Extending the Master Point Over an Edge with a 50 ft. Static Rope

[@nanaandbump.]

Very cool video! I love how dialed he has everything; no fumbling and mumbling, just a lot of experience

[@videoracles]

Thank you!

[@attention_shopping]

great real demo with no stopping/cutting away -- so much better than other youtubers

[@jeromelavoie899]

Really clear, calm and well spoken, especially useful for non-natives english speakers. Congrats for the good material, you got a new fan in French Canada. Cheers

[@videoracles]

Merci pour le commentaire Jérôme!

[@R2_D]

Bro that tutorial just flowed! Awesome! Next time I'm setting top rope for my friends and fully styln as I'm doing it, I'll have you to thank! Cheers!

[@mls01981]

Excellent video! I had learned this exact technique when I had a guide in J-Tree. I even bought my static rope and heavy duty steel oval lockers from the fine people at Nomad Ventures! I can't say enough nice things about the guys in the shop. Building anchors at J-Tree is different from trad anchors I've built at other crags. It always seems like anchor points are miles away from the lip of the climb and it requires more creativity and materials to get it right.

[@videoracles]

Thanks for your comment! Nomad Ventures is great! We'll upload a lot more videos about gear filmed in their Joshua Tree store.

[@Pandolfir]

I would simply like to say "thank you very much from Italy"!

[@videoracles]

You're welcome!

[@sehaydu]

Great video. Best Joshua Tree anchor explainer out there.

[@WyomingMtnMan]

Excellent, concise video. Two comments: 1. The way the "third hand" backup for the ATC rappel is implemented by clipping to the leg loop has a potential flaw. It is possible for the backup friction knot to come in contact with the ATC by lifting the leg which will release it and the climber will fall. Safer method is to extend the whole rappel setup with a sling or quickdraw and attach the friction knot directly to the belay loop of the harness, making sure the knot can never come in contact with the ATC. 2. Elderid makes an aluminum carabineer with a steel insert on the biggest end, which has the robustness of a steel carabineer without the weight.

[@Yaimdan]

Best video I’ve seen! Even included how to transition into the rappel after!! Thanks!

[@jessicakeenum8366]

This is so great! Very nice tips and ideas for avoiding the dreaded rope drag! And it takes the guess work out of predicting the direction of the route, would've never thought of lowering myself on a grigri to adjust the master point!🤯

[@gabrieltwinwithulm7466]

wish I saw this yesterday before I decided to batman from above down to my anchor. Won’t be doing that again. Good video!

[@990mark990]

Keep up the videos. Good info, straight to point, easy to hear and understand. All ya can ask for 👍🏼

[@videoracles]

Thank you!

[@mikecollins9789]

Great demonstration, thank you.

[@stealiedan]

Solid video!

[@videoracles]

Thanks!

[@chavenord]

Great explanation as usual. Thanks. Don't forget to tie knots in your rappel rope ends and don't put your third hand on your leg loop. As they say KZbin videos are a minefield!

[@gabrieltwinwithulm7466]

why shouldn’t I put my third hand on my leg loop? This is what I have been doing…

[@chavenord]

@@gabrieltwinwithulm7466 1. If you lift your leg the third hand can contact the rappelling device and cause it to fail.

[@LykaBro]

No need for stopper knots if you can see the rope touches the ground

[@videoracles]

Roddy's reply: It's true that the extended rappel with third hand on the belay loop has become the standard way that guides (including myself) teach rappelling. It's also true that a lot of climbers, including full-time professionals like myself, still prefer to run the third hand off the leg loop most of the time. It's simple, quick, and comfortable to manage that way. I recommend learning and understanding multiple ways of doing things, rather than becoming dogmatically attached to one. The leg loop method works great as long as you don't flip really far sideways such that the third hand bumps up against the rappel device-which does result in slippage. 'Failure' is too strong a word-experiment with this (carefully!) and you'll see what I mean. And though some say running it off of the leg loop is an issue because the leg loop isn't fully load-bearing, this is a misapplication of the concept. The third hand itself isn't intended to bear the load-merely to hold the rope in brake position. Fun side note-I spend a couple months a year in Yosemite, where a lot of the most accomplished climbers don't use any backup at all-if they are rappelling and want to stop and deal with something, they just wrap the rope two or three times around one leg. I like the extra security of a third hand, myself... but the leg-wrap trick does work great!

[@videoracles]

How to extend the rappel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJzFiWZjfZyjgs0

[@hagantimmons7018]

Excellent Video Dude!

[@quequierelanegra]

You are very calm person and your explanation are very simple for very difficult concepts. I just think it's not better you put your backup in the lega cuze if you turn your body the back up will be open. Just I think.

[@dwgoutdoors831]

This is a great video, really informative.

[@videoracles]

Thank you, glad it was helpful!

[@maddog6243]

Very very good video. Wow.

[@Govanification]

Seems like you could leave the guide tether strand near the anchor so you could attach to that when you top out the climb and be safer as you walk back up to the anchor to break it down.

[@videoracles]

Roddy's reply: Yes, you could! If the top-out is sketchy, I do this sometimes. Thanks for the comment, that's a nice addition!

[@CalvinArterberry]

Awesome video!

[@videoracles]

Thank you!

[@rodolfodickson9500]

Great instructions!

[@treesfallforme3474]

This guy rocks 🪨

[@johan6021]

I love your videos, I learn a lot! I do have a question: When you descend over the edge, you rely on an anchor built using only two cams. I thought that three pieces were the minimum requirement for a trad anchor even if just used for rapelling?

[@CaseyRoff]

Just awesome!

[@rangertommy]

As always, great video. I did have one question though: given that you made no further adjustments to your clove hitch on the 'biner attached to your cordelette, is there a reason you didn't just throw in a figure 8, as opposed to keeping it a clove hitch?

[@finnbright5854]

Rather than adjusting your anchor for more material to make the instructor tether, it is suggested in SPI training to utilize a kliemheist on the legs of your V to protect while setting up the master point over the edge. Whatcha think, more efficient, more risk???

[@swisspowerjet]

thanks for this good movie - what do you think about a rope protector over the ledge?

[@videoracles]

Thank you! In some cases protecting the rope adequately is a must. And in any case, ropes should be inspected regularly! Here is Roddy's answer: If the edge is sharp, a rope protector is a good idea! You can improvise one with whatever is handy--a jacket, rope tarp, or backpack--or make rope protectors by cutting lengths of 1” tubular webbing and sliding them over your anchor rope. Thanks, great question!

[@jeffreyschmidt3997]

I've used the leg portion of discarded denim jeans attached to a friction hitch to keep it in place 👍🏾

[@Salmontemaki]

Wouldn’t it be ideal to guard the anchor lines from the rock? Since you still have that bend radius

[@verticalfeel]

Is Bhk to protect the rope from damage on the edge? Thanks

[@bryanmoffat5198]

always wondered what if your not repelling through the both ends of rope at the same time with your atc

[@paulgaydos3016]

Is it okay to leave one end of the V just clove hitched without a backup knot in case it slips? Seems like it could slip a little being repeatedly weighted and unweighted, and the master point would also shift. Very nicely done video by the way!

[@videoracles]

Thank you! Please see Roddy's answer: I guess it's theoretically possible, but in many hundreds (thousands?) of times using this method I've never seen it happen, nor have I heard of it happening to anyone else.

[@markhoggard5553]

Why is the double overhand master point preferred over a single loop figure 8?

[@videoracles]

Hi Mark, here is Roddy's answer: 1. The main reason is that it allows me to put the master point at exactly the height I want. When I toss the rope over the edge, I’m just eyeballing how much material I will need to make the master point, so rather than trying to get it perfect and potentially coming up short, I toss more than I will actually need. Once I go over the edge on my tether, I can decide exactly how high I want the master point, and tie the double overhand to put it right there. Any extra material ends up as the ‘tail’ of the double overhand, which I can tie off in order to keep it out of the way. 2. The double overhand is also a bit easier to untie after bearing weight, which saves me a bit of time and effort when breaking down the anchor later.

[@stealiedan]

The BHK master point is also more redundant than a single figure 8 on a bight.

[@stealiedan]

Quick question! What brand of static rope is this? The static dope I have is too stiff to work with.

[@videoracles]

This is a static rope from Sterling that was bought by the foot in a store (Nomad Ventures in Joshua Tree). If you have a climbing shop close to you and you can see and feel the gear before buying, it's always best. A 9 or 10mm static rope for this purpose is good. If you plan to use an assisted braking device like in the video, make sure the diameter of the rope is compatible with the device. Polyester or Nylon is a question of planned use and preference. Manufacturers and specific models will have different characteristics, but Nylon static ropes should be lighter, more stretchy and a little easier to tie knots with, and Polyester static ropes are the go to ropes if there is a chance it will get wet.

[@richardsmith9918]

What if the anchor rope gets to moving and the edge of the cliff saws it

[@jeffreyschmidt3997]

Use a rope protector. I used the cut off leg portion of old discarded denim jeans attached​to the rope by a friction hitch

[@tiagoemidio1689]

I'm looking into set ups like this as Im quite new to Climbing. Woudnt a dynamic rope be safer as an anchor as it absorves the impact? So you dont just rely on the flexiblity of your climbing rope.

[@videoracles]

From Roddy: Static material (rope, cord or webbing) is better for the anchor. The flexibility of the climbing rope is sufficient, and if the anchor stretches it might cause the anchor rope to saw back and forth over the rock, potentially damaging the sheath (or worse).

[@beauthetford7608]

great video, lots of simple things i forget about! is that the backside of hidden valley?

[@jonguignard]

Awesome videos! Quick question If you went somewhere that has bolts at the top but the lip was a ways out from the protection, could you use a monolith as the third piece and use this setup for the static rope anchor system?

[@videoracles]

Roddy's reply: Hi Jon, Great question! I do this all the time using bolts way back from the edge (a common scenario in Joshua Tree). I don't add a third point to the anchor. Instead, I use a 'super 8' knot to connect the leg that will be my tether to both bolts, then connect the other leg of the anchor to just one of the bolts. Best, Roddy

[@videoracles]

Super 8 knot: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gIecq4evnrWAqLM

[@vlaaady]

Should be classic. Extremely good video!!! Still can find one fault with it ;) So what is it?

[@jeffreyschmidt3997]

Would have liked to have seen a third hand backing up the grigri rappel😊

[@Mitzbergatc]

My man... Where is that rope protector? Many an accident this will cause by the abrasion of that rope rubbing against the rock due to the weight of the top-rope.... People who follow this and don't use rope-protector can find their anchor rope completely chewed up by the rock at the end of the day...

[@videoracles]

Roddy's reply: Hi Miguel and Chavenord! Catching up on comments... sorry for the delay. I use my static anchor ropes 150 days a year here in Joshua Tree, without a rope protector, and I do not find that abrasion wears through the sheath too fast. The trick is to be careful not to saw back and forth on your tether when going over the edge. And, build your anchor with nice wide legs and a well-placed master point so that it doesn't saw back and forth while in use. I'm getting ready to retire my favorite pink anchor rope, after two years of heavy use... but it still looks pretty good! Sadly I misplaced the one you see in this video before I had time to wear it out, but it was still looking almost brand new after at least 100 days of use as shown. Best, Roddy

[@iamdooser]

How would you suggest approaching a similar scenario with two bolts that are on top of the cliff, away from the edge? I'd prefer not to rappel off a single bolt..

[@videoracles]

Here is Roddy's answer: Great question! A good bolt is fine for body weight, but if I don’t know the bolt’s history or just want to be extra safe I’ll clip the two bolts together with a sling and then proceed as shown in the video.

[@iamdooser]

@@videoracles thanks Roddy, I used this today. A follow up: I was hoping this strategy would allow for being imprecise with the static rope lengh but I had significant excess/tail when tying the BHK on a bite; gravity pulled that excess down which would lead to rubbing against the belay rope. Any solution other than re-adjusting and being more precise with the "v" length used for the BHK?

[@videoracles]

Here's Roddy's reply: Sure! If I end up with a bunch of extra rope, I tie it off to one of the legs of the anchor with a fisherman’s knot, adding as many wraps as necessary to use up all the rope. Once snugged tight, this doesn’t tend to slip.

[@AskTheKid]

I'm wondering if the bhk is really better than a figure 8 on a bite

[@videoracles]

Please see Roddy's reply: Hi Andrew, the BHK isn't stronger or better in any general sense, but in this situation it allows you to put the master point right where you want it. Best, Roddy

[@mjh42777]

Had the same question. Thanks

[@andrewklitzke7912]

Yo you didn't close the system before repelling

[@videoracles]

Yes, good point. In this case Roddy can clearly see that there is a bunch of extra rope on the ground on both ends. That said, tying stopper knots at the ends of both strands is an important habit to have, as rappelling off the end of the rope is a source of serious accidents (e.g., rope too short, not in the middle, missing the rappel station). Here are 2 videos that focus on rappelling and mention stopper knots: rockclimb.videoracles.com/videos/rappelling/ rockclimb.videoracles.com/videos/sport-climbing/cleaning-a-bolt-anchor-rappelling/

[@robinwojcik2824]

First time I see someone tie a friction knot to the leg strap when setting up for rappel ... mildly safe

[@videoracles]

Roddy's reply: Hi Robin, Although it's not common in Europe, it's still the most common rappel back-up used by Yosemite climbers! We used to call the extended rappel with third hand on the belay loop 'the Euro set-up' but it is now becoming standard here in the US. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. There is some discussion of this in the comments on our rappelling video. Best, Roddy

[@FourT6and22]

@@videoracles Yep. Pretty common in my experience as well. A lot of people will moan about extending the rappel so your third hand doesn't contact belay device if you lift your leg too high. But really... you shouldn't be putting your leg over your head while rappelling unless you're trying to give yourself a happy ending.

[@stoneyclimber]

Dairy Queen Wall!

[@AdamEdington]

Check out this one for top rope setup kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6e3Z6iGjtGHp9E

[@dirtbagsinc.1689]

Hey so your rappel is sketch tho

[@kiefmanning7394]

Why? He didn’t close the system with stopper knots but maybe he can see the ground. I am sure he knows where he is so he probably knows the rope hits the ground and the back up on the leg loop I’d fine. Looks like a metolius safe tech harness so the loops are rated. Looked ok to me. Where is your video?