much money for just OSB and styrofoam

[@caustinolino3687]

10:29 Stupid question- why not saw off the panels at 45 degrees to meet at the corner like is done with most stuff on corners?

[@philhensley5986]

A lot of people still ignore the energy savings methods available today. They typically want to spend more on the interior and opt to go cheap on improving the thermal envelope

[@lucascole7589]

Can you do a video of installing an entry door with ZIP R6? The largest jamb widths are 6 9/16 unless you add a inch with extensions but with a stained wood door, I don't know if it would look clean. Not to mention finding some type of door sill/threshold extension.

[@devonstjohn]

Could you not get the same result or better using SIP panels ?? I am curious why you would not use that instead?

[@Roninbuilt]

Because he’s sponsored by Zip.

[@TrytoCatch22]

@12:00 you talk about having the 3rd stud for nailing of the sheathing. Is the 2nd (flat) stud used for structural purposes or just for nailing for the sheathing? Instead of using the 3rd normal facing stud for sheathing, could you slide over the "flat" stud and save yourself a stud piece? Amateur here to learn, thanks

[@greycat5400]

Great video.

[@KimOlsenKTO]

Newbie question here, shouldn't the sheathing panels be installed horizontally as opposed to vertically to help in preventing the framing structure from racking side to side? (IE: being able to attache the panel across 8' vs the 4' if attached vertically). I hope the question makes sense. I only ask because I spent a couple years in the mid eighties framing houses and I remember that it was code at that point in Alberta and also when I moved to BC shortly after.

[@NealBarber-z8z]

I like the zip r product and design with it in western washington, but I your mythbusting section is a bit over simplistic. I agree that it is not inherently a problem, but it could present significant issues if someone doesn't get the assembly right or doesnt probably excecute the build. The biggest thing I think you left out os that you cannot install a vapor barrier below sheet rock orherwise you are going to rot out the framing. You also must allocate more time to drying out framing if building during the wet season. Any trapped water will also lead to rot. I think the best assembly with zip-r is to "flash and batt" the cavities with 2" of closed cell and fiberglass batt. The downside is thay this likely removes any labor cost saving from usong the zip-r panel. I am hoping we don't see a bunch of new homes in the region fail as less attentive builders are pushed into the zip-r product by the energy code and cost constraimts.

[@glengeorge7555]

What about shear? The sheathing is not directly tied to the framing, as the 1" insulation is between the framing and sheathing.

[@kdegutis]

Awesome, nailed it, Framers

[@kelvinp7899]

Maybe I missed it, but with Zip R sheathing, do you now eliminate the interior vapor barrie in Northern zones?

[@AwesomeFramers]

I don't know.

[@LateForDinner-mn1hn]

North of 50 here, we still used interior vapour barrier on our double stud walls with exterior Zip R6 sheathing as recommended by the experienced insulation contractor we hired to install Rockwool against the exterior Zip R6 and blown in cellulose between that and the drywall. Worked great when the temperature dipped below -40°C.

[@hammertime7349]

That’s exactly my question. Here in Wisconsin we are required to use a vapor barrier.

[@hu5tle-]

Can also use the Stretch Tape. I haven't done the CBA on Stretch, VS. 3" VS 6".

[@AwesomeFramers]

I don't see the advantage of the Stretch in this application. It would be tough to work with, most expensive and Huber warranty covers the 2 seam tape or 1 6". Let me know how it goes :-)

[@hu5tle-]

@@AwesomeFramers the only advantage is one less "trip" vs the 3"

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@hu5tle- 3? With the 6" its 1 and with the seam tape its 1 that takes a little longer. Maybe I'm missing your application. I can bring 2 rolls of seam tape up the ladder and work down using both before climbing off. The 6" is super easy. Stretch is very hard to work with and slower/more expensive for corners because of how well is stretches.

[@hu5tle-]

@@AwesomeFramers yes, less up and down the ladder with the 6", vs. 2x with the 3". Seems like, for good reason, you want to minimize trips up and down ladders.

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@hu5tle- thing is, ladder work = giant calves

[@sonicboom2000]

STEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

Like a Sonic Boom!!!!

[@YIQUANONE]

What size nails get their shear value to transfer?, also windows are already calculated into new houses with the required T24 report in CA, all this extra insulation is not required but is an extra cost that you will probably never get back in your savings on energy. I like a little fresh air in the house; most people probably don't want to live in a sealed box.

[@AwesomeFramers]

3" x .131" nails as I showed in the video. This house isn't in California. Fresh air? Then open a window, until you hit wild fire season, then the owners will be glad we manage the air instead of letting it coming through a thousand small holes.

[@stevenleiler9034]

Just keeps driving the cost of new homes out of the reach of most people. Last month We got a new house to pass the codes with very little extra effort. No spray foam, no zip, no extra crap. Just read the code book.

[@AwesomeFramers]

Did it meet the new energy code in WA? I do feel your pain, ire or whatever we call this feeling. I am just showing how to do it right, but personally I am not in favor of most of these changes due to lack of affordability. I cannot afford to live in the homes I work on. KZbin doesn't pay me enough for that 🤣🤣🤣😪😪

[@stevenleiler9034]

@@AwesomeFramers We passed the newest code here in Ct. The builder we frame for doesn't own a hammer but loves to read the code book and do his research. A lot of people and inspectors think there is only one way to get the efficiency, the code book has a lot of either / or. and the people selling zip and spray foam just push their products. We met all requirements and blew away the blower door test. (see what i did there) the company that did the test , did it 3 times because they never seen that kind of a score on a residential home.

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@stevenleiler9034 but specifically could you find out which code because a lot of these continuous insulation requirements are just going into effect.

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

@@stevenleiler9034 Interesting to hear you tout the blower door test number, but don't actually cite it......must have been soooo good

[@dunckeroo1987]

At 22:09 you can see a nail miss. You need to "plant" the ram straight up and down so it can't skip out of position will the nail is being pushed in.

[@gabemillee3726]

So they call a carpet push a quick flasher

[@AwesomeFramers]

www.quickflashproducts.com/products/ft-flashing-tool/

[@CybekCusal]

It's always hilarious to listen to Steve talk about stuff he doesn't understand. Heat transfer calculations are under the HVAC engineer's purview thank God because architects don't know this stuff. The term thermal bridging doesn't even exist in the handbook. He forgot to include the exterior siding, drywall, and surface films in his math. Time to go back to school Steve.

[@AwesomeFramers]

Thanks for watching the videos. He was just talking about insulation. I look forward to your articles in trade magazines.

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

First of all, I do understand. How many residential projects typically have an HVAC Engineer? Oh thank you so much......it's not in the handbook so it doesn't exist, great way to look at it. As for the "extra" materials you cited, yes, they do exist, but their cumulative math, simply doesn't move the needle much. Keep up the great work, you're killing it!!!!

[@philspd473]

Hard no.

[@helmanfrow]

0:56 1:18 Mr. B-roll is really hogging your voiceover. When editing your videos, please consider having only one person talking at a time.

[@pacifickaihomesllc3605]

Pay the farmers more money they will do better

[@AwesomeFramers]

I don't agree. I've seen wages to way up, entitlement with it, and quality didn't follow.

[@TheWatchit45]

I don’t know Tim, this seams too much like rocket science. Not!

[@vtskier777]

Low shear values, sorry

[@AwesomeFramers]

Lower yes compared with non insulated structural sheathing. Just like we size beams for specific loading, we can design shear walls for specific loading.

[@bradkvanbek7148]

There is a far better way to build, with Insulating Concrete Forms, ICFs. Continuous insulation, stronger, safer, no mold.

[@AwesomeFramers]

How do you define "better"? Here ICF is insanely expensive ALL costs considered. There will be zero mold here, so let's take that off the table.

[@bradkvanbek7148]

I define better as stronger, safer more energy efficient. Won't support mold growth, wood can, this system in the video included. How do you define "all costs"? None of the other items should cost more, some things should cost less, such as drywall and electrical

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@bradkvanbek7148 All costs, means ALL COSTS. Materials, labor costs, labor availability, environmental costs, cosmetic, etc.

[@bradkvanbek7148]

@@AwesomeFramers What cost is "labor availability" . What are "environment costs" and "cosmetic" costs?

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@bradkvanbek7148 Environmental cost of manufacturing ICF and disposing of waste, carbon cost of the extra concrete. Cosmetic Costs include steps taken to hide the above ground foam, extra cost in siding over the foam. The fact is EVERYTHING has pros and cons. That is true of ICF. There are good reasons to go ICF, and there are good reasons not too. Are you intellectually honest enough to admit to the negativees or cons of ICF?

[@sethmatteson699]

Making houses so "airtight" IS unhealthy and relies too heavily on HVAC IMHO. Not to mention what is off gassing from this Zip continuous insulation panels? Tons of plastic and Styrofoam in my house? No thank you.

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

THe beauty of America.... you have a choice!!

[@Dsanrides]

Increased sheathing costs. Increased ventilation costs. Increased maintenance costs on sophisticated air exchange units. Increased labor cost on HVAC. All in the name of saving $30 a month on energy bills.😂 In Western Washington, which has an extremely mild climate. I had my windows open 24/7, 365 when I lived there. Meanwhile, here in NC, we have brutal humid summers and actual winters and all we need is 2x4s with batts. 🤷‍♂️

[@AwesomeFramers]

I totally understand your points. I do think though, that this is too narrow a view. We gain a lot of benefits from going with CI and high performance windows. We'll do a cost breakdown in another video. We were able to reduce the HVAC equipment. We view CI as part of the mechanical system, even though it isn't. Viewing the structure is a holistic approach for us. We get a more comfortable building, a quieter building, more efficient building, have filtered air and our homes have much lower maintenance than our competitors.

[@ceterisparibus51]

I used ZIP-R on my house. I'm convinced it's worth the cost/effort, but introduces several complications. Among the most costly are custom window and door jambs.

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

It's not at all about hot or cold......it's about if you buy energy?

[@lucascole7589]

@@ceterisparibus51 I'm in the planning phase right now and will likely be forced into using ZIP R6.6. Two questions, why would windows need custom jambs? Did you just add 1" to the exterior door jambs? I'm mostly worried about a custom jamb for the 144"x96" patio door....

[@ceterisparibus51]

@@lucascole7589 Just to be clear, I am not a pro builder/carpenter. But a standard window/door jamb for a nominal 2x6 wall is *6 7/16"* deep (i.e., "standard" in the sense of not typically requiring a custom order). A typical ZIP-R6 wall will be *7 7/16"* deep (5 1/2" for the stud + 1" for the foam board + 7/16" sheathing + 1/2" interior drywall).

[@Motoch3]

Like the details of the video. As an architect in California, the engineer won't let us use Zip R because of the sheer value. By having the foam against the stud, you lose much of the shear strength. I prefer to go with a Rockwool that is vapor open, possibility of more insulation (2x4 wall but more on the outside) and the added fire resistance. Food for thought. Many ways to do.

[@jmhall918]

Oh man I almost fast-forwarded at that Low T joke 😂

[@garymitchell7551]

This is why people cannot afford houses because politicians and contractors (who can make money on the code upgrade) insist on the code upgrade …. Let people decide if they want more insulation instead of dictating… I used continuous on my house in Alabama bc I don’t want to pay higher electric bills

[@samuelwotring633]

I want to give a comment I appreciate you talking about when you're framing you need to consider what's going on the outside for as plywood's insulation or whatever is the next framer actually Carpenter journeyman that is I think that you should have used a 2X for the corner and then you wouldn't have a wasted 2 by 4 so you gave me great thought in the next time I frame and make sure I have Corner nailing from the outside of my insulation so my walls would probably be laid out differently to instead of the normal pull on the tape for 12 or 24 in on Center I have to consider what my outside installation was going to be and where is it going to be extended paneling so is for nailing purposes that way you wouldn't be wasting exterior sheathing and insulation board being 4 x 8 sheets normally? Just a thought four framing

[@user-yi5nu4gw2s]

Safety first. Remove battery on router when adjusting settings. Cheers

[@AwesomeFramers]

excellent point.

[@ElvargsBane]

One question: do you roll the tape?

[@mattdouglass6482]

i just have one question…. is there any way to make the house not so close to the neighbors(?) 😂

[@kwhatten]

BUY MORE LAND!

[@fredtaylor2918]

11:48 would it just be cheaper/faster to use a 2x8 instead of a extra stud?

[@AwesomeFramers]

Probably, but we don't order 10' 2x8 and cut them then down to stud length. I think by the time I factor in my time doing that it might be a wash just to grab a stud

[@chrisgeary4624]

Isn’t a Zip-R panel just half a (skinny) SIP panel?

[@Mrhappy555]

We were wrapping houses with cheap Styrofoam 20 years ago and they stopped They started using wraps and that wasn’t good behind brick Now they are using more expensive products Go back to cheap styrofoam over plywood

[@lanceodell8058]

Love the game graphics, that flash tool looks like a composite carpet tuck tool.

[@jimmyt8535]

Wouldn’t it make sense to install on the inside of exterior walls behind internal linings? Your heat source is inside thus removing the fact you will require more energy to heat framing etc if on the outside?

[@jamesbradley3755]

Do you guys use ring shank nails for framing, floor and roof sheathing… 16d to 8d nails?

[@greeboart]

I had understood that, in the Pacific Northwest, walls needed to dry to the outside. How is this possible with the Zip-R panels?

[@AwesomeFramers]

Through the drywall

[@bibbidi_bobbidi_bacons]

Would be good idea to own a a fastener business with extended length fasteners

[@felixtrudel8565]

One of my concern with zip R and other equivalent products is the rigidity of the wall. I may be wrong but the role of the sheating is to provide rigidity to the wall in case of high wind, by creating a space between the studs and the sheating, the nails have more wiggle room and i have doubt about the wall being has rigid... But maybe i am wrong... I still went with a separate continuous insulation even if it meant a little bit more labour

[@AwesomeFramers]

We addressed that in the video. The Zip panel is a Struc 1 panel and there are shear nail tables for it 👍👍

[@RossHotchkiss]

Timely video! All the builders and suppliers in our area are scrambling for CI solutions right now (although we knew it was coming for over a year). Naturally, everyone thinks their pet idea is the exact right way to do it. I'm kind of liking the ZIP system - fenestration flashing is a lot simpler vs trying to flash a furred-out RO.

[@AwesomeFramers]

There are a lot of benefits. Truthfully, if we could find a better way to do it, we would. This is the simplest and lowest cost we've found.

[@joe5834]

"upping their game in energy efficiency" is just another way of saying "to make shareholders alot of money". Mandatory demand runs construction from Washington to Rhode Island apparently

[@bibbidi_bobbidi_bacons]

Really trying to push that zip brand panels lol

[@ryansoo4000]

The number of concerns people have with shear values and ZIP R seems to increase as the foam gets thicker between the OSB and the studs. What if you just added diagonal metal bracing straps to the studs for extra shear resistance when using ZIP-R thicker than R6? And as an aside, the Godfather of Forensic Building Science, Dr. Joe Lstiburek, once said of ZIP-R: "Good luck achieving shear values with that" - I don't think he was a fan.

[@agsystems8220]

I wouldn't be so worried about the shear strength, as the fact that it is being borne by 1" of nail effectively in free space. The nails have become structural members, not just fasteners. As the building loads change in the wind, they will move, and over time they might creep. Nails are supposed to work by keeping tension between the two elements, and then relying on friction between them for the majority of side loads. That doesn't happen here. I wouldn't trust the longevity of such construction. How long is the warranty? Such a system needs to be 3 layers. It needs a structural layer adjacent to the frame, an insulation layer, and a barrier outer layer. Trying to use the outer layer as structural is asking for trouble. I would guess the primary reason framers object to an inner structural layer is that it is the structural layer which needs to be fastened, and trying to use a nail gun on foam and get a good fastening on the board beneath is going to be a pain. In a controlled environment the solution would be glue, but that is really hard to inspect. I guess you could push the board out and if it stays put then the glue is good enough.

[@charlesviner1565]

👍🔨

[@WB-zr7pq]

Do you ever share your sketchup resources for your layouts? I love seeing the zip system previz and accurate architecture files being used in tandem with your builds. Someone actually checking the details while framing is so reassuring.

[@DontAatMe]

Another thing I didnt like is the way the foam is adhered to the osb. Its just a squiggly line of glue or whatever adhesive. Not full coverage not laminated at all. I suspect this will cause moisture to be trapped between the foam and osb, most likely becoming moldy and eventually rotting away the osb. Not a good product imo

[@CaedmonOS]

Eyes are not irreducibly complex. You can remove complexity from the eye and still have a functioning object. It might not be an eye as you would think of. You wouldn't be able to see as well, but you'd still have a use for it.

[@BWIL2515]

Building has changed a lot from when I started in the early seventies i always thought that we should have been using a weather resistant tape I've found duct tape and other stuff on demo's this system now is what i always thought should have been easy to get. Thanks

[@tad3900]

how does external insulation affect the lateral loading for seismic or wind? Like with the zip r having that half to inch and a half space between the sheathing and the stud allow the nail to wiggle. Okay, I spoke too soon. Really great video.

[@eliinthewolverinestate6729]

Use some zip around windows and doors for thermal break. Windows and doors closer to inside helps too. Less cooler space from window on inside. Then can put shutters on for those in the cold areas or need bear protection on windows.

[@TheGuyOutdoors1]

Never seen it to meet code you need the most expensive sheeting on market. Seems like a monopoly scheme. And i live in the rustbelt. Sheathing walls makes it weigh more so when it crushes you, it really crushes you 😂

[@kwhatten]

Does polyiso offgas? The guys cutting it aren't wearing face masks! And do all nail heads need to be taped?

[@hpw59]

I always put my fascia on before raising the wall and would toenail rafter tails to back side of subfascia of course making sure it was straight first.

[@AwesomeFramers]

We add the fascia after the tails are on, but prebuild the soffit.

[@BirchwoodBill]

Wish we could use timber screws on ZIP R12

[@tomleonard6177]

Why are they requiring it? Because they don't have to care about ROI when spending someone else's money. Fascism.

[@AwesomeFramers]

That isn't actually the answer to the question, but I understand your view point.

[@tc9148]

Love it, fantastic best practice details.

[@44godson]

Great information on the use of these panels and the energy conservation involved. I will rewatch just to reinforce my understanding. Great video

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

Thank you for joining in

[@CPK007]

What is with the gap between panels? Love Steve!

[@AwesomeFramers]

Insulation should be tight, panel gapped. You can see it when I was nailing the panel. I should have mentioned that.

[@stevenbaczekarchitect9431]

Thank you!!!!

[@clutch747]

T-studs?

[@Braindead154]

I’m willing to bet $500 that when this residence is complete, if we did a UA target calculation and compared it to the UA factor of the entire building envelope, R402.1.4 would show that continuous insulation was completely unnecessary to meet code. That’s not to say it’s not a great product. It’s just not required in most cases.

[@petersallay5221]

In our market builders are applying EFIS directly onto ZIP without a crinkle wrap or drainage wrap. I checked Huber’s technical specs and that is in fact shown in an image as an approved method of applying EFIS. Isn’t that asking for potential water penetration when the caulking between the EFIS and window ultimately fails? I wouldn’t think that there is much drying potential for the ZIP in this case.

[@mikecardenas2364]

Thanks for the great content you are always putting out! Do you have any video of setting doors with Zip R-6? Thanks and God bless!!

[@AwesomeFramers]

No I don't, but next time I'll show it. Basically frame the opening 1 1/2" bigger all the way around then add 2x ripped to match the wall depth.

[@mikecardenas2364]

Sounds good look forward to seeing it next time. Thanks for the info on how to get it done.

[@Tom-sd5ru]

Bought the max stick nailer out. Thats one sexy looking nailer😂

[@beemerkon]

Hacks lol i kinda got that feeling also double silliness

[@essentialjudge2279]

You could get the stiffness back with just some lay-in braces before applying the sheathing

[@AwesomeFramers]

I don't' think that offers enough lateral resistance where we are at. I would look at metal strapping from Strong-Tie as an option if we can't get enough lateral on a future plan.

[@jmhall918]

“B T Dubs” 😂😂😂

[@approots]

Didn't see you address the wall condensation issue with Zip (where the vapour barrier is on the outside of the wall) in cold highly humid zones (like Washington State). I'm wary of any sealed panel system in that climate.

[@AwesomeFramers]

I didn't address any of the climate zones. The scope of this video is mosty about what the product is, how to install it and why we use it. It is not a deep dive into the different climate zones or potential issues. In our climate zone here in WA, 4 & 5C, there aren't condesation issues following the construction shown in this video.

[@approots]

@@AwesomeFramersI'm close in coastal BC. It's just that Steve discusses the advantages, but not so much the disadvantages or what climate zones it's best. Also, going for more than R6 might not just be a cost issue if you consider it might eliminate wall condensation. I think in our climate, the standard interior poly vapour barrier and zip (no cavity drying) might not mix. I haven't found any long term studies having moisture sensors in the wall for zip systems with a variety of vapour barriers.

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@approots I hear you. I feel like climate zone gets us close, but its almost still a site specific discussion. Have you tried asking those quesitons over at Green Building Advisor?

[@approots]

@@AwesomeFramers I've read a lot there, and it's great, but without the controlled long-term studies it's all theory and anecdotal experiences. Still looking for solid data.

[@SaerTurner-wn2qh]

Finaly your using a Router better suited to the job I am shocked the little 1/4 hp cordless even lasted as long as it did ..How you liking the metabo HTP I love mine ..was looking at the Milwaukee because it has the track adaptor but I have my Festool for that but for on the job warranty and durability so Far the Metabo is Boss cheers

[@AwesomeFramers]

Metabo HPT is a great router. The little DeWalt is from 2019. If it can route oak, it can route OSB 👍

[@ceterisparibus51]

I experienced issues with the foam board gumming up my router bit while cutting out openings (because the heat generated melts the foam). Don't know if this is typical???

[@madman432000]

Just so I won't forget by the end of video, you may actually cover this, but on that inside corner do you cut back the osb part of the first sheet and then but in the corner piece so there is no thermal bridging in the corner? That 7/16" of osb touching the framing member will cost money in energy ya know, definitely measurable. I like the double mud sill idea.

[@AwesomeFramers]

Nope, just butt it. I run 1 panel into the corner, then the next panel into the panel.

[@francoisbouvier7861]

What is the integrity of the sheer portion of this sheathing product? Likely fastening with 2 1/2 nails? The sheer can't be equal to a conventional sheathing material.

[@AwesomeFramers]

I addressed that in the video. For the R6 we need to shoot a 3" minimum nail for shear. www.huberwood.com/uploads/documents/technical/Code-Recognition-in-High-Seismic-for-Insulated-ZIP-System-R-sheathing-ER-0482.pdf

[@jolookstothestars6358]

Will you be nailing the siding into studs ? If yes is there going to be enough nail penetration into studs? I guess if you use 3" glv. nails. But then there is window and door trim.

[@AwesomeFramers]

No, www.apawood.org/nail-base-sheathing and we use the Paslode TetraGrip studless nailer for a lot of siding.

[@whitneybrown9354]

Since you are closing the envelope I assume you are bringing in fresh makeup air?

[@AwesomeFramers]

yep, we bring in air and filter it through and ERV. I'll do a video with my brother to follow up on this.

[@josephstevener7499]

How toxic is that Styrofoam when it catches a fire? And how flammable is it?

[@AwesomeFramers]

The polysio has a higher rating than other foam insulation and is above the code threshold for requirements to cover in our code.

[@claystewart7626]

How would tape the zip if it was on the inside of the wall

[@AwesomeFramers]

Inside corner? I showed that toward the end.

[@miklostitton7961]

Hi! Why don't you chamfer the sheets at the corners? :) Nick

[@AwesomeFramers]

I don't feel its worth the time. Whatever we can do to make all of this simple is my thinking.

[@miklostitton7961]

@@AwesomeFramers You're absolutely right, but for a tool shed or a doghouse etc made of leftover sheets would be sickly cool... 😉

[@kmonk7853]

Innotech windows and doors are awful. We stopped using them.

[@maxwellgriffith]

Awful how?

[@AwesomeFramers]

They have been great for us. What didn't work well for you all?

[@kmonk7853]

@@AwesomeFramers just a few things that started adding up over a few projects, we did about 7 houses and pushed the company hard to our clients because of the energy efficiency but in the end it didn’t make sense. 1. Too expensive (was driving up the costs of our builds) 2. Labour intensive, being too heavy, needed more man power than we normally use, plus some of our projects the windows were so big we needed to do our own glazing otherwise they would have been too heavy to install. Also they require equipment and personnel on site for delivery to unload their special racking (when you do projects on acreages in the middle of nowhere this became a logistics issue more times than not) 3. In extreme weather (we’ll get a couple weeks of -40Celsius) There were some thermal bridging issues with the metal clips used for install. They can transfer the cold right through to the custom jambs and cause moisture issues. 4. Doors were sometimes a real pain to get to latch correctly and clients were having trouble with them. That being said we tried them out in the very beginning and haven’t used them for years so maybe some of these issues have cleared up. There are some definitely cool features on their products that are worth the price. If clients want them we will use them but don’t promote it anymore.

[@missulu]

So when do we get an alternative to the zip system and bring the prices down?

[@dovahkindragonborn9827]

you can buy OSB, 1 inch rigid foam panels, and a house wrap ... if you want to save on materials the reason people still use zip-R is it probably costs them more on labor to do it that way or the client is willing to pay more

[@AwesomeFramers]

There are a lot of alternatives, all of which have a higher installed cost. This is why we chose this.

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@dovahkindragonborn9827 you won't save any money if you buy and install these separately. I've done it, it's much more in labor, a lot more.

[@roberthigbee3260]

Polyiso (and XPS) R value drops as the outside temperature goes down - not a great feature for northern climates, but OK for southern. Also R value degrades with age, Polyiso’s R value drops 20% in 5 to 10 years. EPS (expanded polystyrene) insulation keeps its R value as temperature goes down and is expanded using Pentane gas, not hydrochlorofluorocarbons which is used to expand XPS.

[@shanonquits2833]

Take it a step further and mitre your exterior corners on the zip sheathing. I wish I had done that on my project. Would have my siding easier.

[@AwesomeFramers]

I don't see any value in mitering the corners. Overlapping is idiot proof, but now I want to try it 🤣🤣

[@JimDeVerna-yf2zy]

Great details on framing with Zip R6. Why didn’t you slope the bottom of the widow rough opening? Surprised Steve didn’t say anything.

[@AwesomeFramers]

Great question, and I'm going to be blunt. This is a waste of time, it doesn't actually work. We'd rather focus on detailing the siding and windows/doors/roof correctly. There are 10s of 1000s of homes that have no issue with water that would have been mitigated by sloped sills BUT there is zero evidence besides hypothesis that they work. Now I'm specifically talking about the siding we use here in the PNW e.g. fiber cement, SmartSide, cedar, shingles, lap and board on board, etc. We've pulled a lot of siding off old building and found nothing bad that wasn't directly related to crappy installation. As an example of my thinking, when I drive my car inside the garage after being in the rain, I see very little water on the ground. A few hours and its gone, that is with a sloped slab. I know, its not a great example. We will never see enough water past our siding and window that would overcome physics and drain down and out. In fact the ring from my coffee dries quickly and I just clean it up.

[@robertcromwell5409]

This is why house pricing will never go down. With all the new requirements added every year, all they do is add to the cost of building a house.

[@Roninbuilt]

Please be transparent….Are you being paid by Zip Systems? I need to know how objective this content is. Either way I’ll likely still follow and watch. Just need to understand possible bias. Thank you.

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@Roninbuilt I was very clear at the beginning of the video. How'd you miss the disclosure?

[@Roninbuilt]

@@AwesomeFramers awesome. Ty… could do without the sass. Unfollowed

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@Roninbuilt 🤣🤣🤣

[@bassfan41]

Those rollers are so dumb. I guarantee you can make that tape stick better rubbing it on with your hand

[@bobparrott9257]

Very doubtful

[@AwesomeFramers]

There are studies that show how wrong you are. BTW, it isn't just Huber that requires this, but look at where tapes are used in other industries......this is a requirement from the chemical companies that make the adhesives.

[@ceterisparibus51]

I think this is a Huber warranty concern. They can inspect any warranty claims by looking for the perforations left by a ZIP roller. Likewise a GC can check to see that their guys are installing it correctly.

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@ceterisparibus51 Rolled tape performs noticeably better than "hand pressed". Anyone can compare, they don't compare.

[@ceterisparibus51]

​@@AwesomeFramers Agreed (and didn't mean to imply otherwise). The bigger issue, IMO, is that unless you are rolling yourself, or have a very disciplined crew, it's hard to get contractors to do this (correctly/consistently/thoroughly). In my neck of the woods, I think this is largely because they don't see the value of the ZIP system.