Exploring Brain Evolution and Neanderthal Autism Relations | Interview with Dr. Emily Casanova

[@jonmars9559]

I probably shouldn't comment on this topic before I finish watching the entire video but being autistic myself and finding interest in this topic for so long, I will jump the gun. I had long considered a Neanderthal contribution as a possible link to autism in modern populations but perhaps there is as much a closer-to-home kind of explanation as well, at least for high functioning autism? I find it interesting that much of what identifies autism in modern populations has to do with what would be considered normal social capacities. For many of us with autism, we simply don't understand social and relationship norms expected in today's societies and that often brings about traumas and disturbances that escalate our difficulties throughout life. But today's societal norms are quite recent in evolutionary terms. There are other traits of autism that may have been beneficial in earlier times, times of hunting and gathering, traits that were advantageous? For example, I do have strong problem solving skills within practical settings. Don't ask me to fill out a form at a doctors office but I'm a tool maker, I'm a builder. I work with my hands. I image things in my mind's eye in 3 dimensions and have strong intuitive understanding of how things go together. I'm excellent in working out procedures in which to manage certain kinds of tasks. I recognize patterns in nature and can see immediately when something is out of place. I tend to exist in a state of hypervigilance that allows me a good understanding of dangers in my surroundings. These are all good survival traits in the wild. Things changed drastically as humans began living close together in sedentary lifestyles after the agricultural revolution. That was a massive sociological event in human development taking place only a mere 10,000 years ago. After agriculture, new skills and capacities had reproductive advantages. Working and living in close quarters with other people meant you benefitted from social aptitudes and communication styles. People became very specialized in their working skillsets leading to more linear, compartmentalized cognitive learning strategies. Not everybody is going to thrive within these types of social change. Gene drift within a given population is going to favor those with neurological traits allowing them to work closely in social circumstances and those traits become "typical" over time. Other neurological traits, pathways and structures within the brain became a disadvantage within these new social constructs. These are just some thoughts that come to mind. I know there are many consideration to take into account on this fascinating topic.

[@DorchesterMom]

This is so wild. Basically, sapiens and Neanderthals mixed it up, creating all kind of new polymorphisms in their funky little love children, some of those being deleterious, some beneficial, and now we (who are said product) are sorting ourselves out over the ensuing generations. I read elsewhere recently that, as the generations roll out, very gradually the non-beneficial DNA gets selected against. So SO WILD. I freaking love it. As for populations, it actually gives me a bit further understanding and empathy for other people in general, but particularly in regards to our past division; if the collective WE are walking around at this very moment with all these very new combinations, then we really need to give each other more grace. That all said, also having C-PTSD and developmental trauma I cannot stress how hard it is for some of us to get to that healing place. During this mixed up time of mixing in we simply need more mental health supports and an overall heightened sense of empathy. - 297 Neanderthal markers on 23andme + inattentive ADHD. It makes me just really damn excited to be a neurodiverse hybrid loving right here and now in 2024. Can someone plz. Give the name of the paper? I want to go read it.

[@DorchesterMom]

It’s thought that the Neanderthal tendency to live in smaller groups in comparison to Sapiens lines up with traits like anxiety and depression. At one point being super anxious was an evolutionary benefit (even though it makes you feel miserable) that kept us safer and so alive longer. Can you imagine the harshness of the world they loved in during the Pleistocene? It all makes so much sense now. Neurodivergents are not defective, we simply carry ancient traits that once kept Neanderthals going for what, 200k years plus? They died out mainly because those loner habits pushed them into interbreeding more as time went on. Diversity, an explosion of new combinations, refreshes humanity’s genetic code,while simultaneously throws us all gurveballs.

[@kathybrem880]

Makes alot of sense to me.

[@anemonine]

00:00:00: 🦠 Intro: Dr. Emily Casanova // Assistant prof. Neuroscience @ Loyola Studied autism for 20 years, focusing on genetics and paleogenomics, also focuses on EDS (connective tissue disorder) Passion: paleogenomics Recent paper about neanderthals No increase of neanderthal genetics in autistic individuals Found that people on the autism spectrum are more likely to have **rare** neanderthal variants (compared to control populations having less rare neanderthal variants) 00:7:27 🦠If these traits caused these behaviors in modern humans, what functions could they have served neanderthals? We know that due to neanderthal’s genetic bottleneck/low general population, they are more likely to be carriers of recessive diseases. You can’t mess up one developmental gene without messing up another because they are often linked with each other. As H. Sapien and neanderthal reproduced, the genes are re-linking, but they are not linking correctly. Not so much what is it doing in the neanderthal, but what is it doing in the context of the H. Sapien genome (now that it is there)? Let’s leave behind the “one gene, one effect” dogma. Seth: When you are doing research, you are not trying to find a cure. There are bad actors in every field, but the goal of this research is to understand the evolutionary history of all of us. Dr. Casanova: Wonders if the timing of the hybridization of our species was a stimulus for new changes. Context changes and there is a re-adaptation. Sometimes, there are emergent properties. Strong relationships with the genetics of autism and the genetics of human intelligence. As part of the broader human story, the series of hybridization events was a stimulus in the species. Pre hybrid H. Sapien DNA would be very useful to study. 40kya~ (timing of hybridization events) 00:26:18 🦠What do you want to look for next, or how will this impact your research going forward? This study only looked at a small part of the genome, some of the most tightly conserved. Future: Looking at other pieces of the genome & the Denisovan genome. Would like to collaborate with neuroimaging researchers! The neanderthal is the underdog. Recalibrate the view of them as caveman into our cousins/ancestors/ancient relatives. “They don’t need the bad PR, they are dead!” 00:33:20 🦠How did this research start? By training I am a neuroscientist. When you study autism, you get to study the whole human condition. In the last 5-6 years, I became interested in the ancient evolution of autism related genes. In a recent paper, I found that many major effect genes were around the time of the Cambrian explosion in the vertebrate lineage. (major effect genes meaning quite likely to develop autism) Fast forward 500my and Dr. Casanova has been very interested in hybridization events Dr. Casanova notes that the idea of autism and genes can be concerning for some with relation to eugenics. She also notes that there has been about a 30% decrease in down syndrome births since the gene was detectable during pregnancy. Autism is not as simple genetically as down syndrome, however. 00:43:02 🦠Right now it is popular to get your DNA tested, but can be a double-edged sword. Some of the largest impacts in our study were found on Black Americans. Compared to the 3 subsets, they have the most H. Sapien background, as they have only indirectly mixed with neanderthal. This interlinks with the hybridization-mismatch theory, as they have less neanderthal DNA, so a larger mismatch. Note here that Black Americans had a more recent influx of neanderthal DNA due to the Transatlantic Slave Trade ~ more recently admixed. 00:47:24 🦠Everyone has neanderthal DNA, many people have Denisovan DNA, and there is also currently unknown ghost DNA lurking to be found. 00:52:02 🦠Bigger picture takeaway: Many diseases and ailments, including neurodevelopmental conditions, may be related to neanderthal DNA/other ghost DNAs. 00:52:56 🦠 “I hope that more people get interested in this general area of research.” Genetics is super complicated, but the neanderthal stuff actually makes it less complicated as it can be a great test-case (as we know when and where). There is a difference between an ethnicity and what we find in the genome. Up to 1/4th of Black Americans would fall under the European genome (through genetics alone). This is important for genetics and medicine, for example breast cancer medications. Dr. Casanova is looking for ways to more reliably put people into categories by ethnicity. Goal is to reduce noise in data to not simply measure population differences, but find something clinically significant. 00:56:12 🦠Seth: “People think that science is a search for the truth, but it is really a search for accuracy.” Dr. Casanova: This is a very interesting piece of our story. Background of the idea, relationship between neanderthal and autism. In 2001, a person named Lief published this as an idea. Only in 2010 did people realize the genetics of the interbreeding between neanderthal and H. Sapiens. On science theory: “Never be so wetted to a theory that you find divorce unthinkable”

[@anemonine]

apologies if any errors. thanks for the talk and congrats on the baby!

[@lilykatmoon4508]

Omg! This is -hands down-the most fascinating interview I’ve seen in a long time! I have my BA in anthropology and I focused on human evolution. I have a passion for learning about paleo anthropology, and history in general. It’s one of my special interests. I’m also fascinated by the redemption of the Neanderthal reputation as some dumb brute. As an individual on the spectrum, I am intensely intrigued in how the hybridization of Neanderthals and Homo sapiens may have affected autistic traits. I’m tickled by the idea that my autistic traits tie me to my nameless Neanderthal ancestors. I will eagerly follow any further developments on this subject. This is the first video I’ve seen on this channel, but I’m an instant subscriber! ❤

[@mikahbee]

I would really like if more researchers would just once come at the topic of autism with view to its evolutinary benefits, rather than downsides or that it's a deficiency. Exceptional senses would mean super tasters and smellers could perhaps detect food or water that was unsafe. Light sleepers/nocturnal folks with heightened hearing would make excellent nightwatch guards. Hyperfixations and pattern recognition could identify stars, directions, seasonal changes, animal paths for hunting. On the topic of animals, nonverbal communication and very common affinity with animals could have aided in animal domestication. You get my point, I hope.

[@oxymorons9895]

Thank you both! As someone on the spectrum myself, this was so interesting! I would love to hear more about it!

[@buttercxpdraws8101]

This emerging research is so interesting! I have been proposing a link between autism, evolution and Neanderthal genome for ages - it seemed obvious to me and shows the importance of neurodiversity and why it must be understood as valuable in our population today - I look forward to some actual research proving me right lol ✌️💕🌻

[@batintheattic7293]

What I'm curious about: Did Neanderthals have traits that made them valuable to the migrating northwards Homo-Sapiens - apart from the obvious familiarity with the environment? Were those traits related to heightened awareness - for instance, was the co-opted Neanderthal excellent at predicting approaching weather fronts or knowing which direction the large herbivores were in despite there being a lot of trees in the way? We're they really good at figuring out which plants were toxic? Could they swiftly draw comparisons between one plant and another without having to actually test them out? Could they make links between seemingly disparate patches of information that the Homo Sapiens (who valued status and could persuade the others to just give the least popular tribe member some of those berries to see what would happen) couldn't and, therefore, enhanced the longevity of all around them? More static. More sensitive to change. A very different way of interpreting their surroundings. And, eventually, they're in the middle ages and those things that made them prized are now what gets them burned at the stake - but enough of them were able to pass their genes on so they made it through despite being largely unequipped for knowing how to present to the church in order to be acceptable. Seriously injurious levels of pathological demand avoidance and just outright otherworldliness.

[@buttercxpdraws8101]

@@batintheattic7293 It’s like you’re reading my mind!

[@MossyMozart]

@@buttercxpdraws8101 - It must be because of the influence of the Neanderthal DNA!

[@bensabelhaus7288]

Check out Dr Alyson Moutris work on childhood autism and remnant DNA research. That was the beginning of my rabbit hole

[@neclark08]

...would you expand upon your post? What triggered your first interest in/suspicions about the interrelationships amongst autism, evolution & the Neanderthal genome ?

[@MaryKDayPetrano]

Denisovans had autism genes. Also, autism genes go back to the fusion of chromosome 2. When was that ? Homo Erectus ? Homo Ergaster ? If you really dig into it, you can see that the Ethiopian highlands Homo Erectus and the lowlands Lake Turkana Homo Ergaster were already speciating before Homo Erectus left Africa. The concensus now is Homo Ergaster didn't have language while Homo Erectus did. So, if Autism is atavistic and there is ILS going on, it would go a long way to explain the vast range if language abilties in Autism.

[@stiofanmacamhalghaidhau765]

um... there are no 'autism genes'

[@MossyMozart]

Have you published your findings, yet? Maybe you could collaborate with Dr Casanova.

[@sunnysidefriendakdk2829]

Im on the spectrum and glad i watched the whole video, lots of interesting ideas/information. I remember being interested in the idea of autism being connected to Neanderthal heritage years ago but the explanation seemed off at the time because of the idea that African population supposedly was without neanderthal heritage. Its very cool to see science work past old ideas. Im very curios to see where this leads with more in depth studies

[@mnelson9057]

This is so interesting, thank Seth, thank you Dr. Cassnova🎉

[@jazzerat]

Brilliantly fascinating! That hour FLEW by! I want more!

[@haliknipe6108]

You're doing such amazing work! Science communication is so limited in paleoanth and you're nailing it, thank you!

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Glad you think so!

[@alexandrabryden6143]

Very interesting. My family tree, traced to 1040, have lived in the west Scotland since then. My DNA from 123&me shows 99% north British. A number of family and relatives have adhd, I am getting a diagnosis for asd. I have thought that I would have loved to be a pict, ( I think they may have been a high degree of Neanderthals in them) but before then I think what we're finding about Neanderthals is very interesting, I think they were more creative and peaceful hominads than humans. It's a fascinating topic.

[@j.l.emerson592]

What I find fascinating is that we, modern humans, try to 'blame' deleterious conditions on ancestors that we consider to be inferior to us. I have seen articles where researchers have tried to say that schizophrenia, bipolar disorder & various other mental health conditions are a result of modern humans interbreeding with Neanderthals & possibly other ancient ancestors. We rarely see papers/articles that say our ancestors gave us helpful genes. The few that I have seen were in reference to high altitude survival & possibly some immunity or disease resistance.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Because all of our genes are from our ancestors? So it goes without saying....

[@j.l.emerson592]

@worldofpaleoanthropology Yeah, but they're not saying that a deleterious condition is coming from the "last common ancestor". They're saying, specifically, Neanderthal or Denisovan or unknown archaic, inferring that the condition is introduced during a much later admixture event & therefore not ancestral.

[@WarAndFame]

You know that she explained this right? It’s not that the Neanderthals had bad genes. But that they were a different species. In other words if a Neanderthal had 2 percent human DNA, maybe they would have autism, and the purebred Neanderthal wouldn’t. It’s a compatibility issue

[@j.l.emerson592]

@@WarAndFame Yes, I heard her explanation. That doesn't mean that it is correct. It means that it is a hypothesis & needs to be proven. (e.g. falsified)

[@smokedbeefandcheese4144]

To be fair you also have to think about these scientists and handle like 50 years ago they were still doing eugenics in college I mean there are still neo- Malthusian’s Academia has a way of keeping ideas that it likes alive and not questioning its own dogma until it gets a new crop of academics. That’s why every bad idea it lasts like 80 years because we have to wait for all the people to believe something different to come in and the old people to leave

[@wickjezek5093]

I'm autistic and have ehlers danlos and ADHD. When I got diagnosed I stumbled upon this hypothesis and it resonated. I've joked since then I'm a genetic throw back, atavastic.

[@hive_indicator318]

I really hope that there's the research into the connection between EDS and neanderthal DNA. It just seems more intuitive. A tiny variant for them that didn't cause issues for how their muscles connected to their skeletons causing big issues when it's homo sapiens muscles connecting to our skeletons makes so much sense. Tell me if this is way off. It's like when you need a wrench to remove a bolt. It's 3/8", but you only have a 10 mm one available. Normally, this wouldn't be problem. But this wrench is a little over 10mm. Which means it's definitely too big for the bolt head and you're in danger of stripping it. Is that way off?

[@MaryKDayPetrano]

Well, Autistic bottom-up processing, literal language, truth telling, and different experience of raw sensory input would be considered "bad" by any Neurotypical anywhere ! But that doesn't make it so.

[@karlscher5170]

Not bad but weird and socially incompatible and thus a evolutionary disadvantage.

[@annw7843]

This is extremely interesting work. Will be glad to see where future research goes.

[@autiblog]

Awesome! Thank you so much 😍

[@tamjammy4461]

Interesting, as always . Topic i knew practically nothing about so ...

[@derekjkerr]

I believe neural diversity in general comes from a certain infint mindset. Could neural diversity in general be deeply influenced by ancient hybridisation?

[@eacalvert]

This was so cool!!!! And congrats on new baby!

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Thank you so much!

[@leward7788]

very interesting, i want more. i have a bit of an odd confluence of experience on the topic that my uneducated self seeks answers to

[@Dawnabrat]

Super interesting. Thank you.

[@shiftybroccoli8891]

I think that, because Autism is characterised by extreme divergence from the norm, it could be expected that rare DNA varients (when active) from all sister species would increase the likelihood of someone being noticably divergent from the homo sapiens sapiens norm.

[@shiftybroccoli8891]

@@serendipityculture1679 Yea so whether you have some "more than usual"/"rare" active Denisovan DNA or Neanderthal, or Naledi, you're going to seem very abnormal to the average modern human.

[@agustinussiahaan6669]

Interesting talk. Thank you.

[@marjae2767]

I haven't kept up with the field, but I think social causes could be important causes of the artistic explosion in the Upper Paleolithic Revolution. Assuming Neanderthal, Denisovan, and other non-Modern minds, communication patterns, etc. were more divergent than any Modern set, then different groups would face more communication challenges and double empathy problems. And further development of language, and of art, would be a solution. How would you distinguish social causes from genetic causes?

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

It is hard to make that distinction today even! Biology and Culture/Society have a major impact on how we function, both physically and behaviorally!

[@johnhudson7357]

I am extremely stingy when it come to subscribing to a You Tube channel . This conversation was so interesting that you won me over. Just subbed and look forward for future content.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Thank you so much! Check out the rest of the channel for the plenty of content like this!

[@johnhudson7357]

@@worldofpaleoanthropology I most definitely will.

[@vesuvandoppelganger]

How do we know if a sequence of nucleotide bases is Neanderthal DNA or human DNA?

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

We have mapped both genomes. 🧬 and can line them up to see where bases differ. Since we are so closely related, we do not differ in that many places, but we have identified where, since we knew the modern human genome prior. Once we learned the Neanderthal genome, which was some time later, we could line them up and compare. Does that make sense?

[@vesuvandoppelganger]

We don't say that humans have chimpanzee DNA. So why is there a difference when comparing human DNA and Neanderthal DNA?

[@jaybasil1239]

@@vesuvandoppelganger "chimps and humans share 99 percent of their DNA" and are our closest cousins currently in the animal kingdom that we know of. JG Institute of Canada When you say that "we don't say that humans have chimpanzee DNA" what do you mean? It's pretty clear we do and I don't see anyone ever having said that except for religious folks that think the earth is 6000 years old.

[@vesuvandoppelganger]

You might read something like... "Genetic research shows that most people outside of Africa have about 2% Neanderthal DNA." You won't read something like... "People have about 99% chimpanzee DNA." 23andMe doesn't give a chimpanzee ancestry DNA report. I am a bit unclear as to how they determine Neanderthal DNA within the human genome. If a nucleotide base in the human genome is different from the corresponding nucleotide base in the Neanderthal genome then it is a human nucleotide base. If it is the same as the corresponding nucleotide base in the Neanderthal genome how do we decide if it is a human nucleotide base or a Neanderthal nucleotide base?

[@MossyMozart]

@@vesuvandoppelganger - Between Sapiens and Chimpanzees, we have parallel DNA matches, inherited from our Common Ancestor. The DNA we took in by hybridization is actual DNA from the Neanderthals, Denisonvans, and the Archaic contributor - There was canoodling going on, so that DNA _was_. directly transferred.

[@DorchesterMom]

Watching for the third time in as many months and it struck me: as a neurodivergent woman with inattentive adhd, who was always (and still is!) super picky about foods, Turns out after having my autosomal DNA yested that I have the super-taster gene. It presents most strongly in childhood, just in time to set you up for lifelong aversions. NOW, I wonder if that specific SNP is possibly Neanderthal derived? “Don’t eat that bitter tasting thing, it will kill you?”😊😅

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

That’s awesome to find out! Makes you wonder for sure!

[@emilev2134]

I feel like this comment section would be full of people willing to volunteer for the follow up studies.

[@larrywilliams9139]

Did you check the African American population for ghost ancestor percentage? That could be a real wild card on compatibility. I have less than 5% African on all gedmatch calculators but one shows .5% ghost. Maybe unrelated at that low a % but I and children are on the spectrum.

[@louisegariepy2804]

All this doesn't reflect what the scientific community thinks about this question. Has the subsaharanAfrican been studied? Is there autism there? This huge population doesn't carry the Neendertalian DNS: this would be the most important population to compare with!

[@stiofanmacamhalghaidhau765]

yes they do. the issue is accessing sufficient genetic data. also the idea that subsaharan populations carry no neanderthal dna is broadly true but it is there.

[@r.ladaria135]

"I'll go ahead and suggest you contact the UIB, the University of the Balearic Islands in Spain. It seems like our common ancestor's behavior indicates that we all might have some traits similar to level 1 autism. At least the population that descends from the 250,000 inhabitants who were already here at the beginning of the 20th century .

[@rockman5066]

If parts of our DNA do not code for protein sequences, then what does it do; how does it do anything?

[@derekjkerr]

Neurally diverse mums often give birth to naturally diverse offspring but, rarely with the same diversity, autism being one of them. How does that sit with ancient hybridisation?

[@amriksinghtziripouloff8627]

I heared recently that they are two Homo sapiens migrations out of Africa: One 70000 or 75000 year toward south and east Asia and unsuccessfully in Europ where they seems to have been suplanted by neanderthal that bring mixig with more than 30% with neandertals and specially denisovians among Australian aborigines. Then the modern Homo sapiens came about 35000 years ago replacing everywhere the first wave population exept in Papouasie and Australia. And replacing the Neanderthal in Europe. I would like to know more about Australian aborigenes genetics. It must be very interesting a see the effect of the bidggest part of the genome of neanderthal and denisovian that didn't survive in other populations.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

There were many, many migrations out of Africa, the first successful one was around 75kya

[@DogWalkerBill]

One of the characteristics of ME is that I have a very large skull. When I was in high school, the coach had to buy an extra large football helmet for me. (One other guy om my team had a larger skull.) When my youngest son was growing in the womb, there was concern that his head was very large. My wife was 38 years old, so there was concern about Down syndrome. A genetic test was done, and he was found to have normal genes, no Down syndrome. The doctors did not have this concern about my older son who was born 4 years earlier. But both of my children were born by Caesarian section. My wife was petite, 5' 2", and I was 6' 0". Both of my sons grew to be over 6' tall (about 6' 4".) I've read that Neanderthals, and surely Denisovans had larger skulls than modern humans. I've wondered if that's why I have a larger skull. (It doesn't seem to have any affect on my intellect which is high-average. Both of my sons were very high IQ types.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

A. IQ doesn’t measure intelligence. It measures how well you do on tests. B. Any Neanderthal genes you might have don’t affect your or your son’s brains. Even the smallest amounts of DNA where these differences happen aren’t always passed down, and everything you’re talking about is perfectly normal for modern humans.

[@i.m.gurney]

DNA is base 2, but what base is the whole electrochemical system.... It has occurred to me that pairing to make a singular is far older than sexual reproduction. Perhaps even from the near beginning of life, at least the start of the RNA world.

[@fritnat]

Interesting theory but for someone not in the autism community it would have been useful with some straightforward facts, or at least what we think we know so far, around autism and genetics. I had always understood that in contrast to eg downs syndrome, it was impossible to say that this fetus would have autism from the DNA, but it wasn't clear to me whether this was still the case. Emily spoke about major and minor effects, with a major effect meaning a person was highly likely to develop autism but a minor effect have to be one of a multitude and _maybe some environmental stuff._ I thought there had to be some environmental _stuff_ in all cases, that acted as a trigger, since it had been shown with identical twins that sometimes one develops autism and the other doesn't? This would naturally lead to some having the genetic disposition but lacking the environmental _stuff_ ending up in the control group. If the present position is that an environmental trigger is still necessary then obviously ethnicity could play a confounding role and maybe a much bigger one than weak penetrative neanderthal DNA?

[@thomassmith4999]

I've long suspected this theory was the case. Great to see it starting to get proven. I and my sons have strong asd (and my brother). We have noticeably large optic systems that always get pointed out at eye scans. My youngest son also had some noticeably different brain structures before he was born on the ultrasounds. He's very unusual today at age for but has developed reasonable speech. He's not a savant but does have a lot of savant qualities. The rest of us have fairly high IQs (140s) but socially non functional.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Your ASD features have no relation to physical traits; that is not what we are talking about. If it is different, your son's brain is not related, as far as we know, to Neanderthal DNA. Finally, IQ is a poor measure of intellect, as we cannot define what intelligence is-food for thought.

[@thomassmith4999]

​@@worldofpaleoanthropology You can actually most of time pick an autistic kid physically if you know what to look for (or an adult from their walk, once you know) The frontal lobe is quite a lot larger in early life and the optic cup eye scan method is better than 95% accurate. There's papers on this. It's the ventricles at the back of the brain which are different on ultrasounds before birth. Also head shape is different. Narrower and longer in utero.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

@@thomassmith4999 Id love to see the evidence for this,

[@thomassmith4999]

@@worldofpaleoanthropology Just search it up. There's a lot of studies. There's another one about diagnosis at birth with sound pressure testing of the ears. Autistic infants ears respond differently. You can also easily tell from the brain growth chart in the first year. There's a rapid acceleration way beyond normal growth. Some used to say that's what causes the unpruned neurons in the frontal lobe of autistics and causes autism but I think it's more correct to say the genes deliberately develop the brain in that way to increase intelligence. Since theres also a halt in brain growth at the third trimester in order to set that rapid catchup growth up. I see all these patterns. because as you expect patterns are my thing. The optic cup diameter is very useful since it's also accurate to find schizophrenia in the opposite direction (they have even smaller optic systems than neurotypical people)

[@wickjezek5093]

​There's emerging research into autism and physical symptoms. There's a high overlap with hypermobility and autistic people have a much higher rate of comorbid physical illnesses. Disease/symptom burden and type have been used in some studies to propose phenotypes or "types" of autism. In reference to "seeing" autism toe walking and holding arms in a "T-Rex" position (elbows bent at sides, hands perched in front about shoulder height) are shown in research and joked about amongst autistics. Mamy autistic adults are high masking/camouflaging - they hide their autistic traits and make efforts to fit in with neurotypical society. Molecular Autism had a lot of these studies and is a great journal, or just a quick pubmed search. (I don't have all my sources available, sorry for the extra leg work)

[@dianetheone4059]

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@MarmaladeINFP]

Autism surely has some genetic components, but it's more complicated than that. Children have higher risk of developing autism or other neurological abnormalities and neurodevelopmental disorders (ADHD, intellectual disability, etc) when the mother, during pregnancy, had some combination of metabolic syndrome, diabetes, preeclampsia, obesity, high blood pressure, enhanced steroidogenic activity, immune activation, asthma, toxic chemical exposure, air pollution, valproate intake, and possibly alterred zinc-copper cycles and SSRI usage. So, metabolic health and much else is not only a comorbidity in the autistic individual but strangely across generations. Mothers of autistic children also reported higher rates of psychiatric disorders. Fathers play a role as well, such as their metabolic unfitness similarly contributing to greater risk of autism. A family history of autoimmune disorders additionally correlates. Paternal age likewise is involved, not only in ASD but in other disorders like schizophrenia. Parental comorbidities also on average increase the severity of ASD in their children. All of this has been confirmed in numerous studies over more than a decade, and is discussed in the etiology of autism, including in a Wikipedia article that offers an overview. On a related note, epigenetic markers in parents, such as observed in the father's sperm, is associated with their children's chances of having ASD. It's likely the state of parental health is causing or otherwise related to those epigenetic alterations, maybe in the way that de novo mutations are happening in the autistic child. But it's not only the health condition of the parents at conception and during pregnancy. Preterm birth and hypoxia at birth additionally worsens risk of issues in ASD, including but not limited to attention and behavior problems, psychiatric and neurological disorders, and growth conditions. The point is that none of this indicates mere genetic determinism ir even primarily genetic. That isn't to assert that ASD is solely a disease or symptom of disease. But it is to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that ASD can't be separted from disease. Even as genetic predispositons no doubt play a role, it's environment and epigenetics that pushes a potential into an actually manifested condition. Many other people probably have the same genetic predispositions without ever developing ASD or else not as severely. In conclusion, autism can't be entirely caused by normal genetic variation, if not doubt it contributes.

[@thomassmith4999]

None of that is true. Genuine asd is only genetic. Other things you've mentioned are coincidental and due to having asd

[@richardmanoogian8513]

Very cool discussion. From caveman to rainman

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Top Notch

[@TheMuppyOtter]

I think my mom is pretty autistic but she doesn’t know it. I think I have undiagnosed aspergers. She has a higher than average % of Neanderthal, mine is closer to average

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

The percentage of DNA does not have an effect, but she could be! Many people are on the spectrum, it is much more common than people think!

[@bensabelhaus7288]

So, at what point do the "neurotypicals" understand what divergent actually means?

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

At what point can you identify neurotypicals from neurodivergent?

[@bensabelhaus7288]

@@worldofpaleoanthropology 6-13,000 years ago would be a good starting point with the cranial adaptations to processed grains (ongoing, wisdom teeth issues) and beginnings of written language with larger and more complex social groups due to permanent settlement.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

@@bensabelhaus7288 What? What are you attempting to say?

[@bensabelhaus7288]

@@worldofpaleoanthropology Autism / neurodevelopmental disorders are just a pre-settlement neurology stuffed into a settled anatomy that is still adapting. The neurodivergent is the population neurologically adapted best to the anatomical changes presented by settlement. Neurotypical is what we have been since Neanderthals at least. So 300,000 years vs 6-13,000 and still slowly adapting to the smaller jaw and cranium. That neurotype diverged while our anatomy diverged.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

So then why is there variation among modern humans?

[@MetaPhysStore0770]

Nope! No connection from what ive seen, im part neaderthal and my family has none and the country we came from does not have high autism, where as one lady i know with 3 autistic kids is irish , no neanderthal, other people i know with autistic childeren, where my daughter is a special ed teacher with many autistic kids and they are mexican, no neanderthal, or philipino, no neanderthal, or italian, no neanderthal and probly about half her autisic kids are african american children, no neanderthal, THERE IS ZERO CONNECTION TO NEANDERTHAL IN ANY OF THESE KIDS😢 However there is a nearly universal use of drugs, smoking and poor diet, high sugar diet...😮

[@Leonardo7772012]

😂😂😂 you skipped a lot of classes!

[@W4BIN]

I know a man (a retired dentist) that genetic testing reveled that he is 75% Neanderthal and he appears to be 100% normal to me. He looks very much as most drawings depict a Neanderthal man looks. Ron W4BIN

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

You also share 95% of your DNA with a banana. That’s not how it works bud.

[@Jaggerbush]

Congratulations (its akward to NOT say it now...)

[@DogWalkerBill]

Have you thought about studying people who do have Neaderthal/Denisovan DNA but do NOT have negative symptoms. Why is Person A OK with these genes, but Person B is Not OK.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

What is “ok” to you?

[@RoundSomeStuff]

The term neurotypical and neurodivergent are unhelpful. In looking at variation and typicality one is in the realm of statistical analysis and we have a mean for people with Aspies and a mean for non-Aspies and the difference between these two means describes the inter-group difference. Then comes intra-group variation which applies to each group. It is likely that the intra-group variation for Aspies is smaller than the intra-group variation of non-Aspies, meaning non-Aspies are the more neurodiverse group than Aspies.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Asperger’s is not even recognized anymore.

[@RoundSomeStuff]

@@worldofpaleoanthropology Well you don't say. Would an Aspie care what a bunch of Non Player Characters thought? By merging the two it confounds any analysis when conclusions are drawn. It was for ease of diagnosis and legal reasons.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

@ It’s actually because the diagnostic criteria was set by a nazi exploring eugenics, but ok, believe what you will.

[@eileenjohnston6835]

Re: Misarriages: Some women sadly suffer many miscarriages. Is it possible that incompatible Neaderthall genes are involved/

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Misscarges occur for a myriad of reasons, there is no reason to think it’s due to admixture. Miscarriages can occur due to eating the wrong food.

[@eileenjohnston6835]

@@worldofpaleoanthropology thank you

[@MossyMozart]

@eileenjohnston6835 - I don't remember specifically which lecture it was, but here on KZbin, Dr Paabo spoke about Neanderthal / Sapien genes and miscarriage. Maybe that lecture will answer your questions.

[@eileenjohnston6835]

@@MossyMozart Thank you

[@grbradsk]

Eugenics got quite a bad name for reasons of genocide mainly via ideas of "racial purity" but also the consideration of killing or sterilizing populations with genetic problems. But, IF we can find problematic mutations or advantageous DNA sequences, what is actually so bad about editing them out or in respectively into one's genome?

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Ffs

[@meikala2114]

its always timing, that and bending the knees

[@robertprovince9685]

You have to be kidding. Were they neurotic? Did they like sweets? Loud noises? They must have also had a mandatory vaccine schedule

[@MossyMozart]

I hope you are being sarcastic.

[@autisticberserker1807]

This feels very icky to me.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Icky?

[@isabellefaguy7351]

@@worldofpaleoanthropology Like your guest said, the autistic community has been and is still targeted by eugenists. Autism $peaks continues, to this day, to spend a lot of money on eugenist-flavored research. Even Alphabet, the company that owns Google, has been involved in this. Other organisations as well. Plus, we've seen what happened to the Down syndrome population. So, even though I am very curious intellectually and like to read research papers, I'm quite nervous about people, e.g. voters and politicians, with not even basic scientific notions, and a never too far away eugenist mentality, taking decisions about autism. I understand the nuances of your guest speach (even if English is a 2nd language), but most politicians, law makers, people deciding for which parent to push to do abortion (ask any mother who's foetus was found to have Down syndrome the amount of pression they got to abort), these people don't have the ability to understand the nuances.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

@@isabellefaguy7351 And we understand all of that; that is why we discuss it, and about how this research does not involve that, so I am confused as to how this video and this research are icky if it is not involved. I clearly talked about eugenics, how its bad, and how we cant allot it to happen. You can't ignore science completely; you have to use it for good. Science is a tool, like any other, and it can be used for good or evil. Im Jewish, Quees, and on the Spectrum, trust me when I say I fear what Eugenics can do as well.

[@loislewis5229]

Don’t believe this

[@meikala2114]

don't believe you

[@MossyMozart]

I shall put my faith in a well-known, well-educated researcher over some random poster on the 'net.

[@isabellefaguy7351]

Science isn't about beliefs, it's about facts checking and observation. It's not a religion.

[@SRPine-c7e]

Voice too grainy or throaty deep. Hard pass unfortunately. Stopped in the first 30 seconds.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Rofl. So sorry.

[@irenedebruyn2796]

?

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

@randomletter-5i4seriously!

[@lijohnyoutube101]

The professor is brilliant and the topic is interesting however they likely have zero clue how much they say ‘uum’ to such an extent I had to stop listening. This individual needs some very extensive speech coaching to reduce the frequency of the habit.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

This comment is so dumb

[@lijohnyoutube101]

@@worldofpaleoanthropology that’s not kind at all. The video came up in my feed. The professor has a severe presentation problem that they are likely unaware of that needs addressed. It makes their otherwise brilliance overshadowed. It is helpful feedback that they hopefully see so that their brilliance can shine thru. Everyone has flaws, sometimes the flaws impact our presentation of ourselves to the world. If you had a very glaring issue would you not want it kind raised up so it could be corrected? Why respond with a putdown? It’s not nice, it didn’t fix the issue etc.

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Because it was a rude, unnecessary, unhelpful comment. The speaker likely knows how they speak. Thank you.

[@emilylcasanovaphd]

Actually, I’m a very popular teacher at my university- but I’m usually doing material a bunch of times over, so there’s a certain amount of repetition. For new unpracticed material, you’re gonna get a bunch of “ums” from me. I’m cool with that. My brain can only multitask so much! 😂😜

[@lijohnyoutube101]

@@emilylcasanovaphd the world only has so many days for each of us and part of that I absolutely agree is to decide where you wish to direct energy to. There was zero intention to be rude, it’s just for me personally the severity of it was so distracting I couldn’t get thru the video. Even though the topic was fantastic and being neurodivergent something I was interested in.

[@mirupacha]

My name is … your title?? So, I can say… my name is ‘Dad Alex Quintero?’ Some of these academics are more interested in themselves then in Society!!

[@worldofpaleoanthropology]

Wtf?

[@karlscher5170]

Dissocial genome in a highly social species is highly disadvantageous. What makes me concerned is that our culture enables spectrum people to produce and spread antisocial ideologies, that dissolute our societies and weakens them toward more primitive tribal societies.

[@meikala2114]

you sound like a narcissist loosing their narcisstic supply, diddums to that

[@karlscher5170]

@@meikala2114 I didn't say anything about myself. Why do you feel the need to diagnose me wirh narcissism?

[@jillsmiley7701]

Enables spectrum ppl to re - produce?

[@karlscher5170]

@@jillsmiley7701 You are really desperate for your victimization fix, are you? Produce ideologies I said.

[@isabellefaguy7351]

@worldofpaleoanthropology that's because of this kind of people that this subject is itchy for the autistic community