EXPOSING the LIE about POWER ON Stalls (The Complete Guide to Power On Stalls)

[@MrJangs20]

As a student pilot, you have the best videos out there. I’ve learned so much from you and truly appreciate the time and effort you put into each one. They way that you explain things is amazing. Thanks so much for all you do for the aviation community!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you so much for that! It means a lot!

[@stefanvitali7616]

I’m a student pilot too!

[@tonyvelasquez6776]

​@@stefanvitali7616 no one: The tapeworm peeking out my bussy: 👀

[@cyberfiche]

I'm a private pilot, and I agree too!

[@shoedlg3508]

I generally agree with your mindset about aileron use. You might, however, caution students about the conclusions they draw from doing power-on stalls dual or solo. If they find themselves in a 172 with a full back seat, they may find the aircraft response to aileron inputs can be quite different at aft CG. Just as aft CG reduces pitch stability, it also reduces yaw stability. The adverse yaw from aileron inputs will result in bigger sideslip angles when the CG is aft. Whereas the airplane might tolerate aileron clumsiness when dual or solo, it may be far more spin prone at aft CG. Instilling the instinct to react with rudder might save the day when the unexpected power-on stall happens with a full back seat. There’s a reason you can’t intentionally spin 172s unless the CG is far enough forward to put the aircraft in the Utility category.

[@FreePilotTraining]

This is actually an excellent point. Thank you so much for the comment!

[@contessa.adella]

All conventionally configured aeroplanes can become a handful with a rearward CG (dunno about canards), in the extreme you’ll get pitch instability and divergent behaviour (dives and climbs tighten steeper with no extra control input)…This is crash material and the reason you never overload the rear beyond the aircraft’s specified CG range. Spins get much harder to recover as well….

[@PhillyCoinCollector]

This helped me a lot. I started taking flying lessons a few years ago, but quit when I almost entered a spin when doing a power on stall. My instructor had to save it for me. He said it was okay and normal, but the damage had been done. I was freaked out. So I quit. The aviation bug has returned though, and Power on stalls I knew were going to be my biggest fear to get over. But this helped me so much, I cant wait to try it! Thank you so much!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Awesome! So glad you found this helpful! Thanks for the comment!

[@kevinklassen4328]

We intentionally get into spins in our PPL training in Canada to practice getting in/out of them. It's actually kind of fun once you get comfortable with the technique and I think helps you become much better staying coordinated and avoiding them in the first place.

[@FriendlyMarmot]

13:49 Was not expecting that sound, I jumped out of my skin! I'm learning lots though and the need to balance on the longitudinal axis with ailerons when approaching a stall makes intuitive aerodynamic sense to me. I'm smiling now because I'm getting the knowledge, and when I recognize the good instincts it reminds me that I have the makings of a good pilot deep down. I'm starting to do more and more solo work towards PPL and surprised myself the other day with some immaculate ground reference maneuvers and nailing my altitude to the wall during steep turns, I got a good scan going and it never budged! Thanks for everything, these videos help in so many ways!

[@aviatortrucker6285]

Always remember, if the airplane slides sharply to one side, neutral aileron and high rudder. If it banks hard left, neutral aileron and right rudder. (Rudder opposite the fall).

[@FreePilotTraining]

Lol, sorry. I might’ve made it a bit loud. Thank you so much! It’s very encouraging to see that people like you are getting value out of these videos.

[@FriendlyMarmot]

@@FreePilotTraining It's all good sir! In the end I thought it was funny; that was a quality jump-scare.

[@FriendlyMarmot]

@@aviatortrucker6285 yes! And don't forget to set throttle idle; especially in a left-handed spin, the torque from the propeller is a major force keeping you spinning that direction. Still full right rudder, but idle throttle should make the spin a lot easier to overcome

[@FreePilotTraining]

@@FriendlyMarmot lol. Good

[@BruceAirFlying]

I'm concerned that folks may misinterpret some of the points you make in this video. You certainly can and should use coordinated aileron and rudder inputs as you set up for stalls, including power-on stalls. Problems can arise, however, if you use ailerons at and beyond the stall--for example, when a wing drops. Using aileron to try to pick up a wing is the wrong response at that point. It's also important to emphasize that the *first* action when recovering from high-AoA events, including a stalls, is pushing--or relaxing back pressure--to reduce AoA. Adding (max) power comes later in the recovery sequence. Adding power before reducing AoA can increase pro-spin tendencies in certain aircraft and situations. As the "Airplane Flying Handbook" notes, "...[T]he pilot should remember the most important action to an impending stall or a full stall is to reduce the AOA. There have been numerous situations where pilots did not first reduce AOA, and instead prioritized power and maintaining altitude, which resulted in a loss of control" (p. 5-15). In fact, in some aircraft approved for intentional spins , the AFM/POH recommends adding power and applying aileron to encourage a clean entry into a spin. For example, many years ago, Cessna published a pamphlet, "Spin Characteristics of Cessna Models [150-177 series]" (D5014-2-13). That document notes that for several C172 models, "Entries at all utility loadings will be difficult to obtain unless some power and a slight amount of aileron toward the desired spin direction are applied." It's true that designers use various techniques to help keep the ailerons effective at high AoA, but that doesn't mean you should use ailerons at or after the stall, when the force driving what looks like a roll is really yaw; and we manage yaw with the rudder. That's the message that good CFIs have been emphasizing--not that you shouldn't use coordinated ailerons and rudder to maintain heading as you *begin* the maneuver.

[@FreePilotTraining]

I appreciate your comment. I did mention both of those in this video. I probably should have emphasized them more though

[@DJ99777]

This is the comment I’ve been searching for.

[@jameswebb2856]

The best way to level the wings in a stall is to use aileron AND rudder together. I instructed that for years and it works every time.

[@GeorgeFriedrichHaack]

thanks bud I'm 66 and I've always wanted to fly so that's what I'm doing I have a kit plane comeing and am taking lessons from a guy who's been flying since he was 14 and has 5 years on me Love all the free info ......Living my dream

[@FreePilotTraining]

You’re welcome! Thanks for the comment! Enjoy the dream!

[@JCsaves333]

Awesome video!! Best training/refresher I have seen on KZbin. When it comes to training new or even experienced high hour pilots in my opinion it’s the most forgotten message. Plan ahead plan head!! This video shows the importance of planning ahead. In this case it’s for your flight test. It’s great to practice these manoeuvres over and over to create not only muscle memory but good habits to. Way to many GA/ commercial part 135 accidents are happening now in days because of poor planning skills. I was taught as a young 16 year old pilot in 1986 by older pilots. ie my uncle who had 20000 hours in bush flying and my other uncle with 18000 hours as a water boomer pilot and my brother in law who was a commercial airline pilot with 20000 hours. All of them flew there whole careers without a bent airplane. They told me from day one to ALWAYS Expect the unexpected. Plan for it. So as in this we’ll done video by an excellent instructor who knows exactly how to explain the skills it take with a full understanding of aero dynamics about the Power on Stall. It’s all about planning ahead. I’m now a subscriber to this channel 👍🏻😊

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you! That means a lot! I’m hoping to get into a lot of bush pilot work myself! Glad to have you on the channel!

[@AgonxOC]

I enjoyed this video!I disagree on a couple of things, but overall pretty great! One thing to consider is that the ball may NOT be accurate at high angles of attack. Look outside to keep the aircraft straight (On a course without yaw). I do not look inside when doing power on stalls and stay within 5 degrees.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks! That’s an excellent point about the ball! I appreciate the comment

[@omarjones1460]

This is excellent instruction. The old "Pick up the wing with the rudder" mantra is the biggest piece of misinformation out there. The primary concern during a stall should be the reduction of the AOA. I believe the "Don't use ailerons during a power-on" stall tecnique was an attempt to apply a spin recovery control proactively. There are two things proponents of this technique fail to realize. First is that attempting to maintain coordination with rudders alone is impossible. Secondly, applying rudder in a stall is how a spin is entered. With all that said, aircraft with elliptical wings and no wing twist like my CAP-10B have different stall characteristics. The buffet is barely noticeable and the stall occurs along the wingspan at the same time. Not over controlling the ailerons is more critical in these types. Excellent video.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks Omar! I appreciate that! Great point on the elliptical wings

[@TandaMadison]

Just practiced these today and your video is definitely helping me lock it into memory. Thanks.

[@FreePilotTraining]

You’re welcome! Thanks for commenting to let me know that my videos are a help!

[@jazzman5598]

Dude! What a fine channel. Just subbed. Back in my flying days I would take a 152 or a 172 up to 3000’ agl & then (while giving up no more than 100’ ) I would slow to rotation speed and get the horn blaring. Then I would very slowly do a 360 to the left and upon completing my turn I would roll out to my original heading. Rules: Stall horn blaring & no more than 100’ deviation. Rinse (your skivies) & repeat…….to the RIGHT! It was an awesome technique to use just prior to spin recovery training.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks! That sounds like fun! Lol. Sounds a lot like a Chandel! Thanks for the sub! I’ll see you around!

[@RaymondHundley-mf2wf]

The title was just a catch phrase used to get our attention. I immediately realized no one is lying when I began viewing the video. I personally enjoyed your detailed explanation. have become numb to catch phrases and take them with a grain of salt.

[@FreePilotTraining]

I appreciate the feedback. I personally felt like I was lied to during my training. That’s my reasoning for the title

[@buckyperchski-mc2vo]

Remember, the purpose of practicing this maneuver is how to get out of a stall, not how to get into one. I really like your video. MAX, RELAX, ROLL.

[@FreePilotTraining]

That is exactly right! Thank you so much!

[@LloydAviationCFI]

You are correct that washout (twist) and stall strips delay the onset of stall out near the wingtip and hence, the airplane maintains aileron authority ... until it doesn't. I have experience a student-initiated power-on stall where the student managed to FULLY stall the wing and then he rolled in full counter aileron. The aircraft snapped in the direction OPPOSITE of the applied aileron. The student froze because the airplane was doing the OPPOSITE of what he had commanded. I took control just about the time the aircraft passed through 90˚ of bank. Recovery at that point is relatively simple: unload, aileron neutral, rudder opposite the roll, and as soon as the wing is unstalled, aileron to roll wings level. It is extremely important for the student to understand that THIS IS POSSIBLE! They really need to see AND recover from this so that it doesn't elicit startle and freeze response. I teach spins and UPRT so I offer this to my primary students. Most take me up on it. They have no problem with power-on stalls after that as, to them, the power on stall is now just a benign maneuver.

[@FreePilotTraining]

This is a good point, and it’s likely that this is why the air force teaches stall recovery with the memory aid: MAX, RELAX, ROLL. All of which can be accomplished at the same time. Yes, breaking the stall is BY FAR the most important part of stall recovery, but MAX power helps as well, and by ROLLING to Neutral ailerons as soon as you get a stall, you avoid those deep stalled wings that can occur IN the stall. Thanks for the input

[@LloydAviationCFI]

@@FreePilotTraining I use UPRT as the acronym for recovery from an upset -- and every stall should be treated as an upset. (U)nload, (P)ower -- increase if below Va, decrease if above Va, (R)oll wings level, (T)ransition to level flight. I try to avoid using "push" or "pull" for 'unload' and 'transition' because you can end up with a nose up or nose down upset, or an upright or inverted upset. I have experienced several upsets besides the event from my comment above and so can attest to the efficacy of UPRT. Now we just need more CFIs to understand, embrace, practice, and teach it.

[@TheflyingrealtorKY]

I’m a tactile learner. I don’t do well retaining information if I only read content. I’m at the xc solo stage of my PPL. So obviously I’ve done many power on/off stalls. This video is excellent because it made the concept much easier for me to grasp. I’m training in a DA40 and those suckers are hard to stall. But I’ve managed it. Thanks for the great video

[@FreePilotTraining]

You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!

[@LowandFast357]

Thank God that's the lie you were exposing! I've had many an argument in the comments section of other Aviation KZbinrs. Great video, man - love it. FWIW, I teach turning stalls in both power-on and power-off conditions. And mostly in Cirrus. It's far less dangerous than people make it out to be.

[@FreePilotTraining]

So true! Thank you so much for the comment

[@falsedragon33]

No one lied to anyone. Many people may be wrong, bit no one lied.

[@LowandFast357]

@@falsedragon33 Semantics. But OK, I agree.

[@bwro66]

@@falsedragon33 words do matter. call it semantics sure... but lie? exposing the lie? Sounds like exposing the deep state or something.

[@daft4682]

I finished the video after my last comment. I got through a check ride and this is the first time I think I've ever connected the idea that a power on stall is related to taking off. I wish I had you as an instructor. 99% of my training was my instructor obsessing over those check ride points without connecting them to any aspect of actually flying. I've done about 50 hrs since my check ride and a lot of that was going high and experimenting. Trying to teach myself through trial and error how to actually fly. It's been a few yrs since I flew. I stopped flying because I was scared. I could never get comfortable. Was always terrified I was going to exceed some limit bc all I had done was repeating these maneuvers. I flew a C150 which was apparently so easy to fly that these maneuvers almost fly themselves. I don't think I ever controlled heading at all during a power on stall. Just pitch up, the instructor would say "there's your first indication" (which I had no sense of). So during the check ride I just pulled up, waited a few seconds, said "there's my first indication" then pitched back down. I never felt any indication, I just blindly did the thing and passed. Almost everything I did was blindly following a process without really having any idea what I was doing or why I was doing it. When I eventually get a BFR, I hope to find an instructor that is personable that can teach me this stuff and help me integrate all this compartmentalized information into actual proficiency in daily flying.

[@FreePilotTraining]

I really appreciate this comment. It’s packed full of truth that no one talks about. I believe there is a HUGE knowledge gap between the stuff that is FORCED down your throat during preparation for the written exam, and then grooming for the checkride. My goal with this channel is to bridge the gap between ROTE knowledge and actual understanding, because understanding is the TRUE beginning of learning. You’ll notice that I started this channel by creating content that gives information to pass these exams, but I’ve changed my strategy, because I’m in the same position you are. I want to understand WHY so I can be safe. I do believe that 99% of the maneuvers are good for developing safe flying skills, but we need to keep asking WHY, and we are performing them and really get to the root of learning. I’m about to move to Alaska, but if I wasn’t. I’d fly with you. There are instructors that are just as passionate as me. Keep looking brother

[@michaelrsmall]

Its like everything FAA, once you get the certificate/license you put yourself in the field to get more experience And ultimately learn. As we always say its a license to learn.

[@FreePilotTraining]

@@michaelrsmall very true! It’s a license to learn!

[@jerryfrank3972]

Have you ever had advanced spin training?

[@daft4682]

@@jerryfrank3972 no. There was no spin training at all. Instructor tried to show me a spin one time but I never got a sense of "spinning" at all. Apparently it's very difficult to get a 150 to misbehave. Same with doing side slips and stuff for landing. I have no idea how/why on any of that. Not a clue. We "practiced" it a couple times but all it was is doing some odd control inputs that didn't really effect the landing at all. The entire process was not "learning to fly" it was "pretend to do this or that to check the box for the checkride". That's the main reason I stopped flying years ago - I didn't feel safe. If the airplane had ever done anything strange that didn't exactly match one of the exercises, I wouldn't have known what to do.

[@jameswebb2856]

I never heard of the “big lie” when I was instructing but I was instructing in the 1980’s. I always taught power on stalls the way you demonstrated in your video. One method I used to emphasize using rudder and aileron is to do an approach to landing stall and instead of recovering allow the aircraft to recover on its own creating a “falling leave” condition. I would then demonstrate using only rudder to keep the wings level and then only using aileron. After the demonstration I told the student that if either rudder or aileron alone can keep the wings level it make more sense to use both. I would also enter a spin and show how aileron movement in the direction of the spin increases the rotation of the spin and aileron in the opposite direction slowed the rotation proving that the ailerons were still effective even in a stall.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Yeah, I think it’s something kinda new that has been making it’s rounds, but as you might have noticed from the comments, it’s a real thing

[@mattm2382]

I very much appreciate they way you relate key aerodynamic principals in a very clear, concise and practical manner. Your demonstration of the principles in a practical manner greatly enhances the overall learning experience. Your perspective is thought provoking, refreshing and a great reminder to all aviators to never stop learning regardless of their experience level.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you so much! I think explaining it in this way gives students the absolute BEST understanding so they can master the maneuver much faster.

[@stephanygarcia5723]

I must have watched every one of your videos twice now and I swear by them!! I recommend you to everyone that will hear me speak. This was the last video I watched the night before my PPL checkride & I wanna say thank you for all your content man!! 🎉🎉 Keep it up & I can’t wait for an IFR playlist 😂

[@FreePilotTraining]

Awesome! You’re very welcome! That means a lot! I’ve got a few more videos to wrap up before I can start the IFR series, but I do intend on continuing!

[@BrentDanley]

It's great information. However, you focused a lot on directional stability, which is required by the ACS, but (mostly) unimportant in a real-world situation, which is the biggest problem with primary flight instruction. Also, and this is important, after you pitch up, you DO NOT need to wait for the airspeed to bleed off in order to induce a stall. A stall is about back pressure, not airspeed. I did like what you said about reduced effectiveness of the ailerons at high angles of attack, and how the wing stalls from the root outwards. I wouldn't advise a student to do this, but with an instructor if you set up for a power-off stall and don't recover, but instead simply maintain directional control while trying to maintain altitude, you'll enter into a descending mush, but still have a bit of aileron control. A high-wing Cessna simply does not want to stall, and it's good to understand how the plane flies in various configurations, speeds, attitudes, etc. The way to induce a full stall in this configuration is to apply full power, sending that big blast if air into the upturned elevator and exceeding the critical angle of attack. REAL stalls are super scary, which is why when it comes to teaching stall recovery, all these details are dangerous. Push the yoke forward! The elevator got you into this mess and is the only thing that can get you out of it. Push the yoke forward. Then add power or whatever you have to do. Stay level, for sure, but your heading in an emergency situation--and all stalls are an emergency--is not important. One would argue, and I would agree, that staying over the runway improves the chances of a non-fatal landing if the stall results in the loss of all altitude, but if someone is focused on their heading in the early stages of a stall at very low altitude, their instructor let them down. To the students here, a stall is not a normal maneuver. It's an emergency situation you must learn to recognize and recover from safely. So practice them, a lot. But once you get your certificate, don't take your friends up to impress them with your minimum-loss-of-altitude stall recoveries. Also, at some point soon read Stick and Rudder and The Killing Zone.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Excellent points. Thank you so much for the comment

[@walthodges6227]

13:07

[@scottmelsha3780]

This is the best video and complete explanation of how and why we do power on stalls very well done, great job! This will be shown to all my students going forward. Training videos don’t often go far enough in their explanations, this does!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks Scott! That was my goal with this video. I wanted to give my students a video to watch so we can just have a very brief discussion before we go out and fly

[@mojo7618]

I love your videos, instructions and the titles. Please don’t change

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you!

[@ProfPoindexter1968]

This "lie" got started in the early days of aviation, when airplanes all had straight wings that were really straight, without any structural changes to make the inner part of the wing stall first, and power was always marginal. In such conditions, use of rudder only for lateral control in a departure stall made sense.

[@FreePilotTraining]

You are probably right. I bet they didn’t have to maintain heading during their practice stalls back then.

[@KenMac-ui2vb]

I remember learning in my C150 and that thing was almost impossible to spin. Power on or Power off, the stalls seemed to gracefully round into level flight so easily. It was like a sailboat... God, I loved that little plane.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Great little planes!

[@speedomars]

My private checkride was given by a guy with 50 years of examiner experience. My so-called power-on stall was at half power (his demand) and the ailerons were PROHIBITED. Keeping the nose straight up to and into the stall must be done using rudder only. Neutral stick. Otherwise you can easily dip a wing and possibly enter a stall-spin.

[@FreePilotTraining]

That’s crazy because the ACS says no such thing in there!

[@speedomars]

@@FreePilotTraining Correct. Nor had I ever done the maneuver in training. I had to do it in front of him, and on the spot. He also had me fly under hood for part of the flight to test my ability to remember the instruments and orientation even though it was not an instrument check ride. I figured if I failed the checkride I had a pretty good set of excuses since none of that stuff was in the guidelines for a private pilot checkride.

[@andyfawcett4666]

My mantra (fwiw): Neutral ailerons, step on the Ball, Break the stall, Fly the plane! Do that faster than you can say it and you're likely ok.

[@jimmyfall9302]

Now that KZbin has made it impossible to skip ads, I’ll never watch your channel again

[@FreePilotTraining]

Dude, you can buy KZbin premium for $10 a month. Consider what it would cost you to buy a complete ground school like this. Around $300. For $10 a month, this opens up all my videos without ads and all of KZbin. These ads are how I can bring you this content for free

[@gratefulpilot]

I bought the premium and with all the great aviation content, totally worth the $10/month. Even with streaming fatigue that is hitting us all, it worth it if you are using KZbin for learning.

[@LTVoyager]

Funny, I learned to fly in 1977 and never heard this lie. I was taught to favor the rudder for control as the stall was approached, not because of any aileron bogeyman, but because of you are using the rudder to keep the wings level as the stall is imminent, you are more likely to keep using the rudder to keep the wings level as the nose drops and before the AOA is decreased enough and enough airspeed is available for the ailerons to become effective. This still makes sense to me and has worked well for nearly 50 years.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Yeah, thankfully, a lot of people haven’t heard of it, but a lot of people have. I’m amazed at how many different things are being taught these days

[@adi0malka]

This was the simplest explanation of what adverse yaw is that I’ve ever heard of

[@FreePilotTraining]

Awesome. I’m so glad you found that helpful

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

Try the worst that most avoid. "The Right Chandelle Stall". But do it with not enough rudder. Be ready to spin to the left, push, pedal, power off. You will spin mostly. Mild Maneuvering Stalls are for cowards that cant do spin training. Most crashes are Mild Maneuver Pilots making errors on HARD MANEUVERS they skipped due fear. And got Karma. You are a brave CFI.

[@stephencook2105]

Loss of speed awareness is the problem here. You should NEVER be in a position where you have to recover from a power on stall at low altitude.

[@FreePilotTraining]

That is so true

[@boydw1]

There's another point you missed - the down going aileron changes the mean chord line, which increases the effective angle of attack for that portion of the wing. So if you're right on the edge of a stall, trying to pick up a wing with aileron may cause a tip stall, even in co-ordinated flight.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Well, I didn’t miss it. This is why there is a twist in the wings. Lowering an aileron won’t cause that because the whole wing will stall before the wingtips. That’s why it’s designed that way

[@boydw1]

@@FreePilotTraining Lowering the aileron negates the effect of washout twist in that wing. Excessive aileron use near the point of stall can still cause a tip stall in the down-going aileron, despite washout designed into the wing.

[@wabuchanan]

@@FreePilotTraining There are Cessna's that have absolutely no dihedral, and absolutely no washout. Perfectly straight wings, and the whole wing stalls at once. Thus, why I use rudder only with neutral ailerons generally when practicing stalls. Those Cessnas are all older tailwheel aircraft, so rudder use is reflexive. But it does reinforce the principle of knowing your aircraft, the design parameters, and the aerodynamics of that aircraft. This also points out the danger of referring to "all" Cessnas in technical conversations. There was a whole generation of Cessnas whose flaps went to 50 degrees, and another subset whose flaps went to 60 degrees. All great topics of conversation when talking flying characteristics of Cessna aircraft.

[@toddalligood5891]

Thanks Josh.. checkride coming up and had a real problem with turning stalls last week. I was trying to roll out before breaking the stall as it turns out. Appreciate what you do!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Awesome! So glad I could help! Good luck on that checkride!

[@44hawk28]

It may sound like a minor point but people will understand it better if you talk about like the Euro cup, it did not have the ailerons and the Rudders tied together. They were coupled. We had a system on the f11 that I worked on, where when you were in take off and land configuration, you had an adverse your system that was built within the electronics of the aircraft to apply sideload through the rudder actuator. One of the problems, however, with the early 737 model, was that it did have yaw coupling. Because of that when they were descending from a very cold altitude and we're coming closer to the ground and they started to maneuver the aircraft they were sending warm or heated hydraulic fluid through a frozen Rudder actuator. And it would heat different parts of it at different rates and cause it to lock into one position or the other as a hard over. There was a way to fix it, and that was by increasing the load on the direction it was hard over but that is not a natural reaction. You usually trying to correct the rudder position. And that didn't work on that failure point. There were five total crashes, I believe, that were caused by that Rudder actuator failure. At least by my knowledge and I was involved in notifying them of what I believed to be occurring and upon discussion I had come to the conclusion that by the time of the Pennsylvania crash, I had determined that it was the rudder actuator that was the root of the problem. It just took them a while to figure out what was the origin of the problem. So I do agree that I don't know why you wouldn't use ailerons because even if you were having a stall during takeoff you're going to put a little on in it as a mechanism because the aircraft is not going to want to go straight because it's got rotational forces being caused by the torque of the engine and propeller. You can't fail to use aileron. If you don't use ailerons you're bound to go into a spin.

[@gratefulpilot]

I agree, aileron is helpful in this maneuver. Just stay coordinated and reset if you get uncoordinated. Power on stalls were the most difficult maneuver for me in my PPL training. The safety that makes a great trainer also makes power on stalls, full break with full power, something you have to work for and where you can easily get uncoordinated. I definitely need to go practice these again and am now really going to pay attention to my aileron usage. My CFI didn’t discourage using aileron in stalls, but definitely emphasized rudder. For the students reading, I found it helpful to do partial power and work up to full power, full break with my CFI. My DPE did want a full break, but allowed reduced power during the check ride, which made it much easier in the Warrior. IMHO it is also realistic as it can simulate accidentally not putting in full throttle during take-off, or perhaps hot, high takeoff performance. Thanks for the continued great content! Very helpful you related it to the broom balancing on a finger, too! That kind of example of a complex subject is helpful and will keep people watching for sure!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you for the comment! I really appreciate it. I never considered starting at a reduced power setting and working your way up. Great tip!

[@skytruckdriver4498]

I think a better title would have been, “why staying coordinated in a stall and slow flight is so critical” I was never told don’t use ailerons I was taught to stay coordinated. I 100% agree with your mantra of staying coordinated should keep you safe, but this is pretty specific to a clean configuration. I know you addressed flaps briefly but, Another real world scenario for power- on stalls is during a go around/missed approach, which you’re going to be in a landing configuration. With ground contact imminent. Application of flaps can have effects on the wash out stall characteristics of the wing, mainly you could actually develop a tip stall as opposed to a root stall first. Which is going to make use of ailerons sketchy. And during the application of power, even in something like a 172 you’re gonna get some left turning tendencies which people tend to try and correct with ailerons without enough rudder. This is also pretty specific to Cessnas or similar training type aircraft, which I totally understand is your target audience. However other types of aircraft can have radically different aerodynamic characteristics that make the stall fairly terrifying, anyone who has flown beavers or otters can attest to this. In my experience training inexperienced or new pilots is that they tend to use too much aileron with not enough rudder and get uncoordinated relatively easy. Especially if they have primarily been flying nice stable platforms like the 172. It’s cool to geek out on some physics and see an engaging conversation!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Very true. Thank you so much for this comment!

[@arturoeugster7228]

The primary reason is the landing on a soft field, where the FAA requirement is to execute a full stall power on landing, with the option to abort based on a condition not expected, like the ever present gopher holes in grass fields rarely used, Example landing in the glider field in Tehachipi, when the gliders are lined up waiting to be towed with the Piper Pawnee ,on the paved runway and your safe choice is to use the grass field, with a moderate crosswind, requiring a slip to land and to take off if necessary before yawing into the wind at some time, to make sure you are not drifting into the active runway where a Pawnee is concentrating on staying on centerline for the glider pilot in tow, airborne before the towplane.

[@prodigalpilot]

I’ve got a problem with the spin section on the airplane flying handbook. While it’s technically true that both a side slip and skid(yaw) can produce a spin during a stall, these are not one in the same. A skidding stall will quickly develop into a spin, a slipping stall, in anything but a competition aerobatic airplane, is very benign. The cross-controlled inputs for the slip would have to be held for a SIGNIFICANT amount of time in order for the airplane to go “over the top” into a spin. While the book isn’t wrong, it also has contributed to generations of pilots afraid of slips, particularly on approach. Can’t tell you how many fellow pilots I have had in the champ that start to panic when I slip on final.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Yes, yaw is the key. You must have at least one stalled wing and a yaw. Whether it’s a slip or skid, that doesn’t matter

[@prodigalpilot]

@@FreePilotTraining While both a slip and a skid can produce a spin, a skid is much more dangerous. Wonder what your thoughts are on the adage to never be cross-controlled or uncoordinated near the ground. I think the last couple generations of flight instructors have really pounded on this, but results in folks being afraid of the slip, which is perfectly safe. Thanks for the video.

[@FreePilotTraining]

@@prodigalpilot so, I love the slip. I’ve always been very aggressive in the slip. Especially in Cherokees. I scared the crap out of myself the other day though when I blanked out the tail for the first time with a student. I had an extreme right to left quartering tailwind, so I believe this was the issue, but i was carrying additional airspeed and I was flaps up, so I didn’t think there was any danger of this at all. Im still not afraid to slip, but i definitely gained a little more respect for the cross controlled stall. However, the real danger is not a slip, but a skid as you mentioned and you done messed up if you’re skidding the airplane.

[@cassiustedesco8728]

Your videos are amazing!! thanks for making great content! i love your channel.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you! That means a lot!

[@InfinityMW2]

Thanks for the insight Josh, I will be starting my training for my PPL in the fall and am trying to absorb as much info as possible. Your videos have been a good supplement to the books I have been reading.

[@FreePilotTraining]

You’re welcome!

[@krautyvonlederhosen]

Having never flown an aircraft with an abundance of power, I never truly experienced a major power on stall until I began to fly giant scale radio control aircraft. Yikes, the plane would snap faster than you could possibly react to it. It actually taught many things I never mastered flying 150s or 172s. I carried my training with me into remote control flying, but now aerodynamics make so much more sense. It makes for a good perspective. I’d fly what I used to but ain’t got the dinero to do so.

[@FreePilotTraining]

It’s amazing the things you can learn from experience

[@clarkstonguy1065]

I flew RC for 20 years before getting my Private. I had a one-way runway at home with trees at the end and a bit of downslope. And, I must admit I cartwheeled more than one aircraft down that runway coming in on the edge of a stall. I was kind of excited to see what a stall in a full scale aircraft looked and felt like. When the instructor demonstrated the first one I was in shock, I was like THAT was it?!

[@flutetubamorg]

I prefer to use a nice cloud in the horizon to line up on than a compass heading. VFR stall, keep your head up!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Very true! I do that all the time!

[@clarkstonguy1065]

I pretty much agree with everything presented. However, back in the day we had to demonstrate slow fight for as long as the examiner wanted. By slow flight I mean slow enough that the stall warning was continuously on, but not so slow that the airplane actually stalled. That was maybe a five knot window to operate in, maintaining altitude and heading while operating on the back-end of the power curve. With the Piper cherokees I trained in it was possible to creep very deep into the negative portion of the power curve, by which I mean the part where it takes a lot of power to keep going just a little bit slower. So lots of airflow over the wing roots, flying below the power off stall speed. That is the condition where I remember really being lectured about using the rudder and not trusting the ailerons.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Yes. Rudder is more effective than ailerons at low airspeeds, but the left turning tendencies are also greater. You still steer with ailerons at slow airspeed, but it’s even more important (and difficult) to stay coordinated. Thanks for the comment

[@cyberfiche]

Love these videos! Especially the light humor! Keep 'em comin!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks John! I appreciate that! I will!

[@contessa.adella]

A reduced incidence at the wing tip to reduce tip stalling is called ‘Washout’. All of these procedures are known to RC flyers too (I’m not talking foam and plastic toys). I warped some washout into my seven foot tail dragger and all its straight line stalls were clean with or without flap. For interest many years ago I had a Bipe that refused to make a nice flat spin, it always dropped into a deep spiral UNTIL I learnt to induce the spin inverted, then it came down as pretty as a Sycamore seed….Recover was admittedly a bit pucker inducing…but remember flying RC you have no stall horn or buffeting, its all done by eye and experience at distance….

[@FreePilotTraining]

That’s cool! Thanks for the comment

[@arturoeugster7228]

At a high nose up attitude with power on the propeller flow is asymmetric, pushing the nose to the left, called P-factor, which requires right rudder deflection, long before stall , As long as the nose is moving, yawning to the left, application of right rudder will in the stall NOT result in a spin. Only applying LEFT rudder in a weak left yaw will enter a spin .

[@FreePilotTraining]

This has been my experience. Most airplanes are actually kinda difficult to spin

[@ronsflightsimlab9512]

Best thing I've seen yet! I'm going to use a ton of this for my ride and with my students. Thanks Josh!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks Ron! I appreciate that

[@bloxpert2373]

Stalls are in my next flight lesson. I feel more confident that I won't spin the plane after watching this. Noting the comments about the aft-CG influencing spins.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Awesome! Glad I could help

[@eb1138]

My first power on stall demo by my instructor went into a spin. I thought it was a departure stall. Freaked me out. Almost quit lessons.

[@FreePilotTraining]

😆 my first lessons on stalls were not my favorite either! Fortunately, we didnt spin! Must’ve been horrifying!

[@mindypaulson4303]

I would encourage you to practice turning stalls in very uncoordinated conditions. We teach stalls in a very sterile unrealistic condition. I often make my students put their heads down and I turn unusual attitude recovery into full stalls in dirty, uncoordinated conditions, for an even greater learning experience, do them under the hood

[@FreePilotTraining]

I like your ideas for stalls to enter an unusual attitude. I’m not super excited about intentionally being uncoordinated during a stall though unless I’m intentionally trying to spin

[@mindypaulson4303]

@@FreePilotTraining I will admit I spent years as an aerobatic instructor so I have done spins in every configuration. Top side entry, bottom side entry, inverted, power on flat spins. If you do enough esoteric stalls you will eventually start whip stalling Aircraft. If you have never entered a whip stall the recovery will be dangerous because it is not the same recovery used in power on or power off stalls. As a 30 year instructor, I have determined that pilots are killing themselves from cfit and the stall spin accident. As a mountain flying instructor, I believe that the stall spin accident is often precipitated out of a last ditch effort to avoid terrain. Practice canyon turns and the impossible return after takeoff to hone your skills. I wish you all the best in your teaching. Teach them well so they can bring themselves and their loved ones home safe. I have a lifetime of training that I will share with you for free. Contact me anytime. Eph 40:31

[@PhoenixA380]

After all, not all airplanes are designed the same, so have this in mind and do not rely on good aircraft design to prevent asymmetric stall or aileron reversal. P.S. Asymmetric stall is not necessary spin. FAA has a few pretty good free books on these subject covering the basics - very useful for student pilots.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Yes, it’s important to know your airplane

[@warren5699]

I'm not sure why you are saying the FAA doesn't want you to use ailerons in the maneuver. They say that power-on stall recoveries are practiced from straight climb and climbing turns to simulate the normal and turning maneuvers during departures. And they say that "continual adjustments should be made to aileron pressure, elevator pressure, and rudder pressure to maintain coordinated flight while holding the attitude until the full stall occurs", simulating what a pilot should always be doing at all times during the flight. The recovery is another thing where the pilot may mistakenly think that wing bank recovery (aileron/rudder) is more important than AOA recovery (elevator) and do the recovery in the wrong sequence.

[@FreePilotTraining]

No, the FAA doesn’t say that. There are some instructors who have said that. I have heard it multiple times

[@warren5699]

@@FreePilotTraining That's not good. Thanks for reviewing the sequence on the stall recovery (pitch then bank). That is frequently misunderstood.

[@SoloPilot6]

The fable probably stems from instructors demonstrating loss of aileron authority, and telling students to use the rudder. It's not far from there to "don't use ailerons." My first instructor said "don't EXPECT ailerons. If they are working for you, great, but they probably won't do much."

[@FreePilotTraining]

Excellent point! Thanks for the comment!

[@Taurus378]

crucial authority elements to bear in mind in critical VMCA flying conditions ! thanx. you probably save lives sharing this !

[@FreePilotTraining]

That is a fact! Thank you so much!

[@nostradamus7648]

As an aviation noob, my first requirement for stall training is to do it near a large, flat open field.

[@piedralite]

Joah, Most of the corrections you are preforming with the ailerons in your power stalls are due to the engine torque, not to the adverse jaw You see when the propeller turns in one direction at full power, the plane reacts to the opposite direction with all those horse power involved. Something new to consider Ha.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks for the comment! That’s very true. I think i briefly mentioned that when I was talking about the turning stall

[@mikepolit1726]

I agree with you to a point. Your method is strictly teaching the power on stall? For passing the check ride? however, it’s not bringing into the effect of the consequences of the stall. If you enter a stall at a low level, and then the airplane enters a spin, ailrones are not gonna save you. Especially a departure stall, low level. It’s all Rutter work. When I’m teaching stalls, I immediately go into spin awareness. This is where falling leaves are an eye-opener. Each one wing drops you fix it with opposite Rutter. The student is taught how to fix the spin before it even thinks about it. I not saying that you’re wrong, I just really like to emphasize the possibility of a spins when we’re talking about stalls, especially when we’re talking about situations of low level.

[@FreePilotTraining]

I see your point, but here’s my thoughts on that. We don’t teach students to steer with the rudder on a takeoff which is when you would typically see a “takeoff stall” or a “power off stall.” So why would we teach them to steer with the rudder only when we’re practicing takeoff stalls? That has never made sense to me

[@briand4000]

As the airplane gets slower, the rudder becomes more and more vital. Slow flight "walking the rudder" practice....nudge the nose left and right while in level flight at MCA, trains the feet. I wish there were more taildragger opportunities out there. Flying them teaches rudder control in a big way. Basic aerobatic training is also a very good idea for aspiring pilots. It gets rid of the fear of spins.

[@FreePilotTraining]

💯 agree. We got to do a lot of aerobatics in AF pilot training. It made a huge difference

[@MasterCarguy44-pk2dq]

​@@FreePilotTrainingAF training?

[@MasterCarguy44-pk2dq]

Aren't we not supposed to use rudder in slow under 85kts turns whether landing or TO? I was taught rudder neutral in TO or landing pattern turns because the rubber will cause nose slip/yaw.

[@dath1974]

First, let me qualify this, I'm not a CFI and just expressing some thoughts/opinions... It seems like many (most?) of us practice this maneuver for a checkride in a somewhat unrealistic way. During the climbing portion, we apply back pressure to climb. When departing in actual, more often than not, trim is set for the desired pitch/airspeed, if not perfectly, at least at least close. This seems a likely spot for problems/task saturation/distraction to creep in and if setup like this, relaxing the backpressure (as many of us are taught) won't be enough, we will actually need to push to break the stall and recover. I also think (over) trimming the climb and training to push at an impending stall in this situation would also reinforce the same need in the event of an engine failure on departure. Opinions?

[@FreePilotTraining]

I’m 50/50 on this. The ACS used to say that you had to perform stalls with “minimum altitude loss,” so you’d have to ride the edge of the stall, but they changed that because people were getting themselves into a secondary stall or an aggravated stall. Because of that, breaking the stall and being intentional when doing so is key. I still use the mantra max relax roll because it rhymes, but breaking the stall is key

[@echoproductions098]

Just found this channel and love the videos! Easily the most comprehensive instructional videos I've seen, I appreciate how you dig into all sorts of misconceptions and anticipate and explain questions a watching student might have. Keep up the good work!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you! Welcome to the channel!

[@SuperEddietv]

Turning, power on stall for commercial checkride, guaranteed. I am re-visting this after 30 years. YeeHaw!!

[@FreePilotTraining]

More than likely!

[@SoloRenegade]

here's a problem with your argument. Yes, the C172 and many others have aerodynamic or geometric wing twist, and even other features like wing cuffs to prevent the tips from stalling first. HOWEVER......this is Not true for ALL aircraft. many aircraft have No such design features. And some, even if they have a design feature, by deflecting the aileron, you can overcome this meager wing twist and cause the wingtip on that side to stall prematurely before the inboard section of the wing. And since you are training pilots to fly ANY aircraft within the limits of their license, you need to train them accordingly. If you teach them bad habits now, they will be difficult to overcome, or deadly, when they transition to less forgiving designs later on in their flying career (or recreational flying). So while I get what you are saying, and it might be true for some training airplanes, it should NOT be taught this way. Few pilots have a good enough grasp on aerodynamics as it is. And a Lot of airplanes out there lack such engineering design features of a docile trainer. You need to think beyond the training environment, and realize that you could be setting people up for failure later on. You are correct that use of aileron is Not prohibited, just to exercise caution in using them, as it can result in a stall/spin, or a premature stall on one wingtip before the rest of the wing stalls. And yes, turning stalls are done in training/practice. I flew a C182RG that would spin during power on/off stalls if you used aileron as you approached/entered the stall. Even if it was out of trim to cause this (as we had 2 other 182RGs in our fleet that behaved differently), it is a very real risk that can happen unexpectedly. Also, the elevator and rudder are both designed to have authority even after the stall. The airplane would be unsafe to fly if it didn't. I'm saying this as both a CFII and as a Mechanical and Aerospace Engineer.

[@FreePilotTraining]

This is why you need to KNOW the airplane you are flying. You make an excellent point, BUT when will a pilot be intentionally be inducing a stall WHILe attempting to maintain heading within 10 degrees? I would say that the only time would be during training. If you accidentally stall, no one cares about your heading. You’re going to be using ailerons up until that point anyway because you failed to recognize the impending stall which is when you should have fixed the problem. With that in mind, during training, 9 times out of 10, you will be in a training aircraft. As stated in the airplane flying handbook, MOST straight wing aircraft are intentionally designed with these features. This includes most older airplanes. If you are learning to fly the wright brothers flyer, this is something important for the CFI to brief. Ive flown a lot of planes that seemed like they wanted to spin because the wing dropped, but in reality, that happened because I wasn’t coordinated. Not because I used aileron. As stated in the video, you need 2 things to spin. 1. A stall on at least one wing and 2. A yawing motion. You MUST have both to spin.

[@SoloRenegade]

@@FreePilotTraining "You make an excellent point, BUT when will a pilot be intentionally be inducing a stall WHILE attempting to maintain heading within 10 degrees? I would say that the only time would be during training. If you accidentally stall, no one cares about your heading. You’re going to be using ailerons up until that point anyway because you failed to recognize the impending stall which is when you should have fixed the problem. " I never once said anything about maintaining heading during any of this. The fact is, that in real life, the stall will happen unexpectedly, unlike the training environment, and having the correct responses drilled into them so they react instinctively and quickly in the appropriate way is what matters. teach them the techniques that are never wrong, no matter what they are flying. By the time I got my first paid job flying, I held 6 Instructor ratings, 14 total FAA certificates, and had flown 14 different aircraft in multiple categories to complete all of that training. And then as a paid CFI I was flying up to 4 different aircraft per day, and we had multiple of each type and each had its own personality (for example we only had one C172 we could even get to enter a fully developed spin, so it was the designated spin trainer). You have to be able to take one set of skills to multiple airframes. With different aircraft you might do different things, but the core skills should be correct regardless what you are flying. Now I'm designing and building Experimental airplanes. and Experimental airplanes have vastly different personalities and wider range of flying characteristics compared to certified airplanes. And with experimental airplanes dominating light GA airplanes these days.... "As stated in the airplane flying handbook, MOST straight wing aircraft are intentionally designed with these features. This includes most older airplanes." this is not true. a great many aircraft have literally NO such features, as the wings are easier to design and manufacture. A great many experimental, homebuilt, ultralights, and vintage aircraft do NOT have these design features at all. A typical certified plane built after the Cessna150 & Cherokee140 era likely do, but even then some do not for various design/mission reasons. The FAA handbooks are not always 100% correct. I've found a great many errors over the years. And I highly doubt an Aerospace Engineer wrote the books. "If flown a lot of planes that seemed like they wanted to spin because the wing dropped, but in reality, that happened because I wasn’t coordinated. " and you're not wrong, coordinated flight is the key, ailerons or not. but using too much aileron at the wrong time CAN stall the tip of the wing in certain aircraft. Most pilots will not know which aircraft will/wont. The C182RG I mentioned, it was full on spinning to the right every time. I was doing a CFI add-on checkride when it happened too. I stopped the spin in less than 1/4 turn. And so we ended up doing it about 5 times, experimenting with rudder and aileron inputs/reactions. I ended up passing as I was doing everything correctly, and we deduced it was something with the airplane itself. But a random pilot flying that airplane would not have expected it to do that. My current Cessna 150 I own, a very old one, is a baby in the stall at 0-20deg flaps, so docile and easy. But at full flaps (40deg) she snaps and tries to roll right in the stall. the stall happens suddenly without warning and she drops the right wing immediately and aggressively. Knowing this influences how I fly the plane. coincidentally she lands best at 20deg flaps anyways, and so I only reserve 40deg for particularly steep approaches and short airstrips, and typically reduce to 20 prior to the flare (manual flaps are nice for this). "As stated in the video, you need 2 things to spin. 1. A stall on at least one wing and 2. A yawing motion. You MUST have both to spin." I know what a spin is and how it works. As stated, I too am a CFII, as well as a practicing Aerospace engineer actively designing airplanes. Keep in mind a typical new pilot who is rudder lazy from training in a Cessna/Piper not imputing rudder properly with aileron, adds aileron to hold wings level, and in that moment stalls the One wing which then induces a yaw in that same direction, and suddenly they are in a stall/spin. A lot of new and PVT pilots are not coordinated and very rudder lazy, partially as a result of training airplanes designed to let them get away with being lazy on the rudder. I know as I've trained in both Pipers and Cessnas and wasn't good on the rudder either until getting my tailwheel endorsement, in a vintage airplane with no aerodynamic features to make things easy no less (partially because the airplane was also capable of entry level aerobatics).

[@ericsd55]

@@SoloRenegade I agree with you totally. Wolfgang would approve. :)

[@ShahryarSaigol]

If you want to learn how the Ercoupe took care of left turning tendency and cross wind landings, reaf Wolfgang Langeweische's Stick and Rudder. Also it is "Rudder" not rudders. This Cessna has only one rudder.

[@FreePilotTraining]

I need to read that book. I’ve heard some great things about it

[@blazingspur3323]

Awesome! Mastering these manu. have been “holding me back” from my check ride… uggg! Thanks!

[@FreePilotTraining]

No problem! Let me know if this video helps you

[@joshbanta2552]

PA. VII.C.S7 Acknowledge cues of the impending stall and then recover promptly after a full stall occurs. At 18:00 you state to recover at the first sign of an impending stall and allowing the stall to occur could result in disapproval. The ACS states otherwise.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Yes. I totally agree with this statement. At 18:00 I said you “may be asked to recover on the first indication.” This is more likely on the commercial checkride

[@110knotscfii]

Wing washout. Except when you effectively change the shape of the wing using aileron.

[@traiviator]

That's some investigative journalism right there

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you! When I get frustrated because something doesn’t add up, I go into research mode

[@tankbootone]

Great stuff Josh best tip yet for me..Can't wait to go out to put this to test. I REALLY enjoy your stuff since i just bought my first 172k it's been Great.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks Alan! That means a lot! Let me know how it goes in the ol Skyhawk!

[@mikem-mf8ph]

amazing video for student pilots learning. thanks!

[@FreePilotTraining]

You’re welcome

[@benzambalis]

Hey Josh, love the videos. I had a off topic question? What type of flying eye glasses do you wear and what type of lenses as well. I'm thinking on getting some and wanted to hear what you thought about them. Thank you.

[@FreePilotTraining]

They are the Ospreys with the Sapphire blue lenses. There’s a link in the description and you can use the coupon code FREEPILOTTRAINING for 10% off if that interests you at all.

[@daft4682]

I got through check ride and still have no idea why we did most of those maneuvers. I still don't know what a power on stall even is. I just knew how to do the maneuver. Same with slow flight. When I tried to ask my instructor she was basically unwilling to go any deeper. In my mind, the check points of the check ride and actually going flying are completely separate.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Every maneuver has a purpose. Unfortunately, if your instructor is not willing to answer you, they don’t know. Keep searching! The answer is there. The airplane flying handbook has some great information in there you will definitely find interesting

[@FPVREVIEWS]

you can get away with lots of habits which are fundamentally wrong when you are flying a dumbed down aircraft which has been designed to forgive those bad habits. but fly a high performance, experimental, etc. aircraft, and they WILL bite. Some aircraft are even designed to not forgive mistakes, for training purposes such as the T-6. And those who take their habits for granted at low altitude, can very easy find themselves angered into the ground. for instance, the altitude for stall/spain training for the T-6 is 10,000 feet. and you can absolutely snap it inverted by using aileron to try to maintain roll level. please be careful what you teach pilots, especially taking into consideration that they will be going on to fly planes which are not a Cessna 172.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Which T-6 are you referring to? The Texan II? I have my share of hours in that 1,100 hp beast….spins are practiced at high altitudes in that aircraft due to propeller limitations. No other reason

[@freecitizen7372]

I wish my flight instructor had explained this to me before I put the plane into a rolling spin. Instead they explained how to handle a power on stall with a turn afterwards.

[@FreePilotTraining]

That’s why I made this video

[@n7565j]

Back in the 90's when I did my training my instructor carried a 5/16 dowel rod and would smack my knuckles if I touched the yoke during a stall ;-) He was an old Vietnam pilot who knew his stuff but was a bit strict... My check istructor actually made me land on a grass strip, a 2000' grass strip, in the mountains of western NC which I hadn't prepared for. We didn't die and he passed me so I guess I did ok ;-) Interesting theories!!!

[@FreePilotTraining]

This raises a great point. You can absolutely steer the aircraft at high angles of attack with the rudder. Using the controls together is way easier to maintain a heading and stay coordinated though. But in reality, if I stall, I couldn’t care less about my heading

[@The_thrown]

Today you just gained another subscriber!

[@FreePilotTraining]

Awesome! Welcome!

[@mytech6779]

13:30 the AFH is flat wrong. A spin will never initiate with slip.They will only occur with skid.

[@FreePilotTraining]

So, I actually don’t believe that. I actually got myself into a cross controlled stall for the first time ever the other day out of a slip and it scared the crap out of me. It was a really strong crosswind, so the tail was blanked out on the Cherokee, but i definitely would have spun if I had not broken the stall immediately. However, you are WAY more likely to spin with a skid though. I do appreciate this comment

[@JamesGarcia-de3pv]

I think he is correct. Always had to laugh at what someone finally called out a lie.

[@Stumpchunkman226]

Great info and great entertainment value. Thank you for these!

[@FreePilotTraining]

You’re welcome! I appreciate the comment!

[@383mazda]

Im about to solo in a 172, my CFI told me to use ailerons to keep wings level and rudder to keep the nose pointed straight wheen building up to a stall. So far i haven't spun...

[@FreePilotTraining]

Good! Yeah, you’ll be fine

[@KevinSmithAviation]

Excellent video Josh. I appreciate you diving into this. I like many have been taught the same about the ailerons. Thank you for clearing this up and showing the data to back this up. You rock my friend. Keep up the excellent work. Safe skies 🇺🇸🛩️

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks Kevin!

[@herestoyou4562]

another legendary video from Josh

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you so much!

[@davidwright9092]

I was told this too in my later stage of training but ended up being forced to use my ailerons just to keep direction anyways. However, my first instructor didn’t tell me any of this or the purpose of the stall and every time he demonstrated the maneuver we spun to the left. So I did the maneuver many times the same way. Kinda disturbed me for a while until I got used to the spin. I’m very interested to hear what you would have to say about how this CFI could make such a mistake and what was his motive for teaching me the wrong way. Keep in mind this was only our second flight lesson together way back in the beginning before I knew anything. After learning the right way I can’t stop thinking about why lol

[@FreePilotTraining]

I can almost guarantee that your CFI is a “no aileron” guy. When you use only rudders, they are effective but you can’t maintain heading AND keep the wings level with them. The rudders are capable of both, but not both at the same time. I bet he was maintaining his heading and the wing dropped on him, if he would’ve used rudder to pick up the wing, it would’ve worked, but he would’ve got off his heading. That’s why I hate that method.

[@markor2476]

​@@FreePilotTrainingThe more I think about this the more I realize how badly coordinated flight is taught and it's only after going through the MEP course that some things clicked for me since there you must achieve coordination if you want to keep Vmca as low as possible. It's just an area that's really poorly understood but you should expand upon your broomstick analogy, I thought that was really great and gave me lots to think about.

[@FreePilotTraining]

@@markor2476 thanks Marco! That’s exactly what we’re doing with ALL the flight controls. we are literally balancing the aircraft on those axis’s

[@ahashdahnagila6884]

​@@FreePilotTraining "Axes"... plural of axis (...or a boatload of Vikings swinging their weapons) Just messing with you, man.

[@FreePilotTraining]

@@ahashdahnagila6884 😂 I knew how to say it, but I couldn’t remember how to spell it, so laziness kicked in 😂

[@tm-uz7md]

Student pilots usually have a very poor understanding of complex aerodynamic subtleties. This video confirms the complexities and students cannot be expected to grasp this in flight because it cannot be performed the hundreds of times necessary to install muscle memory. For this reason we must perform power on stalls in a simulator, and one that is specific to the plane being flown because aerodynamics vary between types. Not to mention that power on stalls are frightening. This response is also experienced in scuba when your oxygen is depleted at depth. Panic is universal until it has been practiced HUNDREDS of times so that muscle memory and confidence is instilled. There is no time to think. The downside of a simulator is cost at $300 an hour. But safety is paramount.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Actually, simulators are usually cheaper. But stalls are best practiced in the aircraft where you learn to FEEL the impending stall. We’re teaching students to recognize when they’re getting close so they fix the problem

[@SiameseCheese]

thank you, you really helped me for my flight training

[@FreePilotTraining]

You’re welcome!

[@wncwashpro]

Can you drop the link to the document in the comments or put in your description so we can download and print?

[@FreePilotTraining]

Here you go: www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/training_testing/testing/acs/private_airplane_acs_change_1.pdf

[@110knotscfii]

No. Aileron changes the cord of that section of wing. Lifting a wing increases the AOA of that section of that wing causing that wing to stall more deeply. If you correct for a left bank, here comes the stall. No matter how much rudder you use. Now. This applies to the stall. Not before or just after the stall. Don’t believe me? I’ll take you flying.

[@FreePilotTraining]

I’m pretty sure we’re saying the same thing. You won’t stall from aileron useage, but it can definitely aggravate the stall after the stall has occurred

[@jwald6795]

and that is why you are taught to use rudder. Muscle memory thing. If your used to using ailerons you will probably use them in the stall. Bad @@FreePilotTraining

[@Mike-ff7ib]

I recommend the finer points cfi for accurate instruction. This video complicates the topic.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Well, to be honest, it’s a complicated topic. I do appreciate feedback like this though

[@NRB-mb7jc]

GREAT video. Love it. Any chance you would created a video on accelerated stalls?

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you! I plan on making one eventually, but it might be a while. I’ve got so many things going at the moment

[@cduemig1]

Two questions: In a power on stall isn’t the airflow from the prop making the wing root AOA vs relative wind lower meaning it it’s stall speed vs the wing tip would be a lot closer? Wouldn’t this also indicate ailerons could force a stalled wing more than a power off stall? In the full recovery the stall horn was still on for several seconds. I got hit on my stage check for the stall horn being on still like yours but I pitched down but tried not to pitch down too aggressively to prevent flying into an obstacle or losing too much altitude. I need to check my airplane as I could still be mushing down but do you think a more aggressive release of back pressure is warranted or snap down to level and let the speed build?

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks for the questions. Relative wind from the prop is very minimal in a Cessna. There are some airplanes that create more relative wind by placing the props directly in front of the airfoil. The C-130 is an example of an aircraft that uses this design. This “blown wing” design can increase lift by 60 percent on the C130 because it’s so powerful. As far as the stall horn goes, the horn DOES NOT indicate a stall. The horn on a Cessna sounds 5-10 miles per hour above stall in all configurations. This indicates an “impending stall,” not a full stall. The FAA used to keep you right on the edge of a stall during recovery, but this method has gone away, but you will get the maximum performance out of your airplane if you hug the critical angle of attack following a stall.

[@alk672]

I wonder why nobody briefs spin recovery procedure as part of the pre-maneuver checklist when doing power-on stalls. It's fairly easy to spin, youtube is full of videos of student pilots spinning off of this.

[@FreePilotTraining]

You really should pre-brief spins. Excellent point

[@shyammohabir8283]

I'm a bit confused by this statement "Rudder affected by slow airspeed" - but isn't rudder your best friend to maintain center line durring landing? Rudder effectiveness increases with aircraft speed. Thus, at slow speed, large rudder input may be required to achieve the desired results.

[@FreePilotTraining]

You have less wind going over the rudder at slow airspeeds. It’s still effective but the it’s not as effective as at high airspeeds

[@channelclosed4037]

I really struggle with slow flight bro!! Can you please bring a video out on slow flight

[@FreePilotTraining]

I am slowly trying to tackle the videos on all these maneuvers. Hopefully i can work on that one soon

[@mojo7618]

First comment, love your videos and the music is epic

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thanks! That means a lot!

[@jazzman5598]

Awesome vid. Thanks! By The Way when I started flying in 94’ I think I remember one of my teachers say that the year or two prior, the FAA required actual Spin Recovery skills. Is it still not a requirement? Thanks 👍👍👍

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you! It’s not required any more. I guess too many pilots weren’t surviving the spin training lol. Probably not, but it makes for a good joke

[@sporBore]

Thanks a bunch for making this video. I was always using ailerons when doing stalls and not even realizing it, and I was doing them fine. Then I started hearing that I shouldn't be using them? Next time I am out doing maneuvers it felt impossible to do a power on stall without using ailerons, and simultaneously maintain heading. When only using rudder, the plane was coordinated but it wanted to turn without the ailerons.

[@FreePilotTraining]

You’re welcome! I know, it’s basically impossible to maintain heading and stay coordinated with rudder only. That’s why I hate that method

[@jimmydulin928]

@@FreePilotTraining It's not your fault, Josh, but ACS isolates and accepts only their technique for each individual maneuver. The safety purpose of slow flight and stall practice at altitude is to get students comfortable with the gaits in Wolfgang's terms of the landing approach and limits of control response with low relative wind. If we teach the purpose of stalls is to recover during maneuvering flight, as in the pattern, we are setting our student's up for a fatal type of failure. Your ACS valid technique for performing takeoff stalls is fine for performing takeoff stalls. It makes it tough for us old guys to still emphasize not using the steering wheel at all on short final. We don't want to turn. While a turn might be fine up high in stall practice, adverse yaw, the nose going the wrong way initially in so called coordinated turns, is the most distractive thing that can happen to a student trying to stay longitudinally aligned with the centerline on short final. And if we are dynamic and proactive with our rudder movement, neither P factor nor gyroscopic precession nor gust spread overcomes our insistence on keeping the target bracketed between our legs. The purity of control, the primacy of control, has to do with where the control is mounted. Think about it.

[@jamescaley9942]

Heading is not the priority, the piority is control authority and not losing it.. Otherwise you may become a passenger in an unguided missile.

[@FreePilotTraining]

@@jamescaley9942 in a real life situation that is a fact.

[@crawford323]

What surprises me about the glossing over to flat out ignoring the fact the horizontal stabilizer stalls first and that is the stall break you feel.

[@FreePilotTraining]

That’s an interesting perspective. I’ve never heard that before

[@crawford323]

@@FreePilotTraining The horizontal is set at an angle of incidence whereby it stalls soon than the main wing never allowing a deep stall to occur. The area of pressure Travel produces a negative pitching moment where by the horizontal stabilizer and elevator must counter with as much as 10% of down force to keep the main wing from tucking. When operating in a pitched up fashion, the elevator is pulling down on the fuselage and at an AOA set to be greater than the main wing fully stalled, it does so lowering the nose. This is why the phugoid longitudinal stability functions. I was flying a piper Pawnee once and fairly unfamiliar with the bird and the tail would certainly warn you, it was about to take a break. It would nibble and the stick would shake. Now conversely on laminar flow wings, when the main wings let's go it can be rapid. there may be little or no warning from the wing, tail or otherwise. So many of these fast glass birds are augering in within sight of the airport trying to stretch a glide. I love Hersey bar wings. If you get hurt in a Cessna 172 gosh maybe you didn't need to be up there in the first place. They fly slow and they "can" crash slow and crashing slow is important. It's a bit of fun and educational research to learn about the function of a horizontal stabilizer.

[@gobanshee1]

Hey Josh. Just came in to say that I've never trained to omit aileron in stall practice; ailerons are how I've maintained heading, and *super* vigilant of coordination. Yes, I've had a wing start to drop, and picked it up with rudder, but was never afraid that I'd roll over from using aileron. Cheers, and love your informative videos.

[@FreePilotTraining]

Thank you for saying that! It’s great to hear other people using this technique!

[@arturoeugster7228]

By the way, the Cessna 172 has larger ailerons than flaps, there , with medium flaps there is no danger that the ailerons will stall with the small deflection needed. The situation with the newer, low wing cirrus, diamond , especially the Pilatus PC-12 is much different, the size of the ailerons is much smaller, which , with full flaps , power on or not, will stall, rolling to one side . This due the effect of the strong vortex at the end of the flap interfering, increasing the local angle of attack of the wing section at the outboard location next to the deflected flap. Remember, generally deflecting the large flaps alters the lift distribution, increasing the chord loading at the inboard aileron location . Resulting in a locally large increase of the AOA, past the critical angle ~ 16° Read : Fundamentals of Aerodynamics by John D. Anderson, the Book that most Schools depend on. The Pilatus PC-12 could not be ceriticated without a stick shaker and pusher, making full stall soft field landings impossible without either the stick pusher pushing the nose into the groung or if disconnected, cartwheeling around the wing tip , usually the left one. Try one out if you have the chance___ at altitude, over 3000 elevation clearance. A must for every serious flight instructor. (swiss CFIIG here)

[@keithhinke3277]

My dad showed me what a stall was like with a Piper Super Cub [must be the safest aircraft ever built]. He chopped the power and held the nose as high as it would go, It took several seconds, then the plane shuddered violently for about 10 seconds more, then the nose dropped and all he had to do to recover completely was let go of everything. He even showed me spins [had to force the aircraft to do it holding the stick hard over], The spin is disorienting somewhat, not too bad through. All he had to do to recover from the spin was just to let go of everything again, the plane just popped right out in level flight. He did get bitched at by the FAA for that, as it turned out we were over a large housing subdivision. I guess doing acrobatics over a population area is not allowed, especially as we may have pulled out at less than 1000 feet. He held it in the spin for a long time, I would guess a half dozen rotations. He learned to fly with the RCAF during WW II. He was almost court martialed before even getting to war. He was copilot on an Avro Ansen when they lost an engine on takeoff. The pilot [ranking officer] continued the takeoff attempt, The rules say DO NOT ATTEMPT A TAKE OFF ON ONE ENGINE. He said he looked back at the young faced recruits sitting in the back, and pulled up the landing gear. They were very angry about that, and he said that the only thing he thinks that saved him was one of the officers asked what would he do if the same thing happened in the future. His answer was "the same damn thing".

[@FreePilotTraining]

I’ve heard the cub is extremely stable. I’ve flown a legend cub but never a super cub. These are great stories! Thanks for sharing