Doing Free to Play Wrong - How Bad Monetization Harms F2P Games - Extra Credits

Free to Play or F2P games often earn criticism for putting profits ahead of good game design. Pay walls and pay to win monetization strategies corrupt the experience for all players.
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[@VultureXV]

Cosmetics...cosmetics...cosmetics. Players will basically pay anything to look cool or unique to themselves. It's just a part of human nature.

[@TheTheThe_]

TF2 in a nutshell. It works though.

[@shredlock9896]

+AgroW So true

[@desu38]

+AgroW I try not to think about how much I've spent on virtual hats.

[@justmovedin]

2 dollars for a virtual hat... Money well spent. Probably.

[@darrylparks4806]

+draconic33 I don't remember who said this, but it's spot on, imo. In a massively multiplayer environment, there are thousands of players who play the class you do, main the character you do, or whatever. More than loot, more than standings, in games like these people value the ability to feel unique or to stand out from the crowd. Like you said. Skins in LoL, hats in TF2, these are how you do it right.

[@ThePhantomSafetyPin]

"Nintendone 64" is my next favorite way to say I'm fed up.

[@AlchemiconSilver]

The Super Nintendone! The Nintendone Enterframement System The Nintendone Nii.

[@teh_user5199]

SlidingSilver Nintendone Wii(th) U

[@apples6684]

The Nintendone Gamesquare

[@JohnSmith-xq1pz]

Piklup There's one I've hadn't seen in awhile lol.

[@ShibuNub3305]

Psfinished

[@crystalsoulslayer]

I'm a time traveler from 2017. AAA publishers have started cutting out content to sell it as DLC, holding it hostage behind preorders, and inserting extortionist f2p mechanics in $60 titles. Will the industry implode, or will this just keep happening?

[@TotallyNotAFox]

There are enough stupid people that supports this by buying the games + DLCs - The customer decides what happens, and when I see what so called AAA publishers / developers do since about 5 years.... I rather look for older games to buy / Abandonware

[@crystalsoulslayer]

Boycotts aren't necessarily going to work in this case, because remember, we're dealing with _publishing executives_ here. If sales don't meet expectations, they've always simply blamed the devs. The Sims failed to rake in 30 ghjillion dollars a second? Must be Maxis's fault. Dead Space is not the massive cross-medium hit they thought it would be? Visceral must have done something wrong. Tomb Raider, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, the list goes on. It's honestly like they believe game devs can print money on command, and if they don't get as much money as they want, that must be the dev's fault. Consumers will eventually revolt, but I don't know if publishers have the self-awareness required to understand why and adapt.

[@glitchingwiththethugz8400]

This is where i definetly agree. It's not the devs, it's the greedy assfaces who publish them

[@welcometohell3002]

I think he said something about this in his "Games Should Not Cost $60 Anymore" video.

[@quantum6637]

I am a time traveler from 2018 and I am pleased to tell you that Epic Games has made a Free to Play game, Fortnite: Battle Royale, that took the ideas and RAN with them. All gameplay is completely free and the only purchases come from awesome skins at a fair price. Now it has over 125 million players worldwide. Additionally, many other games are joining Epic in this type of game.

[@dodo_rising]

Y’know, as soon as you mentioned Warhammer I remembered a quote I heard. “You’re not playing Warhammer 40k properly until 40k is the amount you’ve spent.”

[@extrahistory]

Wow, what a response! We didn't have time to discuss specific games in this video, but a number of you have emailed or commented about free-to-play games you want to talk about. We would love to see that happen, so we made a list of the 10 most-requested games and encourage you to leave your thoughts about them in the comments! Good or Bad? What do you think? Path of Exile, Dungeon Keeper (Mobile), Star Wars The Old Republic, Dota 2, War Thunder, Warframe, Rusty's Real Deal Baseball, Runescape, Hearthstone, Loadout

[@DawnPaladin]

I don't think _Knights of the Old Republic_ is a free-to-play game. _The Old Republic,_ however, is an excellent candidate for talking about free-to-play done wrong.

[@extrahistory]

***** Derp. That's what I get for letting my fingers type game titles by habit. ;) -Soraya

[@williamkendrick]

***** another good example of a f2p game thats awesome is star trek online. initially i thought it wouldn't do well as f2p.... but man was i wrong. it works... you dont have to buy anything, but if you do they have so much there, there'll always be something you might want, and it helps support the game! i've been playing ever since it went free to play and have spent more on it than when it wasn't. and i never ever felt like i HAD to to enjoy the game :)

[@pepperoach]

***** LoL's model of holding heroes back is actually more noob-friendly, as you don't get overwhelmed with choices on the very first game you start. Also, it encourages you to play frequently with the same guy, so you get used to that one guy and play a bit better :V

[@williamkendrick]

***** pedro you hit it on the nail. League and Dota 2 (but really mostly league)'s model of letting you cycle the players is a big draw as it lets you slowly acclimate to the game. League even introduced personal LoL credit cards that you earn points in game for when you use them! and i'm sorry, but i'm sporting my Luna CC with pride. thats the kinda breakthrough f2p really need to be sucessfull, in my stupid humble opinion :)

[@neversparky]

Another method to free to play is Team fortress 2's system. Instead of Pay to win, its pay to be fabulous

[@Shadow_Witch]

What are you talking about? TF2 is 100% pay to win, how can you be good at the game without amazing hats?

[@somuchtocook9159]

Well a hatted pyro might get killed more

[@kingjames4886]

idk, people used to say I was harder to headshot when I wore my towering pillar of hats...

[@MsZsc]

minus the set bonuses for a very short while

[@angelmejia4487]

The same did chess rush. They only sell aestethics. I feel a lot of games should do the same.

[@Nick-pc4in]

I would much rather pay $60.00 up front than get a free to play game with very few features being actually free

[@thenetherone1597]

3 years later. EA GAMES: "Why not both?"

[@blunderbus2695]

Everyone else: "That's a terrible idea."

[@tasertag7513]

EA "Games": How 'bout I do anyway?

[@zhangbill1194]

@@tasertag7513 unexpected bill wurtz

[@MexiSword]

Can you say Anthem?

[@CSGhostAnimation]

The outro music... I'm not sure where the exact origin is, but I've heard it before. Pokemon Stadium 2, the Delibird Delivery minigame soundtrack.

[@Diagonalstuff]

Oh cool Ghost watches Extra Credits

[@TheRedCap]

I'm 3 years late, but it's Break the Targets from Super Smash Bros (N64)

[@YeahImMan116]

cool

[@TF2Coverop]

I never heard about Money Bomb before. That really sounds cool.

[@wynnefox]

TF2 actually has things like that though as do some other games. In TF2 you can give everyone on a server a bunch of random items other than yourself. So far though I've only seen server admins use them to celebrate or do things for the people playing. The big problem is often just that everyone got a bunch of crates. Thankfully they reduced crate drop rates though. On the other hand You have games like Champions Online that actually have "group boosters" so everyone in your team gets more money, XP, or what ever. Just, again, no one uses them. It's the culture of the game thing.

[@wynnefox]

***** I did say it's a different culture.

[@NotAGoodUsername360]

Yeah, that DOES sound pretty epic... especially if the items the Money Bomb generates actually add up to be worth more than the money bomb itself is, especially if the animation of the Money Bomb going off is really fancy and pretty and gives that feeling of throwing money at crowds in Assassin's Creed, only with human feedback and praise and thanks... What an awesome way to capitalize on "it's better to give than to receive!"

[@PJammaGod]

Like For the Wynne mentions, TF2 has a bunch of gifts item that grants 20 people on the server a random item. It's been a tradition of mine every Xmas since they were first put on the market to purchase a couple, hit up some servers and just throw them around. And like the video talks about, I found spreading a little Xmas cheer encouraged other people to do the same.

[@NotAGoodUsername360]

PJammaGod That's pretty cool, but it's pretty impersonal and awfully random. You don't get that same impression of someone emptying a briefcase full of hundred dollar bills from a skyscraper window into the rush hour crowd below... You need something visible within the game itself, a visible pickup, to SEE that item getting collected like picking up a really awesome new weapon in a single player game, and knowing that someone deliberately forked over real money to hand out that item to you is pretty hard not to be happy over. Plus, TF2 servers already automatically distribute random items at random intervals anyways, so you're pretty much just paying to be the random item dropper in TF2. Point is, it isn't QUITE the same thing.

[@zyrothmusic]

The fact that this video came out years ago, and the persistent F2P model remains relevant, astonishes me. Well done.

[@blaster915]

They know their game design😢

[@tristanneal9552]

The "money bomb" sounds like lures in Pokemon Go.

[@123goofyking]

Tristan Neal Exactly! The only thing worth buying. But then there's the Poke balls....

[@DavidDagninoV]

Angelo Acosta I have never needed to buy poke balls. It is the most dropped item by pokestops so why buy them? the ones that we really need arr hyper balls and they don't sell it, making the fact of finding one in a pokestop way more satisfactory. egg incubators on the other hand...

[@tristanneal9552]

I found that many people who need to buy pokeballs are from rural areas that have the normal amount of Pokemon encounters but way less Pokestops then people in the cities.

[@NaudVanDalen]

@@tristanneal9552 If I had no free Pokeballs, I wouldn't play the game. It would have cost me literally THOUSANDS of dollars to buy the Pokeballs I get for free.

[@banananarwhals2016]

You can't get the money from a money bomb, but you can from a lure

[@ElicatrothTV]

For me, this means that they should do only cosmetics, or something improoves PERSONAL game experience with 0 impact WHATSOEVER on another players gaming experience. That cash bomb however could be an exception, that sounds like fun :D

[@vinx.9095]

look at robocraft, only cosmetics are pay only, and if you pay to progress you wil progres faster but you don't become better that the rest, you will always be put into a game with same tier robots, and you gave all player who play with and against you +5% (you get +105%) so peaple like playing with premeums, so you not the P2W (you cant) but the one who boosts everyone rewards.

[@freddyready8756]

Yes and no, it can be a good and bad idea doing it this way. Most would need to restrict the player for some of the content but not in a way that would feel forceful to you, but rather as DLC if you would think it as that.

[@thesupertoaster9628]

Tf2. That is the monetisation of the game, with free random drop weapons also being sold.

[@Tiana_atr]

I like what nintendo is doing with Pokemon Rumble World and Pokemon Picross. Once you've spent the equivalent of $30 - $35 (Depending on which amounts you buy) on in-game currency, it cut's off and from then on gives a set amount of free currency every day. Essentially you can play for free with some restrictions, but not a large amount and if you want to can spend the price of a full game to essentially unlock everything right away. This thing also prevents people (particularily kids who don't know any better and some who do but don't care) from spending say thousands of dollars on the in-game currency.

[@Dwarg91]

+Atrus And then there is the fact that they call this style of monetization free to start rather than free to play, as that sets a very different mindset when you go to get it. Free to start sets up the expectation that at some point you will have to pay for something to further the game. Whereas free to play sets up the expectation that you wont have to pay to complete the game.

[@Epicvux]

+Dwarg91 I totally agree with this. I logically expect to have to pay up in free to play games but something about the expectation of free to play makes e feel weird every time I pay from the first to the last. The minor difference between free to play and free to start really makes all the difference psychologically. Logically I know its the same but on the most basic level it just feels differently at least for me.

[@LazeBlaz3]

TF2 is just the perfect F2P model. It's not Pay2Win, and not too easy without paying any actual money... The game is literally the same in both cases, as whenever you pay, you are glad to pay because you get cool cosmetics (hat simulator 2014), instead of an OP weapon that shoots through anything! Also, the developpers are almost sure to get money from you, as if you pay 5+$, you get more item drops chances FOREVER. I found myself happy to pay for a hat (in fact, it was the Deus Specs) because 1) it looked cool, and 2) it gave me a (almost) FREE "Premium membership" (or whatever they're calling it), and it WORKS. Every developper should take example on Valve for F2P games! Or for that Korean MMO!

[@canamrock]

TF2 does a few things right here. Basically all weapons are sidegrades, creating new experiences rather than just being objectively better at the same task as the defaults. Hats and shit are utterly optional, and once you buy anything, you can pretty much play forever with all the servers and game modes readily available. The trick is that Valve realizes the players are the content. Anyone who plays is making games available for those who *do* pay, and that's a large part of the trick. Don't make the game simply easier - make it different. Let money be a fast track to new experiences and keep it reasonable; never make purchasing be the only option. That's how you tempt purchases without resentment. That's how you keep players active if your base multiplayer game is good.

[@LazeBlaz3]

Matt Rock Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. I *think* Dota has more or less the same model, with cosmetics and armor that DOESN'T influence gameplay that you can buy, just to look cool (and I haven't played a lot of that game, hence the think enhancement). I guess Valve has the Free To Play model in the bag. They know exactly what players want while making revenue to make the game continue living. This is why there is such a great fanbase on both TF2 and Dota. They're both great F2Ps with great content that continues living, even years after the initial release, through making content with the Steam Workshop. I think more developpers should try listening to the community as much as Valve does!

[@canamrock]

MrEtgamerz TF2 has been where Valve admitted they've tested all the various freemium model stuff they do. DOTA and CS have benefited from trying stuff out there first.

[@joshl8047]

I was about to say everything you just said...are you in my head? GET OUT! 0-o

[@canamrock]

Josh L Get out, Archimedes... it's filthy in zere!

[@frankdelgrosso8297]

The money bomb (your contribution earns praise) is a really neat way to motivate players to want to spend. I hope you do another video with several other suggestions as FTP is a great idea being destroyed by most current models.

[@bela15216]

"nintendone 64" that was fantastic.

[@MrNsaysHi]

Misty Wind I didn't get it..

[@spongebobsquarepants2175]

Mr. N Reference to a Sega commercial I'm pretty sure

[@jinmunsuen]

I always play F2P with the attitude of 'try to play as long as possible without paying', often if the game IS enjoyable, I will fork out a bit of money to support the developers. But most f2p games never impress me that much. I have nothing against paying, just not into games trying to tempt/cheat me out of my money, in order to continue playing a game that's already started.

[@ironlynx9512]

Just hearing about that money bomb made me smile :)

[@jadeforest7924]

This episode reminded me of a game I used to play called War Commander by Kixeye. This was a F2P RTS that I found over facebook. I spent hours every day for 3 years playing this game, trying to upgrade everything I could. What ended up killing the experience for me wasn't a lack of content, but rather too much content. Every month, a new unit would come out, and every month, this unit would be OP until the next month's unit. I got fed up with how fast new things were being released because I couldn't keep up playing 4+ hours a day. I eventually quit because I got fed up with the paying players that could afford the OP units. I'll put in the time for a F2P game, but you need to make it balanced, so that the dedicated non-paying players can keep up with the paying players.

[@cheesecakelasagna]

*Harry Potter: Hogwarts Mystery is shaking*

[@ihitterdal]

i like how most of the comments are just immediate reactions to the idea of free to play, attacking the concept rather than listening to the points brought up in the video itself good job, guys

[@aegis027]

One point I would add, is that the thing you buy must not ruin the experience for another player who hasn't chosen to buy it. This is where most competitive games fail, the best example being gold ammo in World of Tanks, where it improved the game for the person playing it, but actively made it worse for anyone they were facing. If you see something someone paid for in a F2P game, it must only make the player want to buy it, as opposed to hating the other person for buying it. A good example of this done right is League of Legends, where skins are cool for the player using them, and can inspire the people they are playing against to buy it as well.

[@GaaraLover1792]

I see this as being part of Warframe's model. Someone buying a special gun or warframe doesn't hurt my experience, it just makes me go "ooh, that looks cool. I wanna get that." Now, I wish their prices were a bit lower, but still, even people who buy the $150 packs of warframes and weapons don't get anything gamebreaking or that ruin's everyone else's fun.

[@vgamesx1]

well thats actually a terrible example, because everyone can buy gold ammo with in game credits... a much better example would be an FPS that where there's a special gun you can only get from buying with real money, even if its only slightly better.

[@aegis027]

vgamesx1 I meant the old actual gold ammo, the one that could only be bought with real money, and would give you an edge over other players. Even the new APCR rounds are prohibitively expensive in terms of spending in game money on them, since you are almost certain to run a loss in that game. It makes you fell bad about using them, as well as ruining everyone else's experience.

[@CaliToys]

Super, I subscribed and file a like !!!

[@rebornwoshua78]

wut

[@ARVash]

I would love to see another episode with more examples of good monetization strategies and why they worked, that is specific explorations of what made that experience fun for the player to pay.

[@alexmercer2743]

I like these videos; they're very comprehensive and well-written. However, I would like some specific examples of the types of games you talk about, sometimes.

[@franmadaraki8688]

Dota2 is probably the only popular F2P on the top of my head that does it 100% perfectly right. You can jump in day one and have EVERYTHING gameplay related at your beck and call. No grinding or money is needed to fully enjoy the game. Only cosmetics can be bought. That's the right way to do it.

[@pathlastname9278]

*cough*tf2*cough*

[@willlu3220]

There's one huge problem with Dota 2's model. Cosmetic sales are utter shit. I think TotalBiscuit said on an episode of the co-optional podcast that you don't earn THAT much from cosmetics, which is why it's a shaky model. The only reason Valve can get away with it is because they're a private video game developer, meaning that they aren't pressured by outside sources to produce games and they have a shit ton of money, so they can make great games at a loss.

[@wutevaidc]

DOTA 2 does have its good model but you have to remember DOTA 2 is a competitive game. Knowing all the ins and outs of the game is essential to the competitive experience. Adding the cosmetics are nice and fine as long as they are definable. The second a player can get confused from another hero or doesnt recognized the different animation, thats when the system fails. This was the route TF2 went, popping items left and right reducing the competitive fairness

[@franmadaraki8688]

Valve doesnt gain money from people just using steam

[@The4321kp]

***** the users make the content and valve sells it so they are pretty much getting paid for someone to work for them.

[@Puffycheeses]

You know what I hate. Games I pay $6 for on the App Store but then get hit by a pay wall.

[@auail5594]

0:52 Who else got that "you see" pun? Ewe C

[@hawkdracano3840]

+Au Ail me

[@proto303]

that is so freaking clever!

[@jedimasterpickle3]

Not talking about Team Fortress 2? Granted, it didn't start out as Free to Play, but Valve did increase its profits 12-fold by making it free. The reason why people would choose to pay is hats. All the goddamn hats that makes the Mann-conomy work.

[@CrazyRiverOtter]

That's how they did it in Roblox... Except in that game they did it horrifically wrong.

[@MintyDarkFinger]

***** Roblox now is money hungry as fuck. Only 1 place and no income if you're a regular member and 70% of the stuff you can't even do without builders club. They also take more from you in micro-transactions you make in the game if you're a normal player. BC+ members keep 70% of profit they make whereas normal member make 10%. That's fucking ridiculous. Also the currency exchange rate is silly now to try and get people to buy robux or invest in BC+. The exchange rate started at 3.5 and now it averages out at 20. It used to be a fair system. Then it got greedy and ruined itself. This all coming from a member who's been a lover of the game since Oct 12th 2008.

[@Butterworthy]

I think Nintendo really hit it out of the park (pun intended) with Rusty's Real Deal Baseball on 3DS recently. A Free to Play game where you play to earn items to haggle with the shop owner who can lower the price of the pay content for you. The general consensus is that everyone enjoyed what is essentially a minigame to spend more money for more content.

[@kingemocut]

and that sub game too, where they gave you 2 levels and the online for free, and if you want to pay for it you get more missions and stuff, but it still doesn't make the game less fun.

[@Butterworthy]

kingemocut Exactly. You even got the multiplayer in addition to the single player for free.

[@kingemocut]

Butterworthy yep. hopefully they won't go over the top with it though, keep it smart and realistic. and if ninty does have a new CEO, hopefully sakuri will be the new admin. i believe he'll be smart with F2P.

[@Butterworthy]

kingemocut After yesterday's Smash direct, I think I'd trust Sakurai with my life.

[@masonpolk8843]

This is way I like trove as a game 1.Everyone is a team so people who pay can also help nonpayers. 2.There is no paywall 3.The membership gives you alot of small bonuses not a few major ones 4. Grind=Fun (not all games are like that but in an open world game like trove almost every time is different.) (Also grind + friends + Skype or discord = great time 5.You get the WHOLE main game 6. It gives you the ability to change classes for free 7.How strong you are depends how long you play. -1It may get hard to progress which some call a paywall

[@rrttone9054]

and there is something like a money bomb but you can pick up the loot too

[@TheSpeep]

i find it kinda sad that #5 in this list nowadays is actually something worth pointing out... i mean yes, its a good thing you get the whole game when you download it, but shouldnt that really just make sense? its stupid to pay the full price for half of the game to later spend the same amount of money again on DLC and what have you... but thats what the industry has come to apparently...

[@Mike-du3fk]

Mason Polk The pay wall is when you dont have enough time to grind fast enough on endgame, tho you pay for convenience that rewards you for playing at a low cost (patron) or a pack for preset items to skip some grind at a higher cost. The items that affect gameplay the most require you to play to obtain them since paying gives you a little boost or slightly higher if lucky because of the rng.

[@rrttone9054]

Im like midgame now, but I didnt spend a cent on this game and I still enjoy it.

[@rrttone9054]

Ziulyx luckly ive bought all the classes before the update and the dino tamer for the class coin :)

[@channelremoved32]

1:53 is probably my favorite screenshot from an extra credits episode ever

[@MegaPhilX]

Personally, I prefer avoiding F2P games. I don't like real money decisions (or ads (Yeah I think that could be a good thing to talk about: Ads in games)) invading my gaming experience. I want gaming decisions to take place when I'm playing a game. And the F2P model is definitely not optimal for every type of game. So I think it's wrong to think that every game should rely on this model and that somehow buying a game in itself is outdated and bad.

[@tiagomiguel7311]

OMG IT'S MEGAPHILX!!!

[@gsparx25]

I think part of the issue is that games cost so much money to make these days that a one-off purchase won't recoup cost. Publishers can no longer afford to put out a AAA experience for a 60 dollar one-time purchase (although there is evidence to the contrary, e.g. GTA V). The need for a continuous revenue stream leads to either subscription models, which no one likes (broad statement), or a F2P model that will continue to generate revenue. I agree not every game should rely on this model, but it can be beneficial in many instances. But it's only beneficial if done right.

[@tiagomiguel7311]

gsparx25 I agree

[@williamkendrick]

gsparx25 i call shenanigans. thats so untrue! the REAL reason they make it that way so they can MAKE more.. and do less work. just look at pockie pirates some time. they didn't do a damn thing other than monetize one piece, and did it at a vulgar level. YES, publishers CAN produce a AAA game, because who says AAA games are only 10000000 bajillion dollars, you? BULL.

[@gsparx25]

William Kendrick Fairly unnecessarily toxic comment...but your point is well taken. Games with low production value that are free to play generally are the games looking to just make a quick buck. However, when you look at the budgets of some of the major AAA titles ("In an 2012 investor report, Take-Two admitted some of its "top titles" cost in excess of $60 million for development alone.") it does seem more and more difficult to fund your next game project unless you have a continuous stream of income, rather than a one-time purchase from your customers. I agree not all AAA games cost that much, but there is a reason that those games are also referred to as "big-budget titles". I was just trying to provide some context to MegaPhilX's comment as to when a F2P model might be appropriate, not trying to make any huge claims about the gaming industry.

[@GirlPainting]

Guild Wars 2 is a good example of a free to play model with a well working ingame store with items you don´t need, but whant ;)

[@MitsukixTenshi]

But it is a buy to play though...

[@he110me]

MitsukixTenshi yeah, but nearly 2 years down the road, do you honestly expect the game to keep going on box-sales alone? especially with the living story stuff? This far down the road, when most of the players who want the game already have it, the game essentially becomes a F2P model.

[@spamfilter2398]

I respectfully disagree. While they did a good job providing content updates for free, and the game is very much worth the price tag, it is neither free to play nor doe sit have a compelling store. There's nothing I want to buy from them.

[@demogorghon]

GW2 is not f2p. It doesn't even have a free trial now.. As a long time player of GW1 I would gladly test it. But it's to expensive to buy risking I wouldnt like it (especially you can't just sell it back). Even this long after release it still costs too much.

[@aquapendulum]

$60 upfront is not free.

[@reubenfrench6288]

Only money I've ever spent in a F2P game was $7.49 for the skin that I was willing to throw money at the screen for the instant I saw it. Never regretted a cent of it.

[@guygeva7375]

I remember that in Robocraft it happened to me: I saw an awesome robot, and I always looked forward for it, and I bought it.

[@HadrianMcQuaig]

I hope the industry recovers from the glut of "Pay to Cheat" and "Pay to Win" models they keep pumping out. I've stopped a lot of gaming on my mobile devices as a result of bad F2P games. Frozen Free Fall comes to mind.

[@Flaris]

I'd definitely say TF2 is what I'd consider doing this sort of thing correctly. Sure it started off as a game you bought, but it works just fine now as F2P. You don't have to spend money to have fun, but it's certainly tempting and fun to do just that. The hats, the weapons, the bit of gambling with crates, etc. If only more of these kinds of games could find that happy position and avoid the big problems in this video.

[@XradicalD]

True, when I think of Free-to-play, I think of TF2, as seems to be an amazing example of a good F2P model. Buying things doesn't equals to paying-to-win, you just get some aesthetics or weapons, but all weapons are balanced enough so players don't become better than others by the weapon itself. And it didn't screw over the already owners of the game. As someone who payed for the original Orange Box, I can say my money was well spent; I manage to play the game years before the F2P model, and the "premium" account feels good enough, as already owners get the "full game", all crafts, extra inventory space, almost every if not all item drops, and access to every server. Also Source SDK for own content creation. I believe Valve made an amazing job with the F2P model on TF2.

[@samus543654]

XradicalD Sadly, now that Dota 2 is valve's new cash cow due the tf2's economic model, they are slowly removing resources from tf2.

[@XradicalD]

Hastaroth Apparently so, but the TF2 team sure gave a lot of support to a game from 2007, more than the expected support after release from other companies.

[@samus543654]

XradicalD Tf2 is still making money. 133 millions is a lot of money. Working games tend to be kept alive by putting resources in it. In this case, TF2 is still generating revenue, but valve is not allocating resources.

[@XradicalD]

Hastaroth The game is making money by the content it already has, not by the content it will have. Updates have been slowing down since long ago, as much of the items implemented are cosmetics, but what TF2 already is, is amazingly good, I don't blame Valve for moving most of the team on new project, specially one like DOTA 2. As long as people keep playing it, TF2 will still have content, maybe not like it used to had, but better than a complete halted content.

[@TheTrixyLeStrange]

I discovered this channel a few days ago and, while I'm not a designer or a hard-core gamer (I consider myself somewhere between casual and hardcore, playing "real games" less than "casual" games, but enjoying them wholeheartedly when I get time) And I love the amount of thought you put into your topics. The fact that people still think about the raw elements of design and philosophy in games give me hope for the industry. Keep it up!

[@emilygordbort7300]

What I would like to see would be a paid item that increases the difficulty of the enemy you're going against, while giving more loot than normal. Like in an mmo, instead of grinding for 2 hours to get 100 rabbit skins, you can drop one of these on a rabbit in the overworld, it mutates into a mega-rabbit, and you have an impromptu boss fight for which the reward is 100 rabbit skins Something that makes things more fun, but is not necessarily required to get the same end result. It'd be especially useful for high-level players because, once they reach a certain point, collecting the items would be a matter of mindlessly clicking on anything that moves until they get what they want. However, if they were to pay, they could still have a challenge even though they're at the point where they're pretty much towering above everyone else. The only issue would be needing to make sure you don't make it feel like they *have* to use that particular item to have a challenge anymore. to which i'd probably respond by making the item only work on enemies 30 levels or lower than you and boosting them to "your level +10% of the difference between you and the enemy", while still having a normal level-appropriate challenge elsewhere in the world. So it's more of a "make grinding feel less like grinding" item than anything. Turn the "help me find 50 bull horns" fetch quest into a boss battle instead of "let's go destroy the cattle ranching industry"

[@foxthebox5113]

You shouldn't have to pay so you can play at your own skill level tho

[@Dragodonv2]

I'm surprised TF2 was not openly mentioned here. I guess it's been used lots of times to defend the ftp genre, but I think it could have also provided a fair example of the enthusiastic buyer.

[@Dragodonv2]

JakesFavorites Okay, I think that's true.

[@GuerillaBunny]

TF2, LoL, et al. are fairly bad examples, since they're relatively cheap to run compared to MMOs. The occasional new map or class takes a much smaller staff than a content patch that includes zones, raids, dungeons, items, quests, voice acting, cutscenes, etc.

[@Dragodonv2]

GuerillaBunny True, but only because they have already established a system in which this is possible. They aren't trying to build a NEW MMO from the ground up. But yes, I think that TF2 and LOL can be excluded for this same reason.

[@GuerillaBunny]

Yeah. Buying and producing stuff in TF2, LoL, etc. is kinda like buying a new rug, while producing new content for an MMO is like building a new wing to your house.

[@giraton1]

i think the main reason they didn't mention tf2 was probably because people were expecting such an answer. i mean as they were mentioning all the things the game should make you feel is how i feel when looking at a specific item in tf2. i want that awesome hat, i want that australium weapon, just to say i have it. And heck even the money bomb thing is in tf2, the only reason nobody gets one is because its either crates which anyone can get, or keys and that costs the same as buying 24 keys, which is allot. its a cheap answer, and so it was best to get other examples.

[@unacomn]

I like that money bomb idea. For me, the free to play phenomenon hit it's lowest point a few years ago, when I was doing a weekly series about free to play MMOs. Most of them were produced in China or South Korea, and had a really, really depressing design philosophy when it came to monetization. Whoever had the money, had the power. That was it, and not in just a gameplay advantage, but social power too. These were games made where someone with access to a credit card would amass wealth and power, allowing them to, in essence, recruit other players as henchmen. They in turn recruited others, poorer players with the promise of the occasional trinket, and most times not necessarily with favours or gifts, but with threats. By bullying them, until either they quit the game, or they joined up. This was very common especially in PvP centric games. The result was the player base gravitating around a few players that had real life wealth, like a criminal organization. Adding to the problem was the game mechanics that had little to no variety, required no tactics, nothing apart from brute-forcing your way through a tedious grind, or paying to get 100-200% exp boosts and special gear. The worst part of this is that people get sucked into that gang mentality, that awful, awful, exploitative design. They see even the smallest increase in stats as a reward for their hard work, grinding the same mobs for days, because that will let them kill their enemy in combat, that will let them climb higher in the hierarchy of the gang, that will let them be the one that gives orders, that has his own henchmen. This is more or less why I have no expectations that an actually good free to play MMO will ever have success in my country. It's that circle of abuse, they get trapped in it, and see only it. No story, no world building, no meaningful social interaction, just grind and kill the other guys so the boss will give you a shiny new armor. It's horrible.

[@kailikwoh498]

I recall EC telling in one of their videos "Never sell power." Didn't expect doing so could have such drastic results.

[@Kaittaja92]

Kai Li Kwoh It actually does. One way in a MMORPG is though the idea of fighting equipment and fashion equipment and the fashion is with IRL money and has no status modifiers, but the game also failed by selling fashion items with modifiers ($200 for a super cape) and giving access for equipping 2 armors that made you super strong and very costly XP potions (+500% xp for 24hours) and giving only for the free players at best like +30% for an hour and not stackable.

[@THECOMMUNISTCHANNEL]

"Money and Skins will NEVER replace skills" -Nickbunyun

[@era23]

3:18 you basically just described EAs recent games in a few words

[@allanjbucknol4414]

Truly

[@MagmarFire]

I just gotta say: The resentment face is one of the funniest things ever.

[@Katana314]

In reply to this comment, post whatever F2P purchasables you can think of that felt really worth it; or just the ones you decided to get yourself. For me, it would likely be the Something Special for Someone Special in Team Fortress 2. Introduced around Valentine's day, it's a diamond ring that cost $100 (and the description played fun at this). You get it with a gift box that you can send to another player. When you do, the other player gets a notification asking them if they "accept" or "refuse" the proposal. If they accept, both of you get a wearable gold ring, AND the acceptance is announced globally to every player playing the game.

[@wrengilson2025]

Y'know, I don't buy many mobile games (I like to buy indie games that work on my android tablet) but there's one I'm super tempted to buy. It's Plague Inc, a game with tons of playable content, but to get the special levels or unlock different modes of play there are microtransactions, or you can by the whole game for a larger sum. But you play the game like normal and get to really enjoy the game. The rest of it is kind of an expansion pack. And honestly, it may sound like a "pay to get father" but it's not--it's just pay to get more, and after I really like the game already, it sounds pretty good.

[@williamkendrick]

i'd say buying my ships in star trek online. i didn't have to, my ships that were free worked just fine and i could always just save my pennies and buy the same ship from the EC auctionhouse, but i instead decided to get it the money route, to support the game. i've never felt like it was a bad purchase. they have even improved the model of the ship and added extra goodies to it, like a saucer seperation, and never made you buy it again. i really feel like the STO f2p model is a good one. you NEVER have to buy anything.

[@BappyDappy]

A Map Stamp From team Fortress 2 Reasons; 1. I basically just bought a Hat for $1. That's CHEAP for a TF2 hat. 2. The hat can only be acquired through purchase. That makes it more special. 3. I got 2 hats, the premium account and made a donation with just $1. Woah.

[@ElNeroDiablo]

William Kendrick Ahh yes, STO's purchasable ships. I recently dropped the 8,000 Zen ($80 USD, 20% discount from the usual 10,000Z/$100 USD) that the Advanced Dyson Science Destroy Mega Bundle was on sale for, having used and loved the version you can get within the game (without going to the C-Store) for so long and waiting for such a time to strike and get the upgraded versions. It doesn't hurt that each of the Advanced Dyson Destroyers comes with a unique console, that work beautifully when paired with all the Mk XI/XII purple ship parts you can get by running the Dyson Sphere Episode Missions (the ones added for Season 8/8.5), though you never HAVE to buy the ships (and if you do, best get the Mega bundle as that has all 9 ships, 3 each for each faction, for the price of 4 individual ships or 2 of the faction-based bundles).

[@williamkendrick]

ElNeroDiablo Studios i got the cruiser dreadnought.. and i looove it. i've got a lot of turning, due to the fact the galaxy-x has a bit better turning than the rest of the cruisers, so i exploit that even further. i also loved the dyson ships, especially the science destroyer. in alot of instances, if it changes the gameplay a bit, without destroying immersion or balance i'm all about it. it does that. and the game keeps kickin.. so its win win :)

[@Awesomeness-iz3dh]

The perfect example of what you said at 5:19 sums up buying cosmetics/weapon skins in Team Fortress 2 perfectly. There is nothing more satisfying than playing a game with a super expensive hat, and knowing a lot of people think "Wow, that guy is rich and cool!"

[@grahamturner2640]

The reason I stopped playing Game of War is because I was forced to pay money to progress past base level 15. I haven’t seen that happen on other competing games I play (Guns of Glory). However, the developers of that game also constantly promote the bundles of in-game stuff they made.

[@ViDeOMaStErPaUl]

Guild Wars does it well, you can buy mini-pets, consumables, weapon and armour skins and non of it can be used in PvP so the game remains balanced. The game is constantly being updated free of charge so something is always new, so people are more than happy to pay for something to make their character unique and to support the company.

[@SinerAthin]

Well, GW2 isn't technically F2P due to the original box cost. Though I do agree, their store is a nice system.

[@SadButter]

I'd say Loadout would do this pretty well if their cosmetic item costs weren't fucking insane.

[@christophergilbert9762]

Lovely video. The toy metaphor really struck home since I personally play TF2 where most of the stuff you purchase either makes the game harder or different play style, or it gives you something cool to look at or show off.

[@Rachel-og8jy]

There was this phone game I played called Mystic Messenger that I thought definitely demonstrated the last method (at least at the time when I got it in fall of 2016). Even without paying anything at all, you could still enjoy an incredibly engaging narrative and characters in a unique dating and mystery game. Paying money simply allowed you to recover content you missed, unlock more content and storylines, or access extra content for your favorite character(s). Especially based on how much I loved the game as it was and how comparably low prices were for my hours of enjoyment, I was happy and even thrilled to pay something when I chose to.

[@deathless3518]

What's so hard to grasp? People want to pay for a game that involves you know "gaming". We play video games to play games not think about how to spend money on the game.

[@unamed1142]

To be honest. If I made a F2P game 'F2P' would not be a abbreviation for "Free to play(lies in most cases)" but instead "Fun to play(like is suggested in the video)". People are more likely to give up their money for a fun game rather than a game which is around using money to remove obstacles.

[@DodgeThisBam]

LoL and PoE do the monetization just right in my books. GW2 seems to as well except I get this nagging feeling I'm wasting the money as I could have earned it myself through grinding. I guess that stems from the "it being more fun trying to get around the monetization" you mentioned in the video.

[@caiofernando]

Omg that illustration at 1:53 is priceless lol

[@poexz]

One example I can think of is in a game called Grand Chase necklaces. (The game is a lot less fun now.) They did give stats but they were minor. What people bought them for were the neat visual effects they gave. I remember liking them so much I went to low level dungeons to show new players. (The game did not mention the necklaces to players at the time, nor explained what they did int he shop, so I showed newer ones so they would consider buying them too.) The reason I liked them was because not only did it make me feel special to have the particles shooting around but also because there was enough variety in them that I could be different from other players.

[@SuperJoshuaAguilar]

P2P isn't dead. It's just that all these mmos are boring generic shit.

[@PyroAssasin573]

Because one mmo perfected it and then many others did something related

[@NumnutSify]

+SuperJoshuaAguilar Blade and Soul... cmon now. Black Desert?

[@SuperJoshuaAguilar]

Hmmm Interesting Asian MMOs? No thanks I would rather never play games again.

[@NumnutSify]

SuperJoshuaAguilar Good, no one would want you in the gaming community anyways.

[@SuperJoshuaAguilar]

Hmmm Interesting I seriously doubt that.

[@aka_pcfx]

I just realised something... lets call it interesting: Steam, in itself, IS a F2P game. Think about it. You can download it for free, and actually have some fun with it, but the real fun starts when you invest money. And you will do so on a regular basis. Steam is the Meta F2P game wa are not realising we are playing. Or you all realised it a long time ago and I just had the epiphany X jears "too late"..

[@Ben-fx9kx]

You do realise steam in and of itself is only a game distribution service you can't actually "play" steam you can only play on steam....

[@freddyready8756]

Steam is not a game but a platform that holds free to play games and a market. I guess you could "play around" on its platform.

[@FloraOfTheCats]

yall above me seem to have missed the class on metaphors

[@KnakuanaRka]

Uh, it’s a game distributor and digital rights management system, not a game in and of itself.

[@CheshireCad]

Steam has many free games without any sort of microtransactions. It also has lots of "free weekend" promotions for non-free games. In this way, Steam encourages people to use it, without people directly spending money. But that makes it easier for it to sell them on its paid content. At that point, the line between a games distribution platform and free-to-play game becomes blurred. Here, it becomes the true Meta F2P Game.

[@tales9476]

I recently noticed an interesting solution for this issue in Fortnite. Locked behind a subscription fee are various challenges, which if completed, give the player cosmetic rewards. I find this to be an interesting abstraction from the mere association of cosmetics with premium membership. Instead, by giving the player an in-game challenge to complete, it feels much more integrated into the core experience of the game. The developers also, quite cleverly, allowed non-premium members to experience a few of these challenges without paying. By making these challenges a component of the gameplay (while still remaining secondary to the core engagement), I feel the model is far more compelling than other methods seen thus far.

[@gpt.answers]

this channel was ahead of its time

[@zeelyweely1590]

TF2 does F2P amazingly!

[@MasterMario124]

Yep

[@johnparis8435]

hats 4 sale, TF2 has hats 4 sale

[@LepidoliteMica]

+SnivyAndroid English is a context-heavy language.

[@tornadomimicyclone6707]

At least they can have a good excuse for being always-online, unlike 99% of games that do it (Assassin's Creed, anyone?).

[@stefantosic7128]

0.90 for items that are useful 39.99 for a cosmetic.

[@Vakrios]

One thing I had a really bad experience with in F2P games is...lotteries. Usually cheap packs with a number of items in them, from something barely useful to the coolest mount, costume or weapon you've ever seen. Sounds cool to a newbie, right? Yeah, so they buy some, around 10 and open all of them to find they get the most useless items. The chance of actually getting the top prize is extremely rare, 0.01% chance it seems. So people get frustrated and keep buying and buying thinking they would eventually get that top prize. $100 later and still no luck and the feeling of complete shame, you just wasted your money on items that are no where near the price you paid for them. (The worst game I've seen this in is Forsaken World, a pay to win game.) Thankfully, I never wasted too much money on these but it still ruined the game for me when I saw how hateful and competitive people were getting.

[@RestlessThoughts]

Hm, well, I guess there is a reason for the quote "Lotteries are a tax on the stupid."

[@zeroangelmk1]

Random chance is probably the only unfair thing about Guild Wars 2's pay model (everything else is fair to the player). In that game there are certain actions which cost a lot of money, time, or materials, which give you a random chance of getting something really good. The problem is that a lot of players get screwed over when they put a lot of real money into the chance to get something good, and only end up receiving bad items (ie: they are screwed over by the RNG). Lotteries in games are kind of bad in general, and developers need to pay attention to that.

[@CheshireCad]

A well-designed game will secretly tweak the odds a little bit, like real-world slot machines do. It can be as simple as a stacking 0.1% chance to get an ultra-rare item every time you roll and don't get one. That way, the player more often gets that rush of being "lucky", and is encouraged to keep chasing that high. It's still dirty and manipulative. But it's still slightly better than methods that leave the player feeling drained and used.

[@DisKorruptd]

one good F2p game i like to play is "Loadout" where money can be spent on double xp and money boosts, but doesnt have any of the weapons in the microtransactions category because it's all stuff that you've really earned, but i suppose that fits in the first category, because the only things you purchase with real money, are either the multipliers, or aesthetic outfits...

[@Kreiser_VII]

The worst thing I've experienced is the super grindy type that, while letting you keep playing for free, it's WAY too grindy to the point of exhaustion, and once you pay, you're done. There's no middle ground, you either walk extremely slow and barely make progress or you pay and end the game. I just wish Mu Online had better design, I'm glad the fanbase creates new servers each month, higher chances of doing it right.

[@l3ete1geuse]

Two words, DJ Sona!

[@Sarantserel]

Why didn't they talk about Valve's obsession with selling head wear to their player base?

[@hamtier]

because valve made a "combat-themed hat simulator"(~ gabe newell). i think that says enough about that. on a more serious note:the hats are just cosmetics which is unrelated to the progression in the game.

[@Sarantserel]

The point I wanted to make is that Valve has IMO some of the best F2P model out there since their game is free and the things they sell have absolutely no impact on gameplay, but still manage to provide them with tons of money.

[@memerizermeme5980]

Haha, Yeah. Valve enjoys selling hats. Some of them being Bananas.

[@caroswolf286]

6 years ago and this still holds up so well Good job

[@danielblack4190]

In short, the best things to monetize are cosmetic items that don't affect gameplay. Think about what people would think if they saw you boasting a Dragon Lore or an Akihabara Accept in CS:GO.

[@midimusicforever]

The money bomb thing was brilliant.

[@MsZsc]

I'm looking at you, Gaijin...

[@MsZsc]

Necro posts be like

[@blunderbus2695]

+MrZsc aren't necros only on forums tho

[@MsZsc]

life is a forum

[@summerycast7936]

Great video. I got suckered by one game online called Rumble Fighter and in total I spent over $1,000 and probably more in just a short time. It is a good game to play but without the money, you are at a high disadvantage on your own. In-game currency is so bloody taxing to earn and the learning curve depends on the player, granted it has a channel for the amount winning vs losses but veterans would troll the Amatuer channel by losing several matches through a useful glitch (which NEVER got patched, or found some new way) only to mock the new players. I was adopted by it at a young age and I grew competitive over it. The best customization was hidden behind pay-to-win walls and the EXOS were pretty unbalanced against in-game currency ones. Really forced me to pay only to look the best, have the best stats, best gear to at least stand a chance online. If you are extremely skilful, you can trump paying players just by knocking them off the ledge or waiting patiently to land each blow but this method is extremely high in risk and cut many new adopters who want to challenge those paying players. Now I am a smart consumer so I don't fall prey to that fucking disgusting thing. If F2P offers game content to expand the experience but isn't the only way to enjoy the game, then I'll give it a shot. Anyone got recommendations? ;3

[@joon9498]

1000? thats possible? you must be a pro by now

[@summerycast7936]

joon9498 Not even, the average "pro" spends more than 30k in a year. Those are some REAL~ whales. Also I am given an advantage till they release YET another advantage with op stats, invincibility frames and crazy reaches with next to no effort.

[@krazykris9396]

The first flaw perfectly describes what happned with overwatch 1 (free lootboxes that were so generous that you had no need to buy them), and the second flaw perfectly descibed overwatch 2 (an underwhelming battlepass with very expensive skins).

[@Terker2]

The best 2 F2P-models i can think of right now are: Path of Exile and TF2

[@Terker2]

TrueWOPR Do you play tf2 a lot? The newest items are rarely the best, and nobody uses the pee gun :D

[@Terker2]

TrueWOPR yeah but why open crates? it's not needed in any way? Opening creates is just for people that seek for unusuals and Star_

[@W4rr1orZ]

TrueWOPR Looks to me like you have 3 crates. I don't see much of a problem in this at all.

[@MrAnthonyDraft]

TrueWOPR Can I ask the reason on why you think LoL does F2P right? I can see why Path of Exile, but LoL? There are better F2P models than LoL IMO, ie. PoE.

[@Terker2]

MrAnthonyDraft LoL is pretty good on the free to play part, the only thing you can actually do to get an edge over someones are runes, runes are achived with IP an ingame currency that can't be buyed with RL-money. And all you need to succed in this game are 2 rune sets, because the impact of runes is extreemly small.

[@owenmcgrath1127]

you could make only players that have a high enough level able to buy something to make it look better

[@ourboyroy9398]

TF2 does this fairly well imo. Being a premium member only gets you access to hats, which are never required and as of now provide no benefits to premium player (other than amazing fashion.) If you remain F2P than you lose no gameplay elements. You can't trade and your backpack space is limited, but if you play on christmas, you get a item to increase your back pack space.

[@freyadraginda-burnett9781]

Valve did this quite well, with TF2, they made it free to play, but added ALOT of really cool DLCs, like awesome taunts that others can join in on, often causing a server-wide impromptu dance party, or something like that, and when you see paying players using there taunts, like the katotski kick, you want to get them too, because it is extremely fun to cause these small pockets of secret dance parties, witch then balloon out of control, encompassing the entire server sometimes

[@omegasavant]

Fallen London is great at this -- it's the only free-to-play game where I've ever chosen to pay up. You can subscribe for a few dollars a month, which gets a new story and more actions each month, but you don't have to. You can also spend Fate on a variety of things (unique items, recovery from death or exile, and so on) but you don't have to, and it's not slowed down to force the matter. The big thing is that Fate can be spent to buy unique stories. These are huge, but again, you can get through the whole game without feeling deprived of you don't pay for them. I only started paying 2 years in, after I'd finally managed to get through every story in the game. I wish more companies followed that philosophy of making paid content parallel to the free content, not in competition with it.

[@EpsilonA789]

League does it very well too, like said in the video. As far as I'm concerned most people spend their RP on skins, and other champions. Sure we have boosts too, but that doesn't affect the game overall. You could be level 30 by buying boosts and still be bad at the game. I personally get really excited when I buy a new skin for a champion :)

[@Poetabrasileiro]

To add to your perspective. Often, Skins ADD to the playinig experience. You're not only showing that you can buy skins, but often, they have a lot of new quotes, new effects, in character relationships and special lines they say to each other. All this add to the experience immersing the player in the game much more.

[@poexz]

Poetabrasileiro ... are you on crack? I have not heard of one skin that adds to character to character interaction. Also League lore is a pile of crap now. Lastly the only skins that add new lines are legendary skins which are about 20 dollars.

[@Poetabrasileiro]

***** It's about those that i'm talking about. Udyr have special quotes that he says when around another champions. Anivia also has some quotes too. And many champions, like Yasuo Taunting Riven, even the new Gnar have some interactions with soe champions. (I Heard that he mocks nocturne when he ults. :3) That said. That's just some exemples to you. Oh, and saying someone is on crack is rude. Stop it.

[@thevannmann]

LoL does NOT do it well. They lock champs behind a pay or grind wall. Dota 2 does it better.

[@steeledminer616]

+Teh Vanarch I haven't played League in a LONG time, but I still own about 70% of the champions and I only bought 1 with RP ever. It's not that bad of a grind-wall.

[@montregloe]

Best current example I can think of is Halo 5, most everything you can buy can be squired purely through playing, but also most everything that can be acquired is cosmetic. All the funding from this gives everyone free dlc, and it just works, and you can see the love put into the game through people who play and pay or just pay for fun with small rewards along the way.

[@JuFated]

Tvtrope uses the term: Bribing your way to victory as money will literally beak whatever challenge there was.

[@canskntsfalan5430]

It's very interesting actually, because Helltaker did something seriously different than others. Step 1- Make free-to-play game Step 2- Create happy and loyal consumer base (yes, this is loyal consumers term from marketing) Step 3- Publish an art book (and pancake recipe?) for donations

[@JamesR624]

Yeah. These solutions are awful. People don't want to spend money in games because we CAN'T AFFORD IT. All of these solutions and in fact, respecting F2P AT ALL, requires one thing we don't have. A healthy, stable economy. F2P really, at it's core, is just a way for companies to get EVEN MORE MONEY. I would MUCH rather have a game cost $2.99 or $19.99 and get the complete game. Not get 1/100th of a game for free and have to keep paying and paying. F2P, when you do the math, is using the same concept as cellular contracts. Making you pay more than what is reasonable while making it SEEM like you're getting a good deal. It's crooked and horrible, no matter what excuses this video presents. F2P has a bad reputation for a REASON. Not because developers are "doing it bad" but because it is a crooked and bad concept in itself. And no. We DON'T "enjoy" paying like that. We pay because we have to or to support developers. I'd much rather pay full price for a game to support a developer than have all these micro-transactions. If you try to make it "fun to spend money in your game", I'll still turn away because I see past that bullshit, much like many people are seeing through the bullshit of cellular contracts. It also introduces "class wars" just like we have in american society. Why should I bother with a game when instead of being able to buy it and just use SKILL to get better and better, I have to pay up instead? Or why should I bother when a bunch of rich newbies can just get better stuff because they happen to be richer. The kids that have money to throw away on games, automatically get better stuff and further in the game than honest hard working people who just splurged on a game a bit to give themselves a TINY bit of enjoyment in this horrible economy. Using money to get to a better place and making that a requirement instead of practice and skill, just hurts consumers in society AND gamers in games.

[@poexz]

You are severely wrong. The model of one time payment works fine if the audience only intends to pay a week. If you want to make a game last longer that model will never work. For an mmo having everything with a one time payment would be suicide for that company.

[@Polaris5664]

I have 2 problems: Grind wall for fundamentals (classes/weapons) Knowing you wont be able to own the whole game makes me lose interest! NO SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES! Monthly payments for owning the whole experience SUUUCCK! If you want to have a premium version just use a free demo/full version model!

[@pupseal1154]

i made a f2p game that microtransactions are used to skip grinding for a weapon. the paid version is slightly better or equal. for example the snoball gun is a rare drop from angry snowmen does 24 damage and stuns for 1 second OR you can buy the snowy shuriken laucher for 50 cents which does 24 damage stuns for 1 second and has peircing shots that can hit up to 2 enemies

[@TheGamingLord77]

Has anyone found out what game had the money bomb in it yet? I have been searching for awhile and found nothing. I haven't even seen a comment that knows yet. Someone has to have played it before.

[@mikemillhoff8967]

Yeah! I need to be able to throw a bomb of world happiness on the ground!

[@tortture3519]

SychoticGamer The only place where I've seen a money bomb in is minecraft server called mineplex. They most likely didn't come up with that idea.

[@HagoAnimations]

Tortture copied it from hypixel or something xdd

[@burningcoalsanimation9970]

Trove?

[@wutevaidc]

Anybody know the name of that Korean MMO?

[@DavidDagninoV]

Pokémon Go did ONE THING right according to this video: LURE MODULES. They are won in certain level ups but mostly exist as an item in the store and they provide a benefit of luring pokemon to one pokestops for half an hour and EVERYONE, including the owner, can see it and is benefited by it. This rapidly became the most used item in many cities, sometimes even by store owners who wanted to increase foot traffic to their stores. It is satisfactory to go to a place with some friends and install a lure module or even find other players in the area and make new friends.

[@GaudyMarko]

i used to play a text based RPG game called New World's Ateran and to some extent it had a good pay model because there was a special in game shop that used real money to buy mostly trivial novelties like a toy with no real applications beyond personal intrigue like a coin that you could flip and generate heads or tails which was nice for actual role playing. But where i felt the game broke down was how they had different tiers to the shop and you needed to spend a whopping 750$ just to be allowed to purchase some 30$ items on the gold tier, this created huge inflation in the community because it meant one of the big spenders could buy something there and then put it up for auction and effectively make enough in game money to buy a house.

[@KazeAizen]

He is totally right about League of Legends. They focused on making a fun and great experience first and then made it so the only thing people would have to pay for are the skins. With all the diverse champions and interesting themed skins players would find that one champ or that one skin for them they'd be willing to buy. Just because they loved that champion or design. I mean I love Ashe and when she got a new Heartseeker skin this past year you bet I jumped at the chance. Same for Ahri and her popstar skin.

[@xionaxa]

Yes, because playing seventy games to unlock one character in a game is totally fun and not a strategy to rake in more money.

[@KazeAizen]

xionaxa Sounds like someone is sore. Honestly I think its a decent design philosophy. Give the kids all the tools in the garage and they won't know what to start with and it'll take forever for them to get good with it. Give them a select few for a little bit, let them try it out, once they find what they like and are good with it they can keep it.

[@brightnooblar4810]

xionaxa Its not a mandatory wall. You're not forced to start paying if you really don't want to. But it still gives you a reason to want to spend some money. Its a fair balance. I mean, if everyone had everything for free, it would fall into category one, and stop being a game.

[@ShiniHLaser]

xionaxa 70 games? Hold on, let's debunk your math a bit. Since it is nearly impossible (nearly, mind you) to play 70 normal games in the span of a single day, if you were aiming to earn one of the newer champions in the game (6300 IP), you would be doing this across the course of probably 2 weeks. If you were to get the First Win of the Day every day for 14 days, that means you will need to earn 4200 IP, or 300 IP a day. Now, from personal experience, you will earn on average 65 IP a game which means you would have to play 4.6 games (and assuming 30 minutes a game on average, 138 minutes) a day, or 60 games if you really wanted to earn one of the most brand spanking new champs. That is if you wanted to grind it in a 2 week period. Make it a three week period (since the release schedule for Riot seems to be around once a month nowadays), you are looking at maybe just over an hour a day if you wanted and around 40-45 games. However, there is a metric fuckton of champs, most of them not at the highest price point. For the same 6300 IP, you can buy every single one of the champs that cost 450 and probably pick up a 1350 IP champ. If you get to the point where the only champions that you have left to buy are the 6300 IP champs, let alone the 4800 IP champs, you have probably put enough hours in the game such that you probably do owe Riot a dime because they probably provided you a lot more entertainment than a lot of games. Now, while I may be wrong, you seem to be coming from the DotA2 perspective where every champion is immediately unlocked and the only things you can get are purely cosmetic. Except that model only works for two reasons: A. The DotA1/2 community, while there are lot of rational people, there is also a large base who are such fanboys to the point they were shitting on any other MOBA as being a "lite" version and that their game was superior. They obviously would do nothing but play DotA2 as soon as they either got a beta key or had full access, because they think they are having the "purest" experience. B. Valve has successfully made a whole entire business model where a LARGE chunk of their revenue is from user created content, something that most companies cannot do without the years of brand loyalty that Valve has built up. When people are so willing to spend money on user created content like they are, Valve doesn't need to lift too many fingers in order to have access to cash. The DotA2 model is not a realistic model from a game being built from the ground up. The DotA2 model could not realistically exist for any of the many, many MOBAs that have spawned over the past 5 years, whether it is League of Legends, Super Monday Night Combat, Infinite Crisis, whatever. Most of us are grateful that Riot at least made a fair business model. You want a few champs? Just play a couple of games and bam. Want the newest people in the game? Then grind a little or if you really, really want, help support the game. As someone who has probably played nearly 2000 hours of League in the past 4 years, I don't mind putting a dollar or two towards them for skins, champion bundles, or whatever the bloody hell they offer from time to time. I've put something like $400 over the course of the 4 years including gifts to other players (friends and family). That is still 5 hours of enjoyment for every dollar I've played a minimum - a value that is very, very lucrative nowadays in the gaming industry. Most games, if you can get a 1 hour:$1 ratio, you are lucky. There is a reason why League is so bloody successful. It isn't because they are as extortionists like you claim. It is because they provide a very good product and only ask the community to pay for some cosmetic items or a speed up of sorts from time to keep the server hamsters running and the developers well fed. And I am more than willing to oblige. KazeAizen Sorry for kind of jacking this from you, but I think the post was worth it.

[@KazeAizen]

ShiniHLaser No its fine. I agree with all your points. I have a friend who makes it a point to put down League every chance he gets in front of me just to spite me. He always claims DoTA 2 is better and that being one of the reasons why. They give you everything for free from the start. I mean to have a free to play business model that not only makes you money but also allow you to create a game that became bigger than WoW (at least last I checked) the undisputed king of online games for god knows how many years. That is impressive as hell. Considering its also Riots only game and that makes it that much more impressive. They've devoted 100% to League and the community. Something a lot of other games don't have the luxury of. And you know they are human and funny as well because why else would URF mode exist? Break the game and make everyone OP. That's a freaking Riot. (pun intended)

[@Jimpiedepimpie]

Or, you could just sell your game for 15 bucks and not include any microtransactions. Keeps the slavs and brazillians out and in the long run it won't hurt you.

[@johnwbh]

Echo Bazaar (who EC recommend back in one of their earlist episodes) had a good mmodel, you could pay for a special membership that gave you extra actiions per day and gave you access to some extra questlines, but you could still level as high as you liked without paying.

[@atlas7736]

I know several people have already mentioned it, but Team Fortress 2 did Free to Play really well. Everything is exactly the same as a paying player, the only difference being a much larger inventory space. It would force free players to delete items, but because of the game's Item Drop system, there wasn't any reason to worry, as drop could come by and they could use the item again.

[@shadic555]

5:28 You spelled Dota 2 wrong.

[@FunkyGhost37]

You talk about bad F2P systems, then you list LoL as a good example. Hysterical.

[@pao126]

stickdiggler Because it requires a shit-ton of grinding to unlock content.

[@oafkad]

pao126 But the only way to get it is to play the game >.>. If you aren't playing the game then why do you want any of the stuff? I'm not even fond of LOL but the little bit of time I spent playing it I unlocked all the heroes I wanted. It seems like a solid plan. For people who like LOL it only gets better the more they play it. The more they play it the more they get too, so I feel like it all works out nicely.

[@pao126]

stickdiggler 3 reasons. 1) Their friends used to play it, they have more content unlocked/they don't mind, so they follow them. 2) The grind actually makes you stay, since you've invested time/money into it. 3) It's easy to get into and basic for the average and casual gamer. It's not popular only because of its business model.

[@SpanishBroomaker]

Grind to actually play the game (get champions, masteries, summoner spells, runes), or pay to get these faster or instantly.

[@pao126]

TheExpiated That's not really fair towards the non-paying player.

[@thaddeushamlet]

"Something that you want to own, just for the sake of owning it." [looks over at Tiny Box Tim plushie] I mean, the charity part was really just a bonus incentive.

[@slendy9600]

fallen london also does f2p really well, buying fate or becoming an exceptional friends feels more like getting monthly dlc than pushing past a paywall. yet another reason to love fallen london :D

[@Volaths]

League of legends do this really really well, even if you don't like the game you have to give them credit for how excited the new skins/champions make you feel. Well they have that effect on me anyway. I want to spend the money on these things and I'm more than happy to do so.

[@Garblegox]

F2P game gone wrong: Runescape. It's a fun game, but don't pretend it's playable for free. If you want to get anything done, you must subscribe.

[@leodaza2151]

I don't know how it is nowadays, but back in the day one of my friends who was a free player used to pwn all the members in the wildie, he had no interest in the other stuff in the game though, so paying really wasn't something he wanted.

[@tufuiegoeris]

I played RuneScape as a free player for 5-6 years and got barely level 90s. It was an achievement in itself to get 70 crafting using silver crafting, and that took like 13200 tiaras. Then I subscribed to p2p when I finally got debit card access, created a new lvl-1 everything account to use with that p2p privileges, and had max level (99) in every skill plus 113 dungeoneering within 14 months of light play. It's not even funny how different the experience is. I could have had 120 within another 1-2 more months, but the fact that the gameplay between those levels don't really change any more at all and it required too much reliance on unreliable players to form workable parties with for max xp rates made me just leave the game there. I actually got 113 by soloing medium dungeons in

[@electrickid2]

Ryuu Shun Hayashi Runescape also became much easier in general for both f2p and p2p as time went on. Getting all 99s wasn't so easy back in the day. And with a second account you had a clear focus on leveling and knew what you were doing so you can't credit it all to p2p. But i do agree with you about the Squeal of Fortune type updates. And from what i heard now you can buy gold and xp through Jagex themselves (correct me if i'm wrong). They did it right in the earlier stages of the game, but it really did die once they got greedy.

[@RealDownTownShit]

Oh please. Club Penguin, mate.

[@lackofwords]

@ 5:50 funny how a slight change of scenery and context of this design in H1Z1 makes the players froth with rage against the developers

[@kam833]

If we speak of cosmetics look at TEAM FORTRES 2 there are thousands of cosmetics and the in game hat economy is massive Like the most expensive thing you can buy on the tf2 market place is a golden fring pan that can cost up to 2500 dollars last time i chekt