Exploring the Dynamics of Contact Improvisation: A Discussion on Ecology of Practices

In this episode, first released on Seth Dellinger's Move with Seth KZbin channel, John Vervaeke, Ken Manheimer, and Seth Dellinger explore the concept of "ecology of practices" through the lens of contact improvisation. They discuss the modern "meaning crisis" caused by societal disconnect and fragmentation, advocating for shared agency and transjective participation to address these issues. Manheimer's experience in contact improvisation reveals its potential for co-creation and mutual discovery, emphasizing the need to extend rationality beyond traditional bounds. This conversation showcases contact improvisation as a vital practice for fostering sacred participation and confronting the meaning crisis.
Seth Dellinger is a movement practitioner, embodied dialogue facilitator, and the host of the Move with Seth podcast. He is passionate about cultivating presence, empathy, and meaningful connections through mindful movement and conversation.
Ken Manheimer is a long-time practitioner and coordinator of contact improvisation in Washington, D.C. He is also a computer programmer with a deep interest in the intersection of movement, dialogue, and personal growth. Ken is dedicated to fostering community and exploring the transformative potential of shared experiences.
Glossary of Terms
Ecology of Practices: A framework for understanding the coordinated use of diverse practices to enhance cognitive flexibility and combat self-deception.
Contact Improvisation: A dance practice emphasizing physical interaction and mutual responsiveness without predetermined steps or movements.
John Vervaeke:
Website: johnvervaeke.com/
KZbin: / @johnvervaeke
Patreon: / johnvervaeke
X: / vervaeke_john
Facebook: / vervaekejohn
Seth Dellinger:
Website: sethdellinger.com/
Ken Manheimer:
Website: myriadicity.net/
Resources
Join our new Patreon
/ johnvervaeke
The Vervaeke Foundation - vervaekefoundation.org/
Awaken to Meaning - awakentomeaning.com/
John Vervaeke KZbin
Awakening from the Meaning Crisis • Awakening from the Mea...
Vervaeke, J., & Mastropietro, C. (2021). Dialectic into Dialogos and the Pragmatics of No-thingness in a Time of Crisis. Eidos. A Journal for Philosophy of Culture, 5(2), 58-77. eidos.uw.edu.pl/dialectic-int...
Chiappe, D., & Vervaeke, J. (2018). The Experience of Presence in the Mars Exploration Rover Mission. Presence: Teleoperators and Virtual Environments, 27(4), 400-409. doi.org/10.1162/pres_a_00337
Chiappe, D., & Vervaeke, J. (2020). The enactment of shared agency in teams exploring Mars through rovers. Phenomenology and the Cognitive Sciences, 1-25.
link.springer.com/article/10....
Chiappe, D., & Vervaeke, J. (2021). Distributed cognition and the experience of presence in the Mars Exploration Rover Mission. Frontiers in Psychology, 12. doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.68...
East Coast Contact Improv Jam - eastcoastjam.com/
Contact Quarterly. (2022, November 5). Magnesium (1972): Official Trailer [Video]. KZbin. • Magnesium (1972): Offi...
Homsher, S., & Humphrey, J. (n.d.). Steve Homsher and Jess Humphrey in a playful contact improvisation [Video]. KZbin
• CI36 Steve Homsher, et...
Quotes
"The basic idea behind the Ecology of Practice is...a way of trying to deal with...our cognition, which isn't just our knowing, it's our entire sense-making apparatus." - John Vervaeke [00:03:20]
"Contact improvisation...it's an experiential thing that you do in a deep way with someone else where neither person is leading." - Ken Manheimer [00:09:14]
"Participatory knowing is the deepest grounding kind of knowing that makes all the other kinds of knowing possible." - John Vervaeke [00:15:00]
Chapters
[00:00:00] - Introduction
[00:03:00] - Exploring the Ecology of Practices
[00:09:14] - Contact Improvisation and Participation
[00:23:00] - Merging Verbal and Non-verbal Communication: Integrating Communication Modes
[00:33:00] - Shared Agency and Practice Intimacy
[00:43:00] - The Meaning Crisis and Falling in Love with Being
[00:55:00] - Exploring Rationality Beyond Logic: Insights from Cognitive Science and Buddhism

[@esperanzafoletti9886]

Absolutely resonate to this. Encounter with the unknown... stepping out of the rules, into 'accident'

[@mikegarrigan5182]

In contact improvisation, just like in labor, there's a sense of shared responsibility and reliance on your partners. You need to be aware of their movements, anticipate their needs, and adapt your own actions to ensure a smooth and harmonious outcome. It's a beautiful reminder that we can find artistic expression and connection in everyday tasks, even something as seemingly unrelated as moving heavy objects with fellow laborers.

[@levicmwangi]

greatful for this loving kindness

[@JiminiCrikkit]

Really welcome exploration of the life of improvisation. Its truly a beautiful place to be with others. Keeping in touch.

[@zmasken]

Thanks for sharing this, it was valuable to me. Here are my key take aways: Presence (being actualized): For our skills it's power, for our beliefs it's truth. "Attachment to knowledge can prevent discovery" and "Practice discovery together" - I wonder if this is the basis or starting point of science? I also kept hearing the Chuang Tzu quote "where can I find a man who has forgotten words so that I can have a word with him?"

[@randybennett2143]

Yes! I can so relate to what Ken shared about (to paraphrase) not getting lost on the trail of his thoughts, but rather to actually participate. Thank you for participating in this conversation, Ken. Juicy stuff, my friend. I have had a lot of experience/experimenting with dancing (not professional, but as a form of Sacred play in community), and a bit of experience with Contact Improv in the past year, attending 8 or 10 classes with various teachers and groups, as well as less structured community events where it more spontaneously occurred. I am still very much a beginner in CI, and gracefully interacting with others doesn't come so naturally to me, but I nevertheless wanted to offer some reflections from my experience. John, you were asking about the phenomenology of the collaborative state.... With Contact Improv I find that the non spoken nature of the practice eliminates the vast majority of potential for misunderstanding. There is still a language, as Ken states, but it is primarily flowing and continuous, consisting of only a small number of discreet symbolic gestures (an invitation, a yes, a no...). And so it is relatively easy for everyone to quickly come to trust one other (at least within the context of this container, although some of that trust certainly transfers to outside of it)... and everyone knows that everyone trusts each other.... And not only trusts but also cares about one another, for example taking time up front to share and be aware of any injuries anyone might have... but also in the subtle nuance of each moment of contact. What I'm saying is that within this simplified context of unspoken human to human participation there can form something like an Indra's Net of trust and care. This then affords a clarity and freedom to the collective and to the individual. This affords Collective Play. At this point there are no mistakes, not really. Are you moving stiffly? Maybe someone notices this, takes you in their arms and drops you back. Oh, I just received a LOT of rich information for a three second exchange: This person is trustworthy. This contrasts to how I was feeling right before. Letting go feels good when I do it with someone I trust. I could give this experience to someone else. Control is not the thing - for who controls the collective anyways? Immediately after one of my first contact improv experiences, while the group was just chatting afterwards, I distinctly recall feeling similar to how I might have felt, say all the way back in Kindergarten. Part of this was probably due to the fact that we were all sitting and standing next to the shoe cubbies at the entrance to the dance floor - very kindergartenesque. But importantly there was this innocent, trusting, open, playfulness - a sort of intimacy. And this was with a group of primarily strangers, though some people did know each other prior. The contrast between how I felt with the group walking in, and how I felt after the CI dance session, a mere 2 hours later, was stark. And the whole thing is a of course a potent, participatory metaphor for social interactions and life in general. If you learn how to invite someone into contact and listen for a yes or no on the dance floor... this procedural knowing can be exapted to say, listening for a yes or no when inviting someone on a date. Now imagine having this experience with a community united not only on the dance floor, but in their day to day lives. This is what I am working towards, and look forward to sharing more, but all in good time.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Will listen till the end. Will not interrupt! Honoring thy sincere conversations unto one another availeth much indeed.

[@MrEgelados]

I love this episode! I started practicing Contact Improv a year an a half ago -- about the same time that I discovered John's work. Pretty quickly I saw opportunities to apply John's ideas to dancing CI. Luckilly, we have a great CI community here in Germany! :)

[@HavocJackGames]

How do you make a tree? You plant the seed, water the soil and give it access to light. The tree will make itself of its own accord. Awesome talk as always.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Thank you pop Seth, John, and my Heir Ken attending unto our OWN and unto one another availeth much indeed. Thank you! Love you too without shame but with boldness!

[@missh1774]

21:41 I know what it feels like to me 😏 and I agree to the point that I have no other choice but to (tentatively) give some room for the other person to ameliorate a sense of shared space. In fact I wrote about this difference as a likeness to a bull in a porcelain store. 27:00 if the key is "following", who or what is leading? For me personally it would be the tree branches of knowledge. But for this... It is different and I would love to see how you all transpire such things. 30:15 touch is a interpersonal mediator of information such as what makes the material of clothing more informative than the design and your relationship with the designer. In our culture we have always touched nose to nose because it is the representation of breath giving breath to life. 38:24 after watching your video, to me, it looked like "contact improve" historically came out of similar cultures to the Druidic versions of the female devine ceremonial rituals. Meaning the females are the leaders. But still ?? What were they following ... 51:20 dance in any genre is always meant to be a following. I am not and was never a good dancer, however I enjoyed music and it always had a way of opening up something inside of me. 56:00 I am not a Buddhist but that example is also something I alluded to in my writings today whereby "the gap" was represented by "no reason" and dot dot dot. In that story he was the witness of something bizarre. But despite his impediments it was the only way for reason to occur between one point and another. 1:01:30 your northern Canadian wilder-indianess is collaborating with me when you say it like that John. Thank you guys. I really appreciate the challenge 💛

[@oxy5100]

Another gem

[@tripish]

I teach relational mindfulness (eg circling) and contact improvisation. I’m revisiting my pedagogy towards both, and exploring their complementarity. I’ve always felt they point towards the same thing (i.e. a felt sense of relationality from mutual listening), but in different ways - the verbal and non-verbal) that provide some the other is missing. @John I’d love to dive deeper into your thoughts and explorations around ecologies of practice, oppositional processing, etc and see how it might inspire new ways of teaching each of these practices. Is there somewhere I could learn about the more technical aspects of your work around this? Also much gratitude to y’all for the inspiration I’ve received from this conversation.

[@clintnorton4322]

Me and my brothers did this semi instinctively while wrestling in a pile in the yard. Sometimes the dog played too. We've all continued something like it off and on. I think you'll find that older farm children would find this too simplistic.

[@jkrofling9524]

This is the first time I've heard anyone say the words, "Contact Improv" since that time I tried it, when I was doing Jujitsu as a younger man.

[@projectmalus]

Great stuff. The contact improv and transjective seem aligned as two things, joining the collective human and averaging their organ's response to the other thing which is that corresponding organ in the world. An example is the lungs, and nitrogen as gregarious as shown in the redox tower, the lungs born as feminine assertion into the world and first breath as feminine assertion by the world, air pressure allowing diaphragm and allowed by gravity emanating. Averaging the organ response since the human strength is different perceptions from the same form, which means people have different strengths and weaknesses in their organs and so different perceptions. If knowledge is tied to light emergence, then a cone from above and below almost joined as spinning top with person having a waist of facets of organ to ecosystem correspondence. This homogenized by the practice which aligns with real power in the world, both asserting and allowing light and gravity balanced as self with sacred trust.

[@VIPFeedback]

First 🎉

[@oliverjamito9902]

It's ok to correct one another, nor to bring to remembrance without being offended. Remember loving you! Is the fulfillment. Without obviously ye my HEIRS won't be having sincere conversations unto one another. In front!

[@yaboi4831]

have you guys heard of sex

[@oliverjamito9902]

What is thinking? Remember thy shared "i" AM and came with conversations given just for thee! Who ye are talking too concerning thy thinking? Talking to thyself. Ask if the LIGHT WITHIN is of God of life for the living nor...who deceiveth?

[@oliverjamito9902]

Who is God of the Living? My Heirs who are worth RESPECTING, HONORING, LOVING, AND GIVING MY LIFE FOR A FRIEND KIND OF LOVE. A friend kind of love. A FRIEND! My "AM" prepared the Way for the little Child "i" born. All set UNDERFOOT! Under HIS FEET! The "i" AM. The Comforter to bring to remembrance and comes with comfort

[@mrwhite2039]

I'm anti AI John so i have to unsub bud. Be better time spent just pumping traditional churches with money and funding rural communities. Or starting moral lobby group, or just working to get rid of lobby groups. Things like this. But best of luck.