Eyesign in racing pigeons explained

[@walterclark854]

Great video! Eyes are always the windows to the soul!!

[@RFRP]

Glad to hear you enjoyed it!!

[@marlonpayumo8238]

Thank you sir..My passion for Pigeon is just about to kick in..I used to race pigeon when I was a kid and was totally different.40 years ago I was considered to be the best amongst my fellow racers(on our own standards)moved to America and totally lost touched about pigeons but because of your videos I am more passionate than ever.I am contemplating to acquire and start getting into birds.I live here in San Francisco California but I don’t know anyone that races here.God bless you sir and more videos Please.

[@RFRP]

Marlon! So great to hear your story-thank you!! Look on the AU website, pigeon.org. There is a link Find a Club. You enter in your contact info and they’ll get back to you with the club and contacts nearest to you. That might be a good way to get back into it. Hopefully you can find some good local mentors who can help you get started again. Keep me posted! And I’m happy my videos are helping!! 😁

[@Siegfriedklughammer1]

Wonderful video. I am in Africa, Burkina Faso, Ouagadougou. I do have 28 pigeons. Have no ideas what I am racing... I had started. And learning while racing pigeons for business

[@RFRP]

That is awesome!! Keep me posted on how you do. Thanks for commenting and it’s nice to meet you! 🇧🇫

[@pirrgang]

Fun video. I am not a eye sign expert and hadn’t researched it much but a good eye on a bird does get my attention.

[@RFRP]

Thanks, Paul!! Yeah, I like to look at them

[@Ruckercouplings]

Great video on Eyesign!! Thank you for taking the time to explain in detail.

[@RFRP]

Thank you!! Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the comment!

[@khurramwahab9345]

Very informative video james. I am a beginer in racing pigeon hooby. What i found after watching your video All winning birds have not round shape pupil but oval. black color is expending to thier adaptive circle.

[@RFRP]

Thanks!! Appreciate that! Thanks for sharing your insight on the pupil too!

[@jeanicatibe6839]

Great video sir. ..good job🥰 Im from the phillipines very impormative Again god job👏👏👏

[@RFRP]

Thanks so much! 🇵🇭❤️🇵🇭

[@heikolange1395]

Dear Robertson Family. I am a freelance documentary filmmaker from Germany and I am producing a documentary about birds in art history. One episode is about pigeons and I would kindly ask if I can use the first 8 sec. of your clip " Eyesign in racing pigeons explained" for my documentary ? Its a fantastic shot of a pigeons eye. Thanks for getting back. Have a great day Heiko

[@RFRP]

I am happy to grant use of that segment for your documentary. I only ask that when your film is complete to please send me the link at [e-mail]. Is there anything you need from my end?

[@Jas-yi8pv]

Well, im a bit late to comment on this one, but i will anyway. Let me start off by saying great video, very informative and interesting. In my experience, birds no 1, 2, and 9 looked really good and overall i see quality in your birds. Another thing i was told to look for is an egg-shaped pupil as an indicator for quality and performance and you can see that in the winning fancier's birds, although the best racer/breeder i ever owned had a round, medium sized pupil. Of course, you have to consider all the other characteristics of the bird and its will to get home the most important factor of all.

[@RFRP]

Thanks for the thoughtful comment! These are good insights indeed, but in the end you are right: what matters most is the bird’s performance. Thanks

[@Jas-yi8pv]

@@RFRP James, you said you liked data to support the conclusions, do you work in a field of science?

[@RFRP]

@@Jas-yi8pv Yes indeed. I’m an entomologist. I run a DNA lab at the USDA

[@Jas-yi8pv]

@@RFRP That sounds really interesting. What kind of education/training would one need to get an entry level position in your lab. I have a background in biology.

[@RFRP]

@@Jas-yi8pv To be competitive one would need at least a BS degree is a biological field. We also have programs for undergraduates to become paid interns. If you are interested I’d be happy to pass on any future opportunities. Shoot me an email at [e-mail]

[@beniaminpotop3656]

Very helpful video! Thank you very much 😊 greetings from Romania

[@RFRP]

Thank you! ❤️🇷🇴

[@amirhameed9714]

hello robertson i acknowledge your efforts on this video, its probably the best video on youtube about the eye at least now i know what a pigeon eye is , however i want to know more about the correlation the term you talked about the texture and speed lines can you please make a chart or draw them with pencil on a paper consider me a 6 year old kid and explain please i want to know more about it what is the theory about it what is a racer sign and what is a breeder line , long distance short distance i want to know everything about it, please make a video about correlation only i will watch it even if its a 12 hr lecture, please i will be looking forward to it

[@RFRP]

That is very thoughtful of you! I appreciate your encouragement. As I stated in the video, I really don’t believe in the validity of speed lines and distance lines and many of those finer details to eye sign. I do like to look at the eyes and note the relative size of the circles or correlation and adaptation and how well the iris constricts but that really is about the limit of what I personally like to look for.

[@MaydisLoft]

Hey James, thanks for putting this together. Yes, I believe there is something there. I kind of like to look at the pupil and the circle of correlation to see what distance they'rebetter for. Some have a coc that is stringer than others. I ike to see the eye with a more normal eye formation but love the odd iris colors. But in the end I'm more in line of not caring a lot for the whole eye sign. Now here's a question for you. I still have not read enough about it. Many people say not to breed cock with hen of a similar eye sign. Any idea why? Great video, thank you.

[@RFRP]

Thank you my friend!! Sounds like we are on a similar page. As to your question, I have heard that too, and honesty can’t think of a reason for it. Genetically the only benefit I can see is it would offer more eye diversity in their offspring

[@gary-e4c]

back in the 90s i got interested in the eye sign. my brother was racing also and he got out and he had a young hen that won a 300 mile race that he wanted me to hold onto for him. she was a horrible bird she had a weak eye no build she was like a common pigeon and i used her as a foster parent until one day she hatched out a pair of babies and i put bands on them. they were the best birds i raced that year, i now only use the eyes to recognize a particular genes i'm looking for.

[@RFRP]

That's very interesting! Thanks for sharing!!

[@fabricdragon]

2 was my favorite and i would have pegged 4 as a distance bird and after that i lost track. would you tell us what the records of those birds was/is? or failing that, do they have a notable pedigree that contradicts or confirms any of the guesses?

[@RFRP]

Glad you liked it! Yes, it would be interesting to compare performance of specific birds with the eyes. Most of these birds in the vid haven’t been tested sufficiently for me to feel comfortable doing that just yet. Might make for a good follow up vid in a year

[@fritziejefferson]

When I started racing pigeon. I was too crazy about the eye of the pigeon, the body, the wing, the tail, the throat etc. This year I won my very first OLR entry@ Royal Cup Race. 1st drop 325 miles, 3rd to trap. Sister finished 350 miles @ California Classic, brother finished 360 miles Sandiego Holiday Cup. I compared the 3 siblings, they all have the same eye, same body, the only difference with the brother champion is that, he is well spirited, has character, and full of vitality. Also, I get to handle some of the champions, they all have different eyes. I would go for the performance and the race records of the ancestors.

[@RFRP]

Great insight my friend! And congrats on your OLR performances this year!! The basket is the true test. Interesting about the 3 siblings

[@easy7252]

Can you post a video of your champion bird and the siblings?

[@hogo-h6n]

Thanks for your efforts.. Can you named racing pigeons eyes depending to their colours.. Thanks again

[@RFRP]

@@hogo-h6n they are all variations of two colors: orange or white (pearl)

[@kapihittv4285]

Tanx sir i learn a lot of the eye sing of a good racing bird more power sir and god bless and keep safe always

[@RFRP]

Glad you found it interesting and helpful!

[@walterclark854]

#3 good racer, I'd raise a few to try. Not sure about the breeding?

[@RFRP]

This one's racing performance was respectable but not exceptional. Breeding remains to be tested fully.

[@7HillsLoft]

thank you for sharing good and Very interesting information. Keep them coming. My pick would be 6 for distance/ breeding capability, 11 for speed and small nice pupils with quick reactions to the light. love the mountain ranges in both pigeons the can produces a great looking eye be sure and outstanding 250 to 400, 500 miles middle distance racing. they could be paired up I would watch them offspring in 2022. Please keep us posted on you breeding and racing. Great video💯

[@RFRP]

Thanks for weighing in!! I really like both those birds!! 11 is new in my loft that did really well for Greek Connection in OLR! Thanks for the kind words!

[@lemongrab6173]

Fun fact: when I googled something about unusual pigeon eye I was looking for a breed called “Budapest pigeon” that was before I knew the name of the breed. It’s quite an unusual and alien like breed.

[@RFRP]

Oh wow, I will have to check it out!!

[@alsmith4807]

You're entitled to your thoughts & beliefs - I applaud you for it & sharing with viewers But decades ago when I flew competitively to be successful (that means Winning) pairing birds by performance is what sustained me Performance in the races - in the nest & consistency I was taught this by the greatest handler to ever fly pigeons - example: let's say you sent 10 birds to the race the thinking aka mindset when the first group lands the remaining birds should be no longer then 5 minutes behind - not saying performance is infallible but it's the one peramenter/measure that tells the truth consistently The Handler I mentioned before is & was the late great FRANK (FRANKY) KLEIN

[@RFRP]

I agree with you, Al. At the end of the video I state that performance is ultimately all that matters. Also, If you watch my video on "how to select quality racing pigeons" performance is relevant in 2 of my 3 criteria (individual record, pedigree). check it out, and thanks for weighing in!!

[@rkidlat]

Who was this handler that you speak highly of?

[@paulmydonick2141]

is there any scientific proof of the eye features ?

[@RFRP]

None at all

[@walterclark854]

#2 Violet eye, one I like. Good racer, I'd breed as well. Let me know how I'm doing?

[@RFRP]

Not sure this one is considered a violet eye, but I agree that this one has potential 🙂

[@majidmanion5476]

You are. Awesome your birds has a nice signs I do not no what is your record except one I like the most of them

[@RFRP]

You are too kind! Thank you 🙏🏼 ☺️

[@vauniyan4539]

Hi sir.. I have a lots of doubt in eye sign , In iris such birds have a lot of blood vessel ,the blood vessel means what sir and there is a lot of colours and the birds eyes are differ in ages or food and water , eyes are no longer in same condetion or in differ am I begginer in roller birds

[@RFRP]

Glad to hear you are starting in pigeons!! Rolling pigeons is the first breed I started with when I was a teenager. My advice is to ignore eyesign and focus on performance. There is no evidence that eyesign has any merit. I do not believe in it

[@vauniyan4539]

Ok sir, thanks for your reply

[@josesainz8255]

Excellent video!!

[@RFRP]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@josephlamrani6196]

Really great video James . Great eyes of all birds some stood out in various aspect , and some missed couple of things but over all it a hard task to breed based on eye signs , matter of coming up with youngsters with diff color signs and pupil color, I be seen birds with different eyes on each side as well , performance wise only the basket is the judge and how healthy is the bird, if the line is hardcore line such as Gerard coopman, can see merwie, ejr kump, Vanderbile venaestra and ad sharelekans then nest belive they will outlast anything in the race . Especially when the numbers of pigeons released over 40 k . Let the flying begun. Great black bird forgot her name , she s a stunner .

[@RFRP]

Thanks for weighing in! Only the basket should be the selection criterion-I agree 100%! There are two black birds in the video. The pied black hen is “Starlight”. The black cock is “Blackie”. Half siblings

[@beniaminpotop3656]

Many interesting and also useful things

[@RFRP]

Glad you found it helpful!!

[@Msfaizan1986]

19:14 I must say purple pigment are sign of good breeders

[@RFRP]

Interesting!! Thanks for sharing

[@aboutallarnooor]

What is the special of rich mountain level irish pleas tell mee?

[@RFRP]

Ha! Good question that I do not have the answer to. It may mean nothing. Performance is all that matters.

[@bibinmohan7214]

Thanks for sharing valuble infermation

[@RFRP]

My pleasure!! Thanks for following!

[@aboutallarnooor]

Am so happy to put this video

[@RFRP]

Thanks for the positive feedback! Really glad you liked it!

[@aboutallarnooor]

I ask question to you bro one of my pigeon didn't have circle of correlation and adoption circles but rich irish tell me that is good bird or not?

[@JalalKhan-iz7up]

How to find circle of co relation ring plz tell me🙏

[@RFRP]

Look at the illustration in the video. The circle of correlation is fairly easy to recognize

[@Androcredo]

Thanks idol for explain the eyesign of pegion

[@RFRP]

🙏🏼❤️

[@xiongguysloft9560]

So many top birds, thanks for showing us 👍👍

[@RFRP]

Thanks my friend!

[@gibsongayda8272]

Pairing eye #9 and #11 would be great!

[@RFRP]

Great suggestion!! Thanks!

[@majidmanion5476]

That black bird looks so good

[@RFRP]

Thank you!! I think he is a beauty too 😊

[@khilmikhilmi8557]

Thanks James. Great skills. Genuis idea, attaching an eye loop to the phone camera. Brilliant 👏. Here is a project for you James and I think you with your scientific mind can solve this once and for all. Compare the eyes of different breeds of pigeons for example flying machines with no homing instincts like tiplers they have the smallest pupils going, fan tail that are happy using their legs only fly when they have to and so many other fancy breeds and see if there's any correlation between Shap, form, colour...etc. it is a big ask as this could be a thesis for masters degree a PhD. If anyone can do it I think you can. Kind regards. K. From Dublin ireland 🇮🇪

[@RFRP]

Ha! I appreciate your confidence in me!! That would be a fascinating project indeed! I would be happy to give it a go, but it will take some time. I don't keep any fancy pigeons so my first step will be locating local fanciers with diverse breeds. keep in touch. If you don't see anything in the next few months pls remind me! Best wishes!!

[@NandeeshChilgod]

​@@RFRPhey James, I was watching this video again and saw your comment... any update on thesis 😅

[@NandeeshChilgod]

Or maybe you can do a follow up video with these birds race results or even there offsprings result.

[@RFRP]

@@NandeeshChilgod thanks for following up with me on this!! I can definitely do a video on the eyes of my birds that have proven themselves as breeders or racers ✅

[@RFRP]

@@NandeeshChilgod ✅

[@sumodvs17]

❤❤very informative👏

[@RFRP]

Thanks my friend!!

[@stickygrass9712]

support from philippines sir 🙏

[@RFRP]

🇵🇭❤️🇵🇭❤️

[@walterclark854]

#12 very nice eye. I like the 5th ring, outer, the best. Race it to prove than possible stock

[@RFRP]

Untested bird that I no longer own.

[@ArtisticlyAlexis]

The only thing I see is a video looking at gorgeous eyes, all so unique! They remind me of Nebulas and distant planets. What is the origin of eye sign theory? It sounds like something that would come from Asian or Chinese culture, coming from someone who used to live in Taiwan. I could easily see this as something they'd believe in, especially w/ how the wealthy see things there. It's all about the secrets to success beiing based on a knowable criteria that the successful have figured out, & if only you could discover it, you'd be rich too! They also love adding in a little mysticism mixed in for good luck!)

[@RFRP]

They are beautiful indeed, and comparing them to galaxies and nebulae is perfect 😊 I’m actually not certain about the origin of the eye sign hypothesis but would love to know as well. Your thoughts on it’s possible origin definitely have merit and interesting. Thanks for sharing

[@Pravinkumar-gc9cg]

Can some one explain me about distance line and short line

[@RFRP]

According to eyesign people when there are lines that span the width of the circle of correlation those are speed lines and are considered indicative of a speed bird. Similarly lines that run along the length of circle of correlation are referred to as distance lines and are supposedly indicative of distance ability. Hope that is clear

[@walterclark854]

#7 bull eyes are hard for me. It looks like a decent racer. If you like it and it's performing, raise a few!

[@RFRP]

has a strong circle of adaptation. Sadly, this bird escaped and I was not able to breed from her.

[@walterclark854]

#4 looks like a good breeder and racer. I'd probably train and race this one and asap raise young ones on a great male to try.

[@RFRP]

This one was not raced but I ended up giving her to a new youth fancier. Hope she does well for him.

[@MyOsirius]

Bro , from watching the pictures of the ideal pigeon eye closely, I would rate your bird at a 6.

[@RFRP]

@@MyOsirius 👍🏼

[@davidmarson209]

I'd pair 6 and 4 together for good sprint middle distance birds. I'm not a fan of the bull eye in the pied and white birds. Number 5 was my least favourite eye sign

[@RFRP]

Thanks for weighing in David!! I appreciate that! I really like 6. Number 5 has actually been a good breeder for me 🤷🏼

[@davidmarson209]

@@RFRP was the bird paired to on this video?

[@RFRP]

Good question. No it isn’t. And I don’t remember what his eye is like-will have to check that.

[@davidmarson209]

@Robertson Family Racing Pigeons I personally would hazard a really strong eye if the pair have bred winners. It's not all about eye sign it's also the fancier and condition and motivation. I am a firm believer in eye sign however it's only part of the success of racing.

[@sameertashan4724]

I need the best pair of pigeons please how much they are?

[@RFRP]

You can pay anywhere from $1000 to 100,000 for the very best racing pigeons globally. 😳 They vacancy be prohibitively expensive. More typical is a few thousand dollars for outstanding bloodlines. Where are you located?

[@clintonjeniker7917]

Good 👍

[@RFRP]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@ceengel3597]

Eyes are generally yellow or pearl(white) background not orange :) the Iris can be orange to red depending on how many blood vessels are present

[@RFRP]

Thanks for sharing your insight!

[@walterclark854]

No coincidence in the eyes of great pigeons. They'll have great eyes as well as everything else!!

[@RFRP]

It does seem that the great pigeons also have great eyes. Thanks for your insight

[@danscamp1279]

#11 good for long distance racing

[@RFRP]

He was a good racer. Bred by Greek Connection. I’m breeding out of him this year.

[@russellkeys3596]

When I look at a birds eye, I guess I'm looking for health and that nothing odd is going on, like a pupil off from the center of the eye, two eyes of different color. And I like to see lots of color with the idea being the eye should be able to handle light better if it is rich in color rather than washed out. But, as you showed, this really works better with a bird with some age to even have color as a baby doesn't start out with full colored eyes and so they change over time. The bird that has the yellow eye I would fault, but only very small. All other things considered, to me the basket is the ultimate judge. These are meant to be performance birds! But if we are honest we want pretty birds too! And so yes, it's not surprising to me the champions have good eye sign because we do select for it. As in if you have several birds with excellent racing ability, and still choose from them based on eye sign who to breed, than no surprise you get more good racers that whoop! Good eye sign! But to be honest I think it's a bunch of crap and just make my bird choices based on other things than just the eye. Performance first! Than after that I'm honest, I keep back the good performing PLUS good body conformation. I had six youngsters out of 18 I started with this summer left. But only one will make it to the breeding loft this next year. And only just barely! Most of the rest had various conformation issues I didn't want to continue with or colors I didn't like. Anyhow, great video! thanks for doing this. I knew some of the stuff but you helped clarify the rest. Thank you. But yes I'm biased that I don't buy into the whole eye sign theory but I don't have proof it doesn't work either. As I don't have a racing club in North Dakota. I just fly for fun and their only goal for me is to be home the next day when I get to the loft after a toss. Anyway, thanks again! good work!

[@RFRP]

I totally agree. Performance is obviously number one criterion and the basket is the only meaningful selection. Your insight on great birds that are selected for eyesign and performance thereby preserving good eyes in those lines is a great observation. Thanks for sharing and keep in touch!!

[@MiguelA.BerbelMartinez]

Thank you very much for this video. I am going to give my modest opinion according to my knowledge. Beware number 1. Due to the saw teeth on the front, perhaps you should try it in breeding. Although I think his children would not perform in races, perhaps his grandchildren. number two. for racing. number 3. okay quick in background number 6. round pupil with contractions, correlation well marked like a ring on the finger, slightly blurred iris but with mountains and valleys. number 7. sprinter, I think. number 8. fast. number 9. very good, it has almost everything. number 10. pupil and total set okay, okay, top top. number 11. only for racing. number 12. remains to be developed. eye number 4. Despite the lack of discoloration in the iris, it is very powerful for flight or racing. and I would breed with him. because you can see a lot of power or inner energy. VanBerbel. Almeria/Spain. All the best.

[@RFRP]

Thank you very much for your thoughtful insights! Really appreciate that! ☺️

[@danscamp1279]

#12 shows speed and distance that was my favorite

[@RFRP]

Oh nice! Yeah, I really like that one too 😊

[@arihelmy_alfatih24]

Great video,, but I think you must come to Indonesia,, and see the pigeon culture of Indonesia (MERPATI KOLONG) ,, and I hope you research,, and so sorry my English not good ☺️🙏👍👍👍👍👍

[@RFRP]

Oh thank you!! Your English is great! I have always wanted to go to Indonesia. I study insects and Indonesian insects are amazing. Now that I know about merpati kolong from you, I want to go even more!!

[@daveunciano7439]

I would love to have 1 of your yb❤️ they are so gorgeous☺️

[@RFRP]

Oh thank you!!

[@tastyfishsauce4410]

The only thing that concerns me about the pigeon eye is if they could see well. In my personal opinion, judge the pigeon by its performance and the performance of its lineage. Until somebody can consistently explain the correlation of the eyesign to the pigeons ability to home or breed champions, I think I'll stick to race results. Having said that, it doesn't hurt to have pigeons with good looking eyes in my loft, as opposed to crossed eyed or wondering eyed ones, lol.

[@RFRP]

This is exactly how I feel about it.

[@pietervandenoever9832]

love the eye of bird number 7.

[@RFRP]

I do too! That is a 2021 hen and I’ve had my eye on her from out of the nest! Thanks for the comment!!

[@princeaabidi8276]

Thanks

[@RFRP]

@@princeaabidi8276 ☺️☺️☺️

[@kerbyjackson88]

This is a very well done video. Personally, I think eyesign theory is akin to what we Gypsies call "bujo", which is best explained as someone claiming to have supernatural powers and who then utilizes them to deceive someone for gain. Of course, chances are, the only "power" that person possesses is the ability to convince their target that they possess such a power. In otherwords, it is only so much convincing sounding bullshit intended to razzle-dazzle the unsuspecting into thinking the bujo artist has some special insight that others do not possess. Sounds a lot like so called "pigeon graders", doesn't it? It's worth mentioning that in Rollers, there is a small degree of belief in eyesign that has been borrowed from the Racing sport. As a case in point, there is a belief that a pearl eyed bird possesses "more fly than roll" and that the whiter the eye, the more fly there is and the less tendency there is to roll. Some also believe that a well defined circle of correlation indicates higher velocity during the roll. (How it can equate to one thing in one breed and something else entirely different in another breed seems to be quite beyond the people who believe in it). My only personal observation after 40 plus years around Rollers were that most rolldowns or other pigeons with stability issues tend to have very little hippus reflex when a bright light is shown in their eye. In other words, the pupil remains large instead of constricting rapidly down to a small size. This however, is not eye sign bujo, but a result of the fact that the rolling mechanism in pigeons is a result of what could best be described as a nervous system disorder that has been cultivated and steered by breeders into a specific direction. It's worth adding that some nervous system disorders in humans also result in irregular pupil dilation.

[@RFRP]

Thanks Kerby! WOW! I did not know that the rolling pigeon community has adapted its own eye sign “theory”. Yeah, the fact that other breed possess the very traits being hailed as exceptional in racing pigeons is telling. Thanks for sharing this interesting added insight

[@kerbyjackson88]

@RFRP You ought to read some of the Roller theory on plumage color or what is dubbed "hard color vs. soft color". It's right up there with eyesign. The general belief is that Dark Checks, Blue Bars and other self colors are "hard" and by extension possess more velocity, but more resistance to the roll (therefore more fly), while Recessive Reds and splashed birds possess soft character and therefore less resistance to the roll. But ... if you mate them together, like bujo magic, you somehow get the middle character. Even though they might be Dark Checks or Blue Bars! It's right up there with eye sign and white toenails.

[@RFRP]

@@kerbyjackson88 oh boy! 🙄

[@ubaidnizar7725]

Thank you

[@RFRP]

Glad you liked it!!!

[@fahimrachingpigeons2600]

So Beautiful Raching pigeons

[@RFRP]

Thank you 😁😁😁

[@m.a.alsadi4433]

Your birds have a good response signal, but my point of view is that the spirit of the bird is what distinguishes it from others. Do its genes carry perseverance and a love of belonging to the place where it grew up? Here you discover that some pigeons have a strong innate intelligence that makes them able to adapt to the conditions of the race to return and return to their place and homeland.

[@walterclark854]

#6 great racer, should breed well

[@RFRP]

Untested bird, but gorgeous eye!

[@Thitnn]

i love pigeon

[@Thitnn]

cooh cooh

[@RFRP]

@@Thitnn Me too!! ☺️

[@RFRP]

@@Thitnn YEESSS!

[@ayanmondal457]

Distance line and speed line describ sir

[@RFRP]

@@ayanmondal457 look at the illustration above n the video. Distance lines run along the length of the circle of correlation. Speed lines transect the circle of correlation.

[@M4GEO]

Some old fanciers who analyze eye traits might say number 5 is a super breeder. To me, as an OLR contender, I wanna see OLR winners and top performers in the pedigree and nothing else. I have double inbred ORNAT directly purchased from AFL, grandchildren of ORNAT from AFL, grandchildren of Best Kittel, grandchildren of Wolverine, grandchildren of Sharky. They all have different eye traits. I do however like the way pearl eyes look.

[@RFRP]

Thanks for the comment! I agree 100%. Performance trumps all else. I don't place emphasis on eyesign at all. Like you, I look for performance in the pedigree and individual bird. I do place emphasis on physical conformation too. Sounds like your stock loft is packed with heavy-hitters! Nice!! Good luck going forward and keep in touch!

[@M4GEO]

@@RFRP absolutely. Physically proportioned, silky feathers, strong muscles, etc. thank you for wishing me good luck. I need it as I have a team competing in VF 2022. A fan of your channel.

[@RFRP]

Wow! Good luck in the VF!!

[@walterclark854]

#9 I would train and race to prove than stock for breeding

[@RFRP]

This one flew well as a young bird. He has done respectable in the breeding loft as well.

[@double-dbrosloft4295]

Awesome!

[@RFRP]

Thank you!

[@rachidbenhaourech9123]

Top for my number 5 I take it 😍🤩

[@RFRP]

The parents of 5 are 1st place winners and breeders of 1st place winners at the Fed level vs thousands of birds. You picked a good one 😁

[@rachidbenhaourech9123]

@@RFRP ❤️

[@walterclark854]

Black Splash, racing and breeding

[@RFRP]

Thanks for sharing your insight

[@danscamp1279]

#9 racing and long distance also good for breeding

[@RFRP]

Interesting

[@danscamp1279]

#8 good for racing

[@RFRP]

Nice!

[@stephenmurphy1111]

No 9 for me

[@RFRP]

@@stephenmurphy1111 that is the cock I call Kronos. He is one of 3 birds I kept when I relocated from Arizona to Maryland

[@nailbendert4569]

Show their racing history and I will pick the best eye lol

[@RFRP]

Haha! YES, that is essentially how I feel too! But I still like to look at the eyes 👀

[@Good2go6894]

James, here's a good KZbin video explaining eye sign. ( Racing pigeon eye sign part 2 ) I hope this helps in your search for knowledge.

[@walterclark854]

#10 race to prove than stock to breed

[@RFRP]

This bird is a 300 mile race winner. So far only a few of her offspring have been tested and honestly nothing noteworthy; one or two good performances only.

[@JayshallMar]

I choose bird number 6/9/10 very beautiful and i think a good breeder.

[@RFRP]

Those are great picks!! Very beautiful eyes indeed with a lot of character. Thanks for the comment!

[@sweeklins7113]

Hi guys how do you differentiate Breeder eyes, racer eyes and Breeder/racer eye ..

[@klaasvandecasserie8787]

I like nr.9

[@RFRP]

Thanks for the comment! 9 is the eye of Kronos, one of my favorite cocks!! Great pick!

[@premierleague3072]

Winners and breeders of multiple winners all have good eyes . When i handle a pigeon through habit i always look at the eye . I do not believe in eyesign theory to select winners or breeders of winners .

[@RFRP]

Sounds like you and I are on the same page! I too look at the eye when I handle birds but don’t believe in eyesign

[@zdribac700]

8 & 9 breeder best one rest racer 🎉

[@RFRP]

@@zdribac700 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@walterclark854]

#11 race to prove than breed a few!

[@RFRP]

This bird was an exceptional racer as a Young bird. His young will be tested in 2024 OLRs

[@stickygrass9712]

wish i have racing pigeons 😭

[@RFRP]

I wish you did too! 😢 Hope you get some in the future!!

[@walterclark854]

#8 racer

[@RFRP]

A racing eye is my first impression. But this bird bred a money winner in the Flamingo OLR 2023.

[@tommak1822]

I love looking at eyes, women too....but spend your time locating pigeons with pedigrees full of winners and Champion pigeons( regardless of their eyes)....learn what top health and condition look like...learn how to feed and exercise....then when you are among the best fanciers in your club...start looking more at eyes and enjoy them then....Even the experts make more bad selections than good ones..

[@RFRP]

Solid advice right there, Tom! Thanks for taking the time to share!!

[@zdnekpicha7956]

OK👍

[@RFRP]

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@ausfuhrpramienjagar]

My take has always been that.. The eye sign theory is all a bunch of bunk!.. It's "scientifically" impossible to determine if a bird will hypothetically be a great or good producing parent of great or good flying offspring or if that particular bird will be a good or great flyer him/herself.. The eyes, as with all animals, including racing pigeons are only used for vision nothing more. With that said, a pigeon will always be a better bird if they eyes sparkle and show that it's in good health.. That's the only thing I look for in a birds eyes..

[@RFRP]

Great comment! Yes, like I said in the video, there is no concrete data supporting eyesign. None. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@ausfuhrpramienjagar]

@@RFRP ... YW. Besides being an old flyer myself, my major in college was Wildlife Science so I've studied the scientific side of this bunk claim in one form or another during my ornithological studies. With that said, as I mentioned before.. A bright, sparkling and responsive eye are all that is required. It shows good health in the bird the same as it does in us humans. There is no physical attribute in the eyeball that will tell a person that a bird will fly like Secretariat or breed winning offspring more often than others.. That's totally impossible. And, if a person believes the eye sign theory, (notice how it's called a theory) I have some oceanfront property in Arizona that I'll sale them real cheap.

[@RFRP]

@@ausfuhrpramienjagar Nicely said!! I almost pursued a degree in ornithology. Yep, not only do different pigeon breeds have the traits that eyesign proponents emphasize, but other bird species also have them. It’s just basic eye anatomy. 😆

[@ausfuhrpramienjagar]

@@RFRP .. Yup, you're right.. There's nothing special about it.. It was a very good video though. You put it together very well.

[@badeamarius6542]

5,10,11

[@RFRP]

Thanks! I like those ones as well!

[@geoffhackett6509]

When i was much younger i was real interested in eye sign and read all i could about it but 50+ yrs on find it is only a fraud to think that u can judge a pigeons worth by eye sign alone and the colour is just that nothing special have had the best and yet never bred anything to back it up better as a trait to look for in a good performing family.

[@RFRP]

I agree with you Geoff. And that other pigeon breeds exhibit the same eyesign traits is also illuminating.

[@thegeordiefellwalker8878]

cant believe a pigeon fancier can be sucked in to believing in eyesign.i could put 10 champion breeders or racers in front of you & they would have different colour eyes.just like human beings.i was a successful fancier from the age of 16.& the basket was the judge before pedigree,eyesign,wing etc 👍

[@pod3531]

i would pair 8 to 10 thats for me

[@RFRP]

Thanks for weighing in, Chris! Appreciate it!!

[@arthurkellyltd]

You are not blending your pigeons together right the eyes are weak no 10 is your strongest your bone structure will tell you if long-distance or short distance eye will tell you capabilites look for telescopic eye they are the winners thank art

[@RFRP]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and insight, Art!

[@walterclark854]

#5 race, race, race, try a few young ones to see

[@RFRP]

This bird has not raced but has bred great breeders and racers. I actually really like the eye.

[@sanjibsaha1681]

Good topics Sir. Contact please

[@RFRP]

Thank you! You can message me on Instagram @erotylid or on Facebook.

[@jamesholbrook7785]

Bird 7&8 look pretty. That’s as far as my knowledge . LOL

[@RFRP]

That’s really why I like to look at them-they are pretty!! Everything else with the eye is all speculative!!

[@NelsonNelsonNelson44]

my opinion are only the basket can tell you everything in one pigeon

[@RFRP]

Absolutely agree! And/or the offspring of such a bird; some birds are phenomenal breeders yet didn't perform very well themselves. Individual record as a racer or breeder is what it comes down to. Thanks for your thoughts!

[@maironisilva5432]

🔝🕊️🔝🕊️🇧🇷😎✌️

[@RFRP]

Thank you as always!!

[@familyloftguzmangonzalez3366]

9y 10

[@RFRP]

Those are nice ones!! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@jerminedombrigues7714]

🤗🙋🇵🇭❤️👍🕊️

[@RFRP]

🙏🏼🇵🇭

[@ojstroberi3601]

Guru 😂

[@RFRP]

@@ojstroberi3601 ☺️

[@MyOsirius]

Ok your 2nd bird an 8 .

[@RFRP]

@@MyOsirius 👍🏼