explaining that one VERY controversial thing in Star Wars Jedi Survivor

Cere has a pretty huge moment in Star Wars Jedi Survivor that's caused quite the stir in the Star Wars community. It's time to explain how and why it happened.
Want to support me? Become a Member & unlock some sweet channel perks!
/ @mrhulthen
Discord: / discord
Twitter - / mrhulthen
📷 Instagram - / mrhulthen
🎮 Twitch (backup): / mrhulthen

[@orion5930]

Let's not forget that the archive on Jedha is located in the desert which means it is full of SAND!!!

[@impastabowl2328]

Most based

[@LucaBattiato-lm4rn]

He hates sand. It was weakening him😂

[@draconecare7634]

You all seem to forget that hatred makes the sith stronger

[@jw72]

@@LucaBattiato-lm4rn "...and it gets everywhere."

[@LucaBattiato-lm4rn]

@@jw72 Fr

[@kevieedo8194]

So people are mad because she was able to hurt Vader.. Vader was never invincible

[@Sabir_DelNorte]

That part! People have made Vader into this plot armor type of villain that has been bested by these other characters, wasnt star killer a formidable opponent to Vader? Didn’t he also stumble away after his confrontation at the temple with the Holocron in it when he faced Ahsoka? Why is this confrontation any different. As you say, people make him out to be invincible to everyone but Luke Skywalker ROTJ

[@thisguy4608]

Debatable lol

[@tsdobbi]

Obi-Wan managed to muster what he needed to beat Anakin (twice). Like, It's never implied Vader is just so beyond Jedi Masters he can just toy with them and win. Obi wan isn't "special". It's not like it was ever implied he was like only 2nd in "midichlorian count" to Anakin or something. If Obi Wan could beat Vader, there is no reason to operate under the assumption no other Jedi Master possibly could let alone just come close to beating him. I've already seen comments playing the "woke" card, saying they "just needed a woman character to beat up on Vader". I mean Ahsoka already did that too. I mean jesus now that I think about it, Vader has gotten his ass humbled a number of times, it shouldn't come as a surprise that a Jedi Master preparing for a fight with him for 5 years almost beats him. Obi Wan soundly beat him twice and could have ensured Vader was dead twice, and chose not to finish him.

[@ShizuruNakatsu]

Exactly. I hate the way this fandom puts Vader on such a pedestal. People think he should be this unstoppable, unbeatable, invincible machine. As if he should be able to do ANYTHING effortlessly, and nobody should be able to hurt him. He has been hurt several times. Others have hurt him before. He can be hurt. Nobody in the Star Wars universe is invincible. People made him way too powerful. Yeah, he IS strong, but a good Jedi DOES have a chance against him.

[@ShizuruNakatsu]

​@@tsdobbiExactly. It's nice to see someone with some sense in this fandom. I don't know why people think it should be impossible for a Jedi Master to have any chance against Vader. There's no reason they shouldn't be able to put up a fight against him, if they are a skilled Jedi at least.

[@loganskiwyse7823]

You're missing Vadar's fatal flaw IS overconfidence. From the beginning this was a part of his storyline. So, at this point in his story, he still has not learned from that lesson. It more than anything else is the reason for Luke's success on the first Death Star.

[@jacksoncabrera7236]

This I agree with. During the Mustufar battle Anakin thought he was overconfident that he could defeat obi wan in this fight but instead he lost due to plot armor. Obi wan simply had more confidence. Vader is much more slower in combat than he was in his flesh form rather than cyborg form. Sure he's still powerful but Cere almost had the upperhand until she died

[@itsthemumu8585]

Here’s the thing, Vader didn’t have an issue with overconfidence, Anakin did. Over time he develops into the monster, and becomes an unstoppable tank. I truly think he could’ve taken the Emperor’s place, had he gotten a fair fight, but Palpatine was smart to never give him that chance. Vader vs Luke on the Death Star is probably one of the most incorrectly analyzed duels in the saga. Vader outclasses Luke in every way, which you do point out, however you miss why Vader lost, and it was never due to overconfidence. Luke points it out so blatantly, that his father is conflicted. And what do we know about inner conflict in Star Wars? That it clouds your judgement. THAT is why Vader loses his fight with Luke.

[@Yes-ly1nx]

​@@itsthemumu8585 This is still a Young and overconfident Vader even younger than the Vader we see in Obi Wan I believe. It takes a long time for Vader to truly become the absolute monster he is by the time of the original trilogy.

[@younger371]

It’s nice to know people genuinely know how to consume media in these situations. Lool no one is thinking about what point in the timeline this is too 😂

[@Mwsopa]

@@Yes-ly1nx This vader is the same vader as in Kenobi (both takes place during 9bby)

[@theparrishshow9803]

I’d argue that putting up a big fight like this, getting seriously scarred and damaged, almost losing that fight, and then just walking away like it was another day at the office is significantly more bad ass than just tearing down every enemy with no effort at all.

[@officialmonarchmusic]

I agree

[@nocapp_]

Exactly it shows that he’s still a battle hardened warrior, like a Viking. Walking away with scars of a vicious victory

[@raphaeldouek3074]

0:10

[@raphaeldouek3074]

0:10

[@raphaeldouek3074]

😢. 0:10

[@cacuevas]

She didn’t miss the final strike tho, Vader made her miss

[@booboojohnson5091]

Yep, force slid her to the side at the last second.

[@flavaj13]

Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed it.

[@mithruikka]

@@booboojohnson5091 I thought he just did some hip action and dodged

[@blumind_nft3264]

@@mithruikka look at the position of his hand its a force pull to redirect her saber

[@mithruikka]

@@blumind_nft3264 a couple seconds back it looks like he shifts his torso to his right, and his hand is holding his lightsaber

[@majorasmask5523]

Yeah, I can believe it. If she’s been preparing for him for years? Yeah, he might leave with a few scars.

[@tylerscott4619]

Plus I’m willing to bet she’s genuinely just older then Vader soooo

[@DantheGif]

I mean, Ahsoka stood her ground and wounded him. And so did Obi Wan. People that embrace and accept their fear of Vader and take him on on their terms, have held their own and gravely wounded him, despite being "The Chosen One"

[@skylersimpson4692]

Uhh, no retard

[@trundelbum]

Guarentee its just a bunch of ding dongs riding for star wars theory..hes such a fan boy of vader he talked crap about the fight the whole time..whining about how vader got hurt..same guy who whines about rey being a mary sue..but also loves “the chosen one” and doesnt think anyone can hurt them😂

[@ThatGuy-tx4vm]

​@@trundelbumyou don't see things critically just cuz they're cool. How did ahsoka hurt vader? Hit him from behind when he was doing sth else. How did vader get hurt in the past? It either was when his suit was new and he was getting used to it or obi wan/luke. Vs kanan and ezra vader had a walker thrown at him and no damage. Vs momin he fell into lava and still was able to come out. Here he gets damaged by a bookcase. It is fine for cere to hurt him... But not like this. Show him getting hurt by things that have shown to be able to hurt him in the past, not by books.

[@jeriah4k218]

The number one thing I think made her fight so well against Vader was the absence of fear. Vader thrives off of trying to overwhelm and humiliate his opponents and cere was going for it

[@lilyunggucci]

Yeah this seems to be one of the number one thing people are missing. Vader has everybody who faces him shook to the core and it’s an obvious advantage for him but not so much against Cere since she literally says she gave up her fear. The only real weapon he had against her outside of his own abilities was now useless and that’s what made the fight spectacular for me. Not for one single second did I think “this is bullshit she shouldn’t be able to hold her own against him”. If anything I was thinking goddamn Cere is waaaay more powerful than we initially knew

[@kvothe7320]

​@HaunebuZwei bro I understand that you can love a character as iconic as Vader but if you are really going to ignore all the facts that we talked about in the comments and the video and say that the only reason Cere was able to put up a fight with Vader is just because she's a black woman all you do is give a bad image to fans of Darth Vader and Star wars in general

[@jeriah4k218]

@HaunebuZwei lmaooo

[@jeriah4k218]

@@lilyunggucci I agree. Everyone is trying to make it about the woke strong black female shit. Like no it’s deeper than that and there’s an actual reason for her not dying in two seconds. I just don’t know what else people wanted from the fight

[@TinNguyen-sw8uc]

@HaunebuZwei 4chan exist ,why don't you go there and be a sad and pathetic racist there ?

[@jacktheripper7735]

Fun fact, Cere doesn't miss her attack by an inch, Vader actually moved her hand to the side, he used her focus on killing him to win the fight by just moving her hand slightly Which I guess means she missed but still.

[@towablewarrior2426]

People really out here not recognizing that part of what makes Vader terrifying is how durable he is and that he continues despite severe damage. If you want a perfect duelist go for Palpatine

[@noirekuroraigami2270]

Bro it’s people who don’t know anything about star wars. And just mad for nothing😂

[@jamariojackson4289]

Yeah I’m tired of debating with people over this matchup. Cere had 5 years of training and growth, her mission was allow time for the others to escape with the valuable information. She let go of her fear and did what she was supposed to do, lmao idek what people are specifically mad at Vader lived she didn’t lol. It’s going to be in my top five Vader duels until something comes along that’s better tbh, and rn it’s easily in the upper section of that list.

[@greathornedyak9904]

Eh? Palpating actually hates lightsabers. He believes that the force is the only weapon a sith needs.

[@bleppyboo]

@@greathornedyak9904 Yet he also mastered every Lightsaber form

[@Shishakind86]

​@@greathornedyak9904 Interestingly, he mirrors Yoda in that regard who is also much more about mastering the force itself than petty sabers. Both of them are so powerful that while they can excel in lightsaber duels, they sorta transcended the mere clashing of swords.

[@Deathblooms130]

I think this fight made perfect sense and really showed Ceres growth over 5 years. i loved this fight a lot. She not only was a master during the clone wars, but she also had 5 years between fallen order and survivor to really reconnect with the force and perfect her abilities she also had Cordova there guiding her even more during that time. She was able to let go of her weaknesses from fallen order and grow as a character and this showed that. Something that's always bothered me is how Star Wars fans just want to consider every single jedi fodder for vader when, in reality, that would kind of make the title of Jedi master meaningless. Padawans and Knights, i can understand not being any form of challenge to vader, but masters are called masters for a reason. They are some of the best Jedi highly skilled in their abilities. It just blows my mind how theres those that are so bothered by this fight but then can defend Kenobi's fight with Vader who had the span of a few episodes to get back all his strength after hiding away for so long.

[@Tate_THG]

Personally both fights are bad, Vader Represents the Dark side, literally both in story and outside. They aren’t doing Vader justice, and Vader isn’t doing the Dark side justice.

[@overheatedeskim054]

10 year's. 5 year's between clone wars to fallen order and another 5 year's between fallen order and Survivor

[@Deathblooms130]

@Tate and I respect your opinion definitely. I just felt like to me, at least it made sense. I think Vader, to me, was depicted perfectly in this fight and really showcased him as being more of an unrelenting force that inevitably no matter how many times he gets knocked down he'll get back up and win in the end he relies very much on relentless raw strength. I've always compared Vader to someone like Jason Voorhees in that regard. But Kenobi, though, I definitely agree on he basically got most of his strength back in the span of a few episodes, and unlike episode 3, they hadn't fought each other in years and by this point were literally just strangers that didn't know eachother so unlike episode 3 they wouldn't have known how eachother would fight or anything.

[@earthdrawn]

@@Tate_THG, with regard to not doing Justice to Vader or the Dark Side, does it not? What I mean when I say that, does it not show that despite his attachment to the Force, is he not still human and therefore flawed and capable of being defeated? In my mind, this near defeat at Cere Junda’s hand enriches the character of Vader instead of reducing him to a trope. As for somehow diminishing the Dark Side, how is that? Only darksiders profess that the Dark is stronger than the Light. A critical look at the overall narrative would suggest the Jedi are correct in their perspective that while the Dark Side is seductive in the sense that all one must do to access it is surrender to one’s fear or anger, it is ultimately not more powerful. Sure, an individual can access power in greater measure with less effort, whereas accessing the same level of power from the Light could conceivably take years and an extraordinary strength of will. But the end result should, if the mythology holds true, be a Balance between the two. For my part, the near stalemate between Junda and Vader existing in canon is exciting, because it bears out what we’ve been lead to believe about not only the Force, but also humanity’s connection to it.

[@kieranadamson3224]

Honestly, I couldn't agree more. As you said, the Knights even can no doubt be easily overpowered. But for the masters there's two reasons why they should last a while but still lose obviously. First, as you said they'll be the best of the best, so they'll be the most likely to rival Anakin with a lightsaber. Second, Vader's ego and attachment to his skill with a blade means he will actually want to prove his dominance over them by putting in more effort than just snapping their necks with the Force. Also, as for Cere and other Jedi hurting Vader. I feel like it's a lot more in character for him to have multiple instances of "nearly dieing" only for him to just reappear later, repaired as if you never landed a single hit. Really adds to that motif around him as if he's a relentless demon that no-one can defeat. Even Palatine.

[@luckmaker6250]

The amount of times I died vs Vader sold me on his toughness. I hadn't used the single blade stance since the opening, but he's still probably the second hardest boss in the game and I couldn't cheese him like I could by making the Beldam Smashers fight the Spawn of Oggdo.

[@Coonazz791]

Yeah, Vader definitely didn’t let you cheese him like in any other fight in the game. You waited even a couple of seconds out of range of his lightsaber, he pulls you to him.

[@Foxtail190]

It really felt amazing. The one boss I physically could not be mad at. I was just like "Yes, KILL ME MORE" Pure masochist energy at that point. I love how he swapped his moveset every phase and had multiple, really made it so you couldnt abuse one attack every time

[@es_three232]

This is the only fight in the game that I was ok being bodied by. Like its Vader, of course imma die lmaooo

[@notmephisto1375]

I only could beat him when I let go of my fear like Cere had. When I was trying to avoid him I got close but eventually was worn down, but when I went full throttle on him I was victorious.

[@ethangilbert4896]

Yea fr it was hard as fuck him and dagan gera final boss is hard af

[@EndlessDreamer448]

From the comic Cere is in it's already stated that she has crazy potential but had trouble regulating her emotions which held her back. Vader even admits she is strong after forcing him to his knees briefly and blocking his strikes with a force barrier which seems unique to her in Fallen Order. This all happened while still out of practice from being cut off from the force for years. The version we see in Jedi Survivor is Cere at her full potential. A power that was always there but at this point she has mastered not only that power but herself. She was a har's breadth from ending Vader and like it or not those are the facts.

[@MenrvaS]

Imagine the troubles Cordova had to go through with Cere in her younger years. That poor man must be exhausted 😂

[@donovan4222]

I’m not arguing those facts, but I would of preferred that Vader fight Cal, Cordova and Cere at the same time if he was going to take that much damage. It would be way more badass. And Even with Cere getting much stronger, the power gap is so great that this would feel more believable for me, and would also give Cordova a better death, and make things more emotional for Cal.

[@noahsibahi-jackson8757]

Regardless we are talking about a man who despite having lost potential in the force still rivals Palpatine and Yoda in terms of power and you believe Cere has a chance??

[@noahsibahi-jackson8757]

@@donovan4222I absolutely agree with this

[@donovan4222]

@@noahsibahi-jackson8757 Yeah huge missed opportunity for an insane 3v1 duel with Vader and 3 Jedi master level opponents, would of been awesome to see. I like Cere, but it would feel more respectful to Vader as a character for it to take 3 masters to damage him.

[@wolfhunterplays3954]

Are people really upset that a Jedi master who has been training for this literally said in the game was able to give Vader a challenge?! Dude, Vader is powerful and very intimidating, yes, but he is not invincible!! Y’all are acting like Cere is Rey or something! Rey is no Jedi and destroyed Sidious, very stupid!! Cere is a Jedi master and put a hurting on Vader, makes perfect sense!! There’s no winning, because people will always find something to complain about!

[@Sabir_DelNorte]

Agreed

[@vvrathhps]

They're all acting as if Vader lost, he didn't. Cere died. But she put up a fight as a Jedi Master that knew about Vader and prepared for him would. Ultimately it wouldn't be enough.

[@vajkperduk]

Well she put Vader in a position where she could’ve easily killed him. He could barley stand after the fight. If Cere wouldn’t jump at him it’s over for him. And yes it’s strange that Cere almost killed Vader and also strange that an old man was able to beat him, who hasn’t even held a lightsaber for 10 years

[@vvrathhps]

@@vajkperduk ROFL easily killed Vader? What planet are you on dude? Don't confuse feeling pain after a fight is over with the actual fight. Adrenaline does some crazy shit.

[@NoThankYouToo]

So after 45 years of being neigh unstoppable, a middle aged woman can give him a fight?! Gtfo It’s pandering. Nothing more.

[@kylecochrane4450]

It was obvious that Cere wasn't going to come out of this battle alive or victorious as the game is apart of Cannon so Darth Vader cannot die at this point but the fact she held her own against Vader and had actually prepared for this event makes it more epic and all the more sad knowing Cal just lost another master/mentor

[@notmephisto1375]

Right, yet people cry about it, but back in the day everyone jizzed themselves over Starkiller completely breaking canon.

[@kylecochrane4450]

@@notmephisto1375 Yet the Force Unleashed 2 went with the other ending that lets Vader live but it hardly matters since Starkiller is a Legends character not apart of Cannon

[@notmephisto1375]

@@kylecochrane4450 sure now he is, but at the time it came out I found it to be an abysmal wreckage of canon, but no one was complaining then about Starkiller being too powerful because people wanted that power fantasy. Today though people are upset about Cere's strength even though Respawn has actually done a great job making this fit within the canon without going completely overboard.

[@kylecochrane4450]

@@notmephisto1375 George Lucas didn't write Starkillers character someone else did, If people complaining annoys you so much just ignore them

[@notmephisto1375]

@@kylecochrane4450 that's a weird bar to set as 95% of all Star Wars material hasn't been written by Lucas.

[@donovan1345]

The reason they struggled against Vader in the first game is because they weren't adapt in the force as they should be. Cal and Cere both lost a lot of connection with the force. Cere had it worst, she couldn't even use the force until she got her confidence and willpower back. Cal helped her get that back. Cal had to basically retrain himself in the force, throughout the first game and some of the second. In the second game, we run into a centered, confident jedi master that fought hard to win her battle against the dark side. She even says this in Jedi survivor. She was fully connected to the force again. That's the reason she was able to stand toe to toe with Vader. The reason Vader kinda got his butt kicked, a bit, is that his thought of Cere as a weakling, he was too overconfident and underestimated her. That's why she got the upper hand in the fight. A true fan of Star Wars would have known this.

[@DromusTH]

Mhm

[@ryanbaker5296]

i don't mind that cere got some hits in like if you look at the cut scene she only hits him like 3 times and drops the archives on him which did most of the damage and this was his own fault for being so arrogant i mean im not so big on the fact that in the game if u look at the codex it say cere almost killed him like vader suppose to be 80% of palpatine power so for cere to almost kill him i think is a stretch

[@SilverPh3nix]

@@ryanbaker5296let’s be real she didn’t almost kill Vader, shouldn’t say that in game but whatev. People get mad for no reason, Vader won

[@TevyaSmolka]

Honestly I was a fine with fighting Vader in this game

[@AntonNight]

Same! I find it more fun when it isn’t an absolute curbstomp. If anything, this should make Vader more impressive. It’s one thing if he is just demolishing less capable opponents who are terrified of him, but for him to win after all the trouble she gave him shows that he isn’t so fragile that he relies on never being hurt, but that he powers through it and does the job all the same.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@AntonNight indeed

[@chazo1367]

@@AntonNight the people who are upset have built Vader into this unbeatable an invincible monster. He only gets so far because he has “Super Plot Armour” he’d be dead long ago before the OT if it weren’t for the fact we KNOW how his story has to end.

[@23SodaCan32]

This makes a lot of sense. Honestly I didn’t give it a second thought the moment she said “I’ve been waiting “ I figured she had been training those 5 years and I believed it immediately I was rooting for her.

[@superdougie4637]

You made some really interesting points here! A lot of people have also theorised that maybe when Vader gets hurt after that fight with Cere it explains why he’s in the bacta tank during the start of the Kenobi series. Which I think is a good theory as both Jedi Survivor and Kenobi series are set around the same time.

[@jamariojackson4289]

That is a good theory, never thought about that 🤔.

[@H4WKB13]

Actually I think this part of the game takes place after Kenobi as when you first meet Cordova he's mentioning a Jedi being hunted on Tatooine, add the timeframe of the whole game and I think this puts Jedha after the fight with Kenobi. As for Vader being in a Bacta tank, that's literally something he has to do all the time.

[@DKhuluq]

​@@H4WKB13I also think this is after fighting Obi-Wan for the last time in Kenobi. He's been shook, he's going after the Hidden Path with a vengeance but he's still rattled from Obi-Wan.

[@itsdantaylor]

I'm sorry but if Obi Wan can Humble vader by throwing a bunch of rocks at him I have no problem with Cere fighting him to a stand still.

[@RSK_WMD]

And what has ever been shown to put Cere on the top level of Jedi such as Obi Wan? That's my problem, I don't care if she is that strong, I care that she was strong without it being shown she was anywhere near that strong until it was convenient for the story.

[@flamesofchaos13]

​@@RSK_WMD She is a Jedi Master and tapped into the Dark Side that does indeed give power. Obi-Wan is an badass but he's not one of a kind or the best of the best...Many Jedi both during the Clone Wars and throughout the history of the Order are better duelists than him. What he is notable for is being patient and a great defensive combatant...But Yoda, Mace and yes other Master level Jedi that take years of training could indeed best him. Vader compliments her strength in Jedi Fallen Order. Vader doesn't make empty meaningless quotes. She saved Cal's life back then and survived to tell the tale...Before five years of additional training preparing for Vader. It didn't come out of nowhere you just don't like that a Female Jedi Master could almost defeat Vader...Keywords being almost and female given no complaints that a Male Jedi Master or Sith Assassin could get even closer.

[@RSK_WMD]

@@flamesofchaos13 being a master means literally nothing, masters died to commando droids with vibro blades, and Vader complimented she was "strong with the dark side" specifically, something she could not use if without fear as claimed. Your argument and what's stated do not align in the slightest.

[@flamesofchaos13]

@@RSK_WMD Being a Master isn't nothing. It literally means she's on the same exact level as Obi-Wan in experience and combat prowess. She's strong in the Force overall...Also for Vader to compliment on anything at all shows she was skilled then he doesn't give it to the Inquisitors. Also the explanation is what you're outright ignoring...That she trained and prepared for five years specifically for Vader and that being Fearless makes her stronger than being empowered by the Dark Side.

[@RSK_WMD]

@@flamesofchaos13 claiming that masters are on the same level is enough to say you shouldn't speak on the subject. Being a master is procedural not a true mark of skill, clearly evident by the fact that many of padawan could mop the floor with many masters. Most masters that met grievous didn't survive, Ahsoka met grievous multiple times and made it out every time. Savage Oppress merc'ed a master without even having a saber whereas Kenobi held his own against both Oppress and Maul for a long time. Saying being a master makes a Jedi on the level with those whom are proven to be one of the best of the period shows a lack of knowledge and nothing more.

[@jackaroniii]

A note for Vaders fight against In’fila; this was literally Vader who JUST got his suit and was not adjusted to it whatsoever. Not to mention, prior to his confrontation with In’fila, he was physically drained from having to fight the wildlife and many traps left for him on the way to the Jedi. And to top it off, his cybernetics were already damaged and he didn’t have a saber. All things considered he still put up a great fight despite being disadvantaged at every possible turn.

[@calcady7335]

In the Vader comic you referred to, Anakin has only been in the suit for a matter weeks. He didn’t even have a lightsaber yet.

[@Troy211]

She was a Jedi master! Not all of Vader's fights were easy. And yeah sometimes he just got lucky.

[@adamleblanc5294]

One additional point, Jedi seem to get a power up when they are standing up for innocent people and have accepted that their death may be coming. Cere is fueling her power with infinite compassion for those who need to be saved by the hidden path, and has completely given herself over to the force before the fight. She knows she may die, but it doesn't matter as long as the hidden path survives. Being in such a state is going to give her powers a massive boost.

[@dungeonguy88]

Yeah, we've seen this on more than one occasion, a Jedi that is fully in the moment and has accepted whatever fate might befall them for the sake of others can be vastly more powerful than they would otherwise be. Kanan Jarrus springs to mind with him managing an absolutely titanic feat with the Force for an extended period of time, once it became a matter of sacrificing himself to save his loved ones.

[@austinallen5066]

All very good points, I'd like to point out a couple more. Cere says that she has let go of her fear, we know that a force user in the light side with no fear is significantly more powerful than one who isn't a good example of this, is Obi-Wan vs Vader in Kenobi+. After Obi-Wan let's go of his self doubt, that he's afraid he's not enough anymore is when he defeats Vader. Lastly a very important note, allegedly this is fairly shortly after the kenobi series, Vader desperate for a win probably rushed before being completely healed thus, demonstrating his overconfidence again against Obi-Wan it cost him his limbs, against Cere almost his life. I believe after this encounter would be roughly when Vader is at his most powerful, the 10 years prior to ANH and being that we're heading into that time frame for the 3rd game I'd say Vader is going to be VERY scary

[@koenigkorczak]

It felt totally believable to me. I also knew from the second that Vader walked through the door that Cere was going to die. I believe Vader lets some of his stronger opponents hurt him so that they think they might have a chance to actually beat him, before he crushes them, to make his victory even sweeter.

[@LucaBattiato-lm4rn]

Maybe

[@flavaj13]

I don't think that was the case this time, he was overwhelmed and unprepared for the fight she was bringing.

[@LucaBattiato-lm4rn]

@Jason Soler Yeah I don't think that he expected her to be as strong as she was. Realistically, vader would beat her without limping away at the end

[@n0body550]

@@LucaBattiato-lm4rn Realistically, did you just say the word realistic about a space fantasy franchise?

[@LucaBattiato-lm4rn]

@@n0body550 😑

[@jacoblineberry1788]

I also want to point out how exhausted Cere was not just by the end of the fight, but throughout its various phases. The game makes a point of emphasizing points where she shows signs of being tired.

[@JoshaSolomon]

Cere was an absolute beast, she was a Jedi master. I LOVED it.

[@mikeyrocks8664]

I don’t find it hard to believe that she put up a fight. At the end of the day the light side is stronger than dark. Dark is quicker and easier but light is strong af. Also yeah like you said she has been training for him. Idk to me it made perfect sense. Also you’re a badass thanks for the content!!

[@mikeyrocks8664]

To be clear tho I love the dark side and if I ever get a choice in a video game that’s the way I’ll go. But as far as I’ve been able to tell from lore, light has a leg up on them. I feel like the prequels made the Jedi seem weak. But that Jedi order was so corrupt and frankly destined to fall because of their own ignorance. The High Republic is a good representation of the true Jedi order

[@AlejandroRodriguez-cy8ee]

@@mikeyrocks8664 .......no i think the dark side actually is stronger than the light side, from lore and story perspective. the problem is that no one can use the dark side's power to it's fullest potential due to drowning in power and letting their emotions overcome them. pretty sure the first jedi's were also sith users before turning into a new side tho i could be wrong on this

[@coffeesorcerer6980]

Same reason Windu *won against Sidious. I've been corrected by those below.

[@Lilac-and-Gooseberries]

He did win against Sidious

[@ayofat6542]

Windu did win lol. It’s been confirmed.

[@Gulmanzo69]

Ya the entire time I was fighting vader it just looked and felt like vader wasn't taking the fight seriously until the last few seconds

[@chronics3710]

Because he wasn't.. do you not know anything about vader? 😂

[@attackcrash655]

Yeah he only starts taking it seriously after cere pulls the archives down on him, in which he starts using both hands to fight

[@Gulmanzo69]

@Chronics I know he wasn't. What are you on about?

[@chronics3710]

@@Gulmanzo69 Oh okay so you were just stating the obvious then lol

[@Gulmanzo69]

@Chronics obvious to you and me, but some people might want insight into what it felt like fighting vader, not everyone has played the game and some people may have only watched videos so I was stating the obvious of how it felt actually playing the game so I don't understand the point in you commenting.

[@iisanulquiorrahara8]

This encounter was pretty much perfect to me and does all it can to prove that not only is Vader still a force of nature that has to be held back and cannot be defeated so easily still, it also gives Cere (built up throughout both games now) a fitting end after a badass display of force to hold back said force of nature. Vader is no less badass for having his confrontation and winning, while Cere is more badass now for taking it all as far as she did. Also, facing him on Grandmaster, that Force grab kills me every time.

[@samaron8970]

Thank you! I've been saying this from the start, Vader is not unstoppable, in fact, fallen order was the first and only time he's been presented as unstoppable in the mainstream, this is the guy that will lose to a kid with only a week of training from actual jedi. Conflicted or not, that should not have been a difficult fight if he was as all powerful as people like to pretend he is. A jedi master should absolutely be able to hold her own.

[@blumind_nft3264]

I'm actually not sure how long Luke spent on dagobah but he also had obiwan so he more likely spent months training in total plus raw desperate field experience that Luke underwent probably trumps temple training

[@samaron8970]

@@blumind_nft3264 well Obi Wan taught him for like a day, and he was only on Degobah for a few days at most since the story arc with the other characters happens simaltainiously and we see most of what they do. Plus he doesn't return to Degobah until return of the jedi. And as for feild experiance, I think it's safe to say the jedi in the clone wars had mpre of that too.

[@ryanbaker5296]

@@samaron8970 Its about a year from Empire to jedi so he probably spent it training but even so vader was conflicted he was not in his prime and luke did use the dark side which vader was not expecting also i don't mind that cere got some hits in like if you look at the cut scene she only hits him like 3 times and drops the archives on him which did most of the damage and was his own fault for being so arrogant i mean im not so big on the fact that in the game if u look at the codex it say cere almost killed him like vader suppose to be 80% of palaptine power so for cere to almost kill him i think is a stretch.

[@samaron8970]

@@ryanbaker5296 I don't, she's a telented jedi master and Palpatine is on par with Yoda. But it doesn't matter how much Luke trained, he would still not have a jedi to actually teach him practically, and Anakin spent over a decade training to be a Jedi, the notion that Luke could get up to Vader's level in a year without any real training has always been the biggest issue with episode six, but if he can do it, then Cere can easily do it too.

[@ryanbaker5296]

@@samaron8970 ok but im not saying luke is stronger than vader i always hate it when people say after like a year of training he is more powerful than vader like at that point anakin had trained for 12 years as a jedi and another 20 as a sith i was just saying those factors made vader weak same with the kenobi fight his emotion mess with his power make him conflicted so i can understand how he loses to kenobi and luke

[@jeffreystangojr]

Ever heard of this crazy concept called home field advantage? That's how the fight felt to me and I did not have a problem with it at all. Vader has a tendency to lose to the environment, hence why he lost to Obi-Wan in ROTS and in the Obi-Wan TV series. Also, Anakin was far from invincible in the movies, so not sure why people think he magically becomes invincible ones he puts the Darth Vader suit on.

[@tsdobbi]

This. Even as Vader he has been humbled a number of times. Ahsoka gave him a real fight. Obi Wan beat him twice once as Anakin, once as Vader. I mean the Obi wan examples alone should be enough to dispel his shroud of invincibility. There was nothing particularly exceptional about Obi Wan from a Jedi perspective, yet he managed to muster what he needed to beat Anakin twice. Why on earth couldn't another Jedi Master do the same?

[@lightokamii]

Home field advantage also came into play with Jedha bein an outpost for the light side of the Force.

[@chazo1367]

Vader is only invincible to people because he has super plot armour. His story has an end we know about, it can’t be altered.

[@ThatGuy-tx4vm]

​@@tsdobbi many misconceptions in here. Obi wan was a special jedi. He was not a gifted jedi. There is a difference. Kenobi is a product of discipline and hard work. By the end of the clone wars windu said he was THE master of defence. Meaning that in blade to blade combat he could not be hit by anyone. And he wasn't hit. He adopted soresu after attack of the clones, and that is the very last time ue is ever grazed by a lightsaber. Since then, he either wins every fight or is beaten through other means outside of lightsaber combat. As for force abilities he was not very powerful but he was extremely adept at using what he had. Not many jedi could survive the burial that vader did to him... Also see how far he pushed reva, a similar distance that vader pushed her as well. Obi wan by the end of the clone wars and beyond was top 4 jedi. He beat darth maul as a padawan and then beat him again in a 2 v 1 with savage and then finally killed him with three moves in rebels. Besides windu, yoda and sidious, no one could defeat obi wan during the empire era. As for ahsoka... She did not "give vader a fight". Watch it again carefully. He is in control from start to finish. His hits are pushing her back all the time, she is barely countering and her force push towards vader was completely ineffective. Vader was in a force clash with kanan and ezra when ahsoka sliced his mask... And even after that, with breathing issues, vader was still dominating and was about to kill ahsoka if she wasn't saved by the force nexus. Even maul was categorically against fighting him. As for cere. Her damaging vader is fine. The way it was done is not fine though. In the past vader has tanked much bigger things than a burning bookcase. In the comics he fell into mustafars lava and came out and killed momin. He was thrown under a burning walker and suffered no damage, he was stepped on by a giant walker and stopped it casually. Those same books that hurt vader were stopped with no problems by cere in the same fight. And obi wan(who is supposedly weaker than vader with the force) was smashed and buried with 6 boulders and took no damage at all. Why then did vader get all charred and burned from books? And had his breathing suffer as well? If they wanted to give cere an opening vs vader then environmental damage was the way to go... But it had to be sth believable instead of burning books. For example she could have leaped out of that circular area they fought in and crushed it around him or sth.

[@reanaa]

The transition between Cere and Cal is so beautiful. I was ugly sobbing, my husband and daughter were staring at me like I had lost my mind.

[@Foxster_13]

I actually didn't have an issue with this moment, but I also liked it that you can tell when Vader stops playing around (after Cere drops the archive onto him). I also believe that this is set after the events of Kenobi (if anyone has actual proof of this being wrong, please share it), so I believe that Vader would also be a bit off his game here as he would have faced Kenobi maybe a few months or even weeks ago which also ended in his defeat and would most likely still be trying to hunt him every chance he could and so once he hears about a potential Hidden Path clue, he might have thought "hmm.... perhaps Kenobi is involved, or there may be a clue to where he is." But instead, when Imperials start landing and make an ID on the jedi on the ground, he would have been disappointed to hear it's not Kenobi but also hears that it's Cere and decides to face her anyway, despite not thinking clearly and thus underestimates Cere.

[@sacb0y]

I believe this is before cause I heard the hidden path is referenced in it. I don't watch new starwars stuff to know myself tho, Jedi Survivor is an exception cause I like respawn as developers.

[@H4WKB13]

@@sacb0y It takes place alongside each other actually, the Hidden Path is part of that but when you first meet Cordova he mentions that a Jedi being hunted on Tatooine, that Jedi being Kenobi. If you align the game and the series I also think that this takes place after the fight with Kenobi.

[@960456]

It makes total sense. In Fallen Order, Cere had pretty much JUST reconnected herself to the Force when she encountered Vader. In Survivor, she's been training SPECIFICALLY for Vader for like, 5 years.

[@LucaBattiato-lm4rn]

5 years against somebody who's been training with a lightsaber and the force since he was nine. Definitely makes sense💀

[@960456]

@@LucaBattiato-lm4rn Did you willingly forget that Cere Junda was a literal Jedi Master before Order 66? Unlike a certain Chosen One...

[@LucaBattiato-lm4rn]

@Born2Boogup Anakin was master level, but wasn't granted that rank becuase of his overconfidence

[@960456]

@@LucaBattiato-lm4rn And because Ahsoka was never knighted.

[@LucaBattiato-lm4rn]

@@960456 Where did you get ahsoka from we aren't even talking about her

[@MikefromTexas1]

"The less Jedi there are, the more powerful they become" is actually a really old Sith idea, from Legends canon. If I remember right. One of the reasons Bane came up with the Rule of 2.

[@RampidWarthogStudios]

It’s not even far fetched guys. Pay attention to context clues. 1: Vader isn’t at his peak 2: Cere was complemented in Fallen Order in a weaker state. 3: She’s obviously someone worthy of Vaders time and someone he sees as a threat. Otherwise inquisitors would be sent. He’s even been searching for her… like Kenobi. 4: 5 years preparing is a long ass time… and more than enough for a former Jedi Master. 5: Gameplay and flash backs support the fact of how powerful she is. The whole “she can’t” “she’s a nobody” is a weak argument when 1: the story is telling you other wise. And 2: Supports it with plenty of evidence and build up. Cry about it. Edit: before any legends nerds start complaining just know there’s a EU comic where Vader gets trapped by a bunch of Jedi knights and almost dies until the 501st legion saves him. Then Palatine twists the story to make it seem like Vader killed 50 Jedi alone with no problem.

[@matikuti3738]

this

[@hannahsedits]

Exactly

[@95seb123]

Just a correction, she was a former Jedi Knight, not a master

[@RampidWarthogStudios]

@@95seb123 that’s true. But Vader being impressed by her power and hunting her is definitely note worthy.

[@JustBecauseidk5]

She obviously has become much more connected with the force, and Vader is strong but other Jedi have hurt him before

[@MidnightDoom777]

Cere has been training for this for 5 years, ever since Fallen Order, and she's let go of her fear. She turns the archive into an arena, doesn't run, and is fighting for innocent lives, and a full on Jedi master. Also, Vader lost to Obi-Wan the same year, so I can't tell if that makes this better, or worse.

[@fullonsociopath]

I liked a comment I saw somewhere else that says "Remember, that isn't Vader's Life bar, it's his patience meter."

[@fennec12080]

It kinda works in conjunction with the last encounter these two had i would say, like Cere letting go of her fear and all that and Vader indeed been shown a NOT invincible guy throughout comics at least which are canon so it counts, but lets face facts - he HAS plot armour, no getting around that and in that case said previous encounter in fallen order played into that fact and in doing so looked alot more organic. So guys had only one way of doing this - if you cant win, then make it look good at least. Though it feels a little bit cheap winning a fight and losing anyway in a videogame context. Ps once again cant help remembering that "Cal.... RUN!" From previous game - i liked that a bit more than what happened here - i have no qualms with what we got, but Vaders portrayal in fallen order i liked a littli bit more

[@franklyended1175]

Another point is the fact that it’s been a few years since Fallen Order, and potentially Cere had done the same thing as Cal, meaning that through these years she has strengthened her ways with the force and since she is a Jedi master, she is much wiser and powerful than Cal ever was.

[@Foxtail190]

People cant just take this awesome fight and love it bruh. This whole Sequence with Cere was fucking amazing.

[@bird9779]

Cere did cut herself off from using the force from the first fight. But it was cool to have the fight in a video game.

[@Dazzle_Novak_]

He still wanted to seduce her to the dark side again, make her one of inquisitors, we can see from the fight itself that until she dropped the archive on him he was just playing, using light attacks, barely flexing force push and pulls. Cere is definitely in top 10 strongest jedi of her era, yet neither Vader's arrogance nor her overwhelming strength nor her years of training exactly for this fight at this exact force nexus on Jedha weren't enough to stop Vader.

[@BabaKobu]

I would also assume since this plays around the same time around kenobi, he maybe has a stronger conflict in him which we could clearly see talking to obi and later the emperor. Maybe that also had an effect on his power level at that moment. Since He was absent until that moment he probably dealt with obi wan

[@paulthegreat99]

I'd also like to point out that chronologically, this fight is very close to his encounter with obi wan in the obi wan series, so he is probably still recovering from that.

[@robwatts5281]

Everyone is mad about how can Cere be this powerful…. When you should be wondering why Bode is so powerful….

[@impastabowl2328]

Bode was using the dark side, which is basically a short cut to power. Not to say that Cere shouldn’t be that powerful.

[@supergoodadvice853]

Bode was being sent out to gather intelligence before Order 66. These Jedi were among the most skilled- to the point where this group of unaccounted Jedi were a major threat to Palpatine.

[@robwatts5281]

@@supergoodadvice853 True, but he hasn’t been using any of his Jedi skills since Order 66. He didn’t even have a light saber until he took Dagan Gara’s

[@robwatts5281]

@@impastabowl2328 True, but Cal also tapped into the dark side for the final fight. I guess my argument is more that it didn’t surprise me that Cere gave Vader a good fight, it was more surprising that Bode was so powerful

[@maxkogan3785]

Here's the thing so many people overlook: Vader was toying with her. Pushing right past her, casually shoving her with the force to show off his dominance. He doesn't start taking the seriously until *after* he was buried in burning rubble, afterwhich you can here him wheezing, meaning that his suit (specifically his respirator) was damaged. So when Vader was finally taking the fight seriously, he was struggling to breathe properly.

[@RelativelyBest]

Goddammit, Vader having trouble against a seasoned, fully trained Jedi should not be considered "controversial." It's entirely plausible for that to be a dangerous opponent for him, someone he has to take very seriously. He's very powerful and very dangerous but not unbeatable, we see this in his fights with Obi-Wan and Ahsoka as well - both of whom are not really _that_ special, just very skilled, experienced and generally good at what they do.

[@AuspexAO]

Cere's arc was that when she first faced Vader she was full of hatred and basically so close to going Sith that Vader was like, "hey you'd be great on my team." She learned to master her emotions and bring the full power of the Light Side to bear in her confrontation with Vader. And despite this she is still cut down. We see a hero that did literally everything she could to destroy Vader and was not able to. It's a tragic death and pretty much the end of the resistance of the Jedi until Luke. This was not some throwaway confrontation against a random Jedi. This was a fight against the last bastion of the Light. And Vader won. To me that's way more horrifying than seeing him toy with some rebel troops in Rogue One or murder Younglings. He's a real Sith Warrior at this point, bloodied in battle against a powerful foe. Apparently a lot of Star Wars fans aren't writers, because they would know that powerful foes make for powerful characters.

[@kokushibo1014]

Also Cere uses the dark side to fight

[@baki484]

Not here

[@kokushibo1014]

@@baki484 She is constantly using it. When cal use the dark side his attacks are the same as cere

[@baki484]

@@kokushibo1014 she actually not using the darkside. The same maneuvers and techniques can be used by those using the dark side and light side. You ever heard of the 7 forms of lightsaber combat? Because the jedi and sith have been using them.

[@joseromo4359]

@@baki484 my mate @Kokushibo it’s talking about force powers. If you pay attention when Cere unlocks doors inside the Jedha base, she smashes them. That same ability Cal learns when he uses the Dark side, not with his jedi abilities. And taking the point that Cordova was friends with Qui Gon (Cordova mentions it in the game), Cere and him are a different type of jedi (such as Qui Gon was), one more connected with the force and their emotions, accepting their dark side, their bonds and releasing themselves from the fear.

[@H4WKB13]

@@baki484 The book basically confirms she found a balance while using dark side powers.

[@foxhound_YT]

Vader has become so convoluted and changed so much by Disney and comics etc that no one has any idea how powerful he is or isn’t. He used to be scary, not anymore.

[@REYTRACER]

I mean the video uses some comics to give a pretty good explanation for this fight at least.

[@Serrano__i]

Massive respect for you being courteous about the spoilers. Nothing in the title or on the thumbnail and even had a very prominent warning. Easy way to earn a sub

[@blackreaper2247]

also the force surges through those jedi that open themselves to the force, especially those that can let go of the emotions that keep them from submitting themselves to the force as a whole. its no different than when Obi-wan finally lets go of his fear, regret, and pain that he was able to best Vader in the Obi-Wan series. However despite the increase in power she in the end was still not enough.

[@TheOriginalMasterOogway]

Its mad to think she gave him a run for his money. I didn't realise how strong she was

[@starwarsfan9963]

She really didn’t. 😒

[@David-es4pi]

She really did 😁

[@matikuti3738]

@@starwarsfan9963 She did

[@TheOriginalMasterOogway]

@@starwarsfan9963 are you dumb? She nearly killed him TWICE! tf you mean she didn't

[@chazo1367]

@@starwarsfan9963 bro was limping at the end. She hurt him with that bookshelf. He’s allowed to get hurt and nearly die. Seeing him sweat swamp and win easily is boring.

[@julien6871]

The thing about this fight is that it’s very obvious who’s winning from the start Vader was winning you can tell even on Grandmaster he wasn’t trying during the fight. Also Vader is a paragon of saber dueling above any person in the galaxy including Sidious. Having statements of being faster in reaction speed and his mastery and affluency in all saber forms

[@ForeveraBoss117]

Imo favorite detail of Vaders attacks in this fight is how they mess with your head on the parry timing. The arc from his slash starts its entire hit box the second he moves his blade as if it slices you before you can see it. It’s why you have to parry it an instant earlier than any other enemy in the game and that miniscule change makes him seem so unlike anything we’ve fought before

[@ServantOfOdin]

The one thing about Vader that bothers me is him being a boss, and not an escape sequence. Hear me out. We always know Vader as the most ruthless and merciless warmachine of the Empire. An unrelenting force that only Palpatine could really control and only his own son could defeat him. And this was propagated and built upon by dozens of comics and books where Vader is hunting some Jedi and ends up defeating them, doesn't matter how, he killed them. Then we get to Force Unleashed 1 and 2 and Vader can be beaten by his protegée Starkiller - twice. Then we see him having a stand-off with his old Master Kenobi in the show of the same name and Vader does not kill Kenobi. Yes, yes I know Kenobi must've survived that for ANH to happen and Vader must've survived Unleashed 1/2 for the original trillogy to work, yadda-yadda - still, being such an unrelenting savage beast, he should've wiped the floor with his far younger and comparatively poorly trained apprentice Starkiller, and mauled Kenobi, forcing him to flee. Then we have Vader in Fallen Order and he's an undefeatable bossmonster in an escape sequence. Perfectly done and executed, that's how Vader is. And now he's a regular boss who nearly gets his dark plastoid-encased butt handed to him by Cere, who only dies because she misjudged the angle of attack a bit (well, and Vaders plotarmor hindered her). And how does Vader walk off that confrontation? Not like he usually does, wheezing but with a sturdy and sharp step. No, he limps, creaking and clearly close to falling apart. He got nerfed.... If you want to call that nerf arrogance, fine by me, but it's a thing we see happen more and more with every game where Vader is an opponent we have to face. We beat him, only to have a cutscene suddenly regain his strength, composure and rage and beat us faster than it takes me to write that sentence, while we took minutes upon minutes to slowly whittle him down to that slither of health that triggers the scene. Vader should be kept more as an escape-sequence boss to sell his danger, be an undefeatable rolling oncoming storm that slowly wipes out friends and allies but the hero-character someone manages to elude at the last moment, or be mentioned only but does not appear but for some cutscenes were he broods over an escaping ship or something.

[@overheatedeskim054]

No Vader shouldn't have destroyed Cere at all. Vader has got his a$$ handed to him in every single Jedi Knight fight he's had but he always clutches last minute.

[@largegroupofmales]

Not really sure how I feel about Vader getting his ass kicked 6 ways to Sunday by the new abundance of council level masters in hiding in the new canon. I do like Cere, but I do wish Vader was portrayed a bit more convincingly invincible, I really don't think a non council master should be able to nearly kill him. Maybe I'm just a legends fanboy idk

[@mikekelly592]

I don’t think she nearly killed Vader, more like just gave him a long day 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@blueversace4447]

Probably has to do with Legends, cause as a fan who only knows the movies/shows, Vader was never invincible. I mean, Obi Wan torched him on Mustafar. I think the important thing is that as powerful as Vader is, his ability to not take his opponents seriously rivals that power. He plays with his food here and almost dies for it (I’ve seen it said the same thing happens in Legends?) And Cere is a formidable Jedi herself, who is not here to play games.

[@TheOriginalMasterOogway]

Well he's still quite young when he fought her. He only would've been Vader for a little while so he's still adjusting

[@JimmyThree-Balls]

​@@blueversace4447this isn't legends anymore mate, sad as it makes me to say it

[@fiddler9804]

That's the thing. For a moment, Vader was an unstoppable force, but lately he's been portrayed as weak/stupid

[@bbott137]

If shes a jedi master who survived the purge and had been training with the knowledge vader exists I have no problem with it. Which is all true. Vader gets beat up a ton in comics and novels. The reason he is terrifying is because he is a force of will and gets past each encounter.

[@dopeastro]

people are forgetting, this game is RIGHT after Kenobi series. Vader is so conflicted at this time

[@projenitor2387]

Like a few said here Vader used to be scary not only because of the fear that walked with him but his sheer rage. They toned him down so much and forgot with how much hate and rage he fights with. You can tell in the cere fight there was none of his iconic energy around. He also felt super misplaced and his intro in this game should have forshadowed enough he wasnt going to be much of a threat. When he showed up in the first game I had Flashbacks when Cal asked if we should run... I knew what vader had been through, Cal had no idea...

[@starwarsfan9963]

I think you are just looking for things to complain about. And he fought pretty well if you ask me.

[@projenitor2387]

@@starwarsfan9963 Look at every movie or piece of media where he used his saber. He was a Joke in this game lol

[@chronics3710]

@@projenitor2387 Sounds like you need to play on a harder difficulty where he uses all his attacks. When he gets on fire it's immediately obvious he gets serious.

[@projenitor2387]

@@chronics3710 He didn't instill fear the same way he did when he had his intro from the first game. Or any other part he's played in other star wars media. They half-baked him, figuratively and literally. I don't even really think he belonged in this one.

[@chazo1367]

@@projenitor2387 you realise he only seems so powerful because he has super plot armour? He’d be dead long before the OT if he didn’t have it but he dies at a set time. If he just steamrolled it would be boring, Cere is a master and trained 5 years for him specifically. He dicks around and gets debris dropped on him and wins. Also take gameplay out of the equation, Cere NEVER does direct damage to him, her saber doesn’t injure him at all, the cutscenes show he is the one controlling the flow and winning the blade locks.

[@Pir-o]

3:11 Taking Disney canon seriously? Now that's a challenge ;) Bu I don't think thats true. I mean sure, maybe for a new born jedi, but its not like Cere and Cal suddenly got a power after Order 66. Star Wars doesn't fallow The Highlander movie rules. If that was the case, every single Sith would be the most powerful being in the universe. Remember "the rule of two"? Their numbers were always way lower compered to Jedi. On top of that its easier to "level up" as a Sith since their power is based on anger while Jedi have to learn discipline and practise for years. My biggest issue with it is that every single writer wants to show Vader getting his ass kicked. In a vacuum its ok, its good story telling. But if you look at the whole picture? It just makes him look weak. The best part about Fallen Order was that they showed how powerful he really was. One explanation that kinda makes sense to me? I heard that their fight took place right after the Kenobi show. So Vader was still recovering from that fight. But than again that explanation forces me to acknowledge that Kenobi show was canon... but oh well... Also, I'm sure Cere is fiiiiine. After all according to Disney canon you can get stabbed multiple time and just... walk it off like Reva ^^

[@tsdobbi]

and I will forever say no matter how much people want to fight it, after more canon was established with the prequels. Luke Skywalker is a Mary Sue. Like 4 years pass from Luke even learning the force existed to undoing the two most successful Sith in galactic history and he was not engaged in like rigorous Jedi training for 4 years straight. BUT VADER WAS OLD AND CONFLICTED. Vader was 45, not some 70 year old geriatric. Dooku was like 80, defeated Anakin (with 10 freaking years of daily dedicated jedi training under his belt at this point) and Obi Wan a full fledged Jedi Knight in his 30's who had been training since he was a toddler and then Dooku held his own against Yoda. The Vader's age thing just doesn't compute, when we have an example of an actually geriatric Sith wiping the floor with two Jedi with 40 something years of experience between them. I don't think being conflicted would just ruin Vader's ability to fight at all. People complaining about this Jedi or that Jedi standing toe to toe with Vader when the reality is a run of the mill inquisitor should have been able to wipe the floor with Luke based on his actual experience level. Luke was made artificially exceptional. I mean, Rey was too, I'm not arguing she wasn't. But seriously, any argument Luke wasn't a mary sue because he got a little more training is splitting hairs.

[@mytotim8978]

But Vader IS weak, he is an equal to Obi Wan, not to Mace Windu, not to Yoda, not to Palpatine and not to the big names in Legends. He was a menace to non trained individuals, he could even challenge jedi masters, but he was not all powerfull or something, he never was.

[@maxmiliandealy9839]

I think Vader’s most dangerous trait is how he won’t give up. I remember in that comic he put himself back together with spare/junk droid parts. To see that unyielding side of him, requires him to be bested occasionally. It’s like those “in the lore” memes. Vader is a planet level threat alone based off of the things he’s “done”. But I like to imagine him as the emperors best lie. Not that he’s not insanely powerful, but that given enough Jedi resurgence he could be defeated. It adds to the showmanship in the fear he incites. I think that fits Anakin’s character really well.

[@jamariojackson4289]

Damn I never seen that in his comic lol.

[@chazo1367]

@@jamariojackson4289 yeah, it’s after ESB I think so Palpatine thinks he is losing control of Vader to his feelings and basically beats the crap out of him like an abusive parent. Leaves him on the sands of Mustafar again and tells him to pull his shit together to prove a worthy apprentice.

[@jamariojackson4289]

@@chazo1367 Lmao damn that’s savage, Palpatine is bogus for that tbh.

[@areebederci]

Great video. Its so stupid that anyone has to be explained all this, but you put all the points so well.

[@kellyelasky9163]

When you return to the scene of the Cere/Vader battle in the archives, & hear the sense echo where Bode was calling the Inquisitorius insisting someone alert Lord Vader that if wants Cere Junda, he best hurry to this site...not to mention alerting them that there's many Jedi here for the taking. His deceit was so disturbing.

[@TheAwesomeDarkNinja]

Star Wars fans when Jedi Masters are able to scuff Darth Vader's helmet:

[@aWildMoke]

Vader killed her by redirecting her blade with the Force and several times in the fight just completely controlled her with the Force, but Anakin and Vader have always had the weakness of overconfidence and a need to prove himself. In the end he got hurt because he was playing with his food against a Jedi Master who is powerful even if she's not quite on his level, overconfidence has caused many an athlete, fighter and/or team to lose against a weaker opponent in real life. If anything this is an accurate portrayal of Vadar who constantly toys with all his opponents but Obi-wan, instead of just ending them asap which would be the smart thing to do.

[@sonals7549]

great video, and great boss fight, although one point I think was glossed over was how out of practice he probably was, in the clone wars he was strong and proficient with his lightsaber and force ability's, but when the empire rose he probably fought much less compared to his time in the war, although he may practice in his own time nothing comes close to the real thing.

[@noventaeum]

Cere has become strong enough (and tapped on the dark side, apparently) to fight Vader. Vader isn' invincible, he uses fear and is usually overconfident in his duels, and has an insane connection with the Force. Felt fair that their duel went the way it did, considering she's a straight up Jedi master, and he wasn't taking it 100% seriously from the start. I don't think Cere would have been able to more damage than she did, tho... Vader's main thing ia how durable he is, and the situations he survived, that were way worse than that. He would have killed her eventually, given enough time. His connection with the force would have pulled him through the last moments for sure. Like Obi Wan managed to overwhelm him, by also tapping the Force a lot harder than usual, even though he's bettee known as great duelist (specially his defensive skills) and he still managed to mess up Vader's helmet and put him momentarily out of comission. Seems like people forgot why Vader is cool. He's not phisically unbreakable, he is human. He has flaws, and the flaws make him an awesome character.

[@c.w.simpsonproductions1230]

Having read Star Wars for a looong time, this is far from the first time Vader was defeated in combat by a Jedi survivor. It happened plenty of times in Legends. But a trend I noticed is that the same fatal mistake that Jedi make in both canon and Legends is that when they go for the kill, that’s when they slip up and he kills them.

[@davidbright8978]

No one is questioning how she and Cordova don't recognize Brody as a jedi also.

[@FivesNZ]

Love video you made. Star wars fans are so crazy they don't see someone who's in a suit and is in pain constantly due to mustafar can be beaten by someone who's willing to let go of there fear like Cere does. It's awesome. Keep up the great work man

[@patricktalbot8980]

Isn't the whole point of the light side of the force is surrendering yourself to it. And the more someone can accept giving up their will to the way of the force the more powerful they become. Clearly she has let go of her fear and anxiety and accepted the will of the force which would allow even a padawan to gain untold strength. I mean Jedi don't train to use the force they train to let the force take control.

[@sithazzazzin7329]

It was such a good fight, but as soon as Cere jumped into the air I knew it was over.

[@micro_hc]

as made clear by obiwan in his training as anakin skywalker. His need to prove himself is his undoing. This shows that vader is over confident because he exploits his natural talent and gift to show he is powerful. If vader overcome the need to be overconfident. He would have been the unstopable force we wanted him to be.

[@scubasteve1555]

Also people forget (its well documented in canon) that Vader is still strugling go adjust to the suit and also battling internally with Anakin.

[@ogdoge2669]

A cool little detail is how Vader holds her arm at the end of the duel, as if he used the force to pull her saber ever so slightly to the side

[@lazynin545]

this fight was pretty much from one of the vader comics when he goes to hunt the old jedi master librarian lady the way the fight ends is damn near exactly how it ended in comics if im remembering correctly

[@yoavmor9002]

Even in Jedi Fallen Order Cere went through Purge Troopers like they were butter. Cere was always more powerful than Cal.

[@lacesensor3358]

It was exactly the same when the Kenobi show released. People went complete insane writing comments about how bad the fight were because Vader should have killed Obi Wan without breaking a sweat. How anyone can think Vader totally destroying Obi Wan and him fleeing for his life would be a satisfying end to the show is beyond me. It's ridiculous how offended some people get when Vader doesn't innihilate everyone in his path.

[@ryanc970]

I have no problem with Cere doing some damage to Vader and leaving some marks, I think that's well within the realm of possibility. I think most people's problem was that she was literally inches away from actually killing him, and he was limping and barely breathing by the end. The only other time we saw him that beat up was at the end of Return of the Jedi after he threw Palpatine down the pit

[@ThatGuy-tx4vm]

Not even that. Vader does tend to get hurt a lot. And i mean a lot. He is careless in fights. But the method of injury was my problem. Burning books should not hurt him because he has taken no damage from far bigger hits in the past.

[@ryanbaker5296]

​@@ThatGuy-tx4vm yeah right he had a at-st dropped on him in rebles and just brushed it off i just don't like how it say in the codex that cere almost killed him like standing you're ground is one thing but almost killing vader who is suppose to be 80% of palpatines power.

[@ThatGuy-tx4vm]

@@ryanbaker5296 the almost is ridiculous. She almost hit him. Not almost killed. It is whataboutism. So stupid. If she would have hit him she would have won... No shit. Everyone would have won if their hits hit. Vader almost never got cut in half because if he didn't get caught by obi wans lightsaber he would have won. Ridiculous. It's not like cere missed vader because of some dumb luck or deus ex machina situation. Vader pulled her arm with the force...

[@ryanbaker5296]

@That Guy so are u agreeing with me or saying what I said was wrong? The databank said cere nearly defeated the sith lord darth vader I'm just saying I don't belive cere would have the power to do that much damage with a burning bookshelf

[@ThatGuy-tx4vm]

@@ryanbaker5296 im agreeing that they dropped the ball and overhyped what cere did to him. He was hurt and he was limping. But he wasn't at risk of death. Count dooku was always gasping for air after battles, doesn't mean he was about to die.

[@skyguysreactions]

People were upset about this? I thought it was tying in nicely with where he was in the *Obi-Wan Kenobi* series.

[@zachlina4812]

Anyone who is made at this segment hasn't read a Vader comic or any of the EU material. Vader getting beaten down and taking hits from people, especially a former Jedi Master whose been training for years to face him once again, isn't anything new in the slightest.

[@Dylan-vn7zq]

I do think this fight was absolutely brilliant, especially when I played it for the first time. I also think this fight, along with the kenobi fight which must take place only a few months between each other, or maybe around the same time when vader isn't even on screen, acts as lessons for him to not be overconfident

[@bowman303]

She was ready for that fight for years while it was just another day for Vader. He underestimated her

[@Rohnon]

Cere is not a Master, she was a Jedi Knight. And she herself denied that she grew in Power, she only reclaimed her Jedi Knight Power-Level. So, no we have not seen a Jedi Master in Action, but just a Knight.

[@kodylarson2983]

Right, we go through survivor with Cal and what were seeing is the young knight, inexperienced and new grow into being a knight proper. If there's a third game we will end up seeing a knight go down the path to becoming a master its a matter of will Cal survive the journey or not.

[@chazo1367]

Vader calls her Master Junda. So does Bode. She is literally called Master Junda.

[@monarchy7500]

idk if anybody noticed, but vaders final move was force pushing her arm to the side before she impaled him

[@edwardbooth8937]

This is also true as even at the end of ROTS in the duel with Obi Wan, anakin is known to be more powerful and a better duelist yet is defeated as Obi Wan used a technique forbidden by the Jedi to sever his arm and legs

[@RalphCahill]

It's also been speculated that, because Jedi Survivor is happening rather contemporaneously with Kenobi, it's possible Vader was still a bit weakened from his fight with Obi Wan.

[@alexanderforbes1452]

I don't have an issue with vader taking damage, he often does, I felt like it was a bit one sided though. Like, before he kills her she has the upper hand, and that probably shouldn't be the case for vader at this point. If she was a little more clearly hurt that would have gone a long way.

[@matthewdixon6966]

Just wanna say that luke skywalker with a few years of training kicked vaders ass

[@robempire]

It was a good fight. This was also younger vader still learning. Cere def grew through the couple years after the first encounter. This whole fight mixed with the Obi-Wan series fight showed the maturity on how vader focused his emotions to be stronger when facing an actual jedi or force weilder. His young years always used fear to his opponents. But his opponents learning not to fear him was his greatest weakness.

[@drowningtoast3911]

This reminded me that the outcome of JOJO part 3's final battle was reached by similar means, a very tactical thinking protagonist pushing their limits versus a seemingly unstoppable enemy, who knows or thinks they have an overwhelming advantage. Gotta remember good fights are equally mental as well as physical when you get mad at fights like this because in both cases, all it took for both vader, and DIO, was to take it seriously in the first place.

[@hullubaloo100]

Nothing made under Disney era should be taken seriously

[@haplessjim6504]

I just see it as his cybernetics were damaged in the fight so he stumbles.

[@chocolate_sauerkraut]

There is a comic story of Vader inviting Grand Moff Tarkin to find all the best hunters and assassins to try to hunt and kill him. He chops down every single assassin and eventually finds Tarkin. Tarkin using nothing but his wit and knowledge of Vader's overconfidence, actually lured Vader to a point where he would be struck by an almost certainly fatal lightning strike. Vader was so heavily damaged, burnt and stumbling but still came out on top and sent a message of fear to Tarkin. Vader has been nearly taken out due to his biggest weakness of overconfidence many times. This fight with Cere made sense, and was honestly more believable than the events in the comic.