Exploring a Terrible Windows CE Netbook

Thanks to Case for letting me borrow this!
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/ michaelmjd
Logo-slapped laptops are back! Today we're exploring a delightfully terrible Windows CE "netbook" from sometime in the early 2010s. And it's got the name of a light bulb manufacturer on it... so it has to be good, right?
Tim Hortons Computer: • The Tim Hortons Computer
Windows CE Applications: archive.org/details/winCE6soft
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro & Overview
02:47 - Unboxing
06:57 - Initial Exploration
08:16 - Internet Explorer
10:40 - An old KZbin app
13:30 - The Photo Viewer
16:24 - Office programs & utilities
19:35 - Included games
22:05 - Modern KZbin & WarpStream
24:21 - Display settings
26:27 - Running some old PC games
32:08 - Running some console emulators
37:38 - Outro
● Gear I use to make these videos: www.kit.co/mjd
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Amazon: www.amazon.com/?tag=teammjd-20
● Music/Credits:
Background Music:
"By the Fireplace", "A Night Alone", and "Brighton Lights" from the KZbin Audio Library
"Mining by Moonlight", "Airport Lounge", "George Street Shuffle", "Acid Jazz", and "Spy Groove" by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com
Outro Music: Silent Partner - Bet On It
Amazon Affiliate Notice: I am a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. All Amazon links that I provide will use my affiliate code with Amazon.
Some materials in this video are used under Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976, which allows "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, commenting, news reporting, teaching, and research.
#MichaelMJD #WindowsCE #Netbook

[@WinXP_SP1]

I like how this laptop was packaged.

[@Enderman1462]

Yeah it's packaged nicely

[@noctis-nhs]

Also the funniest thing that makes the laptop like a toy for kids

[@rizzing_mogger]

Its made from china

[@weegeenumberone2]

Packaged like an idiot!

[@Kmart2K]

that's not a laptop, its a mud made computer

[@TheDreamcastLover]

Fun Fact: The Sega Dreamcast has an image printed on the side of the console saying “Compatible with Windows CE”

[@JasperFoxo]

im pretty sure mjd has the web browser that runs on windows ce iirc

[@TheDreamcastLover]

@@JasperFoxo Ye I do to but I couldn’t get the browser to work

[@wertywerrtyson5529]

You have the wrong colour on the Sega swirl. Just kidding I know it was only blue here in Europe.

[@xbrun3356]

Has anybody tried getting a full fledged windows or linux distro on an Dreamcast

[@TheDreamcastLover]

@@wertywerrtyson5529 Ye I was always confused why they changed it for Europe

[@vwestlife]

So I guess 13 years is how long it takes something to go from cheap new junk to nostalgic retro junk.

[@tonyb586]

"This product is not a computer." I wonder if they were trying to avoid some specific tax with that, arguing that it is not technically a computer.

[@xiphoidPXCB]

i wonder........

[@DTS__]

@@xiphoidPXCB i too wonder........

[@Ian99_]

It's like the reverse of Sony arguing the PS2 was a computer to avoid taxes on game consoles

[@LesKing72]

Probably trying to make sure no one who thought this was a computer and not manufactured e-waste could sue for false advertisement

[@LBJshowedmehisJ]

That's a funny theory. It kind of reminds me of that one time Sony shipped a Basic interpreter disk with their PS2s in Europe in an attempt to avoid tariffs on game consoles that existed there at the time

[@bp13]

I'm ready for "Installing X on the terrible windows CE laptop and everything goes wrong" 😂

[@higihups]

Why would you want to install Twitter on that?

[@OptiplexAircraft]

@@higihups Maybe they meant Mac OS X.

[@sihamhamda47]

@@OptiplexAircraft or XUbuntu

[@johang727]

​@OptiplexAircraft X doesn't mean anything in this situation. Just a placeholder basically. "Installing Windows 7 on the terrible windows CE laptop..." "Installing Ubuntu on the terrible windows CE laptop..." Etc. Etc

[@OptiplexAircraft]

@@johang727 Aha, got it. But I tend to seem that Mac OS never tends to work. (Even if nothing actually does)

[@ciach0_]

I definitely want to see a video on the installation of other OS's on this thing!

[@afan64]

Me too

[@firstsurname9893]

There's a whole pack of different firmwares, including WinCE, Debian & Android, for this thing on the Internet Archive named "Windows CE Netbook Firmware Collection", uploaded by RaduTek.

[@SpeedHunter_9]

Yes, I wanna see how it will perform with Linux.

[@Ikeaboi]

If it will run windows XP, it can run everything

[@B3NH3]

Same windows 95 may work well

[@icukeosu]

12:30 - if i remember correctly you could actually stream KZbin videos from any regular media player. I actually did this on my Nokia E66 with RealPlayer. That KZbin app is probably just used some old API to search videos and stream them with WMP.

[@rigen97]

apparently KZbin still serve plain old h264 mp4 stream if asked so unless you time travel too close to Jesus' birth there's fair chance the device could technically play it

[@Jesse78]

I think you still can. Put a KZbin video URL into VLC and it'll play it

[@DanTDMJace]

@@Jesse78that doesnt work for me

[@sihamhamda47]

@@rigen97 Only works if it's in supported browser. Yes it supports very old h264 codec but the old basic early youtube HTML has long been deprecated, so why it only shows "your browser is no longer supported" and can't go any further. Even if he could install a supported browser to that laptop, it still only has very slim chance to get youtube working as intended as the CPU itself is too weak, even weaker than Intel Atom

[@leonidas14775]

@@Jesse78 I think that used to be possible, you could even download videos with VLC that way.

[@vertujoe2886]

The titile of Chinese song means ”Chen Xu, Your Bro (myself) is only a legend.mp3“

[@ElfinaAshfield]

...which is an old OLD meme song (around 2010 IIRC). The manifacturer is probably just some random factory in Shenzhen and decided to put some random meme song and picture to test their device (the display / speaker / program is functioning etc), and don't bother to remove because no one really cared.

[@gluttonousmaximus9048]

@@ElfinaAshfield Wven weirder, they likely removed the mp3 file but didn't clear the playlist

[@Akajakex]

It’s so frustrating to see some completely foreign meme these times when everything is globalised. Makes me want to dive to Chinese memes though 💀

[@FatherMcKenzie66]

That’s cool!

[@ElfinaAshfield]

@@gluttonousmaximus9048 Probably the media player just kept what's been played last time.

[@nushnume]

I had an old car GPS that used to run Windows CE.....i also still see Windows CE running on those price checking things at the supermarket

[@bluespartan076]

ye so those price checking guns are essentially purpose built Windows Mobile PDA devices (like the PocketPC PDAs from the 2000s). Really just an easy way to deploy many single purpose devices with a really locked down OS that cant be changed easily or at all (if its built into a eeprom or firmware chip) you can load linux though from an external boot device (only tried this on a Neoware thin client WCE device to not much success but it apparently can run Tinycore)

[@kristianperryadams]

Yeah there was a community of GPS modders I stumbled across about a decade ago, there was a ton of apps and mortscripts for these devices, I didn't delve much past loading Doom, TCPMP(Tiny core pocket media player) and WinCEBoy

[@hectormiguelperezgomez6612]

Here in Mexico we have a supermarket chain that used to have price checkers made by NCR that were running Windows 2000, even the cash registers of the nearest store to me were running Windows 2000, then they changed their OS to XP, then to 7 and now they use Windows 10, it was quite interesting that they keep using a really old Windows version in their systems.

[@hectormiguelperezgomez6612]

I also have seen price checkers mainly of the Zebra brand that now run Android. They are basically an Android device, like your phone but without phone capabilities.

[@louism771]

There also are a few sewing maschines (the fancy ones with embroider units) from Bernina sold in the mid 2000s that featured Windows CE and a touchscreen interface.

[@AnotherFreakingDude]

Imagine pulling one of these out of your backpack at Defcon, running Gentoo.

[@Kayraman256]

michealsoft binbows

[@Graylord88]

Ok, there's something so weird and alternate reality feeling about seeing a full laptop being packaged in a blister pack.

[@yourlocalpensulilvanian]

fun fact: back in the late 90s sylvania made some televisions and vcrs, however weren’t very popular. i own one of those tvs and vcrs.

[@Sunkery_CD]

They also made CD players, because I have one of them from a while back.

[@darsparx]

Yea we used to own some of them too and they were very decent for what they were. But that was in the final days of tube tvs since it was like 1998-2005 when we got it. Heavy af but I liked them 🤣

[@AlanXenos]

Not sure about the 90s ones, but the late-tube era Sylvania sets (2001/2 and later) were brand slap-on jobs, and were manufactured by Funai - who also produced identical models under the Magnavox and Emerson brand.

[@yourlocalpensulilvanian]

@@AlanXenos emerson also did the same, they just slapped their logo on funai vcr/dvd combos

[@tonycrabtree3416]

Sylvania made electronics all throughout its history. It became GTE and is now Verizon.

[@AB-Prince]

I think all of the warnings and disclaimers are more to do with the licencing around windows embedded, spesifically embedded is a slimmed down version of windows, mainly intended to run on hardware that is intended for only one spesific application. like a kiosk, digital signage, or a machine controller. all of the disclaimer jargon, to me, screams 'we are using windows embedded exclusively in the way as exactly worded in the licencing agreement'

[@AB-Prince]

presumably even the use of the name 'smart book' is to seperate the device from being classified as being a proper computer.

[@user-cr4sc1ht9t]

It's crude way of saying "It's Windows! *but not actually" to avoid getting lawsuits

[@solenoids3]

Windows CE actually has very little overlap with Windows at all, since it doesn't use Windows NT. But yea, your theory is probably correct. CE in these late stages was mainly meant for full-screen applications, like in-car entertainment systems or kiosks. The bonkers UI was fine as long as it could run the vendor's in-house GUI and set it to fullscreen mode, as well as support the dying line of Windows mobile devices before Microsoft could come up with something better. The final major release of Windows CE in 2013 actually dropped most of the GUI. All that was left was something reminiscent of the Weston desktop on linux, which was originally intended to demonstrate that Linux could work for... in-car entertainment systems and kiosks.

[@user-cr4sc1ht9t]

@@solenoids3 At least MS committing to a weird idea that everyone is going to love getting slapped in face and then proceeding to hand everything to Android was hilarious

[@slightlyevolved]

Windows Embedded and Windows Embedded *Compact* are two VERY different things. Compact has hardly anything at all shared with x86 Windows. Windows Embedded however (which long predates this version of CE) is a stripped down Windows, as you say. But that's not this. As usual, terrible naming from Microsoft. Must have been the same guy that named the Xbox line....

[@BlakeHelms]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a computer in a “blister pack”

[@aga_100kr]

You should try the Portuguese educational laptop Magalhães, the terrible laptop the Portuguese government gave to a lot of childs (me included) that bankrupted this small country. It has dual boot between win xp and a portuguese linux distro, Caixa mágica

[@SummonerArthur]

Nothing beats the Brazilian positivo mobo s7, it had a genormous dual bezel, comic sans keyboard, a weird ass linux distro running on an SD card (which breaks if you try to run and update it nowadays)... Beautiful thing!

[@aga_100kr]

@@SummonerArthur opa, that is a true nugget! your right

[@PotatoPCGamerz]

Imagine trapping a laptop in the worst type of packaging: Clamshell

[@xgui4-studios]

every laptop use the clamshell design ... it is not a laptop if it is not a clamshell

[@rexperverziff]

Clamshell in clamshell ​@@xgui4-studios

[@PotatoPCGamerz]

@@xgui4-studios I meant the packaging. The clamshell design is fine, the clamshell packaging is what makes me die inside.

[@Pan_Fafik]

If I'm not mistaken, the keyboard in this thing comes from the cheapest tablet keyboards. I once had a "case" with such a keyboard. It was connected to a very thin micro USB. The "Zzz" function key worked like power button (I could force it to turn off just like real button). Btw it brakes two month after purchase.

[@georgemoodier]

that doom gameplay felt like cruelty squad but on even more drugs

[@ssharma5]

CRUELTY SQUAD MENTIONED

[@loleq2137]

this is just like Gorbino's Quest of Life

[@singeslayer8367]

It's that packaging that no-one likes - a very dank man

[@afan64]

Better bust out the Famous Toledo's!

[@shockwave3318]

I enjoy the fact that almost every window seemingly has a different theme.

[@jaredwright5917]

If you leave one of these running Solitaire for long enough (months), it somehow runs out of RAM and becomes completely unusable until it's rebooted.

[@greenbassboosts8872]

The nature of Microsoft... Various issues that compound and worsen with time

[@LokolcThe]

14:21 What an unexpected way to find Macross. Never thought I would see that here on this channel.

[@JeffreyPiatt]

Most CE builds dont include stolen Anime art mixed with the default Microsoft Pictures.

[@vadnegru]

The thing about warranty void if loaded with other OS. Unofficially most computer retailers in Ukraine require you to bring back the laptop to a state you bought it. My friend almost got return rejected because of Windows installed on a FreeDOS device. Because it was exhibition unit, he talked them out to return as is.

[@slightlyevolved]

Why would you NOT have a return that requires it to be in the same state? I buy buy a bag of oranges and try to return it after swapping them to apples I would expect to be rejected. Now, if you meant warranty repair, that's different.

[@AveCortes]

Incredible how this tiny shity laptop has more ports that the newest high top devices.

[@n646n]

We simply don't need many ports now. Things that needed different ports can now all be done through USB-C.

[@LotoTheHero]

"Not a computer" In the manual it says "setting up your computer" though... hmm... 🤔

[@ElectricoGamez]

Sylvania, it's a computer. Stop denying it.

[@rigues]

That software load is CRIMINAL. Whoever "designed" this thing couldn't care less about the consumer.

[@Odd-Bike]

30:56 here comes LGR in his duke nukem voice saying "Hmm, I feel a bit sluggish as of right now."

[@Azeria]

it has an ISO \| _and_ an ANSI \| for why…?

[@CuriouserArchive]

The Amazon redirect probably originally went to an affiliate link, so they get a very small cut of anything you purchased when you accessed it through that desktop shortcut. And I'm guessing they used the redirect so they could change the link if necessary.

[@minilathemayhem]

I remember seeing these things when I worked at a Kmart back between 2008-2013. I am 100% certain I never saw anyone ever buy one lol

[@gentuxable]

9:37 I'm almost certain this is because the UI was optimized for smartphones where it would open an on-screen keyboard when you focus a textbox and it would make sense to make it that big because there's not much room left on screen.

[@gentuxable]

23:23 I think I really am onto something

[@ConStormENT]

Fun fact: you could run android on this tiny thing although the highest I have been able to go is android 2.2

[@RichardG867]

The Jawbreaker / Bubble Breaker game came with Windows Mobile phones. Judging by the glitchy about screen, it's just running the Windows Mobile executable. My WM6 phone could start some apps designed for CE, but without a touchscreen they couldn't do much.

[@GYTCommnts]

I would love an entire episode of that "CE software collection" in a WinCE device, and trying other OSes on this one. If you are not allowed to entirely install other OS, if possible, you could try running them from the USB (Linux options at least). I think a version of Puppy Linux could work?

[@greenbassboosts8872]

I love puppy Linux but I'm not sure modern pup would run well on this hardware.... I'm not sure anything modern would run very well. I'm thinking of trying to load Debian or Gentoo or something on the one I have

[@lucsirotouka]

Interesting, 11:20 the song name is in Chinese, reading "哥只是个传说" (I'm just a legend) sang by 陈旭 (Chen Xu). What kind of "smartbook" is this preloaded with a Chinese pop song?

[@BURGERGAMERGAMING]

I don’t why but is kinda funny how the KZbin auto-translate gets the translating wrong

[@afan64]

Most likely it's from China and they just left it on there.

[@belstar1128]

looks like they were having fun at the factory

[@Mercenary1996]

Bro peeling that film actually looked like it was peeling the screen I was actually about to get pissed 😅

[@Dmrketao]

The "stupid book" was packaged like a toothbrush

[@splatsmodofficial]

3:56 We gotta take a look at... The charger! *throws the charger on the table* There's the charger.

[@gedeonclavet2946]

😂😂😂😂

[@louism771]

The jankiness of Windows CE / Embedded Compact 7 surprises me again and again. Yeah these cheap Sylvania devices are trash now and were trash back then but it's the awful OS that blows my mind. It always reminds me of some kind of old bootleg Windows linux distro or a Windows-style theme pack for phones in the early 2000s.

[@SillyGoober___]

i love this exploring series

[@shadzz06]

Windows guy is back at it again! keep up the good work ^^

[@ThePrimaFacie]

the click to zoom feature is I think the smartest part. Old people are gonna buy this cause they don't know what from what and now they can actually see what they are typing. Its great . Thanks for the vids

[@user-vp3wd6zx9i]

😅 31:48

[@bubbles581]

In voice of the Terminator: "its not a computuh"

[@nightcorefusion3884]

The same visual appeal and formfactor as a portable DVD player with... LESS functionality. That's genuinely impressive.

[@leonidas14775]

For the right price, I think there's fun to be had with this thing.

[@aurathedraak7909]

This should be a series

[@Knight00001]

16:56 I went on the website listed in that about window, and surprisingly that "nPOP" mail viewer was last updated in 2023, it's up to version 1.2.6, and it's an open source freeware program !

[@zealotelite395]

Nice day for an MJD video!

[@_helmi]

Michael, we need a dedicated video featuring the ENTIRE content of that CE softwares folder. Yes, please and thank you.

[@friedacorns]

17:13 - That's What She Said I couldn't help myself.

[@mattparker9726]

6:24 HEY! Chunky netbooks need love too!

[@matticolo]

28:50 “the framerate is not super great”, that was absolutely the last think that popped into my head 😂

[@techdistractions]

Looks like the OEM got the absolute cheapest windows mobile license SKU then scraped the internet to find 3rd party replacements for apps that are in the more expensive Windows Mobile version. I’ve seen this edition on embedded industrial devices

[@axpuser671]

How can a laptop be worse then the Tim Hortons laptop?

[@Mimikyu_Lov3r]

9:20 It probably does that because it knows how small the screen is and it wants to show you just how horrible it actually is 😂

[@Takoto]

14:19 Macross jumpscare - The image before at 14:16 looks extremely familiar, I think it was a really commonly shared piece of fanart. Will see if I can find a source.

[@davinp]

These plastics were impossible to open without destroying them

[@Mizai]

that's the point so you dont return

[@Z64bit]

I think GE is more famous for their light bulbs. Sylvania is famous for those old TVs with the fake wood on the side and VCRs

[@macintosh4664]

No I think GE is famous for their kitchen supplies

[@eDoc2020]

They were both large old-school brands. Sylvania made tubes, light bulbs, and consumer electronics while GE made those as well as everything else electrical.

[@YuNherd]

installing linux with the lightest desktop manager is a good follow up

[@williamcollinson7245]

If anyone was wondering, the text document's name translated to "New Text Document (2)"

[@the-shork]

I happen to have the German version of this "netbook", the SD slot is supposed to eject the card when you push it in, it's not like a macbook

[@kenzie4217]

Happy canada day to you to man. As a canadian i actually kinda forgot it was even canada day, so glad you remembered

[@KioAMVs]

The Macross/Robotech background on a SEALED product? That's insane.

[@bryo4321]

4:36 “Setting up your computer” … but I thought it wasn’t a computer? Lol

[@rollingtroll]

I feel like this thing should run better than a 386 honestly. I wonder if you could do a clean install

[@SVNMasterTech]

cool video michael

[@himbourbanist]

the idea of a KZbin app that uses an API to fetch site data is kind of cool and interesting. Nowadays that's really silly since we just do like, everything in browser or with a first party application, but for the target demo of a system like this, it's kind of a cool way to centralize sites like youtube to an app you just click on the desktop.

[@bitelaserkhalif]

This is still done with cheap dvb t2 stb that has KZbin and tiktok capability

[@deeiks12]

lol, the image viewer program.

[@lower_case_t]

I have a similar netbook, brand name Jay-Tech. It's based on VIA's WM8505 SoC and it was my first Arm-based computer ever, even before the Raspberry Pi became available. I actually used it a lot as a pocket-sized Typewriter (smaller that Asus' first eeePC) and as mp3 player. There's a Debian hack for these WM8505-based machines that is maintained to this day. The WM8505 is a 300MHz Arm 5 SoC, so don't expect a gaming machine or a media center. But it ran the LXDE desktop and Abiword, so I was quite happy with it. Also, in 2010, lightweight browsers like Dillo were still quite usable. Oh, and Doom runs pretty well on this little gem on Linux.

[@TheiTunesFanboy]

I imagine that this smartbook included so much third-party software was so that way users wouldn’t associate it with Windows CE’s bad reputation.

[@philtkaswahl2124]

I'm still oddly happy "Tim Horton's netbook" is a combination of words that exists in reality.

[@InsanityPrevails]

I mean... At that point Doom wasn't even running, it was just walking 💀

[@CHICKEN_sandwich_from_ohio]

Mjd never fails to amaze me

[@RedVRCC]

You can identify piss poor electronics by noticing they are in that cheap ass plastic packaging rather than a proper box. Some exceptions do exist, like calculators but if you see a laptop, phone, etc in that kind of packaging and especially in a store not centered around tech it's probably gonna be shit. The sad thing is that it has more USB ports on it than my laptop that cost me almost $1000 when it was new.

[@leonidas14775]

Cheap electronics skimp on some things like build quality, while luxury electronics omit other obvious features

[@CommanderMouse72]

It’s got more USB than my 15” MacBook Pro

[@Crissley10]

15:55 Neat lighthouse dude! 10/10!

[@Gavinkhan777]

Hey, I’m asking so you know when the beginning of the video of you still have this with you or could you like try to load a separate OS on it like chrome os or windows or Linux thanks a lot

[@rokyo401]

I love the blue Pacman as the icon for IE!

[@FatherMcKenzie66]

Hey Michael, cool video! Could you share those anime pictures you found on this computer? I’d like to use them as wallpapers

[@loleq2137]

This is my jam!

[@VeryRandomStuff361]

legendary case

[@AlexN0]

That airbubbly screen film is a pixel perfect actual screenshot of the desktop you're booting into, with a slight shift in the panel from the bottom right so you have something to grab onto, and for some reason I find it amusing

[@danagoyette7932]

I'm curious if these devices have anything like Device Manager in Windows. Is there a Windows CE version of something like hwinfo or cpu-z?

[@Nooptema]

This honestly looks like a fun device to try and mod

[@TheRealKidRed_]

Still has a bigger battery then the Rabbit R1 lol.

[@ebridgewater]

This runs 7.0 (2011). The latest version was 8.0 (2013). Any chance of a video with a clean version of that running on this device?

[@drkdncr]

Kind of reminds me of the Casio Cassiopeia Palmtop with Windows CE. My car Sat Nav system from 2008 runs Windows CE 5.0 on a DVD-ROM! ❤

[@davidshepherd265]

I suspect the big drop down boxes and text and stuff might be due to them potentially marketing this at older people who just needed a device to keep in touch with the grandkids via email, or look up stuff while on holiday. I was doing tech support for older people at around the time this would’ve been sold and while it’s certainly not something I would have recommended, I can see them seeing it on display in the chemist or supermarket or wherever and deciding to pick it up.

[@ManuelSLaraBisch]

The text box zoom in IE reminded me of the Dell PDA running Windows Mobile 2003 I used to have. I think it behaved the same way. My memory is a bit foggy, but I do remember it also came with the same jawbreaker game.

[@beyond.the.cosmosx]

So many uploads! I like it!

[@superbros64deluxe]

9:02 ironic you bring up the tim hortons laptop during Canada day

[@PhobosTK]

Maaaan, I remember "repairing" a bunch of these on my first job... A beaten up compaq ipaq looks and feels like a supercomputer in comparison.

[@maclaren93]

Now im wondering if you can install another os. Maybe w98?

[@mariosdent-lu9tc]

that screen is like 100x100 edit after one minute:that thing looks like a toy not a pc(portable computer)

[@belstar1128]

its 480p once upon a time that was a good resolution but even in 2011 that was stone age for a laptop

[@galaxyzeinz]

that file in the MP3 mentioned a name “Chen-Xu” brother is a legend, wonder that that’s all about

[@just-yellow]

that photoviewer software and the weird included images almost broke my brain

[@belstar1128]

i like it it gives it some personality

[@kim_balck01]

오늘도 재미있는 영상 잘 보고 갑니다.

[@EmanuelCampos]

where did the Sylvannia truck overturn and a whole lot of this things flooded? I want one!

[@luis-ranma]

Amazing manual ♥

[@matthewwilde5222]

I've been trying to get one of these old CE netbooks, to experience some nostalgia from my childhood 😅