Extreme Wealth Will Destroy Democracy

[@Randomguy-x7t]

As a British citizen this is an incredible conversation, it has history, depth, knowledge and respectfully informal information that I and over 40% of the population could do with watching and learning. This podcast compared to the drivel that comes from the chambers of the leaders of the country is second to none. Thank you 🙏🏻

[@daveuk1324]

Totally agree!

[@andrewkingdon2000]

Isn't this what happened in the British civil war? We fought the King and the royals only to put a absolute leader (Cromwell) who started off ok but ended up as a tyrant. Long story short we restored the monarchy (constitutionally) as a check and balance to parliament being lead by a dictator. So I wonder if the real solution is to always have checks and balances built into the system.

[@kevinu.k.7042]

It really makes me wonder why our government is so crap when we have people like this around. Very excellent. Thank you guys.

[@kalebdaark100]

Because the people saying don't tax rich people are better funded.

[@kidkal7825]

because Martin Wolf writes for the FT. Nuf said

[@kevinu.k.7042]

@@kidkal7825 He was quite progressive in his views in this presentation.

[@andrewkingdon2000]

I believe that the incentive to become a politician is not there unless you are in it either to make money or to feed a power craze. Neither are particularly good reasons to go into politics in my opinion.

[@curt3494]

Brilliant episode. There is a lot of crossover between economics, finance, history, politics, geography, etc. and it's great to hear it discussed in episodes like this 👍

[@bigtree6992]

“The only real wealth tax we have at the moment (inheritance tax) is one in which the ONLY people who don’t pay it is the richest” 😡

[@richardmunday2608]

It’s so regressive

[@silver.4245]

Loved his point on brexit. He didn’t patronise those that voted for it while articulating why someone would vote for it.

[@SassySkylar]

Martin should do a joint interview with Gary Economics!

[@daveuk1324]

Totally! That would be a crowd gatherer!

[@NO-ahr-jee-BAHR-jee]

What a terrific discussion! Wish we had more discussions like this on mainstream platforms and could get people on board to thinking differently. Great work guys!

[@asmerom3025]

A wonderfully comprehensive presentation of our predicament. Hopeful ,optimistic ; lots of solutions and satisfyingly inspiring. Not forgetting the pitfalls that lie ahead. Stimulating.

[@grahambacon5449]

Absolutely fantastic, Martin is an absolutely fantastic speaker, such a clear presentation of events and the current world situation.

[@jonathanbayley1551]

I disagree with Wolf that raising corporation tax on the largest, most profitable companies would have a bad effect overall. Higher corporation tax leads to greater investment spending as the companies would rather reinvest their profits into the business than have them taxed; and investment fuels growth and, usually, employee salaries, too.

[@DanRobards]

You can just tell this fella is SMART. Different gravy

[@ch0293]

Did you vote rishi sunak? Dysfunctional democracy he means?

[@pimptoking]

You vote for the party and its manifesto, not just the leader. This democracy works as it should ​@ch0293

[@psychicpsy7524]

What an incredibly intelligent guy, absolute bank of knowledge!

[@dm_psych_]

Incredible discussion, props to getting more credible and knowledgeable guests on, this podcast gets better and better 💪

[@MarkCW]

Martin Wolf articulated himself very well and this was a very good quality discussion. You would not get this quality of discussion on the mainstream media. One area I disagree with Martin about is taxing the corporations e.g. Amazon. Martin was on the side of the rich here and tried to steer the conversation away from taxing capital to taxing income which always affects the working and middle classes. Although to be fair to Martin he did suggest taxing people like the Duke of Westminster who pay no tax because their capital is hidden in trusts. There should be low levels of income tax for the working and middle classes and a 1% tax on the capital of the rich with net assets above £5 million. Yes, it will affect rich pensioners and stockholders, but that's the point. It would create more equality and increase productivities as the working and middle classes would consume more. Particular focus should be on offshore trusts that have a value of £10 to £100 trillion currently. Universal Basic Capital (UBC) would be better than Universal Basic Income (UBI) because people would have stocks in corporations that can accumulate in value.

[@AKAMustang]

Perhaps I misunderstood, but my interpretation was that taxing corporations will just pass the cost on to consumers, effectively taxing the working and middle class. Better to tax the inequality directly, e.g. c-suite, bankers bonuses, etc. The part I most disagreed with was the 100k inheritance tax idea, to me this seems directed more at middle class than elites and should be a lot higher, e.g. 1 or 2 million, to promote prosperity and aspiration.

[@jam99]

It's simply not true that no tax is paid on trusts. They are largely used so that people keep some control of the money or put some rules on it. The same IHT rules apply whether you give your assets away to a trust, or you give it away to a relative: after 7years it is out of your estate. There, you've avoided IHT by gifting. A lot of people seem to shout about rich people saving tax with trusts but you hear very few complaints about the rich giving their money away before they die. Odd.

[@MarkCW]

@@jam99 Yes, I'm familiar with the gifting rule, a friend of mine told me about it a few years ago. It's a great way to avoid paying IHT as long as you live for 7 years after gifting your assets. Is it expensive to set up a trust? I'm assuming you mean a UK trust rather than an offshore trust? So fair point that you pay some tax. I guess most people aren't familiar with the UK tax rules as they are so complicated. When I bought a family home I was shocked that it was owned in the BVI along with several other properties by a wealthy family and they didn't have to pay any capital gains tax. A lot of the best properties in London are owned by offshore trusts. I'm guessing paying for a good lawyer to set up an offshore in the City of London or Jersey isn't cost effective for most people and you'd have to prove that you are domiciled in another country. The UK seems to be struggling at the moment and I was just thinking of ways to reduce inequality because the working and middle classes pay record amounts of income tax and the rich tend to manage capital rather than drawing large incomes.

[@Marenqo]

A very impressive guest, but I am afraid that it may go over the heads of most of your audience... An assessment confirmed by a brief look at the dismissive but little substantial comments. Glad and grateful that you do this sort of more academic thing.

[@Shepz-123]

You remind me of Jacob Rees-Mogg.

[@kevinu.k.7042]

You have two good replies. This is another tack. America has too many people who are effectively excluded from the economy. This leads to high levels of crime and high levels of violent crime. The very poor also become disease pools which re-infect the rest of the population. Unpacking the last point: Those who only get a little medical treatment, or none, form a pool of people developing treatment resistant strains. Tuberculosis is a case in point. There are also higher prison populations. In the U.K. poverty leads to higher demand on the health services too. Not alleviating poverty is very expensive indeed.

[@josephmcconnell8905]

I think this could be the smarmiest thing I've ever read

[@Picopulci]

@@josephmcconnell8905 Joseph McConnell, I agree! He does not want you to know the truth! Do you think he is WEF?

[@Shepz-123]

Really interesting discussion and thoroughly enjoyed this along with many of your other interviews, keep up the great work guys 👍👏👏👏👏

[@MeatyMountain]

Excellent discussion, i found this guest really interesting and clearly knows his stuff

[@lplate1000]

Another fantastic guest. Some of the suggested fixes made me think “but how would we stop the transfer of wealth to the rich again”. For me this nailed a lot of how we have got to where we are, and the challenges we face.

[@emmajoy831]

Tax

[@Llian_C]

Yup scrap some add others. Maybe get rid of council tax and introduce property tax based on the value of the property. Higher capital gains tax over a threshold. Maybe look at some offshore loopholes. It might make us a less enticing for overseas investment but education in investing and maybe some reforms to state pension could help address that. (why not set aside an amount for a person's state pension when they are younger and let 60 years of interest do the heavy lifting.)

[@amsndahambling4084]

You could divide all wealth equally and the have nots would soon end up with nothing and the haves would work to increase what they were given.

[@andresgarciacastro1783]

@@amsndahambling4084 Nobody is arguing for this. You're fighting a strawman.

[@jacquiwilson9129]

Wonderful, thought-provoking interview with an outstanding guest.

[@tridau]

Excellent guest and fascinating discussion. Thanks for getting Martin on for us 🙏🏻

[@getreal7964]

This is a great channel now Damo, people really seeing the big picture from Feudalism via Populism to Authoritarianism explaining that the real problems are lack of equal Democracy and increasing Inequality. The only thing missing was the rapidly increasing scarcity of Resources and the increasingly significant destabilisation of the Environment...

[@daveuk1324]

Agree 100%

[@Abdul_Rahman86]

What a wonderful podcast. This man certainly is interesting. I disagreed with a lot of what he says but it’s important to listen to the view point of others.

[@ijw2009]

I agree with him on virtually everything he said.... in particular on Brexit. I voted for Brexit as it was basically a punt on something else, a chance of something better vs basically keep things crappy as they were. Now 4 years have passed since implementation of the EU deal and it does look like it hasn't really delivered: Legal Immigration for example is higher than ever, holding down wages and we haven't secured a trade deal with the United States, i.e. the two things it was argued would happen: tighter control of immigration / trade deals with the rest of the world. It's impact on my own personal life to be honest is really minimal as my wife and I don't work in roles where international trade is a factor. For me, I can still travel there with minimal fuss, but now golden visas have been withdrawn from Spain/Portugal, etc, it does have an impact on my future plan to retire in the sun easily and that i'm not keen on. After 4 years, I don't really think it's been worth all the hassle (Brexit) and now would vote to go back to the way it was if it were to be offered, however I really don't think we would now be offered a return on the same terms (rebate, no-Euro currency, etc) that we previously had so I can't ever see that happening now. Probably better to try and get home a customs union and closer alignment as if the US doesn't want a friction-free deal with us, I don't see what other choice there is as without membership on some form of a strategic partnership we are truly are drifting towards irrelevance.

[@thebee6142]

Wake up Brexit was never given it’s just like the government money laundering with French government to stop the boats 600million but they came fast over the channel. Criminals wake up

[@daveuk1324]

I agree with you. I suspect 70-80% of those that voted for Brexit would change their minds if another vote were to be offered - which it won't as you said. It was one big con and we fell for it! And that has severely damaged trust in politics. Wave goodbye to that retirement in the sun buddy 😂😂😂

[@ijw2009]

@@daveuk1324 Its still doable, but not as easy as just buying a €500k property and job done... either it's the 90 day thing or apply for PR which will obviously cost more and be a headache.

[@daveuk1324]

@@ijw2009 My son is applying for a "non lucrative" visa which means he can't work but can live with mates for longer than 90 days apparently. Have you looked into that route?

[@thebee6142]

@@daveuk1324 I actually agree with the principal of Brexit but I said from the start these politicians will not give you what you wanted. I personally don’t vote at all because I know the massive corruption of the so called elites. One big party and you’re not part of it.

[@Banthah]

Where do you find these guests?! This guy was superb! Great conversation guys keep it up!

[@kayleyedwards7141]

Another great discussion. Keep them coming lads

[@cybermuse6917]

This was fire. Gonna watch a second time and buy the book!

[@debra1030]

Really enjoyed this episode. Thank you.

[@nathan13674]

Fantastic conversation. Please ask Martin to return to the podcast!

[@anitakay_]

Really love the pivot this podcast has taken, another one to add to the reading list! Fantastic guest!

[@JoeeyTheeKangaroo]

Exteme wealth? I don't have somewhere to live yet. Rich people are going to need to pay taxes soon or they will get the Marie Antoinette treatment

[@adi6293]

They do pay taxes though 😅 I know this is hard to hear because you have scumbags who dodge them but as a whole they pay a lot in

[@tinanolan1485]

@@adi6293I’m afraid they don’t. I worked in private client for a firm that acted for the very rich.

[@ratttttyyy]

@@adi6293 yeah, isn't it something like the top 5% pay 30% of taxes (or something)

[@Abdul_Rahman86]

Let’s face it the people who don’t pay taxes are those who choose to avoid work and live on benefits. They’re the most cut throat, narcissistic and sociopathic people ever. Highly entitled mentality and content with draining resources at the expense of people who work and the state. Their behaviour is actively encouraged and they’re rewarded with allowances, free healthcare, free housing, discounts, priority when it comes to privileges.

[@adi6293]

@@ratttttyyy I think it top 10% pay 50% but I'm not sure exactly would need to look it up again

[@jamesmulrooney3309]

So interesting, the future is very uncertain, what will happen to trade, democracy, living standards and personal freedom

[@DrBenVincent]

Excellent interview. Universal Basic Income doesn't work as the money will just flow where it already flows. Universal Basic Services is the way forward. Though the interview falls prey to a lot of "government as household" thinking and you get tied up in how to pay for it in taxes. But the government isn't a household - it issues its own currency. If a government wanted to increase expenditure on then it doesn't need to raise taxes to do that. Though you may well have to think about how to drain extra funds out of the system.

[@jirwin32]

If you want to increase expenture as in pay for things that are not investments like houses, as outlined by Martin. You need to increase taxes saying otherwise is just wrong. As you suggest to just print more currency, have you not looked at Argentina. A country with great nateral resources and been mismanaged for last 80 years or so. Also look at Turkey. Printing currency just causing inflation as your currency devalues and anyone with assets losses and it just keeps going on causing everyone to get poorer appart from the really rich as they can place there wealth in other currencies. So ineffective causing inflation by printing money is a tax on everyone as the value of their money waste away, it a tax with no benifit to anyone unless you got lots of fixed term debt which drive up very quickly.

[@DrBenVincent]

@@jirwin32 plenty has been written about the limitations of the quantity theory of money. It’s worth taking a look. Interesting stuff.

[@palmtree-e2l]

A brilliant episode. What an amazing gentleman. Thank you all.

[@MahmoudAhmed-oq2dn]

one of the best episodes so far, love the podcast

[@minimad8793]

upscaling the interviewees eh. nice one guys. very interesting to watch.

[@Kitty-lj7eg]

Great interview!! Really spot on!!

[@gothenburg83]

Another brilliant episode.

[@SpectrumGeeks]

Fantastic guest, well done for another great episode.

[@theguy9067]

The idea of separating wealth and power is like separating space and time. It is completely nonsensical. Fundamentally, real wealth is power within reason and vice versa. Just depends on what the wealthy choose to control

[@Marenqo]

You are making the case for regulation, something that Smith himself argued for. What's your point?

[@theguy9067]

"a democratic system is one in which wealth does not determine power" He implies here that it can or should be any other way. I am saying these are, have always been and always be interlinked. No I am not arguing for regulation. Regulation of what? Regulation of wealth? Thats communism. If the idea is to regulate how rich candidates can be, thats not democratic surely. Democracy is a farce anyway

So many negative comments in less than 1h of the video going live. Do people have time machines now and can watch the video, form a full opinion and then come back to comment?

[@Marenqo]

They are proving the point what he said about the democracies in the beginning. Unknowingly, the comments provide immediate evidence to his reference to Platos concerns

[@peterhar74]

The modern capitalist system is essentially summed up as trickle-up economics. Money always flows up to the super-rich.

[@DavidHarrison-o4p]

Brilliant discussion!

[@McInerneyEoin]

Not everyone agrees that the primary purpose of government is to take care of the most vulnerable. That is a left wing position not a given. The right wing position is that the purpose of government is to create an even playing field. If you fail on that even playing field, then that is a you problem, not societies problem. If you can't start from there, you can't have an honest conversation.

Isn't that the same thing? Leveling the playing field by giving everyone the same level of opportunity regardless of their parents wealth, their health or their origin?

[@Marenqo]

"Not everyone agrees that the primary purpose of government is to take care of the most vulnerable. That is a left wing position not a given" this is fundamentally untrue. Adam Smith did not accept inequality as a necessary trade-off for a more prosperous economy. A fair distribution of taxation was key to the soundness of the English economy in Smith. The rich, he claimed, should be taxed “something more than in proportion” to their wealth. “The inequality of the worst kind” was when taxes must “fall much heavier upon the poor than upon the rich.” The reasons were not moral. Bad taxes were simply bad economics.

[@carolinesaunders8603]

Government need to get more council houses built and the councils need to KEEP THEM for renting for families as they are ASSETS!!!

[@jimmychill2769]

Excellent guest! Really interesting stuff.

[@bosnabob]

Regarding the question about universal basic income and taxing corporations, I get that the extra tax will probably deter investment etc, but there was no mention of how much economic stimulation might occur from everyone getting an extra few quid to spend, would that in any way offset the hit on business investment? It's hard to gauge these arguments as a none expert, I look back at what was said about things like the introduction of the minimum wage before that was reality, we discount the criticism of that ad absurd now but at the time it obviously seemed reasonable.

[@chrismunt8443]

Anti protectionist, but also anti Brexit. For me, those two things appear to be mutually exclusive. Given that the EU is very protectionist.

[@MarkCW]

Wow, you've now got a Bilderberg attendee, I'm impressed!

[@zortzsborgnine3983]

LMAO.....get the tin foil hat out .....they're come for ya........🤣🤣🤣

[@progressivebusiness4537]

Very well put except I’m FAR more worried about far left and centrist demagogs than far right.

[@Abdul_Rahman86]

100%!! The far left is absolutely obsessed with taking all the resources for themselves so they can “distribute” it via their own policies whilst simultaneously subsidising the laziest and least productive in society at the expense of the most hardworking

[@OpenDoorEnglish]

A quick review of 20th century history will probably show you that both extremes are equally harmful.

[@kevinu.k.7042]

I fear them all. Once they cement their power they're usually populists and pretty much the same.

[@daveuk1324]

@@OpenDoorEnglish Agreed - they meet at 180 degrees!

[@tinanolan1485]

He’s WEF

[@Marenqo]

Who gives a f***? Have you read his book? Do you make dismiss Marxism because of the Soviet Union? Do you refuse Hayek because you don't like capitalism? Do you decide to remain stupid because you prefer to puke reactionary and reductionist opinions rather than use you read and think about complexity, structure and contingency?

[@MUNRO13]

And you can tell.

[@Marenqo]

The fact that that is all you can say is telling

[@tinanolan1485]

@@MarenqoThe fact that this is your response suggests a lack of research.

[@Marenqo]

@@tinanolan1485 That is true, have not been on facebook for ages.

[@MrAbhijitPatel]

Another great podcast. You should get Gary Stevenson on!

[@thesoftanchors]

Sounds like we can’t instigate wealth tax as wealthy can use their power to stop it which is a danger to our democracy. Everyone should have a UBI, there’s no need for sick and disabled to miss out there, the question is what do we do about the unequal balance of power?

[@keithclunk3125]

Just like Private Frazer in Dad's Army .. We're doomed!

[@voidwraithprime8521]

Great conversation.

[@robbie609]

How does this video describe extreme wealth destroying democracy?? No link that extreme wealth = demagogy or further influence in democracy

[@robbie609]

No evidence or explanation

[@tombarker2949]

I think that he means that by creating extreme inequality - and this has objectively gone up. This creates a fertile ground for demagogues and hence can lead to the consequences of demagogues eroding democracy

[@ch0293]

Democracy an illusion

[@cybermuse6917]

I'm only 10 minutes in and this is amazing content!

[@lawsonium]

Because it plays to your pre-existing biases? Yeah, thought so.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

46:24 just a quick error made here investment is pre tax, and works the opposite way. Increasing tax will incentives a company to have less profits, so that they can keep more money and a way to reduce profits is to invest it in the company. It is one of the reason for the rapid growth when we had the highest rate of tax as investment was so high.

[@lawsonium]

I'm sorry but this guy is mad. He wants the government to compulsorily purchase land, probably from farmers, for "agricultural value" then sell that at "market rate" to developers to build houses to continue to house the millions of immigrants we are suffering from. This guy IS the problem.

[@apoch2001]

We should tax earned income a flat 20% for everyone. Keep it simple. Tax assets... Dividends, capital gains, land. Any money brought into the country comes in with a tax credit to encourage FDI. Any money repatriated out of the country is taxed heavily unless an equivalent amount is invested to improve productivity.

[@ratttttyyy]

We need 5% of GDP just to the fix the potholes, let alone UBI! Joking aside, have to agree on borrowing to build social housing. Imagine what could have been done with borrowing to invest at 0% interest rates.

[@daveuk1324]

Just like the government did in Covid to give "grants" to the wealthy!

[@ads-porewealth96]

Great podcast chaps. Love how Martin turned up in a shirt and tie. Feel like though, he talked about basically taxing the middle class MORE. and increasing pension contributions… how is anyone supposed to pay for anything in their lives day to day? Used Singapore as an example … top rate of tax 22% and you have to be earning over $1m to get there

[@sang3Eta]

The wealth and income gap started in 1971 when Nixon ended the gold backed dollar. Ever since wealth has been transfered from the working class via inflation (money supply growth).

[@avipatable]

Sad to see this chap has TDS. Oh well. Just watched Tucker talking to a small business owner on Amazon... we have many problems - and it is a fine example of what Gary from Gary's economics talks about.

[@zortzsborgnine3983]

I had to look up TDS on google 🙄🙄....Tucker should have stayed in Russia with his best mate and probably your idol pootin....🤣🤣

[@avipatable]

@@zortzsborgnine3983 I guess we have different priorities. I can't say much about Ukraine and Russia, but I do know what the USA did when the Russians put missiles on Cuba...

[@chriswilliams5423]

What will happen when the humanoid bots are deployed removing many jobs and tax revenues.

[@andresgarciacastro1783]

Housing. If you fix housing most people's life's are fine. Just fix housing.

[@MyAirMyles]

How? They are importing more people than that can build houses for so none left for citizens.

[@andresgarciacastro1783]

@@MyAirMyles We could build soo many more houses. Hasn't productivity grown? Don't we have better technology? Building should be cheaper and faster than many years ago, but we haven't invested in it because we left it to the market, and the market wants high prices.

[@bombadierbeetle8674]

So partisan it is hard to take any of it seriously

[@brookrichardson1373]

I think he is wrong on UBI because I believe it could be paid for by the removal of other forms of benefit, as well as the organisations that govern them. However any action from government would be welcome.

[@cantbendknee]

Commenting for the algo.

[@carolinesaunders8603]

If councils sell the land they STILL DONT HAVE ANY ASSETS AND THE RICHEST IN SOCIETY GET RICHER!!!!!!!!! The very situation we are in at this moment in time!!!!!

[@yellowvurt]

Frightening insights, but this guy is the dogs ( ) ( )

[@lawsonium]

My comments being deleted now. That says a lot.

[@MakingMoneyPodcast]

We don't delete comments. KZbin auto removes sometimes for weird reasons.

[@lawsonium]

@@MakingMoneyPodcast I didn't say it was you...

[@globalroamer1900]

CensorTube

[@surajit.biswas.]

I'm not liking the examples that he took to describe demagogy. The way he generalized the Indian situation as a religious divide without looking at the history of massacres due to partition and Islamic invasion before that. Such shortsightedness hurts the topic of discussion. All he is worried about is the British people and how there is no ally to save them.

[@chqshaitan1]

gotta say bud, this is more of a promotional/advert , which makes me sad, its not your normal down to earth northern aspect

[@lawsonium]

Guys, you risk losing audience if you allow politically motivated people to propagandise on your platform like this. Stick to financial discussions that help inform people to make better choices. This video is a soapbox for some highly questionable ideology.

[@daveuk1324]

Yeh - best keep the plebs uneducated so they are free to make dumb decisions...

[@Exciteddelirium1]

I must say, I absolutely agree with you.....

[@daveuk1324]

@@Exciteddelirium1 I don't agree!

[@therayli]

So boring

[@therayli]

More of a monologue than an interview

[@Mrtrc33]

Just shows you're intellect then🙄

[@therayli]

@@Mrtrc33 says the person who doesn’t know the difference between you’re or your 😏🙄

[@Mrtrc33]

@@therayli spelling police ,how big of you

[@therayli]

@@Mrtrc33 grammar my friend…

[@coopsnz1]

No it wont poltical class wealth will